From addiction to academics: A life found through recovery

Dave Burnside, a former addict and ex-offender, has transformed his life from one of crime and addiction to becoming a highly effective advocate for recovery and community support. Dave shared his journey, beginning with a troubled childhood marked by neglect, substance abuse, and crime, and after entering recovery experiencing  in a string of academic and professional successes.

Born in 1959, Dave grew up in Auckland, in a household plagued by dysfunction. With a father who was a functioning alcoholic and a mother struggling to raise three children, Dave began drinking at the age of eight and was exposed to drugs and crime through his older brother’s association with motorcycle gangs. ​By his teenage years, he was entrenched in a life of substance abuse and criminal activity, leading to convictions and time spent in boys’ homes, borstal institutions, and adult prisons. ​

Dave described the impact of incarceration on his identity, noting how he adopted a tough persona to survive. ​However, his life took a pivotal turn during a drug treatment program at Springhill Prison, where he encountered a mentor who inspired him to embrace recovery. “He lit the spark of hope,” Dave said, recalling how the mentor’s transformation motivated him to change his own life. ​

Since his release, Dave has dedicated himself to helping others navigate addiction and recovery. ​He is now the lived experience lead at Odyssey House, an organisation specialising in addiction rehabilitation, and works with various groups, including the Salvation Army and New Zealand Corrections. He also lectures on addiction and recovery, drawing on his personal experiences to educate and inspire.

Dave emphasised the importance of community and connection in recovery, advocating for activities and support networks that foster belonging and purpose. ​He highlighted the role of peer support, recovery groups, and alternative activities like motocross and paintball as transformative tools for those battling addiction.

Listeners praised Daves candidness and resilience, with many sharing their own struggles with addiction. One caller, Alex, expressed his ongoing battle with alcohol, while another, Peter, recounted his relapse after decades of sobriety. ​Dave encouraged them to keep trying, emphasising that recovery is a continuous process. ​

Daves story is a testament to the power of hope, connection, and redemption. ​As he continues to work with marginalised communities, he remains committed to helping others find their path to recovery and reclaim their lives. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a podcast from news Talk said B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Greetings and welcome. I'm Hamish Williams and you're listening to
the podcast version of The Nutters Club, a radio show
about mental health that's broadcast on news Talk said B.
Each week, we host conversations on the topic and share
helpful tips about how to live with your own mental health.
The show is broadcast live on Sunday nights on news

(00:40):
Talk said B right across New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
And around the world.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
This week we were joined by Dave Burnside. Dave shared
his journey through addiction that began with a troubled childhood
marked by neglect, substance abuse and crime, and after eging
recovery in his fifties, he's gone on to experience and
achieve a string of academic and professional successes. Let us
know what you think, as well as what you learn

(01:06):
from our chat on any of our social media your platforms.
Just search for the Nassis Club.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
In z.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
So look, they tell us a little bit about yourself.
Where were you born, where'd you grow up?

Speaker 3 (01:17):
So I'm going to do my Peppi habush you know Cotti,
nor Norway, No go Tip Pakia if I had my
Puka Koi and Nadi Tip tomorrow and only Ta Tokyo anyway.
So born in Puka Koi grew up around Aukland central
here and I'm a park here and I went to

(01:40):
school local, mostly on the north Shore and the old days.
In fact, I was born near the Bridge Open nineteen
fifty nine and went to primary school, intermediate and college
over there and pretty much lived here most of my
life until life was interrupted by various periods away.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
So tell us about that. What interrupted a normal school life?
When I say, I sort of mean like, you know,
you live at home, You get up, Mom puts a
sandwich in your bag, and you toddle off to school
for the day. What interrupted that for you? Dave?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, I suppose, And I think a lot of people
will understand us and relate to this of life not
being too normal. So there wasn't a lot of abuse.
It was more about neglect father functioning, alcoholic, mother struggling
to hold things together three kids, which isn't many compared

(02:37):
to some, but largely left her own devices. You know,
no male role models. We were up to a fair
bit of mischief and started drinking at about eight or
nine years old. Her parents alcohol, you know, which was
pretty normal, and we're talking the sixties, so drugs, yeah,

(02:58):
it was the done thing. My brother was about four
years older and he was involved with the local motorcycle
gang and they were our heroes, so they became our models.
So basically we just were able to get up to mischief,
you know, alcohol, drugs, crime. Didn't take any interest at school.

(03:20):
All my school reports said I was really clever but
needed to apply myself. I didn't and life was pretty chaotic, so.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
You're getting yourself into a bit of trouble here in
the end. Did it end up catching up with you?
Did anyone even catches getting up to no good?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah often and no real consequences until
about fourteen fifteen years old. I think my first conviction
was for a relatively minor cannabis matter, and I spoke
this week at Parliament with the launch of the Safer
Drug Law Policy about this being charged for a cannabis

(04:01):
offense and convicted for something that if we'd known, we
would have got a lawyer and would have never happened.
But no, and I pretty much feel like I got
railroaded by the system along with a whole lot of
other people, and that brought a sense of sort of
notoriety was quite a big deal back in nineteen seventy

(04:22):
five drug conviction, and I really went with that, you know,
I became that I was told I was bad, and
I was like, yeah, all right, I'll show you're bad.
And I got better and that sort of led to boys' homes, borstal,
adult prisons, and I spent most of my teenage years
in prisons and institutions.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
What was the experience like that for at a young age?
You know, when you kind of go from you know,
running around the north Shore, getting yourself into a bit
of trouble here and there, but then all of a sudden,
you know you're now in a different environment. I mean
the first thing that comes to my mind as a kid.
Did you find it scary?

Speaker 3 (05:00):
It was scary, although you had to try to carry
this this cloak of being strong, being tough and just
tough it out, you know, and it sort of changed
your persona I suppose I think it did it. Really
I wasn't me anymore. I don't think I ever knew
who I.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Was, so who were you when you were in the boss?

Speaker 3 (05:22):
To us, you learn to put the mask on which
master do I wear today? What do you want to
hear today? What gets my needs met? Today? You become
the bullshit artist and you aim to be a better
criminal to meet your needs and where you are on
the outside, yeah, constantly drugs and alcohol and you need

(05:44):
money for that. So become and better than this criminal
way of being. It's funny, Amus, I look back on
it now and I go, what the hell was that
all about. It's just we just grew up into it.
It became it was, and we went with it and
before I knew it. And I often use this term,
you know, like when I think back to those those

(06:06):
early formative years, those teen years, boys, homes, borstal, prisons, gangs, crime,
drugs and alcohol. You know, we were Maori, we were Parkier,
we were Pacifica, we were others. But we're all lost.
We were ghosts. We didn't fit, we didn't belong anymore,

(06:28):
but we were lost together. So that became our family.
That gang environment, not necessarily the specific gang, although I
was involved with certain gangs, but just as a marginalized
group in society. Some would say the one percent or whatever. Yeah,
and we sort of we went with that, and it

