Changing the Culture: Mental Health in the Workplace

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sat B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
This is the Nutters Club, thanks to New Zealand on
air on News Talks.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Being good evening and welcome to the Nutters Club, the
show that talks about your mental health every Sunday night

(00:44):
and Monday morning and try to see if we can't
help you.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Out along the way. My name's Amish Williams. And a
very good evening to you wherever you might be listening
around the country, around the world. Very very special, good
evening to all of the fine people that I've spent
the last week with.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
I was.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
I was on a training course down in Queenstown of
all places. Although you know Queenstown is beautiful and amazing.
The training course was sort of inside all week, so
I had a nice view out the window. But that
was about it. But I mean I had people from Wellington,
from Toldonger, from Arrowtown. I suppose it's kind of just
quite local. Obviously Auckland. There was a few of us

(01:29):
from Auckland down there. But man, really great group of
people from all corners of New Zealand. Yeah, quite a
few from Toddronger, Gisbane. Yeah, there was a lady there
from Gussie and just absolutely fantastic, a whole heap from
christ Church. And you know what when you get together
with different people from all around the country and you're
all sitting there together and you're just kind of like

(01:50):
trading ideas and viewpoints, and I just kind of realized, Man,
what an awesome country. I was just like all these
people they've got doing such wildly different things and they're
all so passionate about it. So, you know, on the play,
I mean, these people were incredible. What on earth I
was doing there, I'm not sure. I think there was
a few people who perhaps wondered why I was there,

(02:11):
but either way, it was very enjoyable and a big
hello to all those people there, especially Table four. I
was with Table four all week. Anyway. If you're wondering
why I'm a bit croaky, it's probably because I've spent
all week just yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you think I'm
yeck in a heap on this thing. I'll tell you what.
The last week I've been going So I'm not diseased
or anything. You're not going to catch anything listening to

(02:32):
me down the radio tonight. So that's the good news.
But the man who has to be most worried about
being in the proximity, well, he's my psychotherapist. He's your psychotherapist.
He's Kryl McDonald, Kyle Good evening CUREA. Look, I wanted
to talk to you about something because I've been away
for a few weeks too. Yeah, so thank you very
much to making yourself for keeping everything going. It's nice

(02:55):
to be back though, welcome back, Thank you, thank you.
You know, he's one of the funny things, like the
last three weeks I've been doing, having a little bit
of holiday and running around the place and you know,
doing this course for the last week, and a lot
of people, you know, ask me about the show because
they say, what do you do? And I mean, as
far as everyone else listening to this is concerned, probably

(03:17):
not much outside of doing the show fair estimation. But
one of the things as I was talking to them
about was why the show is on when it's on
and we know that Sunday night and Monday morning it
was a really hard time for people.

Speaker 5 (03:31):
Yeah, Sunday scaries, and there's.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
A whole bunch of reasons around why that might be
but one of the reasons is we know is around
work stresses. And so that's the fact that you know,
tomorrow the vast majority of us have to go to work.

Speaker 5 (03:48):
The old alarm goes off at six, five, seven, whatever,
and get up, off you go again another week.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
And I thought, you know, it's interesting as to the
construct of you know, work and employment, because you know,
we end up spending a lot of time with people
that we don't want to people that our family unless
were on holiday, well exactly. And you don't get to
really choose, you know, when it come to an employment place.
It's not like you go it's not like dating. You

(04:16):
don't kind of figure out if you like someone or not,
and then you do. You know, you put in your
CV and you're going for the interview, and you meet
the manager and he seems very nice. Oh Kyle, lovely
meet you. It comes in, why do you think you'd
be good here? And then you go in and all
of a sudden, you're just working alongside all these people
and different personalities. Sometimes, let's be honest, you might not

(04:36):
like all of them, might be quite hard, might be
ones that are a bit tricky, and all of these
different things and the demands of work and the ups
and downs, and sometimes things have not of our making
at all, but they can contribute to being really, really stressful,
and then in and of itself, can impact our mental health.

(04:57):
And then you get a couple of days reprieve Friday, Saturday,
and then Sunday, and then it comes to Sunday night
and you've got to go back because hey else to
pay jobs to do. And sometimes you know, you'll see
if you look commitment to the place, you know you
don't want to let people down.

Speaker 5 (05:12):
I get it, And there's additional pressure at the moment too.
And I mean I know a few people in this
situation in my world where they've been looking for work
for three, four, five, six months. It's tough out there too.
So you know, even if the job is making you
a bit miserable, you don't have a lot of choice
potentially at the moment.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
And we know that those stresses can really compound on
a Sunday night because you know that tomorrow you've got
to go back, or at least you're expected to. Yeah, So,
cal can you tell me why why is it that
the workplace, you know, our employment, Why is it that
it seems to cause so much stress and impact on

(05:53):
our mental health. I mean, why can't we just sort
of shrug it off and be like, ah, to be
fine and get on with it. A yeah, exactly why
is it that?

Speaker 6 (06:01):
Why?

Speaker 3 (06:01):
What is it about the employment, you know, our employment,
places of employment and that whole experience. Why does that
cause so much harm and strets onto our mental health
at times?

Speaker 5 (06:12):
Well, the main problem is it's full of people. That's
the cynical take, right, But actually that's true. And I think,
you know, we're to start back at the beginning. I mean,
we all have our ways of doing things. Sure, we
all have our you know, our quirks, our eccentricities. Dare
I say, we all have our neuroses and in particular

(06:32):
difficulties and things we might be struggling with, and we
bring all of that to work as well, and then
we have to figure out how to mesh that in
with a whole bunch of people. As you say that
we might consider might be told her our team all
of a sudden, you know, we might have to deal with,
you know, our own issues with authority, if we have
a boss, or what it feels like to be in charge,

(06:53):
if we are the boss and all of those things
you know that come out of our own psychology, and
you know, my way of looking at these things often
when people come and start talking to me, is actually
understanding that a lot of those patterns of behavior, whether
it be how we relate to authority or how we
enact authority, often come from family. You know, the first

(07:14):
place we experience authority and powers in our family. So
you know where our parents' disciplinarians. Were they reasonable, were
they unreasonable? Did we suffer abuse emotional, physical, or otherwise?
Does that make us get actually quite triggered in the
workplace if people aren't particularly pleasant to us, or are
we someone who actually had a pretty good background and
can sort of muck and get on with it and

(07:36):
be a good team player. All of that comes into play.
And as you say, the thing about it, which is
kind of strange when you actually stop and think about it,
is we might get to choose the job, but we
don't get to choose who works alongside us. So we
have to deal with what we've got in front of us.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
I suppose you've just touched on it there too. It's
not just about being an employee. There's a lot of
streets and being an employer, Oh absolutely.

Speaker 5 (08:01):
I mean if you're and even more so if you are,
you know, a small business owner, whether that be a
tradee with if it does an employees, or someone who
runs a medium sized business. You've got people's livelihoods in
your hand, you know, And I think a lot of
people who run businesses and are responsible for people's livelihood
take that responsibility very seriously. It's quite a weight. You know,

(08:22):
it's not just about how do I feed my family,
but how do I ensure all my employees can feed
theirs too.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
I've always had great admiration for employers who do you know,
because you know, if you're actually doing that, and let's
just say you run a small business with you know,
maybe twenty employees, and that's considered small, you know, those
are twenty families, twenty homes, twenty you know, twenty sets
of people who have partners, kids.

Speaker 5 (08:46):
Thirty forty kids that yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
They're all and suddenly, you know, the buck has to
stop somewhere. Yeah, and often it's going to stop with you.

Speaker 5 (08:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
And so you know, when we talk about employees and
being worried about you know, sometimes you know, answer to
the boss tomorrow. Sometimes it's it's pretty lonely and a
lot of pressure being the boss as well.

Speaker 5 (09:04):
Yeah, absolutely, a lot of responsibility and weight. So all
of that can be happening in your head when you're
lying there at midnight on a Sunday night, looking forward
or not to the week.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Well, I mean who looks after the boss? Yeah, sometimes
that old thing they say it's lonely at the top. Absolutely, yeah, no,
it can be. But I also recognize that it can
be really lonely and very isolating if you don't have
work to look forward to tomorrow. And so it's this
whole thing, and so Sunday night seems to be the

(09:36):
crossroads when it comes to how we feel about ourselves
and how we feel about our mental health and response
to employment. So tonight on the show, it's very much
your show, and I'm really looking forward to talking to
you because it's been a few weeks I have missed you.
I hope it's been mutual, but either way, i'd like

(09:57):
your calls, your experiences with how you've managed your stresses,
the pressures, and how it's affected your mental health when
it comes to employment. Now, I really want to hear
the good they're not so good in anything else, because
tonight when we share our stories, it actually helps others.

