April 9, 2025 • 17 mins
Cost of living has hit many families around the country hard – but what about the singles out there?
From booking holidays to having a roof over your head, there’s often an additional cost of doing life alone.
Research shows that, for people aged 25 to 49, those who are single spend 14% more than their coupled counterparts.
It has been dubbed the ‘singles tax’, and while it is gaining more traction in the mainstream, lowering costs for the partnerless is not an easy task.
Simplicity chief economist Shamubeel Equab has crunched the numbers on this, and he joins us today on The Front Page.
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You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer: Richard Martin
Producer: Ethan Sills
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Yoda.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Cost of
living has hit many families around the country hard. But
what about the singles out there? From booking holidays to
having a roof over your head, there's often an additional
(00:26):
cost of doing life alone. Research shows that for people
aged twenty five to forty nine, those who are singles
spend fourteen percent more than their coupled counterparts. It's been
dubbed the singles tax. And while it's gaining more traction
in the mainstream, lowering costs for the partner lists is
not an easy task, simplicity. Chief economist Chamabel Yakub has
(00:51):
crunched the numbers on this and he joins us now
on the front page. Shamma Belle, it's no surprise that
doing life alone is more expensive, but can you tell
me exactly how much more it costs to be single?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
So for a young person, on average, it costs about
seventy dollars more to be single than a coupled up.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Here, that's a week, oh my god. And so what
does the bulk of a single person's income go towards.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well, the biggest difference is actually on rent and utility.
So if you think about it, when you're coupling up,
you might still have a one two bedroom house, but
you're sharing it across two people. But for a single person,
you still need that one house and you still need
the same amount of electricity and things like that. So
it's really around housing and those utilities that we use
in the home that affects younger people and single people more.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And some might say, well, only one mouth to feed,
but getting one steak versus a pack of two or
four is far more expensive. Hey, and I love the
thought of cost go, but me as a single person,
I'm never going to get through a twenty five kilogram
bag of rice, am I.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Man, it's a lot of rise, right, So you're absolutely right.
There's no economies of scale, so you know, that's a
very economistic term. But essentially, when you've got more people
you can afford to buy those bigger bug items sometimes
they're cheaper, so you really do have to shop more carefully.
But we don't actually see a massive difference in the
cost of food, so on a per person basis, you know,
we don't spend a lot more depending on age, But
(02:20):
we tend to see a bit of difference when it
comes to older people in particular, because older people who
are living alone tend to have a lot less income,
so they're just poorer unfortunately, and as a result, they
have to spend less because they can't afford it.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I saw a survey in the US a few years
ago found an unmarried person could pay as much as
a million dollars more in their lifetime than their married friends.
Would you agree with that.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Look, it's a couple of things, right. The first is
around the income that's possible. So when you've got two
of you together working towards something, it can mean that
you have more income available. So first you maximize your income.
And the second is around the kinds of things that
you're able to do. You're able to save more money
because you've got double income quite often and the housing
(03:04):
costs are not so high, so there's more leftover at
the end of the week. And then there's those little
things like we talked about, the you know, giant packs
of rice or meat or whatever, where you can get
those additional incremental savings regularly. So there is a cost
of being single. But I think we shouldn't think about
only the costs. There are also some benefits to being single.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
What are those?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Well, sometimes you might just want a little bit of
peace and quiet to be yourself, right and not everybody.
For example, if you're not in a committed relationship, you
may not want have to have flatmates, right. And so
I remember when I lived in Melbourne, I chose to
live alone, even there was more expensive, because you know,
I had a busy job, I was seeing a lot
of people through the day and coming home, I wanted
(03:42):
to have a sanctuary that was my own. So there
are things like that that gives you the sense of independence,
quiet solitude that can be quite powerful for a lot
of people. But there's a cost to it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, I have seen surveys and I can't remember which
ones exactly, but single people, especially later in life, don't
they have better mental health?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Typically we tend to find coupled up older people have
better mental health. So people on their own do tend
to suffer a little bit more from loneliness, but not
always right. It's like anything, you know, if you're cooped
up with somebody who's not very nice to you, then
it's terrible, but you know this is being single in
that instance is better. But generally speaking, companionship whether through
(04:21):
a partnership or with friends and family that's close to you,
even if it's not in the same home, can make
a big difference. And loneliness, of course, is one of
the biggest challenges that's facing older people in New Zealand today,
but increasingly also younger people who are feeling more isolated
from the society.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
So okay, here's the thing. I went to read it
because Reddit has all the answers right, and they said,
what are some ways to save money for single And
they said, get a library card because a library is
free and libraries have free activities to potentially meet somebody
an educated person there too, and then maybe you solve
your singles.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
From absolutely and keep in mind to today couples will
be spending wasting hundreds of dollars on each other, so
there is wat this is your day to save more.
