Could supplements be doing you more harm than good?

The world of supplements can be overwhelming, but don't worry, we've got you! Naturopath Erin O'Hara joins Francesca and Louise to to help determine if you need supplements, how to select quality products, and make sense of trends and labelling.

Discover when supplements can be helpful or even essential, versus when you're just wasting money (and potentially risking your health) on an unproven fad.

From vitamin D to probiotics, magnesium to collagen, Erin shares her insider tips on choosing the right forms, optimal dosing and what to avoid.

Timestamps:
- Do you need supplements? The mixed evidence [4:21]
- Should you take a daily multivitamin? [6:34]
- The problem with New Zealand's lax labelling laws [8:56]
- Popular supplements decoded: Vitamin D, probiotics, magnesium [12:17]
- Supplements for joint health and arthritis [21:34]
- Anti-aging supplements like collagen explained [27:11]
- Whether electrolytes and vitamin C live up to the hype [32:21]

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, I'm from Chester Budgin and I'm Louise Area and
this is season five of our New Zealand to Here
with podcasts The Little Things Good to have you with us.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
So in this podcast, we talked to experts. We found
out all the little things that you need to know
to improve all areas of your life and cut through
the confusion and overload of information out there.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
So today, supplements, we're going to talk about how to
find out whether you even really need a supplement, and
if you do, we're going to find out how to
select a good quality supplement and make it work best
for you. And we're going to get the low down
on some of the supplement trends out there and talk
about everything from vitamin D to Mauldi vitamins to anti
aging supplements.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
This is one area where there is a huge amount
of information. It is confusing. I mean, this just sort
of fits the bill of what we what we're trying
to do here through that. Yeah, Yeah, So I'm so
excited we're going to talk about this today. Do you
use use supplements?

Speaker 1 (00:53):
I do not take a single supplement these days. I
toy with the idea. I definitely did. If you're a call.
Coming out of my illness, I took quite a lot
of supplements. Yeah, then it just kind of you still
taking protein powder? You a sorry create sorry creating? Yeah,
I don't. I kind of probably should, but I don't
really think of those as supplement. No, yes, protein powder

(01:15):
when I remember creating, when I remember, I must ask
our guest about that, whether or not. It's the consistency
that counts. Was that sort of thing. But other than
those two things, yeah, nothing. Try not to even take
a paracetamaf I don't need it. I'm very much the same.
I do use protein powder as a way to get
a little extra protein in the day, and that's about it.
I was using a Mega three for a while from

(01:36):
the joints and things, but it's just so I don't
know whether they work or not. And then and then
you sort of you know, and these things are costly.
I don't have the money to be paying for something
that's not working all. I mean, i'd probably take the
placebo effect, but then I might finish a bottle and
I'll think, oh, should I replace them? And I just
live with things for a month and I go, oh,
maybe my joints are a bits or but then you go,

(01:57):
but actually it's winter and it's degrees outside, would be
would they be like that anyway? Like with some of them,
what I would really like to know is when does
it matter that it's a super high quality expensive one
and when does it not matter? And you can get
the cheaper version of something and still get the same impact. So,
for example, Amega three is a really good example of that,
I think, because there are some cheap ones, you know,

(02:17):
those really big bottles, the ones that you can get.
I don't know how long is the active ingredient for
who knows, Like you're right, it could just be a
PLACEBA effect.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
And that's what I'm really excited today we're going to
talk about. We're going to sort of learn how to
read labels and what to look for and understanding the
kind of doses that you should be taking of things.
I think I have quite an old fashioned perception of
taking vitamins and nutrients. I think in the past I've
just got, oh, look, I'm just I'll just take some
vitamin B, or I'll just take a body vitamin and
all vitamin C. And you know that's fine. If I

(02:46):
don't need it, I'll just pee it. Out. You know,
I've ever thought of them as being a harmful or anything.
But what we are actually seeing is the industry grows,
is that it can actually you know, all these things
do have to be processed by a body, and they
can cause harm as well. So it's going to be
great to talk about that a little bit today and
making sure that what we're doing is benefiting us and not.
And if you find yourself on a because the prescriptages, yeah,

(03:10):
ages are tearing into the supplements and things now. And
if you if you are on a prescribed medication and
you're taking supplements, what's the you know, who knows you
could be doing yourself some harm? And if the GP
asks you, how often do you do you honestly say, oh, yes,
here's the list of I don't think you've taken because
some of these people don't think about it and or

(03:30):
they don't admit it.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, maybe because they don't want to be poopooped by
their GP. So there is a lot to cover, and
I think there are times in your life where you
do need them, like, for example, foll late when you're
pregnant in that absolutely, so I guess today is naturopath
Aaron O'Hara. Aaron holds both a Bachelor of Science and
Physiology and a Bachelor of Natural Medicine. She combines that
knowledge of naturopathy and science to provide an integrative, an

(03:54):
evidence based approach to well being. Aaron has been in
the health and well being industry for around twenty years now,
but she continues to do extensive study to keep on
top of scientific research and it is hugely passionate about health.
Good to have you with us, are and welcome. Hi,
Nice to have you with us, Aaron.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Let's just start with the obvious question when it comes
to supplements, do we need to supplement our diet?

Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, I think there's mixed views on that, and I
was actually looking through some of the current research on
do we need supplements, and there has actually been studies
done with people over long periods of time, whether they've
taken a multi vitamin or taken a placebo, and it's
interesting the research that comes out of those studies is
actually there's very little difference between the two groups. So

(04:37):
it really depends on your own health and well being
and what sort of diet you're having, as well as
if you do have any specific sort of deficiencies that
you'd want to be looking out for. So people who
were maybe likes of being on a vegan diet, you
might be looking at supplementing on top of that, or
maybe certain health conditions like ours herporosis that we may

(04:58):
want some extra supplements. When it comes to a multi vitamin,
I think people are quick to grab them off the
shelf and be like, it's my insurance policy for keeping
myself healthy. But actually, I think we need to really
take a second look at Okay, what are we taking,
what is in't it? What extra additives are in that supplement,
and are they going to be doing more benefit or

(05:19):
harm to your body? And it's not the same for everyone, unfortunately,
we are all a little bit different and unique, and
I think that's where it depends on your natural nutrient
levels in your body, but also how your organs also
process those supplements as well, and the quality of the
product is huge.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
I guess, like everything that we talk about on this podcast,
it isn't a one size fits all situation. And so
how if we wanted to know whether or not we
needed a specific supplement, how do we know?

Speaker 3 (05:50):
I think it's first looking at your own health. So
I think the question I would usually ask someone is
why are you wanting to take supplements? Are you looking
at some sort of symptom that you've got, or do
you have a medicine condition you're wanting some extra support with,
and then from there looking at doing blood testing. It's
usually where I like to start. I like to know

(06:11):
where our baseline is and not just packing supplements based
on what it could possibly be good for, but instead, okay,
what is your general wellbeing like before you start putting
in supplements, and then you also know the effect of
those supplements on your body, particularly things like liver that
might be holding more toxic load when you're adding more
supplements in and actually having an educative view of what

(06:33):
you're supplementmenting in.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
So that's interesting. You're not just take You're not just
doing the testing to see if you may be deficient
in something like iron, but you also once you start
a supplement is actually worth testing to make sure that
it's not having an impact on certain parts of your
body like your liver and things.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, because it's looking about sort of where your general
health is at. And when you look at basic bloods,
you've got complete blood count. That's really looking at whether
you've got anemia, how your red blood sell how your
immune system's working. And then also organ function is usually
in a very basic panel, so that would be a
liver function test, as well as looking at renal function,

(07:10):
which is your kidneys. And most supplements if you're overdosing
yourself or even taking the right dose, is they are
actually getting processed through the liver and the kidneys. So
being really mindful of those organs because they're filtering whatever
you're putting in your body.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
So don't tell me off, because I know I should
know better, But I did say in the introduction, I
think I do have quite an old fashioned perception of
taking a taking a vitamin, taking a supplement, which is, oh,
if my body doesn't need it, I'll just pee it
out like it's harmless. And you know, we've always talked
about that with vitamin C, and everyone said the bright
yellow P at some point and you're just kind of going, oh,
that's fine, if my body doesn't need it, I'll just

(07:46):
pay it out. And I think we worry. We feel
like does anyone else Did anyone else used to think
like that?

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah? I know, And I think you can tune that
around and say, if my body doesn't need it, why
would I make my body process something I don't need
Because I do remember when I must have been I
can't remember somewhere in that bloody haze of illness, but
you know, they've talked about liver loading a lot, and
it's stuck in my mind. Is that what am I
doing if I take this or that or the other thing.
And also when I went to the GP recently and

(08:14):
they said, oh, yeah, that's cool, you probably should take
something for your cholestol, but let's just get your kidneys.
Are like, oh really, I hope blood tested it. She
was like, well, I need to know before we prescribe
you something that could even impact on your you know,
renal function.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
And that's where looking at that as your first line,
because if you get some testing done and you're also
looking at your diet and your lifestyle first, it really
supplements are their next sort of extra. On top of that,
they're not the instead of eating a healthy diet, you're
going to supplement in nutrients. It doesn't work like that,
even if you might like it to work like that.
And then I also think just your general public, if

(08:49):
you're looking at supplements like, obviously, I've spent six years
at university, and I know what's a fat soluble vitamin
that's going to get processed through the live and what's
a water soluble vitamin that's going to get processed through
the kidneys. But I think basically, if you haven't sort
of studied supplements in depth, you wouldn't know that from
picking up a bottle and a container and reading the label,

(09:10):
because basically it will have the ingredients in it and
maybe a few warnings, but it's not going to tell
you whether you're going to be overdosing yourself on something,
whether it's right for you or not, or whether it
even interacts with possibly any medications that you're taking. And
I think that's what people quite often don't look at. Okay,
is there any what's known as polypharmacy of the interaction

(09:31):
between your supplements and your medications and are they going
to be helping the medications work better or are they're
actually going to be doing more harm than good and
actually making maybe the medication not even work, which is
actually not something you want to be doing. If you've
got a chronic health condition.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Maybe we should this is a good time to talk
about labeling because half the time I don't have my
glasses on me and I can't read anything anyway, that's
so tiny.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Intentionally, I'm sure I.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Completely agree with you. So are our supplements well labeled
erin in New Zealand, well, they have to have.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
A certain amount of information on the label. Definitely. Australia
is stricter on what labeling goes on, particularly of having
the warnings and having their right sort of listing of ingredients.
In New Zealand we're even a little bit more lax
than that, and that we wouldn't always put the warnings. However,

(10:23):
in New Zealand we do have a stricter regulation around
you're not allowed to label the bottle based on the
action that it would have. For instance, a probatic that's
for ezma wouldn't say that on the bottle, where in
countries like Australia they can actually have a little bit
more guidance based on the labeling of what they're putting

(10:44):
on the branding of maybe the product name. So different
countries have different regulations and how they sort of do
the labeling and the labeling gives you a lot of information,
but also like unless you know what you're reading. And
I think how many people actually read the label before
they take supplements. Probably very few, and they don't always

(11:04):
have the warnings of exactly, Okay, you can't take it
with this medication, this medication, this medication. Instead you kind
of left to like it usually has just a very
broad spectrum check with your practitioner for docing or medical advice,
and I think that generally it's on every bottle kind
of something like that at the bottom of it'll have

(11:25):
that sort of warning of like make sure you're checking
with your professional doctor, and that's right, good, But also
do we actually do that, as my question to most
people is do they actually check that they're taking, you know,
before they're taking something, they're checking in with either a
natural path or who actually would know more about supplements

