On New Zealand's growing Meth epidemic

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
This is the Nutters Club, thanks to New Zealand air
on News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good evening and welcome to the Nutters Club, the show
that talks about your mental health every Sunday night and
Monday morning and tries to see if we can't help
you out along the way. My name's Hamish Williams and Averia.
A good evening to you wherever you might be listening
around the country, around the world. It's an interesting old

(00:58):
time this time of year, isn't It starts getting a
little bit colder around the place. So I guess I
was going to say a special a special shout out
to everyone who's having cold or frosty nights as they
might be going. I've got an interesting situation at the
moment going on at my house. Had the sun the
sun is back from first semester at university and was

(01:21):
very very keen to go and do the tonguerreido crossing.
I was going to do it tomorrow. Managed to work
a think few things out and now remember he's a
poor student, right him and his mate, We're going to
go down and do this, And they decided that they
wouldn't bother spending the princely sum of ninety dollars to
get a cabin for the night. They would just sleep

(01:44):
in the car, which at this time of year, you'd
have to say is a very chilly choice, albeit a challenge. Well, anyway,
it turns out that the plan can't work because you
shouldn't actually be doing the Tongue area this time of
year unless you're a very experienced hiker, and the transfer
service to be able to get a ride back to
their car is unavailable at this time of year because

(02:05):
most people in their right mind, I'll be doing the tonguerdero.
So anyway, things I've learned about the tonguared era in
the last twenty four hours, and I thought, just one
of those interesting things, trying to watch eighteen year olds
figure out how to have adventures over the holidays. Albeit
I think he enjoyed the process of seeing what he
could get up to say instead, he might go for

(02:26):
a walk up at ung A Tote tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Anyway, he's my psychotherapist, he's your psychotherapist. Kyle has had
a pretty nuts idea to want to sleep in the
car if you you know, and at the Tongueard Aero
Crossing car park this time of year.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
Yeah, I think so many. I slept in my car
a fair bit when I was about eighteen ninety, but
usually that was in summer and it was at beaches.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
We used to as a friend of mine, we actually
used to do that in summer. We had a friend
in Queenstown who worked at the Millennium the Millennium hotel,
and we used to sleep in the car opposite it,
and then in the morning he'd come and knock on
our window let us in the side entrance, and we'd
go and use the pool and the s are nice

(03:09):
and then we jump in the we jump in the
queue for the break first, just kind of like waves through. Yeah,
there's when we're when we were about eighteen nice. Yeah,
So you know, I think the things sometimes, the ways
that the ways that you kind of find yourself when
you're eighteen. I mean, full apologies to the lydy of
hotel fight establishment. I actually think I'm staying at in

(03:30):
August yeah, perfect, but I'm actually legitimately staying the front door.
This time. I could go in the front door. Yes, yeah, yeah, anyway, Look, Kyle,
tonight I wanted to have I wanted to have a
chat with you about something because I read a pretty
in depth article which we'll put up on we'll put
up on the Facebook page actually, and it's about myth

(03:53):
and featamine use in New Zealand. Yeah, and basically the
short version of the story is it's bad. But what
has seen is a double is a double amount of
the increase of myth in less than twelve months than
the country there was. The amount of methmphetamine that's been
consumed is being measured through the wastewater, which you might

(04:16):
have heard about in the news.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
Yeah, it's incredible science.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
Actually, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Well, the idea that we can go and get our
wastewater and figure out, you know, what it is that
we're consuming, I guess is helpful to know how big
a problem may or may not be. But the news
here is that it's a big problem. So with the
wastewater testing, what they've been able to see is that
there was an increase from so seven hundred and thirty

(04:42):
two kilograms of meth consumed in twenty twenty three, this
rose to one thousand, four hundred and thirty four in
twenty twenty four.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
Yeah, so like you say, damn, there doubled.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
So yeah, now there's lots of different different parts to this.
But where it starts to get really quite hard to
read about in this article is that. And that is
why I was talking about my young followers, because consumption
now is that they are seeing in some small towns
around New Zealand. And unfortunately it is in the smaller towns.

(05:16):
It's not to say it's not happening in the main centers,
but the reporting for this has come from some of
some of the harder hit places and people as young
as fifteen sixteen becoming addicted. Well, I mean they even
said in some cases there are families that have four
generations within the one family who are currently experiencing the addiction.

(05:38):
Where I get worried about this is that obviously that
the more the more that it becomes prolificated, the bigger
the issue gets. And it's not just an issue for
the individual. Often methanphetamine users can have negative effects on
the wider community as well. And so I've actually and

(05:59):
I've talked to you about this before and we've agreed
to talk about it tonight, I've actually started seeing it more,
especially when I'm in some smaller centers around the country. Yeah,
and being able to actually physically see people who clearly
are using myth And if you know what to look for,
you know what to look for.

Speaker 5 (06:18):
Yeah, you do.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
And I mean, I mean, I guess I'd also like
to add to that. I mean, you know, the article
is really clear. It talks about the highest level of
use being in Northland, and it's very easy to get
caught and stereotypes around this. But you know, my private
practice is in the leafy suburbs of Alleslei, on the

(06:41):
doorstep of remy Era, and we have a number of
people who wash up at our clinic who would be
the exact opposite of the image you might have in
your mind of the normal myth user, whatever that might
be to you. It really is cuts across all boundaries
in this country, and as you say, we know from
the from the youth statistics.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
That it's there.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
Certainly are areas where it's being used more heavily, but
it's right.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Across the country. So in terms of a mental health
approach to this, because there's a whole bunch of different
things that come in this right, you say, Okay, well, look,
do the do customs need to be harder on this?

Speaker 6 (07:18):
You do?

Speaker 2 (07:18):
We need to make the borders tighter somehow.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
Probably, I mean, there's no way we're producing that much
in New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
No, no, And they can tell.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
It's not about so do we for dread it's coming
across the border?

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, that's very little of that. It's actually being cooked
in New Zealand anymore. Apparently it's it's coming as a
fully formed project and they're just slamming, slamming the border
with it. So for whatever you hear about getting caught,
you can know that's a small percentage compared to actually
what's coming in. So is it a borders issue, yep? Probably,
But also then well as a law enforcement issue, you know,

(07:50):
do we need to have more harsher penalties or more
more people, you know, more cops on the beat to
be able to enforce it? Well, okay, certainly there's a
place for that. But then when do we get to
the part where we actually say, well, you know, what
are the root caused? But happy, well well rounded people
don't just wake up in the morning and go you

(08:10):
know what, Kyle, I think I'll pick up a meth
pipe today because well why not. Sure, it just doesn't
happen like it doesn't know, And so that's what we're
trying to I'm trying to understand tonight, and what I
really wanted to kind of have a chat with you
and the listeners in the audience tonight is to talk
about what are some of the psychological roots of why
people become addicts.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
In the first place. Yeah, so that's a great question.
I mean, I think one of the first things we
have to acknowledge, it is kind of obvious, is that
the first pretector of becoming addicted is access. So you know,
it is true that if we target supply, we will
reduce use, and it's fair to say that if we

(08:51):
see an increase in use, then we're seeing an increase
in supply. So yeah, that's that's the starting point. What's
also true is that we also know that a there's
an idea we talk about which is addictive potential. And
one of the things about methamphetamine is not only is
it an incredibly powerful stimulant, but it's actually been around
since the late eighteen hundreds when it was first discovered.

(09:14):
In the eighteen nineties, and it's one of those drugs
that's been around in various forms as a medication, so
it's occasionally has been used as all sorts of things.
A diet drug is a stimulant. It apparently was one
of the drugs that Hitler was doped up on during
the later part of Wi Willo. It has also been
used in the military as a stimulant to keep pilots

(09:35):
and soldiers alert. Often that's an oral form, so taken
in a tablet. So if we think about addictive potential,
we think about this idea that obviously a drug has
to have an effect on our brain and has to
have a strong effect on our brain. But then we
also think about root of administration, So smoking, which is
the common way that people use methamphetamine or p as

(09:56):
some people know. It is basically the drug in a
crystal crystallized form which is heated in a glass pipe
and then inhaled into the lungs, and just like taking
a smoke of a cigarete or a joint, that hits
our bloodstream quite quickly. And so the quicker the root
of administration, the higher the addictive potential, because we get

(10:16):
a hit really fast and what we also know is
is not so common, but people also will use methamphetamine intravenously,
so taking those crystals and diluting them into a liquid
form and then injecting them using a syringe. Not that
common in New Zealand, but it is around much more

(10:36):
common in Australia for people to inject methamphetamine. So the
effects are incredibly powerful. Stimulant, awake, alert, often for sort
of twelve hours sort of effect that does have quite
a long effect. What happens, of course, is that people
quickly like that state and want to keep going in

(10:57):
that state, and of course the human brain really doesn't
like being awake for long periods of time, so the
sort of the short acute symptoms are crashing, long periods
of sleeping and lethargy. Afterwards, what goes up must come down.
But of course then we can often see in extreme
cases that people can end up in what we call