Potentially treat yourself though if you want to. If you're not,
you know, hanging out with a significant other, treat yourself
a little bit, because we know that you needed to
make more to be comfortable now, so you know, do
(05:12):
that wisely. Valentine's Day.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So what about in retirement do single people have less
than couples when it comes to hanging out? The work
boots a.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Little bit, so it is quite expensive for very old people.
Quite often it's because you're not able to share a load.
So again it's really housing costs and the cost of
care that really pushes things up. So unfortunately, there is
this kind of this penalty of being single where you
just don't have the economies of scale when it comes
to housing and utilities, and so there's there's a little
(05:46):
bit of a bit of a challenge there for older people.
And of course, as you know, we have a lot
more single older people as your partner passes away before
the other one. And of course we're also seeing those
at the margin more marriages breaking up later on in life.
So there's lots of reasons why we're seeing lots more
people living alone in older ages.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And there are so many too. For one deals that
I see there are cheaper holiday packages, single rooms cost
more than doubles. Car insurance companies give discounts for more
than one vehicle, and Uber eights always have deals buy
one curry and get another free, that kind of thing.
It seems like there's no winning for singles out there.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I reckon it's coming though. So while it is still
the case that we have larger families still being the
dominant part of our societies, over the course of the
coming decade, we're going to see the fastest growing groups
being singles in couples, and so as we see the
number of people living alone increased massively, I think the
marketers are going to tip into that group of people
(06:43):
as long as they're buying enough stuff. So I think
you're right. Right now, we're not seeing marketers really looking
into this massive market of single people who are ready
to consume things. But we will see that change over
the coming decades because their demographic tie. It is turning already,
and we will see it pick up pace quite considerably.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
And I es, buying your own home seems impossible for
a single person unless you're out there having no fue
and eating plane rice and tuna for breakfast and lunch
and dinner. How can a single person do it alone?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Look, it is hard. It's hard for everybody, and it's
even harder for singles, mainly because it's harder for them
to save because compared to a couple who are on
comparable incomes. If there's two of them, they will have
just more money left over at the end of the week,
So that inability to save means it's harder to get
to the deposit. Once you get the deposit, it's a
lot of your income that might be going towards your home.
(07:37):
You know, some of the strategies that we're seeing coming
out at the moment is a lot of younger people
who are single are borrowing from their mom and dad
to be able to put in the deposit. They're taking
on housemates to be able to afford it. So they're
not ideal solutions, but those are the kinds of strategies
that people are dealing with given just how difficult it
(07:57):
is to get into the housing market.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I interviewed brookvie Velden last year about workplace law changes,
including paternity leave, and I do think I stunned her
into silence by suggesting a type of paternity leave for
single people. Given the changing landscape now, the universal idea
of that nuclear family from the fifties is kind of
just getting dimmer and dimmer. Should we start talking about
(08:21):
entitle tments for perhaps single and or childless workers as well.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So are you suggesting the government pays for people who
don't have children to have a form of.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Leave. I mean, it's a conversation starter.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Look, I don't think that's where this government is going.
It's an interesting concept. I think it's the first time
that's been raised with me.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
But do you think the government should be looking at
things to help ease the cost of living for single people?
What about the government bring in some kind of single
person home grount or something like that to help, because
we know millennials and Gen z they're partnering later in
life if at all.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, And I think it's it's that what's the ideal
state of households in New Zealand versus what the reality is.
I think in our mind it's still that nuclear family
with mom, dad, to kids and a dog, right, But
that's not really the reality of how New Zealand lives anymore.
So our policies, our settings, the things that we're trying
(09:32):
to do are very focused around that nuclear family unit,
except of course, what we've got is that you know,
younger people coupling up later, older people living singly or couplely.
