May 16, 2025 • 45 mins
Francesca and Louise have been trail running for several years now, and while they love it as a hobby, both know how menopause and ageing can have an impact on getting into exercise and maintaining it.
So this week, they are talking to Cathy Duffy, a running coach with Mile 27 in Australia, and who also has a Bachelor of Human Movement Science. She is focused on making sure women feel safe and comfortable when it comes to exercise, not only to achieve their goals, but to train with consideration of hormonal impacts during the various stages of their lives.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hi, I'm Francesca Rudkins and I'm Louise Area and this
is season four of our New Zealand HEI podcast Little
Things Good to have you with us, And this podcast
we talk to experts and find out all the little
things you need to know to improve all areas of
your life. And today we're going to cover off our
mental and physical health and how to have a good
laugh or possibly cry as we try and motivate you
to hit a trail.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
So if you're at all interested in putting on some
trainers and hitting out the door for a walk or run,
or better still doing it on a trail, or you're
already enjoying the benefits of running but you want to
step it up and tackle on an event, than this
podcast is for you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Those of you who have been following us since season one,
you'll know that lou and I met when are now
eighteen year olds where it can do together. Our joint
love of exercise in the outdoors is only one of
the reasons we're friends. But it sure has taken us
on some pretty crazy adventures, isn't it Sometimes in that
excellent role direction, Yeah, it's totally very much so. I
mean we've always been really active over the years, Loo
We've done boot camps and boxing and training. We've kind
(01:05):
of tried everything, haven't we. We've sort of been there
and done that. But then things kind of changed a
little bit when you came up with this brilliant idea
to walk a hundred k's for the ox Fan. Yeah,
was the odd span one hundred kilometer walk.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It really didn't seem as long in my head as
it was when we did it.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
We had no idea what we're doing when we decided
to do it, which it was amazing. It was an
amazing adventure. But the one thing that we realized we
got from it was that we'd both grown up enjoying
the outdoors, but lives are busy, we're working, we've got
young kids. We hadn't really kind of been out there much,
and all of a sudden, we were spending days, literally
(01:45):
days walking tens of yeah and a lot of kilometers,
and we were like, this is amazing, this is fantastic,
this is just we just loved it. But then we
both were like, when it was over, we don't really
have the time to be walking all day in the bush.
And then you came up with your second grade idea.
(02:06):
You've had more than two ideas, but within this context,
and you went, hey, there's this thing called trial running.
We should we should give it a go. But we
didn't actually really know that much about it.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And we didn't actually realize when we entered our first
half marathon event. I think it was about what was
it right? Yeah, it was twenty one. Yeah, it would hill,
what it would entail.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
And how different it is to running running totally.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, it's so much more that you know, the terrain
is completely different, so it's more exhausting for the body,
but also you're just going up and down all the time.
I think the third that would hill. I think we
came in third and fourth to last. I think there
were a couple of people behind us and they were
about seventy.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Five years old.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Do you remember when we turned up and I were
literally we were packing up these up there event was over,
they were literally packing up. And also one person gave
us a little clap as we crossed the line.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I point out there probably were seventy five year olds
in front of us as well. Yeah, but the trail
running is really amazing because there are the likes of
us new bees edit and plodding along and wondering why
everybody's walking up the hill? We're going for a run,
aren't we? You know it's no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I always walked, you always ran. You're always like, no, no,
you've got to run. No, you don't.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, because my psyche was running, running, running, and that's
not how trail running works. And then of course you've
got the young guns just flying past you, and she's
just like, how do you even do that? Look, we
were hooked, won't we absolutely? And we found lots of
different ways of doing it. We fast pack great walks now,
which is when you sort of walk run one of
(03:39):
the great walks and do them in a couple of
days and things like that.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
What do you love about it?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I think it's the company first and foremost the nature.
It's getting back to those things that I did do
when I was a kid. You know, when you're a child,
you went for a bushwalk with your parents, you you know,
they go at the walk behind talking with their mates
and we would just tear through the bush and having
a ball, playing games, all sorts of things. It kind
(04:05):
of I think that's what it brings back for me.
And it's quick because I'm really impatient.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
It's kind of quick. I mean, we've got to make
it really clear here. We're not amazing athletes. Please don't
knock up any of our times because we undertake all
this in a bid for a good time. Lots of laughs, Gosh,
we laugh. We do like the core medals and maybe
a personal best. But these adventures can be really fulfilling
in lots of ways, can't they.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, and I'm you know, I'm all for a tramp
as well. I think that there's lots of fun. But
I'm not a gear person. The thing I loved, always
loved about running was it. All it took was a
pair of shoes. And okay, so now I might throw
five kilograms on a backpack.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
We like the gear, it's just different. It's just not
lots of gear. No, I like really cool, light, effective gear. Yeah,
I don't like buying it, but I like it.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
No, I don't. But the other the thing is, and
we've talked a lot this season about all the different
things that we know are good for us, and everybody
keeps on telling us. Time and nature, right, connection with
a friend, early morning light, if you get out there
on the trail first thing in the morning. You know,
you start to see regulars, you get your morning light,
(05:18):
you get your nature. You're ticking off three your health
goals before you've even sort of started the day. So
we want to share the joy today of getting out
into the bush with you and convince you to take
on a new challenge. But we know it can be
difficult getting motivated to take on a new physical challenge
heading into middle age, as our bodies are changing, are
we still up for it? We've certainly noticed some changes
over the years, just a few.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So we have got the perfect guest today. Kathy Duffy
is an extraordinary trail runner. She runs marathons, ultra marathons
and milers and yes, that is one hundred miles. She's
now coaching with the team that she ran for mile
twenty seven. She's got a Bachelor of Human Movement Science
as well as other qualifications in this area, and it's
particularly interested in making sure that women feel safe and
comfortable when it comes to running, not only that they
(05:59):
achieve their goal, but to train with consideration of hormonal
impacts during various stages of our lives. So we are
humbled to be joined by Kathy Duffy.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Welcome, thank you, thank you very much for having me.
I'm very excited to be here and get this party started.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
We are very excited to have you with us as well. Gosh,
you've done some extraordinary races. What would be the toughest
that you've done?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Without a doubt, I would have to say the toughest
has been the one hundred mile races that I've done,
And I probably don't need to explain that to the
audience because one hundred miles is a very long way.
The longest I've done is forty nine hours over one
hundred and eighty one kilometers, and that experience is transformative,
(06:44):
to say the least. It's an exceptional experience, and I
guess it's what draws me back. It's a very unique
position to be in, and you learn a lot about
yourself and you take what you learn in an ultra
out into your life and it's something that I hold
very very dear.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So is that why you do it? Why do you
do it?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
That's a great question, because you're like, that sounds crazy,
So why would you do it? For me? It's probably
more about an evolution. I was very fortunate to find
a sport, and for me it was trial running, which
I absolutely love and it brings me a very high
level of peace that I think you need in our
life and we need in our lives as busy women.
(07:27):
And the evolution of the sport meant that I was
running longer and longer and longer, and it took me
quite a while to even consider doing that one hundred
mile distance. But when I committed to that one hundred
mile distance and then experienced it, it just provides a
moment in time that's so precious, Like life's very busy,
(07:49):
and when you start to push your boundaries, regardless, everyone's
boundaries are different, but for me, it was that one
hundred mile difference. And when you push your boundaries, the
busyness of life fades around and you're only focusing of
that one moment in time. And the further you push
into that and exhaust yourself, you get to this really
(08:11):
interesting space of emotional vulnerability that opens up your heart
in ways that I hadn't experienced before. And I'm not
sure if this makes sense. If you've done the longer distance,
it may may not resonate with you, but it's an
intense experience and you'll often see it the end of
you know, a race finish line. There's a lot of
emotion and it's just the culmination of the build up
(08:33):
of the journey and this eruption of the emotions that
you feel. And I think that's why I do it.
It just is amazing. As I said, that eruption of
emotion and what you gain from that experience, it just
spills out into the rest of your life. And I
want other people to feel that, like it's quite the
journey and the race is the icing on the cake.
(08:54):
But it's that buzz that I love. I love the
journey and I love the icing on the cake moment.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
When we were doing our first trail marathon was the
Tara where a trail marathon, and the last fifteen k's
I wasn't hugely prepared, probably when it comes to nutrition
and hydration, and we'll talk about this a little later.
And I about three four k's before the end, I
was standing on the side of the trail literally hugging
a tree, telling Louise that I was going to die.
I was having a heart attack and I couldn't finish,
and I was so hot. Can you remember this, and
(09:22):
you stood there very patiently on the trail because it
was another hill ahead of us, and we were just
likeing to come on next, you know, And I really
in that moment didn't think I could do it, And
obviously I was going to do it. I knew somehow
deep down I was going to do it. And we
did finish. And I know exactly what you mean that
finish line, that just knowing that you can hit a moment,
you can sort of get to that hurdle and overcome.
