March 8, 2025 • 37 mins
Psychologist Dougal Sutherland joins Tim Beveridge to discuss how parents should handle the pressure to treat their children equally.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, welcome back to the one the Weekend Collective. Sorry
that was the one ref radio show. Now it's time
for the Parents Squad. By the way, if you've missed
any of the previous hours, then you can go and
check check out our podcast on iHeartRadio. Just look for
the Weekend Collective all gout of the News Talks a
b website. And of course, by the way, if you
I'm sorry we didn't get to all your texts for
the one roof radio show where our new guests Mike
(00:53):
from a SPA property management, but I'm sure he'll be back,
and don't forget next time get on that blow and
nice and early because we had a few people I
think disappointed there, But there we go. Right, let's let's
talk parenting and to join us for the Parent Squad.
It is he's a psychologist at Umbrella Well Being and
his name is was no surprise to us. He's become
(01:13):
a part of the furniture should I say, Google Sutherland?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Did I tell him what sort of part of the
furniture there? Think?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I am the I was just curious, you know, i'ld
like to know what you mean by that's interesting. I
think it's like a comfy, like the comfy sort of
sofa which you go to for a little bit of
sanity and soulless.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
How about that they are very nice and you can
put your feet up, a little bit of a lie down.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Actually, as I said, can I be honest with you
when I said piece of the furniture, I thought, that's
not your finest work.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Tim, That's sure. I don't mind being a piece of
the Finnish as long as a nice as long as
it's a nice piece of the finish.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Ah, yes, indeed, indeed, he have you been.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I've been, well, I've been. I've got an extra element
to add to expertise now because I'm officially a grandparent.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Now, oh my goodness goodness.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, and I'm getting a lot of feedback there too.
But that's okay, that was.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
An interesting interesting, We're getting it. I might hang on
second second. That's better, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
That's much?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That was actually funny enough. Normally the microphone by default
in the studio the other microphone through zoom is muted.
So that was so your grandfather congratulations.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, thank you? Yeah, yeah. Nine weeks old baby girl
called Florence, my son and his partner had, Yeah, they had.
Florence was born on the twenty ninth of December.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay, so what was the what was the fel what
was It's different when you become a grandparent, isn't because
it's sort of like all care and no responsibility.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, look at and it's still new because they're in
Auckland and we're in Wellington, so it's it's it's still
it's still a pretty new thing. So it's still like, oh,
I don't even well, I'm not even comfortable with the
term grandparent yet. It's like I'm not I'm not old
enough to be. So I usually say my son's had
a child rather than I've had a grandchild, because it's
(03:15):
like I don't know if I'm really I don't I
look at my you know, I don't look at my
grandparents and I think, I don't know, I'm not like them.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So yeah, because but no, it's yeah, I actually I
think that's quite funny, isn't that that you it's a
new identity that you have to take on when you
actually still look in the mirror and I look at you.
Now you're a very you're a very young granddad.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Look I am I look, I'm over the age of fifty,
so that's but yeah, no, I feel I feel I don't.
I don't feel like a granddad. But but that's that's no,
that's no that that's no commentary at all on my
son or daughter in law or the baby. That's more
of it. That's that's more about me.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, And isn't it refreshing that someone who is, you know,
in the field that you are in as a psychologist,
that that you're able to confess your own frailty of
ego that I'm not ready to be. Hey, by the way,
I'm happy to have you decided what you're going to because, look,
you would would be the only grandparent you've you will
have chosen a name for yourself. Whether the child uses
(04:16):
it is that's that's another stage. But have you discussed
and chosen names for what you're going to be?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Well were I was. I was going for the being
called the duke, but that didn't really fly. That didn't
fly with anybody. I just thought it had a sense
of gravitas about it. Really. Anyway, we haven't gone with that.
The kids have always called me. Over the last few
years since they've grown up, the kids have called me Duggy,
and so we're gonna we think we're going to go
(04:44):
with grand Duggy.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Okay, because both of those could be quite close. I
would imagine that if you did go with the duke,
that you know how kids can mispronounce things, same with Douggie,
that you might end up being Ducky Ducky.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I could grand Ducky Ducky's coming around.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
You're welcome to text if you've got suggestions. Yeah, I mean,
it is a funny sort of little side out to
the World's the world Google Sutherland, what should he go for?
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Because there should my grandparent name be?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
There are certain titles for grandparents that can suggest that
you are far older than you are.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really wasn't keen on like Popper
or Pops or anything, because to me, that has a
real element of sort of somebody in their armier with
a big GUARDI who's sort of eighty and no offense
to Pops or grandpops who are listening. But that's just
what came to my mind. So it's like, I don't
really want to be that, and it's look, it's funny
because I grew up and I didn't have grandfathers. So
(05:45):
both my grandfathers had passed away before I was born,
and so it was like, oh, I don't actually, so
I don't have a lot of experience and even having
a grandfather or doing the grandfather thing because I never
had one.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
No same hair.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, it's new territory. It's it's cool, but it's also
like it was a bit kind of weird. I don't
know how.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I had very dear friends of my parents. She was
known as Ningy. I don't know why Ningy came out,
but that was just a kid's name, and granddad was
often saying no for things, but no, no, no, and
his name actually became I love those.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Our our other, our daughter in law, her mom, so
the other grandparents. She's called dear dear because with all
the grandkids she go dear dear, So they all call
her the idea which is which is really and she
is she's she's a very very dear, wonderful, caring person.
So it sits really well with her.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So yeah, we get onto it, though, what what's what's
grandmother's name?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
So far, well, she's been we've been tossing that around too,
and she's kind of settled on She's sort of settled
on Grandma because she couldn't come up with anything else.
And then and then somebody said to her yesterday, she said,
won't they just call you Rachel? Why you're first name,
because that's what you are. It's like, oh, yeah, maybe
my kids grandkids will just call me rag well Rachel.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And ducky I think is the thing. Anyway, I flogged
this thing to death. We need to get onto our topic.