(11:17):
us a drug and juice psychosis, so you know, very
obvious kind of agitation, maybe seeing things or talking to
things that aren't there, aggression, because what we're talking about
is an over stimulated state. And you know, anyone who's
had you know, three or four long blacks in a

(11:37):
road knows that that's quite an uncomfortable state, and you
get a bit twitchy, and you get uncomfortable. Times that
by one hundred, and you're sort of in the territory
of what a drug and juice psychosis looks like of methamphetamine.
And you know, what you often see is maybe you starts,
like any other drug, quite socially in the weekends. But
you know, people who develop a habit can quite quickly

(11:58):
find that they're using on every weekend and then that's
sliding into a daily basis, and so people can sustain
that for a while. But ultimately, of course, what tends
to happen is that, just like any other addiction, consequences
start to happen, whether that be health because you obviously
it's not good for you in lots of different ways.
Cardiac health has affected appetites, decreased obviously, less sleep, but

(12:22):
often mood and what we often see is big depressive
crashes and wildly fluctuating mood states. And once people become
dependent on the drug, of course, then all the stereotypes
around drug addiction kickin that it becomes the focus. As
we've heard many times from guests on the show here.
That can be anywhere from you know.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Sort of.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
Can creep up over a period of sort of a
year or two, but for some people it can be months.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
So what I'd like to do tonight for those of
you listening is I'd quite like to hear your experiences
with myth. Now that sounds probably quite broad, but let's
just talk about that for a moment. It could be
around if you have been supporting somebody who has had
a meth addiction. Could be if you're seeing the results

(13:11):
and the outcomes of meth addiction in your community. Could
be that you yourself have been a user or you
may currently be using it. I would welcome any of
these experiences, but especially if you've been able to access
treatment for meth addiction. What did that look like? Where
did you go? Again? This might have been for somebody

(13:32):
else in your life, may not necessarily have been for
you specifically, But would really like to hear about those
experiences tonight because I'm keen to find out just how
big the issue is in terms of what it's affecting us,
but what is it that works too and able to
counter it. Because we have had many people on the
show over the years who have managed to countermeth addiction.

Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah, recovery is entirely possible with the right kind of
treatment and the right kind of reasons. The reason why
is important, but it's entirely possible.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
So your experiences with meth addiction the treatment of it
tonight on the nut Club. The phone number is eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty, or you can text us
on nine to nine two. That's z b ZB. We
look forward to continuing the discussion with you after the break.

Speaker 5 (14:18):
Nutters Club now on News Talk ZEDB.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Hey, welcome back to the Nutters Club. Tonight. We're talking
about methmphetamine, your experiences with meth, and by that I mean,
quite honestly, if you are someone who has ever used it,
then I would be very interested for you to call
tonight and talk to us about that as an experience.
It'll be very clear this is not an advertisement for meth.

(14:42):
This is very much about us trying to better understand
an issue which is growing in our country. The amount
of use that is happening has doubled in the space
of less than a year, and it's doubled.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
It It's not like there wasn't a lot being used
before it doubled, we should say we knew we had
a problem last year. Now we've got it twice the problem.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, And so my concern is is that, okay, does
this just keep happening? And which point? At which point
is there actually you get to that well, that tipping
point stage where it's just going to rip through some
of our small small towns. And just cause you know,
irreversible damage. I mean four generations in some single families

(15:25):
that are that are now addicts on it. That's that
is cause for concerned. And if you don't think it is,
and I'm not saying that you don't, but you know,
if we kind of think that we can just shrug
away this problem, it's I tell you right now, it
is only going to get worse if we do nothing.
So what I'm interested to hear about tonight is your experiences,
but also too what works in terms of being able

(15:47):
to treat the addiction. So what have you found that
works for you? What have you seen? What have you
been your experiences? All right, let's go to the lines. Louise,
good evening to you.

Speaker 7 (15:57):
Oh good evening, guys, haven't run for a while, but
I felt moved through tonight.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Oh nice to hear you boys, welcome back.

Speaker 7 (16:05):
Yeah, yeah, I have been, yeah, and then going to sleep.

Speaker 8 (16:11):
Anyway.

Speaker 7 (16:13):
To me, mess is the most dangerous and scariest drug
on earth. And it's it's like taking a side for
what do you call it, and going right through your
whole family and the whole vanity. And I say that because,

(16:37):
way way back in the eighties, when I was married
to a guy who used every drug and nine de mankind,
a friend of his bought the mess around and I've
never never touched it, and of course he had been
from azy and we thoughted it and after it, I

(17:01):
was on the literally and I'm not I'm not exaggerating
at all. I was literally on the edge of my
seat saying, honey, honey, what can we tell We need
to sell something, We need to get some more we
need and the guy friend of his, luckily thank god
for that, said not can I get anymore? And because

(17:23):
I would have sold them the left kidney really, and
that is yeah, seriously, I am actually not exaggerating. That's
how I felt. And I've never felt that way about
any substance, any anything ever. I'm not an addictive personality,
but that drug I'm scared the bejeevas out of me.

(17:45):
I wouldn't go near it was a goal.

Speaker 6 (17:48):
Oh, it's just hideous.

Speaker 7 (17:51):
I can't, I can't, you know, well.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
I mean, I'm glad to hear that that that was
your experience was there, But can I just sound in
the first place?

Speaker 9 (17:59):
You know what?

Speaker 2 (18:00):
What what was it that drew you to wanting to
try it? Was it just the curiosity factor?

Speaker 7 (18:05):
I suppose, you know, if you can't even join them?
Was he brought it down for us to enjoy? And
so you know, I was one of those people back
then who try anything once. But I have to say
that for anyone listening out there, do not go near
it with.

Speaker 6 (18:22):
A bab ball, because.

Speaker 7 (18:25):
I'm not addicted to anything, but man, that thing and
it's not as strong then as it is now evidently,
so oh, just stay away. For I know people who've
got relatives who have been addicted for years. I have
an old friend from long ago, and she's addicted to

(18:47):
it and she's lost most of her teeth. She's oh,
it's just destroyed the life, basically, but she can't stop.
She can't stop. It's just people stay away from that stuff.
It just they need to throw more money at that
and a lot less at marijuana. Just forget marijuana, just

(19:08):
go for pea.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
And that's the other thing that the article that I've
been referring to, that's the other thing the article made
clear was they said in terms of other substances that
that you know, people might be abusing, they just sort
of said, you know, weed and alcohol was just the
weed and alcohol consumption was just way down. They said,
it's not being mixed with anything, you know, like it's

(19:30):
not like, oh, you know, it's it's a bit of myth.
It's a bit of booze, you know, it's it's it's
the myth full stop.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
That the other use is pretty stable basically, right, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (19:41):
Yeah, Yeah, it's a worry.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
The causes crime, look, without a doubt, people without a
doubt because it's dealt with you know. Yep, that's that's
part of it, isn't it. You know.

Speaker 7 (19:52):
Yeah, it's just it's basically it takes over your life,
that becomes it becomes your life.

Speaker 6 (20:01):
You know, for a lot of people.

Speaker 7 (20:03):
And I saw that just in that one time where
I had it, and I'm so grateful to that guy
who said not he couldn't get anymore, because if he
had him, I may I don't know if I'll still
be alive.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well, I'm glad that you are, Louise. I'm glad that
you are alive and able to share that with us tonight.
But I think that's a really interesting insight too, isn't it.
Just you know your experience with us as well. So
thank you for sharing that tonight. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (20:34):
No problem.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Go well, okay, we got to take a break. When
we come back, I've got Jerry and Pete on the line.
I'd love to have you as well. So your experience
was with meth and fear demine, either in terms of
cause of use in the first place, but also too
and if you've had any kind of recovery a work

(20:55):
that it might be yourself for for somebody else in
your life. Would love to hear from your eight hundred
and eighty teen eighty back in the moment.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
This is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand Air
on News Dogs.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
That'd be Hey, welcome back to the show. Go straight
back to the lines. Let's go to Jerry. Jerry, good
evening to you.

Speaker 10 (21:14):
Yeah, good evening. Interesting topics tonight.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
What's been your experience with myth and Fiedam and Jerry.

Speaker 10 (21:26):
I'm these are in the fifties. I always had an
addictive personality so just latched onto things without letting it go.
But I'm missing user privately, and I don't really can't
afford it that much. And it's the problem that these

(21:46):
days it's quite costly.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
So can you tell me a bit about that, Jerry,
Because when you say it's costly, how much do you
how much does it cost and how much do you need?