There's all the kind of wider issues of housing affordability
and the cost of living, and our welfare system or
our system of supporting each other isn't really taking that
into account. Now. I don't know for sure if we
(09:53):
should have a specific policy for singles, but certainly I
think we should have welfare that gives everybody dignity in life.
And when people are not able to afford the basics
in life and have a reasonable standard of living, what
we see is that people become disconnected and discomfited, and
we see anger in society and in our politics. I'm
not saying it's caused by singles, but what I'm saying
(10:15):
is that when we feel like, because of where we
are in a life, somehow we can't participate in the
things that are normal for New Zealand, that's really troubling
and I feel like that is starting to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I know a lot of countries around the world are
offering more tax benefits to adults who have more children. Hungry,
for example, has launched a tax exemption for mothers who
have two or more children. Is it fair to say
that governments prefer us to have children grow the population
and all that.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Absolutely, we've seen around the world over many, many years,
many decades, efforts to try and encourage people to have
more children. None of them have worked, so it's just
a complete and utter waste of money. It might help
those families who have children, but actually none of these
policies have proven to increase fertility rates, so it's good
money after that. I think it'd be much better if
(11:13):
we just properly spend money on childcare and education and
things like that, and actually just made it easier for
women in particular to be able to take time off
for work if they needed to care for their families,
and for elderly people, because it's those kinds of issues
that are much bigger issues.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
It's not that we're coupling up later because we don't
want to have kids. It's because everything just costs so
damn much that we have to spend many years to
progrisinal careers before we can afford those things. So look,
absolutely we're seeing those policies around the world to try
and increase fertility rates, but I can tell you of
all the reviews that I have seen, they don't work.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And I guess back to life being hard when you're single.
If you're single and you lose your job, you lose
one hundred percent of your income, right, but if you're
living with a partner, you lose part of it. That
puts added pressure on single people high on top of
everything else, exactly, you.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Just have less room to maneuver. And I think that's
that wider thing of you know, I'm not again, I'm
not going to tell you to couple up with somebody
who's not suitable. But having a partner or friends or
family or wider network who can support you through those
hard times is really helpful. And we tend to kind
of focus on the immediate family for those kinds of things. Particularly,
I think in mainstream society when you look at Mari
(12:24):
and Pacifica in particular, or even in Asian communities, we
do see a lot more of community help in terms
of those informal networks being much stronger. But we have
lost a lot of that in New Zealand because you know,
the deal when we built the welfare state was that
you don't need to maintain those other things because the
government's got you. But of course we know that things
like welfare and other things, you know, there's a stand
down period you have to wait and if you're a
(12:46):
single person and there is no one to support you,
it becomes really troubling. And also the challenge, of course
is that, as you know, in a lot of the
poverty in New Zealand is amongst our working people. You know,
we have this big issue of the working poor in
New Zealand where if you're working in jobs that are
precarious in terms of hours and pay, then it is
really hard when something happens. So it's that inability to
(13:08):
make things work for yourself. So the solution to that,
of course is to have some precautionary savings if you can,
so always have a little bit of a thing on
the side, because life happens and you need to be
prepared and you can't always rely on somebody else.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And is it an issue of high rent prices as well?
I mean, how much of a single person's income only
goes towards rent?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, quite a big check. And that's where the big
difference is because if you think about it, if there
is a you know, we're comparing a couple of similar
you know, two similar incomes and one person living on
their own. They might be renting the same type of
let's one bedroom apartment and the cost will be the same,
but one is spread across two incomes and for the
single person they're sharing the whole load. And so on average,
(13:50):
the typical kind of rent in New Zealand versus the
typical wage in New Zealand is roughly around forty percent.
So if you're living alone, then you know you're spending
forty percent of the income minimum to kind of be
able to afford your home. Whereas it there's two of you,
you might be able to afford a better place, or
you might be able to spend a lot less of
your combined income on your house. And that is the
housing is the big one. There is just no economist
(14:11):
a scale when it comes to splitting a house.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Not to mention, couples who choose to get married get
a financial assist by the way of cashing gifts from
wedding guests. Right, is it time to make getting married
to yourself popular so I can set up a registry?