But actually this, I think this is I'm quite intrigued
with this just as a parent myself, because the question
around what consistent parenting looks like and and do you
have to treat what are the requirements? Should I put
(07:32):
it in a better way, what are the requirements or
the needs to treat your children the same? And it's
that balance between consistent parenting and also managing the different
needs of different children with different personalities and different ages
and all that sort of thing, because it's one of
the things that kids love to throw back in your
face all the time, is oh, you didn't do that
(07:55):
for such and such, and it's like and sometimes I
don't actually know how to handle those criticisms because my
kids are quite true, my kids are quite smart at
dissecting me. Yeah, what, What's how important does consistency in
parenting and between kids?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, look at when when when? When you sent the
question through, I've been actually grappling with it as well,
because I absolutely agree and believe in the importance of
consistency of parenting and rules in the household. I think
that's really important. But equally, there's no way, you know,
my kids are four years apart, and there's no way
(08:34):
I would have expected my daughter when she was six
to be doing the same as my son when he
was ten, So that would they would have been, and
so I would have had different expectations based on that.
You know, he he would stay up later because he's ten,
and you know if they well stay up later. It's
in the argument. I'm sure every parent has used this.
(08:56):
It's because he's ten and yours six, and it's like,
you know, into a kid that's like, well, that's not really,
but I think there is some there is something in
that I think I don't know about personality, like I'm
not sure that you should. I mean, it'd be interesting
because I'm I'm trying to come up with a concrete
situation where that would be a factor. But I certainly
(09:18):
think there should be consistency of rules in a household.
I think that's really important. But you know, things like
age or what happens I've got really different abilities. What
happens if ones really really sporty and ones really really academic?
What's the expectation here do we expect the saying do.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
The example that suddenly has cropped into my mind because
I didn't think of this at the time, was the well,
I just say it in the way it comes out.
But Liam Lawson, as we know, is about to hit
the f one. I mean, I think it's been described
and he feels great that his parents definitely spent more
time fostering. And I think his sisters might have even
(10:02):
had to miss out on certain dance lessons because what
Liam was doing and stuff, And that's a difficult one.
A good example might be you've got one child who's
got the potential for I don't know, they could end
up representing New Zealand and going to the Olympics. I
think those situations. In fact, I've seen it. I have
actually been witnessed to this where there's been one child
(10:24):
who's been very talented, and all the focus going on
to that, And I've wondered about whether it's just a
reality that other kid's siblings accept or whether it actually
can be quite damaging to their own sense of self
esteem look.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
At I certainly think getting into that area is an
area to be wary of. Like this is a funny
kind of analogy, but certainly we know that when when
there's a kid who's very, very sick, let's say they're
having treatment for really severe illness, and you have a
sibling who's not, we know that often the attention goes
on to one kid and that's to the disadvantage of
(11:00):
the other. And I think it's really important in those
situations for parents to be alert to that and to
try as much as possible to balance that out, because
it can create resentment in the other one. Right, you're
feeling like you're missing out and the other one's being
a favorite. And there's probably some evidence to support that.
In a way.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I reckon, I reckon, it's just natural that you are
as a parent, no one well one, no one's perfect
for one but two just the requirements of But I
don't mean you making a choice. But if one child
has a certain personality, it might make certain demands of
your time versus another one. And it's almost inevitable, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Look it is, And I think it is something really
to be alert to as a parent, because I think
it can I think I think if it's not done
deliberately without a sort of a clear rational, it can
be it can create some difficulties that sort of different
sharing of attention. And certainly I've seen it situations where
(12:05):
what happens is that the kid who doesn't get attention
ends up playing up and because the misbehavior gets over
the threshold of printal attention, and so you in the
end create these sort of kids who have some difficult
behavior because they're trying to get the attention of their
parents because they don't get it. In other words, so
I think it's real. It's a real fine line to draw.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Well, here's an example which I can think of as
maybe in a family of three or four kids or something,
there might be one one child who's quite entertaining or
which up to a point, let's be honest, an extrovert,
and who is constantly sociable, Whereas there'll be the child
who slowly, who quietly just slips off to their bedroom
and lies on the bed and reads books all the
time and doesn't engage so much. Who might actually, I mean,
(12:51):
they might be doing that because they're comfortable with that.
But you don't want to try and drag them into
the entertainment anyway. Do you let them be them?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
No, you don't. And I guess that's a lot like
I think that's a I think that's about in a way,
that you want to try and treat the children fairly
in terms of the amount of attention you give them
as a parent, and to recognize that sometimes we are
drawn to spending more attention and time on one kid
than another, and actually our job as parents is to
(13:20):
recognize that and go, oh, I better to attend to
little Danny in the bedroom who's quiet, because that sort
of behavior just goes undetected. Whereas we you know, we've
got Tim who's sort of a singer and a dancer,
and we want to pay attention to him, you know,
and that's cool. We do want to pay attention to that,
but don't forget the other one. So I think I
(13:40):
think if we're talking about dishing out of parents' attention.
That's different really from what we expect in terms of
rules or behavior or whatever. But parents' attention. I think
that is under parents control and they need we need
as and as grandparents to be to be dishing that
out pretty equally if we.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Can, because there's a part of me that wonders whether
it's one of those things you just shouldn't think about
too much because relationships within family unless you have a
particular bias. So for instance, imagine if mums a real
runner and so all their attention goes on to the
childhood's athletic when there are the kids might be into
something else. That's the thing you would have to be
(14:19):
careful of, wouldn't you.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, I agree, Look I think and look, I don't
know about you, but I know that you that I
have different connect differently with my kids around different things.