Speaker 10 (21:56):
Well, you'd want to have at least around you know,
two hundred dollars to just blow on, and it would
probably be for a night now and for hour undred
and fifty, we'll get you something better. And the more
you use it, two hundred bucks is like a half
of a gram, and that'll just you know, you'll go

(22:19):
through it and in the night and usually guys are
just ends up getting all. I'll focused on pretty much
just copulating, trying to the females. It's the whole thing
about it. It's quite addictive in that way. It's very
kind of a powerful sort of hormone rush to it.
So right now I can see a lot of guys

(22:41):
that's it gets into and then it's quite it's hard
to the financial side just gets oblivious to you, and
before you know, you'll end up lying or trying to
ride it yourself. And so if you even't got a
strong will and can put it into a just a

(23:02):
recreational use, you'll ends up. It'll just blow you out
and lose everything. And I've lost a few things myself,
so but it's they come down to a personal choice
at the end of the day for people, like your
willpower and whether you want to give up. And a
lot of people they don't want to give up, but
they sort of have to get up. So I end

(23:24):
up trying to give up, but it just doesn't succeed.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
Well, what sort of efforts have you made to give
up or stop over the years, and what sort of
help have you.

Speaker 10 (23:33):
Sort I haven't really sought help of. I've always been
a drinker and a smoke or of weeding, and then
you know, used to pop acid in the eighties and
all that. I was doing pretty much just what everybody
used to be doing in those days. And then you know,
the flavor of the month changes as the years go by,

(23:54):
so one thing becomes the other and it's quite a
subliminal little pathway from this to that to this to that.
But before you know it, you're own, you start living
outside your means. So I've just that forly, just cut
everything back to just I can't afford that if if

(24:16):
I have a good one on a lotto, maybe I'll
go and buy something and shout myself. So I'm not
too I pay my bills, I put food on the table,
so I'm not trying to buy a house or anything else.
And I think it's personal choice. At the end of
the day, I'm not trying. I don't I don't commit
any crimes. I used to be a bit of a

(24:36):
scary way back in the younger days in twenties and thirties,
but it's been working for the last twenty odd.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
So let me ask you, Jerry, would you like to
be able to get off it, like you know, would
you like to be able to not have to spend
any money on it?

Speaker 10 (24:58):
I guess I would. I I've always been when I'm
focused on getting things done, I'll get that done and
anything else I can do after all, I'll usually be
lad like that. But I try to keep my commitments first,
and I'm not. I haven't been working for a little
while yet, so that's pretty much the reason why I've

(25:18):
sort of limited myself to just cutting cutting back. But
as far as stopping, stopping, and I think most people
don't stop until they lose something or you get a
real sharp short shot and end up being caught or something.
And then they'll they'll go through obligations to appeasing you know,
what they have to do, but half the time they're

(25:40):
not really committed to the actual following through. So I don't.
I mon't commit myself if I'm really going to follow
through with it. And then so I've read a good life.
I'm quite happy with what you know, what I've done
and all that, So I don't. I think if people

(26:00):
aren't a lot of people just end up committing crime
and lying and just siphoning money from one thing to another.
So yeah, I just live within my means at the moment,
and the willpower your needs for it's quite high.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Well, Jerr, I just want to say thank you very much.
But you know you've you've been incredibly honest with us
tonight and for everyone listening really appreciate the insight, because
you know, if we don't understand these sort of things
from the first tan people. You know, it's hard to
get any kind of real, real grasp on it, so
really appreciate that. Jerry. Thanks for trusting us enough to
share your story.

Speaker 10 (26:36):
No, yeah, no, yeah, thank you very much. And I
much love to the show and everything. You know, you're
in the country justice but being open and I sort
of things, so you thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Appreciate it, Jerry, you go, well, you're welcome by Well.
I don't think we could ask for anything more honest
than that. Cole no look, and I think it. Thank you, Jerry.

Speaker 4 (26:56):
And it's really useful to hear people's experiences, and I
think what's also important to hear is as the experiences
that start to challenge the stereotype. So as Jerry talked about,
he manages, he manages his use. He has some bright
lines he doesn't cross in terms of income, and you
know that he's not completely stopped, but equally he's managed

(27:17):
to get some control over it.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Your thoughts, your experiences with me them Feedamin. We would
love to have you contribution on the show tonight. The
phone number is eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We're
going to take a break. More calls back soon.

Speaker 5 (27:33):
Not his club now on news Talks, it'd be.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Hey, welcome back to the show. Thanks very much for
your texts that are coming in here. I'm going to
come to them very shortly, so keep seeing them in
nine to ninety two is great. Let's go to We've
got a couple of peaks on the line. Let's go
to Peter.

Speaker 7 (27:50):
Peter.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Good evening to you.

Speaker 9 (27:52):
Oh, good evening. Look, I'm just bringing up a belt
you just because people along myth in the ohile myth.
It don't give them any white to pick on in people.
Don't took them any right to go in society and
try and destroy people's lives just because they were on

(28:14):
the on the myth. You know a lot of people's
lives being destroyed under the hands of people that are myths.
A lot of people are lives of being destroyed because
of them.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, that's that's that's part of the issue here, right.

Speaker 11 (28:31):
I'm just sick and tired of these myths, smokers picking
on innocent people, innocent people for no reason. Look, there
was a baker I saw a bigger as Tony this.
I had no want to come up to him and
pok on them for no reason. He should understand it.

Speaker 9 (28:51):
The baker is struggling.

Speaker 11 (28:53):
Why why can't do the big or base who consider
the words to come and brick on them.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, that's the issue. That's the bad behavior that comes
with it, the out of control nature.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Of unfortunately often aggression, I mean not always, but off
the aggression, especially in a highly stimulated, highly intoxicated space.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
And I think that's the thing that we're That's one
of the reasons we wanted to bring this up, Peter,
is because when we actually do think about some of
the negative outcomes, you know, from what Methampheata means doing
to our country, it is it's it's seeing some of
those things. They're really difficult, they're really hard, they're upsetting,
they make us angry, and so they should. But it's
more about what are we actually looking at, what we

(29:33):
can do? What is it that we can tackle. And
it's a multi pronged thing, isn't it.

Speaker 9 (29:39):
Look it's causing it's causing the vision.

Speaker 11 (29:42):
It's causing the vision, it's causing left and it's causing
the right, meaning he's going to be a war.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Well, that's the point, Peter. We don't want to see
more people getting hurt, and we need to actually think
about what are the things that we can do to
support others to be able to first of all, get
out of get out of the addiction of methamphetamine. But
then equally, how do we stop how do we stop
the stuff coming into the country, how do we stop

(30:13):
the how do we stop the distribution of it? But
considering you know, we're a mental health radio show, right,
so we're talking about what is it The bits and
bobs are going on around why people want to use
in the first place.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
And we should say, I mean, and we'll repeat these
this information in the second half of the show too,
but we should say the help is available. I mean,
you know, there is a twenty four to seven drug
and alcohol help line here in New Zealand which is
eight hundred seven eight seven seven nine seven. If you're
out there and you're listening and you feel like you
want to start that journey for yourself, or does someone

(30:46):
want someone to talk to, or you can just get
in touch with our friends.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Of course, there's a couple of fun texts here. Oh sorry,
our trend's at one one seven three seven sorry, yes, yes, yes,
one seven three seven. A couple of texts here. One says,
so the current government is doggedly burying its head in
the sand regarding p This is going to make COVID
appear minor. They need to acknowledge the problem and act. Yeah,

(31:11):
and I get it, because you know, politically it's such
a huge problem in many ways, Like where do you start?

Speaker 4 (31:19):
Well, I mean, to their credit. In that same article,
there's apparently there's a which I thought was an interesting,
possibly slightly dodgy name, but a meth sprint team has
been put together.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Apparently a meth sprint team.

Speaker 4 (31:31):
Yeah, so justice, police, customs and mental health ministers, which
sounds like the right cluster of people to have in
the room at least.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
So and this is to try and work on for
an urgent response. Yeah, okay, so good news. Oh okay,
Well I'll take that. I gotta text here it just says,
what about if you want something to knock you out
and excruciating pain? Do the doctors have it in small doses?

Speaker 9 (31:53):
As?

Speaker 2 (31:53):
And do they do they use myth like had bad nights?
Better just stick to prescribed sleeping pills? What does it?
What does it look like? Wouldn't have a clue to
two of us to do smoke. So yeah, I think
that that's a good point. I mean it's some small
white almost like bath salt, like that much granular salt

(32:15):
looking type stuff, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
Yeah, So I mean back in the day when people
may have heard of speed, so powdered speed, which you
know looks like stereotypical sort of cocaine. But methamphetamine can
be sold, as our first caller talked about, in a
fine powdered form which is meant to be snorted, or
it can be in a crystallized form, which is concentrated,

(32:39):
just like when you back in the old chemistry days hamage,
when you saturated solution and get chemicals, you know, put
too much sugar and water and it crystallizes. So when
you get that crystalline form, it's much more pure and concentrated.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
So yeah, there's like little.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
Rocks of large sort of salt or bath salts are
varying colors, but often sort of white to sort of
dirty white.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Okay, all right, thank you very much. Now we know
what it looks like. We're going to take a break
when we come back. More of your calls. Eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty, or you can flick aus a
text NAC.