(06:49):
built that resistance to authority, to society and we didn't care.
Actually we probably did care, but we weren't allowed to
say that I don't care. There was the cool thing
to say. And yeah, it was another world.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
When you're a young person and that becomes your reality,
it can be so hard to potentially see anything else.
Did you ever think about it those age, at that
age that you know, when you're sort of in your twenties,
that you might want to do anything else other than
what you were doing.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Absolutely, And in a way, and I hate saying the samush,
but that prison sort of worked for me. I had
a big stick. So three and a half years of
my teenage years in jails and institutions. And when I
got there, first of all, like white career, Borstal, I'd
never worked. I didn't know what work was. I didn't
even know about basic self care other than you know,

(07:42):
like how to brush my teeth or you know, but
just the basics that some people grew up with that
they would get guidance from their parents and the people
around them. And I learned that stuff in jail because
you worked and it was like, this is what it
is to get up in the morning and go to
work and do things and accomplish things. And so I
basically learned that basic skill. So when I got out,

(08:05):
in fact, usually I wouldn't last long. Around twenty years old,
I'd been in prisons and working, and I got a
job laboring, and we still drank and used drugs, but
I had a job, you know, and i'd have a
place to live. We lived on the streets for a
long time. You know, we're just homeless basically, and it's

(08:26):
got those basic functioning elements in place, and it's funny,
but I often again begged the system, you know, I
think I think I was about twenty, had a job,
had a place, and they had an undercover police officer
in the place, and that's what they used to do.
Put them into the scene, buy drugs off people, collect information,

(08:51):
and about every six months bust them all. And I
sold him a twenty dollar blocker hash you know. So
he said, I didn't know the guy, but he was
with someone, and he said, oh, can you get anything.
I was like, oh yeah, so and so you know,
went and said, here you go twenty bucks. Nine months
in jail lost, the time, job lost, the flat lost,
everything back to scratch.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
You know.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Some some might say, you know, you broke the law,
you know, but really twenty dollars block a hash and
yet the impact on my life as a young person
struggling to come out of that and starting to get
the basics of functioning back. What the hell it's disproportion
to day it is now. The harms are prohibition, you know,

(09:33):
And that's what we spoke about at Parliament this sweet Now,
the harms of prohibition often outweigh the crime itself. Twenty
dollar block a hash Class B nine months. He wanted
to give me eighteen. But yeah, so once again you've
got to get out, start again. And we do that
to people today.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
So when you had to start again, when you came out,
I mean, did you just call back up and get
your laboring job back.

Speaker 5 (09:58):
No?

Speaker 3 (09:58):
No, no, you just have to start again, you know.
And you come out, you're on a benefit and usually
you're up to a bit of mischief. But I wanted
to work, you know, I'd enjoyed it. I had little
it planted a little seed about being part of something,
even in a slightly dysfunctional way. But it's really tough.
So I had to fight for that. And anyway, I

(10:21):
think I often say that around that time, early twenties,
i'd learned what people would say, how not to get caught,
you know, don't be so stupid, you know, get a
job so you find you're doing less crime. And I
found a level of functioning. I think in that sort
of early twenties period, got a key relationship, which was

(10:46):
a key factor we often talk about when we talk
look at dessistance from offending and recovery. Maturation is a
key factor, as is a key relationship. So I got
a girlfriend, you know, she had a job, and you know,
and we did it right, and we actually started to
over the years have the elements of a normal life.

(11:08):
Still using drugs, still getting up to a bit of mischief,
but not the big stuff anymore, not the bigger sort
of criminal stuff or damaging stuff, and still quite antisocial,
but heading towards something anyway. And then I did that
for about twenty years, you know, and actually had some

(11:28):
good jobs and did some work and played sport, got
into God's game, Rugby League up the Wars, and I
was always into sport, and that was a big factor too,
but we never cracked the top sides. You know, we
were there. We were those guys in the senior B
team out in the backs making open drinking booze and stuff,

(11:48):
you know, but we were doing a lot of damage
to the community anymore, you know. So there was a change.
There was a shift that came with getting older, getting wiser,
and also learning some of those skills of how to
function in society that we'd never been supported was shown.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
So after twenty years of that, you then had something
else happen in your life.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, yeah, what's a funny thing. So I was a
bit of a machine. I worked in concrete, often for myself.
Sometimes I had people work for me, hard heavy work.
I played rugby league hard heavy sport, and I drank
hard and I used drugs. So everything was hard and physical.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Even even you know, like the visuals of that, the concrete,
you know, it's like, yeah, this is your life was
was concrete, you know.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, No, you had you had to be strong, you
had to work hard, but if you did, you made
good buddy. And but I had a bit of a problem.
And I actually smashed my leg to bits on a motorbike.
Young men do that you know, they get drunk and
they have these motorbike accidents and if they live through it,
they have they've got some lasting issue. Mine was a
broken leg and it hindered my rugby league. But it

(12:59):
hindered my work, but I managed to keep it carry on.
But I did this job with a big jack hammer
on the on the North Shore for a couple of weeks,
big jackcammers smashing up concrete, and it did something to
my arms. My arms went numb and I sort of
struggled to walk fast. If I walked too fast, I
fell over and it had actually done some nerve damage.

(13:21):
Go to the doctor. The doctor tries to tell me, says,
it's developmental. It's in your family. Your bones are breaking down.
Pick your wheelchair, you bug it. And I was like no, no,
big jackammer. Anyway, you'll notice I'm not in a wheelchair.
But anyway, health problem that led to financial problems that
led to a relationship issue. My long term relationship broke

(13:44):
down and I spiraled out of control again. I needed money.
It's like right back to drug dealing and got involved
in messa amphetamine and got involved in some pretty serious
stuff involving importation, manufacture, supply got busted six and a
half years back to jail, and of course when I

(14:04):
got there, there's the same old faces. Oh Dave, you're back.
And just slotted into that world and kept using methamfeato
me in the prison, you know, and and drug cannabis
you know, and yeah, and I really thought I had
it going on amish, you know, I really did. I

(14:25):
thought I was delusional. I thought it was all part
of my cutting plan. I'll get out on my first parole.
And I went to my first parole board and they
said to me, someone on the parle board said to me,
you need to learn to become to be challenged by
your peers. You need to learn, you need to be
learned to become vulnerable. You're arrogant, you've got a drug problem.
I was like, no, I haven't. What does that even mean?

