June 21, 2025 • 41 mins
Inflation is raising house prices, and lowering its value at the same time.
For buyers, the number that ultimately matters is how much they pay for their property.
So how can they negotiate the best deal?
Tim Beveridge is joined by Property Apprentice Financial Adviser Debbie Roberts.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks by.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
And a very good afternoon. If you have just joined us, well,
welcome back, Welcome into the show. I'm Tim Beverage. This
is the Weekend Collective. Were you missed the panel with
the Irene Garden and Pete wolf Camp. You can check
it out wherever you get your podcasts. Just go to
or iHeartRadio news Talk, said dot Curtiz, look for the
Weekend Collective. But right now it's time for the One
Roof Radio Show. And my guest as well, she's well
(01:00):
known to this to you if you've been a regular
listener on the One Roof Radio show. She's a financial
advisor and her name is Debbie Robertson. She's with me now.
Good day, Debbie. How are you going?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I'm doing good? How are you doing good?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Did you hear a bit of a panic getting hi?
Didn't you have some traffic over the bridge and traffic jams?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And I didn't come from over the bridge. I came
this side of the bridge. That there was an accident
on the motorway. So my eta climb by the minute,
and I was thinking I'm going to be late.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Actually it is fascinating the old Google Maps, isn't It says,
so you're going to take seven minutes. I usually think,
I'll bet you I can find a way that will
get me there in six.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I was stuck, like, no exits, oh no, yeah, oh.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, it's good to have you here.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Now we're going to have a chat about well that
there's been a report out from the core Logic which
anticipates home values which will rise. The actual numbers will
rise about five percent this year, rise through a number
of suburbs. But the headline for it is to do
with the fact that, in real terms, basically house prices
(02:02):
and I take it as being well, here's the head
let's skip to the headline house prices price is to
be twenty percent lower in the twenty thirties than twenty
twenty one, which I take to mean it's not going
to keep up with inflation. So in terms of what
else has gone up, property is not going to match,
and so it's going to be down relatively. But on
(02:22):
top of that conversation, regardless of what the market's doing,
what matters to buyers and sellers is getting the price
you want to pay or the price you want to
sell for it, so I thought it might be. I
don't think we've ever talked about the art of negotiation.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
No, I don't think we have there.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And maybe it's more relevant now than it is. It
more relevant now than it has been because there was
a time in the market where the advice would be, well,
you just need to pay your best price because it's
a competitive market, a seller's market, and you need to
just come up with the best figure you can in
a way you go. Whereas how much room is there
(02:59):
in the real estate market for negotiation? Can some people
do better deals than others because they're better negotiators, They
don't show their hands straight away, And so we want
your calls on this as well. By the way, what's
the goal? Are there golden rules on negotiating on such
a big deal? Because property, you know, it's not like
(03:21):
negotiating for even a second hand cars might be a
big expense, but a property, we're talking hundreds of thousands,
if not millions of dollars. So are you a good negotiator?
If you've got something you'd like to pass on to
us and our audience about the keys of negotiating, The
key to good negotiation Debbie, what's your hot take on this?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I think negotiating is not just key in the current market,
it's literally everything.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Wow. So it is because it's not just a matter
of finding your best figure in a way you go, No.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
It's a buyer's market. This is literally your opportunity to
have the upper hand when you're negotiating on the purchase.
So if you don't know how to negotiate, you could
not only be leaving tens of thousands of dollars on
the table, you could be leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, So what is the biggest mist what's the easiest first,
biggest mistake that people can I know I've recategorized those,
but there'll be an obvious one. What's what's the big
no no that so many people would do?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Getting emotional?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Okay, So that means you mean giving all teary during
the negotiation, like just wanting too much.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
When someone falls in love with the house, all logic
goes out the window. They're like, I've got to have it.
And I'm guilty of this myself. You know, I quite
often tell our clients about how, you know, when we
negotiate for investment, properties, we negotiate like the thunder because
it's all about the numbers. But when we found the
house that we're in now out Forever Home, I walked
(04:52):
in through the front door and I said.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Sold, and.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
It's literally like Paul, my husband, he was horrified. He
was like, maybe you should go and have a look
at the rest of the house before you tell the
real estate agent how excited you are. And I was like, no,
this is it, this is the one. So yeah, Well,
getting emotional about it takes your power away in the negotiation.
So whenever you're negotiating, you need to be the person
(05:21):
in the position of power. And in a buyer's market,
the buyers have got the upper hand.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I guess the thing is that if you that's the thing.
I mean, we're talking about the house you want you're
going to live in. Probably the big even bigger than
that is Okay, allow yourself to be emotional because it's
probably inevitable, isn't it that don't tell the real estate
agent you love it. Yeah, because they I mean all
good real estate agents they're like they're like your best mate,
(05:50):
you know, and people on people, they have people, you know,
they will make you feel welcome and answer your questions
and smile on. But it's easy to forget that they're
acting for the seller. And I'm not demonizing me that No,
just don't tell them how much you love the property.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Look, I mean it helps helps with the negotiation, and
I mean, you know, if you can take as much
of the emotion out of that process, because at the
moment when you're looking at how many listings there are
on the property market, that you've got so much choice,
you know, so the buyers really are in a position
of power. They can pick and choose. You can let
(06:26):
the realistic agents know that you're looking at more than
one property and you're going to buy the one that
suits your needs best.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Actually, is it also about reminding yourself that it's a
bit like love, isn't it about relationships? You know, when
a teenager has their first heartbreak, the one bit of
advice they do not want to hear is like, don't
worries more fish in the sea, because they're like, but
that was the fish for me, and they never But
you do have to remind yourself that, Okay, imagine if
(06:55):
this house wasn't for sale, there will be another that
you'll fall in love with.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Absolutely And if you're looking for an investment property, it's
actually not about the proper itself. It's about the numbers.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So shop around would be the other one, wouldn't it,
Because if you're going to even if you fall in
love with a property, I would suggest that maybe it's
important to force yourself to go and look at a
bunch of others, because then that will give you some
older perspective where you are not so just like you know,
focused on the one love.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
When you have had a look at a lot of
different properties in the same area, it gives you a
much stronger perspective of what actual market values are. So
you'll start to see which properties have sold and how
much they've sold for, and so that reduces the risk
of you over paying when you're purchasing a property. But yeah,
when you're buying an investment, it's all about the numbers.
(07:50):
It's not just about paying less in market value.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So of course auctions a different thing. Of course, because
you've got an auction, you've just got to stick your
hand up until you don't stick your hand up.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Which even so, like this is the reason that auctions
are so good for sellers is because people get emotional
in an auction room, you know, So if you're go
into an auction, you've got to know your top dollar
before you put your hand up.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Can you actually, how often can you successfully preempt an
action by trying to negotiate? I mean, you want the house,
you don't want it to go to auction, but here
you are, you're a buyer. Is there a way where
you can intervene and basically make an offer and put
pressure on the seller to accept that without going to
auction by I don't know saying look, I don't know
how much interest you've got, but I have to make
(08:35):
an offer now and we have to resolve it in
the next couple of days because they've got another house
I'm looking at.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
There's Yeah, if the vendors are willing to accept pre
auction offers, then great. You know, you absolutely have got
the option to put in an offer before the auction day.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Actually, even if they're not prepared to accept a pre
auction offer, you can still do it though, can't you.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, you can try well. Advise market and real estate
agents will usually if if the vendor is not willing
to accept pre auction offers, that realistic agents will probably
tell you that there's you know, they're not going to
consider anything less than cash unconditional is the offer.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, but they would still have to present, aren't they.
It's still obligated to present your I'm just thinking in
terms of the hard board hardball buyers that I've spoken to,
it's like, doesn't matter, they're obligated to present your offer
to the seller.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Well, it depends. My understanding is that if the vendor
doesn't want to look at pre auction offers, if they
want everything to go to the auction day, then they're
the ones that have the final say on that.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
So yeah, okay, what's so what would your list if
you were looking to buy a property and you're not
doing it just based on the numbers, like, well, we're
prepared to pay this because this is how the number
stack up as an investment. So it's your forever home
or for the next however many years. What do you
tell yourself before you negotiate it, or do you get
to get someone else to do it for you.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Well, when we bought our home, pools sold. He was
so disappointed. But he looked at the real estate agent,
and the agent looked at him and said, so I
guess I'm negotiating with this one with you, then Paul,
and he said, yep, so.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
He already you already given the game away because he
knows that it doesn't matter. He could he could Her
husband's name is Paul, like, so it didn't matter because
the real estate agent would know that you want it,
and so Paul could say what he wants is like,
I saw your wife's reaction there, this reaction.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
But at the end of the day, the offer is
only as good as the offer. So you know, Paul
was pretty hard nosed with the negotiation, and we ended
up with a good price, a lot less than I
would have been prepared to pay for. The vendor accepted it.