(10:17):
Even if you're not sure how you feel, it might
be tonight that you're actually sitting there being like Hamish,
You've got no idea what it is that I'm going
through right now? Well, correct, I don't, but I'd like
to understand. So pick up the pine and give us
a call. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Your experiences

(10:38):
with employment and how it affected your mental health. I'm
especially interested to hear about if you've managed to find
something that works for you to manage it. You know,
when you have a really ratty day and not so
good day, perhaps even a not so good week, maybe
even a not so great month, what is it that
you've done to be able to look after yourself, to

(10:59):
be able to keep going forward? And I don't mean
just you know. I mean it could be that you
quit and if you did fair enough, but I want
to hear about that eight hundred eighty ten eighty an
equal measure. If you're struggling with what's going on in
your life in regard to your employment at the moment
and how that's affecting you. You could be the boss,

(11:19):
he could be an employee. Please give us a call.
I eight hundred eighty ten eighty. You've got Kyle. He's
a qualified psychotherapist, he's got a few years under his belt.
He's even written a book. He might be able to
help you out out along. And I'll tell you what
our listeners tonight would love to as well, because that's
something that you guys do ever so well. The Nutters
Club I eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Look forward to

(11:41):
the conversation after the break.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
air on newstalg z'b.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Hey, welcome back to the Nutters Club. My name is
Amish Williams, and here in the Auckland studio with me
tonight psychotherapist Carl McDonald, and we're talking about our experiences
with our employment and how that's affected our mental health,
something we know to be a big topic that weighs
on people's mind on a Sunday night. We welcome your
experiences eight hundred and eighty ten eighty or flicks a

(12:10):
text on nine two nine two. I'll tell you one
of my earlier ones go on that I had coh
it was when I was working down in the Eden.
I was working in a big student bar, late late night,
late night employment. So I think I think the big
nights were Thursday, Friday, Saturday, definitely Friday and Saturday. But

(12:31):
when I came in, I started out at the lowliest
of the low and that was as a glassy.

Speaker 5 (12:37):
I was going cleaning glasses.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
And cleaning glasses, and you gotta go around. You got
to take the dirty glasses off and you put them
into a shopping chopping basket, please took chopping basket, and
then take it out the back, put them through the
washing machine, and you just keep doing that. And I
started about ten thirty at night I think, and go
through to close, so that would be like three in
the morning.

Speaker 5 (12:55):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Once you've done mop up, you know, and everything, maybe
like you know, four four thirty in the morning, you
get out of there. When you're eighteen nineteen. This is fine,
there's absolutely fine. Absolutely, that's not the problem. The problem
is you don't want to be a glassy. Everybody wanted
to get on the bar. Yeah, you wanted to be
working the bar because pop up the pines, pulling the pines,
making the cocktails, you know, doing the shots and all

(13:19):
that sort of stuff, because that when you're eighteen nineteen,
that was really cool. Yeah, you know, and you wanted
to be that guy.

Speaker 5 (13:25):
Cocktail had probably just come out.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
I was a little older than Cocktail, but yeah, I
like where you're going with this point is is that
I continuously got you know, passed over again and again
and again, and other people would come in and it
was never one hundred percent sure why, And I ended
up really making me feel quite down towards the job
because I wanted to do that progression right and it
wasn't happening, and so kept thinking, oh, you know, what's wrong,

(13:51):
you know, like, am I not good enough? Glassy? No,
there wasn't wasn't the case. In fact, you know, they
thought I was really good. Maybe that was part of
the problem, but I was starting to, like, really my
self esteem was starting to get really connected to the job.
And so in the end, though, I left and I said, well,
I'm not going to work here anymore, and I went

(14:11):
and found another job working at another bar, quite much
at a nicer bar, and I didn't have to work
late nights anymore, and it was just fantastic. But that
whole experience, you know, going through the idea that I
wasn't and I did. I felt like I wasn't good
enough to be on the bar, and when I just
sort of realized that ultimately it was just that the

(14:32):
guys who are employing me, they just kind of, you know,
didn't really see that in me, and when other people
came through, they preferred them. So what's going on in
those kind of experiences? Why do we care so much about,
you know, what someone I mean, I didn't really know them,
they didn't really know me. I mean, of course I
wasn't going to get onto the bar. I was just
some kid picking up glasses. But why do we end

(14:53):
up caring so much about what our employees think of us?

Speaker 5 (14:56):
Well, because it is a way of pinning our ego
to something. I mean, I think we all do that,
whether we're eighteen's just starting out or whether we're fifty
and you know, applying for a job that we really
want and we miss out because I think, you know, unfortunately,
in our society often you know, what happens when you
go to a party and someone shakes your hand and says, oh,
nice to meet you. What do you do?

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (15:18):
Right, you know, it's a way of understanding who we
are in the world, and unfortunately for a lot of people,
also what our value is. But you know, when it
comes to a career, we do put a lot of
value on those things. And I think, you know, to
think about the scenario that you're describing. I mean, I
think one of the things that I would have been
encouraging eighteen year old you to do would have been

(15:40):
actually probably just stick your hand up a bit more certively,
and you know, to appropriately and assertively kind of say, hey,
this is what I want to do. How do I
get there? Actually have a conversation with the boss rather
than handing in your notice, and it worked out well
for you in the end. But nonetheless, I think often sometimes,

(16:01):
as you say, employers only know what they know, and
as far as they were concerned, maybe they thought you
were perfectly happy doing what you were doing.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
You bring up a really good point here, right, is
because people don't know what you're thinking. Yeah, so if
you don't actually tell them, how on earth are they
going to even know? Yeah, makes no sense. You're right,
You've got to put your hand up sometimes and.

Speaker 5 (16:21):
Actually, often, you know, good employers will see that as
the right kind of attitude of you know, someone putting
their hand up and saying they want to do something
is exactly the kind of person you want to be employing.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
I've got a text here from Nicki. Nicki just says, Hi,
I had a manager who was a bully. After my
husband was killed in an accident, she told me I
needed to find more energy. After thirty years, my mental
health going downhill. I retired a year early. She didn't
acknowledge my leaving my years of service. It's been hard,

(16:55):
but I'm so glad that I made that decision and
she has thanks for the program, and you welcome, Nicki.

Speaker 7 (17:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
So recognition is an interesting one and right because on
one hand, right you get part. Surely that's recognition enough.
You could hear some people saying why do we need
to have more than just getting a paycheck.

Speaker 5 (17:18):
Well, because our emotional wellbeing matters too, right. So you know,
I'm sorry to hear of the texts experience, and it's
one of those things that I think is really important
to frame up a little bit. So bullying is a
term that gets used a lot in workplaces to describe
emotional distress that we experience as a result of being
at work. It's also true that bullying describes a particular

(17:40):
set of behaviors where someone intentionally sets out to harm
someone or to put them down, or to undermine them,
and that may have been the texts experience. I don't know,
but I think what often is the case too, and
it sounds like this was the case for the text
is actually a lot of times we just have people
who aren't very emotionally literate, people who don't really understand

(18:01):
that actually looking after people's emotional wellbeing is as important,
if not more important, than looking after their physical well being,
and that if people have got stuff going on in
their life, then actually, you know, people are people, and
of course you've if you've had a significant grief or
loss or disruption in your life, it would be normal
to expect that someone may not be as focused on work,

(18:23):
to expect them to be, so it's just to not
really be very human.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
I think I like the take Okay, we've got a
break to take, but we'd love to hear from you, oh,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty or flick us a
text on nine two, nine to two. What have been
some of your experiences in the workplace that have affected
your mental health, could be as an employee, could be
as an employer, but ultimately I'm interested to find about

(18:47):
what are some of the things that you've done to
be able to look after yourself and manage that, because
for Nicky it was to retire a year early, albeit
with some you know, well, I think well justified misgivings
as to sort of you know, being taken for granted,
not feeling valued. But I think the fact that you

(19:07):
can see that that it was that person doing that
rather than it being anything to do with you specifically
as a person, that's a big that's a big step.

Speaker 5 (19:14):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Okay, we'll take more of your calls, more of your
texts after the break. Here tonight on the Nutterers Club.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
This is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand on
air on Newstalk Z'B.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Welcome back to the Nutterers Club. My name is Samush
Williams in the Auckland studio with me tonight' psychotherapist car McDonald,
and we're talking about mental health in the workplace sometimes
trying to navigate some of those challenges that we've got.
Would love your calls. One hundred and eighty ten eighty
or flick us a text on nine two ninety two.
Let's go to the lines, Dean. Good evening to you.

Speaker 7 (19:48):
Ye's good evening. I'm just a sort of unemployment as
I'm not currently employed because I've made to stop for
medical eas and I work for forty years in the
supermarket industry and it's a lovely relaxed life now that
it's all behind me. But when I was working, I
did have a boss. It wasn't so much fulling. He

(20:08):
ruled by intimidation and it was a not a very
pleasant time. But you know, I work through it. But
I'm glad it's all behind me now. But that's the
thing that people need to have to cope with sometimes too.
It's just like stand over technics. But you do experience
that some times. How did it's all bad? But it's
just that's just one Sometimes that's people's style. They try

(20:30):
to put fear into you.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
How did you deal with that, Dane when you were
having you know, that very.

Speaker 7 (20:37):
Daunting and very hard because it's like you were doing
your job to the best of your ability and he
was just waiting for you to make a mistake. And
once you made a mistake. You've just come down and
you're like a ton of bricks. It did affect me
quite badly for a while, but I'm now it's all
behind me now because I'm not working. But it's hard
but some I'm not saying it was all bad. You know,
it's behind me now, but that's just how some managers work.

(20:59):
They'd like to put far into people.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Did you ever talk to anybody else about it?

Speaker 7 (21:05):
I did talk to the hr meho managed to resolve
what sort of it's not nice because it's like you
come to work and you wouldn't You're very uncomfortable feeling
because you just waiting to come to jump down on
top of you. But that's I'm sure I'm a people
experienced that, so that's just I call it intimidation. But

(21:25):
you just have to deal with as you can. It's
actually in this day and age, because of the employment laws,
that would probably be bought more down as workplace harassment.
So they have to be very careful now to treat
the workers like that.

Speaker 5 (21:40):
Yeah they do, but I mean, I think what you're
describing is really important to raise them for what we're
talking about tonight actually doing, because it's.

Speaker 7 (21:47):
Actually I don't know if it currently goes on in
people's workplaces.

Speaker 5 (21:52):
Does yeah, because that intimidation could often be quite subtle too, right,
it can, like you say, there's certainly more protections these days,
but it can be quite subtle then and it can
lead and maybe it's.