(11:47):
than your doctor because that's what they study at university,
or even checking in with your doctor, especially if you're
taking a medication and maybe doing a double check of both,
because the labor won't necessarily telling you whether it's safe
for your body or not.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
So we're sort of getting we're getting an education from
the industry rather than a you and hoping, you know,
crossing our thing isn't hoping that's right or not even
crossing our fingers. We're just grabbing it off the shewers, really,
aren't we. And I don't like you say, franchis gra,
I don't think people do read. I think you're looking
for that star product, like you say, like the AMGA three's,

(12:25):
that's the thing that you're looking for, But do you
read everything else that's involved in it, including the casing
that it comes in.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
There's a lot of additives that actually added to supplements
that actually when they are really small amounts, that don't
actually have to be put on the label. So unless
you actually go in and you look at that actual
product information which quite often is more available to a
practitioner than it is to your average person, then you
won't see all the hidden ingredients because it all have
the active ingredients and maybe some of the main ingredients

(12:53):
like vegie capsules, but it won't have the extra little
additives that are in there. And maybe you're reacting to
one of those things, which is absolutely possible too.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Here in New Zealand, do we test any of our
supplements to make sure that what they tell us is
on the bottle is actually in the tablet.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
No, and there are very few countries that do. And
it's interesting around the regulations in New Zealand that the
dietary supplement regulations in New Zealand are actually classified under
Dietary Supplement Regulations nineteen eighty five, so we're talking about
forty years ago, and it falls under the Food Act

(13:32):
of twenty fourteen, so it's actually quite old regulations that
we have in place. And I've worked in this industry
for a long time and obviously the supplement industry growth
is now in the trillion dollar industry. Yet our regulations
are still set back forty years ago and they're still classified,
especially in New Zealand, under a food product rather than Yes,

(13:56):
they've got the dietary supplement sort of regulations, but it's
still classified as under foods rather than under medications.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
So if Australia is more highly regulated in the way
that they manufacture and the way that they label and
what they produce, should we be looking for products that
are also sold in Australia. Is that quite a good
way around, you know, saying oh, here's a good quality
New Zealand product and oh look it also happens to
meet the Australian standards. So that's a little double tip.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
That's something that I personally always look for because I
know that the TGA, which is the regulating body in Australia,
is a lot stricter than New Zealand, and New Zealand
kind of falls under that's under the sort of medsafe
it kind of falls under. They kind of follow what
Australia is doing in general. However, there's certain funny rules
in New Zealand, especially around things like zinc, where zinc

(14:46):
and New Zealand assoppment's not allowed to be above fifteen
milligrams per day, which actually, if you're deficient in zinc,
will not be enough to get your zinc back to
normal levels, which means whoever's prescribing it's going to have
to dose it higher than that get you back to
normal levels. And that's where it comes down to sort
of testing and taking the right dose of what you need.

(15:06):
But in New Zealand we have more broad spectrum sort
of regulations were things like iron supplements they can only
be a set amount, which I think is twenty four
milligrams per tablet and an iron supplement. When it comes
to vitamin D, the regulation New Zealand is one thousand units,
which for most people that probably doesn't mean much. But

(15:27):
if I'm dosing vitamin D and I'm just trying to
keep someone at like a healthy level for their body size,
then I'd classify one thousand international units. Theres enough for
a twenty five K low child, So you would have
to really know how to dose that and get the
right dose for your size.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
So what I'm getting from this is if you think
that you know, if you're looking for something to help
you out, like if you feel that you know, as
you say, you've got a symptom, you're dealing with something
else or whatever. You get your blood tests and then
you find someone who can professionally tell you exactly how
much you need to of a zero product to actually
make an impact on you, and then keep an eye
on you to make sure that it's actually doing the

(16:07):
trick and you're not harming your body, and hopefully it's
you making an impact.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
And that's where really supplements should be looked at more
being something to create change in the body to bring
you back to optimal health, rather than having a supplement
plan that's the supplement pan that you take for the
rest of your life to stay healthy, like it shouldn't
be like that. And when I see most people come
into my personal clinic, if they've picked their own supplements,

(16:34):
generally they pick what i'd call basics, which is like
a multi vitamin, maybe a probiotic, maybe a for suil
and a magnesium and they kind of don't go from there.
But when it comes to further sort of from their supplements,
there's actually a lot of supplements out there, like thousands
of supplements around the world, and trying to pick what's

(16:56):
right for you really depends on what's going on in
your body. And again that about creating change, Like if
you're looking at something like arthritis, you want to get
on some stuff to get the information down, and then
you want to go on to like a maintenance plan,
and that's where your supplement plan. And even for my
own personal supplement plan, it's not a cookie cutter of
like the same thing that I take every month. That

(17:17):
will depend what's going on in my body and what
I'm taking, so I might rotate iron supplements in and out.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
It's so true because if you take something and you
think it's working.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
You're terrified.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
You don't want to stop it. No, You're like, no,
I'll just stop just then, like money and taking it,
and you potentially could stop it.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, But for example, if you are like for me,
I'm going to be training for something and I'm going
to be training further and longer and be out there,
you know, what I'm doing to my body or what
I'm needing for my body is going to change and
over these next coming you know, six nine months. Can
I just ask a question, where is the hold up
with getting better regulation?