So they were happy.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh right, how much? When we're talking about percentages, you
don't need to mention dollar amounts, But when within a
percentage of the purchase price that you would have been
prepared to pay, how much did it save by the
fact that you weren't involved.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Probably ten percent? Okay, Yeah, it might have even been
more than that. Actually I can't remember, to be honest,
it was it was a few years ago, but yeah,
I would say it was a good ten percent below. Okay,
what I would have been prepared to pay.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
We love your stories as well about you know I've got.
I'd probably have shared the story about buying our place,
which was a negotiation and it wasn't in competition with
anyone else. It was simply about finding a number because
I bought it from our landlord. And I'm not sure
if either of us was a great negotiator. I think
he was probably quite generous to me, and I was lucky,
I think, because we actually must will finish the story
(11:43):
because and then we'll go to a break and then
take your calls. So I tracked down my landlord because
we were deciding let's buy something, and I thought, well
maybe maybe, and it was a vain hope, maybe he'll
sell it to us. So I did a title search
behind the letting agents back. She joked with me, but
she said, you did me out of a commission, and
I said, damn right, I did. And I tracked him
(12:05):
down and we agreed to meet for a coffee because
I said, look, and I sat down and said, look
where we are you interested in selling your house and
we're not doing it because we want to invest in it.
We're interested because we already live there. We know the place,
we want to have a family, and we want to
settle down. It's not about being clever and trying to
buy something because we think it's a good deal. And
(12:25):
I went, I think I went to the loo. When
I came back and he had torn the receipt for
the coffee in half, and he said, why don't you
write down a number on your bit of paper and
I'll write down a number on mine, and we'll exchange
bits of paper. And so I wrote down a very
optimistic price, and I mean it was I thought it
(12:45):
was still a fair price, but I was aware that
if he'd really wanted to play hardball, and he wrote
down a number, and we basically when he handed his
number over, it was what I would have paid for
it at a stretch. And so I just said, how
about we split the difference. And a day later he
got in touch and said, after seeing a Leonard Cohen
come and having an epiphany, and he said, you know
(13:07):
what you want to have your family there, give me
another five grand and it's yours. And so it is
slightly We met almost in the middle. But that's all
I knew about negotiation was you write down a number
and I'll write down one. But I actually thought that
was I think both of us were happy.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
So had he already listed with the real list? Oh
so I see, okay, I was going to say, because
if you'd seen as if you'd seen the realisted agent's advertisement,
he still would have had to pay the Realisted agent
the commission.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Oh no, no. I tracked him down and asked if
he would be prepared to sell it to me. So
it wasn't on the table until he went, oh, actually, funny,
I've been thinking about that. So he probably in the
back of his mind was thinking, well, I'm saving myself
a few percent. Yeah, therefore that works for me and bingo.
But the bit of.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Paper that was quite nice in old school.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
But that seems to me to be not. I mean,
that's just a very simple way of of doing a contract.
I mean I do have one other story. It's not mine,
but an old flatmate of mine in university days. He
wanted to buy the flat we were in, and he
asked the landlord, you know, if he would be interested
(14:19):
to sell. He wrote down a number and the landlord,
I'll sell it to you for that, And he said,
We'll tell you what. Let's just and he drew it
on a bit of a four, saying I agree to
sell you this property for this pace, and they signed it.
And then later on the landlord tried to get out
of it, and he's like, I've got a written contract
and that was done as well. But you know, some
good stories. I've got lots of stories, some of them
(14:39):
are true.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I'm really looking forward to hearing some of the stories
fro about it from the listeners, because I'm sure that
people have got good stories about deals that they oh,
they've got a good deal on, or lessons they learned
from negotiations that didn't go well. Because you know, it
works both ways. You'll always learn from the mistakes that
you make.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And if you are a good negotiator, tell us what
is the secret of a good negotiation from your point
of view? And as you say Debbie's first rule, don't
get emotional about the property. Added to that, if you
are emotional, do not tell the real estate agent about
how much you love it. Sold. Twenty two past four,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number text
(15:17):
nine two nine two. We'll be back in just a moment.
Twenty two past four. I think I gave the time,
didn't I back in the mine and welcome back to
the Weekend Collective. But this is the Wonery Radio Show.
My guest is Debbie Roberts. We're talking about the art
of negotiation. By the way, I've I've been picking Debbie's
(15:40):
brain a bit more about when she brought her her place,
and if we've got time, she's gonna have to fill
You're gonna have to fill us more on that story
because it's as quite actually amusing about how deals get done.
And there's more to the story that you heard from Debbie,
but we want to hear yours as well. The art
of a good negotiation. Diane, Hello, Hi, how are you
going good? Thanks?
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Yeah, Well, my story is a couple of years ago.
My husband's health wasn't fantastic. We had to leave a
three devil home. Otherwise it was like death or move,
no brainer. And I've found an apartment really want to
move into down Bremer's Corner. Logan apartments are great. And
then we engage a really young red estate agent and
(16:23):
it came down to trust and commitment. He just told
us on the level where the Michael was at. We
got our house, you know, like a builder's report, and
I committed to everything on the list that the builders,
you know, the report said had to be fixed, which
(16:44):
we did, which took all our background money. And he
held his commitment too, and he got us within about
one thousand dollars of my husband's high amount he wanted,
you know, And we didn't go to auction because we
had already had already committed to buy the apartment because
(17:06):
that was it that we're moving to. Totally focused. And
the guy, his name's Adam from Harcourt. God, he was
just incredible that no trustworthy, just so trustworthy, you know,
and you need to feel that trust from your real
estate agent.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Absolutely, it's you know, it's oh it is.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
And also it was it was about our life going
forward as the sixties, plus couple my husbands in the seventies.
And he was shocked that I'd give up our family
home and the garden that I tended and growing treason
for the last twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Oh yeah, him, lots of brain me. Yeah, there's lots
of emotion in that sort of thing, in those decisions,
isn't there How much did how much did you want
the sellers to know? Because it's there's two sides to
letting them to if you needed to sell to buy
something else, that is, there's two sides to that. One.
(18:11):
It's a hook for a buyer that they think they're
going to be able to do a deal, but it's
it's also giving something away, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
I mean, did you let cards do you?
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Well?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Well, that's why I was wondering if the real estate
is it's because sometimes a real estate ad will say
sellers have bought already, and so there's pressure to do
a deal because okay, it's giving away a position, but
it's also enticing people to go all and it's not always.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
A bad thing either. You know, if the vendor is
genuinely motivated to sell because they've got a deadline looming,
then I think sometimes the real estate agent is working
in their best interests by letting people know, hey, this
is a property that needs to get sold. Come play bored.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
Yeah, Well the indication was we did a deadline sales.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Excellent, Yeah, you know, to make it.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
And he kept us totally up up to speed with
what was happening. And he had two maybe three very
viable people and one family in particular wants the property
and so we brought it forward or the date forward.
And also the people we were buying off at Logan Apartments,
(19:30):
they allowed us to do a lower deposit because they
knew we were committed, so they actually helped us as well.
So it's just people having good old fashioned trust and
belief and you know, you're you're good as your words
and your signature.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So long as your trust as well placed. That's the
main thing. Hey, thanks Diane good On here. Thanks thanks
for that. If I was going to put on my
cynical hat though, is that I mean, it's how much
how much do you tell your real estate agent, because
you don't if you're a seller. I mean they get
their commission when they sell if they can convince you
to accept a lower price. I mean it's not always.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Realisted agents have to work in the best interest of
the vendor, the person that's selling the house. But yeah,
you're right, it does come down to getting a sale
across the line. But I think a good realistic agent
is worth their weight in gold, so, you know, and
a realistic agent that you've got that trust with and
that you really do feel like they've got your best
(20:33):
interests at heart, that's a relationship worth nurturing.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Excellent. Right, let's take some more calls Ross Hello, his.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
You've got to watch some of these bloody land agents
when it comes to auctions, because I've had an occasion
where it said prior offers welcome or something like that,
and I thought, yeah, I could do with this place.