Speaker 7 (22:02):
The wrong when to save it. Sometimes that's like a
cultural thing of some cultures. That's how they that's how
they like.

Speaker 5 (22:09):
You know well, and some individuals just have like a
high authority style as well, an approach that which is
you know, they think, as you say, that's perfectly normal.

Speaker 7 (22:19):
Because that's like it was a bullying there was something
a while back, and even New Zealand currently today that
it's not a thing that stop and talked about very often,
but bullying is still quite prevalent in the workplace.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Oh without it.

Speaker 7 (22:32):
I don't like to speak out about it because they
feel it's gonna, you know, if you're gonna, it's going
to come back on them sort of.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
You know, without a doubt. And I think that's one
of the things I wanted to talk about tonight, was about,
you know, different things that you can do, but most
of all, how do you look after yourself when you're
going through that. So Dean, you know, when you had
had a you know, like you'd had a tough week
with this this guy who was behaving this way. Was
there anything specifically that you did for you just to
kind of, you know, be able to.

Speaker 7 (22:59):
Live for yourself and walking and try to keep my
mind clear. But I'm maybe I'm a little bit oversensit,
but I'm looking you know, this is when I was
quite a lot. Yeah, I actually had a stage where
I nearly might sound an overaction, but I nearly broke
down a couple of times.

Speaker 5 (23:16):
I don't think it's an overreaction at all. I think
it's understandable when you feel like that.

Speaker 7 (23:19):
We're not going to aly Hansen it, but it does
actually can actually just couldn't have a very destructive effect
on you. Take away a lot of your confidence there.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, without a doubt. Well then I'm glad now that
I'm not working.

Speaker 7 (23:32):
I mean I worked a fety years and I had
major heart serge. But I'm fine now, keepective. But it's
a great life now because my parents that are earlier
and got dementia and has just passed there recently. He
was nice to your mothers. Still wouldn't care. But now
I can just spend my days. I mean, I forget
well quite well, supported by working income, and every day

(23:53):
is a blessing because it's like every days a holiday.
I did my thirty years, did my society. Now I
can just have a nice made back life by the
earlier retirement. But it's absolute blessing.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
Well, I'm glad to hear that you found you know
that that peace sphere youself, Dean, you know that's that's
absolutely fantastic. And hold tight to that, hold tight to that.
It sounds like you you've earned it more than more
than most. Okay, thank you nicely from your mate. You go, well, yeah,
I suppose you know, I'm just I'm just kind of
you know, hearing what I could hear from from Dean there,

(24:27):
you know, a lot lot of gratitude for where he's
ended up.

Speaker 5 (24:30):
Yeah, And I mean, so far, we've had two people
who have left jobs because they were unhappy and unsatisfied, which,
as we talked about at the top of the show, right,
there's one of the solutions. But what's really tough is
when you can't do that.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, yep, yep, And that's that's the big challenge, right,
because that's not an option for everyone, Like you're saying,
you know, pretty tough finding a job out there for
a lot of folk. At the moment, it's like, well,
you know, is that actually an option?

Speaker 5 (24:53):
Got a mortgage to pay be a choice that many
can't make?

Speaker 3 (24:57):
Devo textas and he says, here, Hi, there I got.
I had a job of nine years, of which I
used to love, but then my boss became abusive, controlling
and preyed on my vulnerability. It got to a stage
where I was vomiting on my way to work. Two
years ago, I had a workplace injury and I lost
my job three months later, and I'm still awaiting surgery
and I now suffer PTSD. I'm sixty. Now, my prospects

(25:19):
of returning to work are compromised. My boss showed no
remorse for his bad behavior.

Speaker 5 (25:26):
Yeah, and that just goes to show how much of
an impact I can have, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
And so when you know, DAVEO, I'm really sorry to
hear that. And you know no one should be, you know,
having to have a spit on the way to work.
You know, that's not that that's your body telling you
that actually, you know, this is not good for me.
You know I can't do this, But this is the
other thing there, Kyle. If I can't leave my job

(25:50):
because I know that, you know, I'm actually probably I
need this job, what are the things that I can
do to be able to look after my mental health,
you know outside of the eight hours or the ten
hour shift that I'm doing well.

Speaker 5 (26:05):
I think the first thing that we have to do
is we have to find somewhere someone to be able
to talk to about it, because actually that that sense
that we can burst the bubble often because one of
the things about workplaces is they have cultures, and it
can sometimes feel like it is massive because it is,

(26:26):
but it can completely take over and dominate our life.
And one of the ways to start breaking that spell
is to find someone. It might be a flatmate, might
be a partner, might be a friend. It might need
to be a counselor or someone professional, but find someone
that you can talk to and get a bit of
a reality check, because often it can be hard to
know whether or not what you're experiencing is okay or

(26:47):
not because it's the old you know, the old frog
in the boiling pot of water thing, right that actually,
over time we get used to something which is awful
because it's just how it is day in day out.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
Yeah, you can become conditioned exactly, Okay, finding someone to
talk to, someone to be able to actually you know,
like you said, have that reality check with th that's
really really good to keep in mind. All Right, we're
going to take a break. When we come back, I've
got Pete on the line. I'd love to have you
as well. Ide hundred and eighty ten eighty back soon
here on the Nutters Club.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
their on news talks it'd be.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Hey, welcome back to the show. We'd love you called
tonight II one hundred and eighty ten eighty you know
the number. Let's go straight to the lines. Pete good
eatn't here?

Speaker 6 (27:32):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm all right.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
I sound terrible, but I'm actually fine.

Speaker 6 (27:37):
Yeah good h I was born and bringing the farm.
I've done quite a few jobs of the sport and
bringing me Dead's farm and when are other farms I
know about here to look after the animals, look after
the calls the best well being for the animal at
the care and the cow sheet. Yeah okay, and I've
done a lot of it's a lot of jobs broakemok

(27:59):
takers and whatever. He's got on an engineering all that
sort of stuff. But I'll go back to farming. I
quite like this as the o he came back hop
and go up farming. That's I might get into the
bomb in a farm or whatever. I've applied for the
farm job, and I went to an interview and had
this house. It was all nice as the fireplace. Going
is an old staying. Don't always judge the book by

(28:22):
the cover.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yes, I agree, Pete.

Speaker 6 (28:26):
So I went for this job. It was all good,
and it started as good. Thought he would have been
a thing. So there's a lot of employers out there,
a free manipulous, pretty tunning and so probably for this job.
I got it at the end as I started working
on there. And and I don't know if you much

(28:48):
know much about the side of milking cows and a sheep.
My dad always see we're in the sheep and the cows.
Basically didn't know much about cows at all.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, No, I've actually got We've got a fair bit
of family, the dairy farmers, so I've I've I've been
through the shed a couple of times, so basically what.

Speaker 6 (29:10):
It is you got those cows and the sheep will
use this in the babbles a hearing bone sheet. I did,
always did or for their farm ways. I used to
part time walking to really smalking me younger days. I
think quite a good stockman. I knew the best well
being for the animal youth and knew when there was
not to be crawled at animals, and then how to

(29:32):
look after animals. And I was in the sheep and
quite often you're in the sheet of the hearing bone.
You waiting for the cows to come down the hearing
bone into the sheet, you know, so they put the
put the back in the bar behind the cows of
all on the hearing bone in that side. I was
always taught you take the caps off when the cows finished,

(29:54):
for the well being of the animals. Otherwise you get
the starter's right, pretty come any good farmers that. But
he's a good guy in this ship because he's doing
the beds for the cow. You don't leave the caps
on and the sucking away, and he's the suck at
the SA that's got called the animal cruelty. I was
doing taking the coup off. I was waiting for the
cow to come down down down the row of the

(30:15):
hearing bone waiting on. First, I thought I was just
standing around doing nothing, and this father said, oh, and
my cow sheep, you do not take the cops off.
You only take the coups off and you put them
on the other cow. When then I though that's stupid.
I said, was that's cruelty to the animal on the
other side of the of the shed, the other side

(30:37):
of the hearing bone, when that cow's finished, which he's
saving you time, it is. Since then he had it
in for me. And basically at ten not so nice,
I could stay and I ate three three people I
don't mentioned any name, and I had three managers basically
him and the two farmer. They eat in the demp
me and I actually thought is playing mind game. So

(31:01):
what I did in the end was I went to
know doctor about this and talked about it. Stuff wrong
with few peep. You get out of that job real quick.
You could be hanging up in the cow she is.
I did that, please. I did that. But then the
farmers wonder why turned me off farming. After that, I

(31:21):
just went well to the industry that you're in and
that and now they wonder why they can't get workers
because of household farmers are very manipulators to their workers,
and it happens and it's still going on today.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Well, I think you've you've brought up a lot of
really good things that you know, Pete, for us to
talk about, and one of them is the idea that
you know, people but not being able to handle being wrong.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
You know.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
I guess you know, we could say maybe that's the
ego or or you know, just somebody who feels like
they've got to be right. But ultimately I just want
to praise the fact that you went and had a
chat to somebody, and in this case, you went and
need a chat to your doctor. You know, I think
that's actually really good because a lot of the time
the problem is, is Kyle will tell you, is that
you know, people just internalize it.

Speaker 5 (32:05):
Well, I really like about what your GP said was
they said, it's not you, nothing wrong with you, You
can do that job standing on your head and helped
you reality check it. Just like we were talking about
before the break, that actually what we often needed someone
just to say no.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
That doesn't sound right. But can I ask you how
did it feel when your doctor said that to you,
because you know, you went to ask them for you know,
for some insight, and you heard that. What were you
thinking when they said that to you?