(09:45):
It is interesting how that then in your life you go,
this isn't so hard, this isn't so tough. I can
keep moving forward. Yes I can keep going.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I feel like you could. Yes, you feel like you
can do anything after that. And I love your story
about one needs that nice calm friend, don't they that
can help talk you through and get you through. But
to me, I see these events as problem solving your
way to the end, like something will happen. And for
you in that Tarawera, you were pushing your boundaries and
you hit the wall and you were faced with the
(10:17):
decision and you needed to problem solve your way to
the end and you did it. And that is just
the most amazing thing that you can do. That reassurance,
that confidence, that fight, that spirit in you, Like, that's
a special gift.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I think. The only other time I would say that
I've actually felt that is actually childis it's that kind
of you've got to get to the end, you've got
to push through, you've got to stay calm, and you
do go kind of inside yourself quite quite a lot.
And I don't think it.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Matters whether it's forty two, one hundred or ten case,
to be honest with you, like at the moment where
you know, we're going up every Saturday morning and doing
a tin k and it's mostly walking for various reasons.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
But you know, it's not that it's not that we
have to dig too deep for that one, but it's
the sense of achievement of having gotten up early on
a sad day, gone and done it. Hit this quite.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Nasty hell that's on the way yep, and yeah's seen
some regular folks and just know that everybody out there
is doing it for the same reason.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
For that peace of mind.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, you can't underestimate the achievement in that and the
impact that has in your life, Like because it is
a choice and we are busy, and it's sometimes difficult
or it can be very challenging to carve out that
space for yourself and your own well being. We all know.
I've I've been through it. You go through different seasons
of your life, and I've got two children that they're
(11:43):
grown now, but it was definitely times where it's hard
to carve out that space. But I think we deserve it, jeez,
we deserve that. And I think that if you can
carve that out and you can pop your shoes on
and you can spend time in nature, whether it's walking, running, crawling,
I don't care. If you get out there and do
that for yourself, that's a win.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
In my books, really keen to talk about how people
can start trail running. It's become hugely popular. Actually, just
in the introduction, we're talking about that first trail run
we did where we came pretty much last, and then
as we got more experience KFE, we look we'd kind
of go, oh, we're kind of in the middle of
the pack, or oh, we're kind of narrow the pack
(12:22):
and our age group we got really excited. But it's
actually dawned on me now, Lou that it was just
getting more and more popular, and there are lots more
people doing it. I don't think actually people necessarily getting better.
It's just we were used to it and slightly fitted
the new people started. Well, I'm going to give us
more credit than that. I think we were getting technically
better because it is it is a little bit more
technical than going for a run on the pavement, right,
(12:44):
so you do have to start scanning and working out
where you're going to walk and where you're going to
run and all that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Look, it is so if we're talking about somebody who's
keen to get into trial running, and we're targeting I
guess the conversation at beginners. Look the similarities with running
around your streets. You have to know where you're going
and you have to keep safe, right, So that's the
same for when you head on the trail. But there
is another component that you need to consider because trail
(13:15):
offers I guess, some unique challenges. The environment can be
very different, the weather can change, so there are some
safety considerations that you need to take on board. I'm
a big advocate for being very aware of where you're
going to run, and you can go on the internet
on national parks, there's all trails apps, there's council sort
of sites. I use Strava. I don't know if either
(13:37):
of you Strava, but for those out there listening who
don't know what that is, look, I do pay for
a subscription and I'm not affiliated with them anyway. But
you can go and see on there and you can
see exactly where people run and the darker the blue line,
the more people have run that, so you know that's
a commonly run trail. So things like that can help
you kind of work out where to run. And you
(13:58):
need to understand, I guess, the risks in your environment.
So for me, I live in Australia, so there's things
like snakes and you know that I need to consider.
Weather's another thing you need to think about. The weather
can be much more dynamic out on the trails. In
one moment, you might be down in a valley. The
next moment you might be up on a ridge line,
and especially over in New Zealand, the weather can change
(14:21):
very quickly depending on where you were. So I don't
want to overwhelm anyone. I think it's a good idea
for people to know that you just start small, you
start with what you're comfortable with and just be reassured
that you will grow with what you need on the
trail as your training evolves. So my training when I
started was just little outbacks on fire trails, and then
(14:44):
I gradually got more and more adventurous, and then I
met some people who I could then run with them,
and then I started to learn about what gear I
needed to take. So it's something that's really quite exciting
to learn about. And you don't need to start big
and look at the end. I don't most certainly don't
want people overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And if you have done a little bit of road running, Kathy,
and you think to yourself, oh yeah, I can, I
can run five k, don't presume that you know five
or ten k and the bush is same as five
or ten k. Like, don't get despondent because they're not
the same, are they.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That is a very important point there was So my story.
It's really interesting in that back on Yuesday in twenty twelve,
I went for a run just to set the year
in a good sort of, you know frame, and in
that run this thought comes to my head, where this
year I'm going to run a marathon twenty thirteen, I'm
(15:39):
going to run six foot track. Twenty fourteen, I'm going
to run Ultratrau Australia or one hundred. So I don't
know why I thought that. I didn't know how I
was going to get from A to B at all,
I didn't know anybody who'd done that, but I kind
of locked in that plan. So I did my road run,
so I was a road runner, and then all of
a sudden, I thought, Okay, now I've got to do
(16:00):
this trail of it this six foot track, which is
forty five kilometers through about two thousand meters of climbing.
So I went to my local trail. It's about four
and a half kilometers. There wasn't much climbing, but it
was very technical. And after that I went back to
my husband and I'm like, I don't know how I'm
going to do this. I can't even hold six minute pace.
(16:20):
I just had no idea about the differences between that
there are two different sports, so you do need to
take that into consideration. But as I said, if you
start small, you will start to learn how you move
and flow over the trails, and you'll start to learn
that hiking's okay and you're going to use different speeds.
(16:41):
It's just like one big fartlek session, right like speed play.
And then you'll start to learn that, oh, okay, this
is technical track with a lot of climbing. So I've
done ten kilometers on the road in about an hour.
I've done ten kilometers in the bush that's taken me
six hours. So those are the kind of things that
as you learn and grow. Was a trial run, you'll
start to understand that they're two very different sports.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, that's what took me by surprise. Francisca was more
prepared than I was. So we did that first half
in the trail and I went, what is everybody? Why
is everybody stopping and hiking up this hell? And I
was determined to run past them and didn't. The second hell,
I was like, oh, I get it.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
You can't do that. The hells are going to keep coming. Yeah,
we hadn't anticipated that. Trail running sounded lovely. We were
going to run through these beautiful valleys and gentle trails,
and then every event we did, we're like, oh my god,
there's so many hills, and then it occurred to us
that's the sport.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, but that's really important for people to understand. I
was very fortunate in just before I did my first
kind of trial race, I met a lady Natalie, who's
now a very close friend, and she'd done everything that
I ever wanted, and she took me under her wing
and she taught me everything. And I'm so blessed that
she entered my life because my learning curve was so
(18:00):
much faster and steeper. And that's why I really want
to help women in this space on their journeys, because
you know, just a bit of a helping hand goes
a long way. But I remember going on one of
those early runs with her, and the interesting thing was
we came to it. I won't even call it a
hill or a mountain, It was a bit of an
incline and she started walking and I was like oh.
(18:23):
And I remember saying, oh, so would you do this
in a race? And she's like yeah, And I'm like, ah,
So I had this permission, in this freedom to start
to understand that that's what tr running is about. It's
getting from a to B in the most efficient way
you can. And whether that is running or hiking, it
(18:45):
doesn't matter. Even the elites hike, even the elites hike,
so if they hike, we need to include that as
part of our training as well. Right, it's important.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah, the power walking up hells when I did a
lot of training, if I had didn't, you know, to
power walk up hills, there'd be times where you'd be
jogging beside.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I know, I was just thinking about that. There's a
times that i' I'm going to jog this and Franships
is just walking beside me quite furiously.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, Hey, Katy, if you if you are doing a
little bit of running or you have hit it out
and you've gone it to you, I'm quite enjoying a
five or a ten k, and I'm really loving this
time in the bush. If someone then goes, Okay, I
want to step it up and I want to do
an event, and I want to try and get to
a half marathon or a marathon, where do you start
in your thinking?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Well, firstly, excellent because you've got to be surrounded by
like minded people. And the trial community is amazing. And
some of my really good friends I've met through doing
events and I now run with and we support each other.
So I think it's really exciting. That's that's a way
to start developing your support networks and your resources, and
if you're in a lula, you can ring up you know,
(19:50):
Luise or Francesca and hey let's go for a run.
But yeah, to answer your question, I think it's good
to pick an event that speaks to you. You because
you want long distance running and running can be hard,
so you want to pick something that energizes you, that
gives you a bit of a lift. When I chose
my first one hundred mile race, everyone was saying wow,
(20:12):
like that's ridiculous to choose that. Forear first one hundred
mile race. It was through the Victorian Alps in Australia,
and it was more of an adventure course than a
running course. It was crazy hard, over ten thousand meters
of climbing. Damn it just it's something spoke to me.
So I think you need to pick something that lights
that little fire inside of you. I think is very
(20:35):
important because you're going to dedicate time towards this event.
But the good thing about picking an event is it
provides a sort of direction for your training, right, So
you want to obviously learn as much about that event
as you can. You want to know how far it is,
what kind of terrain that you're going to be running on.