Speaker 5 (33:11):
The Nutters Club on news Talks.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
They'd be they welcome back to the show. A couple
of texts here. One just says, I'll read it. It
says removal welfare may seem harsh, but it's the only
way forward. And so I guess that's that's some of
the stereotypes that you were talking about. You know, people
sort of saying, oh, well, you know, the only people
using method you know, or are on some sort of welfare.

(33:35):
But we know that it cuts right across the country
in terms of social and economic means.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
And I forget the exact year, but it was when
the previous National government was in and Paula Bennett was
a Minister of Social Development, and they had this little
plan to start drug testing beneficiaries and they abandoned it
because actually the level of drug use and beneficiaries should
be no surprise to anyone who really thinks about it.
It's lower than the general population. Yeah, that's really expensive.

(34:01):
So yes, of course there are a percentage of people
who are on a benefit and also make them at
crime to access drugs. But we have to accept that
this is a problem that goes right across all socioeconomic barriers,
you know, from the boardroom to the basement. That's the reality.
It's not the you know, the kind of person that

(34:22):
some people might have in their mind's eye is not
your typical drug user.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Textas says, good evening, guys, I know very little about
meth or any other drug. However, your subject tonight really
piqued my interests because both a family member male thirty
four and myself female sixty nine, had reason to have
medical assessments done for operations recently, which included questions about alcohol,
drugs and smoking, etc. We got into a family discussion

(34:49):
at dinner as we were surprised that the said people
were taking the info totally different places and cities. Were
literally shocked that neither of us did at anything. It
was more presumed to be how much and when This
is obviously something myself in the community need a lot
more awareness about. Thanks the informative stants. Look, this this
is something which I thank you to the text. They

(35:10):
haven't got a name on there, but this is something
which I was just talking to Kyle on the AD
break about because you know, something that Jerry said was
well you know, everyone was doing it, so I gave
it a go. And I can tell you that I,
as far as I know, in terms of my day
to day, I don't have anybody around me doing it.
I've never seen anybody with the glass pipe. I've never

(35:33):
been offered it. If they are doing it, they're doing
it very much away from me, and they're certainly not
telling me. And I'd like to think I'm a reasonably
social guy. Kyle, Well, let me tell you the flip
side of the story.

Speaker 7 (35:44):
Right.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
We were talking about this before we came on here.
The number of times, it's uncanny, the number of times
that I've had people in recovery or starting their recovery
journey from drug addiction who will turn up at some point,
and it might be in New Zealander, it won't even
be overseas, so that there will be in a new town,
new city, and within twenty four hours a complete strangers
come up to them and offer to sell them drugs. Now,

(36:06):
I'm not talking about the stereotypical tiling and experience or
you know, being on a beach in Balley. I'm talking
about Hong Kong. I'm talking about Australia and the reality
of that is that I think there is something about
people can connect on a level, or there's something that
people recognize about people who are in that world or
are interested in that world that comes together. So when

(36:28):
you say that, it's like, well, maybe there have been
people around you that just sort of know you're not
that guy.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
I do know because and this is true, I do
know that because there have been a few times hasn't
happened recently, but probably pre COVID. Yeah, there was a
few times where groups of people I knew, I'd see
that they're on Facebook and they all post the photos
that they've been at a party and I hadn't got
the invite right, and I actually personally felt a little
bit rejected and thought, oh, you know, I'm obviously not

(36:55):
you know, it wasn't good enough or cool enough. And
I broached it one time with a friend of mine
and said, oh, I saw you guys were all at
that party, and he goes, yeah, no, you weren't invited
because everyone knows that you don't use right there you
and so there was no point. Yeah, you know, you
would have just been uncomfortable. And I was like, oh, okay,
I didn't quite know how to feel about it. But
that's the point. We've had people on the show here

(37:17):
before too, have told us that, you know, they could
be anywhere in New Zealand and get their hands on
methmfeater meane in less than twenty minutes. Yeah anywhere.

Speaker 6 (37:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Now I live in west Auckland. I can't even go
buy a six pack of beer after a certain amount
of time, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, you
want to you want to get a bear in west
Auckland after a third water tanks, porters, lassies, you know, good,
good luck, but meth fill your boots. Twenty minutes will
sort out.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
Which I mean, we're laughing, but it's actually quite terrifying,
and it is terrifying from the point of view that actually,
if you think about that from the point of view
of someone who's trying to stop or change their use,
that makes it really hard.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, let's go back to the lines. Eve, good evening
to you.

Speaker 8 (37:58):
Oh yeah, I'm just going to talk about my experts,
who I've had a couple of times in my life.
Net in the nineties, I was happy there and they
bought children, and then suddenly my husband just under to
change and I didn't know why. I had no idea.

(38:22):
But after two years, and it was so bad even
I got a little bit the priests, you know, wondering
what the hit was going on. But it's not so
bad that I eventually just picked up the children and
they lived in a little while later I did find
out that he was using p.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah, how and how long do you think he'd been using?
But by the time that you should have noticed.

Speaker 8 (38:54):
I would say two or three years.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Wow, Okay, that's quite a long time.

Speaker 8 (38:59):
Hyeah.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Do you have any contact with them at all?

Speaker 12 (39:04):
Now?

Speaker 8 (39:08):
For the children and children?

Speaker 10 (39:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (39:13):
And he is he still still using? Or did he?
Did he get some help in the end?

Speaker 8 (39:18):
No, I reentally, I need to stop, but he's in
another relationship, right, yeah, and he's quite a null in
other ways.

Speaker 9 (39:28):
So right, you just get to stop.

Speaker 8 (39:32):
Then My life wasn't easy for children for a while,
but I hadn't worked for so long, and I just
had to get himself together and lend as much as
I can and go to night school. And I ended
up getting a good job itself, and life was going
really good. And then I had a daughter and her partner,

(39:58):
a couple of kids, and I could see a deterioration
or life. The children were being looked at very well,
and so you know, I mean that they were both
saying to you as well. And eventually its situation, you know,

(40:23):
I hate to take I think the court and the
children after them. I've still got the actually, but the
situation was prety lucky, you know, violent deiation of looking

(40:44):
out for their children. Now it was not nice at all.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
No, And I mean what you're talking about here, this
is this is the pointing end of the sphere in
terms of you know, what the reality is. I mean
you you know, you were you hit me, you were married,
you had kids, and then there's a there's a you know,
a secret addiction going on for and for years you
say a number of years. But ultimately it's not just
the you user that often gets affected. You know, in

(41:11):
that case, it does you as the kids. You know,
that's that's a lot of people that have that negative impact.
And I think that's part of what we're talking about tonight,
is about how big the issue is and in terms
of how many people it ends up affecting. Ave. Thank
you so much for your core. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 8 (41:27):
Yeah, I'm so empty. You know, I really yea, as
much as I can I can. You know, people just
do not start, don't you know. That's that's my key
that I try to give out there.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
No, I hear you loud and clear. I think that's
very great advice. Thank you so much. All Right, we
are going to go to news, sport and weather and
then we'll be back with more of your calls, more
of your text tonight here on the Nutters Club.

Speaker 5 (42:04):
This is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand on
News Talk z BE.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Welcome back to are the Nutters Club. But we have
been talking about myth and fetamine. This is all on
the back of quite an in depth article that's been
written about the states of meth use in New Zealand.
In short, as I opened up the show, I said,
it's bad. We've more than doubled the amount that's being used.

(42:30):
We know this from the wastewater testing which gets done
all around the country and to twenty twenty three, seven
hundred and thirty two kilograms of methn fetamine was consumed
in this country. At least that's what we've been able
to ascertain from the wastewater. That's a lot. If you're
wondering that is a lot. However, in twenty twenty four

(42:53):
the numbers have been revealed that it's one thousand, four
hundred and thirty four kilograms of meth n fetamine. We
know that it is just that the border is just
getting slammed, and it's not just coming through on airplanes.
It's coming through through through maritime, through boats, through sorts
of different ways. It's mostly not being cooked here anymore.

(43:13):
Is what we understand is that it's just getting slammed,
and which means that sad to say that number is
probably increasing. I've been I've been having a couple of
experiences over the last few months where I'm pretty damned
certain that I've been seeing more people just visibly in
public spaces probably the last six months, i'd say, all

(43:36):
over the space, where people who look like they are
being affected, that they're high, they're on the meth. And
the idea that we wanted to share with you tonight
was to try and better understand it. But in terms
of your experiences with myth, it might be as someone
who uses it, but it also people who've been affected

(43:56):
by others who use it, and also to really interested
in anyone who's been able to reach out to any
services to be able to get off it and figure
out how that rehabilitation piece works. The point here is
that we've got a massive issue, and I want to
say thank you so much to all of our calls,
because everyone who's WRUNG has been very, very deeply honest,

(44:17):
and it's ranged from from from current users, people who've
used it once, from from people that are angry about
how it's affecting our communities and how it's affected relationships,
you know, destroyed, destroyed marriages, you know, taken taking kids,
you know, parents away from them. It's it's been really hard.