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Well, there's talk about it being more like a global regulation,
and there has been talk about that and having better
sort of international requirements internationally to make it more standard.
And there's obviously two sides to that as well, is
that you know, that could create some benefit but also
some problems as well. When we're looking at like having

(18:16):
stricter regulations and making them more become like drugs and
that that need to be prescribed for something that you
need to take, which I do feel like there are
certain supplements that should be in that classification because people
taking them and not knowing what they're doing usually is
not a good thing. Where there could be other sort
of there could be two ranges. That's just my view

(18:38):
on it. When it comes to having strict regulations, obviously
there's safety concerns around that, and also who's doing the
regulating do they actually know? Like is it based on
somebody's view and how they like to work with a body,
Like then you'd need a certain team and how they
work on what's okay and what's not okay. Also, strict

(18:58):
regulations claim so you kind of cut back on that
because you also have tied a regulation of what's going
on labels and how they work, and also then stricter
regulations around interactions with sort of medications as well, which
is something that's really important, which as a practitioner myself,

(19:19):
when I'm working with someone with med toast taking medications
for a health condition, obviously I'm not trying to take
them off their medications, but instead I actually have access
into databases where I can put in their medications and
will tell me what active ingredients and supplements will interact
with that medication. And I think that's where when you're

(19:40):
picking your own supplements, like, are you doing these safety
checks because they are really important?

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Well, yeah, what worries me, I guess is I'm thinking
about those really vulnerable people out there. For example, if
you do get a diagnosis of cancer, a lot of
people go, I'm throwing out everything that's not organic, like
it's just a normal reaction to control what you can
control well. And then I'm going to take these mushrooms
because I've been told, and I'm going to take some
tumor because that's an anti inflamma. And some of these
are contraindicated with the treatment you'll be receiving for your

(20:10):
chemotherapy or your immune therapy or whatever. It's important, it's
really important that that. I mean, I worry about all
of us just wolfing down supplements for no reason and
wasting our money, but I really worry about those vulnerable
populations in particular.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
And I think that's where, like I think people quite an't.
They're beg into doing what I'd call the Google researching
of supplements, and especially if they get a serious health
diagnosis like cancer, and so it kind of gives them
like so many products they could possibly take. Like if
you take cancer, for instance, you would come up with

(20:46):
probably like a hundred products or more that could possibly
be good for anti cancer. But are they the right
things for you and the type of cancer you have
and depending on what pathways are actually the problem and
you body that needs support. And also if you're working
then alongside immunotherapy, obviously you need to know what you're
doing because you could actually stop the immunotherapy from working

(21:10):
as well if you're taking something that's actually stimulating the
immune system and it's not having that action that you require.
And that's where if you are doing treatments, don't just
pack your own supplements like it is helpful to have
someone who actually has some experience in the area that
you're looking and improving your health because they will give

(21:31):
you some good advice hopefully and help you guide on
what supplements you'll need and what supplements you shouldn't be taking,
because it does need to be a lot more cautious
when there are medications in place.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
You're listening to the little things and I guess on
the podcast today is Natropath Aaron Ohara talking supplements and
how to get the best out of them. We'll be
back shortly after this break. Welcome back erin. Maybe we

(22:08):
could talk about some of the popular vitamins and supplements
and things and the fads out there that we use.
Love to get your opinion on this. You've kind of
already spoken about the multi vitamin and whether it's useful
or not, and whether we should be a little bit
more targeted. I was just saying to Loub before I
seat of this. I can remember maybe in my twenties
or thirties, was really popular for you know, every second

(22:30):
woman I know was on a vitamin B or B plus.
Was it called well B twelve and all this kind
of like vitamin B was really big. Is that still popular?

Speaker 3 (22:39):
Absolutely? Right, They kind of get so that there's always
fad things that are going through the industry, particularly with
supplement products. I think the B vitamins were big, and
then they kind of always have been there, but probably
more into the background of the multi vitamin. But right now,
obviously it's quite big. The methylation, which I know not
everyone will know.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
That is what does this make you?

Speaker 3 (23:01):
What's this methylation? I think people are getting more into
doing gene testing and seeing whether they methylate, which is
basically providing the right types of B vitamins to support
detoxification pathways in the body. And so I think because
people are moving into doing more functional medicine or genetic testing,
they're then getting trying to get more precision with what

(23:23):
kind of products they're trying to take.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Metholate methylate. Okay, so does that also if that's talking
about detoxing, does that talk about how while you handle
alcohol things to a certain degree. Yep, it's drugs in
general things.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Okay, for woman, how you detox estrogen, which is really good,
things like in amenttriosis, maybe anyone who has more high
esogen dominance. Then methylation is critical to make sure you're
detoxing estrogen through the body because you use those methylated
B vitamins basically to then bind and then detox out

(23:58):
through the body. So they do a really good function.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Once again an example of it's just a little bit
more complicated than just grabbing a bottle of item and
puffing a pill.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
I'm finding this so fascinating, and I think in the
first half of this week we discussed it. We're not
anti supplement, We just want to know the facts and
arin you're not anti supplement, you prescribe them all the time.
So that's why we are asking you specifically now about
you know, the ones that we hear about a lot.
So you know, we're not here in name or shame
or anything. Like that. But vitamin D. What about vitamin D?

(24:31):
I think what we don't know is what does our
body make and retain and what does our body not keep,
So we need to keep topping it up. That's a
bit that gets me. I don't know about you, Franchisciver
that that always surprises me. So vitamin D we need
top ups, all right.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah. So Vitamin D is also known as the sunshine vitamin.
It is a fat soluble vitamin, so it stores in
your body and we get it from getting sunlight on
the skin, particularly UVB and so if you're getting it
onto the skin, then your body will naturally manufacture vitamin D. Now,
some people don't produce it as well as others, and

(25:05):
it's not necessarily to do with the pigment color of
your skin, So whether you're fear or dark skin is
actually a bit more complicated than that. And that's where
in the summer months we're generally outside a lot more
so we're going to have more sustained vitamin D levels,
and naturally, usually over the winter months where indoors a
lot more so, we will get a little bit more
drop in the vitamin D levels. When it comes to supplementing.