And you know, my son's really into history and sports
and we often connect about that sort of thing, and
my daughter's really into movies and we connect about those
(14:41):
that those are just two examples. So I think you
have to be careful because often you are drawn to
one kid over the other at a particular time. But
I do think as an adult and as a parent,
it's our job to recognize that and go, hey, I
also better spend attension with you know, the other one
or the other ones, and I shouldn't. I need to
be alert just because I really click with them about
(15:02):
this that I can't just give all I can do
into one.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
So we would love your calls on this eight hundred
eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Look.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I phrased the question as you know how important it
is to treat your children the same with consistent parenting
when different personalities might require different approaches. I've got a
really crude way to answer the question. And I don't
mean crude rude. I mean, here's the crude way to
answer it. Is it okay to have favorites? Is it
just irresist unavoidable that you're going to have a child
(15:29):
who you empathize with more and the other kids will
just know it because that's the way it is. We'd
love your calls on this eight hundred eighty ten eighty
text nine to two nine term. My guest is Doogal Sutherland,
newly anointed grandfather. Let's call them, let's not come up
with the names. I won't play that game anymore. We'll
be back in a minute with your calls twenty two
(15:50):
past five news talks, he'd be Y's. Welcome back to
the Weekend Collective. This is the Parents Squad. My guest
as he's a psychologist at Umbrella Well Being. His name
is Dougal Sutherland, newly minted grandfather. I'm not sure that's
the right way to put it either anyway, but we're
(16:13):
talking about trading kids differently and because kids may have
different needs, personalities. Whatever is it? Okay? What is the
secret to consistent parenting? Nick? Good afternoon?
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Yeah, Hi, look it's I mean my two sons were
totally different. One was the placid quiet one and the
other one was the gagarias going down the slide in McDonald's.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
You know what I mean, Tarzan, Yep, nicely done.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
But if I think as to why I'm the way
I am, I have a younger brother, he's three years
younger than I. When he was twelve years old, he
went into an institution because he couldn't be handled at home.
So it was it was diagnosed autistic and I won't
know it for the reasons when I start a whole
bloom another topic. But I'm well recall let's just say
(17:08):
some discontent between me and my younger brother when he
was at home, so that I would often get from
one or both of my parents on Nick, how could
you let your brother do that? And he was autistic
and he might have smeared out if you know what
smearing is, but you know, crap all over the place.
And I would say, well, and I eventually started saying
(17:33):
with a lot more assertive as well, it's not my
bloody kid what you're blaming me, you know. And these
are the sorts of issues that you can have if
you have one child. I mean, if you've got a
couple of kids or three kids that are all fit
and healthy, great, But sometimes if you've got one kid
is a bit well, I.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Guess, yeah, thanks, Nick, I guess we can we can
sort of distill that down to if you have a
child who's neurodivergent, would be my way of trying to
sign up SAT a fair way of sort of.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I think definitely when you've got in each child who's
who's who has some neurodivergence or maybe they have some
sort of other or some form of disability, then then
obviously you're going to have differences. But I think next
point is, you know, underneath the next point is perhaps
the idea about how when you do have differently abled kids,
that that there can be different pressures go on one
(18:25):
or the other. And I think in those situations super
important for parents to recognize that one child might need
extra care and attention and to try as much as
possible to even that out and not and not overlook
the child that seems to be ticking along, because I
think that can be real worry. Sometimes.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I also think that children. So I've had I've said,
somebody who called up to say that she that she
objected to us calling them kids instead of children. Always
get someone who's very literal saying kids are Billy Gates.
It's like, well, actually, I think, as that part of
our common vernacular, we do understand that children and kids
can be used interchangeably. So just just relax, caller. But
(19:03):
I think kids, I want to say that to annoy her. Now,
I think that they also have a natural sense of
understanding of a lot of when kids when other children
are different siblings, don't they Because if you have a
brother or a sister who has needs special needs, yeah,
children are I think a very understanding it's and it
(19:26):
helped me sort of hone in on something I think
you might have touched on it. It's more about fairness,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, I think so. I think particularly siblings really, you know,
are alert, especially if there's one that is differently able
from the others for whatever reason, that the others can
often be quite protective and aware of that other kid.
I know somebody will ring in and say, oh, that
wasn't true for me, but talking in generalities here, I
think that's often the case. They can often be pretty protective.
(19:55):
But but again I would come back and say, hey, look,
and that's that's really great for those kids, and what
a wonderful view they're having, and and compassion that they're devoted.
But parents also need to be sharing out their attention
as equally as they can, remembering that not everything in
life is going to be fifty to fifty all the time.
But still coming back to parents being able to share
(20:17):
their attention out as equally as possible.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Actually, I've got a text here from someone who said,
I'm not sure if they were the child or the
parent here, but says one child at private school, one
child at public school. That was what was best for
each child.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Ye, yes, yeah, yeah, I've come across. Actually a friend
of my daughter's had the same that they both her
and her older sibling went to private schools each and
she just was not flourishing at the private school at all,
and her parents made the decision to take her out
and put her into a public school, and she just
flourished and it was really was the right thing for her.
(20:57):
So yeah, I think as long as that's well explained
and understood by the kids is probably a key thing
that it's not as seen as well, I'm getting preferential
treatment or something.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Actually, also, I would imagine, look, we have to imagine,
we have to read in context into these texts. I
would imagine that there'd be a conversation that would have
happen with that child anyway, you see them, you're happy, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
You would hope so, and you would assume that the
other sibling might actually notice too. And as long as
it's not seen as the other one, well, you're spending
twenty thousand dollars on there, you know, a year on them,
and you're only spending two hundred on me, how come
that's fair? And so again we're getting into sort of
nuanced stuff. But that's teenagers and I ask those questions
and parents do need to have a good explanation. You
(21:39):
can't just go, well, you just shut up. You're just
a kid. You know. You need to you need to
have some good rationale for that, especially if you're talking
to a teenager.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Have you ever had to pull out that line yourself though,
it's like this is parents.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yes, yes I have, and often do you know what?
In reflection, and I'm sure I do this with my grandchildren,
but you know, on reflection sometimes it's just because I
don't have it. I didn't have a good rationale, and
I just it was just like I almost felt caught
out sometimes and it was just like shout up beyond
(22:11):
the parent and you and the kid.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Actually, funny thing is, I've just realized that on the
private public school front, we had that in our family.
