October 13, 2024 • 40 mins
Getting eight hours a night isn't enough, the quality of your sleep may be more important than the duration.
Sleep expert Alex Bartle joins Tim Beveridge to discuss the variety of things that may be detrimental to your sleep.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Ab me up when.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
When a w.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Mod all this same mass didn't know it was not
swing many win alf.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beveridge.
By the way, if you missed politics, a couple of
fascinating interviews. There were one with Time of Portaco, the
Minister for Conservation and Minster Winston. Minster Winston Plade a
deeply prime minister, should I say, and look, I am
embarrassing my producer, but she just had a moment where
she had just had a she just said a moment
(01:03):
and she accidentally called him minister Winston. And he kept
on referring to himself and the third person as Minister
Winston while he was talking to off air. And it
shows he's got a good sense of humor. All I
think of him is Winston Peters. But if you if
you missed the interview, you can go and check out
our podcast. Look for the Weekend Collective on iHeartRadio. And
we get our stuff up as soon as we practically
(01:23):
practicably yes that's the word I'm looking for. Can. But
right now we want your calls eight hundred eighty ten
eighty and your texts on nine two nine two. My
guest is I haven't seen haven't seen him for why
but he's a regular on the show. I think last
time he was in there was another host, but Alex Bartele,
doctor Alex Bartell. He's the owner of the Sleep World Clinic,
(01:43):
and broadly speaking simply, he is a sleep doctor. I
guess is that a fair enough way to describe? It's
pretty good?
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's me.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
How have you been sleeping lately? I always ask you
every time I see, well.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Pretty well? Actually, thank goodness. Yeah. If I can't, I
know what to do. That's the main thing.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Well, actually, I've got a quick question on just some
really people take me literally. I mentioned about counting shit
because you know, it's a metaphor counting sheep, and somebody
text me to go, you don't count to sheep, sleep
to sheep to get to sleep. And I was thinking
that there's someone who's taken me quite literally. But where
does that come from? And is there something about doing
something a bit mundane?
Speaker 5 (02:21):
It's repetitive mundane, and it's not a bad strategy, to
be honest. If it works for you, then great, so yeah,
doing things that are taking your mind off the fact
I can't sleep. I can't sleep, I can't sleep. So
counting sheeps, you know, see them going through the turnstile whatever,
and or you know, taking yourself on the holiday somewhere.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
It's funny. I was thinking I did try counting sheep.
I'm not sure if they'd be jumping through hoops over hedges.
They have to be doing something a little. They couldn't
just be there's a sheep.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
No, no, no, it has to be getting them in
for shearing or something, but something pretty boring.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Where does it come from that expression?
Speaker 5 (02:59):
I think probably exactly that it's a repetitive one two three,
there's a sheep nineteen twenty.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Well, I do have a producer who's very quick on
her research here while we've been talking, and she has
just messaged me saying that some scholars believe that the
saying originated centuries ago with sheepherders who couldn't sleep until
they had counted all of their sheep to make sure
none were missing. And that intuitively makes sense, doesn't it.
You're looking after a flock, you can't sleep until you've
(03:30):
counted the sheep. But maybe they never got to the
end of it, so like, okay, I'm just counting them.
The wolf would come in and go got he's started
to count the sheep. Just wait till you's asleep. Random thought.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
Very good.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
We want to know how you get to sleep. But
if you have a question around any problems with sleep,
whether you've got interrupted sleepy wake up in the middle
of the night, or you've got you know, you've got
problems on your mind, and how do you deal with
you know, certain changes that impact your life, I mean
having kids. Well that's actually I don't recall having problems
(04:07):
with sleep in terms of getting back to sleep. It
was just the fact that it was interrupted.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
But I guess yeah, interrupted to sleep with children, I
mean as they learn to sleep, because they have to
learn that process and being confident about it. You know,
when you're dealing with an eighteen month or two year old,
then it can be quite challenging. When they get to five, six,
seven age, they've got lots of melatonin. It's the golden
(04:32):
years of sleep. Generally sort of in that pre Puberdah
group is a really good sleepers generally, Oh you.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Just mentioned melatonin, so they have a lot of melitony. Yeah,
that may instantly, I thought, and there'll be people listening, going,
Does that mean I can take melatonin it will help
me help me sleep?
Speaker 5 (04:47):
No, it needs to be your melatonin in your brain,
not melotone and you take into your tummy.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
How disappointing. Well, I mean it does inhaling it.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
We do use it for asd adhd children who are
particularly hyper, and it can just calm them down. It's
a soper if you kids a calmer down rather than
a it's not a sleeping pill.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
By the way, it's worth pointing out, and this is
me stepping out somee remit really, but if you go
into a health food shop and they tell you that
they've got melatonin, it will be the homeopathic version, which
is donated one in one hundred times times thirty times.
So they delute it one one hundred and delute it,
then delute it and diluted, than delut it. It's not
me at thirty then delute it, then delut But so
it's not actually really melantonin.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
No, No, that's exactly right. You don't need very much,
but you know, very small amount, but it will all
to your circadian phase. In other words, the time when
you go to go to sleep and when you wake
up rather than being an actually sleeping pill.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Are people's sleep habits. I'm asking for my own point
of view because I do overnight talk, but just twice
a week. But I've noticed, because I've done had two
or three weeks not doing that, that on Wednesday and
Thursday nights or mornings Wednesday Thursday mornings when I would
normally be sleeping after an overnight, even though I haven't
done them, Almost like my body has got a weekly
(06:07):
clock that knows these two days because it's weird. Maybe
it's just what's the word psychosomatic or something, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
To a degree, it's going to be that I'm ensure
your body gets used to a certain rhythm and who knows.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
So the other question I had, and by the way,
you can call any time if you've got some questions
for Alex, because anything from sleep app now to well
the restless legs thing always crops up at some stage.
We've got any questions about getting a good night sleep,
then we want to hear from you. Or if you've
found something that works for you, then you share it
with us and we'll and we'll debunk it. I'm just kidding.
(06:46):
The other one I'm interested about is and again it
could just be the pacebo effect. That's the one I'm
looking for. I I'm so shallow on this. I was
watching Showgun, which is an amazing series, and they were
having a green tea ceremony and I thought I might
have some jasmine tea and I slipped like a log
(07:07):
jasmine t just and I was wondering, are there certain
substances that if you do drink them, that maybe do assist,
you know, like a hot glass glass of hot milk
or milk.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Milk has been the traditional one, and that's got the
ideas that it's got trip to fan in it, so
that converts eventually to five ourduty trip to fan. It's
five HTP you can buy over the counter. Then that
goes to five aducty trip to mean, which is serotonin,
and serotonin converts to melatonin. So in theory, taking milk
with trip to fan and it will help you go
to sleep because it increases your melatonin.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
The milk does have trip to fan and yes, okay,
so you don't need to add in too.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
No, no, it's got trips.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Okay, so just drink milk.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Well, but except that it takes probably several hours to
get through the system into creating brain melt. And it's
got to go into the gut. It goes first part
through the liver, then it goes into the bloodstream across
the blood brain barrier. You know, the best way into
your brain as far as melatonin is concerned, is through
the eyes. The eyes, it hits your retina.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
What does the light?
Speaker 5 (08:06):
The light hits your written It suppresses melotonin, gets rid
of melotonin.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Blue light, yes, blue light.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
Well outside light light. It starts producing serotonin. And we
know that blue green light is very you know, it's
good for producing this happy hormone if you like. And serotonin,
as I said, converts to melotonin. But it's all happening
in your brain rather than through your tummy and through
your bloodstream.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
And so just to clarify this for me, so when
I opened the curtains in the morning, and that's the daylight,
is it what kicks in? The blue light triggers.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
What it suppresses, melotonin, suppresses, gets rid of melatonin, it
starts to producing zerotone. But remember the indoor light is
pathetic compared to that door light. So indoor light you know,
in an office where we are now, is probably no
more than four or five hundred lucks in him, always
less than a thousand lucks indoors outside, even on a
cloudy day like it is today, it's going to be
(08:57):
something like forty to fifty thousand lucks. It's completely different outside,
and that's what our brains have been used to for
thousands of years, and the outside light has been blue
and green, so that's been a natural environment. So I
love blue green outside.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
And that wakes her up. But that serotonin during the
course of the day converts to malotonin, which happens light.
Got it. Oh, so unless you've said this before, So
the thing is when you get up, you should get
outside early on and get that serotonin kicked in because
that will also it's like an investment in the bank
from when you need to go to sleep.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
Absolutely, yeah, that's outside light. What our ancestors didn't have
was glare, So they didn't have chilchu buildings on concrete
slabs and time academus. They had trees and plants, and
so this intense light hits the earth and you're scattered
blue green. That wakes us up, makes us feel good
and then all that conversed. So when your mum said
to you many years ago, for example, your sleep light
(09:51):
in their tonight did because you've had lots of fresh air.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
You've heard the fresh air. It's not fresh air because
you've been outside. It's the light. So, for instance, my
daughter when she wakes up, if she's a little bit
tired and grumpy and she's open to curtains, she actually
can step out onto the deck of she open the door,
I should just say step outside for a minute or two,
and then maybe we'll get a slightly different atitude when
you come upstairs. No thing, okay, we want to hear
all your questions on sleep by the wait, sorry, just
(10:16):
quickly before we go to our call up. The jasmine
tea thing and anything.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
Probably not at least it's not caffeinated at least okay, Well.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Does tea have much caffeine and generally black tea?