(14:47):
And they said to see you next year.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
So, Dave, you came back to the parole board the
next year. Had had miraculously you sorted everything in that time.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
I know.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
What I did was like, I remember, I'm the master criminal,
so we all think we are. And so I got
what we call a knock twelve months knock. So I
did the private site trick. This is what se the
private site. These guys and jail Benever, they said, pay
us private site to come in cost you three grand,
Mum three grand, So we paid this private site to

(15:17):
come in. You lie to them. They write your lies
out right, this big report out. Oh he's all good.
Now he's gonna he's got sus he's aware of all
that stuff. You go back to the proboard. The problem,
look goes see see you next year. They've seen it before.
So they ordered a prison Sich report. So cool, prison Sich.
So you lie to them. They write a report that

(15:38):
says he's lying. You know, it's stupid when I look
back on it, but that's what you do. So we're
talking about two three years have gone by. I've just
wasted two or three years. If I just said, yeap,
I'll take the help, you know. And in the end
I said, okay, I'll do your stupid drug treatment program.
I'm not an adicxt, but and I was. And they

(16:01):
sent me down a spring Hill prison and to the
drug treatment program, and something really big happened, you know.
So I get down there, I'm the bullshit artist. I'm
going down I'm just gonna fly under the radar, smile
and nod and get through it. Get the tip for
the proboard, get out. Sounds like a plan, yeah, just

(16:21):
I try not to use so much, don't get caught,
you know, a good plan. And I was unpacking my
cell and a guy came to the door. And he
was a mentor in the program. He just finished the program.
He was there to mentor people like myself coming through.
And I knew him really well. I would call him
peer support, and I knew him really well all those
teenage years in jail. He'd always been there. I was

(16:43):
surprised he was alive, you know he was Yeah, yeah,
I really was surprised. But not only was he alive,
he looked really healthy. It wasn't so much it was
I kept thinking his aha, the way he held himself.
He had this sense of peace about him. I couldn't
tell you what he said, Hamish, you know, things like oh, Dave,
good to see you. This program is really good. Da

(17:04):
da da. I just looked at him. I jaw on
the ground, like, man, I don't know what that is.
You've got what I want it. And I shifted and
I thought, I'm going to give this a go, and
My life changed in that moment, and he lit the
spark of hope and I saw in him that didn't

(17:24):
even know what recovery was, but there was an option
and it might be really good for me. So I
engaged in that program. And I got involved through that
program at spring Hall with twelve Step Narcotics Anonymous, with
the recovery groups and other people who inspired me, people
who I related to, who had been where I'd been,

(17:47):
and went back to Parry Prison for the prole board,
got out within six months and just immersed myself in
that whole recovery world and their life changed. It was
very different. Every other time I go to jail, it
would be into it, alcohol, drugs, let me add it,
and this time, you know, so I tracked my recordovery

(18:08):
back to back then seventeen years ago, seventeen and a
half years.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Talk to me about that change piece. What what were
I mean? Look, apart from I stopped taking drugs and alcohol?
What else? And you changed?

Speaker 6 (18:21):
Though?

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Like it was it how you saw yourself? How is
it how you spoke to yourself? What were some of
the things that were different?

Speaker 3 (18:27):
Well, I think part of it was being in a
drug treatment program where you're actually getting a bit of
clinical intervention going on, and they're talking about what addiction is.
So you're getting this information and you've got this shift
in yourself, you're open to change, and when it brings
those it's like the perfect storm, you know. So and
then of course being in that unit, you're a captive audience,

(18:50):
so it's not a I don't like locking people up,
but when you are there and you have this shift
in yourself and you have time to reflect and think
and change. Boy, I came out of there like an
energizer bunny, you know. Lem me at this new world
and people and say, how did you disassociate from all

(19:12):
your old associates? Because I came out into the exact
same environment I'd lived in. I didn't have to. What
I did was fill my life with so many positive
influences and things that when I saw my old friends,
it's like, hey, bro, yep, yep, nice to see you,
but I'm busy with all this stuff and love you
from afar. So it's not like I had to go

(19:32):
and tell everyone to go away. I just filled my
life with good, good shit, you know, good stuff, and
there was no room for all the old ways.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Tell me about that good stuff. What does the good
stuff look like?

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Well, A was pretty big for me and I often
talk about it doesn't work for everyone. A lot of
people twelve Step meetings AA and A that just doesn't
work work for me, you know. And I found a
bunch of people I could relate to that we're happy
to help, didn't want anything from me, and we're doing stuff.
So I got involved with a group called Recovery First Trust.

(20:04):
So at that unit in prison, there's a guy came
down and sorry, Simon, if you're listening, I'm saying his
name was Simon rhymes with Simon anonymity. He came down.
He just he was like the guy in the celled wall.
He just came down and shared with us, and I thought,
oh my god. And he runs a trust called Recovery

(20:26):
First and they're very active today here in Auckland, and
they're more people like me, people have been going in
and out of prison and with drugging, alcohol problems. And
so I got out and I hung out with SI
and the Recovery First boys and we do motocross, you know,
off roaded stuff. We do jet skis, we do paintball,

(20:47):
shoot the shed out of each other in a loving way.
You know, we have fun in recovery without drugs and alcohol.
They all work, they've got great families, they're all fired up,
nice happy people and there's a big crowd them and
you just become part of that. And boy, that's a
lot more attractive than what I used to do sitting
around a table with a bunch of people like me,

(21:09):
like I was a no hoper, talking shit and moaning
and taking drugs. You know, So living life being part
of life, it's exciting and that's what we need to
do is excite people find.

Speaker 7 (21:19):
It and find different communities.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, I think that's the key. I do a lot
of work with not a lot of work. I work
with a guy called David Best from the UK Recovery
Capital and Social Models of Recovery, and it's all about
groups and activities are good for you and not just one. Now,
you've got to have a balance in your life. Study,
house and fitness, hobbies, all these things work. Friends, The

(21:44):
more the better.

Speaker 7 (21:45):
All the things that people who live a life that
doesn't evolve going to prison and doesn't involve drugs in
our coholon addiction just happens. It just is their life.
They don't think about it.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, that's right. So I teach that now social identity mapping,
esset based community engagement and talk to people about what
does your what does your life look like? What's missing here?

Speaker 2 (22:05):
You underwent what can only be described as a fundamental
change in the way that you saw the world, how
you interacted with the world, but most importantly, how you
saw yourself. It seems to me that that was the
big challenge and all of a sudden, that's right, Hams,
you went the bad guy. It's a very good point

(22:27):
because when you go back to that old Dave, that
other Dave. While I had probably a tough guy I'm
okay mask on or whatever mask I needed to have on,
inside there was fear, confusion, and on all those things.
So you're living this lie and to be able to

(22:49):
actually learn to love yourself, accept yourself, forget the mask
and the ego. Actually Dave's okay, you know, with his flaws.
Dave's actually all right. And then you start to address
those we talked briefly about before around the stigma and
discrimination your face, but the biggest stigma that you faces

(23:11):
your own. You know, those messages that you have of
I'm not good enough, I don't belong, you start to
say I am good enough, I can do it. I'm
going to give it a go, and that's empowering. You know,
we use a process called chime which drives a lot
of what I do. So chime another aquadym sorry Hamish
stands for connection, hope, identity, meaning, and empowerment, and those

(23:36):
things are generative. A sense of connection to a person,
to an activity, to a group generates hope. And when
you've got hope, you naturally start to think about who
am I? Who am I really the brutal, uncompromising acceptance
of self and who do I want to be?

Speaker 4 (23:55):
Meaning?