(44:38):
And this is a addiction issue, as we've we've talked
about it, but it's it very much focuses on what
the experiences of this are. Is how we're going to
better understand how we can do something about it and
what does that look like and one of.

Speaker 4 (44:53):
The things we can do too. And we've touched on
this in the first hour, but you know, it's very
easy to get caught up as we've in focusing on
just the supply side, as they call it, which is
the border, the policing, the cracking down on deaders, and
all the rest. That's important. I wouldn't want to minimize
that for one moment, but actually just as important as

(45:13):
the demand side. So how do we address the demand side? Well,
we need more treatment. And actually really important with any
alcohol and drug treatment, and we've talked about this a
lot on the show over the years, is that motivation
is key, and so when somebody reaches that point where
they need to get help, the most important thing is
that help is available to them at that moment. So

(45:34):
you know, if you can imagine if you're someone who's
really struggling with addiction and you have a day where
you are sitting there and you go, you know what,
I've had enough, I want to stop. I need help,
and you get on the phone, get on the old email,
and you find out, oh, yeah, look we can see you,
but you're going to have to wait six weeks. What
do you think the most likely outcome is of.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
That, Well, I think probably six weeks is too long.
You miss your window. Yeah yeah, and sometimes three days
can be too long. So it's you know, important to
say off the bat, the twenty four hour help lines
are there. You know, we talked about the Alcohol and
Drug Helpline eight hundred seven eight, seven, seven nine seven,
or of course our good friends at the National Helpline

(46:14):
on one seven three seven. But also most if you're
in a big city, most of the CADS units, the
community alcohol and Drug services units, most of them have
a drop in tree as it might be an hour,
might be two or three hours in the afternoon or
the morning. Most of them will have a time where
you can actually just drop in and have a yarn
and say I need help, and I need it today,

(46:36):
and they will do everything they can to find you
that help. And of course a lot of really good
rehab services in New Zealand.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
Some are private, but most are actually fully funded. And
again it's the big centers that tend to have them,
but they are somewhere you can actually go and stay
for a period of time and get yourself sorted.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Considering how large the issues are that we're seeing and
the increase, I can't shake this. My main concern here
is that we're only a little country. We're only five
and a half million, at which interce that we then
hit a tipping point where this is an issue which
really just starts destroying whole town's You know, we're reading

(47:15):
in this article about users as young as fifteen. Yeah,
that there will be four generations of one family that
are all currently using methem fetamine. This is not good.

Speaker 4 (47:26):
No, it doesn't, and I mean it's terrifying. I mean
it's true for any drug, even alcohol, is that we
want to be minimizing any adolescent use because these things
are neurotoxic and methamphetamine in particular is literally a poison
for the brain at high dose, so they affect the
way the brain develops if you start using them early too.
So yep, absolutely, and again it comes down to getting

(47:47):
help into those communities and reducing the demand side.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, okay, I really want to hear your thoughts on this.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, your experiences. Let's
go to the lines. Jade, good morning to you.

Speaker 13 (48:03):
How am I?

Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah, good Jade, thanks for calling.

Speaker 12 (48:07):
Good good.

Speaker 14 (48:09):
So I'm I just tuned down and he's just talking
about methm fittermine and your experiences with it and all that. Jazz,
I'm kind of glad you're on the heaven of discussion
about this, because only you're talking about it like you're
you're on the other side. It was like, you know,

(48:30):
I mean, like and so it's I think it's great
because so I'm in recovery now, I've been in recovery
for three and a half years.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Well done, I'm forty.

Speaker 14 (48:44):
I'm forty, and I've been using since I was sixteen.

Speaker 7 (48:48):
Wow.

Speaker 14 (48:50):
Yeah, so I think I did the math. By the
time I gave well, by the time I stopped it,
I've been using over half of my life, you know,
and out we're at a start. Oh, I guess, I
don't know. I mean I was quite functional on it.

(49:14):
Always had a job, traveled the world, you know, bought stuff.
How their sets never really never really hit me like that,
but it was just something that was there in my life. Hence,
you know, uh in a secret food that was there

(49:34):
in my life. You know, my friends and Anne I
was using, and they knew that. Like obviously, I mean,
I could keep myself to a degree, but there was
a deep down just a guilt that lay me because

(49:56):
it just you know, it was a deep, dark secret.
I hated it and I hated the relationships that it
broke to ben later on in life in my adult years,
I'm talking about the last year I got good bios
with ADHD and I've I've had it. I've had it since,

(50:21):
like you know, fairly teens, and I've never never thought
anything of it. I mean, I got diagnosed about a
year ago and the question of have I had addiction
problems came up and I'm like, are out? Yeah, And

(50:44):
the apparently ADHD is very people with alis do you
send tend to have a higher rate of addiction and
substance abuse. And then I did a bit of research

(51:04):
more on it, especially through the psychologist So listen gubb
or matte and h he's like a world renowned addiction expert.
And it reckons that not only does it kind of
give you comfort from trauma, but also what do they

(51:26):
feed you up with when you've got ADHD?

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Well, there's all sorts of things. But yeah, Britain, Brian
is one of the dedications and drag very similar toolutely right.

Speaker 14 (51:41):
And the doctor said, so I had to wait. I
had to wait a bit. I've only literally just started
on it on the deck seas now because she said
research has shown that methm fetamine actually I want to
say it works but helps ad ADHD, and and it

(52:06):
like it's a tricky one. Ah, But I had to
wait a while before I got on the pharmaceuticals stuff
because I've been as C said, I've been on the
on the good stuff for so long. My body won't
won't do anything with the pharmaceuticals, you know. And over

(52:29):
the years, you know, like you know, started with you know, yeah,
I always always always had the weed up until I
was about you know, mid mid twenties, early twenties. It
just stopped smoking weed. But I'll tell you what, now
it's easier to go find a bag that it is
to go find a sitty, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah, Well, we were talking about that access part of it,
and that's that's that's you know, where a lot of
the concern is because as Kyl has been saying, is
that one of the one of the problems with the
addiction is the availability. And so if it's easily available,
it's it's very very hard to well, it's not possible
your proof of that jade, but it becomes a lot

(53:11):
of a lot more difficult if you know that you've
got easy access.

Speaker 14 (53:16):
Yeah, And I think nowadays, like part of the reason why
I stopped is because number one, the quality of can
you call myth quality? The quality the quality of the
myth has decreased over the last twenty odd years since
I strategies in it to the point where it's dangerous.

(53:40):
It's garbage is literally, I mean, it bad for your
health regardless, but now it's really bad for your health,
you know what I mean. And it's doing stuff that
is just not you know, it doesn't feel like myth
do you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
It's a decrease in purity.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
Bad purity might be a better way of saying it.

Speaker 14 (54:03):
Yeah, I mean, I basically it rattled, like you know,
you should be able to get rattled, but now you
don't get rentled. You get paranoiaus straight away, or anxiety
or agitation straight away. It's just it's just horrible, you
know what I mean. And it's it's just I mean,
I just yeah, nothing was around now. I think when

(54:26):
you look around Auglam City through when you look around
the drugging abuse and use in the city now and
the mental health, I think a lot of the mental
health is caused by bad drugs. You know, one of
the days where you see the meth us that's full
of souls all over its face anymore, you know, it's
all a lot of mental health now it's weird.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
And did I hear you say that you started on
the XM feta me? Yeah, how are you finding that
as a treatment?

Speaker 14 (55:01):
It gives me clarity? Like it just it puts all
the chaos like it last those all the chaos into
one like manageable chaotic? Does that make? I found when

(55:21):
I stopped using, like it was really hard, not for
the addiction, but I found that it made me focus
and made me uh, it just it just it just
gave clarity to everything. And you know, I could eat,
I could sleep, I'd wake up, have a pipe, have

(55:42):
a shower, go to work, have lunch, have a pipe.
You know, it was just part of my day. And
it didn't change how I slept or ate or anything
like that. And but what it did, it was just
it just it just kind of calmed everything down in
the brain and just gave me focus and clarity. And
then when I when in this period where it's three

(56:02):
and a half or for com of dixies for three years,
that was hard.

Speaker 7 (56:07):
That was the hardest.

Speaker 14 (56:08):
Three is because not from the drugs. It's because I'm
trying to use my brain without any clarity. Bloody drugs,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (56:19):
And I do the hardest, and I mean.

Speaker 14 (56:22):
It's just hard to manage.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
It's interesting that the article that we actually kicked off
the show with sites in Australian study which says that
they estimate well, they found in one study rather than
Australia that up to about forty five percent of people
who use a list at stimulants screened positive radio HD.
Now that's pretty high, right, that's nearly half. But it
makes sense to me from the point of view that

(56:48):
there are a group of people who find that they're
actually self medicating. The problem, of course, is that what
you end up doing is missing the window you go
from a helpful dose to an unhelpful dose. Frankly, and
the XM fetamine that I mentioned in the call, I
mentioned XM fetamine is one of the drugs used radio HD.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Sure.