Is it a fire trailer, is a technical single track?
(20:58):
Do you want to learn as much about the as
you can? You want to learn how much vert or
climbing or descending there is, what weather you will experience,
and all that information is what's going to guide your
training now. So you're not just training to just get
fit and be able to run and tick that box
I've done my three or four one hour runs in
(21:18):
the week. It starts providing direction for your training. So
an example is I know Kepler Over in New Zealand
is about sixty kilometers and two thousand or just over
two thousand meters of climbing, but I know most of
that climbing is in that first third of the race,
and then you've got this really runnable two thirds at
the end. So when you start evolving your long run,
(21:40):
you'll start to think, Okay, I need my body to
cope with the climbing, but I need to be able
to run because it's a running race, right. So your
long run one weekend might start to work towards more
climbing and descending. Then the next week you might want
it to be more runnable and you might be alternating those.
So see what I mean. The difference is it an
event starts to provide direction for your training, and then
(22:05):
the event is the icing on the cake, which I
alluded to before. The training is the fun part, you know,
you sort of get to tick all these boxes, you
get to feel a sense of achievement and strength, and
the race is sort of the icing on the cake,
just as the reward for all your hard work. So
I'm excited if anybody is sitting here and they're starting
to think maybe I should do an event.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean, we've been doing this and off for thirteen
years and you've just actually the opening's just dropped about
how to train. We did the Keepler as a fast pack.
It wasn't the event, but we did it over two
days instead of the three or four days it might
normally take. But we had to because of the weather.
We had to be flexible, and we had to change
the direction. So we didn't have that climb at the start.
(22:46):
We had that as a descent, but we did have
a nasty switchback on the way up, and I hadn't
trained for that, to be.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Honest with you. Kathy Louise some times, benest Luise sometimes
imagines things are going to be different than they are,
even when I tell her they're going to be the
way they are. We did talk about the incline there.
We did we did actually do some work.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I oh, no, totally. We did the cameras a billion times.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
We did.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
We actually did a lot of work for that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I just wasn't counting on that.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, no, it's and actually that's something we should bring up.
If you want to be a trail runner. It's not
just about the running. The strength work is really important,
isn't it. Kathy.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Look, definitely, strength is a big part of it. But
there's no doubt that if you want to be able
to run long distances, you need to be able to
run right. You need to get that level of volume.
But you also need to provide your body with a
strong foundation now and I think that's important through all
stages of your life. But it's equally so much more
(23:56):
important the older you get. I have to be honest,
I didn't do any strength work for a long period
of time. I had ten beautiful, eleven beautiful injury free
years in all my running, and I was running about
five times a week and it was great, and I've
done so much, and then I reached that point in
(24:18):
my life, which I guess you know what I'm alluding to,
where the hormones start to shift and there's different stresses
on your body, and I started to get my first
few niggles and then injuries. So that then led me
to learn about, well, what's now happening with my body,
what's changing, what do I need to know, what do
I need to do differently? And I think one of
(24:39):
you mentioned before about having flexibility with your training, So
that's when I've included strength work, and I think it's
very important. There's different ways to do that. Find a
way that speaks with you. But for me, it's going
into the gym and starting to lift a little bit
heavier as well. For me, I'm separating out the two things.
(25:00):
The strength work is a strong foundation, but I'm doing
that for the benefit to my bones and muscles and
they're not specifically kind of runner type actions. So that's
the difference for me. It's like there's a different focal
point for the types of things I'm doing in the gym.
(25:20):
But yes, strength is very important in terms of I
guess your longevity in the sport and because you know,
our body makes us do what we need to do
and we need to kind of look after and make
it as strong as possible.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
You're listening to the little things. And our guest today
is Ultra marathon runner and coach Kathy Duffy talking about
the joys of trail running. We'll be back after the break, Kathy.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Before the break, you were just saying about strength, and
I had an injury at achilles niggle and I went
to this particular physio and all over the reception area
is great kind of posters and things about being strong
for what you want to do and being strong as
(26:16):
you age. And the first thing the physia said to me,
which was mortifying, was this injury has occurred because you're
not strong enough to be doing what you're doing. You're
trying to ask your body to do something it's not
strong enough to be doing. And since then it still
took me another couple of years because that's just me.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
But now I love my strength training and I notice
I haven't had a niggle out of that ankle. It
was so painful for so long and just doing the
correct you know, building up the muscles around it to
support it. I suddenly realized the connectivity from my feet
to the top of my head.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
You know what I mean. It's crazy. How can I
get to fifty three and only just realize how my
body works.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Well, I think you're not alone, Luise at all. I
think that it's very common, and that is similar to
my experience. You know, nothing and then sort of hamstring
and then torn planet of fashion and then an ankle injury.
So it was all of a sudden. It's interesting you
kind of live in this body for so many decades
and all of a sudden, your body it just seems
like different. And when you're speaking about those posters, I
(27:22):
think in the last few years, I've developed this motto
where its function over face value. I pride how my
body functions much higher than how it's actually looking, if
that makes sense. So that's that's what I continually tell myself,
is how do I want to function when I'm eighty,
(27:44):
you know? And if I can't do some of those
things now, I need to really address those things. And
from a running perspective, running is very repetitive, especially when
we're doing road running, because most of us will do
most of our training on roads or local sort of
ovals and things like that with just a small portion
on the trails. But it's a repetitive sport that does
(28:04):
put stress on our body, so we need to strengthen
it so we can function as well as we can
as we age. It's a longevity issue as well.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Let's talk a little bit about keeping keeping active as
we age and sort of hit that perimenopause and menopause stage.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And I loved.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
It before we started this podcast, you called it the
glory years with a smile on your face, which actually
I like, I thought that was very positive approach towards it,
even if it didn't mean it, you know, even if
there was a little bit of psychasm in there. I'm
not sure you've kind of mentioned how we can be
more prone to injury, but there's a lot of things
(28:43):
that can kind of that the female middle age athlete
might come across. I mean, it can. Does it become
harder to maintain and build and look after our muscles
for example?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Short answer is yes. So the longer answer is there
are a lot of things that are happening in our
body behind the scenes as we age. And I know
that you've both done some really great podcasts on menopause.
You've had the Queen doctor Stacy Simson as well, and
she's amazing, And I do encourage people to go back
(29:18):
and listen to those because there's a lot of extremely
valuable information in those. But first of all, I want
women to know, regardless of the fact that they're aging,
is they can absolutely still do anything. Aging doesn't preclude
you from doing amazing things. I'm training a woman in
her sixties at the moment with her ultimate goal of
(29:38):
doing one hundred mile race. I know I've got two
other friends athletes who are doing their tenth UTA one hundred.
They're in their later fifties and they're going for a PB.
So think about that. So they started in their forties,
they're in their later fifties, and they're training to go
for a PB. So anything's possible.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
This heart press the hope for us, and I.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Most certainly haven't changed my goals as such. My goal
is to be the best I can be. Now that
may look a little bit different as I age, but
that's still my goal to optimize and maximize my potential.
But there are some things, yes, we need to consider,
and you mentioned muscles, so and I don't want to
(30:24):
go into a big education around menopause because you have
already dressed this in the past. But the just people
need to understand the impact of sort of fluctuating and
then withdrawing hormones is significant, and people need to know
that it's a head to toe condition and it's not
just about impacts your reproduction and hot flushes. It's a
(30:47):
head to toe condition. So the really good examples you've
mentioned muscles and bones. They're very dynamic tissue. They build up,
they break down, they build up, they break down. As
we're in this kind of transition around menopause, these things
break down more than they build up. And we don't
have estrogen to help build our bones and keep our
(31:10):
muscles as strong and powerful as they can be. So
we need to train a little bit differently. And doctor
Simms is great sheeese, As I said, I think you
had a training and menopause thing, but you need to
think you need that external stressor plus your protein dosing
to now do the best that you can for your muscles.
(31:31):
And we've already spoken about strength. So you might be
going into the gym to lift heavy, you might be
doing hit training, pliometric training. It might be if you're
able to add that to your training schedule, that's great.
If you're time poor and you can't add it, it
might be appropriate not to do that fifth run, to
swap it out for one of those strength sessions, because
(31:52):
you need this external stress. You need a different type
of input for the same level of output that you
had before. So things like that are really important. And
that's what caught me heading into peri menopause is I
didn't now have this different stressor to maximize my muscles,
(32:13):
and then I started to get some of these niggles
and then injuries, and hence it led me down the
path of kind of going to the gym and doing
some different type of training. And that's a big one.
And as I said, it's important in all seasons of
your life, but it's particularly important at this stage of
your life.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I absolutely loved that a whole what you've just said,
And if you need to rewind and listen to that again,
you've just really hit the nail on the head for
just sort of encapsulating exactly what happens. It's harder for
that the muscles to puleting faster, it's harder to build
it up, and I've got a personal bug beer at
(32:52):
the moment on social media about women sort of heading
back at with a bit of a whiplash moment of
I don't want to eat my protein, I don't want
to have all scottagecheet that, don't want to go to
the gym, I don't want to blah blah blah, do
what you like. But this is happening to your body regardless.