Speaker 3 (23:56):
And that's empowering, powerful process.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
I asked it earlier on in our conversation. You know
when you went to the ball stool for the first
time and it wasn't scary, well, and you said it was,
But taking that mask off and actually examining yourself and
all of you know, all of out your failings, their
shortcomings or our insecurities. Was that a scary process for you?

Speaker 4 (24:24):
No?

Speaker 3 (24:24):
No, not, I know what you're saying.

Speaker 6 (24:26):
It was.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Actually, I'll tell you the moment I'm sitting in prison,
this is around that moment of change. Murray Deica. Now
we know Murray Deica is a When I say that name,
a lot of people go.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Who Murray Deka, famous sports sports caster. If you're not more.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
Than that, really, you know, he used to do some
pretty big media stuff. But he was on TV and
he wasn't coming out as an alcoholic. He'd always been
an alcoholic. He was just talking about it, and he
was saying on the TV, you're saying too many people
kid themselves about who they are about their drinking. Particularly,
he said, you need to go and look at look
in the mirror, Go and look in your eyes. When's

(25:00):
the last time you look in your eyes? And I'm like,
i'd ever look in my eyes. So I'm in a
jail cell. You don't have a mirror, and it was nighttime.
There's a window had bars over it, and I'm steering
in the mirror and I'm looking at them out. I'm thinking,
my god, who are you? And one of the screws
goes past her in the night check and he's like,

(25:20):
you're right, Dave, and I'm like, I'm looking in my
eyes and he probably wrote down drug chest what is
not actually right? Actually really intentionally who the hell out
are you? You know, and finding actually you're all right?
And yeah, you see that fear, that confusion, that lack

(25:42):
of knowledge, you see what you need to do, and
it's like, well, I better get on with it. And
that moves to that finding men who do I want
to be? And realizing I can bloody be it.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
Dave.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
You know, when you came in tonight, we sort of said,
how's your week been? And you started listening off to
me a litany of engagements, but for the sake of
the listeners, just so we understand what life is like
for Dave Burnside, currently tell us what you've been up
to this week and some of the things that you've
got on your plate.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Okay, so you know my day job, I sit in
the executive at Odyssey is the Lived Experience lead, So
I'm part of our executive We had a big four
hour meeting this week, business strategic planning, all things Odyssey
fantastic organization. Got to get a shot in there for them,
their people organization do some amazing work. And you know,

(26:34):
you need wild horses to drag me out of there.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Just for listeners.

Speaker 7 (26:37):
Odyssey House is an impatient our kind of drug rehabilitation
program and other things.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, we do a lot of stuff with the youth,
with prisons, with all sorts of other things as well.
But then I had to go to christ Church. We
went to christ Church. I do some work for the
Salvation Army their Lived Experience HU we we have once
a year. Flew down to christ Church. Thursday morning I
went to Parliament. I've been asked to speak to the
release of these safer drug Laws in outre Or New

(27:06):
Zealand launch at Parliament, so I got to go down
there and bring a bit of feedback and I mentioned
some of the things I've talked about here tonight that
fifty years ago the Messiseive Drugs Act came out. Fifty
years ago was my first conviction for a minor cannabis event,
and I became one of the first victims of the
mess Usive Drugs Act. Some really cool people. They're doing

(27:29):
some amazing work. I don't know if it's going to
happen overnight, probably not. And then on Friday I came
back and I ran an all day training peer support training.
I do that all over the country. This week I'm
off to Wellington. I do some work with the New
Zealand Corrections on the Pathways and Services portfolio.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
You do some work with them. You're on their board,
aren't you.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, well they've got several boards, but the Pathways and
Service I call it like the Operations the Dewey board,
you know. Fantastic group, doing amazing work. And the following
week I'm in Christich running Pear support training. Then on
that Friday I'm off to Parliament again to launch the
SPECK for the Global Freedom Scholars which is an amazing

(28:10):
international organization. I lead to New Zealand chapter and we
support higher education for incarcerated and formally incarcerated people.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
And you've gone from concrete to doing a PhD.

Speaker 5 (28:23):
Yep, you know.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
I do a bit of guest lecturing. Been teaching into
aut post grad Auckland UNI postgrad, occasionally into the law faculty.
That's a funny thing. A So with the background I've
described to talk teaching lawyers, but I give them a
different perspective. And I have a master's degree in law
and people say, oh, so you're like a lawyer. No,

(28:44):
but I know the law. I know it from the
other side and that has value. It's like in the
post grad I am a qualified clinician, but I work
in lived experience. That is value for people who have
clinical knowledge to understand that lived experience, and they're going
to be out there in the field working with people.
So I think that's what I do. I bring that value.

(29:07):
I'm often at conferences. I'm usually that different voice and
I'm doing something different and bringing something different. But I
always very passionate about supporting people who are stuck in
that criminal world, that world of crime and addiction. My
Masters was on the role of addiction in criminal persistence

(29:27):
and assistance because that was my journey that the addiction
and better be in it. It doesn't have to be
so yeah, and I think my story can help others
and it does hopefully.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Let's not mess around. We'll go straight to the calls.
Let's go to Alex, Alex, good evening to you.

Speaker 5 (29:46):
Good even guys.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
How are you.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, really good Alex, good to hear you, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (29:50):
Good mate, and good ad everyone out there. That's obviously
I listened to this a lot because yeah, a lot
of going around, a lot of compassion too. Though I
must say we all know I'm going to say this.
I've said my want to say this I've had a

(30:11):
hell of a trot with family and stuff where they
can't understand why a person goes the way they do.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
And I've got to.

Speaker 5 (30:18):
Say this because over time it builds up. The pain
is so much, and it's got to a point even
now with the alcohol addiction. For me at sixty one
years old, and I was young starting fourteen, I thought
I fitted in somewhere, and it's not till recent that

(30:41):
I've understood that actually not good. I have my own business,
I have my own property of mortgage. I'm actually okay, Jack,
but I realize how harmful and how damaging it can be.
But I'm just lost in trying to find how the
hell you find your way through it, because it's not

(31:03):
something that is an uprising of Oh I hate this,
hate dad, or hate this person, none of that at all.
Have great compassion, but it's overtaken. The addiction is overtaken
to the point where it becomes unmanageable, and it's to
a place where you don't even consider that it's because

(31:27):
of something.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
It just is there.

Speaker 5 (31:30):
And so anyone that's suffering that, why, I'd wonder, because
they probably will sitting in the game. Well, actually, yeah,
I don't even know what it was for.

Speaker 6 (31:39):
Why do it?

Speaker 5 (31:40):
Nothing painful comes up and goes Yep, gon't ever bere
because of that.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
It just is there.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, fear enough Alex, and I can hear that. You
know this is coming from you know, obviously your own
experience today. Where are you at in terms of how
things are going with your your own sort of addictions
at this point.