Speaker 4 (57:10):
The other one, rittalin, which most people have kind of
heard of, is actually methyl fenadaatee, which chemically is a
very close cousin to meth fair men, they're both simin
on drugs, but of course they're pharmaceutical grade and that
administered in a pill, so it is a slightly different thing.
But it's interesting when we start to look at these
things through a slightly different lens, and you know it

(57:30):
makes sense that if someone's using it in that way,
they can sustain their use for a really long time.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Jade, thank you so much for the call, and by
the way, well done on all your work that you've
been doing for yourself. That's not easy, mate, you're doing
it awesome. Where you have got to take a break
when we come back. I've got Pete, I've got Dina
on the line, You've got your texts coming in. Still
room for a couple more calls there. We'd love you
to join the conversation. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty back soon. Nuts's Club now on News Talks. I'd

(57:55):
be welcome back to the show. I've got a text
TIF from Michelle. Michelle says soudo efydream is now legal
in cold medication. Could that be part of the reason
meth levels are testing higher in the wastewater. It's a
good question. What we understand is that actually there's very
little cooking being done and using on. Jade kind of

(58:17):
was alluding to that too when he was saying that
the quality's gone down.

Speaker 4 (58:20):
Although I had the text differently, I thought the text
was suggesting that perhaps if in pseudoephagrine use has increased,
could that be being picked up in the wastewater. The
answer to both those questions is no. So, first of all,
the wastewater, I am no scientist. In fact, we were
talking at some point to light off here that both
of us stopped doing science performed. So although in my defense,

(58:42):
I will say my partner is a pharmacist, so I've
picked up a few thanks over the.

Speaker 5 (58:45):
Last twenty five years.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
Okay, well done, But I won't pretend to understand how
the wastewater testing works other than to say it is
incredible science and it is really accurate, so they know
what they're getting, so that they won't be getting the
pseudoephridrin and the methfo to be muddled up. If that
is what you meant, Text, it might not be. On
the other hand, we also know from the research that

(59:06):
the increase of domestic supply is not due to sudu
epi dream, which is the reason side efa Dream was
taken off the shelves.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Because it is possible to use.

Speaker 4 (59:16):
The ephadrine part to as a base ingredient for cooking
up methmfitamin, which again, I have no idea how you
do that, and even if you did, I wouldn't tell
you on the radio.

Speaker 5 (59:26):
But it was one of the ingredients.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
This was the reason for it being banned in the
first place.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
I still remember when this is because we had that
period of time where you couldn't buy pseudo, right, I
still remember when you could. And I was on a
work trip down to Wellington and I had actually got
quite sick. Yeah, and I wasn't wasn't particularly well, and
what we were doing I sort of still had to
kind of power through. And one of the people I

(59:50):
was working with she said, oh, look, I'll go and
get you some some flu tablets and the just power
you through. And I was like, yeah, I can make it.
I can make it. But back in those days, I
don't know if that people still do this, but at
least this is how we used to do it. You'd
have an envelope of cash called padeems, and so you
got given the cash, yeah, like your expenses and yeah,
it's expense and I think we got like three hundred
bucks a day or something. Yeah that's food and everything, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, food, travel, everything.

Speaker 12 (01:00:13):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Now you just kind of claim it back and whatever.
But back then you got given us a limb envelope
of cash. Of course, it was three one hundred dollar bills.
And so she walked into a pharmacy. It was like, oh,
I'll have the I'll have the coldrics, you know, the
extra string stuff. And then she opened up her little
envelope with the cash and they no, no, they did,
but she had to provide her they said, the driver's

(01:00:36):
license and she had to sign a form and all that,
you know. And she came back out and she's like, oh, yeah,
I would have would have sent off the alarm bells.
I was like, yeah, yeah, So you know, it's not
as slow. This is a new thing. As my point,
this has been going on for some time, and unfortunately
it is only getting worse. Yeah, we're gonna take another

(01:00:59):
quick break when we come back, and I come to
Pete and then Dina, like, I say, a couple of
lines there available for you, eight hundred and eighteen eighty
back in a month.

Speaker 5 (01:01:08):
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Speaker 15 (01:01:23):
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Speaker 5 (01:01:29):
Yeah, nah, that would be kind of weird.

Speaker 7 (01:01:31):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (01:01:31):
I was totally like just asking for a friend.

Speaker 14 (01:01:34):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:01:34):
Well, anyway, it's got to be Pitstock, the blue one.
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Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
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Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Caring for our community, Batterytown dot co dot in said,
this is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand on
air on Newstalg ZEDB.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Welcome back to the show. Let's go straight to the
line's pet. Good morning to you.

Speaker 13 (01:02:47):
Good a guys. Here's nuts coding.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
It's going fine on my end. How how's it sounding?
I mean, this is the thing. I don't have to
listen to it.

Speaker 13 (01:02:58):
Well, it's pretty gootic considering the subject are you covering?
Which is? I hate to use it with complext because
there's some one of the complex targets, something simple and
made up by some Franknstein scientists, as I don't concerned.
But you know what I'm trying to appeal to say
to the audience. So they'se my pime targets of the

(01:03:22):
young parents who are unaware of what Doug drug drug?
What's it called? You know? Regalia? That's the word Regalia
is all about. And I thought i'd throw them in
the pitcher in three minutes. And firstly, the nicknames if

(01:03:42):
your young kids are using the word crack, he mess
meen vetamins, the net rings and a lambell if they
you just bring it up common. And the cost well
at one hundred dollars for a small bag, which is

(01:04:04):
pretty pitiful. It's an able hide and a priced there's
two bit a bit of a bad batch of difference.
That's basically what it is. And what the said bit
is is that it's called a poor man's cocaine because

(01:04:26):
cocaine is some more expensive cocaines at the top of
the bust, right, and for one hundred dollars, which it
started at all from, that's called a point. A point
is a small bag of pea, okay, And it fluctuates
now into these proces between thirty fifty, but it never

(01:04:52):
goes but prt eighty. Now it's overpriced, over survide and
you're glut on the market.

Speaker 6 (01:05:00):
And so.

Speaker 13 (01:05:02):
You get there with some bearers who give me ten
puffs of the pea through their prime in these twenty dollars,
which we have said two dollars above the so jupiters.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Yeah, it does actually say in the article that we've
been referring to that the cost overall had come down
and that's reflected the reflective on supply, the idea that
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
Also that it's actually relatively expensive and is in globally,
which is one of the reasons why we're getting targeted
in terms of our supply to.

Speaker 13 (01:05:36):
You know, I'm thinking, guys, I'm thinking in the circumference,
and I'm thinking of a psychologist called Andy Warhol who
was promoting the RSD in the sixties and even made
miss in common to say that the brain needs food
and needs food to afford as well.

Speaker 9 (01:05:59):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
I like you.

Speaker 13 (01:06:01):
Yeah, I'm not promoting a condole conveying it, but I'm
just saying, well, look at Portugal right now. This supply
has gone right down because of brigalized. The government are
making money from it, scaling the treatment he business in
the rebilitation put the bad guys aren't getting them. But

(01:06:21):
it's never going to be well. I'm not saying legalized
in Fitermans, but legalize the warner for us. You've got
the legal down for a program that's from running for decorads.
You know it domis, don't you pull me in. It's hope,
it's given by a chemist liquid form to the lines methods.

(01:06:47):
Then you've got red London. I forget the compact make
up with it. I did look it up in a
new epox cadog one or maybe barns made like the
lo of them. Have you heard alecto? No, No, it's
called the new epox scalog. It's because your breakdown of
the medications, but inside of them chemically decide if the

(01:07:08):
X and treated for.

Speaker 9 (01:07:12):
Mitigations.

Speaker 13 (01:07:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:07:16):
The wonderful thing is these days can get most of
that information online. Actually, if you suge most of the drugs,
you can get most of the media, at least the
prescribed drunk. You can get most of the med safe
sheets here in the inland online, which is great.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
The same, folks, Thanks appreciate that, very insightful A good week,
Yeah you too, mate. Go well.

Speaker 4 (01:07:37):
It's an interesting idea though, the Portugal models one that's
been talked about a lot over the years, and it's
a very challenging idea. When you come from the place
of being able to think about drugs, there's only something
that we should sort of arrest into oblivion. But when
we start to think about harmonimization, we do start to
think about things like, well, actually, how how could we

(01:07:58):
help people minimize the harm from the methamphetamineus How could
we provide drug substitution for instance, you know, like method
Owner is a drug substitution treatment for opiate addiction. So
it's prescribed and they get people stable on that and
then over time they can come off that drug. So
that when we start to think about how to you know,
crack this nut, as it were, there's lots of different solutions.

(01:08:20):
It's not just about arresting the bad guys.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
And I think that that's probably where the whole conversation
we're having gets a little distracted, because it does feel
like it's the Wow, we just need to you know,
send in the send in the cops to go and
smash down the gangs and that'll make it all right.