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Do you think you're still going to get the gifts
and things?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Well, that's what i'd hope for.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, well, I don't know. I think it's a very
novel idea and we should give it a go and
see what happens.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Well, there's also that, I guess stigma towards how single
people spend their money as well. Hey, I remember an
episode of Sex in the City where carries Minola and
Dolani's got stolen at her friend's house. When she asked
her mate to pay for them, she said it's irresponsible
for carry to spend hundreds of dollars on shoes and refuses.
But then she adds up all the money she spent
on her friend over the years, from baby showers to
(14:55):
bachelorette parties, and decided to make her foot the bill anyway,
don't forgives. I mean, if you.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Got married or had a child, she spend the same
on you.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And if I don't ever get married or have a baby,
what I get? Bob kiss think about it.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
If you are single after graduation, there isn't one occasion
where people celebrate you. We are birthdays.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
No, no, no, no, we all have birthdays. That's awash
I am talking about the single galp.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Hallmark doesn't make a congratulations you didn't marry the wrong
guide card?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And where's the flatwear for going on vacation alone? I
guess what I'm trying to get at is is it
fair that single people get chastised for the way that
they spend their money?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Absolutely not, absolutely not. I think how you choose you
choose to spend your money is up to you, and
I think there is a lot of judgment that happens regardless.
I just put out a survey on social cohesion in
New Zone and one of the things that really comes
through in that is the stereotyping that we do and
the projection that we do our own values and preferences
to other people. And that's really unfair. Right when we
(16:05):
are dealing with somebody else, we should be curious to
understand where they're coming from, rather than try to convert
them to our way of being. You know, the whole
beauty of this world is not because everybody's like you.
It's because people are different, and we like being around
people who are different to us. That's where the joy
comes from.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
So, Chama Belle, let's have a little brainstorm. What are
some discounts or I guess government interventions that would benefit
single childless people.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Do you think, well, I think it's really thinking about
whether or not the way that we think about what
kind of households need A lot of support right at
the moment, it's very geared to as families. I understand
why we should invest in children, that's fine, But the
fact that there is a high cost of being single
is currently reflected in things like the New Zealand super
but not in many of the other types of assistance
(16:50):
that's out there. So we should really try and think
very carefully about are we helping those people who really
need it, or are we helping people that we think
morally and values wise, that we think are more deserving
than of others. Now, there is no reason why single
people should be stigmatized just because that's not our model
view of a New Zealand family looks like, because that
(17:11):
is simply not true anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Thanks for joining us, Jammer Belle, thank you for having me.
That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
(17:33):
our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front
Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines,
Yoda.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Cost of
living has hit many families around the country hard. But
what about the singles out there? From booking holidays to
having a roof over your head, there's often an additional
(00:26):
cost of doing life alone. Research shows that for people
aged twenty five to forty nine, those who are singles
spend fourteen percent more than their coupled counterparts. It's been
dubbed the singles tax. And while it's gaining more traction
in the mainstream, lowering costs for the partner lists is
not an easy task, simplicity. Chief economist Chamabel Yakub has
(00:51):
crunched the numbers on this and he joins us now
on the front page. Shamma Belle, it's no surprise that
doing life alone is more expensive, but can you tell
me exactly how much more it costs to be single?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
So for a young person, on average, it costs about
seventy dollars more to be single than a coupled up.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Here, that's a week, oh my god. And so what
does the bulk of a single person's income go towards.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well, the biggest difference is actually on rent and utility.
So if you think about it, when you're coupling up,
you might still have a one two bedroom house, but
you're sharing it across two people. But for a single person,
you still need that one house and you still need
the same amount of electricity and things like that. So
it's really around housing and those utilities that we use
in the home that affects younger people and single people more.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And some might say, well, only one mouth to feed,
but getting one steak versus a pack of two or
four is far more expensive. Hey, and I love the
thought of cost go, but me as a single person,
I'm never going to get through a twenty five kilogram
bag of rice, am I.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Man, it's a lot of rise, right, So you're absolutely right.
There's no economies of scale, so you know, that's a
very economistic term. But essentially, when you've got more people
you can afford to buy those bigger bug items sometimes
they're cheaper, so you really do have to shop more carefully.
