August 31, 2025 • 40 mins
Society has become increasingly encouraging of people to check in on their mates, but what is the clear line between needing a catch up with a friend, and needing to speak with someone more qualified?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I need somebody, not just.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
You know, I need someone.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So much?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Is anywhere.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Down these days?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Self loves Healthy.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
If you can feeling yes, welcome in or welcome back
to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage. By the way,
we love your court, not by the way I mean
first things first, we'd love your calls. I weight one
hundred eighty ten eighty text nine to nine two. This
is the health Hub and we're going to have a
chat about when to and this might be for you
(01:01):
as well.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
But the way I had.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Initially thought of this conversation was often, you know, friends
talk to friends when you're down to the dumps. And
I actually was remembering that line. There's a line in him.
Oh God, this dates me, doesn't it? A line in
a movie called Crocodile Dundee, which to some of the
younger mean listeners they well, you might have heard of it,
and it's about a sort of outback guy goes to
New York and there's a line where the woman who
(01:26):
becomes his love interest talks about how someone is seeing
a therapist or something, and he goes what's that? And
we'll sit there a bit down in the dumps and
he says, well, haven't they got any mates? And it's
that sort of down to earth sort of thing. Well,
do you need to go and see a therapist just
as a matter of lifestyle when you maybe should have
some friends to talk to? But I thought of that line.
I thought, well, actually there is a line where maybe
(01:50):
you are that friend who's been sought out to support
another friend.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
And when do you.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Recognize and how do you recognize that? Actually, you know what,
I think I need to try and push my friend
towards getting some professional help. And look, not an easy issue,
and of course we all need friends to talk to,
and maybe that is a good first protocoll but when,
what and under what circumstances should you actually go? Well,
(02:15):
you know what, you know, I'm here for you any time,
but I really want you to seek some further help.
So we're going to talk about that with Well, he's
no stranger to the show. Orton News Talk said be
and he is a psychotherapist. Funny thing is I wonder
how he got this website because his website is psychotherapy
dot in Z and Carle McDonald I think you must
(02:37):
have gotten first for that one, didn't you.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
Yeah, it's just quick off the blocks.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Well, I mean, because you didn't have to put initials
in front of her or a psychopotherapy one two threa,
it's just psychotherapy dot zasy to find.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
So I'm not.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Sure how good, bad, or average my introduction was. But
there will be time, isn't for many people when they've
got a friend who's sought them out and you might
be a relationship breakup or anything, or somebody's just a
bit down. You spending time and you catch up for coffee,
and there are there signals where the friend who is
(03:12):
the count's salor, if I can use it in that expression,
should recognize that maybe something else there needs to be
some other I don't want to use word intervention. You
might find a better word for me semantically, but yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
No, intervention is a good way to put it. I mean,
I think the first and obvious one should be, you know,
sort of easy for anyone to figure out in a way,
which is that if you're worried about your friend's safety,
if you're worried that they might be suicidal, or that
they're preps out of control in some other way making
bad choices in their life around alcohol or drug use.
Then that's certainly a time to suggest that they may
(03:45):
want to speak to someone professionally, because I think, first
of all, we shouldn't as a friend be left with
the worry about that, right like that, that's an important one,
But beyond that, I mean, I think it comes down
to preps zooming out a little bit and sort of saying, well,
what's the difference between life stresses, life worries, kind of
ordinary ups and downs versus something that may be more
(04:07):
psychiatric or mental health related.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Well, I think that that's where it gets tricky, because
it can be ordinary day to day life that can
really start to grind people down. Or the problems or
whatever they're expressing may relate to the problems that we
all have absolutely and yet for them they're just not coping.
And I don't know if that would be It's like
(04:32):
a breakup. How many people in the breakup they look,
I'm never going to meet another person like her. I
just only I don't feel like living. I just feel
that the sun rose and set with her, and now
it's no longer there. I don't know what the point
of life is and all that. I mean, there would
be plenty of people who actually weren't in a self
harm mode who would say that stuff because it's the
(04:53):
language of despair and heartbreak as well.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
And in fact, that's actually a pretty good example because
it might be fine to feel like that for a
few weeks, maybe even for a few months, but if
someone's still feeling like that, you know, more like a
year or beyond, then they're stuck. And so that's kind
of the first thing to think about is is the
person seeking support actually kind of stuck with something that
actually the talking that they're doing, the support that they're getting,
(05:18):
isn't actually helping.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Them move through that experience.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
And the second thing I think to keep in mind
is is it causing problems in their life? So it
being how they feel? Because you know, what we tend
to look for when we're trying to understand is this
normal life coping or is this actually developing into something more?
Is is it hampering the person's ability to live, love,
or work? So is it getting in the way of
(05:41):
them doing their normal enjoyable activities, getting out and about
doing those social things. Is it interfering with their relationships
in some way or is it interfering with their work,
And if it's, if it's starting to cause problems in
those areas, then we're starting to head more towards perhaps
a diagnosis of something like depression or anxiety, or a
grief that's kind of gotten stuck in some way.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
By the way, I always feel that you need to
cover this off because if we are talking about people
being I don't want to I don't like the euphemisms
I use, but I'm using the way I speak about
being down in the dumps. But if you are really struggling,
and you are having some very negative thoughts about the
way you you your own life and things like that,
(06:23):
then please there is a I always like to highlight
the one seven three seven service. You can either call
it one seven three seven. It sounds way too easy.
You can text it. The number is just one seven
three seven. I mean you can fill in a few
gaps on that one too, can't you come?
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Yeah, they're all professionally trained counselors and not only will
they be able to call or texture back, but they
may be able to connect job with some services in
your area or make a recommendation for counseling too.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
What if a person, Yeah, what if a person?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Actually, I got to say it's I think it gup's
to all sorts of initiative mental health. I just think
the one seven three seven thing is to me, it
seems so good because it's such an easy reference point
and it's so simple. You don't there's not just one
method of contact.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
You did exactly what we do do on the Nutters Club,
as we actually explained, it is a real number, even
though it's only four numbers.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Actually it's funny, isn't it, because it's not eight hundred something.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
No, it's just four numbers.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
But of course people in this station know that you
can literally just text nine two nine two, so they'll
be up with the four digits through although you can't
call nine two nine two. Well, I've never tried that one.
Maybe we'll try break.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
What about look?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And I've known at times when people have been ahead
of the issue what they thought to so the friend
who's count providing the shoulder to cry on has actually
spoken to the person about whether they need some sort
of further counseling, and that sometimes ended the relationship. I mean,
(07:54):
how do you manage that? Do you need permission of
the person who's down of the dumps that look, I
really think you need some further help or you know,
and how do you manage that side of things?
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Well, you know, I guess it's possible people might get
defensive about that right, or may hear the wrong thing.
But I would hope these days that there'd be a
greater acceptance of the role of counseling and therapy in
people's lives. And actually, I think often it's about just
sort of letting the person know that you're concerned about them.
Actually that you're not saying that you think they're nuts,
You're not saying that you think they think they need
(08:26):
professional help in all caps. You're actually saying, look, I'm concerned.
You know, we've been talking about this for a little while.
You seem really stuck, and you also seem really unhappy,
And you know, maybe even make a suggestion of some
people that they could talk to or offer to go
along to them to the first appointment with them. That
can often be a really helpful thing, because getting to
that first appointment is often really hard. Now you don't
(08:48):
have to come into the room, but actually just going
along and sitting in the waiting room and sort of
you know, not making sure that they get there, but
actually supporting them to get there, because that first step
is often.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
The hardest step.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
How hard is it for people to realize themselves that
they need counseling, Because there'll be some people who, I mean,
for some people who feel a bit down, they just
want to go and talk to someone there that you know,
they don't mind, it's part of their life, or that
every now and again they get a check up, much
the same way they might go to their GP. They're
going and have a few sessions to talk through things.
But they're the people at the other end of the
(09:18):
scale who would never consider that there's anything wrong. I mean,
how how how do we go about navigating that space?
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Well, you're right, I mean a lot of people just
actually just decide that that's what they need. Right And
in many ways, the answer to the question of how
do you know, it's kind of where you just feel
like you need to talk and actually maybe there isn't
enough talking that can be done with friends if you're
really struggling. I mean, I think the thing to consider
is that you know, to find out a little bit
more information about what therapy actually is. So one of
(09:48):
the ways that people can struggle to get along and
talk is they may feel ashamed or embarrassed. You know,
they may feel worried that the therapist is going to
act in some way or so you know, call the
mental health crisis team or.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
So you know, the reality is that therapists experience. Therapists
and counselors have kind of heard it all. That's the job.