Speaker 5 (10:28):
No, Well, a five minute brew of tea gum boot
tea is going to be about fifty milligrams of caffeine.
One hundred milligrams of caffeine is a no dose tablet,
so sort of linking it to that, about fifty milligrams
for five minute group. A good strong brew of tea,
dipping it out of a tea bay of an earl
gray tea bag is not going to be very much
(10:48):
at all.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Okay, And I keep on saying I'm going to the
break and take calls. But there's one follow up question.
You mentioned one hundred milligrams of caffeine, so a flat
white has about one hundred and twenty one hundred and forty,
So forget the no dose, just to go and have
a cup of coffee.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
Absolutely and espresso doubles show to expressed, it's going to
be about one hundred and twenty absolutely excellent.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
This is great stuff. We want your questions. Of course,
we've got plenty of texts coming in and totally what
Let's kick it off with the call Terry, Hello.
Speaker 7 (11:16):
Goody, how are you right? So I've got good So
I've been happy to be marriage for twenty five years
and my wife suddenly going through menopauses. It's affected to
asleep dramatically. So the side part, or the bad part
for me is that now my snoring has become an issue.
So first of all, I jumped on a snore app
(11:36):
snall lamb. I think it seems the most popular. Figured out, okay,
I am snoring and it is quite loud. So the
next thing to doing some research found out about the
jaw dropping, which apparently flocks up the airways. So I
looked online with this psora of massive amount of options
I could do. So there was all these mouth guards,
which I ordered one when I arrived. It's like having
(11:58):
two oranges in your mouth. So I have evern't tried that.
You know, I will try it, but I'm currently using
what's called a snoring which works on electromegas. I wunning
what your feedback for thoses, because it seems to be
that it's decreased by snoring. Has it stopped it all again?
But it certainly seems to decrease it over a two
week periods. So wondering is it psychological or is there
actually something with this hypropoint.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
To be honest, I've not come across as snoring. Where
do you wear it?
Speaker 7 (12:26):
You were on your little finger.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
I'm not sure. I really wouldn't know why that would work.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
So supposed to be it's got magnets on the two
sides that work with Yeah, I mean half the research
is it's rubbish? Half the research, Well, research it's online.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Sorry, right, okay, yeah, no, understood. Well, I mean I
can't see why it would work. I mean, the fact
that it's getting better is good news. That's fine. There's
no question that menopause does interrupt sleep, but it's it's
so your wife is, in other words, is much more
awake now than she perhaps was ten years ago. Well,
(13:07):
as far as you're concernered, yeah, I mean, if you
are doing the small lab app then if you're having
some severe or epic snoring, and I think at there
are two top levels, you've almost certainly got some sleep
happen here, So you almost certainly have some sleep apener
as well, and that would be worth checking out, and
(13:27):
we do certainly do some testing on that.
Speaker 7 (13:31):
Yeah, it seems to be about twenty five percent of
the time I'm asleep. It seems to be as soon
as I've fall asleep. It's not long after or before
I have to get up. Thanks to the times during
the middle, not too.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Bad, it seems to be, ok yeah, yeah, and it
will vary night by night, yeah, very a little bit
night by night. But you know, getting your snoring out
just for your own health is probably a good idea
and your wife might consider looking at her her menopause
or symptoms if she's getting a lot of flushing, particularly
which might be waking here in the middle of the night.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Hey, Terry, did you did you do? You know you're
not sleeping in the middle of the night, but did
you record? I missed that? But how do you know
it's just.
Speaker 8 (14:09):
Snoring through the.
Speaker 7 (14:15):
Yeah, you're basically plugging at your pone. Put it and
the records you during the night. And did you recording that?
You've got different points you're moving along and listen it
shows you a Graand.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Sorry, just dropping out there, mate, But I get it.
So I just messed that. But I guess because I
was thinking maybe that if he was being monitored by
his partner, but where he wasn't snoring was because she
had fallen asleep.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Now, the problem with small app as well, which is
an excellent app, which is a free app, is that
it will measure any noise. So if his wife is snoring,
for example, it will measure her snoring as well. So
we usually use that when people are sleeping by themselves.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Okay, well that intuitive makes sense.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Obviously it's measuring noise basically, so it doesn't matter where
they come from.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, continuous farting, it would probably pick up as well. Anyway,
we're going to take your calls. I eight one hundred
eighty ten eighty. Any questions about getting a good night's sleep,
or you've got young kids you won't sleep, or you
you intermittent sleeper problems, snoring, sleep ap near give us
a call. Alex Bartell, he's the owner of sleep Well Clinic,
is with us. It is twenty two minutes past four
(15:27):
and news talk to you b I eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. In the summer time, when a well who
is high you.
Speaker 9 (15:35):
Can change find now benders this guy.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
When the weather's fine, you go, women, you go, women
on your mind, average drink cabageob.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
And welcome back.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
Well.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
That song is sort of about some sunlight, which is
how you get the serotonin cracking which gives you the
melotone later on, as we understand from my guest Alex Bartle,
owner of a sleepwealth clinic. Alex, just before we go
to our callers, you thought you might enjoy this text.
My husband has a sea pap machine, which as we know,
it's for sleep up now and sleeps very peacefully. But
apparently I wake them up now because I grind my teeth.
(16:08):
What would cause that.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Or tooth grinding? There are a number of issues there,
of course. One of course, it tends to be worse
when you're stressed. It tends to be perhaps it tends
to be a bit of familial. But it's also worse
with sleep apnea. So actually treating sleep apnea will actually
often help this bruxism or teeth grinding. But otherwise your
dentist will provide you with a grinding plate.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
We also had a question from someone about that if
you have sleep problems as it covered by health insurance.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Not all Southern Cross does n IB That doesn't.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Depends on your cover doesn't.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
It doesn't at all. Southern Cross does variably depend on
what level you've got.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Okay, so check it out. If you do want to
get some treatment and you're worried about the cost of
it and you've got health insurance, it.
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Gives a ring because the clinic can always check it
out for you if you're not sure.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Good stuff, Yeah, excellent, right, let's carry on leus.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
Hello you, good afternoon guys.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
My son and daughter and I've got two children, a
daughter of five, and a half and the granddaughter grandson
of three and a half. Now, the grandson is not
sleeping past five five point thirty every morning, so come
the end of the week, everybody's just absolutely wrecked. He
goes to bed at a regular time, he's eating like
(17:28):
every meals, the last supper. Just don't know how we
can stretch in that extra hour hour on the quarter
in the morning.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
I'm not sure that I can help you there, because
waking time is pretty biologically driven in pre puberty in
that young age group. And even if he went to
bed at I went to sleep at midnight, he'd probably
still wake at five point thirty. Yeah, yeah, And when
he becomes a teenager then he'll start sleeping in probably,
(17:58):
But at this stage it doesn't matter what time they
go to bed, they tend to wake up much the
same time. I guess keeping the room as dark as
you can to try and keep his sleep going as
long as you can would be the only thing I
can suggest. Presumably he's getting enough sleep by the sound
of it, he sleeps well.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Hey, lis is he in his own room?
Speaker 8 (18:21):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (18:21):
He is.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
I just remember with our daughters that what might not
have been five thirty, but once they got you say, three,
about three or four years old.
Speaker 10 (18:30):
Is he?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, he'll be He'll be four next March, so it's
probably three and a half.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I mean. The only thing this is not this is
outside of the sleep doctor sort of thing, but the
only thing. We had a daughter who used to wake
up a little bit earlier, and we just said, you know,
she knews how to read the time, and we'd just
be like, you know, we choose a book before she
went to bed, and if you wake up at this time,
you are to read the book until x o'clock and
then we'll come and see you. I don't know if
(18:58):
that helps.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
They've got him.
Speaker 11 (19:00):
They've got both him and his sister a clock because
his sister used to do that but not so and
when it goes a certain color, that's when you get up,
and they've sort of got that shit for like a
quarter past six. But yeah, he's just he's just waking
up when the sun the yellow.
Speaker 7 (19:15):
I mean, if he lives to be a teenager, then
he's gonna he's.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Going to capitalize on his sleep.
Speaker 11 (19:20):
But yeah, I suppose that's just his body clock.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Yeah, it is his body clock. But I think that
what Tim has suggested is actually not a bad idea,
you know, having this clock and as you've already decided,
so that when he you know, say when he when
the eyes go blue or whatever it is, then they
can get up, so at least they're not disturbing the
rest of the family.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yeah, I think, I mean, you've got to it's got
to be worth trying anyway. Hey, thanks for your call.