And if you want to go and do something and
enjoy it and not be injured, you know, no, there's
(33:14):
just not anough. There's no one there to pick you
up except for yourself at the end of the day.
So yeah, I really enjoyed that. Thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's interesting because the body starts to change a little bit.
I'm having to deal with I've had a knee problem
which has led to a lack of consistency and exercise,
which has led to a little bit of excess weight
around my tummy, Cathy, And it's really interesting how it
audious builds and then it suddenly makes it harder to
move and more difficult to move. So I'm reversing that.
(33:45):
I'm starting with getting rid of the gart and like
I'm coming back to being able to be. But you know,
you can hit another wall, a slightly different wall than
what being on the trail of just having that motivation
and feeling that you can kind of get up and
do it as well when you hit those middle age years.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah, there is a lot coming at us, isn't there.
Like the person that we knew for so many decades
is now like a bit different. It's like we're having
to kind of relearn ourselves. And as I mentioned, menopause
is a head to toe condition and as impacts to
our brain, which can infect like our motivation, we could
(34:25):
have new onset of depression, anxiety, and things like that.
The way our metabolic, so the way we use glucose
and things can change which can lead to that weight
changes and that sort of weight around your belly. There's
all these things going on. And I was having a
recent conversation with a friend who's a sports dietitian, Sylvia Feffer,
(34:50):
and she said something to me that just went in
my brain, And I'm going to tell you what she
told me. She said, you need to disentangle performance goals
from body image. Now, when I say that disentangle performance goals,
from body image. What do you both think?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I don't know. I sorry, say it one more time.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Disengage, So disentangle performance goals from body image. So whilst
you're thinking, I can let you know what how that
resonated with me. So if I disentangle, if I separate out,
So you're talking about my body looks a little bit different,
and it will over your lifetime when you go through puberty,
if you have children, your body will look different. And
(35:38):
this stage in your life is no different. And especially
let's add on aging as well as the impacts of hormones. Right,
So I'm looking in the mirror and I'm like, oh,
I'm carrying a little bit more around my belly. So
body image and how I perceive that. If I just
pop that to the side and I look at one
of my performance goals. So my performance goals at the
moment are there's a race I'm targeting. So I need
to train sensibly, need to have good recovery, I need
(36:02):
to have quality nutrition, I need to do my strength,
I need to get sort of sleep in I can
if I'm doing all the things to maximize my performance.
The irony of all of that is your body will
end up the best that it can be. So focusing
on your performance goals and doing everything you need to
(36:24):
in that space and the right things for your body
optimizes I guess the physicality of your body, which then
flows onto the mental side as well. And I think
that the issue when women start focusing on is this
belly weight or I don't like it? Aside from looking
at the performance goals, is what do women typically do
(36:49):
when they're concerned about their body image and want to
lose weight.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
We stop eating as much and we stop giving our
bodies the right nutrition.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yeah, you calorie restrict you might get obsessive about exercise,
and those two things will actually exacerbate the impacts of menopause.
So for me, that disentanglement of the two, and it
ties into my function over face value is what what
do you want to achieve for yourself right now? Where
(37:20):
do you want to be? What's important to you? And
my body will be what my body will be. And
I am so I'm so proud of what my body
allows me to do. And yes, I'm a fifty two
year old woman who's you know, got decades and decades
worth of societal pressures on me to look a certain way,
(37:42):
and I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm constantly reminding
myself that it's okay where I'm at because I'm doing,
as a fifty two year old, far more than what
some twenty year olds you can do, and I'm proud
of that.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
It's really, it's really, it's a great way to put it,
because I didn't really become terribly consumed about my weight
until it became a health issue and it stopped me
doing what I wanted to do. So in a way,
that's the same thing. It's kind of like, oh, actually,
so what is it you want to do? Okay, get
on with doing what you need to do, and the
other that side of it will come, you know. So
it wasn't so much that I was conscious of how
(38:16):
I looked. It was more that it was it was
having health implications and stopping me doing what I wanted
to do. Yes, so it's yeah, so oh coursh isn't
that interesting?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Hey?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Look, Kathy, really quickly, as we're getting older, should we
be doing more rolling and stretching in our agemes and
things like that? Does that make a difference?
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Well? Interesting? Look, I have to admit I'm probably the
worst at that, and a lot of ultratrail runners aren't
the best at rolling and stretching. And I think the
science probably is a little bit not too powerful in
terms of pointing towards the benefits of rolling and things
(38:57):
like that. But I think when I think sorry, I
think when I think of stretching, it comes back to
that functional side of things, and as I age, it's
it's important that I can move freely, and I need
to be able to move freely over the trails. So
there are some functional movements, and I know in our
(39:20):
sort of with our coaching, there's some sort of functional
strength type movements that can be concluded in your program.
There's another app leos moves that I signed up for recently,
which is these really functional, but they're stretching with strengthening
because I watch strength through that range of motion as
opposed to me just sitting there and just bending forward
(39:40):
and stretching out my hand strings. So I'm kind of
more looking for functional strength over the range of motion,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, the sterets are good. Yeah, we had a fabulous
session with her and the Built to Move They've got
some amazing stuff and the for functionality opening the hips. Yes,
kind of thing that can reject.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Yeah, there's a lot out there.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah, Hey, what about risk days.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I think rest days are very important, and I think
it's a real important part of understanding your body and
what you need. And I also think it's an important
part of your training regime because it allows for all
the adaptions from all your training to kind of take hold,
(40:32):
rather than you constantly putting these stresses on your body,
because training is another stressor. And I sort of shifted
some of my training along the way, and I started
training in the afternoon because I was opting for the
sleep because as we know, during kind of perimenopause, sleeping
can be a challenge. So sleep became more important. And
(40:52):
then I shifted when I trained. At the moment, I've
as I mentioned before, five days a week running, I'm
actually doing for it at the moment, but too are
on trail. Too are on the road, so that and
the trail ones are slightly longer, so I'm getting the
same volume, but I'm getting an extra day of recovery.
So recovery is very important for all athletes, especially athletes
(41:16):
as they age, and I think people need to give
themselves permission and understand that it is a very important
part of your training, and sometimes it's a better decision
to take a rest to day than to soldier on
if you're so fatigued and your body is aching, just
to tick that.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Box beautifully explained Kathy.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
It's just been wonderful to have you on the podcast.
I'm totally motivated. It's almost like we're starting again. Luise,
you kind of you've motivated us again. And what you
have achieved and I'm sure will continue to achieve, it's
just extraordinary. It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Look, I love this space and I really appreciate the
opportunity to have the discussion. I think it's really important
for women to know that you can do that. It's
very possible. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. Start small,
find your tribe. We can have more conversations and let's
just you know, build up the women in this sport
that we love so much.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, I really do think midlife. Maybe it's like me
and playing golf. I don't know, but I do think
midlife is a really great opportunity to start the stuff. Really,
we were forty when we started.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Oh me too, I was. I was forty. I did well.
I did that road marathon the year that I turned forty,
and so yes, in my forties and fifties, i've been
doing ultra trails. No, it's possible.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
That's great, Thank you so much. I love Kathy, so
do I.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
She's so amazing. But I did think to myself, we
both started trail running at the same time, Louise, Okay,
not you and I, but you and I and we
al said to.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Have alway done one hundred mile. Yet it could still happen.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
It could still happen if I can get my right
nef I could just get my right knee sort of.
Who knows, but I feel really positive about that now,
me too about It's like set of goal.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Just go for it.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Think about it too long, it's just do it.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
I have to make a phone call when I leave
here because I think I just said to you last
week that I've been working out quite a lot. I'm
seeing little changes, and I keep and my son is
my coach, because he's a strength and conditioning coach, and
I have been saying to him, can't you see a difference,
can't you see look at this muscle, look at it.
And he's constantly going, I don't care about what your
(43:43):
body looks, like I care about what your body can do.
And I was like, yeah, and everybody, you know, everybody
wants some credit for and he's not going to give
me it. And he's dead right, because I should be
disentangling my body from my performance. So yeah, I'm making
that phone call when I leave today.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
He'll be thrilled to get that. Yeah, his mother telling
him that he was right after all this time. I
loved Kathy's message that anybody can step outside the door
and start something new, regardless of our age and stage.
Might be a few more things to have in the
back of your mind and to think about if you're
heading into middle age. But it's absolutely doable. And women
are so good at endurance, especially when they.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Get oh yeah we are. That's a really good point.
And I think too, you know, like I said on
the intro, like we just keep being told nature, light movement,
and you know, if it doesn't matter, if it's not
for you, that there are parks close by you can do.
You know, you can walk in just perhaps don't do
your normal walk around one tree. He'll maybe just go
straight up the hill, try something different.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Find it convinced A like minded friend to join you,
because company always makes it so much better and you
can kind of support and motivate each other as you
go along, but also to have I'm god, if we laughed,
we have laughed, we cried and wet our pants, and
the wh we have, the places and the and the
places we have seen and done and been and everything
that's been amazing. And thank you so much for joining
(45:05):
us on our New Zealand Herald podcast series, Litle Things.