So I've called the agent. They've come and talked to
me and said, I said about this prior office that
(21:05):
it's good in loves my house then and he said no,
he said, what we do is use your offer as
the starting base of the auction.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
If your if your auction, yeah, if your offer prior
to an auction gets accepted, that is the standard rule
is that you know, it does go to auction and
your offer that the that the vendor accepted becomes the
the minimum. Like that's the starting bid, but it's also
the reserve.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
So that means a lot of people, a lot of
people don't know that. They don't get told that no exactly,
And I think it's just honest to be honest, Well, it's.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
It's quite an open system, so you know, it's it's
an action in my opinion, and I'm not a realistic agent,
but an auction is the best way to get market value,
you know, because it's an open market, it's an open process,
and if your offer is accepted prior to the auction,
there might not be any other bid is. So that's
why when you're making a pre auction off you've got
(22:03):
to make sure you're happy with that it and take
your chances.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
On the day.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
The place we did buy needed it, we better work
down to it nice home and they had a figure
on it. Off is over, so off. I offer them
less than that and said I'll take care of all
the bits of work when you done excellent and they said, yep,
that'll do us. It was a deceased to state.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And so did you get it at the auction as well?
Speaker 6 (22:34):
It was your No, no, no it wasn't. It wasn't
an auction.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Oh I thought you thead of the action, No, that
this wasn't.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
Going to be auction, the one I didn't go with
because of the agent's rules with you. I didn't go.
I didn't bloody go there. I thought, no, I can't
take it.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I mean that it's it's heightened stuff, isn't it. Because
it's easy for us to city are chatting about property deals.
But when you're in the hot seat of wanting to
buy or sell your dream home or whatever, it's really
high stakes. So it's so difficult to put to to
rehearse that stuff in a way, isn't it, Debbie.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
It is because emotions get in the way, you know.
And I think it's important to remember that not everyone
has to sell. Some people are motivated to sell for
a bunch of different reasons, but they don't necessarily have
to sell. And having said that, some people who've got
their houses on the market, price isn't their main priority.
(23:29):
So for some people who've maybe owned their house for
thirty years, you know, they might be mortgage free, for example,
they might have other reasons for wanting to sell it,
so they're not necessarily after getting the top dollar. They
just want to get the deal done so they can
move on.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Actually, the thing is, in my landlord's case, you sold
to me, I think one of the things because it
wasn't like he had an epiphany or anything. But he
liked the idea that we went buying it as investors,
he said, And he even said to me, he said, look,
you know, you guys want to have children and raise
your kids. Here look, give me this and we'll call
it a deal. And I think I call it a
(24:06):
win women in a way. He was happy and we
were happy. But I mean, I wonder if people are
sometimes sellers motivated by thinking, oh, look, this is such
a lovely family, the house that we've poured so much
love into, you know, we've cultivated the gardens and things.
Now it's going to be inhabited by this lovely family.
We'd rather sell it to them than the person who's
probably gonna, I don't know, just flick it on in
(24:30):
six months. Is there ever that do you think there
was always money, money, money, money, money.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
I think no, I think I think money is not
the most important factor for a lot of people that
are selling.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
So yeah, for some people, absolutely, but it's not for everyone.
I mean, like, you know, I can think of so
many different examples of where people have accepted a lower
price because you know, the settlement didn't suit.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Them, or well there's the tender of it, the tenders everything.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah, there's so much that you can negotiate on when
it comes to property. It's more than just price and
settlement date.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah. Right, let's take another call where we're up to
fill gooday.
Speaker 6 (25:08):
Good, how are you good?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Things?
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Yeah, I think that might have been the case. When
I bought my house, the people that sold it to
me kind of sold it to me because I was
first home buyer and it wasn't so much about the
money for them. They just kind of thought a bit
of sympathy on me. Maybe, But I haven't got much
advice on negotiations. When when I first saw the place,
(25:33):
I got the field that, yeah, I like this, this
is me And the land agent was brilliant, my land
agent that showed me the place. But I watch a
lot of programs like location and Location and stuff like that,
and I don't know, but seems to one of the
things I would say is that because I only when
I bought my house, I knew it was a good
(25:55):
deal and I was getting it cheap in a good
street and a good neighborhood because it's an older house
book in the fifties. So they gave me the price
and I put in, just to be cheeky, about a
two thousand dollars year no counter off, and they said no.
And then I said, right, I'm going to lose this
by mark around. So I gave him the asking price.
But on that location, location and programs like that, they
seem to say things like always go and don't go
(26:18):
in at your best price, which probably makes common sense,
or you know what you can ultimately afford, but going
a bit lower in a bit well maybe a bit cheeky,
because you can always go up and you can't go down.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Indeed, you can't change your mind once you put your yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
And if you don't ask, if you don't ask, you
don't get. You know, that's something that we say to
our clients all the time, is what's nothing wrong with
putting in a lower offer. Worst that's going to happen
is that they'll say.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
No, hey, just before we go to the break, we've
got some more callers there. But I did want you
to fill in the gaps a little bit about your
nego shash. It's quite funny. You had to negotiate with
your husband in a way about what about trusting him
to do the deal, and you had to agree your
number first before he went to the off.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
No, I didn't agree on the number, So Paul and
I both wrote down and figure that we were happy
with what would be our top dollar that we'd be
prepared to pay and my top dollar was considerably higher
than yours. And he looked at me and than his.
And he looked at me and he said, so you
need to understand that if we can't, if you if
(27:27):
I'm going to negotiate this, you need to trust me
to do it. And I said, we of course I do.
And he said, well, if we can't get it for
the price like below my top dollar, you need to
be prepared to walk away. And I said fine, and
we did. We did walk away from it because the
vendor didn't accept this Chris to start with, but we
(27:49):
ended up doing a deal about three months later. The
same vendor.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Fine, I e. Not fine, but you better do this deal, buddy.
So luckily for him it ended happily.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, well eventually, yeah, because the vendors weren't able to
sell it to anyone else.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
And so they turned you down.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
They tuned us down.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
And then a few a few months later, the realistic
agent called us up and said, they want to know
you're still in the market.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
What was your emotional journey at that point.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
No, no, no, not that, not when you got it,
but oh when we missed it failed so were you scuttered? Okay?
And how was how were you with? You know, with
your negotiating husband was the doctor?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Luckily for her, I loved her more than the house.
No contestant.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
It's a love story in the end, isn't it. Twenty Look,
we want your stories on negotiating twenty two to five
Newstalk said, b they didn't know jes. Let's welcome back
to the Weekend Collective with this one Refradia show. My
(29:00):
guest is Debbie Roberts probably apprentice she's with. You might
have recognized her voice from some of the promotions she
does on the station Property Apprentice, Dot Curtt and Zed.
We're talking about the art of negotiation and your stories
as well. What's the secret to getting the deal done?
And look, I guess, as they say, if it's a
win win in the end, you're happy, they're happy. Hopefully
you're both right. And let's take your calls in your
(29:23):
negotiation stories as well. Helga, Hello, good thanks, just do
my phone up.
Speaker 7 (29:31):
Well, my situations a bit but different to other people's.
I inherited an old house and land and pons be
with pontsab Land is very valuable. That was in twenty
and sixteen and it sold for a million, but the
house was built in eighteen sixty five. That was an auction,
but I wouldn't recommend auctions. We then built a brand
(29:53):
new house in Walk Class A Golden Homes that's quite
through the sun was the title again, some of the tile,
everything was beautiful. And then my son got married, so
we decided to say all the house again. And what
I found out about auctions, if no one turns up
to the auction, you've paid the agency, which I didn't
(30:14):
think was right. So we sold by negotiation and that
house with Ruth over a billion, but we went too
high and the land agent suggested a bit lower and
we sold it. But I wouldn't recommend auctions because you
might be paying them for a fee and no one
turns up.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
The market, doesn't it you pay the auctioneer's fee.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Yeah, which it's bad enough when you're paying out all
the loyal fees and everything, you know, and not everyone
has a million dollar house to sell. I'm only saying
that because to help other people who don't have the money,
just be careful and lying the agents. Am I allowed
to mention agent stable not what in.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
A positive way, because we don't want anyone. If you've
got a shout out.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
Yeah that's all right, Yeah, hard thoughts and walk and
hard courts and Mounttower, but excellence. I'm going to give
you some other advice. And people bet them betted for
a good dumb agent.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Well you absolutely ask around if as well. Yeah, good
good stuff. I'll go, Well, thanks for your call. Actually
there was a there's a real estate agent and my
neck of the words. I've mentioned her before actually, but
she has a she put a book at the best marketing.