Of course, My oldest brother went to private school most
of his secondary school life and then went to the
public school Westernights High School and right a Road just
for the last couple of years, and we all from
(22:35):
then on went public. But the thing is, we all
knew why. The reason was was because one of the
house masters at the school was kane happy and he
got cane one too many times, and my mother just
decided that the house master was a sadist and a
few other things as well. But it's funny. I mean,
I never gave it a second thought. In fact, I'll
(22:55):
be honest, I think I probably got the better part
of the deal, because, gosh, it is. It's bringing up
a whole lot of family history.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
But it doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, yeah, old old school teaching as well, where maybe
you know, the teachers weren't always sober when they were
dealing with the kids either. I haven't named the school.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, no, no, that's good. It's a funny, a bit
of a tangent. But it's funny to think, isn't it that
we used to I was at school, kids used to
get the cane or the strap. It's a funny thing
to think of that extra we used to. We used
to allow other other adults to hitch our children with instruments.
It was like, Jesus, did we do that?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
If you go back far enough in fact that oh no,
that's right. That's the reason one of my brothers got
almost expelled was because prefects could give other students the sandshow.
They could give them the sandsho and my brother said,
if you try and use that sanshu on me, I'm
going to knock your teeth out. And he was bigger
than the prefect and that was sort of the end
of the game.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, anyway, a bit of a tangent, but yeah, it's
funny to think back on those times.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Luxury, right, let's take some more calls. A little reason
it for some of our older callers. I think Peter, Hello.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
How's the going guys?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Good things?
Speaker 7 (24:17):
Yeah, yeah, I was just turning on the radio and
listen to talking about our school stuff. And I've got
a story for you guys from the mid the eighties
when I was at college, we had a No, it's funny,
but not for one person. We had a what's the
deeply principal he is? I'm more of a mister Foster.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
I'd rather didn't name anyone, but anyway, this is going.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
To turn out non deploying.
Speaker 7 (24:44):
That makes it makes it easy for me to relate
by naming someone. It's not as real name, but I'm
thinking that one. And he was a PTE instructor in
the army, so that would have been probably the sixties
or seventies and it's definitely principal. And one day some
young lad winter his office for the for whatever misdemeanor,
(25:07):
and he gave them three or six of the best
but well, uh but but opened up his backside effectively.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Oh yeah, quite common.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
Yeah, so, I mean every dot and all that, so
toughing up the way you deserve it and that stuff
like that. And the education department told him so, they
told the differently principle. From there on you you're in
a cane backhead.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Blimey, those are harsh. Those are harsh old days, aren't they, actually, Peter,
that's actually those stories are quite common.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly when I went through school
and there was still a strap, I think the strap.
I don't think they've had a school with a cane,
but there was definitely the strap. And yeah, it was
it was I think trying to explain that to kids
now that your teacher could hit you with a with
a with a weapon, it's like, what.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, that's pretty full on. I mean we got corporal
punishment of course, you know, if you opened that up
to talk back and be like our crucifixion is too
good for them.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yes, please don't ring in with any more comments about it.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
We've got a couple of texts here. I think this
person says, I think it's key to teach children empathy.
My brother is autistic and did get a lot of
more got a lot more attention as a child. At
the time, I was sad about it sometimes, but my
parents instilled empathy in me by modeling it, and as
an adult, I now completely understand why he needed more
(26:35):
attention and have zero ill feelings about my childhood. That
does reply a journey, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (26:41):
There?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
It does, And what a great text to from that
person's And I think it sort of illustrates that sometimes
kids won't be able to make sense of it, and
we can do our best to make it as understandable
as possible. But it may not be that an eight
year old can fully appreciate it, but when they're eighteen,
they might have a different understanding. So yeah, as you say,
a bit of a journey for some people.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Here's another one, high tim We have four kids, and
while the rules apply to everyone, we learned a lot
through play Center courses about listening to your child and
being honest with them. Sometimes we get caught up and
our preconceived ideas around what parenting looks like in reality,
when you arrive there with all the personalities and needs,
you're approach, approach hasticated to the person in front of you.
(27:24):
Sometimes it's not equal, but as long as it's fair,
that probably is about right, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah, that's quite wise, isn't it. I mean, trying to
tease out the difference between fear and equal will be
But yeah, I think that is. There is that sense
of some time some kids will need something more or
something different, and that's recognizing that as an okay thing
to do, even though it's not equal, it is kind
of fear.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
And yeah, one of the things this does trigger a
conversation on action. We might do this after the break,
but I think it all ties into when you know,
children are aware that maybe one child gets treated slightly
differently for this reason because of this talent or whatever.
The question around sibling rivalry, and I wouldn't mind touching
on that with you, but after the break. So we
with Google Sutherland right now, this is the this is
(28:14):
the parents Squad, and he is a principal psychologist Umbrella
Well Being. By the way, before we go to the break,
where can people catch up with the work you do do.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
The best place to go is our website umbrella dot org.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Dot umbrella dot org dot In right, I'm Tim Beverage.
This is the Weekend Collective. We'll be back with your
calls and text and more chat. But by the way,
if you want to give us a call and get
ahead of the game on how your parents dealt with
sibling rivalry, because there are some people who just let
it play out, and I don't know if that's the
right thing or not. Oh wait, one hundred and eighty
ten eighty, it's twenty two to six.
Speaker 8 (28:51):
Way this sound back in sixty three.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
As welcome back to the Parents Squad on the Weekend Collecting.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
My guess is Dougle Dougle Dougle. I was thinking, ducky
Dougle Sutherland newly meanted grandfather and principal psychologist's umbrella wellbeing.
Tie that, as I mentioned before the break, just tie
that whole question around equal treatment of children and consistency
with sibling rivalry which sometimes might come out of competing
(29:36):
for mum and dad's attentions. What is sibling rivalry?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Oh look, I think you touched on one thing. There.
I think it's you know, sometimes it's just healthy kind
of competition between siblings trying to outdo the other. And
there's always a bit of that. No, there's nothing wrong
with that, I think if they're trying to compete for parents' attention, though,
I think that's a different it's a little bit of
a different thing because parents are in control of the
attention they give out, and I think there need to
be a bit wary of that because kids will do
(30:05):
anything for parents' attention, and and you know, it doesn't
matter if it's good attention or bad attention. Attention is
better than some attention, is better than no attention. And
so I think of kids are repeating competing for parents attention.