Speaker 11 (19:41):
Good, thank you.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Yeah, I mean we did do we say? Look, if
you do wake up, darling, then then you need to
know that unless you want a grumpy mummy and daddy,
then you stay in bed and here are a couple
of books you can read. And once the clock turns
this you can come and give us a big bag.
And I think that sort of works, all works now
that they're a bit older, But I don't mind sleeping
when they're a bit older. Right, that's top past to fall.
(20:08):
Let's go to Doug. Hello.
Speaker 10 (20:10):
Hi, I'm a blind person and i don't sleep very
well and I've been diagnosed with sleep apnea. In fact,
I was waking thirty three times in the hour. The
machine is okay, but very uncomfortable with the mask and
(20:31):
tossing and turning all night. I've just recently had a
hip replacement, so I'm tossing and turning. Now. What I've
done is I talked to the doctor, and the doctors
suggested that I take a sleeping tablet, a Larrazapan, but
only every third night. So every night that I'm not
(20:54):
sleeping properly is a pain in the provovel. However, I've
been listening to I've tried everything. I've been listening to
music sleep music and ask them to play it for
an air on Google and so that's helped. But I
(21:15):
still wake up in the off nights where I can't
sleep feeling terrible. And as a blind person, you can't
sort of sit out in the sun very often because
you can't get that melatonin.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Any other suggestions, well, depends blindness, and I'm not sure
how severe your blindness is, but blindness is a loss
of things called rods and cones, which are in the
retinas that produce the idea. But these retinal ganglion cells
can still be preserved despite that, so spending time outside,
unless you've had a nucleation or the eyes being completely removed,
(21:53):
you may still have that light dark sensitivity without realizing it. However, otherwise,
we do use melatonin at night and that sometimes can
help to produce some melatonin taken a good hour or
two before you want to go to sleep. Good little
all to the sleep phase a little bit as far
as the mask is concerned, And if you've got severe
(22:16):
sleep hapenar, which you have going back to the person
who diagnosed the sleep happenar for you, and you need
to adjust the mask, you need to get a mask
that fits comfortably. I think that's another thing you could do,
because most masks you can find a mask that fits
in the end, so that needs to be changed a
(22:36):
little bit. But certainly a bit of melotone in the
morning sorry at nighttime should be helpful. And possibly there
may still be some light dark sensitive cells in your
eyes depending on the day.
Speaker 10 (22:49):
I get very very very sore eyes with glear and
outside and I've got a weirds all.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Right read pigment Okay, wow, yes.
Speaker 10 (23:02):
Okay, so there is an issue. Yeah, but the sleeping
of course makes me very grumpy.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Yes, yes, I.
Speaker 10 (23:12):
Live alone and so there's no issue there. But it's
the continual thinking, thinking, overthinking.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Thinking, Yeah, what use saying yeah no.
Speaker 10 (23:24):
Oh absolutely yeah. But the melotone, and I did try once,
but it didn't seem to help me because I'm on
twenty three other medications as well.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Yeah, okay, you know, just another one. Yes, I mean
melatonin generally, isn't it of course a sleeping pillar? Know
would we expect to take it melotone and go to sleep? Well,
there won't work like that.
Speaker 10 (23:48):
Well, I just had listening to the children with those
things that tell you when to get up and go
to the head and so on. My grandson had a
problem and all he did was pull switch it off
at the wall.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
So right, well he may have grumpy appearance in that case.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yeah, they see, thanks for thank you, thanks for quick
just a quick text HEREM and my olderly mother has
chronic consomner has slipped for three or four hours. Haven't
slipped from one three or four hours a night for years.
Sleep clinics where you just have a consultation and get
some ideas haven't helped. Are there sleep clinics in New
Zealand the laboratory based in other words, where you can
stay over night and be fully investigated.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
The answer is no, not really, There's very few people
who actually investigate in do overnight sleep studies on insomnia.
The thinking in the past has always been, of course,
if you can't sleep, why do you want to do
an overnight sleep study when you're not going to when
you're going to be awake all night.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Well it's a sleep study and lack of sleep study,
I guess.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
So people are just lying there. All that would do
is confirm the fact that you're not sleeping very much.
Now they have more recently done studies on people within
within somnia, which has been happening now for the last
sort of ten to fifty years, just occasionally. What they
found is that people asleep probably more than they think
they are, and so it may it may well be
(25:15):
that you're actually sleeping a little bit more than the
three or four hours you're getting. But otherwise it's behavioral
stuff that actually makes the difference in the ind So
it is talk therapy. It's what you need to be
doing rather than what you need to be taking. That's important.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
A lot of the stuff that you've actually seen on
the shows rubbed off on me because there's a few
times where I've known, you know, when people think, oh,
it's been awake all night, and you realize, how on
was I really because you sort of you might be awaken.
I can't sleep and the cat sleep. Then you actually
will drift off for an hour and then you'll sort
of come to slowly and assume that you haven't slept
at all. You don't sometimes know if you've been asleep.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Yeah, there's a thing called sleep state misperception, which we
talk about. In other words, we think we've been awake
all night, whereas in fact we've been drifting out of
sleep and we don't know that. We know when we're awake,
but we don't know when we're asleep. By definition, we're asleep.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Another quick one before we go to the break, and
we've got some calls lined up, so we'll get on
to you very quickly if you're waiting. Just that question
about if you wake up and you are annoyed about
waking up. I think your advice was do not look
at your clock, right, And I'm about fifty fifty. Sometimes
I don't and sometimes I do. Yeah, and I think
(26:22):
I've settled on just don't look at the clock. Yeah,
unless you're convinced it's time to get up.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
Yes, I mean, if it's still, if it's dark and
it's the lights, you know, the night of the dawn
hasn't broken, then looking at the clock really doesn't help.
It should you should be asleep, so go back to sleep.
And the alarm hasn't gone off, so go back to sleep.
It's just that looking at the clock. For many people,
it alerts you, Oh, no, it's two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
I'm awake.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Here we go again. Then you look at the clock
now it's two thirty. Oh I'm still awake. Well you
don't know that. All you know is you looked at
the clock at two and you looked at it two thirty.
What happened between time? You may have drifted off for
twenty minutes, but you can compute that I've been awake
for half now. But if you think had been awake,
then we often say get out of bed. Often we
(27:09):
suggest only fifteen minutes now, just reset back into bed.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
I think the other thing is that never look at
your phone if that's your clock, because that's not true.
I've got a watch. I can sometimes flicker and go,
oh goodye, I've still got two and a half hours.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
That's good, that's fine. If that works like that, and
I do that as well, I can see the time
in the middle of the night doesn't bother me. I
just say, oh great, I've got another hour or two.
That's why I go b Actually.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
They are at seven o'clock. You're like, what I've gotta
get up? Okay, right, let's say we'll take a break.
We'll be back with more calls in just a moment.
News Talks. He'd be my guest is Alex Bartell. He's
the owner of sleep Well Clinic. Website is Alex sleep Well, sleep.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
Welld clinic dot co.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Do excellent, We'll be back and just sick. This is
News Talks. Be twenty two minutes to five. Everybody was
going five the fastest slap.
Speaker 8 (28:00):
In fact, it fat.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
And as you know, we like to tie our music
into our theme. And I was thinking, what does kung
fu fighting have to do with sleep? And as might
produce a tie tells me it's because exercise is good
during the day. To I'll you sleep and Alex Bartle
would concur with that. When you Alex, I would indeed, right,
let's take some more Coughse's lots of text and we
have to try and move with the bit of pace.
Lots of people wanted to talk them and engage with
(28:24):
the show.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Lola, Hello, Yes, good afternoon.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
Go rang up a short time ago and said his
three year old woke up at five o'clock in the morning.
I had one of those, and he still like it.
He daybreaks and he's away. When I put curtains up
in their room and he ripped them down, and he
was like a bear with a saw toe all day.
(28:50):
And so when he was a baby, if we had
capped key by five o'clock, otherwise he'd be going to
sleep and he wouldn't eat, and so, and he still
like it. Today, goes to bed eight thirty at night
and he's up five o'clock in the morning. He's done
the days before everybody gets up. And when he was young, well,
(29:13):
when he was eight or nine, seven, seven or eight,
he raided the fridge before everybody got up. He had
what he wanted and we got what's the leftovers. And
so it's mainly a change. But the only suggestion I
can make is to put the blacker room out, and
if he gets angry, you'd.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Have to not do it and put up with it.
How old he's.
Speaker 7 (29:43):
Fifty, I think somewhere around there.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
He's what they call a morning chronotype. So the different.
He's a morning person, he's a lark, and if he's
getting enough sleep, good on him. That's fine. I don't
know that shouldn't really worry people at all. Sounds like
he gets enough sleep anywhere, which is great.
Speaker 6 (30:03):
Oh he's a very had ricker as well. He's an inventory.
He does all kinds of things.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
And yeah, thanks, I was waiting for I thought she
jokingly she was going to say thirty or forty. Exceeded
my expectations on that, right, let's more calls Mike Haigh.
Speaker 8 (30:21):
Good, I, how are you guys?
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Very good?