She has a booklet she puts out which has the
contact numbers of a range of trades people for any
(31:37):
job you could ever possibly want on your property. Nice
and in fact, I even i'd lost it and I
couldn't remember where it was, and somebody told me and
I went around and said can I have a few,
and she and I met her and she was like absolutely,
and I think she'd ranged to drop them off. But
I was thinking that was such a good marketing device
because every time you go I need a plumber, try
this one. You go to the same booklet and there's
the real estate agent there.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Now we need to just before I mean time's flying.
We've barely talked about the market in that core Logic
study but study not sorry, the core Logic data analysis
where it says that in real terms, house prices are
going to be twenty percent lower in the thirties than
in twenty twenty one. And these are all the headlines
(32:20):
that don't help it to change from being a buyer's market.
We've had the CVS where nine percent drop on average,
and headlines that property prices aren't going to be too
flash in terms of where inflation's going, where property prices
are going exactly? What's the context that we Is there
any any context we're missing?
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Well, my thoughts on this is that anytime someone's making
predictions about what might happen is literally crystal ball gazing.
No one knows, no one knows what's going to happen.
What we can do is make predictions based on historic events,
you know. So, I mean I would be and at
(32:57):
the end of the day, no one is expecting house
prices to drop by twenty percent. But I tell you what,
the number of people that are commented on social media
that just read the headline and didn't read the article,
it's astounding. So the more that people think house prices
are going to drop by twenty percent.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Not in real numbers, No, not in real numbers, but
that's what.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
The headline looks like, and that's what people see. That's
what grabs their attention. So I think the more that
people are out there thinking that, and the more that
people are thinking, gosh, our house has dropped in value
because the cvs are a lot lower than they were
last time, all of that puts uncertainty into the market,
and that makes it more of a buyer's market, potentially
(33:40):
for a little bit longer. I was talking to you
in the break, I think the current market conditions for
anyone who's looking at purchasing, these are the best market
conditions that we've seen for over a decade. Last time
we were in a really true buyers market was just
after the global financial crisis.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
What year was that, in reminding you, two thousand and.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Seven, two thousand and eight, So it's been a long time.
And when we look back through previous property cycles, we
tend to get the peak of the boom about every
ten years. You know, the last boom was a lot
longer than that. So if we go back to averages,
then it could be another ten years before we see
(34:19):
market conditions like this again. And I reckon twelve months
from now, two years from now, people will be going,
oh god, I wish we'd bought in twenty twenty five.
And this is me who's not selling properties.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah. No, No, you're in the business of helping people
buy them, don't you.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Yeah, and it's a great time to be buying.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I about this text here with respect. Your advice is
putting a lot of pressure on first time buyers. If
they it, If they find a house they can afford
and they like, and they hold it for ten years,
it won't matter if they could have paid less for it.
I don't quite agree with that.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
No, I don't agree with that either. And the reason
I don't agree with that is because capital growth is
not important to first time buyers, but getting the lowest
mortgage possible is really important. And if you can make
your money when you buy, you've created your own capital growth,
and even better, if you can buy a property that's
got value add potential, you're doing even better when there's
(35:12):
no capital growth.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
So yeah, that's not actually right. Yeah, because and of course,
if you've got another fifty grand on your mortgage, and
it takes you longer to pay that mortgage. If you've
got more interesting, you've got more interest, you're paying on
that other amount that you could have saved. So actually, yes,
it does matter. I would say, maybe she's talking about
if you buy house and then you fleck it on
and buy another sort of thing, And I don't know
whether there's a different context where it might not be
so tragic. Is there I'm not sure. Well, in other words,
(35:38):
if you buy a house and you live in and
that set, whereas if you buy a house and you
eventually trade up a few years later in another one,
is there a context where maybe what you paid first
time round, isn't it so relevant?
Speaker 3 (35:48):
I think you know, property is a long term strategy
unless you're looking at flipping properties, which is a totally
different ballgame. Like that's a business. You're in the business
of buying and selling houses stuff. You're flipping properties, so
you've got to take gest and tax on profit into
account for that. Is well, But generally speaking, homeowners move
on average about once every seven years. Property investors sell
(36:12):
their rental properties on average about once every ten years.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Right, you've got some tip. You had some tips because
We've spent so much time bountering about great, But are
there some other I mean, you said don't get emotional,
and if you are emotional, don't tell the real estate
your agent your emotional if you're buying. What's another one?
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Absolutely? I think be patient, look for value, add potential,
don't be scared of making a lower offer, because negotiations
the key.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I think that that's a big one, because if you
are a people pleaser and you've got a real estate agent,
it's like, oh, you know, I don't think if you
don't try and please the real estate agent, just come
up with a number and saying here's my number, and
just grit your teeth and look, practice the art of
the dead pandemic.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yes, and look, the more you know about what's happening
in that area, the stronger you're negotiation stance will be.
You know, the more you know about what properties have
been selling for, that's that puts you in a stronger position.
So yeah, just I think buy for equity and or
cash flow. If you're looking for an investment property at
the moment, you're not buying for capital growth because there's
(37:23):
so all okay, right.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
We'll take a moment it's ten minutes to five news talk,
said b.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
The one roof property of the week on the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yes, the one roof property of the week is it's
a beauty actually, but not in the way you might think.
It's almost like your traditional beach batch. But I'll give
you the address where you can find it on the
one roof for website one roof dot curtain in set
is one Rosa Lee R s A L I E.
Bay Road, Great Barrier Island and the Hurricane Golf. Five bedrooms,
two bathrooms, one one car garage four off street and
(38:00):
it was it's it's one point three million dollars, which
is actually quite quite a whack. But it's a classic
family home breming with charm and comfort, featuring a generous
living areas ideal for family gatherings, room to relaxing and
detain fantastic views. Although when I look at it, it's
(38:23):
apparently built quite recently, but it certainly has a certain
rustic charm to it, like it's an old like it's
an old sort of beach batch. In fact, what do
you make of it?
Speaker 6 (38:34):
Do you?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
The photos I'm seeing of it looked quite Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
It's quite cute. That's the sort of place that you
could potentially rent out by short term rental as well,
if you have it as a holiday home and rent
it out for short term when you weren't using it.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Absolutely amazing views, isn't it. So you go and check
that out. It's I think some of the information I've
got on this might not be quite right because it
says talks about how when it was recently built. In fact,
we might have might have a slightly wrong description for
that one there, But go and check out the photos.
Of course it is quite a spectacular location and a
(39:09):
real sort of traditional looking beach batch. But yeah, five bedrooms,
two bathrooms, Yeah, there we go. So yours for one
point three roughly? Would you say sold? You walk in
and you go sold?
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Or maybe if you had an extra we've got a
holiday home we love, so yeah, we're good.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
What sort of style of what sort of style of
architecture appeals to you that you know? For instance, we've
heard your story about walking and going sold?
Speaker 7 (39:37):
What was it?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Was it? Because it was modern all sort of.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Well, it had some value add potential. The biggest value
add potential was the big backyard. Because I looked at
that and I saw an outdoor kitchen in a swimming pool,
I thought done. Yeah, I like, I like modern contemporary.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
So yeah, I made a mistake with the description that
I should correct there by the way that there was
a main dwelling which is a classic family home and
that's that says Bremming with charming. Come. But there's also
a second dwelling which is the designer beach pad crafted
for modern laid back living. So that's why it's a
bit more expensive than I thought for the initial property
that I was looking at. But anyway, so people want
(40:17):
to catch up with the work you're doing, they can
go to Property Apprentice dot co dot nz and you've
got regular not workshops, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
We do free online events every week, so yeah, people
can register for one of those on our website and
come ask me as many questions as you want to
excellent two hours to talk about stuff.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
And yeah, and learn a few lessons about negotiation and
do not say sold when you walk on the door.
I think, just what we've learned today. Hey, Debbi, great
to catch up with you.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Thanks for having so much.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
We'll be back with the parents quite us next. Nathan
Wallace talking about dealing with teenagers anxiety and outbursts. When
do you let them write it out? Or when do
you take yourself off for a bit of quiet time?
Will be taking your cause? Oh wait? One hundred eighty
ten eighty in text on nine two nine tools.