(25:29):
This for me is one I would not prescribe without
doing testing, because some people are super absorbers of vitamin
D from the sun through their skin, and even without
a supplement they can be really high normal levels and
other people, for instance, I'll use myself. I know I
have recessive genes for vitamin D that I don't absorb

(25:50):
it very well through my skin, so I monitor it
a little bit more carefully. Now. Some countries, like Australia
again for example, they do vitamin D testing twice a
year as their regular checkups and it's funded through Medicare.
Well in New Zealand, it is something you would have
to request as an extra additive and you would have

(26:12):
to pay to do that test. However, I feel like
it's very beneficial because if you're going to supplement it,
you want to know how much your body actually needs
because it's going to be storing it. And the one
time I've seen a lot of extreme high levels is
actually kids where moms have given their children to boost
their immunity vitamin D and obviously because they are small,

(26:33):
they have dosed them pretty high and they've had them
really up very high levels to the point where it's
actually toxic when it's high, so you want to be
a bit careful. This That was what I was going.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
To ask you about vitamin D because I have heard
that too, that it can be toxic and like, for example,
if you're pregnant, you would definitely want to know before
you took something like vitamin D because it can actually
have some implications, yeah, for your pregnancy.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Any of the fat soluble vitamins, if you're pregnant, you
want to be kindful. Like vitamin A is the same.
If you take vitamin A, you're going to cause birth defects.
So something to be really cautious around. It's those fat
soluble vitamins that need to be extra extra causa, which
is vitamin A, vitamin D, and vitamin E. So they
are all fat soluble, so you want to be careful

(27:18):
around how you're supplementing them. And if you look, for instance,
coming back to the multi vitamin, if you look at
your bottle of multi vitamin for most products, one of
the main ingredients is actually vitamin A. And vitamin A
obviously really important for your health, but too much is
actually not good for your health either, So something to

(27:40):
be careful around. Most people when they're taking a multi vitamin, though,
are generally taking just what's on the bottle label, which
is actually quite safe because they are based on recommended
daily allowances, which is actually just enough to survive, which
is not enough to actually boost anything into extreme levels.
So for most labeling to be honest, because there's a

(28:03):
level of caution with the labeling that actually the dosing
on the label is probably less than you actually require
because of the safety element with the labeling. And that's
where sometimes a practitioner, for instance myself, I would dose
a lot higher than what it says on the label
because you usually the dose in the label is like

(28:24):
the low doses conservative day, very very conservative, and if
you're actually wanted to create change in the body, sometimes
you need higher levels than what's actually on the label.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
As we head into our middle years, we see a
lot more arthritis popping up, or we just you know,
with thanks to perimenopause and the mystery of perimenopause, aches
and pains, enjoying pains you know that can't be explained,
and things like that. You hear a lot of products
that promote good joint health. What is good for our joints?

Speaker 3 (28:59):
I think it's about understanding that naturally, as we age
the joints, so like any parts in a car, everything's
going to get a lot more worn. And so the
more you can protect your joints through anti inflammatory lifestyle,
maybe making sure you've got enough good essential fatty acids
in your diet, all that prevention is actually more helpful

(29:22):
than actually waiting until you have severe joint pain and
then you try and put supplements in. Because one thing
I will say about supplements, there is nothing for instant
pain relief. So if you're looking for a magical pill
that's going to get rid of your pain instantly, like
panidoal or neurofin, you will not find it in your supplements.

(29:43):
It will not be there because there's nothing for instant
pain relief. And that's where if you're looking for supporting
your joints, it would be more making sure you've got
the right joint support there before you have a lot
of joint pain. And a lot of that comes down
to maybe locking at your genet. If you know your
mother and your grandmother had arthritis and needed kneed replacements

(30:05):
and hip replacements, you might actually be a bit more
cautious and be like I'm going to be a bit
more preventative and put in an anti inflammatory diet. Be
mindful what type of movement you do, so maybe don't
become a marathon or ultramarathon runner where you're going to
get more wear and tear. It's just pointing maybe and
maybe putting in a little bit more joint support, especially
if you know you love exercise and you want to

(30:27):
have that extra support. It might be around putting in
some joint nutrients, which would be things like glucosamine, controutin
all your minerals really good for joint connective tissue. Maybe
looking at collagen which actually obviously there's mixed views on collagen.
It is collagens on our list one of the fad
things that's kind of out there. But those sorts of

(30:49):
things more supporting connective tissue and holding the joint structure
really good. When it comes to all your anti inflammatory
sort of herbs, it's more looking at ucing information. So
if you don't have joint pain, they're actually not going
to prevent joint damage unless you know you just want
to keep that support with the anti inflammatory. If you

(31:11):
know you're getting a little bit achy, then that's where
you want to bring in those more things like tumoric
and maybe boswalia, which we may or may not have
heard of before, but it's in really nice anti inflammatory
things like Devil's core another herb that's really good for
anti inflammatory as well. But those are going to reduce inflammation,
so if you're feeling a bit achy.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Once you have they're going.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
To be helpful. But once again, it comes back to
what you said before. It's where your body is at
right now, what it's dealing with, looking forward and coming
up with a sort of a specific plan for you
and kind of what you might need in things. Should
we finish off a few, should we go through a
few more, we'll get to collegen a few are more
of the supplements which sort of come under anti aging.

(31:52):
But look, should we talk really quickly about vitamin C
because of course there is a tendency, especially in winter,
that we need to dose up on vitamin C to
boost our immunity. Is that necessary?