Speaker 5 (32:05):
Well, well, I'm concerned because, as I said, ye at
sixty one, so I've got to be open. I'm just
going to put it out to you. People that know me,
I don't know, but acc gratefully have given me, over
the course of three years, given me a sense of claim.
As a child, I was adopted at birth, had numerous
birth experiences. After that on numerous family experiences like seven

(32:29):
and fourteen years sort of shit, not very nice any
of it. I always felt guilty for it. I thought
it was me or something whatever. Anyway, but I've managed
to battle through, and everyone that knows me goes, man,
You're amazing. But you know what I hurt outside of
it all I hurt. I must be normal. I don't

(32:53):
even know what normal is. It breaks relationships to the
point wherein there's people who can't blame and leave your
relationship and go, oh, what's wrong with this guy? And
I don't know what's wrong with it. So years, I said,
have given me a sense of claim. I go to
counseling for the last I've been there numerous times, and

(33:16):
people will know me to here this will know yeah, okay,
he's done that yet. But I still go every week.
You know, I go to AA, but I'm still going
to pick a bet up. You know why. I don't
even know why, because you know what, I like the
comfort that it seems to bring. It's not all the time,
but when it is, and it's debilitating to the fact

(33:37):
that it's even a lesser amounts now than it used
to be. It's not a morning drink or nothing, but
it's the point where it goes. I don't know why
I do this.

Speaker 7 (33:46):
Well, it sounds like it's actually just really hard to
imagine a life without it. Like you say, it's hard
to even know why you do it anymore, But it's
actually really hard to imagine a life without it.

Speaker 5 (33:55):
It frustrates shit out of me, fair enough. I guess
many out there will feel the same.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Well, I think you know you've articulated to us, you know,
really what the root cause of it is, Alex. And
you know the fact that you're already engaged with a
sec sensitive claims is awesome.

Speaker 5 (34:14):
Yeah, you know, it's not a very help, you know,
but I feel guilty going there and saying, oh, you know,
I go there and over there. But I've got a
great mate there goes. You know what, Nate took me
fifteen years of going there, you know, and all of years.
So but all of these things are acute, and I
think that's what we're missing. I think we're missing the

(34:36):
point here in society is because there's a lot of damage, obviously,
but I hear that all those things are backing back,
drink and all that mental health. But there's still a
little lot of bad mental health out there.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
And you've got Dave. Dave's got only one to say here, you.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
No look like Yeah, I remember feeling like that, bro,
I do I know that feeling. And I think the
answer was I kept going to NA, but the answer
was actually getting involved in stuff. And I just hear
that awareness in there. You know, you know it's not right.
Don't give up on that, Dave.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Look, I've just got so many text messages that have
come in here, but I think this one just sums
it up and it just says, Dave is incredible. I
think that is It's very, very true. So, you know,
I just want to congratulate you on everything that you've achieved,
but most importantly, you know, thank you for being here
and sharing the story tonight. So there's a few questions

(35:37):
that I've got on the text message, if you don't mind.
So I've got a text here from Christy and she
just says, Hi, fellows, would it be rude of me
to ask? What became of your lovely guests? Siblings? Loved
you all? Chrissy?

Speaker 3 (35:49):
Okay, I much there, Chrissy. So yes, my brother was
four years old, and my sister's two years old, and
my brother's he's in great shape. He had some of
the same challenges I had, but maybe being a little
bit eyes older and wiser, didn't sort of get embedded
to the same degree and has been able to build

(36:10):
a wonderful life. He has three lovely children, grandchildren, and
he's great. My sister, two years older, is in good
shape too. She I think we sort of blew my
sister away a bit. My brother and I, and rightly so,
she was disengaged and didn't have a lot to do
with us for a while. But in recent years, particularly

(36:32):
as my mother struggled towards the end of her life,
she came back on board and we've become quite close.
And I really value that. Having only a small family,
both parents gone, you know, I've got one son myself,
so it's not a big family, but I recognize the
importance of family and they're very important to me.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Film texting to say, hi, guys, if a person has
a functioning addiction, what would be the thing that would
warrant a shift in their behavior for change.

Speaker 7 (37:03):
Well, it's one of those things that actually, funnily enough,
often turns up in my office because and I'll tell
you that the stereotypical version of how that shows up
in my office and you can jump into day because
there's probably a few steps down the line by the
time they get to Odyssey. Usually someone's turning up because
they don't think they've got a problem with their drinking,
or they maybe they'll acknowledge they drink a bit too

(37:25):
much at times, but their wife or their son or
their best mate has says, you know what, the fact
that you can't remember last night, or the fact that
you're spending all this money, or the fact that you
yell at me in the mornings because you're in a
bad mood is a problem. You need to go and
sort this out. So it's the consequences, and often it's
the people around them that actually notice the consequences first. So, yes,

(37:48):
there is such a thing as a functioning alcoholic. But
at the very least, if we're drinking it on healthy levels,
we're going to get physical health consequences. But I actually
think those relationships consequences show up first.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
You're so right, Colin. I really view it as a continuum,
so functioning. And of course I went to great length
to not be an addict or an alcoholic, because in
my mind, that was someone who was weak, lying in
the gutter. That's not me. I've got a job, I've
got a family, and I minimized and I constructed it
to suit myself. But it was only when I had

(38:21):
to have that real brutal, uncompromising look and recognize the
damage I was doing. And it's really hard to do.
So that functioning potentially leads to a level of dysfunction
gradually gets worse. And yeah, so somewhere along the line,
we've got to actually have a look at ourself. Like
Murray Deeker said, go and have a look in your eyes.

(38:43):
Whoe am I really?

Speaker 4 (38:44):
You know?

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Hanne's texted and says mean coro. A couple of questions
from a lived experience perspective, how do you help families
stay well while they support their loved one through the
destruction of addiction? And what help is there to help
prepare these relationships?

Speaker 3 (39:03):
Nummh oh, cured to honey tenkwi. Yeah, that's that's a
big one. That's a big one. So it's not just
about the addict, the alcohol alcoholic, the offender, the family suffers.
So there's an increasing focus on this, and we see
in legislation and policy the par no voice increasingly and

(39:24):
yet there's still not enough happening in that space. And
there are groups alan on smart Recovery, Shine other whether
it's to do with some anger management whatever, but not enough.
And I think this is where the community comes in.
The community has the art, The community knows the problems,
and the community knows the solutions, and we've really got

(39:46):
to build community involvement and particularly at the moment, we're
in the middle of a crisis when we're not talking
about it enough. We've got a messamfetaman crisis coming cocaine.
The figures are staggering, the increase, and when you look
at that through I look at it through a recovery
capital leads. We've got all these new users of these

(40:08):
drugs and from a personal recovery capital, they're using up
their money, their resources, they're having fun. The next part
is the social recovery. That's when they start ripping off
their family, ripping off Nana, stealing things. And then you
get to the community capital, and that's when you can't
park your car on the street. So it's the faro

(40:31):
is part of the community. It's the heart of the
community on the and I think that's what we need
to do. We really need to come together as communities.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
In speaking of communities, we had a couple of texts
in here for Alex, who was the call that we
had just before New Sport and weather and it just
says Alex is amazing talking through his pain. And then
another text says, I feel for you one day at
a time, Alex. It's not your fault. Trauma is behind
a lot of addictions, all the best, So I appreciate
you guys out there for that.