Speaker 7 (41:03):
Surely all I really need is a little
Speaker 1 (41:14):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks it Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks by.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
And a very good afternoon. If you have just joined us, well,
welcome back, Welcome into the show. I'm Tim Beverage. This
is the Weekend Collective. Were you missed the panel with
the Irene Garden and Pete wolf Camp. You can check
it out wherever you get your podcasts. Just go to
or iHeartRadio news Talk, said dot Curtiz, look for the
Weekend Collective. But right now it's time for the One
Roof Radio Show. And my guest as well, she's well
(01:00):
known to this to you if you've been a regular
listener on the One Roof Radio show. She's a financial
advisor and her name is Debbie Robertson. She's with me now.
Good day, Debbie. How are you going?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I'm doing good? How are you doing good?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Did you hear a bit of a panic getting hi?
Didn't you have some traffic over the bridge and traffic jams?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And I didn't come from over the bridge. I came
this side of the bridge. That there was an accident
on the motorway. So my eta climb by the minute,
and I was thinking I'm going to be late.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Actually it is fascinating the old Google Maps, isn't It says,
so you're going to take seven minutes. I usually think,
I'll bet you I can find a way that will
get me there in six.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I was stuck, like, no exits, oh no, yeah, oh.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, it's good to have you here.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Now we're going to have a chat about well that
there's been a report out from the core Logic which
anticipates home values which will rise. The actual numbers will
rise about five percent this year, rise through a number
of suburbs. But the headline for it is to do
with the fact that, in real terms, basically house prices
(02:02):
and I take it as being well, here's the head
let's skip to the headline house prices price is to
be twenty percent lower in the twenty thirties than twenty
twenty one, which I take to mean it's not going
to keep up with inflation. So in terms of what
else has gone up, property is not going to match,
and so it's going to be down relatively. But on
(02:22):
top of that conversation, regardless of what the market's doing,
what matters to buyers and sellers is getting the price
you want to pay or the price you want to
sell for it, so I thought it might be. I
don't think we've ever talked about the art of negotiation.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
No, I don't think we have there.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And maybe it's more relevant now than it is. It
more relevant now than it has been because there was
a time in the market where the advice would be, well,
you just need to pay your best price because it's
a competitive market, a seller's market, and you need to
just come up with the best figure you can in
a way you go. Whereas how much room is there
(02:59):
in the real estate market for negotiation? Can some people
do better deals than others because they're better negotiators, They
don't show their hands straight away, And so we want
your calls on this as well. By the way, what's
the goal? Are there golden rules on negotiating on such
a big deal? Because property, you know, it's not like
(03:21):
negotiating for even a second hand cars might be a
big expense, but a property, we're talking hundreds of thousands,
if not millions of dollars. So are you a good negotiator?
If you've got something you'd like to pass on to
us and our audience about the keys of negotiating, The
key to good negotiation Debbie, what's your hot take on this?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I think negotiating is not just key in the current market,
it's literally everything.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Wow. So it is because it's not just a matter
of finding your best figure in a way you go, No.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
It's a buyer's market. This is literally your opportunity to
have the upper hand when you're negotiating on the purchase.
So if you don't know how to negotiate, you could
not only be leaving tens of thousands of dollars on
the table, you could be leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, So what is the biggest mist what's the easiest first,
biggest mistake that people can I know I've recategorized those,
but there'll be an obvious one. What's what's the big
no no that so many people would do?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Getting emotional?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Okay, So that means you mean giving all teary during
the negotiation, like just wanting too much.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
When someone falls in love with the house, all logic
goes out the window. They're like, I've got to have it.
And I'm guilty of this myself. You know, I quite
often tell our clients about how, you know, when we
negotiate for investment, properties, we negotiate like the thunder because
it's all about the numbers. But when we found the
house that we're in now out Forever Home, I walked
(04:52):
in through the front door and I said.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Sold, and.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
It's literally like Paul, my husband, he was horrified. He
was like, maybe you should go and have a look
at the rest of the house before you tell the
real estate agent how excited you are. And I was like, no,
this is it, this is the one. So yeah, Well,
getting emotional about it takes your power away in the negotiation.
So whenever you're negotiating, you need to be the person
(05:21):
in the position of power. And in a buyer's market,
the buyers have got the upper hand.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I guess the thing is that if you that's the thing.
I mean, we're talking about the house you want you're
going to live in. Probably the big even bigger than
that is Okay, allow yourself to be emotional because it's
probably inevitable, isn't it that don't tell the real estate
agent you love it. Yeah, because they I mean all
good real estate agents they're like they're like your best mate,
(05:50):
you know, and people on people, they have people, you know,
they will make you feel welcome and answer your questions
and smile on. But it's easy to forget that they're
acting for the seller. And I'm not demonizing me that No,
just don't tell them how much you love the property.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Look, I mean it helps helps with the negotiation, and
I mean, you know, if you can take as much
of the emotion out of that process, because at the
moment when you're looking at how many listings there are
on the property market, that you've got so much choice,
you know, so the buyers really are in a position
of power. They can pick and choose. You can let
(06:26):
the realistic agents know that you're looking at more than
one property and you're going to buy the one that
suits your needs best.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Actually, is it also about reminding yourself that it's a
bit like love, isn't it about relationships? You know, when
a teenager has their first heartbreak, the one bit of
advice they do not want to hear is like, don't
worries more fish in the sea, because they're like, but
that was the fish for me, and they never But
you do have to remind yourself that, Okay, imagine if
(06:55):
this house wasn't for sale, there will be another that
you'll fall in love with.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Absolutely And if you're looking for an investment property, it's
actually not about the proper itself. It's about the numbers.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So shop around would be the other one, wouldn't it,
Because if you're going to even if you fall in
love with a property, I would suggest that maybe it's
important to force yourself to go and look at a
bunch of others, because then that will give you some
older perspective where you are not so just like you know,
focused on the one love.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
When you have had a look at a lot of
different properties in the same area, it gives you a
much stronger perspective of what actual market values are. So
you'll start to see which properties have sold and how
much they've sold for, and so that reduces the risk
of you over paying when you're purchasing a property. But yeah,
when you're buying an investment, it's all about the numbers.
(07:50):
It's not just about paying less in market value.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So of course auctions a different thing. Of course, because
you've got an auction, you've just got to stick your
hand up until you don't stick your hand up.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Which even so, like this is the reason that auctions
are so good for sellers is because people get emotional
in an auction room, you know, So if you're go
into an auction, you've got to know your top dollar
before you put your hand up.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Can you actually, how often can you successfully preempt an
action by trying to negotiate? I mean, you want the house,
you don't want it to go to auction, but here
you are, you're a buyer. Is there a way where
you can intervene and basically make an offer and put
pressure on the seller to accept that without going to
auction by I don't know saying look, I don't know
how much interest you've got, but I have to make
(08:35):
an offer now and we have to resolve it in
the next couple of days because they've got another house
I'm looking at.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
There's Yeah, if the vendors are willing to accept pre
auction offers, then great. You know, you absolutely have got
the option to put in an offer before the auction day.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Actually, even if they're not prepared to accept a pre
auction offer, you can still do it though, can't you.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, you can try well. Advise market and real estate
agents will usually if if the vendor is not willing
to accept pre auction offers, that realistic agents will probably
tell you that there's you know, they're not going to
consider anything less than cash unconditional is the offer.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, but they would still have to present, aren't they.
It's still obligated to present your I'm just thinking in
terms of the hard board hardball buyers that I've spoken to,
it's like, doesn't matter, they're obligated to present your offer
to the seller.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Well, it depends. My understanding is that if the vendor
doesn't want to look at pre auction offers, if they
want everything to go to the auction day, then they're
the ones that have the final say on that.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
So yeah, okay, what's so what would your list if
you were looking to buy a property and you're not
doing it just based on the numbers, like, well, we're
prepared to pay this because this is how the number
stack up as an investment. So it's your forever home
or for the next however many years. What do you
tell yourself before you negotiate it, or do you get
to get someone else to do it for you.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Well, when we bought our home, pools sold. He was
so disappointed. But he looked at the real estate agent,
and the agent looked at him and said, so I
guess I'm negotiating with this one with you, then Paul,
and he said, yep, so.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
He already you already given the game away because he
knows that it doesn't matter. He could he could Her
husband's name is Paul, like, so it didn't matter because
the real estate agent would know that you want it,
and so Paul could say what he wants is like,
I saw your wife's reaction there, this reaction.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
But at the end of the day, the offer is
only as good as the offer. So you know, Paul
was pretty hard nosed with the negotiation, and we ended
up with a good price, a lot less than I
would have been prepared to pay for. The vendor accepted it.