So you know, you don't need to feel embarrassed about
whatever's going on in your head. The odds are we've
heard it or some version of it, and we know
how to help you with it. And the other thing
I think too is often people can hit a point
(10:25):
in their life where maybe they feel like they've been
running or trying to sort of keep a lid on
things from the past, whether that be things that happened
in childhood and their family, you know, maybe experiences at
school that shape them in some way, whether it be
abuse or bullying or that just kind of come up.
And you know, there's no real sort of neat and
tidy answers to why that happens. But it's really common
(10:48):
experience that people might come to therapy in their thirties
or forties because they kind of feel like that traum
was caught up with them in some way and they're
kind of a bit stuck on it, or they've been
sort of triggered into it and can't stop thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
How long does it take people to get to open
up in a session? I mean, what's the sort of
what are examples non specifically, I guess, but what's your
experience been on how long it takes?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Well?
Speaker 5 (11:10):
I mean, I think if it's a good match, and
that's another really important part of this process, if you
sort of sit down and you feel like, like any
human relationship, you feel like you're talking to the right person.
It's not uncommon for me to hear at the end
of the first session, or perhaps the beginning of the
second session, oh look, sorry, I feel like I just
sort of dumped all the stuff on you. All I
did was talk last time. I'm like, no, no, that's
(11:31):
what happens. And so you know, my personal practice is
the first session is the only session that I actually
take notes in the session, because often what happens is
so much information comes out once people just need to talk,
and they've often been holding it in for quite some time.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
How much of a stigma is there then around because
that would be one of the breaks on people thinking
they need help. It's like, oh, there's nothing wrong with me,
you know, it's fine. I mean, how much of a
stigma do you think we still have in society around
mental health?
Speaker 5 (12:01):
Well, I actually think we've come a long way. I mean,
you know, the The Nuice Club is, you know, over
fifteen years old.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I mean it's when I heard the name of the
show the first time, I thought, oh gosh, that's a
that's an interesting I mean, it's playing on the stereotype,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
I mean we like to think of it as reclaiming
the term. But you know, when Mike King first started
the show, there was a lot of anxiety and panic
about actually talking about these things openly, certainly talking about
suicide openly. Fast forward now to fifteen years, and I
think people are really well acquainted. You only have to
sort of look at the number of podcasts there are
out there now where people, you know, whether it be
(12:39):
famous people or everyday people want to talk about their
life stories. So I think there's a lot more understanding
that we struggle and that it's normal to struggle. I
think it's when it comes down to the individual level.
I think if you're really struggling to get help, then
actually it might be that's the thing you need help with,
because I think you know you asked before, what do
you do if someone gets really defensive? Well, none of
(12:59):
us can cope on our own. We all need help,
whether that be a community of mates, or supportive partner
or a therapist. We all actually need to be able
to unburden ourselves sometimes. And if the ideas or the
beliefs you've got on your mind is I just have
to cope. The odds are that's probably causing your.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Problems how much?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I mean, do we have more Where are we out
on the sort of stats side of people having mental
health issues that need to be resolved, Because I just
have the sense that we're through the COVID years and
now coming out of it and stuff, I'm not sure
if we are as connected with each other as we
might have been ten, fifteen, twenty thirty years ago, which
would then lead me to the conclusion that maybe we've
(13:38):
got a bit more to deal with the when it
comes to mental health.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, the if you
like the serious mental health end of the spectrum. So
your psychotic disorders bipole are serious mood disorders. They seem
to be pretty stable. So you know, the percentage of
those is around about one percentage. So I haven't got
the numbers to hand, but it's around about one percent
and it doesn't tend to change very much.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
What we know.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
That's a hard wiring sort of thing. Bipolar, isn't. I mean,
it's not in part where someone was mean to you
and therefore you've become I mean, there are coursative versus
what sort of as I say, hardwired for being one
of a better.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Expression genetics plus some kind of trauma. But you lean
down the genetics side. What does seem to have changed
since COVID and whether it's because of COVID or other
sort of modern life factors, is anxiety is on the
rise generally speaking in the Western world. You know, you
look at some of the headlines that might be quite understandable.
(14:37):
But what's interesting is that goes alongside that, is that
the people reporting experiences of loneliness is also on the rise.
You know, whether that's due to spending more time literally
on your own or experiencing less human to human connection
in day to day life.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
It's funny because you can have a lot of human
contact and still be incredibly lonely because of the type
of connection you have with the people around you.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Absolutely, and I think what you know, what we're seeing,
of course, a lot with modern life these days is
we know that avoiding human contact is something that we
do when we're distressed. It's kind of natural human behavior.
It's much easier to live a life in that way.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Now, though, can I mean, how much can you deal
with your own anxiety or how much can a friend
help you with anxiety? Because it feels like obviously self
harm and suicide that you know, they're big questions and
I don't think you want to be just I'm going
to talk to a mate about it to make me
feel self feel better.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
But how much can.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
The average mate, friend, Powell, you know, buddy do for
someone who's anxious.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
Well, again, it comes down to whether we're talking about
something that we might think of as clinical and diagnosable
or whether it's every day.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
What's the difference between everyday anxiety and clinical.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Well, I think diagnosed.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
I think people who experience anxiety as a feeling because
it is a feeling not necessarily a disorder. Ye will
know what it is that they feel anxious about. They
might have a particular worry, whether it's a performance review
at work, or you know, a relationship that's sort of
struggling in some way, versus actually an overwhelming sense of
anxiety that it's hard to locate or understand the reasons
(16:13):
for it. And so I think that's often another good flag.
If someone's really having strong feelings but they don't necessarily
know why, that's a really good time to talk to
your GP and or a therapist.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Okay, we'd love your calls on this as well. But
if you whether you've got just a question of your
own for Kyle and you want to run something by them,
But also, would you know when a friend who's sought
you out for some advice might need some help beyond
the advice that you can give them. When do you
think they would you recognize that, and how would you
(16:46):
steer them towards that advice?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Give us a call eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Of course, if you've got any problems or any questions
you've got for Carl MacDonald, then give us a call
on eight hundred eighty ten eighty in text, of course,
nine two nine two would be back in just a moment.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
It's twenty three and a half past four.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yes, News Talks, it'd be I'm with Carl MacDonald. We're
talking about mental health and also would you know when
a friend of yours maybe needs some other form of
help apart from your friendship.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
But also when would you be able to recognize it.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
In yourself that you might need some help beyond seeking
out a friend. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty Phil, Hello.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Oh Okody, how are you good?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Thanks?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Excellent? Yeah, I think I would be able to recognize
when a friend needed help or some stores that they
might need more than just your help as a friend,
and they need professional help because I've been seeing a
psychologist for seven years now, so I've got a bit
of skin in the game, so to speak.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah, you know what to expect.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, I don't know that's the right way to put it.
But I I was trying to keep my chain of
thought while while I'm talking to you, because so much
has been going through my head while I was listening
to both of you, and especially Kyle with and I
could relate a lot of what he was saying, But yeah,
I would encourage a friend to guard to talk to
somebody because sometimes one of the things is that when
(18:12):
you talk to say a professional psychologist or a therapist
or where it be a counselor or an actual clinical psychologist,
is to remember that it's confidential. And sometimes you don't
You don't want to. You feel you don't want to
put a friend in that position, or you feel like
(18:32):
you can't talk about something to a friend, you know,
because it might be very deep and personal, and you
with the psychologist, you know that you're going to be
in that environment where it's confidential.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Like I say, it's a really good point, philk cold
do you want if I ask you a question? I mean,
obviously without sort of diving into the details, but in
a general sort of way, what have you found helpful
about talking to a psychologist for the last few years?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
One sort of confidential reality side of it, you know,
because like I say, talking to your family and friends,
even though it's your family and friends and there's you know,
does that eye you can say anything or you can
tell me anything sort of thing. Whatever the trouble is,
sometimes you think, well, I don't think I can you know,
sort of think. So that's that's one aspect of it,
(19:27):
and just the advice too that the psychologist. Funnily enough,
when I started seeing him, he said to me, and
we we're talking about things, he said to me, I'll
need to see you for at least ten years. And
I sort of thought at the time of that we
all done and dusted.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
A physicians.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
That seems like a strange prediction to say I'm going
to need to see you for ten years. It does
seem surprising.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I guess he you know, like this guy was
a clinical psychologist for over fifty years and work in
all sorts of institutions, and he yeah, like you say,
it might seem strange or a bit over the top,
but I guess seeing you more than me. But the
funny thing is I'm still going seven years later later
(20:15):
with him, so he wouldn't far wrong. But also like
the information that he can give you with his insight,
like Kyle would as well, Like I say, when he
was paying some of the things he can about trying
to figure things out and understanding things in yourself and
then giving your tips like writing and journaling, stuff that
(20:36):
you wouldn't normally think of to do that. Like I said,
I just want to get so much in but I
just told but I would say yeah, and just knowing
that you're going to see someone as well on a
regular basis that there to talk to. Because when you're feeling,
when you're struggling with depression for whatever issues, from whatever
(20:57):
issues you have, the last thing, funnily enough, the last
thing that you actually want to do, even though you think, God,
I wish I could just ring up a friend now
or talk to a family member, it's actually the last
thing you want to do. At the same time, it's
like and you just sit there and dwell, and then
of course that just gets more and more worse.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
You know, I agree with you about the process being
a really important part of it. That actually just knowing
you have those appointments regularly ideally weekly if people can
manage it, does just sort of keep the things you're
trying to address front of mind, which is which is
really helpful. So hey, think thanks for your call, Phil.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Actually there's another question that goes in thanks Phil, another
question that goes alongside this, because sometimes you're not asked
for hot help. So I mean there's one thing for
you know, for you to seek out a conversation with
a friend because you feeling a bit down in the dumps.