Speaker 6 (32:32):
Well, I knew I've been around, I've get on people
pretty well. I got I was pretty god and I'm
not blowing my trumpet. He but I knew it wasn't me.
But he turned against me because he knew that I
was also noted on their farm too, was a farm
manager when we were. When you were on a farm,
when you got a sick animal laying or whatever, you

(32:52):
always kick that cow close to the shed so he
doesn't have to walk away the back of the farm.
It's cruelty for the animal, that makes sense. And this
cow was sick and it wasn't well, and I just said,
and I basically I said, and here's a matter, So
you don't argue, you just go along with the plate.
That's why I sort of die, I am. And then
I had to lock the cows. And I saw the

(33:14):
cow and is he wasn't well. And I so I
parted into mixed paddict places. I don't want to walk
to the back of where the cows were, and were
all the way down three putters an hour down to
the end of this rack, quite a long far. I said,
now I'm going to part with them the next padic.
He doesn't have to walk any feeler than he has
to cut along story short. He actually had he had

(33:38):
milk feeders. I had to shoot and get a plottle
of the cowshon for him. And it's another thing. So
I had the manager turned against me, plus the father.
It was not nice. I basically I had anything other
work against me as well. So it was and that
can happened, And I said, not a nice place to see.
I had enough guts to realize that it's time to

(34:01):
get out. I please. I saw the doctor. Anybody out
there had the same situation or a farm work or whatever,
talk it out and amongst your friends or whatever, go
to your doctor and don't let that bully take advantage
of the wife. You could be a statistic. He could
be a done a suicide base on that farm. And
and it still happens today. And you know, kick you

(34:22):
out of the house. Do you only get two weeks
early unless you're in town. You can tell the boss
with the stickies job.

Speaker 7 (34:28):
You're on a farm.

Speaker 6 (34:29):
That farm only in two weeks to get out of
their house because I hadn't notice. Right there went every
day off. I gave my notice and so I see
my employment from this point. And he didn't like it
because farmer was a part of the farmers. They use
you for the carving.

Speaker 8 (34:46):
Time, all right, yep, yep, yep, and also when to.

Speaker 6 (34:50):
Get the cows and carved. Then they start making excuses
to get rid of the worker.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Well, look at you. I just want to say, I'm
really glad that you did what was right for you,
and I think your advice is really good. There is
just actually, you know, look after yourself and talk to
somebody else outside the situation, get some perspective and make
a plan. Now the plan might be a bit different,
you know, depending on the person in the situation, but
your plan worked for you. Pete, thank you so much

(35:18):
for calling tonight. Awesome, awesome insight, much appreciative. Okay, we're
going to take a break. When we come back, I've
got a whole heap of text, but I'd love to
hear from you as well, So give us a bell.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty your experiences, your
experiences and how they impacted your mental health when it
comes to employment. What did you do to be able

(35:40):
to manage some of the stresses that either as an
employee or as an employer that you've experienced. Pete, Pete,
we don't had a yarn to his doctor just to
get a bit of perspective and it helped to make
a plan. What is it that you do let us know.
We're back shortly here on the Nutters Club.

Speaker 9 (35:59):
air on News Talks.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
That'd be Hey, welcome back to the show. We're talking
tonight about your experiences when it comes to the workplace
and how it impacts your mental health. And I'm always
interested to hear about what it is that people do
when they're faced with challenging situations. So look, I've got
another text here though comes it's slightly different and it
says I've just started a new job, absolutely love it. However,

(36:29):
I'm only three weeks in and I've had to take
five days off due to having to stay at home
with our sick, sick kids. We have a two or
three year old normally in daycare, so they'd get every gym. Yeah,
whilst my employer has been amazing and says all the
right things. You know, family first, it's no worries, et cetera.
But I feel so bad and now my child's sick again.

(36:52):
My partner and I are trying to juggle argue who
needs to be at work more, knowing someone has to
stay home again tomorrow. It's the biggest stress we have
at the moment, and I'm just worried about what all
my new colleagues will be thinking of me. That's a
really interesting one.

Speaker 6 (37:08):
Call.

Speaker 5 (37:09):
Yeah, it is an interesting one because, I mean, let's
be really clear in case people don't know it, you're
sickly if you're entitled to use your sickly for your
own sickness or the sickness of a dependent. So it's
perfectly fine to stay home sick if your kids are sick.
That's a legitimate use of sick leaf. Tricky if you
don't have the sick leaf yet, because of course that's

(37:29):
the thing. We're starting in a new job right as
you don't haven't necessarily accumulated the sick leaf. I guess
what I'm hearing is is dealing with the feeling of guilt.
And I think the thing that's really important to be
clear about is that your employer is actually saying all
the right things and actually telling you that it is fine.
I think the most important thing is to just to

(37:51):
continue to be really upfront with your manager, to give
them a call to say, hey, I feel awful, this
is a terrible situation, and to be flexible. Maybe there's
some work that you can do from home, Maybe there's
a way that you can offer to help out, you know,
but actually rest your feelings in an appropriate way to

(38:12):
let them know that actually you are wanting to do
the best thing here, but you are a bit stuck.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Yeah. I think that's one hundred percent. The best way
is the best policy. Just be really upfront, really honest
about it and say, you know, your words exactly were
really good. If you're still listening text so they didn't
put a name on it, but just saying, you know,
this is a terrible situation.

Speaker 5 (38:33):
I'm really really sorry about this, And look, is there
something you know, if I've got my laptop at home,
is there something I can do to help out from home? Well,
you know, while kids asleep, I can do my best.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Hey, all the best here their text or I hope
that situation works out. And I hope your little ones
feel better soon. Stuff with Dacre, because she's absolutely right.
They do come home with every bug under the sun.
We know my wife's a primary school teacher.

Speaker 5 (38:54):
She would have a very strong immune system.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
I'm surprised that we don't get more sick, yeah, because
we don't really get sick.

Speaker 5 (39:00):
And just to be clear, I might sound terrible, but
she probably gets inoculated. I mean, my partner's a pharmacist,
and I think she's been inoculated about it. But every
bug under the sun she doesn't get sack over.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
I've got time for another one. Here's this one. This
is from anonymous, which is absolutely fine, says Hey, guys,
sorry for the long message. Don't apologize. It's all right.
So three four months ago, I started a new job
in the security industry. And I've been with this company
off and on for six to seven years, and they
offered me a full time contract, which I resigned. Resigned

(39:34):
as long as I resigned from the job that I
loved and worked here and thought that I'd love it.
The day I was supposed to start was the same
day my dad passed away, and since that day, all
the negativity from the staff like I'm just taking the
mickey and I'm just here to take all the hours
and always getting negativity on me. I've reached out to
the old place I resigned from and I'm trying to
get a job back there with them, as it means

(39:56):
I can travel the country and whatnot other people with
I'm with it at the moment. I just feel like
I'm not wanted at the current place and it's all
night shifts, so there's some lonely hours and just impacts
me physically and emotionally. Yeah, okay, so that's again, that's
a bit of a tough situation to be in terms
of you know, you've you've started something new, you had
your dad's passing. Look, I don't know what you reckon

(40:19):
call my first My first thing is with their thought
is is like, if you know you've got another place
that you could potentially work and you feel comfortable in that,
especially after having lost your dad, then go where you
know that you're going to feel most comfortable at this
point in your life. You know you're probably going to
be going through a few things, which is totally normal.
But I would say if you can go back to

(40:39):
the old job, and that's where you want to be.

Speaker 5 (40:41):
Do it absolutely, And I think the important thing is,
and I don't hear the text of doing this, which
is great, is don't kick yourself in the ass about it.
You know you made a change, didn't work. You're allowed
to make mistakes. Fix the mistake.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Well, look, I hope that you know it sounds like
your old employee were quite nice, so hopefully you'd hope
that they'll take you back. Look again.

Speaker 5 (41:05):
I think honesty is the best policy to say, Look,
you know I made a mistake here. I didn't realize
how good I had it. I'd love to come back
if you can have me.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
See what they say. Yeah, I mean I would even
go as far to say as that, you know, since
the passing of your dad, you thought that maybe you
just needed to reconsider a few things. And you had
a thought and you'd actually quite like to be where.
You know that you've been looked after and kid for great.
Who could say no to that? All right, We're gonna
keep taking your calls, keep taking your texts. One hundred
and eighty ten eighty. If you want to line up

(41:34):
your conversation with us, we'd love to talk to you
after news Sport and weather otherwise, flick us a text
on nine two nine two back soon here tonight on
another's club. Wish to me, shut to get away from me?

(41:56):
Still is no singing, good.

Speaker 7 (42:28):
Run song.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
Send sitting long call true. Nobody knows what I'm.

Speaker 9 (42:35):
Going this, This is this, This is the Nutters Club.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Thanks to New Zealand on News talks'd be oh, we
got there eventually, didn't we. Welcome back to the Lusters Club.
Producer status scratching. Yeah, he's on the decks, he's on
the dicks. He did it on purpose, he tells meet Yeah,
good good eye that the Nutters Club. Yeah, the dance
remakes coming out as will be going off in the clubs. Anyway, Hey, look,

(43:03):
over the last hour, we've been talking about our mental
health experiences when it comes to the workplace. And one
of the reasons I wanted to talk about this is
that's actually something we know really compounds for people on
a Sunday night and an early Monday morning. It can
be the reason why some people just find Sunday nights

(43:23):
really really difficult. And you know what, I would be
lying if I didn't say that. You know, there were
periods in my life where I'd say that that was
one hundred percent in the case where you know, you
had to go and go to a workplace that perhaps,
probably if you're being honest, didn't really want to be.
And yet you've got to right because you've got commitments,

(43:45):
You've got commitments you've made to people through the work,
you need to earn, earn a living, all these kind
of things. But it can weigh us down and it
can really start to grind, and ultimately it can potentially
have a negative impact on our mental health. So how
do you handle it when it may be having that

(44:05):
not so good outcome, and how do we keep our
self healthy. Main feedback that I think we've had over
the last hour would really be about being able to
have somebody to talk to, being able to get some
objective assessment on the situation so that at the very
least you can figure out what your options might be.