We hope you share this podcast with the women in
your life so we all feel motivated to start anything
new that we want to achieve at any agent stage exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
You can follow this podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and for more on this and other topics,
head to mzed herold dot co dot MZ.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
We'll catch you next time on the Little Things
Hi, I'm Francesca Rudkins and I'm Louise Area and this
is season four of our New Zealand HEI podcast Little
Things Good to have you with us, And this podcast
we talk to experts and find out all the little
things you need to know to improve all areas of
your life. And today we're going to cover off our
mental and physical health and how to have a good
laugh or possibly cry as we try and motivate you
to hit a trail.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
So if you're at all interested in putting on some
trainers and hitting out the door for a walk or run,
or better still doing it on a trail, or you're
already enjoying the benefits of running but you want to
step it up and tackle on an event, than this
podcast is for you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Those of you who have been following us since season one,
you'll know that lou and I met when are now
eighteen year olds where it can do together. Our joint
love of exercise in the outdoors is only one of
the reasons we're friends. But it sure has taken us
on some pretty crazy adventures, isn't it Sometimes in that
excellent role direction, Yeah, it's totally very much so. I
mean we've always been really active over the years, Loo
We've done boot camps and boxing and training. We've kind
(01:05):
of tried everything, haven't we. We've sort of been there
and done that. But then things kind of changed a
little bit when you came up with this brilliant idea
to walk a hundred k's for the ox Fan. Yeah,
was the odd span one hundred kilometer walk.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It really didn't seem as long in my head as
it was when we did it.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
We had no idea what we're doing when we decided
to do it, which it was amazing. It was an
amazing adventure. But the one thing that we realized we
got from it was that we'd both grown up enjoying
the outdoors, but lives are busy, we're working, we've got
young kids. We hadn't really kind of been out there much,
and all of a sudden, we were spending days, literally
(01:45):
days walking tens of yeah and a lot of kilometers,
and we were like, this is amazing, this is fantastic,
this is just we just loved it. But then we
both were like, when it was over, we don't really
have the time to be walking all day in the bush.
And then you came up with your second grade idea.
(02:06):
You've had more than two ideas, but within this context,
and you went, hey, there's this thing called trial running.
We should we should give it a go. But we
didn't actually really know that much about it.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And we didn't actually realize when we entered our first
half marathon event. I think it was about what was
it right? Yeah, it was twenty one. Yeah, it would hill,
what it would entail.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
And how different it is to running running totally.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, it's so much more that you know, the terrain
is completely different, so it's more exhausting for the body,
but also you're just going up and down all the time.
I think the third that would hill. I think we
came in third and fourth to last. I think there
were a couple of people behind us and they were
about seventy.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Five years old.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Do you remember when we turned up and I were
literally we were packing up these up there event was over,
they were literally packing up. And also one person gave
us a little clap as we crossed the line.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I point out there probably were seventy five year olds
in front of us as well. Yeah, but the trail
running is really amazing because there are the likes of
us new bees edit and plodding along and wondering why
everybody's walking up the hill? We're going for a run,
aren't we? You know it's no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I always walked, you always ran. You're always like, no, no,
you've got to run. No, you don't.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, because my psyche was running, running, running, and that's
not how trail running works. And then of course you've
got the young guns just flying past you, and she's
just like, how do you even do that? Look, we
were hooked, won't we absolutely? And we found lots of
different ways of doing it. We fast pack great walks now,
which is when you sort of walk run one of
(03:39):
the great walks and do them in a couple of
days and things like that.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
What do you love about it?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I think it's the company first and foremost the nature.
It's getting back to those things that I did do
when I was a kid. You know, when you're a child,
you went for a bushwalk with your parents, you you know,
they go at the walk behind talking with their mates
and we would just tear through the bush and having
a ball, playing games, all sorts of things. It kind
(04:05):
of I think that's what it brings back for me.
And it's quick because I'm really impatient.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
It's kind of quick. I mean, we've got to make
it really clear here. We're not amazing athletes. Please don't
knock up any of our times because we undertake all
this in a bid for a good time. Lots of laughs, Gosh,
we laugh. We do like the core medals and maybe
a personal best. But these adventures can be really fulfilling
in lots of ways, can't they.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, and I'm you know, I'm all for a tramp
as well. I think that there's lots of fun. But
I'm not a gear person. The thing I loved, always
loved about running was it. All it took was a
pair of shoes. And okay, so now I might throw
five kilograms on a backpack.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
We like the gear, it's just different. It's just not
lots of gear. No, I like really cool, light, effective gear. Yeah,
I don't like buying it, but I like it.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
No, I don't. But the other the thing is, and
we've talked a lot this season about all the different
things that we know are good for us, and everybody
keeps on telling us. Time and nature, right, connection with
a friend, early morning light, if you get out there
on the trail first thing in the morning. You know,
you start to see regulars, you get your morning light,
(05:18):
you get your nature. You're ticking off three your health
goals before you've even sort of started the day. So
we want to share the joy today of getting out
into the bush with you and convince you to take
on a new challenge. But we know it can be
difficult getting motivated to take on a new physical challenge
heading into middle age, as our bodies are changing, are
we still up for it? We've certainly noticed some changes
over the years, just a few.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So we have got the perfect guest today. Kathy Duffy
is an extraordinary trail runner. She runs marathons, ultra marathons
and milers and yes, that is one hundred miles. She's
now coaching with the team that she ran for mile
twenty seven. She's got a Bachelor of Human Movement Science
as well as other qualifications in this area, and it's
particularly interested in making sure that women feel safe and
comfortable when it comes to running, not only that they
(05:59):
achieve their goal, but to train with consideration of hormonal
impacts during various stages of our lives. So we are
humbled to be joined by Kathy Duffy.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Welcome, thank you, thank you very much for having me.
I'm very excited to be here and get this party started.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
We are very excited to have you with us as well. Gosh,
you've done some extraordinary races. What would be the toughest
that you've done?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Without a doubt, I would have to say the toughest
has been the one hundred mile races that I've done,
And I probably don't need to explain that to the
audience because one hundred miles is a very long way.
The longest I've done is forty nine hours over one
hundred and eighty one kilometers, and that experience is transformative,
(06:44):
to say the least. It's an exceptional experience, and I
guess it's what draws me back. It's a very unique
position to be in, and you learn a lot about
yourself and you take what you learn in an ultra
out into your life and it's something that I hold
very very dear.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So is that why you do it? Why do you
do it?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
That's a great question, because you're like, that sounds crazy,
So why would you do it? For me? It's probably
more about an evolution. I was very fortunate to find
a sport, and for me it was trial running, which
I absolutely love and it brings me a very high
level of peace that I think you need in our
life and we need in our lives as busy women.
(07:27):
And the evolution of the sport meant that I was
running longer and longer and longer, and it took me
quite a while to even consider doing that one hundred
mile distance. But when I committed to that one hundred
mile distance and then experienced it, it just provides a
moment in time that's so precious, Like life's very busy,
(07:49):
and when you start to push your boundaries, regardless, everyone's
boundaries are different, but for me, it was that one
hundred mile difference. And when you push your boundaries, the
busyness of life fades around and you're only focusing of
that one moment in time. And the further you push
into that and exhaust yourself, you get to this really
(08:11):
interesting space of emotional vulnerability that opens up your heart
in ways that I hadn't experienced before. And I'm not
sure if this makes sense. If you've done the longer distance,
it may may not resonate with you, but it's an
intense experience and you'll often see it the end of
you know, a race finish line. There's a lot of
emotion and it's just the culmination of the build up
(08:33):
of the journey and this eruption of the emotions that
you feel. And I think that's why I do it.
It just is amazing. As I said, that eruption of
emotion and what you gain from that experience, it just
spills out into the rest of your life. And I
want other people to feel that, like it's quite the
journey and the race is the icing on the cake.
(08:54):
But it's that buzz that I love. I love the
journey and I love the icing on the cake moment.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
When we were doing our first trail marathon was the
Tara where a trail marathon, and the last fifteen k's
I wasn't hugely prepared, probably when it comes to nutrition
and hydration, and we'll talk about this a little later.
And I about three four k's before the end, I
was standing on the side of the trail literally hugging
a tree, telling Louise that I was going to die.
I was having a heart attack and I couldn't finish,
and I was so hot. Can you remember this, and
(09:22):
you stood there very patiently on the trail because it
was another hill ahead of us, and we were just
likeing to come on next, you know, And I really
in that moment didn't think I could do it, And
obviously I was going to do it. I knew somehow
deep down I was going to do it. And we
did finish. And I know exactly what you mean that
finish line, that just knowing that you can hit a moment,
you can sort of get to that hurdle and overcome.
(09:45):
It is interesting how that then in your life you go,
this isn't so hard, this isn't so tough. I can
keep moving forward. Yes I can keep going.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I feel like you could. Yes, you feel like you
can do anything after that. And I love your story
about one needs that nice calm friend, don't they that
can help talk you through and get you through. But
to me, I see these events as problem solving your
way to the end, like something will happen. And for
you in that Tarawera, you were pushing your boundaries and
you hit the wall and you were faced with the
(10:17):
decision and you needed to problem solve your way to
the end and you did it. And that is just
the most amazing thing that you can do. That reassurance,
that confidence, that fight, that spirit in you, Like, that's
a special gift.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I think. The only other time I would say that
I've actually felt that is actually childis it's that kind
of you've got to get to the end, you've got
to push through, you've got to stay calm, and you
do go kind of inside yourself quite quite a lot.