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Well, that's really I would call it misunderstanding of vitamin
C because vitamin C is actually an antioxidant, so it's
more going to clean up free radicals in your body.
It has actually not really any pathways in boosting your immunity.
And instead, if you did have any extra free radicals,

(32:24):
like if you're running or if you're getting sick, then
you get those free radicals, then the vitamin C will
actually more help you with cleaning up infection. So actually
more helpful to you when you're sick or feel like
you're getting sick, then it is helpful you take prevented daily, yes, okay,
And that's where there's so many other great options for
I'd call them immune modulating, so basically something that would

(32:48):
up regulate your immune system if it needed it, or
bring it down to normal if it didn't need that
sort of support. And that's where really your things like
mushroom products, and that's not magic mushrooms, but instead the
mushrooms like rishi, shitaqi, turkey tail, all things that are
supporting with immune modulation and supporting that balance of the

(33:10):
immune system, they're going to be more helpful to keep
you well over winter.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Mushrooms are interesting. You tried much the cancer, didn't you.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, And I didn't use them during chemo because they
were a little bit contraindicated as far as I was weird,
But I did use them afterwards to support my immune
system as I recovered. I mean, I don't know where
they you know, but I was glowing with health for
quite some time after that.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
You can actually usually if you're taking something like that
that has a good active ingredients, you can actually see
how it's affecting the immune system by just your basic
complete blood count, because there's immune cells in this, so
you can see how white blood count, liversites, neutral feels,
how they're behaving when you're taking something that is an
immune modulator and giving your immune system that support.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
And those things did recover quite quickly because they are
obviously really badly knocked around. I don't you know, as
I say, I'm not sure, but it was a really
quality product that I was actually getting from the States
through a friend who was a practicing medicine at Chinese medicine.
I don't know if we can get them here. They're
probably incredibly expected. I can't even remember the brand name,

(34:16):
but you know, and also even if they weren't, I did,
I didn't mind taking them. They were quite nice.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
It's interesting you should say that because there's actually I've
looked into other research over the years around even just
that belief that what you're taking is working. And actually
that's even big with medical treatment. There's actually a lot
of research that he's done on even medical treatments that
they know technically don't actually work that well, but if

(34:43):
the person believes it's going to work, it's going to work.
And I think that also comes down to sometimes the supplements.
If somebody's taking something and they're told that it's going
to reduce their inflammation or it's going to boost their immunity,
then maybe there's an element of like there's active ingredients
plus the mindset that's like this is working for.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Me, and you might also be doing other healthy things,
like you might be following a healthier diet at the
same time and all that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
And they usually go hand in hand. Generally, when people
are like I'm working on my houth, they don't just
generally take something they're usually ready for, like Okay, I'm
going to look at the diet, I'm going to look
at sleep, and I'm going to look at exercise. And
I think that's where when you look at your overall
well being, supplements is not top of the list. It's
actually further down the list until you've got the foundations

(35:32):
of your health. So nutrition and sleep was I Sleep
is just as important as nutrition, Like if you're not
sleepy enough, even if you eat well, you will not
be healthy. And then also making sure you're getting stress
management and exercise and get the foundations right first.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
So when it comes to sleep, some people swear my
magnesium has made a huge difference to the sleep, and
other people came it hasn't made a difference at all.
But we hear a lot about magnesium these days too.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Yeah, magnesiums actually some than quite safe for people to take.
It's more to do the type of magnesium that I
think people don't look at. There's actually loads of different
types of magnesiums and how well they absorb into the body,
and some will have more of effect of having a
laxative effect on the gut than others.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
But they do absorb differently. So powder might absorb better
than a tablet. It's not so much powder to a tablet.
It's the type of form of magnesium. So the two
that are more organic forms of magnesium are magnesium citrate,
magnesium glycerate or biglycrate, same thing, and they are highly
absorbable forms of magnesium. When you're looking at things like

(36:39):
magnesium oxide. I personally wouldn't suggest anyone takes magnesium oxide
as it doesn't have good clinical research to back it up.
And that's where when you're picking a magnesium it's like, okay,
well what sort of magnesium?

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Same with zinc, there's lots of different types of zinc.
It's not all one thing called zinc. It's actually there's
zinc picolate by glacera, you know, and they all do
have slightly different actions in how they absorb in the
body too.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Okay, well keep going because we want we want to
get as much out of this as we possibly can.
Jim go as we hear a lot about protein powder
and creatine. Obviously, again I think you're going to tell
us there's a large variety of protein powders out there,
and the way you take it will make a difference.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
Protein is like the hit thing at the moment, Like
there's always the thing that's like in the limelight. Protein
is huge at the moment, and I think when you're
looking at protein, like I personally don't have a problem
with protein powders, depending on the quality of them, So
looking if they do have any artificial flavors, colors additives
added into the protein powder. But also you should be

(37:45):
looking at food first, and powder is just more if
you are needing that extra boosters. So if we look
at them more as an extra booster rather than our
first choice of protein for each meal, because nobody is
going to have a protein powder and breakfast, lunch, and dinner,
or hopefully they don't because it is at the end
of the day, is still an ultra processed food. You

(38:07):
don't bump into protein powder when you're out in nature.
So I think it's about reminding yourselves that it's still
in the ultra processed food category and that if you're
using it, great, but you should use it more as
the additive to help you maybe reach your protein.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
That's exactly right, because it is quite hard according to
what the protein recommendations are to get that for me
in a day in my food so and I don't
need a lot of meat, so the protein powder I
use a vegetarian one.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
And for some people that can also be super helpful
because it can also reduce the load on the gut
when you're having those protein powders. When it comes to
protein bars, please read the label because some will just
give you a very sore, bloated tummy with the sugar alcohols,
and they're actually quite high calories, so you actually won't
feel that full. I feel like you've satisfied, like you've

(39:01):
had a big meal, but you've eaten a huge amount
of calories generally in a protein.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Bar, I don't get that's the time.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
So it's something to be really cautious of, probably more
so than protein powders. And then when it comes to creatine,
there is actually a good clinical research on creatine is
actually something quite safe for most people to take. Exception
if you do have any kidney issues, definitely check with
your doctor as well as if you have on any

(39:29):
blood pressure medications, might want to be a bit more
cautious around that. And then also just knowing that you
can get a bit of fluid retention, which is for
women in particular, might not be their thing that they
are side effect that they don't like and they might
want to just start slowly. And that's the thing with
things like creating, especially if you've got a powder, is
that just dosing it cautiously if you're trying something new,