Speaker 10 (01:08:36):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
I am no advocate for gangs at all, but it's
a gross over simplification of actually what's required. Well hasn't
work so far, no, no, and it's not going to
There's a whole bunch of real core issues here and
thinking about how do we actually approach this, yeah, to
be able to change the outcome. The outcome being that

(01:08:57):
we've got a huge, massive, methamphetamine market, which has just
seemingly increased, and to the point, you know, a lot
they're saying that a lot of the myth that's coming
through its coming through the Pacific, it's coming from you
from Mexico, Central and South American countries where it's being made,
and we're on their radar. They're actually looking at us

(01:09:19):
being like ho lea, those keywies, they love their mess.

Speaker 4 (01:09:23):
It's recreational sailors.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
You've got to watch out for recreational sailors. You recon
you reckon, we get we get blamed for everything.

Speaker 4 (01:09:32):
Pirates on the high seat.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
We get blamed for everything around here. God, let's go
back to the lines. Dina, good morning to you.

Speaker 6 (01:09:39):
Oh good even, good morning.

Speaker 16 (01:09:42):
I'm just doing I'm a recovering editt of quite a
few decades. My drug of choice wasn't Missing Better Mean,
but I did use the diet in Beta mean for
a few years. Okay, what I would like to focus
on is the lack of treatment provision for these people.

(01:10:03):
I've worked in field myself Sidney, Australia, but you know
there it doesn't seem to be much in the way
of rehabilitation available Where you say I we've got cads
and all that, but really what they are offering these
days is fairly slender as well. You know, I keep

(01:10:24):
my finger on the pulse. I was fortunate enough to
go through Queen Mary Hospital in Hamner Spring many years ago.
Now that hospital is sitting there falling, you know, falling
to ruin. It's up to the government to provide these facilities.
You know, the Salvation Army get most of the funding,

(01:10:48):
which is a bit sad really, and you can't swap
mess and betamine but Jesus, which they tend to want
to do in their treatment facilities. You know, we've got
a huge problem with alcohol, yeah, and methan, betamine and
other drugs. And this government, well in subsequent governments. That

(01:11:10):
was the Labor government under Helen Clark that closed Queen
Mirry and HIMNA. It was one of the best treatment
thenders in the Southern Hemisphere.

Speaker 4 (01:11:19):
Can I ask you a question. You said that you'd
worked in this field in Australia. I'm just curious whether
you know that there are particular things that you think
the Australian treatment Druger treatments.

Speaker 11 (01:11:30):
Yeah, as.

Speaker 16 (01:11:33):
The Australian government provide lots and lots of money to privately,
to private reheads and in some government runs. So they're
fabular off over the here. Drug addicts. You know, if
they want treatment, you've got to want it.

Speaker 7 (01:11:51):
You know.

Speaker 16 (01:11:51):
It's not something that you know, you suddenly decided a
magistrates is you're going to go and do this, because
that doesn't work. You know, for sure, person has to
be willing. Yeah, addiction is a very complex problem. And
I heard someone meant doctor Marte Garbor. You know you've
probably heard him yourself, trauma traumas. Yeah, Trauma's one.

Speaker 4 (01:12:16):
People out there listening. Yeah, Garbor Martine. I mean his
books will be in the public libraries as well as
the bookshop, so that they.

Speaker 16 (01:12:22):
Are really Marte Garbor. Garble is the surname, right, Yeah.
He runs seminars online. You know, I've been to a
couple of them, and he knows what he's talking about.
I mean, there's all of these people working in the
field nowadays. You know a lot of them are recovering edits,
which is wonderful, but they're not very particularly well trained

(01:12:47):
here in New Zealand, I don't think. And I remember
going to a seminar in Sydney and in the late
nineties in.

Speaker 13 (01:12:54):
Regards to Myth M.

Speaker 16 (01:12:55):
Petterman and myth Emmin Edit from America was the first
speaker he had been clean, but of fourteen or fifteen years.
But you know, it's a global problem, yeah, Moody me
saying better means of money spinners. So it's here to stay,
like alcohol, you know, and it's up to the governments

(01:13:17):
and the customs authorities and the law to sort of
tighten up. Really, I've been noticing lately that quite a
lot's coming in through the border, foolishly packed like fifteen
packets in a suitcase, you know. Heah, easy, easy target,
you know. But yeah, I don't think there's any quick fos.

(01:13:40):
I think it's here to stay. Really, the new feel
good drug, you know. I mean, if the world wasn't
such a miserable place, people wouldn't need to be taking drugs,
would they.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
That's also a very good point, and I'm going to
come to that in our next little bit, Dana, But
thank you so much, and.

Speaker 16 (01:13:56):
We need even talk about that. It was hard for people,
you know, they wouldn't want to be intoxicated on drugs
and alcohol as much as they are would they.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
Well, I made the point in the last hour. I said,
you know, it's it's not like happy people suddenly you know,
wake up and go. You know what, I've heard a
lot about this medand fear. I mean, I don't think
I might just give it a go. What are you
up to? The you know, it's just not how it works,
is it.

Speaker 16 (01:14:24):
And it's very sad to hear that there's four generations
in one family, you know, that are using.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Drug if I if I'm reading the article correct. They
said that that that is becoming more common, that that's
not an isolated incident, and that you know, people as young.

Speaker 16 (01:14:41):
But there's also the crime. I mean, I've been the
victim of several biglaries, one in Wellington and quite a
few down here in the South Island, you know.

Speaker 14 (01:14:50):
And I was told by the.

Speaker 16 (01:14:52):
Police, you know that it's you know, the edits that
are out there doing I mean they were all done
during the day, you know, when I was a yeah,
it's it's a scouche of humanity, this drug. You know,
the mental health facilities are being text you know, so
that people who are not using drugs but have mental unwellness,

(01:15:17):
you know, can't get into acute facilities. I mean, it's
just it's become a burden, you know, it's becoming a
burden on our society now, you know, really there's a.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Lot, there's a lot of demand, there's a lot of need.
But Dina, thank you so much. What you do for
others is what I wanted to heed here. You hear
us say to you tonight. So I appreciate everything that
you've done and well done on your own recovery.

Speaker 16 (01:15:44):
Yeah, I think it's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Yeah, go well, we're going to take a break when
come back. Got a couple of texts I want to
read out here also too. If you wanted to make
a contribution to the show, now's the time. Eight hundred
and eighty eighteen eighty lines are clear. We'd love to
be able to talk to you about your experiences with
a methn fear. DE mean, it could be through your
own addiction, could be the fact that you might have

(01:16:08):
experienced it through others, but also too if you have
had any kind of rehab experience, what's that been like,
access to services, effectiveness of it. Dina had a few
very appointed opinions there that she had observed through her
own experience what has been yours eight hundred and eighty
teen eighty Back soon it's overnight talk on News Talk

(01:16:29):
z'b Hey, welcome back to the Nutters Club. And of
course I've got a text here from Keith, and Keith
is just picking up on what Dina said. Keith had
actually texted it before Dina said it, so this is
obviously going through your minds out there tonight. It just says, greetings, gentlemen.
The first thing to consider is why do people resort
to drugs in the first place? Very good question. Look,

(01:16:52):
it's varied, right, Kyle.

Speaker 4 (01:16:54):
Yeah, Look, I mean, but essentially we know a few
things that tend to predict it. And I mean the
obvious thing to say is trauma with both a capital
T and a small tea. So, as you said, quite rightly,
Hamish people use drugs to cope with feeling not good
in their lives. Sometimes it's just curiosity and being experimental
and being out and making impulsive choices, and sometimes those

(01:17:15):
people get hooked too, But most of the time we're
doing it because we want to feel better and we
don't feel good in the first place.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
I'm a big believer that we do need to find
things to collectively feel good about. Yeah, and you know,
just just a historical things aside. You know, I always
think that back to ninety five when everyone got in behind,
you know, buying pairs of red sox to support a
certain boat race up there in San Diego, and you know,

(01:17:42):
people who knew nothing about sailing or gave any kind
of real concern for it. But it was I think
that it wasn't actually all about the boat. Yeah, sometimes
it was just nice to get in behind something to
collectively feel good. Yeah, and we did. And I don't
know where those things are. And if you were to
tell me where's the next big feel good thing coming
for our country, I actually can't tell you off the

(01:18:04):
top of my head.

Speaker 9 (01:18:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:18:05):
And then at the grassroots of it, of course, like
we always talk about on the show, feeling part of something,
feeling part of a community. So sometimes trauma can be isolation. Correct,
Community and connection are huge. But I will say this
much when I'm talking about, you know, having something to
look forward to, start with the little things, yeah, you know,
just little things for you and the people around yourself,
you know, like honestly being able to just look forward

(01:18:26):
to spending time with friends and family to go and
do something basic. It can be that simple, but then
if people don't have friends and family in their life,
that really simple thing ends up becoming an incredible challenge.
Let's go to the lines. Owen, Good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Owen.

Speaker 12 (01:18:43):
Oh hello, how are you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
I'm good, I'm good, thanks for calling.