Sometimes a friend might recognize, gosh, Tim's Tim's drinking a
(21:52):
lot these days. He's telling me, you had a whiskey
this night, Then I had another one, then another, I'll
book and later on. But I mean, when would you recognized,
for instance, on one of the things that people would
see sex and professional helpful. The obvious one to me
was if you saw someone had a substance dependency issue.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Yeah, it's a great question. So I think the number
one golden rule for addressing concerns is be behaviorally specific.
So what I mean by that is be clear with
the person what it is that you see them doing
that is concerned, Okay to you.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Let's so attend I'm getting stuck into it regularly and
I think it's not a problem. I look, I just
have for you, And it turns out to be every
time a week and I'm going through a few hundred
bucks worth of whiskey. And how would you how would you.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
So talk about the behavior, not the drinking. So the
golden rule with addressing someone's drinking is don't say you're
drinking too much because you're almost guaranteed to get a
defensive response.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Okay, that's the run thing I'd get wrong.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
First up, actually talk about Hey, look, I've noticed that
you're not turning up to the you know, not turning
up to the footy on Saturday, and I haven't seen
you out in about as much or you know, I'm
noticing that you're turning up to work late most mornings,
and you see, you seem to be a bit off.
Your mood's a bit off. Is everything okay? Has anything changed?
Speaker 4 (23:10):
And then they go, yeah, I'm great.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I just I'm just a bit sure to sleep these days.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Yeah, well just and I think again, it's about being
able to keep returning to the concerns that you have.
If you know that they're drinking a lot, you might
want to suggest there's a connection. But often particularly with
a workmate of someone we might not know. But if
it's if it's a partner or a family member, it's
about giving them feedback about the behavior rather than the
quantity that they're drinking.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
So what if they're I mean, actually I don't want to.
I mean, we can always discuss alcohol alcoholism anytime, But
if somebody is someone who's a functioning alcoholic who drinks
a lot and hasn't recognized as a problem. But you know,
function alcoholics, they that's the problem. They don't necessarily have
obvious things that you can point to because they're like,
what's the problem.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Well, and of course, you know, one point of view
would be to say, well, what is the problem. You know,
people are allowed to make those kinds of choices in
their life. If there's an impact, whether that be on
their kids or on their partner, then sure, then that's
a different conversation. But it's also true people.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Have leaving alone basically if their function and they're doing
all right.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
They're really hard line with Alcoholland drug says, make sure
you're not moralizing, that you're not coming from a place
of having a judgment about somebody else's behavior rather than
actually identifying a problem. Now, of course, having said that
drinking over the kind of healthy limits is going to
cause health problems in the long term, but it's kind
of like saying to a smoker, well, do you know
that's bad for you?
Speaker 3 (24:34):
How do you give people information about some say, if
you've got somebody who says that alcohol is harmless and
the more information that comes out about alcohol and studies.
And I don't want to sidetracked too much on this,
but I started so well finished. But is that alcohols
are carcinogen and even moderate drinking is not that great?
Speaker 4 (24:52):
I mean, is there a way of saying.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
God, you know what, I read this article because I
enjoy the Is that a tactic in us is saying, look,
I actually I stopped to think about how much I
was drinking the other day because did you see this
story about X, Y and Z.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
It's too transparent.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
No, it's a great point. In fact, actually it's it's
where it's another starting point if someone is you know,
very much kind of quote in denial. The technical term
is pre contemplative before thinking about it.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Then actually the interview they haven't realized it.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
They haven't realized it hasn't dawned. Offer them information, do
for one moment think that that's going to cause them
to stop drinking immediately, But you might start a process
of you know, a little niggle in the back of
the head that's kind of going. It's just in such
a good as.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
I guess it depends on relationships, because you do get
friendships where people are blunt with each other. It's like, hey, mate,
I've watched how much do you drink? You need to
have a think about that. I mean, it's probably not
necessarily harm if you've got that relationship of being.
Speaker 5 (25:47):
Absolutely and see what kind of response you get. The
other thing, of course, is to talk about what you're doing, so,
you know, in a positive way, say hey, you know,
I've noticed I'm having some zero beers, you know, during
the week, just because I wanted to kind of cut
back a bit, and that's kind of working for me.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, I got to say the zero bes thing. I
sort of wonder what the point of that is. Not
that I'd drink alcohol for the effect, but it just
feels that something feels like it's like having bread without flour.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
That's called gluten free bread. So you just defended all
the celias.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Actually, I do have to tell you something. I do
something quite funny the other day.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
This is completely unrelated. My daughter we got takeaways or
something I can't remably we got this from and my
daughter had vegan butter chicken, and I was like, no,
better chicken, what is that? And I suspect there might
have been some ingredients that might not have ticked the box.
But it's just the funniest thing I've seen gluten free
(26:48):
sorry vegan butter chicken. And she thought, well, obviously is
not real chicken. I said, butter. Oh, okay, I can't
have any of that either. I look, we'd love your
cause on this. In fact, after the break, also, we're
going to dig into AI, because AI for some people
becoming something of a companion. You can have comfort stations
with it, and whether in fact you know we have
(27:08):
to be careful with AI when it comes to issues
around our mental health. We're going to dig into that
in just a moment with Cayle MacDonald. But also if
you have any questions around managing your friendships and whether
you think that whether you're struggling with worrying about a
friend who might need to see seek advice beyond your friendship,
give us a call. I wait one hundred and eighty
ten eighty in text on nine two nine two.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Will be back in just a.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Moment to see.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Yes, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
This is the weekend Collective Health Hub with Carle McDonald.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I'm Tim Beverage.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
We're talking about when you get your friends help beyond
your own friendship.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
A few texts.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Actually, well, let's just get through a bit of the correspondence.
One person says, I had a girlfriend talk to me
about a marriage not going well. I think this means
a female friend, not as opposed to a relationship friend.
People assume being a solo mother, you know, answers. So
I sat down and said, how important is your marriage
and children? So advised counseling.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
It worked.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Sometimes different cultures also need advice. They've moved overseas and
now of a strong relationship. Actually, are there different are
there different cultural attitudes towards counseling, and within New Zealand
society there would be, wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
They The short answer is yes. But I think increasingly
it's become in cultures where they may have shied away
from counseling, it's increasingly become more and more accepted. But
because what you tend to see in non Western society
is there's still people who play that role. It might
be an elder, or it might be a you know,
(28:46):
a pastor or a priest. So now we still need that.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I wonder how much, if I'm just sinking back in
the Catholic Church, how much confessional for alip for a
priest was a former counseling rather than the whole absolution
I've been a naughty boy or girl.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
Yeah, I mean I can't not being catholic.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
I can't.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
I think what we've also, I mean, prior to psychotherapy existing, right,
what we had was priests and village elders and kalmatus.
So you know, we've always had that place where we
can go and talk.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Hey, Tim, can you ask Kyle? Is bipolar a brain
chemical imbalance?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (29:21):
It's a good question. The simple answer is yes, But
it's too simple to just say yes. It bipolar disorder
seems to be something that is a genetic, hardwired tendency
towards that particular way of coping with distress and trauma.