Speaker 8 (30:24):
I've got a simple one. How do you turn your
brain off? I get through to about midnight lying bed.
I can't switch the brain off. I tried it is
it Acmr? You listen to things on the radio with
the monotone, and you know that'll go for an hour
and I'll still be lying there thinking about what have
I got to do the next day or what haven't
I done? How do you switch it off?
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Well, I mean there are obviously relaxation strategies that people use,
but what two things that I call quite like using.
One is journaling. So spend a bit of time writing
stuff down that's going on around and around in your
head at night. So there'll be certain things that you're
perhaps on your mind. If you're writing it, externalizing it,
(31:05):
we call it. So it's writing stuff down, it's putting
it out there, but onto a piece of paper. When
you've done that, you can throw it away. But it's
actually the externalizing, it's the writing stuff down that's helpful.
The second thing is actually writing a plan for the
next day, so you actually before you go to bed,
you can write down exactly what you have in mind
for tomorrow. So when you wake in the middle of
the night and think, oh what was that time? What
(31:26):
a email I've got to do? Or what meeting is
it that? Oh no, I've got it written down, So
you've actually taken some action to deal with those problems
that are buzzing around in your head in the middle
of the night.
Speaker 8 (31:37):
What time do you go to bed, well, midnine, have
about twelve.
Speaker 5 (31:42):
Yeah, so you're a night you're a night owl as well.
So writing stuff down a good hour before you go
to bed, Writing down emotional stuff that you can throw
away and a bit of a plan for the next
day is often a good idea. But learning you know
breathing techniques. A bit of exercise stretching is good idea.
Not vigorous exercise, but a bit of stretching is okay
(32:04):
as well.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
You read Mike.
Speaker 8 (32:07):
The Toddlers once. If I if I get a book,
I like, yeah, i'd I just don't put it down.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
See if I get a book that I really like,
it doesn't matter that I've read half a chapter, I'm like, yeah,
you don't like read someone's really boring autobiography. We'll take
suggestions on that. What's the most boring book you've ever ready?
Thanks Mike, there's like, well, okay, thank you. I actually
(32:37):
found that it wasn't because it was boring, but I
got it. When I was in my theatrical career. I
was I was learning some monologues, and I read a
bit of I was reading a bit of Shakespeare. So
I decided to read Romeo and Juliet and Macbeth. And
actually I loved reading them. But because you'd be flicking
to the back, because the meaning sometimes the pros is
something where you sort of there's other levels to it,
and you'd s flick to the back to say, or
(32:58):
what else, what's the significance of this? And I must
say I'd read half a half of you know, just
two or three pages, and I'd enjoy it, but then
I'd suddenly be like, wow, I feel really tired. I
put the bed down and boom, I'm gone, Yeah, drive
it to Shakespeare.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Good idea, how is that?
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Let me check the time. Let's go to Wendy.
Speaker 8 (33:17):
Hello, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 5 (33:19):
Oh Wendy?
Speaker 6 (33:20):
Good?
Speaker 4 (33:20):
Thanks?
Speaker 10 (33:21):
Hi.
Speaker 9 (33:22):
I was interested to hear some callers about children that
wake up to really when my little boy was about
two and a half, he used to get out of
bed till about eleven o'clock at night, and I would
march him down the hall, go and sit down, and
then five minutes later i'd hear him trotting out again.
(33:42):
So he didn't get to sleep to about eleven, and
he woke ready to start the day at five am,
which as appearance, is very retiring. So what I did
was I sit an alarm in his room, and I
woke him at quarter to five, and we woke him
at quarter to five for about a week, and then
we slowly worked around the clock until the alarm was waking.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
And given very very good idea. The timepiece that is
the trigger for his brain to say, turned to wake up,
and his brain sort of half.
Speaker 9 (34:15):
Waiting for it, rather than him waking on his own
little body clock, which was too early for me. Yeah,
he was woken and got used to this and that.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
Yeah, it was a large farther good thinking, very clever,
and that's good thinking. And the I might even use
that myself.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
That's quite good. So you basically take him relying off
his own body clock and get him used to the
fact that all the alarm is going to wake me,
and then so he becomes less reliant intuitively on his
own body clock and more reliant on something else.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Yeah, an external stimulus alarm going off.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Yeah, I guess one of what it was like. But
I always think of what it was like for us
when we were before technology, when we're all farming folk
and the rooster was making us up. Sometimes you probably
just have rooster for dinner that night.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
Yeah, you just spent most of the day outside, which
of course makes a huge difference to sleep.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
What times are roosters crow?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (35:08):
Literally? They just the hint, the barest hint of light,
and they're they're going seat.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
That's probably right to the hell with daylight.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Screw having a rooster too.
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Ah.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
Anyway, Hey, look we'll be back in just a moment.
This is news talk, said b. It is eleven minutes
to five, and welcome back to the Week and Collective.
My guest is Alex at Bartle. He's the owner of
(35:41):
sleep Well Clinic. Let's sleep Well Clinic dot code on
it or is it just sleep well dot cod inza
sleep Well Clinic? And I said, what was that sleep
world clindic Actually just something we were talking about in
the break and somebody's texted on exactly the same topic.
I'm forty seven. I love a little afternoon siestra on
the couch for say an hour. Interesting your thoughts on
s esters.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
Yeah, it's it's pretty common. The first thing I'd say
is if you needing an afternoon nap, there's often something
wrong with your date, your nighttime sleep because you're needing it.
But that depends what age you are. I think once
you pass sort of sixty, having an afternoon nap if
for you not sleeping so well, that's not such a
bad thing. Keep it early, so if you nap after
(36:24):
about three pm, it's likely to impact on your ability
to get to sleep. So napping a little bit earlier
in the afternoon is a better idea. Keeping it relatively short.
The actual sleep time of twenty minutes or less is
what's recommended, which means you don't go into a deeper sleep,
which means you can wake up much more refreshed.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Okay, or I'll throw a few texts. How long do
you need to be outside to get that serotonin cracking
shaft the meltoniou syst.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
The recommended minimum is about half an hour?
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Okay? Is there any problem with taking magnesium sleep on
a regular basis? S is Tom.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
There's Studies with magnesium are fairly variable. One of the
major studies was done on elderly folk who made easium
deficient and it did seem to help them a little bit.
But really it's not that impressive except that it's got
sleep on the bottle, and that might work. That's a
pretty powerful trigger for our brain to say, oh, I've
(37:20):
taken something for sleep. I can probably get to sleep.
That placebo response. It's not being silly, it actually does.
It's really quite a powerful incentive. It is for pain
and it is for sleep.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
If I wake after oh this is my favor this one.
If I wake after midnight. I listened to zb that
tends to put me to sleep unless it's tim because interesting.
I just read that one out, because why wouldn't I.
This is a funny one, just on the noises in
the night. I have a grandfather clock that charms every hour,
never wakes me. Friends can't believe it, but I understand
(37:52):
your brain. Brain soon works out sounds that are okay
and not to wake you. Is that true?
Speaker 5 (37:58):
Yes, I think your brain has got used to it,
and so you will be hearing it, but you'll be
ignoring it. I mean, I think it's probably it will
go in, but it won't be getting you in.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
That must be how people who live in busy metropolitan
cities in apartments sleep because there's a certain bus and
tram and tooting sounds that you know.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
It's it's that, it's the tooting, it's the police car
going down and the fires to that will wake you.
The general background hum is quite soporific, it's quite sleep inducing,
but it's the big sounds.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Well, you've just raised that other one about people who
have the white noise for kids and crashing waves and stuff.
Is there? What what do we know?
Speaker 5 (38:41):
I think that's a good idea. It just blats out
other noises in lots of ways. So if you've got
to raise this background ambient sound with white noise, you
soon tune that out. But it does mean that you
don't hear any clicking creaking floorboards, or any little sounds
that are going on doors clicking in that sort of
thing that's going to wake you up.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
Get a I buy a ten mel bottle of lavender oil,
Tip it into a five hundred MILS spray bottle with
a drop of detergent to disperse the oil. Of course
this is detailed. Spray it onto my pillow. Great, but
then I play a play a replay of Parliament's debate.
Send anyone into the land of not so no a
little bit of lavender on your pillow and listening to
(39:23):
the latest hits of Parliament.
Speaker 6 (39:25):
Right.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
I mean, lavender has always been historically the thing that
helps people sleep. But they've done studies with lavender and
with jasmine and it worked or didn't work in just
the same sort of way. So it wasn't that massively helpful.
But if it worked for you, brilliant.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Gosh, time flies when you're having fun. I had none
of you have fallen asleep listening to the mellifluous tones
of Alex Bartell. But hey Alex, thanks so much for
coming in and we'll hold you again. But sleep well.
Clinic dot co dot nz thanks to him. And if
you've missed any of this hour and you've got problems
with sleep, go and listen to the podcast and great
suggestions and information on it and you know in the end,
(40:01):
just don't worry, be happy and off you go. We'll
be bad in just a moment with smart Money. This
is News Talks. It'd be.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
I Wanna Be next To?