So they were happy.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh right, how much? When we're talking about percentages, you
don't need to mention dollar amounts, But when within a
percentage of the purchase price that you would have been
prepared to pay, how much did it save by the
fact that you weren't involved.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Probably ten percent? Okay, Yeah, it might have even been
more than that. Actually I can't remember, to be honest,
it was it was a few years ago, but yeah,
I would say it was a good ten percent below. Okay,
what I would have been prepared to pay.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
We love your stories as well about you know I've got.
I'd probably have shared the story about buying our place,
which was a negotiation and it wasn't in competition with
anyone else. It was simply about finding a number because
I bought it from our landlord. And I'm not sure
if either of us was a great negotiator. I think
he was probably quite generous to me, and I was lucky,
I think, because we actually must will finish the story
(11:43):
because and then we'll go to a break and then
take your calls. So I tracked down my landlord because
we were deciding let's buy something, and I thought, well
maybe maybe, and it was a vain hope, maybe he'll
sell it to us. So I did a title search
behind the letting agents back. She joked with me, but
she said, you did me out of a commission, and
I said, damn right, I did. And I tracked him
(12:05):
down and we agreed to meet for a coffee because
I said, look, and I sat down and said, look
where we are you interested in selling your house and
we're not doing it because we want to invest in it.
We're interested because we already live there. We know the place,
we want to have a family, and we want to
settle down. It's not about being clever and trying to
buy something because we think it's a good deal. And
(12:25):
I went, I think I went to the loo. When
I came back and he had torn the receipt for
the coffee in half, and he said, why don't you
write down a number on your bit of paper and
I'll write down a number on mine, and we'll exchange
bits of paper. And so I wrote down a very
optimistic price, and I mean it was I thought it
(12:45):
was still a fair price, but I was aware that
if he'd really wanted to play hardball, and he wrote
down a number, and we basically when he handed his
number over, it was what I would have paid for
it at a stretch. And so I just said, how
about we split the difference. And a day later he
got in touch and said, after seeing a Leonard Cohen
come and having an epiphany, and he said, you know
(13:07):
what you want to have your family there, give me
another five grand and it's yours. And so it is
slightly We met almost in the middle. But that's all
I knew about negotiation was you write down a number
and I'll write down one. But I actually thought that
was I think both of us were happy.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
So had he already listed with the real list? Oh
so I see, okay, I was going to say, because
if you'd seen as if you'd seen the realisted agent's advertisement,
he still would have had to pay the Realisted agent
the commission.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Oh no, no. I tracked him down and asked if
he would be prepared to sell it to me. So
it wasn't on the table until he went, oh, actually, funny,
I've been thinking about that. So he probably in the
back of his mind was thinking, well, I'm saving myself
a few percent. Yeah, therefore that works for me and bingo.
But the bit of.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Paper that was quite nice in old school.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
But that seems to me to be not. I mean,
that's just a very simple way of of doing a contract.
I mean I do have one other story. It's not mine,
but an old flatmate of mine in university days. He
wanted to buy the flat we were in, and he
asked the landlord, you know, if he would be interested
(14:19):
to sell. He wrote down a number and the landlord,
I'll sell it to you for that, And he said,
We'll tell you what. Let's just and he drew it
on a bit of a four, saying I agree to
sell you this property for this pace, and they signed it.
And then later on the landlord tried to get out
of it, and he's like, I've got a written contract
and that was done as well. But you know, some
good stories. I've got lots of stories, some of them
(14:39):
are true.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I'm really looking forward to hearing some of the stories
fro about it from the listeners, because I'm sure that
people have got good stories about deals that they oh,
they've got a good deal on, or lessons they learned
from negotiations that didn't go well. Because you know, it
works both ways. You'll always learn from the mistakes that
you make.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And if you are a good negotiator, tell us what
is the secret of a good negotiation from your point
of view? And as you say Debbie's first rule, don't
get emotional about the property. Added to that, if you
are emotional, do not tell the real estate agent about
how much you love it. Sold. Twenty two past four,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number text
(15:17):
nine two nine two. We'll be back in just a moment.
Twenty two past four. I think I gave the time,
didn't I back in the mine and welcome back to
the Weekend Collective. But this is the Wonery Radio Show.
My guest is Debbie Roberts. We're talking about the art
of negotiation. By the way, I've I've been picking Debbie's
(15:40):
brain a bit more about when she brought her her place,
and if we've got time, she's gonna have to fill
You're gonna have to fill us more on that story
because it's as quite actually amusing about how deals get done.
And there's more to the story that you heard from Debbie,
but we want to hear yours as well. The art
of a good negotiation. Diane, Hello, Hi, how are you
going good? Thanks?
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Yeah, Well, my story is a couple of years ago.
My husband's health wasn't fantastic. We had to leave a
three devil home. Otherwise it was like death or move,
no brainer. And I've found an apartment really want to
move into down Bremer's Corner. Logan apartments are great. And
then we engage a really young red estate agent and
(16:23):
it came down to trust and commitment. He just told
us on the level where the Michael was at. We
got our house, you know, like a builder's report, and
I committed to everything on the list that the builders,
you know, the report said had to be fixed, which
(16:44):
we did, which took all our background money. And he
held his commitment too, and he got us within about
one thousand dollars of my husband's high amount he wanted,
you know, And we didn't go to auction because we
had already had already committed to buy the apartment because
(17:06):
that was it that we're moving to. Totally focused. And
the guy, his name's Adam from Harcourt. God, he was
just incredible that no trustworthy, just so trustworthy, you know,
and you need to feel that trust from your real
estate agent.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Absolutely, it's you know, it's oh it is.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
And also it was it was about our life going
forward as the sixties, plus couple my husbands in the seventies.
And he was shocked that I'd give up our family
home and the garden that I tended and growing treason
for the last twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Oh yeah, him, lots of brain me. Yeah, there's lots
of emotion in that sort of thing, in those decisions,
isn't there How much did how much did you want
the sellers to know? Because it's there's two sides to
letting them to if you needed to sell to buy
something else, that is, there's two sides to that. One.
(18:11):
It's a hook for a buyer that they think they're
going to be able to do a deal, but it's
it's also giving something away, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
I mean, did you let cards do you?
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Well?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Well, that's why I was wondering if the real estate
is it's because sometimes a real estate ad will say
sellers have bought already, and so there's pressure to do
a deal because okay, it's giving away a position, but
it's also enticing people to go all and it's not always.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
A bad thing either. You know, if the vendor is
genuinely motivated to sell because they've got a deadline looming,
then I think sometimes the real estate agent is working
in their best interests by letting people know, hey, this
is a property that needs to get sold. Come play bored.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
Yeah, Well the indication was we did a deadline sales.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Excellent, Yeah, you know, to make it.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
And he kept us totally up up to speed with
what was happening. And he had two maybe three very
viable people and one family in particular wants the property
and so we brought it forward or the date forward.
And also the people we were buying off at Logan Apartments,
(19:30):
they allowed us to do a lower deposit because they
knew we were committed, so they actually helped us as well.
So it's just people having good old fashioned trust and
belief and you know, you're you're good as your words
and your signature.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So long as your trust as well placed. That's the
main thing. Hey, thanks Diane good On here. Thanks thanks
for that. If I was going to put on my
cynical hat though, is that I mean, it's how much
how much do you tell your real estate agent, because
you don't if you're a seller. I mean they get
their commission when they sell if they can convince you
to accept a lower price. I mean it's not always.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Realisted agents have to work in the best interest of
the vendor, the person that's selling the house. But yeah,
you're right, it does come down to getting a sale
across the line. But I think a good realistic agent
is worth their weight in gold, so, you know, and
a realistic agent that you've got that trust with and
that you really do feel like they've got your best
(20:33):
interests at heart, that's a relationship worth nurturing.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Excellent. Right, let's take some more calls Ross Hello, his.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
You've got to watch some of these bloody land agents
when it comes to auctions, because I've had an occasion
where it said prior offers welcome or something like that,
and I thought, yeah, I could do with this place.