So it's always one plus one equals three. I like
(29:42):
to think of it as being the way in which
people's distress is expressed. Some people will find that it's
expressed in ways that are really debilitating, like bipolar disorder
or psychotic disorders. Some people will find that they are
naturally attracted to self medicating with alcohol, and some people
will find that actually it drives them to achieve in
ways that means that eventually they burn themselves out because
they are hardwired to try even harder because of the
(30:06):
trauma industry. So yes is the answer, but it's also
not a life sentence. If you have that genetic history
in your family, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going
to develop bipolic disorder.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Another one here says this is from Russell, and I
think it's from reading it. I think it's Russell wants
to know what he should do. It says him, after
nearly forty eight years of marriage, I'm dealing with my
wife having been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and that I
believe is having an impact on my own mental health.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Yeah, that's really tough because, I mean, you know, having
had family members and my wider family who have struggled with,
you know, with losing family members to neurological disorders. It's
a really tough one. And the thing about Alzheimer's and
dementia in particular is it's kind of like the person
goes before they actually die. You lose the person before
(30:58):
their body dies. Alzheimer's New Zealand, which is easy to
find online. It's alzheimer dot org dot NZ. They have
support groups and individuals support people to actually support the
family members for a diagnosis. So if you haven't already,
reach out to them. And they are one of those
wonderful organizations that does lots of quiet work in the background.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, so do do that, Russell. And here's another one
here a close friend lost his mum to breast cancer
this week. How do I support them while look after
my own health.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
Well, it's a really great question, and really great that
you're wanting to support them. So in the short term, practical,
make sure they've got some food. Take them some frozen
meals over or maybe get a whip brown a Monk's
Mates and get one of those frozen meal packages that
you can find online these days sent to their house.
But the most important thing you can do as a
friend often, I think, is once the initial period of
(31:54):
distress and struggle and funeral and all that kind of
hullabaloo is kind of passed, be the person that checks
on them after that, because it's amazing the number of
times you hear someone who struggled with grief. He goes know,
a week after the funeral and everyone has moved on
with their life, and I'm still struggling with it.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Worse than ever.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
I think that that's something I've heard about quite a
lot from people who have had a bereavement, is that
they get the charity and love piled on around the
time of the bereavement, which is natural human behavior. But
I almost feel that if you have a friend, you
should actually diary for yourself so you don't, you know,
I think human nature life gets busy. Pick up the phone,
(32:30):
give them a call, but make a note to yourself
that look at two or three weeks, pick up the
phone call such a four weeks call, see how they're doing.
Speaker 5 (32:37):
And be patient is the other thing that I always advise.
It can be really easy if you're not the one
experiencing the grief to you may never say it because
you know it's not the thing you should say, but
you might think it, why aren't they over it yet?
Grief takes time. Be patient with you with your friend.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Now I did mention we're going to get onto this
because there are some cautionary tales regarding AI seeking advice
and help and all that sort of stuff. Because AI,
you know, it's clever, it's amazing resource for many things,
but when it comes to mental health, Kyle.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
Well, it gets it's increasingly it's taken off globally. I mean,
if you know, I sort of have a search constantly
going for sort of mental health and psychology stories globally.
There's a number of stories coming out of the US
which have been quite tragic. Actually, So to start with
the negative, you know, what we're seeing is that tendency
for AI to be what we call sycophantic, which is
(33:30):
saying nice things, saying what it imagines or is imagines right,
what it has been programmed to say to make people
feel good, can be really disastrous in the wrong situation.
So there's a few high profile stories in the US
where tragically young teenagers have ended up taking their own lives,
and that part of what they've done to try to
(33:51):
support themselves with how they were feeling has been talking
to a chatbot through that process, and the chatbots have
given at times absolutely terrible, at times actually very very
dangerous advice even about how to actually complete the suicide.
So what we're seeing is that actually there's some work
to be done on that side. The good news I've
heard is that actually chat GPT I believe it was,
(34:13):
has actually hired some mental health professionals to actually come
in and start to think about what can we actually
do to protect people. But even with that, you know
the protections are there, but that there can be ways
around them. So the first thing is be careful. The
natural thing to do if you're sort of getting acquainted
with chatting with chat GPT is to sort of, you know,
(34:34):
to converse with it more and more naturally, but recognize
it's there to make you feel good, which is not
the same as a friend or a therapist, who is
not there to necessarily always make you feel good. Is
there to be honest and actually be challenging at times too.
Having said that, if you're not struggling in that way,
then sometimes it can be really helpful to run some questions,
life questions past it, because you know, I've played around
(34:56):
with it a little bit beyond sort of you know,
asking it to do tricky calculations and you know, draft
letters for me. It can actually be quite interesting what
it throws up, and some of it can be really
really useful. Although I actually admit I hadn't actually had
it throw an aarra at me. I spotted one yesterday
when I asked it how many how many all black
tests had there been at two thousand and four when
I first started going at eden Park because I'm trying
(35:17):
to figure out how many times i'd seen them win.
It missed all of the finals at the at eden Park.
And then I challenged it and it goes, oh, good catch.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Actually, I think it's worth challenging every now and again
that you just go, hang on, are you sure about that?
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Can you do a bit of that? And it goes, oh, whoops,
I got that.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
Now it forgets it blatantly wrong with mental health advice.
That's a concern, right, So I guess that the cautionary
tailers be careful. And of course, same as we talk
about a lot with technology these days, is if you
have a young person who's really deep diving into this
laking any technology, make sure you're keeping an eye on
them and talking to them yourself about how they're using
(35:55):
it as well.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Completely unrelated to psychotherapy. But I did a thing about
it because I make sourdo leavened bread and I got
frustrated because it wasn't quite matching the USA rest. So
I actually went in and said, what are the difference
between this type of flower in New Zealand versus? And
it was bloom and brilliant. It talked about the different
hydration rates and moisture that you might find, and so
(36:17):
for that it was great and fairly safe because if
it didn't work, all I'd get is a slightly sloppy loaf,
which actually for my mental health wasn't good because funny,
the reason it ties in mental health is that baking.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
We all have our little.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Rituals as well, and that's that's the thing I do
that makes me feel.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
But it comes back to that conversation we're having earlier
in the hour about loneliness, right that it's natural for
someone who perhaps is very engaged online to start having
those conversations with chat GPT or with other chat bots
as they're referred to. There's various kind of services where
you can actually have you know, creator an avatar and
actually have an online relationship. Right, fine, if it works
(36:56):
for you, great, I'm all a fan of everything it works,
but also make sure that you're talking to real people.
Pick up the phone, have a chat with a mate,
or call one seventh.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah that's one seven three seven, fantastic service. Text or
call if you like. It's nine and a half minutes
to five. News Talk si'd b yes, So welcome back.
Look at a couple of minutes to go really before
we wrap up. And by the way, Shimabil Yakov will
be joining us for Smart Money. We're gonna have a
chat about insurance and you know how much of you
(37:26):
are you having to make choice around keeping your insurance
and all that sort of thing. But we are with
Carl mc donough right now. But if you, by the way,
if you want to track up with catch up sorry
with Kyle professionally psychotherapy. Dot en z is the website.
But one of the things we've been talking about Kyle
and we may have to do a whole show on.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
This, I think I think we will.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Is well, it's based on this text I've talked about
if you've got a friend who's seeking your advice, when
should you refer them to someone professional? But the question
of friendship, and this text says, I don't think men
have friends. I don't know any men that I'd describe
as a friend. You're on your own. And it's an
interesting question about the different friendships.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
I mean, how many friends.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
I'd have Lots of acquaintances and people I know, but
in terms of close friends, that's a tougher question.
Speaker 5 (38:10):
I think, yeah, I mean, I think it's unfortunate that
the text feels that way, because I think that what
tends to happen over life is friendships require more effort,
perhaps on both sides. But you know the stereotype of
men as they age, as they fall out of contact
with people, right that family or work or other things
become a priority. I think it's about recognizing that friendship
(38:32):
can be lots of different things, and you're actually having
friends who are useful for different things. Friends you go
to spooks games with friends, you go to concerts with
you know, friends, you might just hang out and have
a regular coffee and don't be afraid to schedule. I
think that's the other thing. It can feel like it's
a bit forced if you're like every Thursday at ten
I catch up with Bill. But actually if that works great.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Actually, I think if friendship takes an effort, absolutely, I mean,
because not everyone.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
It's not that some.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
People might have a lifestyle or a routine where they
just happen to bump into and catch up because you've
got so many things in common. But other friendships, especially
if you change careers or interests or cities, or towns.
They take an effort, don't they.
Speaker 5 (39:07):
And of course the other challenge that I often come
across in my practices when people make the decision to
stop drinking all it could be really hard to keep
up contact with friends. But it's entirely possible. It just
means doing things differently.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Tyra and make a note of that for another discussion
on the health up. I think we've got a couple
of topics we can dig into next time.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
A car but hey, good to see you.
Speaker 5 (39:26):
And of course Another's club is on tonight eleven o'clock.
I'm actually off I've got to be in Wellington early
for work, but Hamish will be there and we've got
a great guest. Tune in at eleven o'clock till one
am every Sunday night.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Excellent and that wraps that out. Have you missed any
of it? You want to tune in and check it out.