Speaker 12 (01:18:48):
Well. In my case, for example, I had a guy
that was with me who was a regular p user,
but I didn't know how much it was taking. It
was only occasionally, and then when I had to get
the police to remove him, the abuse was quite high.
I found over thirty sasha empty stash a bank and

(01:19:13):
two of them were full, and.

Speaker 10 (01:19:15):
So that.

Speaker 12 (01:19:17):
Basically meant that he was having me fan fed me
in on a regular basis, and he all of a
sudden it just went violent, possibly either through withdrawing, and
his behavior was just a ratic and I didn't know
what to do. He was a solo dad. He had

(01:19:41):
an eight year old girl with him and he was
very abusive towards her and I just didn't understand why,
and I had to get the police to remove him,
and he trashed my house in anger, and from what
I've heard, he's out living rough and since have taken

(01:20:04):
away his daughter's very sad.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
It's impossibly said, it's heartbreaking.

Speaker 12 (01:20:12):
Yeah, I think his idea of getting high on that stuff.
He liked music and I had I had a loud
sound system and he loved to put on his gangster
songs and he'd be singing to them. That's probably what

(01:20:32):
the drug was doing. Makes people do things that I
certainly wouldn't do. It makes some bulletproof. Yeah. Yeah, like
any other drug, it's a nasty one.

Speaker 13 (01:20:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
Well, and that's part of the problem is that, you know,
I'm not advocating for weed in this in this sense,
but it's like, you know, people who smoke weed and
tend to sit around me reasonably docile and and perhaps
get a bit hungry. And this is but the behaviors
that come with with methamphetamine end up having such a

(01:21:17):
negative effect on so many other people. And ohen your story,
you've given their perfect example. You know, an eight year
old girl shouldn't you know, shouldn't be in fear of
them about father or you know. And then the fact
that Stiff's had to stand there step in on that
occasion tells that story very clearly.

Speaker 4 (01:21:35):
It does and you know, we're not here to minimize
any drug use, but you're right. I mean, it is
possible to actually have a nuanced conversation about which drugs
are worse and which droukes are less worse. And if
you talk to eed doctors, they'll say alcohol first. Every
single time that fail, they will say meth second. Yes,
they won't say cannabis, and they generally won't say any

(01:21:55):
of the other drugs that you can think of here
in New Zealand because they tend to be reasonably low use,
low addiction potential, And I mean, yes, they can cause
extreme mental distress, but by and large it's alcohol.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
Followed by mess Ohen, thanks so much for your cool.
We're going to take a break and we come back
our final section on the show tonight. We've got a
bunch of calls to get through, so we'll do our
best back soon here on Another's Club.

Speaker 5 (01:22:19):
Nutts Club, Now on News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
It'd be okay, let's go back to the lines, Eshton,
good morning to you.

Speaker 6 (01:22:27):
Good morning. I suppose what Alington talked about it the
literally healthy comes with it and she held.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
Tell us, yeah, what's been your experience, Eshton.

Speaker 6 (01:22:44):
Hey, Ikea from Australia over there as a church boy,
and just just notice this the culture over there, and
then she doesn't discriminate anybody I'll work for, of course,
a pretty wealthy men. I suppose they all were all

(01:23:07):
played with it.

Speaker 10 (01:23:10):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:23:11):
I had a little plate. But I noticed I noticed
a lot of people we were starting to inject and salt.
I wasn't. I wasn't a thing that I really liked
at all. I just noticed a change and people we
needed to get a lot of people used to come

(01:23:31):
into our job just from nowhere randomly and just be
all hyped up and shirt off and both. But they
were full of beer. I mean by everybody said this
guy that came onto our site that he was all angry,
popping out the mouth. I told everybody that he was

(01:23:51):
just full of bear and I picked him up and
dumped them on his back and started crying a dozen
mother done getting the hiding and all that sort of stuff,
and ult he'd see look at him. But but what
I mentally sort of saying, these guys, they they really
play on things. They know they actually use the system
that actually where they actually achieve a lot of things

(01:24:14):
from being in mental health, from drug addiction. They're actually
really well looked after. My partner works for a lot
of these guys in Auckland and and to be honest,
it's said, you're not feel what these guys receive just

(01:24:34):
from the drug addiction. And you know, and this is
the roads that they walk down sometimes a lot of
these guys have got to suffer what the what choices
they make and us working guys and I'm an employer,
you know, the hard bed way out there for us
and these guys receive a lot of benefits and what

(01:24:55):
do they do back to the drug again, even for
me and ploying people. It's it's actually quite hard and
a lot of people being affected by the drug. Even
if they're off the drug, it still has an effect
on them for for quite a long time. It just
seems to be in the system for a lifetime. With
a lot of them. It changes the attitude, the mindset.

Speaker 9 (01:25:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
The employment one's interesting, Ashton, because I was speaking to
someone who operates in a reasonably small town and they're
an employer and they actually they were saying to me,
this is just earlier this year, and they said, you know,
the number one thing that we struggle with is you know,
it's it's being able to get a you know, young
young usually young men, but you know, trying to get
young guys to come and do work for us to

(01:25:41):
be able to have a clean drug drug test.

Speaker 6 (01:25:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's me that's the worst. I you know,
marijuana is actually the least overall, but I mean it's
the meath. Yeah, myth is just it's a I mean
I came from Aussie and I've seen towns that people
walk around like zombies. Well, everybody's on the same drug.

(01:26:08):
And when I came back from Australia, the methian feedamen
started coming into New Zealand and I had mates there.
We sort of started to dabble with it, which they
thought they were really on on with it. You know,
they knew what they were on about. And I see it. Actually,
you just need time on your side. And when you
have time on your side, you'll turn around and you

(01:26:29):
you would have lost everything, your family, your house, your cars,
you know, your pit bulls, your everything, and they did.
They lost everything before they actually realized.

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
That there was a losing game. Well that's that's the
other thing I was going to say, is that you
know that that's what we're starting to see here is
that same thing you're talking about, the you know, the
towns and people sort of looking a bit in zombiesque.
It's it's happening here. Yeah, it's happening. Okay, Ashton, thank
you so much for your call. I'm just gonna see
if I can get a few more in before we go. Jay,

(01:27:03):
good morning to you.

Speaker 17 (01:27:05):
Good morning guys. I think listening to here very moment
Sunday nights, I listening.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
Thank you.

Speaker 17 (01:27:12):
I absolutely hate the drug problem of met especially right
up above my virgin right now there's another session going on.
The lady up there is a really bad adding about thirty,
looks about fifty. She looks terrible in her eyes and
her face. And when she's coming there and advance and
the language is awful at the core place three or

(01:27:33):
four times in the last year, and you hear the
smashing invasion of people been kicked and punched, christ everything.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Do the cops come when you when they call, when
you give them a call.

Speaker 17 (01:27:44):
Ja, Yeah, yeah, most of the times the guys come around.
But she right out of the doors, let's her go
and smash it open. But also there's been drug dealing
of going on they've got on the pirates. A lot
of these Famali Jake is teening out her bike and
I stay. I have these parties at night and drinking

(01:28:04):
and drinks, and then in the daytime they they crash.
But that goes up and down, people coming up and
down the stairs, and that's the terrible and the thing is,
you know, I've started reaching out so that the last
couple of three or four months of I'll do things
and stuff. Because they don't have any money. They're spending

(01:28:25):
a lot of their money on the drugs and of
course it's not good for the health either. And as
someone coming and going, so I'm actually living with this thing.
But well, I want to say the route they put
the cans and pigeons. I've been serving my community over
forty years. And the root problem all this is, it's

(01:28:47):
a spiritual root problem. Like people are lost. I don't
know why they've come while they've been born, where they're
going and they die. It's fair and all kind of
dread going on, and they're just not happy in themselves
and therefore even it's looks negative and therefore they tend
to self medicate with the spouse of alcoholic weed.

Speaker 10 (01:29:05):
But this mess.

Speaker 17 (01:29:05):
Things got really really bad, especially around the lineage an area.
You know, I'm involved. I've been involved with hundreds of
people over many years in my monastry. It's the spiritual problem, mate,
that's cut for the whole thing. You can talk about
or kind of trying to get help and that. But
a lot of people don't want to get help. They
think they're going to get through it and they get

(01:29:26):
so addicted that what actually happens is that they these
drugs screw their brain up.

Speaker 12 (01:29:32):
There.

Speaker 17 (01:29:32):
They were literally doing it and they're not a lot
of zombies. As at last I said, this is a
huge customer our nation because for a country to increase
this GDP, you've got to have people to treat goods.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
And that's correct. Jay, you got up and I'm really sorry,
but I got to cut it there. Thank you very
much for all of your calls and your texts on
the show tonight. It's been an incredible conversation. Card McDonald,
thanks for being here with us. We'll see you again
next week here in the Nudders Club.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
This is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand on
air on Newstalks EDB for more from Used Talks, EDB
listen live on air or online, and keep our shows
with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio

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