(44:25):
Little thing that we've talked about is communicating with your
employer after something going on that perhaps like they may
not always realize is going on, give them the option
to do the right thing or to actually perhaps change something.

Speaker 5 (44:39):
And if you do have a good relationship, trust the
relationship you know and you know, we're not here to
give employment legal advice, but I do think it's important
to get that advice. And often the Community Law Center
Citizens Advice Bureau. If you're a union member, the unions
often have a helpline you can just call up and

(45:00):
ask questions about things, get that advice. But a lot
of times what we're talking about is actually, how does
work make you feel? How do you deal with that
emotional aspect of being in a place that may not
always be optimal.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
We see, I'm lucky because I like working with you. Yeah,
me too, you know, Otherwise I don't know, it would
have been a weird sort of almost ten years that
you know, we've been doing this on Sunday nights. Imagine that.
Imagine like not only Sunday nights at a terrible time,
but you had to go and do your Sunday night
with someone you didn't particularly like.

Speaker 5 (45:30):
It would be a different show if we just turned
up and aged with each other for two hours, wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Yeah, But I mean it worked for those old guys
in the Muppets, you know, there was a whole thing,
you know, Hudson and Hall, you know they had I mean,
they had a bit of a love hate relationship of
all sorts, don't they They did, There'll probably a few
too many drinks on the before they turned the cameras on,
but made for good, good watching for a few years there.
But then in the other the other senses that we've said,

(45:54):
you know, being able to actually get somebody from outside
the situation to give you some perspective to figure out
what it is. Is it you? Is there something else
going on? I really loved Dan, who called him you know,
talked and talked about he actual would.

Speaker 7 (46:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (46:09):
I think that's great advice, But I also think there's
that slow grind too, because and I think I often
talk to people like this. It's what emotions make us do,
as they make us want to act in the short term,
and the short term might not be the best place
to take action. It's not the same as saying suck
it up. But I think sometimes when things are tough,
we do actually have to refocus on what our priorities are.

(46:30):
And it might be that the unfortunate reality is that
our priority is getting money in the door looking after
our family, and so we might need to radically accept
that things aren't great in the short term, but that
doesn't mean working towards something different in the medium term,
whether that's upskilling yourself, whether it's knocking on doors, whether
it's putting out feelers or taking some time off to

(46:53):
think about what do I actually really want to do.
Maybe it is a change of course, or maybe it's
just going and working somewhere else and then how to
make that happen. But I think sometimes the emotions can
cause us to make quick decisions which might not always
be the best decisions.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Yeah, definitely have a plan. Yeah, you know, especially if
you want to exit, and.

Speaker 5 (47:11):
It might be a twelve month plan and that's okay,
something to work towards.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Plans can change too, they can. Let's have a look here.
Got a text pece a chair from Tabitha. Tabitha says,
for me, work is my salvation my whole life, I've
never felt I fit in anywhere, including my own family.
Then I started volunteering in an op shop and found
a group of quirky individuals who are all bonded by

(47:37):
wanting to be of service to our community. I feel
valued and appreciated. I've discovered talents I never knew I had.
I've been open about my mental health struggles and supported,
and I'm able to go at my own plate pace
and i can take time off if needed. I'm very
grateful to have found my tribe.

Speaker 5 (47:57):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
Interesting, the idea of sometimes doing the service thing too right.

Speaker 5 (48:03):
Absolutely, I mean, you know, I think a lot of
times we get stuck on this idea that we have
to find all our meaning and work. You know that
old saying if you find a job you love, you
never work another day in your life. I mean, it's
great if that's your experience, but it might not be.
It might be that actually your job is what you
do for money, and that what you do for meaning
and satisfaction something else. And I know this person's talking

(48:23):
about volunteer work in a slightly different way, but I
think even if you have a full time job, you
could still volunteer and get your meaning in other places.
I think a lot of people get that from say,
coaching sports teams or helping out with their you know,
their kids' activities, and those sorts of things. Those are
then the things to look forward to in the week.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
I think it's really good to have something else in
your life outside of your work. Now, you know, you
might say family, relationship, sure, but I think having something
else you can do it can be really tricky because
you end up being very time poor. And I get it,
you know, like you've got to rush around. But I
have other things I do in my life where I
don't get paid, but they take a lot of my time.

(49:01):
But I really enjoy it and it can you get
value from them, oh absolutely, And it connects me to
something else outside of my work.

Speaker 5 (49:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
And sometimes you know, sometimes, like anything, it gets a
little political, and you know, there's sometimes there's different personalities,
but that's all part of it as well. For the
most part, I enjoy it, and if I didn't, I
wouldn't do it absolutely.

Speaker 5 (49:23):
I mean I've done volunteer work as some description, whether
it be counseling work or sort of advocacy and other things,
even a political party for a while because I find
those things. I found them interesting and you get your
meaning and the value from actually being involved, and often
it's actually just meeting a really interesting bunch of people.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
When I started in radio, I didn't get paid. Right
when I started in TV, I didn't get paid, yep.
But that's how you got your foot in the door.
That's how I got my foot in the door. See
how how I got going? And to be fair, you know,
that's that's been the basis of learning how to do
a whole bunch of stuff. And here I am.

Speaker 5 (49:56):
It seems to have have worked Hamish, It's okay, it's.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
All right now. Look, I would love to hear more
from you guys, though, Give us about oh, eight hundred
and eighty ten eighties the number. All you can text
us on nine two nine two. What in your experience
answers in the workplace in terms of how it's affected
your mental health. We've actually now had a bit of
a counter you know, we've heard about how it's affected
mental health in a good way as well. So being
able to find meaning in sometimes doing those other roles

(50:21):
can be just as valuable as not being able to
work for you so well, so let us know I
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number. Or
you can give us a text on nine two ninety two.
These text This text says, hi yah, hi, yeah. I
work at a fast food a fast food outlet. For

(50:42):
a few years. Most of us were young teenagers working
their first job, and our managers definitely took advantage of
us not knowing our employee rights, etc.

Speaker 5 (50:53):
Can happen.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
I would be doing an amazing job, but as soon
as I'd make mistakes, she would scream at me, swear
at me. She even called me stupid. Well, Nana had died,
so I requested my two days of bereavement lya, but
she refused to give me two days and only gave
me one. Thank you loving the topic tonight. So that's
interesting because it is Yeah, that's that that that would

(51:15):
be one of the things that you were talking about.
You know, like we're saying we ain't lawyers. We definitely
ain't given you legal advice. Let me put a little
plug in.

Speaker 5 (51:23):
Okay, mind, go on go. And this is not political.
This is this is very much about how what actually works.
If you work in a workplace where there is a union,
join it doesn't cost very much. And those are exactly
the kinds of situations that that unions are really grateful.
When young people are in a situation where they don't
have necessarily power and don't know their rights, unions can

(51:45):
be really really helpful in those situations because actually it's
about relying on each other.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Yeah, I had a workplace to where there was a union,
and I joined the union and then there was a
big restructuring going through and basically the union the union,
I went and talked to them and they handled the
whole whole process for me.

Speaker 7 (52:04):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
They're like, nope, this is what's going to happen, this, this, this, this, this,
And I'm like, oh, but my employe is telling me this, this,
this and this, and they mean, ah, that ain't happening.
And that was really good. And so somebody else on
my behalf had those tricky conversations. Yeah, and to be fair,
someone who was a hell of a lot better at
it than me.

Speaker 5 (52:22):
Absolutely, you don't need to get a lawyer if you
if you remember of a union, they take care of
all of that.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
So yeah, yep, so there you go. All right, what
else have I got going on here? I've just got
another couple of quick text messages. This one says, you know,
bullying attracts bullies. Workplace teams who have bully bosses pass
on their bully bullying tactics and it all becomes competitive,
but the bullies remain unaware. So that's that's just an observation.

(52:46):
I mean, this is the text that says, or do
they but I sometimes do they know, do they know
what they're doing? Do you know what I'd tell you
the mark that I've seen of what a really good,
a really good employer looks like. And I actually just
saw it the other night. Now I won't say who
it is because because they probably don't probably wouldn't be

(53:06):
all that happy with me, and I don't know them
well enough because it only just met them. But some
of the very reasonably seen your job and going and
talking a big organization and going and talking to frontline workers,
you know, the people at the front line, you could say,
you could say from an observation, you would say doing
what might be considered by some to be a lonely job.

(53:30):
They went and check them in the person to make
you know, I saw them going check on the group
of people to make sure that everything was all right
and how they're going, And you know, they got it.
They knew exactly who this person was, but they took
the time to go and talk to them. Because ultimately,
in a business, you know, and in an employment situation,
you need everyone to be doing and you know, doing

(53:50):
what they need to do and to be turning up
and bring their best because if you don't. He's the thing. Actually,
it's dysfunctional. Businesses don't work particularly well. And when you
see people who understand that and they demonstrate that by
taking an interest at all levels of what people do,
then that's a great place.

Speaker 5 (54:08):
I completely agree. And that only works if it's genuine.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Oh it was genuine.

Speaker 5 (54:13):
Yeah, absolutely. I can tell you that that's about genuinely
caring and genuinely wanting to have a relationship and connect
with people that work in your workplace.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
I'll tell you they're probably a pretty good person to
work for.