Go to News Talks A be dot cat in and
z and look for the health AUP. We get our
hour up pretty quickly after each one concludes. Anyway, shamilby
Yaka is with us for smart Money. Next this is
News Talks. He'd b three and a half minutes to five, A.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
Little Good, not any need?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Isn't it.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Something made me bad in the middle, Not any.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Need for more from the Weekend Collective. Listen live to
news talks it Be weekends from three pm, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I need somebody, not just.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
You know, I need someone.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So much?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Is anywhere.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Down these days?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Self loves Healthy.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
If you can feeling yes, welcome in or welcome back
to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage. By the way,
we love your court, not by the way I mean
first things first, we'd love your calls. I weight one
hundred eighty ten eighty text nine to nine two. This
is the health Hub and we're going to have a
chat about when to and this might be for you
(01:01):
as well.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
But the way I had.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Initially thought of this conversation was often, you know, friends
talk to friends when you're down to the dumps. And
I actually was remembering that line. There's a line in him.
Oh God, this dates me, doesn't it? A line in
a movie called Crocodile Dundee, which to some of the
younger mean listeners they well, you might have heard of it,
and it's about a sort of outback guy goes to
New York and there's a line where the woman who
(01:26):
becomes his love interest talks about how someone is seeing
a therapist or something, and he goes what's that? And
we'll sit there a bit down in the dumps and
he says, well, haven't they got any mates? And it's
that sort of down to earth sort of thing. Well,
do you need to go and see a therapist just
as a matter of lifestyle when you maybe should have
some friends to talk to? But I thought of that line.
I thought, well, actually there is a line where maybe
(01:50):
you are that friend who's been sought out to support
another friend.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
And when do you.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Recognize and how do you recognize that? Actually, you know what,
I think I need to try and push my friend
towards getting some professional help. And look, not an easy issue,
and of course we all need friends to talk to,
and maybe that is a good first protocoll but when,
what and under what circumstances should you actually go? Well,
(02:15):
you know what, you know, I'm here for you any time,
but I really want you to seek some further help.
So we're going to talk about that with Well, he's
no stranger to the show. Orton News Talk said be
and he is a psychotherapist. Funny thing is I wonder
how he got this website because his website is psychotherapy
dot in Z and Carle McDonald I think you must
(02:37):
have gotten first for that one, didn't you.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
Yeah, it's just quick off the blocks.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Well, I mean, because you didn't have to put initials
in front of her or a psychopotherapy one two threa,
it's just psychotherapy dot zasy to find.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
So I'm not.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Sure how good, bad, or average my introduction was. But
there will be time, isn't for many people when they've
got a friend who's sought them out and you might
be a relationship breakup or anything, or somebody's just a
bit down. You spending time and you catch up for coffee,
and there are there signals where the friend who is
(03:12):
the count's salor, if I can use it in that expression,
should recognize that maybe something else there needs to be
some other I don't want to use word intervention. You
might find a better word for me semantically, but yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
No, intervention is a good way to put it. I mean,
I think the first and obvious one should be, you know,
sort of easy for anyone to figure out in a way,
which is that if you're worried about your friend's safety,
if you're worried that they might be suicidal, or that
they're preps out of control in some other way making
bad choices in their life around alcohol or drug use.
Then that's certainly a time to suggest that they may
(03:45):
want to speak to someone professionally, because I think, first
of all, we shouldn't as a friend be left with
the worry about that, right like that, that's an important one,
But beyond that, I mean, I think it comes down
to preps zooming out a little bit and sort of saying, well,
what's the difference between life stresses, life worries, kind of
ordinary ups and downs versus something that may be more
(04:07):
psychiatric or mental health related.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Well, I think that that's where it gets tricky, because
it can be ordinary day to day life that can
really start to grind people down. Or the problems or
whatever they're expressing may relate to the problems that we
all have absolutely and yet for them they're just not coping.
And I don't know if that would be It's like
(04:32):
a breakup. How many people in the breakup they look,
I'm never going to meet another person like her. I
just only I don't feel like living. I just feel
that the sun rose and set with her, and now
it's no longer there. I don't know what the point
of life is and all that. I mean, there would
be plenty of people who actually weren't in a self
harm mode who would say that stuff because it's the
(04:53):
language of despair and heartbreak as well.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
And in fact, that's actually a pretty good example because
it might be fine to feel like that for a
few weeks, maybe even for a few months, but if
someone's still feeling like that, you know, more like a
year or beyond, then they're stuck. And so that's kind
of the first thing to think about is is the
person seeking support actually kind of stuck with something that
actually the talking that they're doing, the support that they're getting,
(05:18):
isn't actually helping.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Them move through that experience.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
And the second thing I think to keep in mind
is is it causing problems in their life? So it
being how they feel? Because you know, what we tend
to look for when we're trying to understand is this
normal life coping or is this actually developing into something more?
Is is it hampering the person's ability to live, love,
or work? So is it getting in the way of
(05:41):
them doing their normal enjoyable activities, getting out and about
doing those social things. Is it interfering with their relationships
in some way or is it interfering with their work,
And if it's, if it's starting to cause problems in
those areas, then we're starting to head more towards perhaps
a diagnosis of something like depression or anxiety, or a
grief that's kind of gotten stuck in some way.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
By the way, I always feel that you need to
cover this off because if we are talking about people
being I don't want to I don't like the euphemisms
I use, but I'm using the way I speak about
being down in the dumps. But if you are really struggling,
and you are having some very negative thoughts about the
way you you your own life and things like that,
(06:23):
then please there is a I always like to highlight
the one seven three seven service. You can either call
it one seven three seven. It sounds way too easy.
You can text it. The number is just one seven
three seven. I mean you can fill in a few
gaps on that one too, can't you come?
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Yeah, they're all professionally trained counselors and not only will
they be able to call or texture back, but they
may be able to connect job with some services in
your area or make a recommendation for counseling too.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
What if a person, Yeah, what if a person?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Actually, I got to say it's I think it gup's
to all sorts of initiative mental health. I just think
the one seven three seven thing is to me, it
seems so good because it's such an easy reference point
and it's so simple. You don't there's not just one
method of contact.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
You did exactly what we do do on the Nutters Club,
as we actually explained, it is a real number, even
though it's only four numbers.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Actually it's funny, isn't it, because it's not eight hundred something.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
No, it's just four numbers.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
But of course people in this station know that you
can literally just text nine two nine two, so they'll
be up with the four digits through although you can't
call nine two nine two. Well, I've never tried that one.
Maybe we'll try break.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
What about look?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And I've known at times when people have been ahead
of the issue what they thought to so the friend
who's count providing the shoulder to cry on has actually
spoken to the person about whether they need some sort
of further counseling, and that sometimes ended the relationship. I mean,
(07:54):
how do you manage that? Do you need permission of
the person who's down of the dumps that look, I
really think you need some further help or you know,
and how do you manage that side of things?
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Well, you know, I guess it's possible people might get
defensive about that right, or may hear the wrong thing.
But I would hope these days that there'd be a
greater acceptance of the role of counseling and therapy in
people's lives. And actually, I think often it's about just
sort of letting the person know that you're concerned about them.
Actually that you're not saying that you think they're nuts,
You're not saying that you think they think they need
(08:26):
professional help in all caps. You're actually saying, look, I'm concerned.
You know, we've been talking about this for a little while.
You seem really stuck, and you also seem really unhappy,
And you know, maybe even make a suggestion of some
people that they could talk to or offer to go
along to them to the first appointment with them. That
can often be a really helpful thing, because getting to
that first appointment is often really hard. Now you don't
(08:48):
have to come into the room, but actually just going
along and sitting in the waiting room and sort of
you know, not making sure that they get there, but
actually supporting them to get there, because that first step
is often.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
The hardest step.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
How hard is it for people to realize themselves that
they need counseling, Because there'll be some people who, I mean,
for some people who feel a bit down, they just
want to go and talk to someone there that you know,
they don't mind, it's part of their life, or that
every now and again they get a check up, much
the same way they might go to their GP. They're
going and have a few sessions to talk through things.
But they're the people at the other end of the
(09:18):
scale who would never consider that there's anything wrong. I mean,
how how how do we go about navigating that space?
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Well, you're right, I mean a lot of people just
actually just decide that that's what they need. Right And
in many ways, the answer to the question of how
do you know, it's kind of where you just feel
like you need to talk and actually maybe there isn't
enough talking that can be done with friends if you're
really struggling. I mean, I think the thing to consider
is that you know, to find out a little bit
more information about what therapy actually is. So one of
(09:48):
the ways that people can struggle to get along and
talk is they may feel ashamed or embarrassed. You know,
they may feel worried that the therapist is going to
act in some way or so you know, call the
mental health crisis team or.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
So you know, the reality is that therapists experience. Therapists
and counselors have kind of heard it all. That's the job.
So you know, you don't need to feel embarrassed about
whatever's going on in your head. The odds are we've
heard it or some version of it, and we know
how to help you with it. And the other thing
I think too is often people can hit a point
(10:25):
in their life where maybe they feel like they've been
running or trying to sort of keep a lid on
things from the past, whether that be things that happened
in childhood and their family, you know, maybe experiences at
school that shape them in some way, whether it be
abuse or bullying or that just kind of come up.