But we don't actually see a massive difference in the
cost of food, so on a per person basis, you know,
we don't spend a lot more depending on age, But
(02:20):
we tend to see a bit of difference when it
comes to older people in particular, because older people who
are living alone tend to have a lot less income,
so they're just poorer unfortunately, and as a result, they
have to spend less because they can't afford it.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I saw a survey in the US a few years
ago found an unmarried person could pay as much as
a million dollars more in their lifetime than their married friends.
Would you agree with that.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Look, it's a couple of things, right. The first is
around the income that's possible. So when you've got two
of you together working towards something, it can mean that
you have more income available. So first you maximize your income.
And the second is around the kinds of things that
you're able to do. You're able to save more money
because you've got double income quite often and the housing
(03:04):
costs are not so high, so there's more leftover at
the end of the week. And then there's those little
things like we talked about, the you know, giant packs
of rice or meat or whatever, where you can get
those additional incremental savings regularly. So there is a cost
of being single. But I think we shouldn't think about
only the costs. There are also some benefits to being single.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
What are those?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Well, sometimes you might just want a little bit of
peace and quiet to be yourself, right and not everybody.
For example, if you're not in a committed relationship, you
may not want have to have flatmates, right. And so
I remember when I lived in Melbourne, I chose to
live alone, even there was more expensive, because you know,
I had a busy job, I was seeing a lot
of people through the day and coming home, I wanted
(03:42):
to have a sanctuary that was my own. So there
are things like that that gives you the sense of independence,
quiet solitude that can be quite powerful for a lot
of people. But there's a cost to it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, I have seen surveys and I can't remember which
ones exactly, but single people, especially later in life, don't
they have better mental health?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Typically we tend to find coupled up older people have
better mental health. So people on their own do tend
to suffer a little bit more from loneliness, but not
always right. It's like anything, you know, if you're cooped
up with somebody who's not very nice to you, then
it's terrible, but you know this is being single in
that instance is better. But generally speaking, companionship whether through
(04:21):
a partnership or with friends and family that's close to you,
even if it's not in the same home, can make
a big difference. And loneliness, of course, is one of
the biggest challenges that's facing older people in New Zealand today,
but increasingly also younger people who are feeling more isolated
from the society.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
So okay, here's the thing. I went to read it
because Reddit has all the answers right, and they said,
what are some ways to save money for single And
they said, get a library card because a library is
free and libraries have free activities to potentially meet somebody
an educated person there too, and then maybe you solve
your singles.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
From absolutely and keep in mind to today couples will
be spending wasting hundreds of dollars on each other, so
there is wat this is your day to save more.
Potentially treat yourself though if you want to. If you're not,
you know, hanging out with a significant other, treat yourself
a little bit, because we know that you needed to
make more to be comfortable now, so you know, do
(05:12):
that wisely. Valentine's Day.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So what about in retirement do single people have less
than couples when it comes to hanging out? The work
boots a.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Little bit, so it is quite expensive for very old people.
Quite often it's because you're not able to share a load.
So again it's really housing costs and the cost of
care that really pushes things up. So unfortunately, there is
this kind of this penalty of being single where you
just don't have the economies of scale when it comes
to housing and utilities, and so there's there's a little
(05:46):
bit of a bit of a challenge there for older people.
And of course, as you know, we have a lot
more single older people as your partner passes away before
the other one. And of course we're also seeing those
at the margin more marriages breaking up later on in life.
So there's lots of reasons why we're seeing lots more
people living alone in older ages.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And there are so many too. For one deals that
I see there are cheaper holiday packages, single rooms cost
more than doubles. Car insurance companies give discounts for more
than one vehicle, and Uber eights always have deals buy
one curry and get another free, that kind of thing.
It seems like there's no winning for singles out there.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I reckon it's coming though. So while it is still
the case that we have larger families still being the
dominant part of our societies, over the course of the
coming decade, we're going to see the fastest growing groups
being singles in couples, and so as we see the
number of people living alone increased massively, I think the
marketers are going to tip into that group of people
(06:43):
as long as they're buying enough stuff. So I think
you're right. Right now, we're not seeing marketers really looking
into this massive market of single people who are ready
to consume things. But we will see that change over
the coming decades because their demographic tie. It is turning already,
and we will see it pick up pace quite considerably.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
And I es, buying your own home seems impossible for
a single person unless you're out there having no fue
and eating plane rice and tuna for breakfast and lunch
and dinner. How can a single person do it alone?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Look, it is hard. It's hard for everybody, and it's
even harder for singles, mainly because it's harder for them
to save because compared to a couple who are on
comparable incomes. If there's two of them, they will have
just more money left over at the end of the week,
So that inability to save means it's harder to get
to the deposit. Once you get the deposit, it's a
lot of your income that might be going towards your home.