Speaker 5 (54:23):
Well done.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Then we're going to take a break. When we come back,
I've got Matthew on the line. I'd love to hear
from you as well. Eight hundred and eighty ten and
eighty back soon here on Another's Club.

Speaker 9 (54:32):
This is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand on News.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
Dogs'd be hey, welcome back to the show. Let's go
straight to the line, shall we, Matthew, good morning to you.

Speaker 8 (54:42):
Oh good morning. Because we've only got so much time
on the radio, Like I'd like to go straight to
the mathematics. Okay, let's do it.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Oh hi, yeah, let's go straight to the numbers.

Speaker 9 (54:59):
Go for it.

Speaker 8 (55:01):
Yeah, go straight to the numbers. Okay, let's go straight
to the numbers. Okay, it does not matter what I say,
psychologist says, or a psychiatric doctor says, because once we
reach past that subject of who we are balance between
our lives anyway, a psychologist or a psychiatric doctor can

(55:27):
only do so much for everybody that goes through the system.
But when it comes to the imbalance of like oh okay, now,
oh thank you, we've been through the psychiatric system. But
now it comes back to the numbers. Now when I

(55:47):
say it comes back to the numbers, the numbers come
back to the government. The government has given us a
order of numbers that we have to live by in life.
I'll give you an example of a reality.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
Okay, I like the reality example meant you.

Speaker 9 (56:08):
Go for it.

Speaker 8 (56:10):
Okay, I'll go for now. I'm going to tell you
their reality because there are so many listeners that are
already living in this reality. If we as told by
mental health to oh, suddenly get a job tomorrow, yeah, okay, well, okay,

(56:30):
that's one hand of the subject. We might be able
to do that on the electronic system where we're taxed.
So where we are tax in reality is saying, Okay,
I get a job tomorrow to get twenty dollars an hour,
and the mental health system suddenly legally is deducting nineteen

(56:55):
point five percent tax on the legal tax system in
New Zealand. That's nineteen point five percent tax, and then
another forty five percent tax when somebody is living on
the support living payment that is signed off by the

(57:17):
doctors in New Zealand. And then yes, yeah, I'm just
saying the mathematics and then the rest of my income
and then I have to pay the bus fare to
go to that job and back to that job.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
That's true, that's true, myth yesh, Yeah, yeah, I mean
I think that's that's the way when we weigh up
just about anything.

Speaker 5 (57:42):
You know, Look, I take Matthew's point. I think getting
from zero to getting going again can it should be
really hard. And you know, I've had plenty of clients
over the years have really struggled with that that when
you're right on the on the edge of how many
hours WIND allows you to work before they start reducing
your benefit, and it can be a really hard balancing act.
I think the thing to remember is that getting back

(58:05):
into the workplace is something that you can access support for.
So there are agencies NGOs like WISS, like other pathways
and other organizations around the country. And if you do,
if you are in the mental health system and you're
not in work, talk to your key worker. Those agents
and agencies exist and they support people back into the
workplace because it is really hard, and of course you

(58:27):
better off working more than you are working less, but
getting yourself moving after a while can be really challenging.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
Yeah, and also too when it comes to working with
When something that I learned a little while ago, I
was working on a story with a lady who had
bought her or she put an apartment and it was
sort of like an apartment that was already being subsidized
for you know, for the first time buyers. Oh yeah,
and I didn't realize. She didn't realize until she got

(58:56):
a really good case worker how many subsidies she was
actually entitled to. She didn't know. And she said, and
they don't publicize it.

Speaker 5 (59:05):
They don't give you a menu in the waiting room.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
No, no, that's not the But if you can find
somebody who knows this and the best person to go
and find this from, it can probably help you as
Citizen and Advice Bureau.

Speaker 5 (59:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Absolutely, And I think that's where she'd gone and got
it from memory when I remember doing the story, and
she said, you know, I would never have been able
to afford to buy my own apartment her first time,
you know, based on my income. But I've actually ended
up doing a whole bunch of things that have helped
you make it so that I can. And she said,

(59:37):
you know, and it was all of the subsidies that
had come because she said, just on my income alone,
there's no way i'd be here. But I was entitled
to this, that and the other.

Speaker 5 (59:43):
But she asked and she found out.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
Yeah, and she had someone supporting her too, and had
that had that advocate, So I get it. Thank you, Matthew.
Good for us to have a bit of a bit
of a reality check on that one. We I guess
I'm just going to go to another couple of text
messages here. This Texasus says, it's so good once you've
been at a place of work for a long time

(01:00:06):
and people know you and you're work ethic, but it's
so hard when you're new in a job and trying
to form new work relationships, et cetera. And people are
forming an impression of who you are. I agree with that.

Speaker 10 (01:00:19):
I do.

Speaker 5 (01:00:19):
I think starting a new job is actually really stressful.
It's stressful in a good way potentially, but it does
a lot of work because just remembering everyone's names and
you know, and then starting up those conversations and figuring
out where people sit in the lunch room and you
sit in the wrong chair, and then you know, you've
got to figure out how to fit in right. It's
like starting a new school.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Yeah, and then somebody, somebody brings up something, you know,
it could be something in the news, could be a
sports team, all sorts of things. I think I've put
my foot in it a few times, surely, not definitely
have No, I think I'm pretty I'm pretty good at
putting my foot on it. Yeah, yeah, both because I'm
just sort of like, oh, the thing with the thing,
oh that. Then you know, you're like, why has everyone

(01:01:02):
gone quiet? And it's hystaric at me now, and it's like, oh,
I said the wrong thing, didn't I You're like, yeah,
and that happens. It does totally happens. But you know what,
I think, honestly, just with you, if you're doing it,
just be polite. It's an R Sharks moment, you know,
be polite, and if you do make a mistake, as
I always do, I just just down't it, just be like, oh,

(01:01:24):
look I really messed up on that one. People are
usually quite forgiving if you just acknowledge your mistakes when
you go along. Absolutely that's been my experience. Hey, look
we're going to take a break. When we come back.
I've got Trisha on the line, so we'll have a
yarm with her. I've still got a couple of lines free,
so we'd love to talk to you as well. Oh
eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the phone number.
We're talking about how employment the workplace affects our mental

(01:01:48):
health and actually, interestingly enough, we've heard cases tonight and
examples of it being both good and not so good.
But we'd like to hear what yours has been like
and how if it's not so good, how do you
manage to keep the balance for yourself. Some people talking
about doing other things, you know, outside of their work lives,
some voluntary work just to kind of have a bit

(01:02:09):
more meaning. So that doesn't feel like it's all wrapped
up and you know, in your work life. So I
get that. But let's see what Trish's got to say
after the break here tonight on The Nutters Club.

Speaker 9 (01:02:18):
This is The Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand on
air on news dogs.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
'b Welcome back to the show. I'm so sorry, like
just so you understand. So you know what, if you're
listening at home, obviously this is this is a little
bit of an insight into our workplace where we have
a little conversation during the ads and sometimes we say
things that make us laugh and then we have to
try and like pull it back immediately as we come
out of the ads. I think that, you know, a

(01:02:45):
bit of humor in the workplace makes for a good workplace.

Speaker 5 (01:02:48):
So I reckon, I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
And sometimes we'll go, oh, you know, well, you know
you've got to keep it politically correct and all that.
And I'm not saying be offensive, no, I think, you know,
just the exercise good judgment is a pretty good rule
for life anyway. You know, you want good team building
in an employment situation, just be able to have a laugh,
but you don't necessarily have to take everyone for a
do you know the trust somewhere.

Speaker 5 (01:03:10):
The first person. You should always be prepared to laugh
at yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Yeah, I think that's pretty sound advice. Let's go have
a yarm with trash trash. Good mining to you.

Speaker 10 (01:03:19):
Hello, Yeah, a loveless mantes three zi be because it
reminds me of you know, things that have happened in
the past, and your topic tonight is one of them.
But this experience I had was a very long time ago,
and it left me feeling full of despair and grief,

(01:03:46):
you know about employment and that sort of thing. Yeah.
I worked in a legal office and loved it, a
very very busy switchboard and one day I came back
from a break to find a letter on my desk
saying that that I was no longer going to be

(01:04:09):
employed by them, And you know, I was totally shocked
and wondering what a nurse had happened. But later on
one of the solicitors there left the company and he
was appointed a judge in another city, and he came

(01:04:30):
back and went back to the old employment. He had
just to say hello to everybody, and he was quite
shocked to find that I wasn't there, and he actually
wrote me a lovely reference which I've still got and yeah.
So it was just terrible and I was wondering, you know,

(01:04:54):
how on earth I was going to get another job
without a reference. And anyway, eventually this particular lawyer was
struck off and there was an article in the paper
City Lawyers struck off. And it wasn't mainly because of that.
It was something else that was quite devious that he

(01:05:17):
was involved in. So a bit of a strange story.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
Yeah that sounds really dramatic.

Speaker 10 (01:05:24):
Yeah it was, it was, But you know I did
with the help of this lawyer that was eventually a
judge writing me a lovely reference. I got another position
at the AA. Who so, which I really enjoyed.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
Yeah, ah, interesting. Interesting. So you know you've you've worked
a few different jobs then, from you know, from the
lawyer's office to the AA. Yeah, I can imagine those
are been quite different. They were.

Speaker 10 (01:05:59):
And then I was an office manager for a big
company in christ Church, but that closed due to opposition
from another company.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
The corporate takeover.