And I don't think it.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Matters whether it's forty two, one hundred or ten case,
to be honest with you, like at the moment where
you know, we're going up every Saturday morning and doing
a tin k and it's mostly walking for various reasons.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
But you know, it's not that it's not that we
have to dig too deep for that one, but it's
the sense of achievement of having gotten up early on
a sad day, gone and done it. Hit this quite.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Nasty hell that's on the way yep, and yeah's seen
some regular folks and just know that everybody out there
is doing it for the same reason.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
For that peace of mind.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, you can't underestimate the achievement in that and the
impact that has in your life, Like because it is
a choice and we are busy, and it's sometimes difficult
or it can be very challenging to carve out that
space for yourself and your own well being. We all know.
I've I've been through it. You go through different seasons
of your life, and I've got two children that they're
(11:43):
grown now, but it was definitely times where it's hard
to carve out that space. But I think we deserve it, jeez,
we deserve that. And I think that if you can
carve that out and you can pop your shoes on
and you can spend time in nature, whether it's walking, running, crawling,
I don't care. If you get out there and do
that for yourself, that's a win.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
In my books, really keen to talk about how people
can start trail running. It's become hugely popular. Actually, just
in the introduction, we're talking about that first trail run
we did where we came pretty much last, and then
as we got more experience KFE, we look we'd kind
of go, oh, we're kind of in the middle of
the pack, or oh, we're kind of narrow the pack
(12:22):
and our age group we got really excited. But it's
actually dawned on me now, Lou that it was just
getting more and more popular, and there are lots more
people doing it. I don't think actually people necessarily getting better.
It's just we were used to it and slightly fitted
the new people started. Well, I'm going to give us
more credit than that. I think we were getting technically
better because it is it is a little bit more
technical than going for a run on the pavement, right,
(12:44):
so you do have to start scanning and working out
where you're going to walk and where you're going to
run and all that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Look, it is so if we're talking about somebody who's
keen to get into trial running, and we're targeting I
guess the conversation at beginners. Look the similarities with running
around your streets. You have to know where you're going
and you have to keep safe, right, So that's the
same for when you head on the trail. But there
is another component that you need to consider because trail
(13:15):
offers I guess, some unique challenges. The environment can be
very different, the weather can change, so there are some
safety considerations that you need to take on board. I'm
a big advocate for being very aware of where you're
going to run, and you can go on the internet
on national parks, there's all trails apps, there's council sort
of sites. I use Strava. I don't know if either
(13:37):
of you Strava, but for those out there listening who
don't know what that is, look, I do pay for
a subscription and I'm not affiliated with them anyway. But
you can go and see on there and you can
see exactly where people run and the darker the blue line,
the more people have run that, so you know that's
a commonly run trail. So things like that can help
you kind of work out where to run. And you
(13:58):
need to understand, I guess, the risks in your environment.
So for me, I live in Australia, so there's things
like snakes and you know that I need to consider.
Weather's another thing you need to think about. The weather
can be much more dynamic out on the trails. In
one moment, you might be down in a valley. The
next moment you might be up on a ridge line,
and especially over in New Zealand, the weather can change
(14:21):
very quickly depending on where you were. So I don't
want to overwhelm anyone. I think it's a good idea
for people to know that you just start small, you
start with what you're comfortable with and just be reassured
that you will grow with what you need on the
trail as your training evolves. So my training when I
started was just little outbacks on fire trails, and then
(14:44):
I gradually got more and more adventurous, and then I
met some people who I could then run with them,
and then I started to learn about what gear I
needed to take. So it's something that's really quite exciting
to learn about. And you don't need to start big
and look at the end. I don't most certainly don't
want people overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And if you have done a little bit of road running, Kathy,
and you think to yourself, oh yeah, I can, I
can run five k, don't presume that you know five
or ten k and the bush is same as five
or ten k. Like, don't get despondent because they're not
the same, are they.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That is a very important point there was So my story.
It's really interesting in that back on Yuesday in twenty twelve,
I went for a run just to set the year
in a good sort of, you know frame, and in
that run this thought comes to my head, where this
year I'm going to run a marathon twenty thirteen, I'm
(15:39):
going to run six foot track. Twenty fourteen, I'm going
to run Ultratrau Australia or one hundred. So I don't
know why I thought that. I didn't know how I
was going to get from A to B at all,
I didn't know anybody who'd done that, but I kind
of locked in that plan. So I did my road run,
so I was a road runner, and then all of
a sudden, I thought, Okay, now I've got to do
(16:00):
this trail of it this six foot track, which is
forty five kilometers through about two thousand meters of climbing.
So I went to my local trail. It's about four
and a half kilometers. There wasn't much climbing, but it
was very technical. And after that I went back to
my husband and I'm like, I don't know how I'm
going to do this. I can't even hold six minute pace.
(16:20):
I just had no idea about the differences between that
there are two different sports, so you do need to
take that into consideration. But as I said, if you
start small, you will start to learn how you move
and flow over the trails, and you'll start to learn
that hiking's okay and you're going to use different speeds.
(16:41):
It's just like one big fartlek session, right like speed play.
And then you'll start to learn that, oh, okay, this
is technical track with a lot of climbing. So I've
done ten kilometers on the road in about an hour.
I've done ten kilometers in the bush that's taken me
six hours. So those are the kind of things that
as you learn and grow. Was a trial run, you'll
start to understand that they're two very different sports.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, that's what took me by surprise. Francisca was more
prepared than I was. So we did that first half
in the trail and I went, what is everybody? Why
is everybody stopping and hiking up this hell? And I
was determined to run past them and didn't. The second hell,
I was like, oh, I get it.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
You can't do that. The hells are going to keep coming. Yeah,
we hadn't anticipated that. Trail running sounded lovely. We were
going to run through these beautiful valleys and gentle trails,
and then every event we did, we're like, oh my god,
there's so many hills, and then it occurred to us
that's the sport.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, but that's really important for people to understand. I
was very fortunate in just before I did my first
kind of trial race, I met a lady Natalie, who's
now a very close friend, and she'd done everything that
I ever wanted, and she took me under her wing
and she taught me everything. And I'm so blessed that
she entered my life because my learning curve was so
(18:00):
much faster and steeper. And that's why I really want
to help women in this space on their journeys, because
you know, just a bit of a helping hand goes
a long way. But I remember going on one of
those early runs with her, and the interesting thing was
we came to it. I won't even call it a
hill or a mountain, It was a bit of an
incline and she started walking and I was like oh.
(18:23):
And I remember saying, oh, so would you do this
in a race? And she's like yeah, And I'm like, ah,
So I had this permission, in this freedom to start
to understand that that's what tr running is about. It's
getting from a to B in the most efficient way
you can. And whether that is running or hiking, it
(18:45):
doesn't matter. Even the elites hike, even the elites hike,
so if they hike, we need to include that as
part of our training as well. Right, it's important.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah, the power walking up hells when I did a
lot of training, if I had didn't, you know, to
power walk up hills, there'd be times where you'd be
jogging beside.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I know, I was just thinking about that. There's a
times that i' I'm going to jog this and Franships
is just walking beside me quite furiously.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, Hey, Katy, if you if you are doing a
little bit of running or you have hit it out
and you've gone it to you, I'm quite enjoying a
five or a ten k, and I'm really loving this
time in the bush. If someone then goes, Okay, I
want to step it up and I want to do
an event, and I want to try and get to
a half marathon or a marathon, where do you start
in your thinking?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Well, firstly, excellent because you've got to be surrounded by
like minded people. And the trial community is amazing. And
some of my really good friends I've met through doing
events and I now run with and we support each other.
So I think it's really exciting. That's that's a way
to start developing your support networks and your resources, and
if you're in a lula, you can ring up you know,
(19:50):
Luise or Francesca and hey let's go for a run.
But yeah, to answer your question, I think it's good
to pick an event that speaks to you. You because
you want long distance running and running can be hard,
so you want to pick something that energizes you, that
gives you a bit of a lift. When I chose
my first one hundred mile race, everyone was saying wow,
(20:12):
like that's ridiculous to choose that. Forear first one hundred
mile race. It was through the Victorian Alps in Australia,
and it was more of an adventure course than a
running course. It was crazy hard, over ten thousand meters
of climbing. Damn it just it's something spoke to me.
So I think you need to pick something that lights
that little fire inside of you. I think is very
(20:35):
important because you're going to dedicate time towards this event.
But the good thing about picking an event is it
provides a sort of direction for your training, right, So
you want to obviously learn as much about that event
as you can. You want to know how far it is,
what kind of terrain that you're going to be running on.
Is it a fire trailer, is a technical single track?