(07:37):
You know, some of the strategies that we're seeing coming
out at the moment is a lot of younger people
who are single are borrowing from their mom and dad
to be able to put in the deposit. They're taking
on housemates to be able to afford it. So they're
not ideal solutions, but those are the kinds of strategies
that people are dealing with given just how difficult it
(07:57):
is to get into the housing market.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I interviewed brookvie Velden last year about workplace law changes,
including paternity leave, and I do think I stunned her
into silence by suggesting a type of paternity leave for
single people. Given the changing landscape now, the universal idea
of that nuclear family from the fifties is kind of
just getting dimmer and dimmer. Should we start talking about
(08:21):
entitle tments for perhaps single and or childless workers as well.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So are you suggesting the government pays for people who
don't have children to have a form of.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Leave. I mean, it's a conversation starter.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Look, I don't think that's where this government is going.
It's an interesting concept. I think it's the first time
that's been raised with me.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
But do you think the government should be looking at
things to help ease the cost of living for single people?
What about the government bring in some kind of single
person home grount or something like that to help, because
we know millennials and Gen z they're partnering later in
life if at all.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, And I think it's it's that what's the ideal
state of households in New Zealand versus what the reality is.
I think in our mind it's still that nuclear family
with mom, dad, to kids and a dog, right, But
that's not really the reality of how New Zealand lives anymore.
So our policies, our settings, the things that we're trying
(09:32):
to do are very focused around that nuclear family unit,
except of course, what we've got is that you know,
younger people coupling up later, older people living singly or couplely.
There's all the kind of wider issues of housing affordability
and the cost of living, and our welfare system or
our system of supporting each other isn't really taking that
into account. Now. I don't know for sure if we
(09:53):
should have a specific policy for singles, but certainly I
think we should have welfare that gives everybody dignity in life.
And when people are not able to afford the basics
in life and have a reasonable standard of living, what
we see is that people become disconnected and discomfited, and
we see anger in society and in our politics. I'm
not saying it's caused by singles, but what I'm saying
(10:15):
is that when we feel like, because of where we
are in a life, somehow we can't participate in the
things that are normal for New Zealand, that's really troubling
and I feel like that is starting to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I know a lot of countries around the world are
offering more tax benefits to adults who have more children. Hungry,
for example, has launched a tax exemption for mothers who
have two or more children. Is it fair to say
that governments prefer us to have children grow the population
and all that.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Absolutely, we've seen around the world over many, many years,
many decades, efforts to try and encourage people to have
more children. None of them have worked, so it's just
a complete and utter waste of money. It might help
those families who have children, but actually none of these
policies have proven to increase fertility rates, so it's good
money after that. I think it'd be much better if
(11:13):
we just properly spend money on childcare and education and
things like that, and actually just made it easier for
women in particular to be able to take time off
for work if they needed to care for their families,
and for elderly people, because it's those kinds of issues
that are much bigger issues.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
It's not that we're coupling up later because we don't
want to have kids. It's because everything just costs so
damn much that we have to spend many years to
progrisinal careers before we can afford those things. So look,
absolutely we're seeing those policies around the world to try
and increase fertility rates, but I can tell you of
all the reviews that I have seen, they don't work.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And I guess back to life being hard when you're single.
If you're single and you lose your job, you lose
one hundred percent of your income, right, but if you're
living with a partner, you lose part of it. That
puts added pressure on single people high on top of
everything else, exactly, you.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Just have less room to maneuver. And I think that's
that wider thing of you know, I'm not again, I'm
not going to tell you to couple up with somebody
who's not suitable. But having a partner or friends or
family or wider network who can support you through those
hard times is really helpful. And we tend to kind
of focus on the immediate family for those kinds of things. Particularly,
I think in mainstream society when you look at Mari
(12:24):
and Pacifica in particular, or even in Asian communities, we
do see a lot more of community help in terms
of those informal networks being much stronger. But we have
lost a lot of that in New Zealand because you know,
the deal when we built the welfare state was that
you don't need to maintain those other things because the
government's got you. But of course we know that things
like welfare and other things, you know, there's a stand
down period you have to wait and if you're a
(12:46):
single person and there is no one to support you,
it becomes really troubling. And also the challenge, of course
is that, as you know, in a lot of the
poverty in New Zealand is amongst our working people. You know,
we have this big issue of the working poor in
New Zealand where if you're working in jobs that are
precarious in terms of hours and pay, then it is
really hard when something happens. So it's that inability to
(13:08):
make things work for yourself. So the solution to that,
of course is to have some precautionary savings if you can,
so always have a little bit of a thing on
the side, because life happens and you need to be
prepared and you can't always rely on somebody else.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And is it an issue of high rent prices as well?