And you know, there's no real sort of neat and
tidy answers to why that happens. But it's really common
(10:48):
experience that people might come to therapy in their thirties
or forties because they kind of feel like that traum
was caught up with them in some way and they're
kind of a bit stuck on it, or they've been
sort of triggered into it and can't stop thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
How long does it take people to get to open
up in a session? I mean, what's the sort of
what are examples non specifically, I guess, but what's your
experience been on how long it takes?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Well?
Speaker 5 (11:10):
I mean, I think if it's a good match, and
that's another really important part of this process, if you
sort of sit down and you feel like, like any
human relationship, you feel like you're talking to the right person.
It's not uncommon for me to hear at the end
of the first session, or perhaps the beginning of the
second session, oh look, sorry, I feel like I just
sort of dumped all the stuff on you. All I
did was talk last time. I'm like, no, no, that's
(11:31):
what happens. And so you know, my personal practice is
the first session is the only session that I actually
take notes in the session, because often what happens is
so much information comes out once people just need to talk,
and they've often been holding it in for quite some time.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
How much of a stigma is there then around because
that would be one of the breaks on people thinking
they need help. It's like, oh, there's nothing wrong with me,
you know, it's fine. I mean, how much of a
stigma do you think we still have in society around
mental health?
Speaker 5 (12:01):
Well, I actually think we've come a long way. I mean,
you know, the The Nuice Club is, you know, over
fifteen years old.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I mean it's when I heard the name of the
show the first time, I thought, oh gosh, that's a
that's an interesting I mean, it's playing on the stereotype,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
I mean we like to think of it as reclaiming
the term. But you know, when Mike King first started
the show, there was a lot of anxiety and panic
about actually talking about these things openly, certainly talking about
suicide openly. Fast forward now to fifteen years, and I
think people are really well acquainted. You only have to
sort of look at the number of podcasts there are
out there now where people, you know, whether it be
(12:39):
famous people or everyday people want to talk about their
life stories. So I think there's a lot more understanding
that we struggle and that it's normal to struggle. I
think it's when it comes down to the individual level.
I think if you're really struggling to get help, then
actually it might be that's the thing you need help with,
because I think you know you asked before, what do
you do if someone gets really defensive? Well, none of
(12:59):
us can cope on our own. We all need help,
whether that be a community of mates, or supportive partner
or a therapist. We all actually need to be able
to unburden ourselves sometimes. And if the ideas or the
beliefs you've got on your mind is I just have
to cope. The odds are that's probably causing your.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
Problems how much?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I mean, do we have more Where are we out
on the sort of stats side of people having mental
health issues that need to be resolved, Because I just
have the sense that we're through the COVID years and
now coming out of it and stuff, I'm not sure
if we are as connected with each other as we
might have been ten, fifteen, twenty thirty years ago, which
would then lead me to the conclusion that maybe we've
(13:38):
got a bit more to deal with the when it
comes to mental health.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, the if you
like the serious mental health end of the spectrum. So
your psychotic disorders bipole are serious mood disorders. They seem
to be pretty stable. So you know, the percentage of
those is around about one percentage. So I haven't got
the numbers to hand, but it's around about one percent
and it doesn't tend to change very much.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
What we know.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
That's a hard wiring sort of thing. Bipolar, isn't. I mean,
it's not in part where someone was mean to you
and therefore you've become I mean, there are coursative versus
what sort of as I say, hardwired for being one
of a better.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Expression genetics plus some kind of trauma. But you lean
down the genetics side. What does seem to have changed
since COVID and whether it's because of COVID or other
sort of modern life factors, is anxiety is on the
rise generally speaking in the Western world. You know, you
look at some of the headlines that might be quite understandable.
(14:37):
But what's interesting is that goes alongside that, is that
the people reporting experiences of loneliness is also on the rise.
You know, whether that's due to spending more time literally
on your own or experiencing less human to human connection
in day to day life.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
It's funny because you can have a lot of human
contact and still be incredibly lonely because of the type
of connection you have with the people around you.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Absolutely, and I think what you know, what we're seeing,
of course, a lot with modern life these days is
we know that avoiding human contact is something that we
do when we're distressed. It's kind of natural human behavior.
It's much easier to live a life in that way.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Now, though, can I mean, how much can you deal
with your own anxiety or how much can a friend
help you with anxiety? Because it feels like obviously self
harm and suicide that you know, they're big questions and
I don't think you want to be just I'm going
to talk to a mate about it to make me
feel self feel better.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
But how much can.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
The average mate, friend, Powell, you know, buddy do for
someone who's anxious.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
Well, again, it comes down to whether we're talking about
something that we might think of as clinical and diagnosable
or whether it's every day.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
What's the difference between everyday anxiety and clinical.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Well, I think diagnosed.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
I think people who experience anxiety as a feeling because
it is a feeling not necessarily a disorder. Ye will
know what it is that they feel anxious about. They
might have a particular worry, whether it's a performance review
at work, or you know, a relationship that's sort of
struggling in some way, versus actually an overwhelming sense of
anxiety that it's hard to locate or understand the reasons
(16:13):
for it. And so I think that's often another good flag.
If someone's really having strong feelings but they don't necessarily
know why, that's a really good time to talk to
your GP and or a therapist.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Okay, we'd love your calls on this as well. But
if you whether you've got just a question of your
own for Kyle and you want to run something by them,
But also, would you know when a friend who's sought
you out for some advice might need some help beyond
the advice that you can give them. When do you
think they would you recognize that, and how would you
(16:46):
steer them towards that advice?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Give us a call eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Of course, if you've got any problems or any questions
you've got for Carl MacDonald, then give us a call
on eight hundred eighty ten eighty in text, of course,
nine two nine two would be back in just a moment.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
It's twenty three and a half past four.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yes, News Talks, it'd be I'm with Carl MacDonald. We're
talking about mental health and also would you know when
a friend of yours maybe needs some other form of
help apart from your friendship.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
But also when would you be able to recognize it.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
In yourself that you might need some help beyond seeking
out a friend. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty Phil, Hello.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Oh Okody, how are you good?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Thanks?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Excellent? Yeah, I think I would be able to recognize
when a friend needed help or some stores that they
might need more than just your help as a friend,
and they need professional help because I've been seeing a
psychologist for seven years now, so I've got a bit
of skin in the game, so to speak.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah, you know what to expect.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, I don't know that's the right way to put it.
But I I was trying to keep my chain of
thought while while I'm talking to you, because so much
has been going through my head while I was listening
to both of you, and especially Kyle with and I
could relate a lot of what he was saying, But yeah,
I would encourage a friend to guard to talk to
somebody because sometimes one of the things is that when
(18:12):
you talk to say a professional psychologist or a therapist
or where it be a counselor or an actual clinical psychologist,
is to remember that it's confidential. And sometimes you don't
You don't want to. You feel you don't want to
put a friend in that position, or you feel like
(18:32):
you can't talk about something to a friend, you know,
because it might be very deep and personal, and you
with the psychologist, you know that you're going to be
in that environment where it's confidential.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Like I say, it's a really good point, philk cold
do you want if I ask you a question? I mean,
obviously without sort of diving into the details, but in
a general sort of way, what have you found helpful
about talking to a psychologist for the last few years?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
One sort of confidential reality side of it, you know,
because like I say, talking to your family and friends,
even though it's your family and friends and there's you know,
does that eye you can say anything or you can
tell me anything sort of thing. Whatever the trouble is,
sometimes you think, well, I don't think I can you know,
sort of think. So that's that's one aspect of it,
(19:27):
and just the advice too that the psychologist. Funnily enough,
when I started seeing him, he said to me, and
we we're talking about things, he said to me, I'll
need to see you for at least ten years. And
I sort of thought at the time of that we
all done and dusted.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
A physicians.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
That seems like a strange prediction to say I'm going
to need to see you for ten years. It does
seem surprising.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I guess he you know, like this guy was
a clinical psychologist for over fifty years and work in
all sorts of institutions, and he yeah, like you say,
it might seem strange or a bit over the top,
but I guess seeing you more than me. But the
funny thing is I'm still going seven years later later
(20:15):
with him, so he wouldn't far wrong. But also like
the information that he can give you with his insight,
like Kyle would as well, Like I say, when he
was paying some of the things he can about trying
to figure things out and understanding things in yourself and
then giving your tips like writing and journaling, stuff that
(20:36):
you wouldn't normally think of to do that. Like I said,
I just want to get so much in but I
just told but I would say yeah, and just knowing
that you're going to see someone as well on a
regular basis that there to talk to. Because when you're feeling,
when you're struggling with depression for whatever issues, from whatever
(20:57):
issues you have, the last thing, funnily enough, the last
thing that you actually want to do, even though you think, God,
I wish I could just ring up a friend now
or talk to a family member, it's actually the last
thing you want to do. At the same time, it's
like and you just sit there and dwell, and then
of course that just gets more and more worse.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
You know, I agree with you about the process being
a really important part of it. That actually just knowing
you have those appointments regularly ideally weekly if people can
manage it, does just sort of keep the things you're
trying to address front of mind, which is which is
really helpful. So hey, think thanks for your call, Phil.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Actually there's another question that goes in thanks Phil, another
question that goes alongside this, because sometimes you're not asked
for hot help. So I mean there's one thing for
you know, for you to seek out a conversation with
a friend because you feeling a bit down in the dumps.