Parents seem to be pretty careful about that because they
control of that. But nothing wrong with a bit of
(30:26):
sibling rivalry, you know, brothers sporting against each other in
the backyard or you know, or trying to see who
can get the best on a mass test or whatever.
Nothing wrong with a bit of that.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I guess. The thing is it's usually skewed sibling rivalry
because unless you're twins, it's always older or younger sister
brother sort of thing. And so there is a natural
I mean I didn't. I was always competing with my
with my, with my brothers because I was the youngest.
You have nothing to lose, you know, even if we
had a fight, I would be swinging full firsts, never connecting,
(30:58):
while they'd be laughing at me sort.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Of go, yeah, look, I agree. It's never going to
be a fair competition on this, as you say, and
this you're twins. But that's look, I think a lot
of us have learned a little bit from that. Again,
parents have got some can set some limits and rules
around it. I would struggle to think of any family
I've come across where there wasn't a bit of a rivalry,
(31:22):
a bit of competition between the siblings. It just seems
part of growing up really, you know, the younger ones
trying to trying to outdo the older ones, and once
in a blue moon you get one over on them
when it feels like Christmas. It's you know, it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I think, actually, I think I'd probably be more worried
if there wasn't any if you know, because maybe it
depends on what environment you grow up in where there's
a natural bit of competition between kids. Because if if
there isn't some sort of rivalry between them, it would
mean that one of the siblings, or let's just say
(31:56):
the couple is just I don't know, then i'd be
worried about their lack of engagement in a way. But
that's overthinking things probably surely. Yeah, I mean that's what. Yeah,
that's what. That's what should be the mottover show overthinking parents.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Overthinking parenting. I thought, Look, I think you can overthink
it at times, can't you? But but look, I can't
think of many families I would have met, or including
my own, where there's not a bit of rivalry between
siblings at some point around some things, why can't I
do and say why can't I do that? Well, it's
because you're younger, it's because you're little er, it's because
you're smaller. Well, I'm going to strive and be better. Then, Yeah,
(32:32):
I think it's I think it's fairly natural.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I'd say, is that also part of I mean, the
part of having siblings and just life. Isn't it that
you know, you work out there are people who are
younger than you, there are people are older than you,
and and there are always differences and and sibling rivals
rivalry sometimes as a way of just working that out,
is it?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's healthy, you know,
recognizing that people there are differences between us and and
we might have to treat each other differently. Hopefully the
older siblings are a bit more developed and can have
a little bit of empathy and a bit of compassion
for the younger one. That will be a journey to
But yeah, I think there's a lot of nice life
lessons that not everything in life is equal and but
(33:11):
and sometimes we need to recognize that and treat people accordingly.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, is it ever a How would you know you
had a problem with sibling rivalry? Because I don't know
how much control can parents actually have over that, because
you will have sometimes kids who are naturally competitive and
just I mean, for me, I can imagine, I don't
know if our kids really have much sibling rivalry. There's
usually the odd argument here about this and that, but
it's not so much about rivalry, just about I don't know,
(33:38):
wanting something the other one hasn't got yet or something.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah. Yeah. I usually operate on a pretty pragmatic rule
that a problems not a problem until it's causing a problem.
So you know, there's no problem with civil rivalry until
you know somebody's coming home with a broken bone, and well,
I think that might have gone a little bit too far,
or that there's some real you know, I have certainly
seen kids who are feeling very very much like they're
(34:03):
getting the short end of the stick down, but that's
often because they're not being recognized by their parents, so
it's coming back to parents again rather than siblings. But
I think a little bit of healthy competition sibling rivalry
is just normal in most families. But unless it's causing
a problem, it probably don't need to get too involved
(34:24):
in it.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, I mean, would there be an example you can
think of where you think, oh, my goodness, we're really
going to have to do something about this, because they're
just everything. They would compete for who gets to the
dinner table first, who gets Look how much steak they've
got more steak than me? He got this before this?
And you know why, Look they've got more more fruit
juice in their glass. It's just the non stop stuff.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah. I've certainly seen families where that's the case, where
and often it's the younger siblings as going and it's
a constant thing. They've always got this, they've always got more,
And I think it when it's getting like that, it's like, actually,
we need to start paying attention to what the theme
here is. And the theme is that always this particular
sibling is feeling outdone and it's unfair, and we need
(35:07):
to be careful because there might be something under that
that they do feel that there's some unfair us or injustice,
and and take a little bit of account of that,
and watch what we're doing as adults that we're not
reinforcing that. You know.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
The classic one I would I've noticed is usually like
someone's got more mass potato on their plate. I always think,
you know what, I'd actually struggle with that because it's like, well,
hang on a minute, maybe that's right.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Maybe yeah, certainly want more if you're fourteen than if
you're four, But but I certainly think of it's all
the time, constant, constant, It has that really of its
impacting sort of the the emotions of that younger one
who's who feels always aggressive angry towards somebody else. Then
I think you need to do something about it.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, I think what I might have done once when
somebody was complaining about how much mass potato they had,
I took I took another mouthful and ate it myself
and said, you want to keep complaining.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
I always find that works.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Quite well anyway.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Yeah, the giving it up anyway.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Hey, great talking to you Google, And again, if people
want to get in touch, they can get it in
touch with you at your umbrella dot org dot nz.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
That's the one. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
What are your challenges for the week or are you
going to choose some granddad clothes?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
My challenges for the week I don't know. I haven't
actually looked at my diary. The challenge will be looking
at my diary on Monday and going cranky. I forgot
I had that.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
On Okay, Hey, thanks so much mate. I really enjoy
appreciate it talking to you and we'll look forward to
next time.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Nice to chat. Thanks Jim.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
There we go. That is Google Sutherland and you can
check him out at Umbrella Wellbeing. Of course if you can't,
if you forget websites, just look for the organization Umbrella
Wellbeing on Google. I'm sure we'll take you to the
right place. Google Sutherland. We will be back shortly to
wrap sport a larger part of fews with us because
at the moment the Fiji and Drew are playing the Chiefs,
and we'll also be previewing minea pacifica versus the Hurricanes
(36:58):
later on this evening, News Talks will be eleven to six.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Talk Said Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, welcome back to the one the Weekend Collective. Sorry
that was the one ref radio show. Now it's time
for the Parents Squad. By the way, if you've missed
any of the previous hours, then you can go and
check check out our podcast on iHeartRadio. Just look for
the Weekend Collective all gout of the News Talks a
b website. And of course, by the way, if you
I'm sorry we didn't get to all your texts for
the one roof radio show where our new guests Mike
(00:53):
from a SPA property management, but I'm sure he'll be back,
and don't forget next time get on that blow and
nice and early because we had a few people I
think disappointed there, But there we go. Right, let's let's
talk parenting and to join us for the Parent Squad.