(39:52):
and you can even monitor how the creatine's working in
the body by doing a blood test for the kidney
function because nine is the byproduct of creatine. So if
you're overdosing, you'll see it in your blood tests.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Because we hear that it could be quite good for
premenopause and menopause or women. Absolutely, they help with a
variety of things.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah, really good for cognition, keeping up lean muscle mass,
and there's actually good significant studies there for it. And
I think it's just been mindful around how you dose.
It is really what you want to be cautious of.
And then when it comes back to quality of supplements.
You know, recently there was the push gummies that were
creating product. You know that somebody tests them and actually

(40:34):
contain no creating so or virtually no creating. So just
know that just because it might say it's got three
to five grams of you know, creating and it does,
it really pick a good quality one. And it should
be microlized so it's small molecules that it can actually
absorb into the body. And when it comes back to
those things, just in general supplements when it says gummies,

(40:57):
so I think mindful not you know, especially not a
small child that and you can swallow supplements because generally
a gummy is sugar additives. They've usually got gelatine and
to make them into a jelly. They're really like any
a lolly, but we like to pretend that we're not
eating a lolly because we're having a supplement because it's

(41:17):
come out of a supplement container. However, the quality of
a gummy is usually very low because they have to
put a lot of additives in to make a gummy.
So if you if you can't swallow tablets, maybe look
at powders before gummies. And usually I would only look
into gummies if I had a very picky child in
the clinic that I couldn't get anything into them and

(41:40):
all the other options and I'm getting a little bit limited,
then I might start looking at chewaballs or gummies.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Okay, well you wanted to take some marijuana, just kidding.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
A lot of people are putting electrites in their water
on the every day, like literally just at their desk.
Is that necessary?

Speaker 2 (41:57):
No?

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Thank you for ex simple answer, And I think that's
where electrolytes. Yeah, they're important to keep the body in balance,
but unless you're sweating a lot the body's great at
staying in its homeo status balance, like it knows how
to regulate things. And if you're taking too much electrolytes
and you're just sitting around, they're actually mainly sodium and

(42:19):
sodium what effect that has is actually up it helps
you absorb water. If you have more blood volume or
more water intake, you're gonna have more blood volume, which
is that you're going to put your blood pressure up.
So something to be really careful around, because too much
sodium is actually going to affect your blood pressure regulation.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
But if you were doing some sort of full on
training for a you know, if you're an athlete of
some sort, and you know, it can be.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Used any hardcore training where you're running or sweating a lot,
or you know, anything where you're sweating a lot. So basically,
if you're really or in a hot climate, or if
you had a gastrobug, really good place for electrolytes. So
there's definitely a place for electrolytes, but it's more around
like illness, vomiting, diarrhea, intense exercise, extreme heat. So if

(43:08):
you've gone from here to you know, Thailand and you're
not used to the heat and you're suddenly sweating a lot,
then yeah, take electrolytes every day. You live in New
Zealand and it's winter and you're not sweeting. Probably okay
for beginners.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
If you're taking electrolytes, like if you're taking them in
a gel or whatever, and you haven't usually used the
caffeine ones, don't start using the caffeine ones.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Wow, it's something to be cautious of.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
If you're training hard, then you don't want to be
throwing too much caffeine and.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Nic and then wonder why you can't get to sleep
that night.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yeah, totally, you're And you mentioned in collagen before in
association will joint health and things, but it is often,
you know, something that people are very attracted to instead
of protein powder. They might be throwing the collagen into
their smoothie because they want, you know, luscious hair and
strong nails and things like that, or good skin. Maybe
we could just talk very briefly about things like collagen.

(44:02):
And I know that there are a lot of other
anti aging sort of trends I think which people are
going to hear about soon, like m N or NAD
plus and things.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Yeah, longevity is really the big thing and especially if
you're a big social media follower, you'll be like, oh,
I need the next longevity product, and collagen's probably i'd
say it's on the phase out phase. Yeah, it's really pete.
And if you think back through history, there's always fad
products from like sperrillina powder, nonny powder and weak grass

(44:30):
and coconut product.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
You know, most people be like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
I did that, and then they're still around, like they
haven't gone anywhere, they're just not popular as much anymore.
And that's where really your collagen has become really trending.
And I think it's looking at what's in your collagen
because they can have it can be all the sort
of leftover ingredients, which means it can also contain things
like heavy metals. To be careful around what you're putting in.

(44:59):
But there's like, actually, when it comes to collagen pearls
and powders, our bodies cannot absorb collagen in its whole form,
so instead look in how can you get it through
boosting it through your diet, and that comes through eating
protein rich foods. Vitamin C helps the synergize collagen in

(45:19):
the body, as well as the other nutrients that actually
help with collagen production. So it's not just that you
need the collagen, but actually you need those other nutrients
that helps your body synthesize collagen production in the body.
So it might be that you're adding things like bone wrath,
maybe eat more but more fish and chicken and eggs
and those are all going to help with collagen formation

(45:41):
within your own body. And getting whole foods such a
good way of doing it.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
What's all this in mn in nad's business.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, minn and NAD plus is like pretty trending. I
personally find that it's still in the area would call
needs more research phase, Like it's still lots of research underway,
but I think knowing that why you're taking it. So
those sorts of products are really working around cellular energy

(46:12):
production and upregulating sort of mitochondria function, which is like
the batteries within your cells, and yes they are the
building blocks in the body. My biggest hesitation around them
is that upregulate cellular function, which is great if you
have healthy cells in your body, but what if you
have some cancer cells? Like what effect is that going