So I've called the agent. They've come and talked to
me and said, I said about this prior office that
(21:05):
it's good in loves my house then and he said no,
he said, what we do is use your offer as
the starting base of the auction.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
If your if your auction, yeah, if your offer prior
to an auction gets accepted, that is the standard rule
is that you know, it does go to auction and
your offer that the that the vendor accepted becomes the
the minimum. Like that's the starting bid, but it's also
the reserve.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
So that means a lot of people, a lot of
people don't know that. They don't get told that no exactly,
And I think it's just honest to be honest, Well, it's.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
It's quite an open system, so you know, it's it's
an action in my opinion, and I'm not a realistic agent,
but an auction is the best way to get market value,
you know, because it's an open market, it's an open process,
and if your offer is accepted prior to the auction,
there might not be any other bid is. So that's
why when you're making a pre auction off you've got
(22:03):
to make sure you're happy with that it and take
your chances.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
On the day.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
The place we did buy needed it, we better work
down to it nice home and they had a figure
on it. Off is over, so off. I offer them
less than that and said I'll take care of all
the bits of work when you done excellent and they said, yep,
that'll do us. It was a deceased to state.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And so did you get it at the auction as well?
Speaker 6 (22:34):
It was your No, no, no it wasn't. It wasn't
an auction.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Oh I thought you thead of the action, No, that
this wasn't.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
Going to be auction, the one I didn't go with
because of the agent's rules with you. I didn't go.
I didn't bloody go there. I thought, no, I can't
take it.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I mean that it's it's heightened stuff, isn't it. Because
it's easy for us to city are chatting about property deals.
But when you're in the hot seat of wanting to
buy or sell your dream home or whatever, it's really
high stakes. So it's so difficult to put to to
rehearse that stuff in a way, isn't it, Debbie.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
It is because emotions get in the way, you know.
And I think it's important to remember that not everyone
has to sell. Some people are motivated to sell for
a bunch of different reasons, but they don't necessarily have
to sell. And having said that, some people who've got
their houses on the market, price isn't their main priority.
(23:29):
So for some people who've maybe owned their house for
thirty years, you know, they might be mortgage free, for example,
they might have other reasons for wanting to sell it,
so they're not necessarily after getting the top dollar. They
just want to get the deal done so they can
move on.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Actually, the thing is, in my landlord's case, you sold
to me, I think one of the things because it
wasn't like he had an epiphany or anything. But he
liked the idea that we went buying it as investors,
he said, And he even said to me, he said, look,
you know, you guys want to have children and raise
your kids. Here look, give me this and we'll call
it a deal. And I think I call it a
(24:06):
win women in a way. He was happy and we
were happy. But I mean, I wonder if people are
sometimes sellers motivated by thinking, oh, look, this is such
a lovely family, the house that we've poured so much
love into, you know, we've cultivated the gardens and things.
Now it's going to be inhabited by this lovely family.
We'd rather sell it to them than the person who's
probably gonna, I don't know, just flick it on in
(24:30):
six months. Is there ever that do you think there
was always money, money, money, money, money.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
I think no, I think I think money is not
the most important factor for a lot of people that
are selling.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
So yeah, for some people, absolutely, but it's not for everyone.
I mean, like, you know, I can think of so
many different examples of where people have accepted a lower
price because you know, the settlement didn't suit.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Them, or well there's the tender of it, the tenders everything.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah, there's so much that you can negotiate on when
it comes to property. It's more than just price and
settlement date.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah. Right, let's take another call where we're up to
fill gooday.
Speaker 6 (25:08):
Good, how are you good?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Things?
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Yeah, I think that might have been the case. When
I bought my house, the people that sold it to
me kind of sold it to me because I was
first home buyer and it wasn't so much about the
money for them. They just kind of thought a bit
of sympathy on me. Maybe, But I haven't got much
advice on negotiations. When when I first saw the place,
(25:33):
I got the field that, yeah, I like this, this
is me And the land agent was brilliant, my land
agent that showed me the place. But I watch a
lot of programs like location and Location and stuff like that,
and I don't know, but seems to one of the
things I would say is that because I only when
I bought my house, I knew it was a good
(25:55):
deal and I was getting it cheap in a good
street and a good neighborhood because it's an older house
book in the fifties. So they gave me the price
and I put in, just to be cheeky, about a
two thousand dollars year no counter off, and they said no.
And then I said, right, I'm going to lose this
by mark around. So I gave him the asking price.
But on that location, location and programs like that, they
seem to say things like always go and don't go
(26:18):
in at your best price, which probably makes common sense,
or you know what you can ultimately afford, but going
a bit lower in a bit well maybe a bit cheeky,
because you can always go up and you can't go down.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Indeed, you can't change your mind once you put your yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
And if you don't ask, if you don't ask, you
don't get. You know, that's something that we say to
our clients all the time, is what's nothing wrong with
putting in a lower offer. Worst that's going to happen
is that they'll say.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
No, hey, just before we go to the break, we've
got some more callers there. But I did want you
to fill in the gaps a little bit about your
nego shash. It's quite funny. You had to negotiate with
your husband in a way about what about trusting him
to do the deal, and you had to agree your
number first before he went to the off.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
No, I didn't agree on the number, So Paul and
I both wrote down and figure that we were happy
with what would be our top dollar that we'd be
prepared to pay and my top dollar was considerably higher
than yours. And he looked at me and than his.
And he looked at me and he said, so you
need to understand that if we can't, if you if
(27:27):
I'm going to negotiate this, you need to trust me
to do it. And I said, we of course I do.
And he said, well, if we can't get it for
the price like below my top dollar, you need to
be prepared to walk away. And I said fine, and
we did. We did walk away from it because the
vendor didn't accept this Chris to start with, but we
(27:49):
ended up doing a deal about three months later. The
same vendor.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Fine, I e. Not fine, but you better do this deal, buddy.
So luckily for him it ended happily.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, well eventually, yeah, because the vendors weren't able to
sell it to anyone else.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
And so they turned you down.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
They tuned us down.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
And then a few a few months later, the realistic
agent called us up and said, they want to know
you're still in the market.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
What was your emotional journey at that point.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
No, no, no, not that, not when you got it,
but oh when we missed it failed so were you scuttered? Okay?
And how was how were you with? You know, with
your negotiating husband was the doctor?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Luckily for her, I loved her more than the house.
No contestant.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
It's a love story in the end, isn't it. Twenty Look,
we want your stories on negotiating twenty two to five
Newstalk said, b they didn't know jes. Let's welcome back
to the Weekend Collective with this one Refradia show. My
(29:00):
guest is Debbie Roberts probably apprentice she's with. You might
have recognized her voice from some of the promotions she
does on the station Property Apprentice, Dot Curtt and Zed.
We're talking about the art of negotiation and your stories
as well. What's the secret to getting the deal done?
And look, I guess, as they say, if it's a
win win in the end, you're happy, they're happy. Hopefully
you're both right. And let's take your calls in your
(29:23):
negotiation stories as well. Helga, Hello, good thanks, just do
my phone up.
Speaker 7 (29:31):
Well, my situations a bit but different to other people's.
I inherited an old house and land and pons be
with pontsab Land is very valuable. That was in twenty
and sixteen and it sold for a million, but the
house was built in eighteen sixty five. That was an auction,
but I wouldn't recommend auctions. We then built a brand
(29:53):
new house in Walk Class A Golden Homes that's quite
through the sun was the title again, some of the tile,
everything was beautiful. And then my son got married, so
we decided to say all the house again. And what
I found out about auctions, if no one turns up
to the auction, you've paid the agency, which I didn't
(30:14):
think was right. So we sold by negotiation and that
house with Ruth over a billion, but we went too
high and the land agent suggested a bit lower and
we sold it. But I wouldn't recommend auctions because you
might be paying them for a fee and no one
turns up.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
The market, doesn't it you pay the auctioneer's fee.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Yeah, which it's bad enough when you're paying out all
the loyal fees and everything, you know, and not everyone
has a million dollar house to sell. I'm only saying
that because to help other people who don't have the money,
just be careful and lying the agents. Am I allowed
to mention agent stable not what in.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
A positive way, because we don't want anyone. If you've
got a shout out.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
Yeah that's all right, Yeah, hard thoughts and walk and
hard courts and Mounttower, but excellence. I'm going to give
you some other advice. And people bet them betted for
a good dumb agent.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Well you absolutely ask around if as well. Yeah, good
good stuff. I'll go, Well, thanks for your call. Actually
there was a there's a real estate agent and my
neck of the words. I've mentioned her before actually, but
she has a she put a book at the best marketing.