Speaker 7 (41:00):
Yeah, and I just wanted to add to what because
we had to go to New Sport and weather and
I think, you know, I often say to people, it's
a ward old road. You know, it can be easy
to listen to wonderful stories like days tonight or other
people that we've had on the show and think one
day people just wake up and they stop using drugs
and alcohol and their lives get better. But it's almost

(41:20):
in fact, I would say, it's never like that that.
Actually it takes time. And you know, we talk about
this idea of relapse being ongoing for a lot of people,
but actually I think that's just it takes some time
to learn new behaviors. You've got to build the sober
life alongside the using life to actually get yourself back
on track.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
You've got to get the focus off yourself. And I
mean someone you read out a comment there before Hammers,
someone saying I was incredible. You know, there's a whole
lot of people like me, and there's a whole lot
of people who supported me to do what I do. Today,
there's a growing movement of the recognition of the value
of lift experience. So there's a whole there's a whole
lot of us. Man, we're coming and they are doing

(42:00):
some amazing work. I could sit here and name people
and organizations who are doing some amazing work. I'm just
one of them.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Well, look, I think it's really important that we continue
to actually give a platform and exposure and share these
stories because sometimes when we're in isolation, and especially addiction
can make us feel very isolated. We don't believe that
there is hope. You know, we give up and we
think that they can't be impossible for change. And yet,
you know, Dave, you and all of these others that

(42:27):
you speak of living proof that you can. And one
text here just says, I've been cleaned from all drugs
and alcohol for twenty six years now. The day I
found out I was pregnant, I went cold Turkey. I
was a heavy drug user. So you know, you find
your why, you just go at it. Neville, good morning

(42:48):
to you.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
Just talking today. I'm one or the others in that
I'm a likely Tecki. I listened from the start when
Dave talked about his journey and my journey very very
similar to the same thing like seventeen ten said that

(43:11):
eight in the bost twenty one mountain and then the
camps and all that kind of stuff. And I'm one
of the longer term people around AA, you know, And
I have a passion. I'm involved with a salvage army
at the Bridge, and I have a an that's a

(43:35):
passion for recovering people all those because I have a
lot to do with people, you know, doing the Bridge
program and and a lot of people from Drag Court
and all that, and I just sort of I like
to mo the you of bringing up us to see
my journey is because just hope I can give hope

(44:00):
to one other person.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
You know, I live awesome.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
Brother.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
Now when you say the borstalls, the camps and all
that stuff, you know, you know what it's about, bro,
And and it's just so good to hear I can
hear that sense of peace and that acceptance and that
excitement as well in your voice. I'm part of the
Drug Court too. We probably know each other.

Speaker 4 (44:24):
And yeah, very probably.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Yeah, And it's exciting, isn't it to watch that process,
to watch people change, to see them get opportunities that
we never had, and back then there was nothing like
that for us, was there? And yet we found we
found something good on you and and this, this is
the answer. There's actually people like you, people like me
and others working together in the community and doing giving

(44:49):
back and doing what we can.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
Yeah. Yeah, well I suppose that's the thing. Everything you said,
I can say one hundred said. You know, like, it's
the belonging. It's the sense of no judgment, no criticism,
and you belong to something and you can like I'm
unfortunately I got wrong to marriage and I got four

(45:15):
kids and grandkids and great cankers. So I've enjoyed secrets.
I've been sober long time, and I've enjoyed that kind
of life for quite a while. But going back on
my journey, I first went to a when I was
twenty one. You know, I got so very similar to

(45:37):
your story. Really, I got sober when I was thirty eight,
So there was seventeen years in between, which took me
down all the treatment centers, Halfway House, everywhere, wat every
treatment center in museum I'm under a couple of times,
and all those places, and until well, as you know,

(45:58):
I come to the point I got sick and tired
of in sickond.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
Time another feeling.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
Yeah, and it's it's like You've got your platform at
obviously V and I've got my little platform at the
Sellist and I'm able to share on a regular basis
and just speak hoping to those people's life. And I say,
you know, I say to them, well, the old blokes

(46:28):
performed me in the AA. I saw them. My teachers
were the old blocks and AA that were thirty fifty
years sober, and they were my teachers and they set
the platform for me. I'll followed that, June. I'm in
that category now, and being sober doesn't make any better

(46:52):
than you or anybody else. I'm just another regular AA
person that found the way, you know, and you can
I can share that on a regular basis. And it's
so easy to talk to people because we're one people
going in one direction.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
If that's wonderful, Mike, don't stop keep doing that.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Yeah, well, lover, it's the total basis of my life today.
You know. I don't go rushing off the meetings all
the time, but I'm still there's a meeting I go
to in Auckland. Then I'm the secretary and I look out,
you know, and I've got a real passion for a
new people and being part of that is a belonging.

(47:42):
And you know, like all my life was, you know,
I come from the alcoholic family and the boothing family,
and you know I was homeless at seventeen, and you know,
all all the stuff you try to suit your father
and all the risk carry on the absolute nut case
through my life. And today I can say I won't

(48:07):
use the the term and I'm an ordinary person, you know,
and conduct myself in a reasonable manner. And I still
have the ups and downs and the engine out of
have your families and all this kind of thing, but
you you're an an ordinary person in society. Yeah. And

(48:32):
also the big thing in my life, I've got the
God factor in my life. It's sort of that's my
big basis. So I can let go and let God
and things are too tough for me. God can him
and I can't. So that's my higher power. If you want,
if we were want to talk the way.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Well you say, you know, you say you're a you
know you're an ordinary person. Well perhaps never, but you
are doing extraordinarily well in your own life and for
showing others in what's possible Nevill, Thank you so much
for the call. Got another couple of techs here. I'll
just read these before we go to the next ad.
Break just says here with tobacco, I found using the

(49:15):
words taking a break worked, We're giving up was just
full of panic attacks and mind games. I weaned myself
off to one day at seven pm so on the
last night, and I had almost a whole day and
I'm in my ninth year now of just taking a break.
Cheers Bob. You're saying one day at a time, there day. Yeah,

(49:39):
that's how you start, right, and then just let the
rest follow on from there. Look, I've got a text
here from Sally Dave, and I think it's a really
important question, so i'll read it. It just says, hi, guys,
I have a huge question. It's quite bold when you
put it like that, doesn't it a huge promising a lot.
She's got a huge question. In all those years of

(50:00):
drugs and addiction, a lot of people were the victims
of the crimes you committed. What have you done to
right those wrongs. I'm currently one of those victims, and
I'm hurting like hell broken and I'm so angry as
there's been no help from the law where it should
have been. So hearing all of that, I really appreciate,

(50:21):
appreciate hearing your side of this perspective, thinks.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
So that is a huge question, Cell, and I suppose
it's not a simple thing. A lot of the people
I've done some horrendous damage in my community by selling drugs,
by committing various crimes, and there were victims of those
crimes that I will never know. So the first thing
I can do is to stop using drugs, stop offending,

(50:49):
be part of my community. I'm sort of driven by
redemption and giving back, so I do a lot of
service work, and that's indirect amends that doesn't help someone
individually like you, But that's all I really can do.
I'm a big fan of restorative justice.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
I really.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Supportive of victims getting a chance to talk to their
offender if they're comfortable with that, and I think that
can be really helpful. But I often when I teach
pair support, particularly, I always say to people, we're different,
we have different values. I do this values exercise with people,

(51:30):
and what are your values? You know, the values I
get from addicts and recovery and alcoholics and ex offenders,
the values they have are faith, hope, gratitude, redemption, authenticity.
I don't get those values when I do non lived
experienced people, and the attitudes that come out of those

(51:52):
values are passion and enthusiasm. We really want to give
back and yeah, so I don't know what there is
to help you sell, but it's a very big part
of who we are as to give back, to find
redemption and be part of the solution every day.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Kyle, In terms of how we can address the mistakes
that we make in life and the impact it has
on others, what are some of the key things that
we can think about in terms of how we address
that for ourselves, but also how we can try and
interact with other people and that we may have wronged
through our actions.