It is he's a psychologist at Umbrella Well Being and
his name is was no surprise to us. He's become
(01:13):
a part of the furniture should I say, Google Sutherland?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Did I tell him what sort of part of the
furniture there? Think?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I am the I was just curious, you know, i'ld
like to know what you mean by that's interesting. I
think it's like a comfy, like the comfy sort of
sofa which you go to for a little bit of
sanity and soulless.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
How about that they are very nice and you can
put your feet up, a little bit of a lie down.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Actually, as I said, can I be honest with you
when I said piece of the furniture, I thought, that's
not your finest work.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Tim, That's sure. I don't mind being a piece of
the Finnish as long as a nice as long as
it's a nice piece of the finish.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Ah, yes, indeed, indeed, he have you been.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I've been, well, I've been. I've got an extra element
to add to expertise now because I'm officially a grandparent.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Now, oh my goodness goodness.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, and I'm getting a lot of feedback there too.
But that's okay, that was.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
An interesting interesting, We're getting it. I might hang on
second second. That's better, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
That's much?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That was actually funny enough. Normally the microphone by default
in the studio the other microphone through zoom is muted.
So that was so your grandfather congratulations.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, thank you? Yeah, yeah. Nine weeks old baby girl
called Florence, my son and his partner had, Yeah, they had.
Florence was born on the twenty ninth of December.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay, so what was the what was the fel what
was It's different when you become a grandparent, isn't because
it's sort of like all care and no responsibility.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, look at and it's still new because they're in
Auckland and we're in Wellington, so it's it's it's still
it's still a pretty new thing. So it's still like, oh,
I don't even well, I'm not even comfortable with the
term grandparent yet. It's like I'm not I'm not old
enough to be. So I usually say my son's had
a child rather than I've had a grandchild, because it's
(03:15):
like I don't know if I'm really I don't I
look at my you know, I don't look at my
grandparents and I think, I don't know, I'm not like them.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So yeah, because but no, it's yeah, I actually I
think that's quite funny, isn't that that you it's a
new identity that you have to take on when you
actually still look in the mirror and I look at you.
Now you're a very you're a very young granddad.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Look I am I look, I'm over the age of fifty,
so that's but yeah, no, I feel I feel I don't.
I don't feel like a granddad. But but that's that's no,
that's no that that's no commentary at all on my
son or daughter in law or the baby. That's more
of it. That's that's more about me.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, And isn't it refreshing that someone who is, you know,
in the field that you are in as a psychologist,
that that you're able to confess your own frailty of
ego that I'm not ready to be. Hey, by the way,
I'm happy to have you decided what you're going to because, look,
you would would be the only grandparent you've you will
have chosen a name for yourself. Whether the child uses
(04:16):
it is that's that's another stage. But have you discussed
and chosen names for what you're going to be?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Well were I was. I was going for the being
called the duke, but that didn't really fly. That didn't
fly with anybody. I just thought it had a sense
of gravitas about it. Really. Anyway, we haven't gone with that.
The kids have always called me. Over the last few
years since they've grown up, the kids have called me Duggy,
and so we're gonna we think we're going to go
(04:44):
with grand Duggy.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Okay, because both of those could be quite close. I
would imagine that if you did go with the duke,
that you know how kids can mispronounce things, same with Douggie,
that you might end up being Ducky Ducky.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I could grand Ducky Ducky's coming around.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
You're welcome to text if you've got suggestions. Yeah, I mean,
it is a funny sort of little side out to
the World's the world Google Sutherland, what should he go for?
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Because there should my grandparent name be?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
There are certain titles for grandparents that can suggest that
you are far older than you are.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really wasn't keen on like Popper
or Pops or anything, because to me, that has a
real element of sort of somebody in their armier with
a big GUARDI who's sort of eighty and no offense
to Pops or grandpops who are listening. But that's just
what came to my mind. So it's like, I don't
really want to be that, and it's look, it's funny
because I grew up and I didn't have grandfathers. So
(05:45):
both my grandfathers had passed away before I was born,
and so it was like, oh, I don't actually, so
I don't have a lot of experience and even having
a grandfather or doing the grandfather thing because I never
had one.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
No same hair.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, it's new territory. It's it's cool, but it's also
like it was a bit kind of weird. I don't
know how.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I had very dear friends of my parents. She was
known as Ningy. I don't know why Ningy came out,
but that was just a kid's name, and granddad was
often saying no for things, but no, no, no, and
his name actually became I love those.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Our our other, our daughter in law, her mom, so
the other grandparents. She's called dear dear because with all
the grandkids she go dear dear, So they all call
her the idea which is which is really and she
is she's she's a very very dear, wonderful, caring person.
So it sits really well with her.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So yeah, we get onto it, though, what what's what's
grandmother's name?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
So far, well, she's been we've been tossing that around too,
and she's kind of settled on She's sort of settled
on Grandma because she couldn't come up with anything else.
And then and then somebody said to her yesterday, she said,
won't they just call you Rachel? Why you're first name,
because that's what you are. It's like, oh, yeah, maybe
my kids grandkids will just call me rag well Rachel.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And ducky I think is the thing. Anyway, I flogged
this thing to death. We need to get onto our topic.