(46:35):
to have? And that's where I feel like sometimes products
can get rolled up out in the market and they
might be still in that research development phase, or the
research may have been done by the supplement company that
makes it, which makes it very very bias. And I
think that's where it'll be interesting to see where that
goes over the years to come. Knowing that practitioner only brands,

(46:59):
which are brand that you can only access through seeing
an integrative doctor or naturopath or chiropractor, they don't have
lots of MNY or NDA plus not really out in
any of the ranges, which for me is usually alarm
bows is not enough clinical research to actually then be

(47:20):
putting them under the clinical brand.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
So if you see that coming through on your socials,
do a little bit more research. Just be a little
wary of that.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
Absolutely do the research. And if you know you've had
a history of cancer or family history of cancer, I'd
be a bit more careful around putting it in. If
you're a little bit unsure, you're better to pick just
a simple B vitamin because you will do less harm.
And I think knowing that when we start dosing really high,

(47:46):
we want to be cautious. Even if they might make
you feel good short term, you just want to still
be mindful of what you're putting in and what's the
benefit and the risks.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Of it too mindful. It has come up a lot,
hasn't it. We have given a lot of information.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Sorry, I know, I think we could probably talk for
another hour on this fascinating We could throw so much
at you, but what we are at a time, Erin
is thank you so much for coming back and doing
another episode with us on the little things. Very much
appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Well, there was a bit of information there.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Always it was a lot, wasn't it. I'm sorry we've
given you another one of those ones. We listen to
it on your walk and then listen to it again
at home with a pen and paper, because yeah, there
was a lot of really very useful information in that.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
I think it's a really fascinating topic. I mean, I
personally feel for me, I like, try and get everything
I need out of my diet. But there are absolutely
times in our lives where our body needs some support
or we have a deficiency. It absolutely should be looking
to finding the best possible solution to help us out
and to help us on our way in things. Didn't
realize it was so as complicated.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
It was.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
I didn't. Well, I've always I've always sort of been
I've always wanted a test for iron before I took
an iron supplement. And we learned a lot about iron
doctor Levy recently, and I've always so I've always I've
always sort of take gone down the blood test route
before I kind of tear into anything. And yet now
there's so many questions to ask, isn't there there is

(49:26):
really think about a lot of questions to ask, a
lot of you know the importance of making sure that
it's not doing any harm to you.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Well, iron is the perfect You've given the perfect example.
You wouldn't go I personally wouldn't go take an iron
supplement without any evidence for it, right. I probably wouldn't
even take a probiotic. It's been my money on a
probiotic if I, you know, was having showing no signs
of any gap issues.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Actually we didn't even touch on there because but that
is in itself, there are so many different as Aaron
would tell you, just like she did with magnesium and zinc,
there were so many different kinds of probudcies. Actually, go
back and listen to Will Yes Bolshwitz, stop the will Boss,
and if we told he talked about the best ones
to take if that is of interest to you. No,

(50:13):
I thought that was really interesting, and I think it's
really interesting in New Zealand about the regulation and the
lack of regulation and things around that. So just reminding
people to double check, you know, the brands that maybe
they're they're purchasing. And I don't want to always be
the tide hoss on this podcast, but my god, there
are so many competing things for our money. Why on
earth would we go and buy a multi vitem and

(50:34):
we've got no indication for needing or no idea whether
it's doing us any benefit. You're better to spend your
money on going to see someone like Aaron. And if
you are feeling a particular way, if you've got a
particular symptom, if your diet isn't hitting it, if your
diet isn't cutting it, if your exercise isn't cutting it,
if you're still feeling blah, you're seeing doctor, your blood testing. Okay,

(50:56):
you've taken all the things off the list. Healthylbout style.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, absolutely, I think it's very very easy just to
just go through and grab something off the shelf. But
and I'm not saying they're not useful. I'm not even
saying they may have a place, but gosh, you know,
we're putting it in our bodies and there is a
evenits We read an article preparation for this person in
the States was having thought he was doing himself a

(51:21):
favor and ended up in liver failure. I mean it's
quite you know, not to be too alarmist about it.
I did ask about the fatty Essa's people. That's your
olive oil and your avocado and things like that, so
that's easy to get.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
You can find erin at Aaron O'Hara dot co, Doosh
and Z and of course you can hear her every
Sunday morning on the Sunday Session. She's our wellness contributor
on just before eleven. Have you got a little tip
of something that's brought your joy this week?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Oh? Yes, Well you were talking about connecting with old friends.
I've made a couple of new friends, which has been
a surprising. I thought I was kind of my dance
card was fault and anybody else, And it actually isn't
about needing. It's just about enjoying the company of some
people from time to time. Totally different lafestyle, no kids,

(52:08):
not even a pet, fancy free fun, a lot younger
than us. Actually that's kind of starting to sound weird now.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
But just just waiting for you to say, and we're swinging,
but we just meet for a beer or we go
to a quiz lad or something.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
It's really fun.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
I think you're too old to make new friends. Reason
I don't know, Like it's busy, and we just don't
think about that. We think to ourselves we don't have
time for our old friends, so we don't. And maybe
it is a function of your kids leaving home too.
Maybe that's why we're a couple of guys that are
because that's my son said to the other day, said
what have you been up to? And I told her
he goes, you guys are really getting out and about
and I'm like, yeah, well now that we've we've spent
nineteen years racing, you go at a time on our hands.

(52:46):
This is great, And what about you, Francisca sunshine has
not been gorgeous? That simple find the corner of the
room where the sun is, you know, coming into the house,
or where it hits the garden, and just take a
cup of tea and just go and sit outside, shut
your eyes for five minutes and just taken this unshine.
Yes too good, all good. Thank you for joining us
on our new Zealand Herald podcast series, The Little Things.

(53:07):
We hope you share this podcast with the women in
your life so we can all get the right support
we need.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
You can follow this podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and for more episodes from us on
other topics, head to inzaid Herald dot co dot zid
and we'll catch you next time on the Little Things.