Speaker 10 (01:06:12):
Yes exactly. Yeah, but I'm really nervous talking on the radio.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Oh you're doing a great job, Trusure. I mean, you're loving,
loving listening to you. Hey, Trish, tell me though, you know,
because you worked in a few different workplaces and you
had add a few different experiences.

Speaker 5 (01:06:28):
What what for you?

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
What what were the characteristics that made it a place
good to work?

Speaker 10 (01:06:35):
Mainly the you know management and and but when I
worked in that office, you know, his office manager. There
was no other staff, only as storm and you know
the manager. But at the AA, it was so much fun.
I loved it there. There's young staff and I've written

(01:06:57):
quite a few poems about that company in my experiences there. Yeah,
it was a really really lovely position I had there
because I started off as a section on a very
busy switchboard, one of those old plug in ye yeah.

(01:07:18):
And then I was transferred to the travel department and
that was lovely too, domestic travel, and you know, we
went to a few places, you know in New Zealand
and just to make sure that we were up to
date with you know, particular places and all the interests

(01:07:42):
that were to offer you know, our customers. So, you know,
the AA was fantastic to work for.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
I think that's really interesting, Tritian, and great insight from
you as to what you made a place a good
place to work so much of a place it sort
of does come from the top down. You know it
doesn't It can sound a bit tripe, but it's true,
isn't it.

Speaker 10 (01:08:06):
Yes, But the working with young people which I did
at the AA, they was so much fun, you know. Yeah,
I think that's good as you get older, because young
people put a totally different perspective on some you don't
they often they do.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Yeah, I have a there's a movie actually, and I know,
I know tom My, tom My stepdad listening down underneaed
and he's enjoying watching. It's called The Intern and it's
about a guy, and I think a retired guy at
least in his late sixties, maybe early seventies, and he
goes to work as a intern at a tech company.

(01:08:46):
You know, so lots of young people and actually, actually
that relationship between what what can different generations on the
sort of either either or of the spectrum of the
of the working age. What can they learn from each other?
And the answer is actually quite a lot on both
both directions.

Speaker 10 (01:09:05):
Oh definitely, yes, yes, I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
Yes, Oh that's lovely trash. You know what you've really
you've given me a lot of hope and your call tonight,
So thank you for being able to give us a
really positive experience and insight into how good workplaces can be.

Speaker 10 (01:09:22):
Oh that's nice of you. Thank you. Yeah, so I've
told you before maybe stree So I better go to
bed headline.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
Well you sleep, Trash, nice to talk to again.

Speaker 10 (01:09:34):
I love the station, I really do. And so thank
you for taking a call.

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
No, well, thank you for listening, Trish, and you have
a good sleep.

Speaker 9 (01:09:43):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
We're going to take a break when I come back.
I've got Susie and Josh on the line and a
couple of texts coming through. But we're really just getting
into the conversation now, so really enjoying it. We'll take
a break back shortly. Here on The Nutters Club.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
It's overnight talk on News Talks EDB. This is the
Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand air on News Talks EDB.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
Hey, welcome back to the show. We're talking about mental
health in the workplace, the good they're not so good.
How does it affect us and how do we deal
with the pressures of it when it is having an
effect on our mental health? And I think, you know what,
I've really loved hearing from people as it has been
about being open about it. And I think actually just

(01:10:24):
really engaging in it. The worst thing you could possibly do.
And I mean this, if you're listening tonight and hey,
you haven't called or you haven't texted, no worries. But
if you're sitting there tonight and you're just ruminating, that
means you're just going around and around and around with
your thoughts in your head. Honestly, do yourself the biggest
favor you can and find that person to have a

(01:10:44):
chat to.

Speaker 5 (01:10:45):
Absolutely, And the other tip that I wanted to make
sure we got in and we've mentioned it in passing
it a couple of times, make sure you have something
to look forward to. It's a good rule for life generally, right,
but especially if we're sucking a bit at the moment.
Shared your things in the weekend or on the weeknights
that actually you can look forward to at the end
of the day or the end of the week that
I know, I just need to get through the weekend

(01:11:07):
then I can do that thing might be going and
watching a footy game, it might be catching up with
some friends, it might be going away for a night
on the weekend. But put those things in there, because
that's the counterbalance. Like you've said, Hamish. It doesn't all
have to be about work. Sometimes work just kind of sucks,
but we can balance that with other things.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
I used to do that, and it used to be
as simple as looking forward to a TV show that
I liked.

Speaker 5 (01:11:30):
Yep, that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
I was like, Tuesday night, it's going to be me.
It's going to be that. You know, I'm going to
be watching that. I'm looking forward to that, and just
kind of like whenever the whenever, the not so enjoyable
parts of the workplace, we're coming through. Now the frustration
came through, and we will at least have got that
to look forward to.

Speaker 6 (01:11:47):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
The other one I used to do was I guess,
I guess it's similar. You know, you said, footy game whatever.
Used to book movies way in advance. Oh yeah, to
be able to have that.

Speaker 5 (01:11:58):
To look forward to, yeah, put it in the diary.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
Yep, put in the diary. I'm going to go and
see that. I've been looking forward to that. I want
to know, you know, I want to see that. I
like that director, I like that actor, I want to
know that story. Just so I had something to look
forward to and it would take your head away from
oh this is just yet. I never know what's happening.
It's just drudgery after drudgery gave you that little hope
in the horizon, which is what we all need to
get through the next couple of days, because the.

Speaker 5 (01:12:22):
Last thing you want is when you're not at work,
spend all your time thinking about.

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
Work exactly, and so being able to find something to
take yourself out of it really important. Okay, let's go
back to the lines. Susie, good morning to you.

Speaker 11 (01:12:33):
Hi, Hi, how are you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
Yeah, I'm good, good to hear you.

Speaker 11 (01:12:37):
I can identify with this saying. I'm going to start
by saying, I worked in the company for twenty nine years. Yeah,
and I had about four different bosses in those times,
and all the bosses were okay, but the last one,
and this was thirty twelve years ago, I lost my job. Well,
I got the boots from about March tall October. I

(01:13:00):
got bullied. I wasn't hoping with my work because I
put more and more on me and they kept on
blaming me because I had behavior problems. But it wasn't
I suffered from bipolar disorder. It is one of the
most terriblest times I've ever experienced. It was just ongoing.

(01:13:21):
Everything I did was wrong. No good comments came out
of it, and I had a nervous breakdown after all that.
And I had three disciplinary meetings, and of course the
last one was that my job was taken off me.
But when I walked out of that company, I felt
like a low had been lifted off my shoulders. I thought,

(01:13:41):
I don't care if I'm unemployed. I was just pleased
to get out there. And the boss was my boss
at the time. They walked me right off the premises,
and I thought that was disgusting, absolutely disgusting, But no,
I had been willing to as good thing as I
liked about the job I had. My first boss was
absolutely wonderful. She was a gem, and so were the

(01:14:01):
other two. But I'm sorry, but billing was absolutely shocking.
I hadn't got a job now because I don't I'm
not fully well enough to work. But I do work
for habitat for in reality, they build houses, so I
do voluntary work. And I was just so different once.

Speaker 7 (01:14:21):
I got out of there.

Speaker 11 (01:14:22):
But it was a real hell of a time.

Speaker 3 (01:14:25):
And let us know, joke, well, good on you for,
you know, for being able to go and find something
positive to kind of you reclaim and remind you of
your value not just to yourself but to others as well.
And so I'm I'm sorry to hear that that's how
you were treated in the you know, but I think
you know you've got some good clarity and being able

(01:14:45):
to look back on that and see it for what
it was. As you said, the behavior was disgusting, you know,
and that's that's the truth, right, But you know, being
able to go and do that that work for habitat
for humanity. So my understanding of habitat for humanity you
end up building homes and some pretty pretty amazing parts
of the world. Is that what you ended up doing.

Speaker 11 (01:15:08):
Yes, they do, that's what they do. Yet that's what
all the money's done from the shops is to help
build owns.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
So you were you were helping doing fundraising back here?

Speaker 9 (01:15:17):
Were you?

Speaker 11 (01:15:20):
I do the cleaning of the shelves in the shop
on volunteer. So I clean the shelves, I take everything
off them, put them back on and I love it.
I've been there for about ten years and they are marvelous.

Speaker 8 (01:15:34):
To work for.

Speaker 11 (01:15:36):
And I was scared if I see someone coming towards
me today, I'm scared that they're going to put me
down or something, because I still am scarred from the
company I worked in because so much happened. Sure, I
had to have counseling over it, but I've never ever
been so bullied in my lifetime.

Speaker 7 (01:15:51):
And that is no lie.

Speaker 11 (01:15:52):
It was absolutely shocking. I was actually tried to end
my life a couple of times. And that's no lie either.
That's how bad it was absolutely shocking.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
Well, I'm glad to hear that. You know, you went
and did the counseling, And I think what I'd like
to ask you, Susie, is you know when when you
went and did that, how did you feel after you know,
you've gone through that process and you know, compared to
how you when you started it?

Speaker 11 (01:16:19):
Yeah, I was okay, I was. It was just actually
the tea. Honestly, I only went counseling for it about
six months ago. I was holding on to it and
so yeah, it gave me a good insight and I
was I had a good counselor and I was able
to let off my chest and I had very supportive

(01:16:39):
friends when I left my job, and it's just amazing.
And I'm still in contact with my very first boss
because she was marvelous and but no, it made me
feel better, It really did, after I had talked to
somebody about it and had that counseling a better insight.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
Yeah, I think I think that's probably the key insight
that you know you're sharing with us tonight, is actually
being able to process and make sense of what the
hell was that? What happened?

Speaker 7 (01:17:06):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
And and and can I ask how long between when
you finished the job and you went into the counseling,
how long was that time period?