But actually this, I think this is I'm quite intrigued
with this just as a parent myself, because the question
around what consistent parenting looks like and and do you
have to treat what are the requirements? Should I put
(07:32):
it in a better way, what are the requirements or
the needs to treat your children the same? And it's
that balance between consistent parenting and also managing the different
needs of different children with different personalities and different ages
and all that sort of thing, because it's one of
the things that kids love to throw back in your
face all the time, is oh, you didn't do that
(07:55):
for such and such, and it's like and sometimes I
don't actually know how to handle those criticisms because my
kids are quite true, my kids are quite smart at
dissecting me. Yeah, what, What's how important does consistency in
parenting and between kids?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, look at when when when? When you sent the
question through, I've been actually grappling with it as well,
because I absolutely agree and believe in the importance of
consistency of parenting and rules in the household. I think
that's really important. But equally, there's no way, you know,
my kids are four years apart, and there's no way
(08:34):
I would have expected my daughter when she was six
to be doing the same as my son when he
was ten, So that would they would have been, and
so I would have had different expectations based on that.
You know, he he would stay up later because he's ten,
and you know if they well stay up later. It's
in the argument. I'm sure every parent has used this.
(08:56):
It's because he's ten and yours six, and it's like,
you know, into a kid that's like, well, that's not really,
but I think there is some there is something in
that I think I don't know about personality, like I'm
not sure that you should. I mean, it'd be interesting
because I'm I'm trying to come up with a concrete
situation where that would be a factor. But I certainly
(09:18):
think there should be consistency of rules in a household.
I think that's really important. But you know, things like
age or what happens I've got really different abilities. What
happens if ones really really sporty and ones really really academic?
What's the expectation here do we expect the saying do.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
The example that suddenly has cropped into my mind because
I didn't think of this at the time, was the well,
I just say it in the way it comes out.
But Liam Lawson, as we know, is about to hit
the f one. I mean, I think it's been described
and he feels great that his parents definitely spent more
time fostering. And I think his sisters might have even
(10:02):
had to miss out on certain dance lessons because what
Liam was doing and stuff, And that's a difficult one.
A good example might be you've got one child who's
got the potential for I don't know, they could end
up representing New Zealand and going to the Olympics. I
think those situations. In fact, I've seen it. I have
actually been witnessed to this where there's been one child
(10:24):
who's been very talented, and all the focus going on
to that, And I've wondered about whether it's just a
reality that other kid's siblings accept or whether it actually
can be quite damaging to their own sense of self
esteem look.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
At I certainly think getting into that area is an
area to be wary of. Like this is a funny
kind of analogy, but certainly we know that when when
there's a kid who's very, very sick, let's say they're
having treatment for really severe illness, and you have a
sibling who's not, we know that often the attention goes
on to one kid and that's to the disadvantage of
(11:00):
the other. And I think it's really important in those
situations for parents to be alert to that and to
try as much as possible to balance that out, because
it can create resentment in the other one. Right, you're
feeling like you're missing out and the other one's being
a favorite. And there's probably some evidence to support that.
In a way.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I reckon, I reckon, it's just natural that you are
as a parent, no one well one, no one's perfect
for one but two just the requirements of But I
don't mean you making a choice. But if one child
has a certain personality, it might make certain demands of
your time versus another one. And it's almost inevitable, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Look it is, And I think it is something really
to be alert to as a parent, because I think
it can I think I think if it's not done
deliberately without a sort of a clear rational, it can
be it can create some difficulties that sort of different
sharing of attention. And certainly I've seen it situations where
(12:05):
what happens is that the kid who doesn't get attention
ends up playing up and because the misbehavior gets over
the threshold of printal attention, and so you in the
end create these sort of kids who have some difficult
behavior because they're trying to get the attention of their
parents because they don't get it. In other words, so
I think it's real. It's a real fine line to draw.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Well, here's an example which I can think of as
maybe in a family of three or four kids or something,
there might be one one child who's quite entertaining or
which up to a point, let's be honest, an extrovert,
and who is constantly sociable, Whereas there'll be the child
who slowly, who quietly just slips off to their bedroom
and lies on the bed and reads books all the
time and doesn't engage so much. Who might actually, I mean,
(12:51):
they might be doing that because they're comfortable with that.
But you don't want to try and drag them into
the entertainment anyway. Do you let them be them?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
No, you don't. And I guess that's a lot like
I think that's a I think that's about in a way,
that you want to try and treat the children fairly
in terms of the amount of attention you give them
as a parent, and to recognize that sometimes we are
drawn to spending more attention and time on one kid
than another, and actually our job as parents is to
(13:20):
recognize that and go, oh, I better to attend to
little Danny in the bedroom who's quiet, because that sort
of behavior just goes undetected. Whereas we you know, we've
got Tim who's sort of a singer and a dancer,
and we want to pay attention to him, you know,
and that's cool. We do want to pay attention to that,
but don't forget the other one. So I think I
(13:40):
think if we're talking about dishing out of parents' attention.
That's different really from what we expect in terms of
rules or behavior or whatever. But parents' attention. I think
that is under parents control and they need we need
as and as grandparents to be to be dishing that
out pretty equally if we.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Can, because there's a part of me that wonders whether
it's one of those things you just shouldn't think about
too much because relationships within family unless you have a
particular bias. So for instance, imagine if mums a real
runner and so all their attention goes on to the
childhood's athletic when there are the kids might be into
something else. That's the thing you would have to be
(14:19):
careful of, wouldn't you.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, I agree, Look I think and look, I don't
know about you, but I know that you that I
have different connect differently with my kids around different things.