Speaker 7 (52:34):
Well, I mean, you know, the twelve Steps talk about
making amends, right, and I think one of the tricky
things often around that is that the sometimes you can
want to make amends with the specific people in ways
it can actually be harmful. So, you know you talked
about restorative justice. I mean, both parties have to be
willing to engage in that process, right. But I mean

(52:55):
I really like what you're saying, Dave, because I think
what we can take responsibility for is what we do next.
And so I think, you know, it is important if
we've done wrong to try and rectify that specifically. But
then I think you also have a responsibility just to
be a better person, frankly, and I think we all
have that responsibility in life right to try and wake

(53:16):
up and be a better person than we were yesterday.
And I guess in particular, if you're feeling, you know
that you have been on the receiving end of crime
or harmful behaviors, it's really important that you have an
opportunity if you can't talk to the person who's done that,
that you have an opportunity to talk that through with
a supportive person yourself. Because actually, ultimately, again we have

(53:37):
to come to terms of what we can take responsibility.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
For, Yeah, and acknowledge the impact that we have.

Speaker 7 (53:42):
On absolutely, yeah, because.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
It goes both ways too, you know, like I often think,
you know, we can acknowledge, you know, for the wrongs
that we do to others, but also too, you know,
you can acknowledge when you get it right as well.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
Yes, yeah, And I suppose just a quick comment hamer
se on when we saw the inquiry into the into
abuse and state and faith based care. It was the
system that was actually causing the harm to a lot
of people, and it happens in multiple ways. And yeah,
so it's very very multifest.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
And just to say, you know, Sally, for the way
that you're feeling completely justified and so I really really
thank you, you know, for seending us that message tonight,
and I hope that's gone some way to answering your
question and all the best for what you're going through. Okay,
we are going to go back to the lines. Let's
go to Kate. Kate, good morning to you.

Speaker 8 (54:38):
Oh yeah, Hi, just twe that's on the program tonight.
Just congratulations for just walk your journey and just getting
to where you are on a board on a just
a voice for the community for humanity. Really, I'm I'm

(55:00):
following the journey where I wasn't in the same path
where as you. So my addiction was to be silent
while I was being born for asking for help and
I didn't have an addictive nature that I realized. My
addiction was to be silent and hide and just be bullied.

(55:20):
And my journey when I was being bullied, I was
thrown into places where it was not I was not
supposed to be, so I was around people with addictions
that they were saying, you should be not here. Why
did Woman's Refuge jump dump you here? Why did you
missd dump you here? Why have you become a victim

(55:43):
of victim support? Why you're a victim of shine? And
it just went on, and then all of a sudden,
I just went enough is enough? Enough is enough. I'm
going to get a safe address. I'm going to I
want to All I asked for was my private rental,
first off, safe address, and I want to go back

(56:07):
to work that I am a victim of two crimes,
like I'm a survivor of two crimes, and when I'm
asked for help, it's been a shocking journey. Even right
in front of police detectives, it was a disgrace and
their behavior on my name. So even today, I'm so
proud of myself because eventually where I'm sorry, I can't

(56:29):
remember your name is Ian the gentleman.

Speaker 9 (56:34):
So great.

Speaker 8 (56:35):
It's just I just want to say, because I want
to be a voice for the community as well around
adult bolloings, But can I just stay in front of
addictions with addiction. A few have an addiction. I do
believe that there needs to be a little bit of
community change where if you go into what is it

(57:00):
detox first and then rehab. And I've looked after a
gentleman who was a ex heroin at it as well,
and he was in and out of prison as well
as his mate for Denis Heroines went into premrimos. But
the other subject where I've seen somebody that went into detox,

(57:22):
I do believe that this person should not have been
out of detoxics. This person should have gone straight to rehab,
but they were out within two weeks of detox where
they had a lifetime of alcohol addiction. And this person
is such a good person and is suffering right now

(57:43):
as we speech, and the journey needed a sense of claim.
If this person had been in front of the right hands,
I would have preferred to have seen if you go
into because I didn't know what this was like. You know,

(58:06):
detox and all of that we have, but detops then
we have together should be a serious subject that the
department shouldn't allow somebody to be out that has to
have a history of serious alcoholism. Is that is that how.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
There's some very complex needs out there, Kate, and I
want to affirm you for first of all, for what
you're doing, for recognizing who you are and how you
can be part of the solution. And I'm always saying
that that we get better outcomes if we all work together,
people like me, people like you, people like all our
services and agencies, when we all have a voice at

(58:47):
the table. Because there's some really complex stuff going on,
and the person you're describing sounds like that. And when
it comes to the detox situation, yeah, sometimes it doesn't
serve everyone's needs and it's very hard to recognize. For
treatment services, there's not enough treatment, there's not enough support,
and boy do we need funding.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Kate, thanks so much for your call. We're going to
take a break and we come back. I've got David,
Tony and Jay on the line, a couple of other
great text messages there too. And can I just say
Sally who answered, you know, asked the question before. Sally
texted back and just said, thank you, good answer. Have
you ever thought about a program for the victims of
these crimes and someone saying they're sorry and offending offering

(59:32):
answers that they're seeking to help them to be able
to heal. Thank you guys for everything you've shared and said.
It's very much appreciated. So now that's what we'd call
restorative justice. As part of that is actually when you
can meet with the victims of crime meet with the perpetrators.
And that's that's a very common and well established. So
maybe if you're in contact with victim support ask them.

(59:55):
I actually know somebody in Auckland who does is a
restorative just as specialist. Special person does some good work
out there.

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
Tony.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Good morning to you.

Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
Hey mate, how are you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
I'm very good, I'm very good. How are you?

Speaker 6 (01:00:08):
Ah?