Speaker 11 (01:17:15):
Well, it was only about eighteen months ago.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
Okay, Yeah, that's till we wanting on to.

Speaker 11 (01:17:20):
It and hanging on to it. And I only got
rid of my minutes. I kept them in the house
here for ages. I only got rid of them last year.
My girlfriend said, for goodness sake, rip them up and
get rid of them.

Speaker 3 (01:17:31):
Yep, no good advice, Susie. And I think, if anything,
you know, I think it's a good idea for demonstrating
the value of just being able to address these things.
You know, you've done it in your own time, and
I'm glad to hear that it's worked out well for you.
But you know, you can't let it. You can't just
let it sit there and fester. He no, no, good
on you, hey, Susie, bloody good work, gold star. I'm

(01:17:53):
proud of you for going and doing that.

Speaker 11 (01:17:55):
Okay, you go, well, had a great week.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
Thank you for everything you do for Habitat, for humanity,
everyone just doing the little bit to help each other
out there. That's actually how we move things forward, gol absolute.

Speaker 5 (01:18:08):
And you know again, volunteer work is a really great
way to get yourself back into to work space and
actually just defines a meaning.

Speaker 10 (01:18:17):
Do you know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
It's so dude, It's funny, isn't it, Because you know,
you go and do a job right, and you get
the paycheck. You know you've got to because you signed
the contract. But sometimes it's the just people saying thank
you and actually making you feel valued as a person,
not as an asset. Pretty simple way, you know, And
you go, how hard is that? Like, how hard is

(01:18:39):
it to actually just say to people, you know, thank
you so much what you do for us, man, We're
lucky to have you. Is it really that hard?

Speaker 5 (01:18:49):
Probably for some, sadly, but it shouldn't be. You're absolutely right.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
I just I just don't I just don't think it's
that difficult, you know, and and and you know, white
one on earth. Can't you can't you just say nice
things to people? Oh look, you know if you say please,
thank you, and let people know.

Speaker 5 (01:19:10):
I appreciate it, thank you very much, and tell you
what the.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
Best time to let people know what you think of
them and if you value them. Do it on a
Sunday night, yep, when people need to hear it the most.
Sometimes absolutely on that night. We're going to take a break.
When we come back. I've got Josh, he's hanging on
the line waiting to go. If you've got anything you
want to contribute to the conversation, well, now is the
time because we're going to be wrapping up the show

(01:19:34):
on the next segment. Roman Travis is going to be
with you from one am through to five. And if
you are wondering if I'm going to make it to
the end of the show before my voice completely goes,
good news is I reckon. I've got about another good
ten to fifteen minutes in me. So there you go.
We're all going to finish this week's work here in
the Nutters Club together. We're going to finish strong back

(01:19:56):
after the break.

Speaker 9 (01:19:57):
their on newstalk.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):
Z'd be texts to here, it says, evening guys, since
paid working for a worldwide chair, my mental health has suffered.
My doctors had to write me off work more than
once as they bully staff. So you know, we've talked
a little bit about volunteering and charity work tonight. But again,
you know, not all not all workplaces are created equal.

Speaker 5 (01:20:22):
Well, I mean, all workplaces are made up of people,
So charity or you know, share brokers doesn't matter. It's
the people then the way that they behave that is
what you know, can make a workplace wonderful and can
make a workplace problematic.

Speaker 3 (01:20:38):
And he's also texted in just to kind of like
give us a little bit of a basic reminder and
thank you Anddiots absolutely bang on. He just says diet
and exercise are crucial for stress and mental health assists
with giving a different perspective as you have one on
one time to better evaluate the situations when they arrive.

Speaker 5 (01:20:57):
Yep. And let me add to that, avoid the booze
during the week, especially if you're stressed about work. It
can feel like an easy thing to do, but actually
it tends to make things worse.

Speaker 9 (01:21:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
Yeah, during the week, and you know it can like
it's seriously and I get it. Yeah, you want to
come home after a stressful day, I just just a
couple of quiet yeah. No, you can go for a walk, honestly, Yeah,
exercise sometimes it feels like the last thing you want
to do, by the way, But all the other thing too,

(01:21:27):
is you know, I find a lot of I find
a lot of joy and actually cooking my meals.

Speaker 5 (01:21:35):
Oh look, I totally agree, I think. Well again, And
here's another good basic one. If you work in an
office fluro tubes, air conditioning windows that don't open, and
you actually do get a lunch break, which none everybody does,
go outside for ten minutes. Yeah, even it's just a
quick walk around the block or even just across the road,
a little bit of fresh air and a bit of sunlight.

(01:21:56):
World of difference.

Speaker 3 (01:21:57):
Let's go back to the lines. Josh, good mornings here.

Speaker 4 (01:22:01):
Yeah, hey guys, Yeah, good yarns. It makes me think
a lot about stress and different personalities and things. But
I'm also thinking, you know, recruitment, whether psycho analysis should
be used when you're trying to build like effective teams

(01:22:22):
of people.

Speaker 5 (01:22:25):
Like a really good point, you know, because.

Speaker 4 (01:22:29):
It's funny because sometimes you're smooth sailing, things are going well,
and then things change. So like you say, you might
not always get to choose who you work with, but
you may even get new management or you may even
get new HR people.

Speaker 8 (01:22:49):
So it's like.

Speaker 4 (01:22:51):
It's it's difficult to.

Speaker 6 (01:22:54):
Sort of.

Speaker 4 (01:22:58):
How would you say, if you get the recipe wrong,
it's a recipe for.

Speaker 5 (01:23:05):
Disaster, absolutely, I guess. Yeah. And actually there's an entire
field of psychology organization or in management psychology where they
do exactly what you're describing. Actually, I mean a lot
of HR people come from a psychology background trying to work.
And there's a lot of particularly and sort of slightly

(01:23:25):
more I guess aware or people focused big corporations where
they actually will have those kinds of consultants come in
and help deal with change management and all those kinds
of things. So there are actually people who do that work.
It's quite different to what I do, but it is
working with people and helping them basically, you know, in
simple terms, just kind of get along.

Speaker 4 (01:23:47):
Really yeah, we'll just I don't know, I guess, and
in some regards, you know, there is you know they
coin that how did they describe it? Did they describe
it as toxic work culture? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
Toxically?

Speaker 4 (01:24:09):
Like yeah, what is the broad definition? Right? And then
you think how much of that goes on even though
like places might even be acating for I don't know
all sorts of answers, right, but.

Speaker 7 (01:24:32):
I guess.

Speaker 4 (01:24:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's there's all sorts of bullowing
happening in different directions, almost like people sort of grinding people.

Speaker 5 (01:24:46):
And yeah, I think the thing about a toxic workplace culture,
it's quite hard to find, but you know it if
you're in one.

Speaker 3 (01:24:54):
Yeah, No, that's that's a really really good point. I
mean I think the other thing too, is that sometimes
it's just about learning, learning also to how you work
with slightly different personalities. Yeah, you know, I know that
I had had one time where I was I was
working in a reasonably what I didn't think was a
stressful workplace. I thought it was all pretty straightforward, and

(01:25:16):
then I ended up getting told by a manager that
that one of the people that I worked with really
closely that they were losing sleep over so worried about
some projects. We were working on and I and you
know that this poor person was waking up in the
middle of the night and a cold swing. I had
no idea.

Speaker 4 (01:25:35):
I just sort of said, really, the thing, this is
the thing too, is like some people handle certain stress
better than others. And you know, some of us it
makes diamonds, you know, in different position, for sure, but
some of it it's like mush. It's like and and unfortunately,

(01:25:57):
you know, sometimes I'll see it happening before it happens,
like a slow moving train wreck, and I'm like, this
isn't good, and I'm like, I feel bad that I can't,
like I'm not in control of that, like somebody made
that decision. And then it's like, you know, that person's

(01:26:20):
no good in that, you know, doing that particular thing
or whatever, and they're just not coping, you know. And
the other thing too, is when these people show too
much vulnerability. Oh man, it's like you're on the out.
You know that they let their guard down and it's

(01:26:43):
like they asked for out, but then they still you know,
got pushed out the door. And I'm like they were good.
They just went good in every position you just needed.
Like it was I felt like it was HR that
needed to be more broad with how they you know,

(01:27:05):
like I say, bring people on board or how they
build a group. Because and the turnover I tell you,
turnover of staff kills cooperative teams. It's just a frequent
change makes things hard for everybody. The stress just goes up,

(01:27:30):
doesn't it when you're when you're having like could you
could you imagine not even being a manager or HR
by having to induct or bring people through elementary training
and then you find out, oh, you find out the

(01:27:52):
reason why you're training new people is they're getting funded
to that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
Yeah, and it goes round around. Josh, thank you so much,
you call mate. We've got to wrap things up there,
but appreciate the inside and the experience.

Speaker 10 (01:28:07):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:28:07):
Oh well that's us for another week. Thank you so
much to all our calls, all our texts. Thanks very
much to you Cale McDonald for being here, as well
as thanks to Boris and Bevern, our producers tonight. Also too,
Thank you to New Zealand on Air for paying the bills,
zid B for letting us in the door. But most

(01:28:28):
of all, thanks for you for listening, for thinking, for contributing.
Couldn't do it without you good newsus. We'll be back
here next week. By then, my voice will hopefully be
fully killed and I won't sound as though I'm about
to croak it. But for now, I'll leave you with
the dulcet tones of Roman Travers coming up. Remember, be
kind to each other, kind to yourself. Look forward to

(01:28:49):
your company next time you're on the Nutters Club.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
air on News Talks EDB. For more from News Talks EDB,
listen live on air or online, and keep our shows
with you wherever you go with our podcast US on
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