Speaker 7 (40:20):
I Wanna be next to?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
For more from the Weekend Collective, Listen live to news
Talks It'd Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Ab me up when.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
When a w.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Mod all this same mass didn't know it was not
swing many win alf.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beveridge.
By the way, if you missed politics, a couple of
fascinating interviews. There were one with Time of Portaco, the
Minister for Conservation and Minster Winston. Minster Winston Plade a
deeply prime minister, should I say, and look, I am
embarrassing my producer, but she just had a moment where
she had just had a she just said a moment
(01:03):
and she accidentally called him minister Winston. And he kept
on referring to himself and the third person as Minister
Winston while he was talking to off air. And it
shows he's got a good sense of humor. All I
think of him is Winston Peters. But if you if
you missed the interview, you can go and check out
our podcast. Look for the Weekend Collective on iHeartRadio. And
we get our stuff up as soon as we practically
(01:23):
practicably yes that's the word I'm looking for. Can. But
right now we want your calls eight hundred eighty ten
eighty and your texts on nine two nine two. My
guest is I haven't seen haven't seen him for why
but he's a regular on the show. I think last
time he was in there was another host, but Alex Bartele,
doctor Alex Bartell. He's the owner of the Sleep World Clinic,
(01:43):
and broadly speaking simply, he is a sleep doctor. I
guess is that a fair enough way to describe? It's
pretty good?
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's me.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
How have you been sleeping lately? I always ask you
every time I see, well.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Pretty well? Actually, thank goodness. Yeah. If I can't, I
know what to do. That's the main thing.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Well, actually, I've got a quick question on just some
really people take me literally. I mentioned about counting shit
because you know, it's a metaphor counting sheep, and somebody
text me to go, you don't count to sheep, sleep
to sheep to get to sleep. And I was thinking
that there's someone who's taken me quite literally. But where
does that come from? And is there something about doing
something a bit mundane?
Speaker 5 (02:21):
It's repetitive mundane, and it's not a bad strategy, to
be honest. If it works for you, then great, so yeah,
doing things that are taking your mind off the fact
I can't sleep. I can't sleep, I can't sleep. So
counting sheeps, you know, see them going through the turnstile whatever,
and or you know, taking yourself on the holiday somewhere.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
It's funny. I was thinking I did try counting sheep.
I'm not sure if they'd be jumping through hoops over hedges.
They have to be doing something a little. They couldn't
just be there's a sheep.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
No, no, no, it has to be getting them in
for shearing or something, but something pretty boring.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Where does it come from that expression?
Speaker 5 (02:59):
I think probably exactly that it's a repetitive one two three,
there's a sheep nineteen twenty.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Well, I do have a producer who's very quick on
her research here while we've been talking, and she has
just messaged me saying that some scholars believe that the
saying originated centuries ago with sheepherders who couldn't sleep until
they had counted all of their sheep to make sure
none were missing. And that intuitively makes sense, doesn't it.
You're looking after a flock, you can't sleep until you've
(03:30):
counted the sheep. But maybe they never got to the
end of it, so like, okay, I'm just counting them.
The wolf would come in and go got he's started
to count the sheep. Just wait till you's asleep. Random thought.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
Very good.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
We want to know how you get to sleep. But
if you have a question around any problems with sleep,
whether you've got interrupted sleepy wake up in the middle
of the night, or you've got you know, you've got
problems on your mind, and how do you deal with
you know, certain changes that impact your life, I mean
having kids. Well that's actually I don't recall having problems
(04:07):
with sleep in terms of getting back to sleep. It
was just the fact that it was interrupted.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
But I guess yeah, interrupted to sleep with children, I
mean as they learn to sleep, because they have to
learn that process and being confident about it. You know,
when you're dealing with an eighteen month or two year old,
then it can be quite challenging. When they get to five, six,
seven age, they've got lots of melatonin. It's the golden
(04:32):
years of sleep. Generally sort of in that pre Puberdah
group is a really good sleepers generally, Oh you.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Just mentioned melatonin, so they have a lot of melitony. Yeah,
that may instantly, I thought, and there'll be people listening, going,
Does that mean I can take melatonin it will help
me help me sleep?
Speaker 5 (04:47):
No, it needs to be your melatonin in your brain,
not melotone and you take into your tummy.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
How disappointing. Well, I mean it does inhaling it.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
We do use it for asd adhd children who are
particularly hyper, and it can just calm them down. It's
a soper if you kids a calmer down rather than
a it's not a sleeping pill.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
By the way, it's worth pointing out, and this is
me stepping out somee remit really, but if you go
into a health food shop and they tell you that
they've got melatonin, it will be the homeopathic version, which
is donated one in one hundred times times thirty times.
So they delute it one one hundred and delute it,
then delute it and diluted, than delut it. It's not
me at thirty then delute it, then delut But so
it's not actually really melantonin.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
No, No, that's exactly right. You don't need very much,
but you know, very small amount, but it will all
to your circadian phase. In other words, the time when
you go to go to sleep and when you wake
up rather than being an actually sleeping pill.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Are people's sleep habits. I'm asking for my own point
of view because I do overnight talk, but just twice
a week. But I've noticed, because I've done had two
or three weeks not doing that, that on Wednesday and
Thursday nights or mornings Wednesday Thursday mornings when I would
normally be sleeping after an overnight, even though I haven't
done them, Almost like my body has got a weekly
(06:07):
clock that knows these two days because it's weird. Maybe
it's just what's the word psychosomatic or something, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
To a degree, it's going to be that I'm ensure
your body gets used to a certain rhythm and who knows.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
So the other question I had, and by the way,
you can call any time if you've got some questions
for Alex, because anything from sleep app now to well
the restless legs thing always crops up at some stage.
We've got any questions about getting a good night sleep,
then we want to hear from you. Or if you've
found something that works for you, then you share it
with us and we'll and we'll debunk it. I'm just kidding.
(06:46):
The other one I'm interested about is and again it
could just be the pacebo effect. That's the one I'm
looking for. I I'm so shallow on this. I was
watching Showgun, which is an amazing series, and they were
having a green tea ceremony and I thought I might
have some jasmine tea and I slipped like a log
(07:07):
jasmine t just and I was wondering, are there certain
substances that if you do drink them, that maybe do assist,
you know, like a hot glass glass of hot milk
or milk.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Milk has been the traditional one, and that's got the
ideas that it's got trip to fan in it, so
that converts eventually to five ourduty trip to fan. It's
five HTP you can buy over the counter. Then that
goes to five aducty trip to mean, which is serotonin,
and serotonin converts to melatonin. So in theory, taking milk
with trip to fan and it will help you go
to sleep because it increases your melatonin.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
The milk does have trip to fan and yes, okay,
so you don't need to add in too.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
No, no, it's got trips.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Okay, so just drink milk.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Well, but except that it takes probably several hours to
get through the system into creating brain melt. And it's
got to go into the gut. It goes first part
through the liver, then it goes into the bloodstream across
the blood brain barrier. You know, the best way into
your brain as far as melatonin is concerned, is through
the eyes. The eyes, it hits your retina.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
What does the light?
Speaker 5 (08:06):
The light hits your written It suppresses melotonin, gets rid
of melotonin.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Blue light, yes, blue light.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
Well outside light light. It starts producing serotonin. And we
know that blue green light is very you know, it's
good for producing this happy hormone if you like. And serotonin,
as I said, converts to melotonin. But it's all happening
in your brain rather than through your tummy and through
your bloodstream.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
And so just to clarify this for me, so when
I opened the curtains in the morning, and that's the daylight,
is it what kicks in? The blue light triggers.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
What it suppresses, melotonin, suppresses, gets rid of melatonin, it
starts to producing zerotone. But remember the indoor light is
pathetic compared to that door light. So indoor light you know,
in an office where we are now, is probably no
more than four or five hundred lucks in him, always
less than a thousand lucks indoors outside, even on a
cloudy day like it is today, it's going to be
(08:57):
something like forty to fifty thousand lucks. It's completely different outside,
and that's what our brains have been used to for
thousands of years, and the outside light has been blue
and green, so that's been a natural environment. So I
love blue green outside.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
And that wakes her up. But that serotonin during the
course of the day converts to malotonin, which happens light.
Got it. Oh, so unless you've said this before, So
the thing is when you get up, you should get
outside early on and get that serotonin kicked in because
that will also it's like an investment in the bank
from when you need to go to sleep.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
Absolutely, yeah, that's outside light. What our ancestors didn't have
was glare, So they didn't have chilchu buildings on concrete
slabs and time academus. They had trees and plants, and
so this intense light hits the earth and you're scattered
blue green. That wakes us up, makes us feel good
and then all that conversed. So when your mum said
to you many years ago, for example, your sleep light
(09:51):
in their tonight did because you've had lots of fresh air.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
You've heard the fresh air. It's not fresh air because
you've been outside. It's the light. So, for instance, my
daughter when she wakes up, if she's a little bit
tired and grumpy and she's open to curtains, she actually
can step out onto the deck of she open the door,
I should just say step outside for a minute or two,
and then maybe we'll get a slightly different atitude when
you come upstairs. No thing, okay, we want to hear
all your questions on sleep by the wait, sorry, just
(10:16):
quickly before we go to our call up. The jasmine
tea thing and anything.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
Probably not at least it's not caffeinated at least okay, Well.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Does tea have much caffeine and generally black tea?