Sometimes a friend might recognize, gosh, Tim's Tim's drinking a
(21:52):
lot these days. He's telling me, you had a whiskey
this night, Then I had another one, then another, I'll
book and later on. But I mean, when would you recognized,
for instance, on one of the things that people would
see sex and professional helpful. The obvious one to me
was if you saw someone had a substance dependency issue.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Yeah, it's a great question. So I think the number
one golden rule for addressing concerns is be behaviorally specific.
So what I mean by that is be clear with
the person what it is that you see them doing
that is concerned, Okay to you.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Let's so attend I'm getting stuck into it regularly and
I think it's not a problem. I look, I just
have for you, And it turns out to be every
time a week and I'm going through a few hundred
bucks worth of whiskey. And how would you how would you.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
So talk about the behavior, not the drinking. So the
golden rule with addressing someone's drinking is don't say you're
drinking too much because you're almost guaranteed to get a
defensive response.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Okay, that's the run thing I'd get wrong.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
First up, actually talk about Hey, look, I've noticed that
you're not turning up to the you know, not turning
up to the footy on Saturday, and I haven't seen
you out in about as much or you know, I'm
noticing that you're turning up to work late most mornings,
and you see, you seem to be a bit off.
Your mood's a bit off. Is everything okay? Has anything changed?
Speaker 4 (23:10):
And then they go, yeah, I'm great.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I just I'm just a bit sure to sleep these days.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Yeah, well just and I think again, it's about being
able to keep returning to the concerns that you have.
If you know that they're drinking a lot, you might
want to suggest there's a connection. But often particularly with
a workmate of someone we might not know. But if
it's if it's a partner or a family member, it's
about giving them feedback about the behavior rather than the
quantity that they're drinking.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
So what if they're I mean, actually I don't want to.
I mean, we can always discuss alcohol alcoholism anytime, But
if somebody is someone who's a functioning alcoholic who drinks
a lot and hasn't recognized as a problem. But you know,
function alcoholics, they that's the problem. They don't necessarily have
obvious things that you can point to because they're like,
what's the problem.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Well, and of course, you know, one point of view
would be to say, well, what is the problem. You know,
people are allowed to make those kinds of choices in
their life. If there's an impact, whether that be on
their kids or on their partner, then sure, then that's
a different conversation. But it's also true people.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Have leaving alone basically if their function and they're doing
all right.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
They're really hard line with Alcoholland drug says, make sure
you're not moralizing, that you're not coming from a place
of having a judgment about somebody else's behavior rather than
actually identifying a problem. Now, of course, having said that
drinking over the kind of healthy limits is going to
cause health problems in the long term, but it's kind
of like saying to a smoker, well, do you know
that's bad for you?
Speaker 3 (24:34):
How do you give people information about some say, if
you've got somebody who says that alcohol is harmless and
the more information that comes out about alcohol and studies.
And I don't want to sidetracked too much on this,
but I started so well finished. But is that alcohols
are carcinogen and even moderate drinking is not that great?
Speaker 4 (24:52):
I mean, is there a way of saying.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
God, you know what, I read this article because I
enjoy the Is that a tactic in us is saying, look,
I actually I stopped to think about how much I
was drinking the other day because did you see this
story about X, Y and Z.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
It's too transparent.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
No, it's a great point. In fact, actually it's it's
where it's another starting point if someone is you know,
very much kind of quote in denial. The technical term
is pre contemplative before thinking about it.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Then actually the interview they haven't realized it.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
They haven't realized it hasn't dawned. Offer them information, do
for one moment think that that's going to cause them
to stop drinking immediately, But you might start a process
of you know, a little niggle in the back of
the head that's kind of going. It's just in such
a good as.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
I guess it depends on relationships, because you do get
friendships where people are blunt with each other. It's like, hey, mate,
I've watched how much do you drink? You need to
have a think about that. I mean, it's probably not
necessarily harm if you've got that relationship of being.
Speaker 5 (25:47):
Absolutely and see what kind of response you get. The
other thing, of course, is to talk about what you're doing, so,
you know, in a positive way, say hey, you know,
I've noticed I'm having some zero beers, you know, during
the week, just because I wanted to kind of cut
back a bit, and that's kind of working for me.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, I got to say the zero bes thing. I
sort of wonder what the point of that is. Not
that I'd drink alcohol for the effect, but it just
feels that something feels like it's like having bread without flour.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
That's called gluten free bread. So you just defended all
the celias.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Actually, I do have to tell you something. I do
something quite funny the other day.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
This is completely unrelated. My daughter we got takeaways or
something I can't remably we got this from and my
daughter had vegan butter chicken, and I was like, no,
better chicken, what is that? And I suspect there might
have been some ingredients that might not have ticked the box.
But it's just the funniest thing I've seen gluten free
(26:48):
sorry vegan butter chicken. And she thought, well, obviously is
not real chicken. I said, butter. Oh, okay, I can't
have any of that either. I look, we'd love your
cause on this. In fact, after the break, also, we're
going to dig into AI, because AI for some people
becoming something of a companion. You can have comfort stations
with it, and whether in fact you know we have
(27:08):
to be careful with AI when it comes to issues
around our mental health. We're going to dig into that
in just a moment with Cayle MacDonald. But also if
you have any questions around managing your friendships and whether
you think that whether you're struggling with worrying about a
friend who might need to see seek advice beyond your friendship,
give us a call. I wait one hundred and eighty
ten eighty in text on nine two nine two.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Will be back in just a.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Moment to see.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Yes, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
This is the weekend Collective Health Hub with Carle McDonald.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I'm Tim Beverage.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
We're talking about when you get your friends help beyond
your own friendship.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
A few texts.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Actually, well, let's just get through a bit of the correspondence.
One person says, I had a girlfriend talk to me
about a marriage not going well. I think this means
a female friend, not as opposed to a relationship friend.
People assume being a solo mother, you know, answers. So
I sat down and said, how important is your marriage
and children? So advised counseling.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
It worked.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Sometimes different cultures also need advice. They've moved overseas and
now of a strong relationship. Actually, are there different are
there different cultural attitudes towards counseling, and within New Zealand
society there would be, wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
They The short answer is yes. But I think increasingly
it's become in cultures where they may have shied away
from counseling, it's increasingly become more and more accepted. But
because what you tend to see in non Western society
is there's still people who play that role. It might
be an elder, or it might be a you know,
(28:46):
a pastor or a priest. So now we still need that.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I wonder how much, if I'm just sinking back in
the Catholic Church, how much confessional for alip for a
priest was a former counseling rather than the whole absolution
I've been a naughty boy or girl.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
Yeah, I mean I can't not being catholic.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
I can't.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
I think what we've also, I mean, prior to psychotherapy existing, right,
what we had was priests and village elders and kalmatus.
So you know, we've always had that place where we
can go and talk.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Hey, Tim, can you ask Kyle? Is bipolar a brain
chemical imbalance?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (29:21):
It's a good question. The simple answer is yes, But
it's too simple to just say yes. It bipolar disorder
seems to be something that is a genetic, hardwired tendency
towards that particular way of coping with distress and trauma.
So it's always one plus one equals three. I like
(29:42):
to think of it as being the way in which
people's distress is expressed. Some people will find that it's
expressed in ways that are really debilitating, like bipolar disorder
or psychotic disorders. Some people will find that they are
naturally attracted to self medicating with alcohol, and some people
will find that actually it drives them to achieve in
ways that means that eventually they burn themselves out because
they are hardwired to try even harder because of the
(30:06):
trauma industry. So yes is the answer, but it's also
not a life sentence. If you have that genetic history
in your family, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going
to develop bipolic disorder.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Another one here says this is from Russell, and I
think it's from reading it. I think it's Russell wants
to know what he should do. It says him, after
nearly forty eight years of marriage, I'm dealing with my
wife having been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and that I
believe is having an impact on my own mental health.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Yeah, that's really tough because, I mean, you know, having
had family members and my wider family who have struggled with,
you know, with losing family members to neurological disorders. It's
a really tough one. And the thing about Alzheimer's and
dementia in particular is it's kind of like the person
goes before they actually die. You lose the person before
(30:58):
their body dies. Alzheimer's New Zealand, which is easy to
find online. It's alzheimer dot org dot NZ. They have
support groups and individuals support people to actually support the
family members for a diagnosis. So if you haven't already,
reach out to them. And they are one of those
wonderful organizations that does lots of quiet work in the background.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, so do do that, Russell. And here's another one
here a close friend lost his mum to breast cancer
this week. How do I support them while look after
my own health.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
Well, it's a really great question, and really great that
you're wanting to support them. So in the short term, practical,
make sure they've got some food. Take them some frozen
meals over or maybe get a whip brown a Monk's
Mates and get one of those frozen meal packages that
you can find online these days sent to their house.