(20:58):
Do you want to learn as much about the as
you can? You want to learn how much vert or
climbing or descending there is, what weather you will experience,
and all that information is what's going to guide your
training now. So you're not just training to just get
fit and be able to run and tick that box
I've done my three or four one hour runs in
(21:18):
the week. It starts providing direction for your training. So
an example is I know Kepler Over in New Zealand
is about sixty kilometers and two thousand or just over
two thousand meters of climbing, but I know most of
that climbing is in that first third of the race,
and then you've got this really runnable two thirds at
the end. So when you start evolving your long run,
(21:40):
you'll start to think, Okay, I need my body to
cope with the climbing, but I need to be able
to run because it's a running race, right. So your
long run one weekend might start to work towards more
climbing and descending. Then the next week you might want
it to be more runnable and you might be alternating those.
So see what I mean. The difference is it an
event starts to provide direction for your training, and then
(22:05):
the event is the icing on the cake, which I
alluded to before. The training is the fun part, you know,
you sort of get to tick all these boxes, you
get to feel a sense of achievement and strength, and
the race is sort of the icing on the cake,
just as the reward for all your hard work. So
I'm excited if anybody is sitting here and they're starting
to think maybe I should do an event.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean, we've been doing this and off for thirteen
years and you've just actually the opening's just dropped about
how to train. We did the Keepler as a fast pack.
It wasn't the event, but we did it over two
days instead of the three or four days it might
normally take. But we had to because of the weather.
We had to be flexible, and we had to change
the direction. So we didn't have that climb at the start.
(22:46):
We had that as a descent, but we did have
a nasty switchback on the way up, and I hadn't
trained for that, to be.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Honest with you. Kathy Louise some times, benest Luise sometimes
imagines things are going to be different than they are,
even when I tell her they're going to be the
way they are. We did talk about the incline there.
We did we did actually do some work.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I oh, no, totally. We did the cameras a billion times.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
We did.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
We actually did a lot of work for that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I just wasn't counting on that.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, no, it's and actually that's something we should bring up.
If you want to be a trail runner. It's not
just about the running. The strength work is really important,
isn't it. Kathy.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Look, definitely, strength is a big part of it. But
there's no doubt that if you want to be able
to run long distances, you need to be able to
run right. You need to get that level of volume.
But you also need to provide your body with a
strong foundation now and I think that's important through all
stages of your life. But it's equally so much more
(23:56):
important the older you get. I have to be honest,
I didn't do any strength work for a long period
of time. I had ten beautiful, eleven beautiful injury free
years in all my running, and I was running about
five times a week and it was great, and I've
done so much, and then I reached that point in
(24:18):
my life, which I guess you know what I'm alluding to,
where the hormones start to shift and there's different stresses
on your body, and I started to get my first
few niggles and then injuries. So that then led me
to learn about, well, what's now happening with my body,
what's changing, what do I need to know, what do
I need to do differently? And I think one of
(24:39):
you mentioned before about having flexibility with your training, So
that's when I've included strength work, and I think it's
very important. There's different ways to do that. Find a
way that speaks with you. But for me, it's going
into the gym and starting to lift a little bit
heavier as well. For me, I'm separating out the two things.
(25:00):
The strength work is a strong foundation, but I'm doing
that for the benefit to my bones and muscles and
they're not specifically kind of runner type actions. So that's
the difference for me. It's like there's a different focal
point for the types of things I'm doing in the gym.
(25:20):
But yes, strength is very important in terms of I
guess your longevity in the sport and because you know,
our body makes us do what we need to do
and we need to kind of look after and make
it as strong as possible.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
You're listening to the little things. And our guest today
is Ultra marathon runner and coach Kathy Duffy talking about
the joys of trail running. We'll be back after the break, Kathy.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Before the break, you were just saying about strength, and
I had an injury at achilles niggle and I went
to this particular physio and all over the reception area
is great kind of posters and things about being strong
for what you want to do and being strong as
(26:16):
you age. And the first thing the physia said to me,
which was mortifying, was this injury has occurred because you're
not strong enough to be doing what you're doing. You're
trying to ask your body to do something it's not
strong enough to be doing. And since then it still
took me another couple of years because that's just me.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
But now I love my strength training and I notice
I haven't had a niggle out of that ankle. It
was so painful for so long and just doing the
correct you know, building up the muscles around it to
support it. I suddenly realized the connectivity from my feet
to the top of my head.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
You know what I mean. It's crazy. How can I
get to fifty three and only just realize how my
body works.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Well, I think you're not alone, Luise at all. I
think that it's very common, and that is similar to
my experience. You know, nothing and then sort of hamstring
and then torn planet of fashion and then an ankle injury.
So it was all of a sudden. It's interesting you
kind of live in this body for so many decades
and all of a sudden, your body it just seems
like different. And when you're speaking about those posters, I
(27:22):
think in the last few years, I've developed this motto
where its function over face value. I pride how my
body functions much higher than how it's actually looking, if
that makes sense. So that's that's what I continually tell myself,
is how do I want to function when I'm eighty,
(27:44):
you know? And if I can't do some of those
things now, I need to really address those things. And
from a running perspective, running is very repetitive, especially when
we're doing road running, because most of us will do
most of our training on roads or local sort of
ovals and things like that with just a small portion
on the trails. But it's a repetitive sport that does
(28:04):
put stress on our body, so we need to strengthen
it so we can function as well as we can
as we age. It's a longevity issue as well.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Let's talk a little bit about keeping keeping active as
we age and sort of hit that perimenopause and menopause stage.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And I loved.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
It before we started this podcast, you called it the
glory years with a smile on your face, which actually
I like, I thought that was very positive approach towards it,
even if it didn't mean it, you know, even if
there was a little bit of psychasm in there. I'm
not sure you've kind of mentioned how we can be
more prone to injury, but there's a lot of things
(28:43):
that can kind of that the female middle age athlete
might come across. I mean, it can. Does it become
harder to maintain and build and look after our muscles
for example?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Short answer is yes. So the longer answer is there
are a lot of things that are happening in our
body behind the scenes as we age. And I know
that you've both done some really great podcasts on menopause.
You've had the Queen doctor Stacy Simson as well, and
she's amazing, And I do encourage people to go back
(29:18):
and listen to those because there's a lot of extremely
valuable information in those. But first of all, I want
women to know, regardless of the fact that they're aging,
is they can absolutely still do anything. Aging doesn't preclude
you from doing amazing things. I'm training a woman in
her sixties at the moment with her ultimate goal of
(29:38):
doing one hundred mile race. I know I've got two
other friends athletes who are doing their tenth UTA one hundred.
They're in their later fifties and they're going for a PB.
So think about that. So they started in their forties,
they're in their later fifties, and they're training to go
for a PB. So anything's possible.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
This heart press the hope for us, and I.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Most certainly haven't changed my goals as such. My goal
is to be the best I can be. Now that
may look a little bit different as I age, but
that's still my goal to optimize and maximize my potential.
But there are some things, yes, we need to consider,
and you mentioned muscles, so and I don't want to
(30:24):
go into a big education around menopause because you have
already dressed this in the past. But the just people
need to understand the impact of sort of fluctuating and
then withdrawing hormones is significant, and people need to know
that it's a head to toe condition and it's not
just about impacts your reproduction and hot flushes. It's a
(30:47):
head to toe condition. So the really good examples you've
mentioned muscles and bones. They're very dynamic tissue. They build up,
they break down, they build up, they break down. As
we're in this kind of transition around menopause, these things
break down more than they build up. And we don't
have estrogen to help build our bones and keep our
(31:10):
muscles as strong and powerful as they can be. So
we need to train a little bit differently. And doctor
Simms is great sheeese, As I said, I think you
had a training and menopause thing, but you need to
think you need that external stressor plus your protein dosing
to now do the best that you can for your muscles.
(31:31):
And we've already spoken about strength. So you might be
going into the gym to lift heavy, you might be
doing hit training, pliometric training. It might be if you're
able to add that to your training schedule, that's great.
If you're time poor and you can't add it, it
might be appropriate not to do that fifth run, to
swap it out for one of those strength sessions, because
(31:52):
you need this external stress. You need a different type
of input for the same level of output that you
had before. So things like that are really important. And
that's what caught me heading into peri menopause is I
didn't now have this different stressor to maximize my muscles,
(32:13):
and then I started to get some of these niggles
and then injuries, and hence it led me down the
path of kind of going to the gym and doing
some different type of training. And that's a big one.
And as I said, it's important in all seasons of
your life, but it's particularly important at this stage of
your life.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I absolutely loved that a whole what you've just said,
And if you need to rewind and listen to that again,
you've just really hit the nail on the head for
just sort of encapsulating exactly what happens. It's harder for
that the muscles to puleting faster, it's harder to build
it up, and I've got a personal bug beer at
(32:52):
the moment on social media about women sort of heading
back at with a bit of a whiplash moment of
I don't want to eat my protein, I don't want
to have all scottagecheet that, don't want to go to
the gym, I don't want to blah blah blah, do
what you like. But this is happening to your body regardless.
And if you want to go and do something and
enjoy it and not be injured, you know, no, there's
(33:14):
just not anough. There's no one there to pick you
up except for yourself at the end of the day.