Speaker 5 (10:28):
No, Well, a five minute brew of tea gum boot
tea is going to be about fifty milligrams of caffeine.
One hundred milligrams of caffeine is a no dose tablet,
so sort of linking it to that, about fifty milligrams
for five minute group. A good strong brew of tea,
dipping it out of a tea bay of an earl
gray tea bag is not going to be very much
(10:48):
at all.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Okay, And I keep on saying I'm going to the
break and take calls. But there's one follow up question.
You mentioned one hundred milligrams of caffeine, so a flat
white has about one hundred and twenty one hundred and forty,
So forget the no dose, just to go and have
a cup of coffee.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
Absolutely and espresso doubles show to expressed, it's going to
be about one hundred and twenty absolutely excellent.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
This is great stuff. We want your questions. Of course,
we've got plenty of texts coming in and totally what
Let's kick it off with the call Terry, Hello.
Speaker 7 (11:16):
Goody, how are you right? So I've got good So
I've been happy to be marriage for twenty five years
and my wife suddenly going through menopauses. It's affected to
asleep dramatically. So the side part, or the bad part
for me is that now my snoring has become an issue.
So first of all, I jumped on a snore app
(11:36):
snall lamb. I think it seems the most popular. Figured out, okay,
I am snoring and it is quite loud. So the
next thing to doing some research found out about the
jaw dropping, which apparently flocks up the airways. So I
looked online with this psora of massive amount of options
I could do. So there was all these mouth guards,
which I ordered one when I arrived. It's like having
(11:58):
two oranges in your mouth. So I have evern't tried that.
You know, I will try it, but I'm currently using
what's called a snoring which works on electromegas. I wunning
what your feedback for thoses, because it seems to be
that it's decreased by snoring. Has it stopped it all again?
But it certainly seems to decrease it over a two
week periods. So wondering is it psychological or is there
actually something with this hypropoint.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
To be honest, I've not come across as snoring. Where
do you wear it?
Speaker 7 (12:26):
You were on your little finger.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
I'm not sure. I really wouldn't know why that would work.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
So supposed to be it's got magnets on the two
sides that work with Yeah, I mean half the research
is it's rubbish? Half the research, Well, research it's online.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Sorry, right, okay, yeah, no, understood. Well, I mean I
can't see why it would work. I mean, the fact
that it's getting better is good news. That's fine. There's
no question that menopause does interrupt sleep, but it's it's
so your wife is, in other words, is much more
awake now than she perhaps was ten years ago. Well,
(13:07):
as far as you're concernered, yeah, I mean, if you
are doing the small lab app then if you're having
some severe or epic snoring, and I think at there
are two top levels, you've almost certainly got some sleep
happen here, So you almost certainly have some sleep apener
as well, and that would be worth checking out, and
(13:27):
we do certainly do some testing on that.
Speaker 7 (13:31):
Yeah, it seems to be about twenty five percent of
the time I'm asleep. It seems to be as soon
as I've fall asleep. It's not long after or before
I have to get up. Thanks to the times during
the middle, not too.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Bad, it seems to be, ok yeah, yeah, and it
will vary night by night, yeah, very a little bit
night by night. But you know, getting your snoring out
just for your own health is probably a good idea
and your wife might consider looking at her her menopause
or symptoms if she's getting a lot of flushing, particularly
which might be waking here in the middle of the night.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Hey, Terry, did you did you do? You know you're
not sleeping in the middle of the night, but did
you record? I missed that? But how do you know
it's just.
Speaker 8 (14:09):
Snoring through the.
Speaker 7 (14:15):
Yeah, you're basically plugging at your pone. Put it and
the records you during the night. And did you recording that?
You've got different points you're moving along and listen it
shows you a Graand.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Sorry, just dropping out there, mate, But I get it.
So I just messed that. But I guess because I
was thinking maybe that if he was being monitored by
his partner, but where he wasn't snoring was because she
had fallen asleep.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Now, the problem with small app as well, which is
an excellent app, which is a free app, is that
it will measure any noise. So if his wife is snoring,
for example, it will measure her snoring as well. So
we usually use that when people are sleeping by themselves.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Okay, well that intuitive makes sense.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Obviously it's measuring noise basically, so it doesn't matter where
they come from.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, continuous farting, it would probably pick up as well. Anyway,
we're going to take your calls. I eight one hundred
eighty ten eighty. Any questions about getting a good night's sleep,
or you've got young kids you won't sleep, or you
you intermittent sleeper problems, snoring, sleep ap near give us
a call. Alex Bartell, he's the owner of sleep Well Clinic,
is with us. It is twenty two minutes past four
(15:27):
and news talk to you b I eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. In the summer time, when a well who
is high you.
Speaker 9 (15:35):
Can change find now benders this guy.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
When the weather's fine, you go, women, you go, women
on your mind, average drink cabageob.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
And welcome back.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
Well.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
That song is sort of about some sunlight, which is
how you get the serotonin cracking which gives you the
melotone later on, as we understand from my guest Alex Bartle,
owner of a sleepwealth clinic. Alex, just before we go
to our callers, you thought you might enjoy this text.
My husband has a sea pap machine, which as we know,
it's for sleep up now and sleeps very peacefully. But
apparently I wake them up now because I grind my teeth.
(16:08):
What would cause that.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Or tooth grinding? There are a number of issues there,
of course. One of course, it tends to be worse
when you're stressed. It tends to be perhaps it tends
to be a bit of familial. But it's also worse
with sleep apnea. So actually treating sleep apnea will actually
often help this bruxism or teeth grinding. But otherwise your
dentist will provide you with a grinding plate.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
We also had a question from someone about that if
you have sleep problems as it covered by health insurance.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Not all Southern Cross does n IB That doesn't.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Depends on your cover doesn't.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
It doesn't at all. Southern Cross does variably depend on
what level you've got.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Okay, so check it out. If you do want to
get some treatment and you're worried about the cost of
it and you've got health insurance, it.
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Gives a ring because the clinic can always check it
out for you if you're not sure.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Good stuff, Yeah, excellent, right, let's carry on leus.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
Hello you, good afternoon guys.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
My son and daughter and I've got two children, a
daughter of five, and a half and the granddaughter grandson
of three and a half. Now, the grandson is not
sleeping past five five point thirty every morning, so come
the end of the week, everybody's just absolutely wrecked. He
goes to bed at a regular time, he's eating like
(17:28):
every meals, the last supper. Just don't know how we
can stretch in that extra hour hour on the quarter
in the morning.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
I'm not sure that I can help you there, because
waking time is pretty biologically driven in pre puberty in
that young age group. And even if he went to
bed at I went to sleep at midnight, he'd probably
still wake at five point thirty. Yeah, yeah, And when
he becomes a teenager then he'll start sleeping in probably,
(17:58):
But at this stage it doesn't matter what time they
go to bed, they tend to wake up much the
same time. I guess keeping the room as dark as
you can to try and keep his sleep going as
long as you can would be the only thing I
can suggest. Presumably he's getting enough sleep by the sound
of it, he sleeps well.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Hey, lis is he in his own room?
Speaker 8 (18:21):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (18:21):
He is.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
I just remember with our daughters that what might not
have been five thirty, but once they got you say, three,
about three or four years old.
Speaker 10 (18:30):
Is he?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, he'll be He'll be four next March, so it's
probably three and a half.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I mean. The only thing this is not this is
outside of the sleep doctor sort of thing, but the
only thing. We had a daughter who used to wake
up a little bit earlier, and we just said, you know,
she knews how to read the time, and we'd just
be like, you know, we choose a book before she
went to bed, and if you wake up at this time,
you are to read the book until x o'clock and
then we'll come and see you. I don't know if
(18:58):
that helps.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
They've got him.
Speaker 11 (19:00):
They've got both him and his sister a clock because
his sister used to do that but not so and
when it goes a certain color, that's when you get up,
and they've sort of got that shit for like a
quarter past six. But yeah, he's just he's just waking
up when the sun the yellow.
Speaker 7 (19:15):
I mean, if he lives to be a teenager, then
he's gonna he's.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Going to capitalize on his sleep.
Speaker 11 (19:20):
But yeah, I suppose that's just his body clock.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Yeah, it is his body clock. But I think that
what Tim has suggested is actually not a bad idea,
you know, having this clock and as you've already decided,
so that when he you know, say when he when
the eyes go blue or whatever it is, then they
can get up, so at least they're not disturbing the
rest of the family.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yeah, I think, I mean, you've got to it's got
to be worth trying anyway. Hey, thanks for your call.
Speaker 11 (19:41):
Good, thank you.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Yeah, I mean we did do we say? Look, if
you do wake up, darling, then then you need to
know that unless you want a grumpy mummy and daddy,
then you stay in bed and here are a couple
of books you can read. And once the clock turns
this you can come and give us a big bag.