She has a booklet she puts out which has the
contact numbers of a range of trades people for any
(31:37):
job you could ever possibly want on your property. Nice
and in fact, I even i'd lost it and I
couldn't remember where it was, and somebody told me and
I went around and said can I have a few,
and she and I met her and she was like absolutely,
and I think she'd ranged to drop them off. But
I was thinking that was such a good marketing device
because every time you go I need a plumber, try
this one. You go to the same booklet and there's
the real estate agent there.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Now we need to just before I mean time's flying.
We've barely talked about the market in that core Logic
study but study not sorry, the core Logic data analysis
where it says that in real terms, house prices are
going to be twenty percent lower in the thirties than
in twenty twenty one. And these are all the headlines
(32:20):
that don't help it to change from being a buyer's market.
We've had the CVS where nine percent drop on average,
and headlines that property prices aren't going to be too
flash in terms of where inflation's going, where property prices
are going exactly? What's the context that we Is there
any any context we're missing?
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Well, my thoughts on this is that anytime someone's making
predictions about what might happen is literally crystal ball gazing.
No one knows, no one knows what's going to happen.
What we can do is make predictions based on historic events,
you know. So, I mean I would be and at
(32:57):
the end of the day, no one is expecting house
prices to drop by twenty percent. But I tell you what,
the number of people that are commented on social media
that just read the headline and didn't read the article,
it's astounding. So the more that people think house prices
are going to drop by twenty percent.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Not in real numbers, No, not in real numbers, but
that's what.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
The headline looks like, and that's what people see. That's
what grabs their attention. So I think the more that
people are out there thinking that, and the more that
people are thinking, gosh, our house has dropped in value
because the cvs are a lot lower than they were
last time, all of that puts uncertainty into the market,
and that makes it more of a buyer's market, potentially
(33:40):
for a little bit longer. I was talking to you
in the break, I think the current market conditions for
anyone who's looking at purchasing, these are the best market
conditions that we've seen for over a decade. Last time
we were in a really true buyers market was just
after the global financial crisis.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
What year was that, in reminding you, two thousand and.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Seven, two thousand and eight, So it's been a long time.
And when we look back through previous property cycles, we
tend to get the peak of the boom about every
ten years. You know, the last boom was a lot
longer than that. So if we go back to averages,
then it could be another ten years before we see
(34:19):
market conditions like this again. And I reckon twelve months
from now, two years from now, people will be going,
oh god, I wish we'd bought in twenty twenty five.
And this is me who's not selling properties.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah. No, No, you're in the business of helping people
buy them, don't you.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Yeah, and it's a great time to be buying.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I about this text here with respect. Your advice is
putting a lot of pressure on first time buyers. If
they it, If they find a house they can afford
and they like, and they hold it for ten years,
it won't matter if they could have paid less for it.
I don't quite agree with that.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
No, I don't agree with that either. And the reason
I don't agree with that is because capital growth is
not important to first time buyers, but getting the lowest
mortgage possible is really important. And if you can make
your money when you buy, you've created your own capital growth,
and even better, if you can buy a property that's
got value add potential, you're doing even better when there's
(35:12):
no capital growth.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
So yeah, that's not actually right. Yeah, because and of course,
if you've got another fifty grand on your mortgage, and
it takes you longer to pay that mortgage. If you've
got more interesting, you've got more interest, you're paying on
that other amount that you could have saved. So actually, yes,
it does matter. I would say, maybe she's talking about
if you buy house and then you fleck it on
and buy another sort of thing, And I don't know
whether there's a different context where it might not be
so tragic. Is there I'm not sure. Well, in other words,
(35:38):
if you buy a house and you live in and
that set, whereas if you buy a house and you
eventually trade up a few years later in another one,
is there a context where maybe what you paid first
time round, isn't it so relevant?
Speaker 3 (35:48):
I think you know, property is a long term strategy
unless you're looking at flipping properties, which is a totally
different ballgame. Like that's a business. You're in the business
of buying and selling houses stuff. You're flipping properties, so
you've got to take gest and tax on profit into
account for that. Is well, But generally speaking, homeowners move
on average about once every seven years. Property investors sell
(36:12):
their rental properties on average about once every ten years.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Right, you've got some tip. You had some tips because
We've spent so much time bountering about great, But are
there some other I mean, you said don't get emotional,
and if you are emotional, don't tell the real estate
your agent your emotional if you're buying. What's another one?
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Absolutely? I think be patient, look for value, add potential,
don't be scared of making a lower offer, because negotiations
the key.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I think that that's a big one, because if you
are a people pleaser and you've got a real estate agent,
it's like, oh, you know, I don't think if you
don't try and please the real estate agent, just come
up with a number and saying here's my number, and
just grit your teeth and look, practice the art of
the dead pandemic.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yes, and look, the more you know about what's happening
in that area, the stronger you're negotiation stance will be.
You know, the more you know about what properties have
been selling for, that's that puts you in a stronger position.
So yeah, just I think buy for equity and or
cash flow. If you're looking for an investment property at
the moment, you're not buying for capital growth because there's
(37:23):
so all okay, right.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
We'll take a moment it's ten minutes to five news talk,
said b.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
The one roof property of the week on the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yes, the one roof property of the week is it's
a beauty actually, but not in the way you might think.
It's almost like your traditional beach batch. But I'll give
you the address where you can find it on the
one roof for website one roof dot curtain in set
is one Rosa Lee R s A L I E.
Bay Road, Great Barrier Island and the Hurricane Golf. Five bedrooms,
two bathrooms, one one car garage four off street and
(38:00):
it was it's it's one point three million dollars, which
is actually quite quite a whack. But it's a classic
family home breming with charm and comfort, featuring a generous
living areas ideal for family gatherings, room to relaxing and
detain fantastic views. Although when I look at it, it's
(38:23):
apparently built quite recently, but it certainly has a certain
rustic charm to it, like it's an old like it's
an old sort of beach batch. In fact, what do
you make of it?
Speaker 6 (38:34):
Do you?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
The photos I'm seeing of it looked quite Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
It's quite cute. That's the sort of place that you
could potentially rent out by short term rental as well,
if you have it as a holiday home and rent
it out for short term when you weren't using it.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Absolutely amazing views, isn't it. So you go and check
that out. It's I think some of the information I've
got on this might not be quite right because it
says talks about how when it was recently built. In fact,
we might have might have a slightly wrong description for
that one there, But go and check out the photos.
Of course it is quite a spectacular location and a
(39:09):
real sort of traditional looking beach batch. But yeah, five bedrooms,
two bathrooms, Yeah, there we go. So yours for one
point three roughly? Would you say sold? You walk in
and you go sold?
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Or maybe if you had an extra we've got a
holiday home we love, so yeah, we're good.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
What sort of style of what sort of style of
architecture appeals to you that you know? For instance, we've
heard your story about walking and going sold?
Speaker 7 (39:37):
What was it?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Was it? Because it was modern all sort of.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Well, it had some value add potential. The biggest value
add potential was the big backyard. Because I looked at
that and I saw an outdoor kitchen in a swimming pool,
I thought done. Yeah, I like, I like modern contemporary.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
So yeah, I made a mistake with the description that
I should correct there by the way that there was
a main dwelling which is a classic family home and
that's that says Bremming with charming. Come. But there's also
a second dwelling which is the designer beach pad crafted
for modern laid back living. So that's why it's a
bit more expensive than I thought for the initial property
that I was looking at. But anyway, so people want
(40:17):
to catch up with the work you're doing, they can
go to Property Apprentice dot co dot nz and you've
got regular not workshops, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
We do free online events every week, so yeah, people
can register for one of those on our website and
come ask me as many questions as you want to
excellent two hours to talk about stuff.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
And yeah, and learn a few lessons about negotiation and
do not say sold when you walk on the door.
I think, just what we've learned today. Hey, Debbi, great
to catch up with you.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Thanks for having so much.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
We'll be back with the parents quite us next. Nathan
Wallace talking about dealing with teenagers anxiety and outbursts. When
do you let them write it out? Or when do
you take yourself off for a bit of quiet time?
Will be taking your cause? Oh wait? One hundred eighty
ten eighty in text on nine two nine tools.
Speaker 7 (41:03):
Surely all I really need is a little
Speaker 1 (41:14):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks it Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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