But the most important thing you can do as a
friend often, I think, is once the initial period of
(31:54):
distress and struggle and funeral and all that kind of
hullabaloo is kind of passed, be the person that checks
on them after that, because it's amazing the number of
times you hear someone who struggled with grief. He goes know,
a week after the funeral and everyone has moved on
with their life, and I'm still struggling with it.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Worse than ever.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
I think that that's something I've heard about quite a
lot from people who have had a bereavement, is that
they get the charity and love piled on around the
time of the bereavement, which is natural human behavior. But
I almost feel that if you have a friend, you
should actually diary for yourself so you don't, you know,
I think human nature life gets busy. Pick up the phone,
(32:30):
give them a call, but make a note to yourself
that look at two or three weeks, pick up the
phone call such a four weeks call, see how they're doing.
Speaker 5 (32:37):
And be patient is the other thing that I always advise.
It can be really easy if you're not the one
experiencing the grief to you may never say it because
you know it's not the thing you should say, but
you might think it, why aren't they over it yet?
Grief takes time. Be patient with you with your friend.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Now I did mention we're going to get onto this
because there are some cautionary tales regarding AI seeking advice
and help and all that sort of stuff. Because AI,
you know, it's clever, it's amazing resource for many things,
but when it comes to mental health, Kyle.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
Well, it gets it's increasingly it's taken off globally. I mean,
if you know, I sort of have a search constantly
going for sort of mental health and psychology stories globally.
There's a number of stories coming out of the US
which have been quite tragic. Actually, So to start with
the negative, you know, what we're seeing is that tendency
for AI to be what we call sycophantic, which is
(33:30):
saying nice things, saying what it imagines or is imagines right,
what it has been programmed to say to make people
feel good, can be really disastrous in the wrong situation.
So there's a few high profile stories in the US
where tragically young teenagers have ended up taking their own lives,
and that part of what they've done to try to
(33:51):
support themselves with how they were feeling has been talking
to a chatbot through that process, and the chatbots have
given at times absolutely terrible, at times actually very very
dangerous advice even about how to actually complete the suicide.
So what we're seeing is that actually there's some work
to be done on that side. The good news I've
heard is that actually chat GPT I believe it was,
(34:13):
has actually hired some mental health professionals to actually come
in and start to think about what can we actually
do to protect people. But even with that, you know
the protections are there, but that there can be ways
around them. So the first thing is be careful. The
natural thing to do if you're sort of getting acquainted
with chatting with chat GPT is to sort of, you know,
(34:34):
to converse with it more and more naturally, but recognize
it's there to make you feel good, which is not
the same as a friend or a therapist, who is
not there to necessarily always make you feel good. Is
there to be honest and actually be challenging at times too.
Having said that, if you're not struggling in that way,
then sometimes it can be really helpful to run some questions,
life questions past it, because you know, I've played around
(34:56):
with it a little bit beyond sort of you know,
asking it to do tricky calculations and you know, draft
letters for me. It can actually be quite interesting what
it throws up, and some of it can be really
really useful. Although I actually admit I hadn't actually had
it throw an aarra at me. I spotted one yesterday
when I asked it how many how many all black
tests had there been at two thousand and four when
I first started going at eden Park because I'm trying
(35:17):
to figure out how many times i'd seen them win.
It missed all of the finals at the at eden Park.
And then I challenged it and it goes, oh, good catch.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Actually, I think it's worth challenging every now and again
that you just go, hang on, are you sure about that?
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Can you do a bit of that? And it goes, oh, whoops,
I got that.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
Now it forgets it blatantly wrong with mental health advice.
That's a concern, right, So I guess that the cautionary
tailers be careful. And of course, same as we talk
about a lot with technology these days, is if you
have a young person who's really deep diving into this
laking any technology, make sure you're keeping an eye on
them and talking to them yourself about how they're using
(35:55):
it as well.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Completely unrelated to psychotherapy. But I did a thing about
it because I make sourdo leavened bread and I got
frustrated because it wasn't quite matching the USA rest. So
I actually went in and said, what are the difference
between this type of flower in New Zealand versus? And
it was bloom and brilliant. It talked about the different
hydration rates and moisture that you might find, and so
(36:17):
for that it was great and fairly safe because if
it didn't work, all I'd get is a slightly sloppy loaf,
which actually for my mental health wasn't good because funny,
the reason it ties in mental health is that baking.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
We all have our little.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Rituals as well, and that's that's the thing I do
that makes me feel.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
But it comes back to that conversation we're having earlier
in the hour about loneliness, right that it's natural for
someone who perhaps is very engaged online to start having
those conversations with chat GPT or with other chat bots
as they're referred to. There's various kind of services where
you can actually have you know, creator an avatar and
actually have an online relationship. Right, fine, if it works
(36:56):
for you, great, I'm all a fan of everything it works,
but also make sure that you're talking to real people.
Pick up the phone, have a chat with a mate,
or call one seventh.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah that's one seven three seven, fantastic service. Text or
call if you like. It's nine and a half minutes
to five. News Talk si'd b yes, So welcome back.
Look at a couple of minutes to go really before
we wrap up. And by the way, Shimabil Yakov will
be joining us for Smart Money. We're gonna have a
chat about insurance and you know how much of you
(37:26):
are you having to make choice around keeping your insurance
and all that sort of thing. But we are with
Carl mc donough right now. But if you, by the way,
if you want to track up with catch up sorry
with Kyle professionally psychotherapy. Dot en z is the website.
But one of the things we've been talking about Kyle
and we may have to do a whole show on.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
This, I think I think we will.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Is well, it's based on this text I've talked about
if you've got a friend who's seeking your advice, when
should you refer them to someone professional? But the question
of friendship, and this text says, I don't think men
have friends. I don't know any men that I'd describe
as a friend. You're on your own. And it's an
interesting question about the different friendships.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
I mean, how many friends.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
I'd have Lots of acquaintances and people I know, but
in terms of close friends, that's a tougher question.
Speaker 5 (38:10):
I think, yeah, I mean, I think it's unfortunate that
the text feels that way, because I think that what
tends to happen over life is friendships require more effort,
perhaps on both sides. But you know the stereotype of
men as they age, as they fall out of contact
with people, right that family or work or other things
become a priority. I think it's about recognizing that friendship
(38:32):
can be lots of different things, and you're actually having
friends who are useful for different things. Friends you go
to spooks games with friends, you go to concerts with
you know, friends, you might just hang out and have
a regular coffee and don't be afraid to schedule. I
think that's the other thing. It can feel like it's
a bit forced if you're like every Thursday at ten
I catch up with Bill. But actually if that works great.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Actually, I think if friendship takes an effort, absolutely, I mean,
because not everyone.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
It's not that some.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
People might have a lifestyle or a routine where they
just happen to bump into and catch up because you've
got so many things in common. But other friendships, especially
if you change careers or interests or cities, or towns.
They take an effort, don't they.
Speaker 5 (39:07):
And of course the other challenge that I often come
across in my practices when people make the decision to
stop drinking all it could be really hard to keep
up contact with friends. But it's entirely possible. It just
means doing things differently.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Tyra and make a note of that for another discussion
on the health up. I think we've got a couple
of topics we can dig into next time.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
A car but hey, good to see you.
Speaker 5 (39:26):
And of course Another's club is on tonight eleven o'clock.
I'm actually off I've got to be in Wellington early
for work, but Hamish will be there and we've got
a great guest. Tune in at eleven o'clock till one
am every Sunday night.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Excellent and that wraps that out. Have you missed any
of it? You want to tune in and check it out.
Go to News Talks A be dot cat in and
z and look for the health AUP. We get our
hour up pretty quickly after each one concludes. Anyway, shamilby
Yaka is with us for smart Money. Next this is
News Talks. He'd b three and a half minutes to five, A.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
Little Good, not any need?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Isn't it.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Something made me bad in the middle, Not any.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Need for more from the Weekend Collective. Listen live to
news talks it Be weekends from three pm, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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