And I think that sort of works, all works now
that they're a bit older, But I don't mind sleeping
when they're a bit older. Right, that's top past to fall.
(20:08):
Let's go to Doug. Hello.
Speaker 10 (20:10):
Hi, I'm a blind person and i don't sleep very
well and I've been diagnosed with sleep apnea. In fact,
I was waking thirty three times in the hour. The
machine is okay, but very uncomfortable with the mask and
(20:31):
tossing and turning all night. I've just recently had a
hip replacement, so I'm tossing and turning. Now. What I've
done is I talked to the doctor, and the doctors
suggested that I take a sleeping tablet, a Larrazapan, but
only every third night. So every night that I'm not
(20:54):
sleeping properly is a pain in the provovel. However, I've
been listening to I've tried everything. I've been listening to
music sleep music and ask them to play it for
an air on Google and so that's helped. But I
(21:15):
still wake up in the off nights where I can't
sleep feeling terrible. And as a blind person, you can't
sort of sit out in the sun very often because
you can't get that melatonin.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Any other suggestions, well, depends blindness, and I'm not sure
how severe your blindness is, but blindness is a loss
of things called rods and cones, which are in the
retinas that produce the idea. But these retinal ganglion cells
can still be preserved despite that, so spending time outside,
unless you've had a nucleation or the eyes being completely removed,
(21:53):
you may still have that light dark sensitivity without realizing it. However, otherwise,
we do use melatonin at night and that sometimes can
help to produce some melatonin taken a good hour or
two before you want to go to sleep. Good little
all to the sleep phase a little bit as far
as the mask is concerned, And if you've got severe
(22:16):
sleep hapenar, which you have going back to the person
who diagnosed the sleep happenar for you, and you need
to adjust the mask, you need to get a mask
that fits comfortably. I think that's another thing you could do,
because most masks you can find a mask that fits
in the end, so that needs to be changed a
(22:36):
little bit. But certainly a bit of melotone in the
morning sorry at nighttime should be helpful. And possibly there
may still be some light dark sensitive cells in your
eyes depending on the day.
Speaker 10 (22:49):
I get very very very sore eyes with glear and
outside and I've got a weirds all.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Right read pigment Okay, wow, yes.
Speaker 10 (23:02):
Okay, so there is an issue. Yeah, but the sleeping
of course makes me very grumpy.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Yes, yes, I.
Speaker 10 (23:12):
Live alone and so there's no issue there. But it's
the continual thinking, thinking, overthinking.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Thinking, Yeah, what use saying yeah no.
Speaker 10 (23:24):
Oh absolutely yeah. But the melotone, and I did try once,
but it didn't seem to help me because I'm on
twenty three other medications as well.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Yeah, okay, you know, just another one. Yes, I mean
melatonin generally, isn't it of course a sleeping pillar? Know
would we expect to take it melotone and go to sleep? Well,
there won't work like that.
Speaker 10 (23:48):
Well, I just had listening to the children with those
things that tell you when to get up and go
to the head and so on. My grandson had a
problem and all he did was pull switch it off
at the wall.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
So right, well he may have grumpy appearance in that case.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yeah, they see, thanks for thank you, thanks for quick
just a quick text HEREM and my olderly mother has
chronic consomner has slipped for three or four hours. Haven't
slipped from one three or four hours a night for years.
Sleep clinics where you just have a consultation and get
some ideas haven't helped. Are there sleep clinics in New
Zealand the laboratory based in other words, where you can
stay over night and be fully investigated.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
The answer is no, not really, There's very few people
who actually investigate in do overnight sleep studies on insomnia.
The thinking in the past has always been, of course,
if you can't sleep, why do you want to do
an overnight sleep study when you're not going to when
you're going to be awake all night.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Well it's a sleep study and lack of sleep study,
I guess.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
So people are just lying there. All that would do
is confirm the fact that you're not sleeping very much.
Now they have more recently done studies on people within
within somnia, which has been happening now for the last
sort of ten to fifty years, just occasionally. What they
found is that people asleep probably more than they think
they are, and so it may it may well be
(25:15):
that you're actually sleeping a little bit more than the
three or four hours you're getting. But otherwise it's behavioral
stuff that actually makes the difference in the ind So
it is talk therapy. It's what you need to be
doing rather than what you need to be taking. That's important.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
A lot of the stuff that you've actually seen on
the shows rubbed off on me because there's a few
times where I've known, you know, when people think, oh,
it's been awake all night, and you realize, how on
was I really because you sort of you might be awaken.
I can't sleep and the cat sleep. Then you actually
will drift off for an hour and then you'll sort
of come to slowly and assume that you haven't slept
at all. You don't sometimes know if you've been asleep.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Yeah, there's a thing called sleep state misperception, which we
talk about. In other words, we think we've been awake
all night, whereas in fact we've been drifting out of
sleep and we don't know that. We know when we're awake,
but we don't know when we're asleep. By definition, we're asleep.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Another quick one before we go to the break, and
we've got some calls lined up, so we'll get on
to you very quickly if you're waiting. Just that question
about if you wake up and you are annoyed about
waking up. I think your advice was do not look
at your clock, right, And I'm about fifty fifty. Sometimes
I don't and sometimes I do. Yeah, and I think
(26:22):
I've settled on just don't look at the clock. Yeah,
unless you're convinced it's time to get up.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
Yes, I mean, if it's still, if it's dark and
it's the lights, you know, the night of the dawn
hasn't broken, then looking at the clock really doesn't help.
It should you should be asleep, so go back to sleep.
And the alarm hasn't gone off, so go back to sleep.
It's just that looking at the clock. For many people,
it alerts you, Oh, no, it's two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
I'm awake.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Here we go again. Then you look at the clock
now it's two thirty. Oh I'm still awake. Well you
don't know that. All you know is you looked at
the clock at two and you looked at it two thirty.
What happened between time? You may have drifted off for
twenty minutes, but you can compute that I've been awake
for half now. But if you think had been awake,
then we often say get out of bed. Often we
(27:09):
suggest only fifteen minutes now, just reset back into bed.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
I think the other thing is that never look at
your phone if that's your clock, because that's not true.
I've got a watch. I can sometimes flicker and go,
oh goodye, I've still got two and a half hours.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
That's good, that's fine. If that works like that, and
I do that as well, I can see the time
in the middle of the night doesn't bother me. I
just say, oh great, I've got another hour or two.
That's why I go b Actually.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
They are at seven o'clock. You're like, what I've gotta
get up? Okay, right, let's say we'll take a break.
We'll be back with more calls in just a moment.
News Talks. He'd be my guest is Alex Bartell. He's
the owner of sleep Well Clinic. Website is Alex sleep Well, sleep.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
Welld clinic dot co.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Do excellent, We'll be back and just sick. This is
News Talks. Be twenty two minutes to five. Everybody was
going five the fastest slap.
Speaker 8 (28:00):
In fact, it fat.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
And as you know, we like to tie our music
into our theme. And I was thinking, what does kung
fu fighting have to do with sleep? And as might
produce a tie tells me it's because exercise is good
during the day. To I'll you sleep and Alex Bartle
would concur with that. When you Alex, I would indeed, right,
let's take some more Coughse's lots of text and we
have to try and move with the bit of pace.
Lots of people wanted to talk them and engage with
(28:24):
the show.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Lola, Hello, Yes, good afternoon.
Speaker 6 (28:29):
Go rang up a short time ago and said his
three year old woke up at five o'clock in the morning.
I had one of those, and he still like it.
He daybreaks and he's away. When I put curtains up
in their room and he ripped them down, and he
was like a bear with a saw toe all day.
(28:50):
And so when he was a baby, if we had
capped key by five o'clock, otherwise he'd be going to
sleep and he wouldn't eat, and so, and he still
like it. Today, goes to bed eight thirty at night
and he's up five o'clock in the morning. He's done
the days before everybody gets up. And when he was young, well,
(29:13):
when he was eight or nine, seven, seven or eight,
he raided the fridge before everybody got up. He had
what he wanted and we got what's the leftovers. And
so it's mainly a change. But the only suggestion I
can make is to put the blacker room out, and
if he gets angry, you'd.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Have to not do it and put up with it.
How old he's.
Speaker 7 (29:43):
Fifty, I think somewhere around there.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
He's what they call a morning chronotype. So the different.
He's a morning person, he's a lark, and if he's
getting enough sleep, good on him. That's fine. I don't
know that shouldn't really worry people at all. Sounds like
he gets enough sleep anywhere, which is great.
Speaker 6 (30:03):
Oh he's a very had ricker as well. He's an inventory.
He does all kinds of things.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
And yeah, thanks, I was waiting for I thought she
jokingly she was going to say thirty or forty. Exceeded
my expectations on that, right, let's more calls Mike Haigh.
Speaker 8 (30:21):
Good, I, how are you guys?
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Very good?
Speaker 8 (30:24):
I've got a simple one. How do you turn your
brain off? I get through to about midnight lying bed.