So yeah, I really enjoyed that. Thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's interesting because the body starts to change a little bit.
I'm having to deal with I've had a knee problem
which has led to a lack of consistency and exercise,
which has led to a little bit of excess weight
around my tummy, Cathy, And it's really interesting how it
audious builds and then it suddenly makes it harder to
move and more difficult to move. So I'm reversing that.
(33:45):
I'm starting with getting rid of the gart and like
I'm coming back to being able to be. But you know,
you can hit another wall, a slightly different wall than
what being on the trail of just having that motivation
and feeling that you can kind of get up and
do it as well when you hit those middle age years.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah, there is a lot coming at us, isn't there.
Like the person that we knew for so many decades
is now like a bit different. It's like we're having
to kind of relearn ourselves. And as I mentioned, menopause
is a head to toe condition and as impacts to
our brain, which can infect like our motivation, we could
(34:25):
have new onset of depression, anxiety, and things like that.
The way our metabolic, so the way we use glucose
and things can change which can lead to that weight
changes and that sort of weight around your belly. There's
all these things going on. And I was having a
recent conversation with a friend who's a sports dietitian, Sylvia Feffer,
(34:50):
and she said something to me that just went in
my brain, And I'm going to tell you what she
told me. She said, you need to disentangle performance goals
from body image. Now, when I say that disentangle performance goals,
from body image. What do you both think?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I don't know. I sorry, say it one more time.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Disengage, So disentangle performance goals from body image. So whilst
you're thinking, I can let you know what how that
resonated with me. So if I disentangle, if I separate out,
So you're talking about my body looks a little bit different,
and it will over your lifetime when you go through puberty,
if you have children, your body will look different. And
(35:38):
this stage in your life is no different. And especially
let's add on aging as well as the impacts of hormones. Right,
So I'm looking in the mirror and I'm like, oh,
I'm carrying a little bit more around my belly. So
body image and how I perceive that. If I just
pop that to the side and I look at one
of my performance goals. So my performance goals at the
moment are there's a race I'm targeting. So I need
to train sensibly, need to have good recovery, I need
(36:02):
to have quality nutrition, I need to do my strength,
I need to get sort of sleep in I can
if I'm doing all the things to maximize my performance.
The irony of all of that is your body will
end up the best that it can be. So focusing
on your performance goals and doing everything you need to
(36:24):
in that space and the right things for your body
optimizes I guess the physicality of your body, which then
flows onto the mental side as well. And I think
that the issue when women start focusing on is this
belly weight or I don't like it? Aside from looking
at the performance goals, is what do women typically do
(36:49):
when they're concerned about their body image and want to
lose weight.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
We stop eating as much and we stop giving our
bodies the right nutrition.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yeah, you calorie restrict you might get obsessive about exercise,
and those two things will actually exacerbate the impacts of menopause.
So for me, that disentanglement of the two, and it
ties into my function over face value is what what
do you want to achieve for yourself right now? Where
(37:20):
do you want to be? What's important to you? And
my body will be what my body will be. And
I am so I'm so proud of what my body
allows me to do. And yes, I'm a fifty two
year old woman who's you know, got decades and decades
worth of societal pressures on me to look a certain way,
(37:42):
and I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm constantly reminding
myself that it's okay where I'm at because I'm doing,
as a fifty two year old, far more than what
some twenty year olds you can do, and I'm proud
of that.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
It's really, it's really, it's a great way to put it,
because I didn't really become terribly consumed about my weight
until it became a health issue and it stopped me
doing what I wanted to do. So in a way,
that's the same thing. It's kind of like, oh, actually,
so what is it you want to do? Okay, get
on with doing what you need to do, and the
other that side of it will come, you know. So
it wasn't so much that I was conscious of how
(38:16):
I looked. It was more that it was it was
having health implications and stopping me doing what I wanted
to do. Yes, so it's yeah, so oh coursh isn't
that interesting?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Hey?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Look, Kathy, really quickly, as we're getting older, should we
be doing more rolling and stretching in our agemes and
things like that? Does that make a difference?
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Well? Interesting? Look, I have to admit I'm probably the
worst at that, and a lot of ultratrail runners aren't
the best at rolling and stretching. And I think the
science probably is a little bit not too powerful in
terms of pointing towards the benefits of rolling and things
(38:57):
like that. But I think when I think sorry, I
think when I think of stretching, it comes back to
that functional side of things, and as I age, it's
it's important that I can move freely, and I need
to be able to move freely over the trails. So
there are some functional movements, and I know in our
(39:20):
sort of with our coaching, there's some sort of functional
strength type movements that can be concluded in your program.
There's another app leos moves that I signed up for recently,
which is these really functional, but they're stretching with strengthening
because I watch strength through that range of motion as
opposed to me just sitting there and just bending forward
(39:40):
and stretching out my hand strings. So I'm kind of
more looking for functional strength over the range of motion,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, the sterets are good. Yeah, we had a fabulous
session with her and the Built to Move They've got
some amazing stuff and the for functionality opening the hips. Yes,
kind of thing that can reject.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Yeah, there's a lot out there.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah, Hey, what about risk days.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I think rest days are very important, and I think
it's a real important part of understanding your body and
what you need. And I also think it's an important
part of your training regime because it allows for all
the adaptions from all your training to kind of take hold,
(40:32):
rather than you constantly putting these stresses on your body,
because training is another stressor. And I sort of shifted
some of my training along the way, and I started
training in the afternoon because I was opting for the
sleep because as we know, during kind of perimenopause, sleeping
can be a challenge. So sleep became more important. And
(40:52):
then I shifted when I trained. At the moment, I've
as I mentioned before, five days a week running, I'm
actually doing for it at the moment, but too are
on trail. Too are on the road, so that and
the trail ones are slightly longer, so I'm getting the
same volume, but I'm getting an extra day of recovery.
So recovery is very important for all athletes, especially athletes
(41:16):
as they age, and I think people need to give
themselves permission and understand that it is a very important
part of your training, and sometimes it's a better decision
to take a rest to day than to soldier on
if you're so fatigued and your body is aching, just
to tick that.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Box beautifully explained Kathy.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
It's just been wonderful to have you on the podcast.
I'm totally motivated. It's almost like we're starting again. Luise,
you kind of you've motivated us again. And what you
have achieved and I'm sure will continue to achieve, it's
just extraordinary. It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Look, I love this space and I really appreciate the
opportunity to have the discussion. I think it's really important
for women to know that you can do that. It's
very possible. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. Start small,
find your tribe. We can have more conversations and let's
just you know, build up the women in this sport
that we love so much.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, I really do think midlife. Maybe it's like me
and playing golf. I don't know, but I do think
midlife is a really great opportunity to start the stuff. Really,
we were forty when we started.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Oh me too, I was. I was forty. I did well.
I did that road marathon the year that I turned forty,
and so yes, in my forties and fifties, i've been
doing ultra trails. No, it's possible.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
That's great, Thank you so much. I love Kathy, so
do I.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
She's so amazing. But I did think to myself, we
both started trail running at the same time, Louise, Okay,
not you and I, but you and I and we
al said to.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Have alway done one hundred mile. Yet it could still happen.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
It could still happen if I can get my right
nef I could just get my right knee sort of.
Who knows, but I feel really positive about that now,
me too about It's like set of goal.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Just go for it.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Think about it too long, it's just do it.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
I have to make a phone call when I leave
here because I think I just said to you last
week that I've been working out quite a lot. I'm
seeing little changes, and I keep and my son is
my coach, because he's a strength and conditioning coach, and
I have been saying to him, can't you see a difference,
can't you see look at this muscle, look at it.
And he's constantly going, I don't care about what your
(43:43):
body looks, like I care about what your body can do.
And I was like, yeah, and everybody, you know, everybody
wants some credit for and he's not going to give
me it. And he's dead right, because I should be
disentangling my body from my performance. So yeah, I'm making
that phone call when I leave today.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
He'll be thrilled to get that. Yeah, his mother telling
him that he was right after all this time. I
loved Kathy's message that anybody can step outside the door
and start something new, regardless of our age and stage.
Might be a few more things to have in the
back of your mind and to think about if you're
heading into middle age. But it's absolutely doable. And women
are so good at endurance, especially when they.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Get oh yeah we are. That's a really good point.
And I think too, you know, like I said on
the intro, like we just keep being told nature, light movement,
and you know, if it doesn't matter, if it's not
for you, that there are parks close by you can do.
You know, you can walk in just perhaps don't do
your normal walk around one tree. He'll maybe just go
straight up the hill, try something different.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Find it convinced A like minded friend to join you,
because company always makes it so much better and you
can kind of support and motivate each other as you
go along, but also to have I'm god, if we laughed,
we have laughed, we cried and wet our pants, and
the wh we have, the places and the and the
places we have seen and done and been and everything
that's been amazing. And thank you so much for joining
(45:05):
us on our New Zealand Herald podcast series, Litle Things.
We hope you share this podcast with the women in
your life so we all feel motivated to start anything
new that we want to achieve at any agent stage exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
You can follow this podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and for more on this and other topics,
head to mzed herold dot co dot MZ.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
We'll catch you next time on the Little Things
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