Speaker 9 (01:00:09):
Yeah, just thinking a new bit of a way of life,
you know, good good talk. You've got gin on the cave,
you know, and clearly from personal experience of being done
similar things. And it's like always say, you know, the
best the best boss is the one who started on
the broom and worked his way up through and then

(01:00:30):
became the mean to him, the tutor. And so you've
been there, yeah yeah, and you and so were you
are now you you probably well qualified to do what
you're doing and that's great. But I've had issues with
alcohol and drugs probably most of my adult life. Pretty

(01:00:55):
marijuana because I got sick of boying. It was just
ridiculous how much they wanted for it. And then I
thought a bit of it to my friends and people
who worked with and all there. I wasn't there to
get rich, just give them a good deal and all
of that. But I do some hands come to the community.

(01:01:16):
Probably yes, And you know, you look back and wasn't
your in teaching, But that's the unfeseeing the fix of it,
isn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Yeah? Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah, It's not what we intended,
but that's where life landed us at the time, and
it's easy to look back and inspect on that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:01:40):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:01:42):
Recently a year and a half or so back, got
quite barely assaulted and I got some heat injuries and.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
And all of that, and.

Speaker 9 (01:01:53):
I got out of hospital. I probably shouldn't have been
let out in hindsight looking back, but because there's some
serious concussion issues going on. And it was only when
a STC rang me up and started how are you?
And I asked that, asking a few questions and I

(01:02:13):
won't get a look a bit further into this, but anyway,
in the meantime, you know, i'd been quite clean no
drugs and minimum alcohol for quite a while. And while
I was going stir crazy with all these issues going
on my brain because the concussion and all other things

(01:02:37):
that been with it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
I slipped back into the booze.

Speaker 9 (01:02:42):
Not marijuana, but just using a bit of speed and
stuff like that. And then I finally got some help
from the professionals psychologists and had somebody facilitating my rehab
and physical therapy and all those things, and oh yeah,

(01:03:03):
we're going in a good direction, and we're some good
medication from the doctors than that. And then my people
that were looking after me said, oh, you know, we're
probably going to see you for us ACC for a
mental mental injury assessment on you, you know, because you know,

(01:03:27):
and three months time they're probably going to want this,
so we'll get the ball rolling now. So in three
months time, oh you've been it's been twelve months now,
so you're going to get no more treatment anymore. And
and now you were going to have this mental health
assessment done or mental injury assessment done. Well, this was

(01:03:49):
February and it took to like June, but time ACC
got the reporter was like late July. And in the
meantime when for me, I'm back on the booze, back
on the drugs because I've got none of these people
helping me again. And finally, just last week I've got

(01:04:11):
some help again. That was only after I kicked up Mary.

Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
Hell with ACC.

Speaker 7 (01:04:16):
Go glad you did well.

Speaker 9 (01:04:19):
I had to because you have to lose one losing it,
you know, yeah, one even three seven good services. But
hey with ACC's account of accountability for the harmmaded community
to the community or just cutting people off like that

(01:04:39):
and taking forever to do anything.

Speaker 5 (01:04:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
Now, we talk about the impact of systems on people,
multiple systems, their education system, justice system, our ACC system,
and I always, I'm often moaning about it, and I'll say,
the system doesn't love you, and it doesn't care about you.
Does people in there that do, But the system itself doesn't.
And often they can have terrible consequences. And it sounds

(01:05:04):
like you've been getting some of those.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Let's go to Peter. Peter, good morning to you.

Speaker 6 (01:05:10):
Yeah, hi mate, Yeah, hi mate. I loved your subject
of addiction. When I was twelve, I tasted my first
I'm an alcoholic. When I was twelve, I tasted my
first alcohol. I had a blackout when I was twelve.

(01:05:31):
I continued to drink functionally, I hope, until I was
about thirty four. I can't hear myself talking, so this
is quite weird. We can hear you, Peter, Okay, Well,
until I was thirty four, and then you know, life

(01:05:52):
just collapsed. And I got sober in nineteen ninety four,
and I went out there into the world and tried
to help everybody. I went to AA meetings, I went
to Mount Crawford Prison, I went to Mount Eden Prison,

(01:06:16):
Rhodora Island, the Salvation Army, and several of the giving
talks of my life and what I've gone through and
how they could help themselves.

Speaker 9 (01:06:28):
And then.

Speaker 6 (01:06:31):
In twenty nineteen, my health and my wife left me
and so I picked up again. So that's in six
years I've been drinking. Now I can quote you the

(01:06:52):
twelve steps. I can quote you the God grant me
the serenity. All I can say to people is keep trying,
do your best, and there is a recovery there.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
Yeah, there's always hope.

Speaker 6 (01:07:11):
Yeah, I don't have the I don't have the answers
right now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
One day at a time.

Speaker 6 (01:07:17):
I am trying. I'm struggling, but I'm trying.

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Don't stop trying.

Speaker 6 (01:07:24):
I won't stop trying. I haven't achieved anything, but I'm alcoholic.
I've helped with the other you know, I worked with
Salvation Army and now I've dealt with over each as
anonymous co addiction anonymous in a narcotics anonymous. You know,
I've gone around and spoken to them and addiction it

(01:07:47):
is a wicked powerful.

Speaker 4 (01:07:55):
People.

Speaker 6 (01:07:55):
People think you've got a weak will. Is a misunderstanding
amongst people. They think you're weak willed.

Speaker 7 (01:08:01):
Yeah, you're right, the misunderstanding is out there. But here's
my two cents. But it's just based on what you
told us tonight. You've done a heck of a lot
for other people, Like you said, You've done a lot
of service, a lot of reaching out. Maybe it's time
you let other people do some things for you. Maybe
it's time to stay connected with those groups, but actually
to stay connected from the place of, hey, I need

(01:08:23):
some help right now, I'm struggling. Let yourself be vulnerable
and let yourself be helped as much as you can
by those communities that you know.

Speaker 4 (01:08:30):
Well.

Speaker 6 (01:08:32):
I understand what you're saying, and you're the first one
to put it into those words.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Peter, don't make this the last time you give us
a call. No, Okay, Like, I really appreciate that you've
called in tonight and it sounds like you're on a
bit of a journey. But at the same time, you know,
don't just kind of give us this one call because
I want to know how you're getting on. So if
you don't mind, doesn't have to be next week. But
by all means, why don't you get back in touch
with us and let us know how things are going

(01:08:59):
for you because I'd love to hear from you again.
All Right, thank you go well, Peter, thanks very much
for calling.

Speaker 6 (01:09:06):
Yeah, you have a great night.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Well that's it for this episode of The Natters Club.
Thanks to Dave Burnside for his inspiring and courageous conversation.
Much appreciated to all our callers, as well as the
text messages we were inundated all evening. If you liked
what you heard and think it might help someone out there,
then please share this episode on your own channels, all
with family and friends, and if you ever want to

(01:09:32):
be part of the show, then give us a call
or a text. When we broadcast live on News Talk
SETB eleven pm. Sunday nights, New Zealand standard time. Check
out Newstalk SEIDB dot co dot nz for local frequencies
or a link to the live stream. A big thanks
to New Zealand on Air for their ongoing support and
making the show. Take care and always remember the world

(01:09:55):
is a better place with you in it. Life well,
it isn't easy, it is, however, worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
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