I can't switch the brain off. I tried it is
it Acmr? You listen to things on the radio with
the monotone, and you know that'll go for an hour
and I'll still be lying there thinking about what have
I got to do the next day or what haven't
I done? How do you switch it off?
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Well, I mean there are obviously relaxation strategies that people use,
but what two things that I call quite like using.
One is journaling. So spend a bit of time writing
stuff down that's going on around and around in your
head at night. So there'll be certain things that you're
perhaps on your mind. If you're writing it, externalizing it,
(31:05):
we call it. So it's writing stuff down, it's putting
it out there, but onto a piece of paper. When
you've done that, you can throw it away. But it's
actually the externalizing, it's the writing stuff down that's helpful.
The second thing is actually writing a plan for the
next day, so you actually before you go to bed,
you can write down exactly what you have in mind
for tomorrow. So when you wake in the middle of
the night and think, oh what was that time? What
(31:26):
a email I've got to do? Or what meeting is
it that? Oh no, I've got it written down, So
you've actually taken some action to deal with those problems
that are buzzing around in your head in the middle
of the night.
Speaker 8 (31:37):
What time do you go to bed, well, midnine, have
about twelve.
Speaker 5 (31:42):
Yeah, so you're a night you're a night owl as well.
So writing stuff down a good hour before you go
to bed, Writing down emotional stuff that you can throw
away and a bit of a plan for the next
day is often a good idea. But learning you know
breathing techniques. A bit of exercise stretching is good idea.
Not vigorous exercise, but a bit of stretching is okay
(32:04):
as well.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
You read Mike.
Speaker 8 (32:07):
The Toddlers once. If I if I get a book,
I like, yeah, i'd I just don't put it down.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
See if I get a book that I really like,
it doesn't matter that I've read half a chapter, I'm like, yeah,
you don't like read someone's really boring autobiography. We'll take
suggestions on that. What's the most boring book you've ever ready?
Thanks Mike, there's like, well, okay, thank you. I actually
(32:37):
found that it wasn't because it was boring, but I
got it. When I was in my theatrical career. I
was I was learning some monologues, and I read a
bit of I was reading a bit of Shakespeare. So
I decided to read Romeo and Juliet and Macbeth. And
actually I loved reading them. But because you'd be flicking
to the back, because the meaning sometimes the pros is
something where you sort of there's other levels to it,
and you'd s flick to the back to say, or
(32:58):
what else, what's the significance of this? And I must
say I'd read half a half of you know, just
two or three pages, and I'd enjoy it, but then
I'd suddenly be like, wow, I feel really tired. I
put the bed down and boom, I'm gone, Yeah, drive
it to Shakespeare.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Good idea, how is that?
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Let me check the time. Let's go to Wendy.
Speaker 8 (33:17):
Hello, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 5 (33:19):
Oh Wendy?
Speaker 6 (33:20):
Good?
Speaker 4 (33:20):
Thanks?
Speaker 10 (33:21):
Hi.
Speaker 9 (33:22):
I was interested to hear some callers about children that
wake up to really when my little boy was about
two and a half, he used to get out of
bed till about eleven o'clock at night, and I would
march him down the hall, go and sit down, and
then five minutes later i'd hear him trotting out again.
(33:42):
So he didn't get to sleep to about eleven, and
he woke ready to start the day at five am,
which as appearance, is very retiring. So what I did
was I sit an alarm in his room, and I
woke him at quarter to five, and we woke him
at quarter to five for about a week, and then
we slowly worked around the clock until the alarm was waking.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
And given very very good idea. The timepiece that is
the trigger for his brain to say, turned to wake up,
and his brain sort of half.
Speaker 9 (34:15):
Waiting for it, rather than him waking on his own
little body clock, which was too early for me. Yeah,
he was woken and got used to this and that.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
Yeah, it was a large farther good thinking, very clever,
and that's good thinking. And the I might even use
that myself.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
That's quite good. So you basically take him relying off
his own body clock and get him used to the
fact that all the alarm is going to wake me,
and then so he becomes less reliant intuitively on his
own body clock and more reliant on something else.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Yeah, an external stimulus alarm going off.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Yeah, I guess one of what it was like. But
I always think of what it was like for us
when we were before technology, when we're all farming folk
and the rooster was making us up. Sometimes you probably
just have rooster for dinner that night.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
Yeah, you just spent most of the day outside, which
of course makes a huge difference to sleep.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
What times are roosters crow?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (35:08):
Literally? They just the hint, the barest hint of light,
and they're they're going seat.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
That's probably right to the hell with daylight.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Screw having a rooster too.
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Ah.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
Anyway, Hey, look we'll be back in just a moment.
This is news talk, said b. It is eleven minutes
to five, and welcome back to the Week and Collective.
My guest is Alex at Bartle. He's the owner of
(35:41):
sleep Well Clinic. Let's sleep Well Clinic dot code on
it or is it just sleep well dot cod inza
sleep Well Clinic? And I said, what was that sleep
world clindic Actually just something we were talking about in
the break and somebody's texted on exactly the same topic.
I'm forty seven. I love a little afternoon siestra on
the couch for say an hour. Interesting your thoughts on
s esters.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
Yeah, it's it's pretty common. The first thing I'd say
is if you needing an afternoon nap, there's often something
wrong with your date, your nighttime sleep because you're needing it.
But that depends what age you are. I think once
you pass sort of sixty, having an afternoon nap if
for you not sleeping so well, that's not such a
bad thing. Keep it early, so if you nap after
(36:24):
about three pm, it's likely to impact on your ability
to get to sleep. So napping a little bit earlier
in the afternoon is a better idea. Keeping it relatively short.
The actual sleep time of twenty minutes or less is
what's recommended, which means you don't go into a deeper sleep,
which means you can wake up much more refreshed.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Okay, or I'll throw a few texts. How long do
you need to be outside to get that serotonin cracking
shaft the meltoniou syst.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
The recommended minimum is about half an hour?
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Okay? Is there any problem with taking magnesium sleep on
a regular basis? S is Tom.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
There's Studies with magnesium are fairly variable. One of the
major studies was done on elderly folk who made easium
deficient and it did seem to help them a little bit.
But really it's not that impressive except that it's got
sleep on the bottle, and that might work. That's a
pretty powerful trigger for our brain to say, oh, I've
(37:20):
taken something for sleep. I can probably get to sleep.
That placebo response. It's not being silly, it actually does.
It's really quite a powerful incentive. It is for pain
and it is for sleep.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
If I wake after oh this is my favor this one.
If I wake after midnight. I listened to zb that
tends to put me to sleep unless it's tim because interesting.
I just read that one out, because why wouldn't I.
This is a funny one, just on the noises in
the night. I have a grandfather clock that charms every hour,
never wakes me. Friends can't believe it, but I understand
(37:52):
your brain. Brain soon works out sounds that are okay
and not to wake you. Is that true?
Speaker 5 (37:58):
Yes, I think your brain has got used to it,
and so you will be hearing it, but you'll be
ignoring it. I mean, I think it's probably it will
go in, but it won't be getting you in.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
That must be how people who live in busy metropolitan
cities in apartments sleep because there's a certain bus and
tram and tooting sounds that you know.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
It's it's that, it's the tooting, it's the police car
going down and the fires to that will wake you.
The general background hum is quite soporific, it's quite sleep inducing,
but it's the big sounds.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Well, you've just raised that other one about people who
have the white noise for kids and crashing waves and stuff.
Is there? What what do we know?
Speaker 5 (38:41):
I think that's a good idea. It just blats out
other noises in lots of ways. So if you've got
to raise this background ambient sound with white noise, you
soon tune that out. But it does mean that you
don't hear any clicking creaking floorboards, or any little sounds
that are going on doors clicking in that sort of
thing that's going to wake you up.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
Get a I buy a ten mel bottle of lavender oil,
Tip it into a five hundred MILS spray bottle with
a drop of detergent to disperse the oil. Of course
this is detailed. Spray it onto my pillow. Great, but
then I play a play a replay of Parliament's debate.
Send anyone into the land of not so no a
little bit of lavender on your pillow and listening to
(39:23):
the latest hits of Parliament.
Speaker 6 (39:25):
Right.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
I mean, lavender has always been historically the thing that
helps people sleep. But they've done studies with lavender and
with jasmine and it worked or didn't work in just
the same sort of way. So it wasn't that massively helpful.
But if it worked for you, brilliant.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Gosh, time flies when you're having fun. I had none
of you have fallen asleep listening to the mellifluous tones
of Alex Bartell. But hey Alex, thanks so much for
coming in and we'll hold you again. But sleep well.
Clinic dot co dot nz thanks to him. And if
you've missed any of this hour and you've got problems
with sleep, go and listen to the podcast and great
suggestions and information on it and you know in the end,
(40:01):
just don't worry, be happy and off you go. We'll
be bad in just a moment with smart Money. This
is News Talks. It'd be.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
I Wanna Be next To?
Speaker 7 (40:20):
I Wanna be next to?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
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