I mean, how much of a single person's income only
goes towards rent?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, quite a big check. And that's where the big
difference is because if you think about it, if there
is a you know, we're comparing a couple of similar
you know, two similar incomes and one person living on
their own. They might be renting the same type of
let's one bedroom apartment and the cost will be the same,
but one is spread across two incomes and for the
single person they're sharing the whole load. And so on average,
(13:50):
the typical kind of rent in New Zealand versus the
typical wage in New Zealand is roughly around forty percent.
So if you're living alone, then you know you're spending
forty percent of the income minimum to kind of be
able to afford your home. Whereas it there's two of you,
you might be able to afford a better place, or
you might be able to spend a lot less of
your combined income on your house. And that is the
housing is the big one. There is just no economist
(14:11):
a scale when it comes to splitting a house.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Not to mention, couples who choose to get married get
a financial assist by the way of cashing gifts from
wedding guests. Right, is it time to make getting married
to yourself popular so I can set up a registry?
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Do you think you're still going to get the gifts
and things?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Well, that's what i'd hope for.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, well, I don't know. I think it's a very
novel idea and we should give it a go and
see what happens.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Well, there's also that, I guess stigma towards how single
people spend their money as well. Hey, I remember an
episode of Sex in the City where carries Minola and
Dolani's got stolen at her friend's house. When she asked
her mate to pay for them, she said it's irresponsible
for carry to spend hundreds of dollars on shoes and refuses.
But then she adds up all the money she spent
on her friend over the years, from baby showers to
(14:55):
bachelorette parties, and decided to make her foot the bill anyway,
don't forgives. I mean, if you.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Got married or had a child, she spend the same
on you.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And if I don't ever get married or have a baby,
what I get? Bob kiss think about it.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
If you are single after graduation, there isn't one occasion
where people celebrate you. We are birthdays.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
No, no, no, no, we all have birthdays. That's awash
I am talking about the single galp.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Hallmark doesn't make a congratulations you didn't marry the wrong
guide card?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And where's the flatwear for going on vacation alone? I
guess what I'm trying to get at is is it
fair that single people get chastised for the way that
they spend their money?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Absolutely not, absolutely not. I think how you choose you
choose to spend your money is up to you, and
I think there is a lot of judgment that happens regardless.
I just put out a survey on social cohesion in
New Zone and one of the things that really comes
through in that is the stereotyping that we do and
the projection that we do our own values and preferences
to other people. And that's really unfair. Right when we
(16:05):
are dealing with somebody else, we should be curious to
understand where they're coming from, rather than try to convert
them to our way of being. You know, the whole
beauty of this world is not because everybody's like you.
It's because people are different, and we like being around
people who are different to us. That's where the joy
comes from.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
So, Chama Belle, let's have a little brainstorm. What are
some discounts or I guess government interventions that would benefit
single childless people.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Do you think, well, I think it's really thinking about
whether or not the way that we think about what
kind of households need A lot of support right at
the moment, it's very geared to as families. I understand
why we should invest in children, that's fine, But the
fact that there is a high cost of being single
is currently reflected in things like the New Zealand super
but not in many of the other types of assistance
(16:50):
that's out there. So we should really try and think
very carefully about are we helping those people who really
need it, or are we helping people that we think
morally and values wise, that we think are more deserving
than of others. Now, there is no reason why single
people should be stigmatized just because that's not our model
view of a New Zealand family looks like, because that
(17:11):
is simply not true anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Thanks for joining us, Jammer Belle, thank you for having me.
That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
(17:33):
our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front
Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines,
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