And you know, my son's really into history and sports
and we often connect about that sort of thing, and
my daughter's really into movies and we connect about those
(14:41):
that those are just two examples. So I think you
have to be careful because often you are drawn to
one kid over the other at a particular time. But
I do think as an adult and as a parent,
it's our job to recognize that and go, hey, I
also better spend attension with you know, the other one
or the other ones, and I shouldn't. I need to
be alert just because I really click with them about
(15:02):
this that I can't just give all I can do
into one.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
So we would love your calls on this eight hundred
eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Look.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I phrased the question as you know how important it
is to treat your children the same with consistent parenting
when different personalities might require different approaches. I've got a
really crude way to answer the question. And I don't
mean crude rude. I mean, here's the crude way to
answer it. Is it okay to have favorites? Is it
just irresist unavoidable that you're going to have a child
(15:29):
who you empathize with more and the other kids will
just know it because that's the way it is. We'd
love your calls on this eight hundred eighty ten eighty
text nine to two nine term. My guest is Doogal Sutherland,
newly anointed grandfather. Let's call them, let's not come up
with the names. I won't play that game anymore. We'll
be back in a minute with your calls twenty two
(15:50):
past five news talks, he'd be Y's. Welcome back to
the Weekend Collective. This is the Parents Squad. My guest
as he's a psychologist at Umbrella Well Being. His name
is Dougal Sutherland, newly minted grandfather. I'm not sure that's
the right way to put it either anyway, but we're
(16:13):
talking about trading kids differently and because kids may have
different needs, personalities. Whatever is it? Okay? What is the
secret to consistent parenting? Nick? Good afternoon?
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Yeah, Hi, look it's I mean my two sons were
totally different. One was the placid quiet one and the
other one was the gagarias going down the slide in McDonald's.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
You know what I mean, Tarzan, Yep, nicely done.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
But if I think as to why I'm the way
I am, I have a younger brother, he's three years
younger than I. When he was twelve years old, he
went into an institution because he couldn't be handled at home.
So it was it was diagnosed autistic and I won't
know it for the reasons when I start a whole
bloom another topic. But I'm well recall let's just say
(17:08):
some discontent between me and my younger brother when he
was at home, so that I would often get from
one or both of my parents on Nick, how could
you let your brother do that? And he was autistic
and he might have smeared out if you know what
smearing is, but you know, crap all over the place.
And I would say, well, and I eventually started saying
(17:33):
with a lot more assertive as well, it's not my
bloody kid what you're blaming me, you know. And these
are the sorts of issues that you can have if
you have one child. I mean, if you've got a
couple of kids or three kids that are all fit
and healthy, great, But sometimes if you've got one kid
is a bit well, I.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Guess, yeah, thanks, Nick, I guess we can we can
sort of distill that down to if you have a
child who's neurodivergent, would be my way of trying to
sign up SAT a fair way of sort of.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I think definitely when you've got in each child who's
who's who has some neurodivergence or maybe they have some
sort of other or some form of disability, then then
obviously you're going to have differences. But I think next
point is, you know, underneath the next point is perhaps
the idea about how when you do have differently abled kids,
that that there can be different pressures go on one
(18:25):
or the other. And I think in those situations super
important for parents to recognize that one child might need
extra care and attention and to try as much as
possible to even that out and not and not overlook
the child that seems to be ticking along, because I
think that can be real worry. Sometimes.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I also think that children. So I've had I've said,
somebody who called up to say that she that she
objected to us calling them kids instead of children. Always
get someone who's very literal saying kids are Billy Gates.
It's like, well, actually, I think, as that part of
our common vernacular, we do understand that children and kids
can be used interchangeably. So just just relax, caller. But
(19:03):
I think kids, I want to say that to annoy her. Now,
I think that they also have a natural sense of
understanding of a lot of when kids when other children
are different siblings, don't they Because if you have a
brother or a sister who has needs special needs, yeah,
children are I think a very understanding it's and it
(19:26):
helped me sort of hone in on something I think
you might have touched on it. It's more about fairness,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, I think so. I think particularly siblings really, you know,
are alert, especially if there's one that is differently able
from the others for whatever reason, that the others can
often be quite protective and aware of that other kid.
I know somebody will ring in and say, oh, that
wasn't true for me, but talking in generalities here, I
think that's often the case. They can often be pretty protective.
(19:55):
But but again I would come back and say, hey, look,
and that's that's really great for those kids, and what
a wonderful view they're having, and and compassion that they're devoted.
But parents also need to be sharing out their attention
as equally as they can, remembering that not everything in
life is going to be fifty to fifty all the time.
But still coming back to parents being able to share
(20:17):
their attention out as equally as possible.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Actually, I've got a text here from someone who said,
I'm not sure if they were the child or the
parent here, but says one child at private school, one
child at public school. That was what was best for
each child.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Ye, yes, yeah, yeah, I've come across. Actually a friend
of my daughter's had the same that they both her
and her older sibling went to private schools each and
she just was not flourishing at the private school at all,
and her parents made the decision to take her out
and put her into a public school, and she just
flourished and it was really was the right thing for her.
(20:57):
So yeah, I think as long as that's well explained
and understood by the kids is probably a key thing
that it's not as seen as well, I'm getting preferential
treatment or something.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Actually, also, I would imagine, look, we have to imagine,
we have to read in context into these texts. I
would imagine that there'd be a conversation that would have
happen with that child anyway, you see them, you're happy, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
You would hope so, and you would assume that the
other sibling might actually notice too. And as long as
it's not seen as the other one, well, you're spending
twenty thousand dollars on there, you know, a year on them,
and you're only spending two hundred on me, how come
that's fair? And so again we're getting into sort of
nuanced stuff. But that's teenagers and I ask those questions
and parents do need to have a good explanation. You
(21:39):
can't just go, well, you just shut up. You're just
a kid. You know. You need to you need to
have some good rationale for that, especially if you're talking
to a teenager.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Have you ever had to pull out that line yourself though,
it's like this is parents.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yes, yes I have, and often do you know what?
In reflection, and I'm sure I do this with my grandchildren,
but you know, on reflection sometimes it's just because I
don't have it. I didn't have a good rationale, and
I just it was just like I almost felt caught
out sometimes and it was just like shout up beyond
(22:11):
the parent and you and the kid.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Actually, funny thing is, I've just realized that on the
private public school front, we had that in our family.
Of course, My oldest brother went to private school most
of his secondary school life and then went to the
public school Westernights High School and right a Road just
for the last couple of years, and we all from
(22:35):
then on went public. But the thing is, we all
knew why. The reason was was because one of the
house masters at the school was kane happy and he
got cane one too many times, and my mother just
decided that the house master was a sadist and a
few other things as well. But it's funny. I mean,
I never gave it a second thought. In fact, I'll
(22:55):
be honest, I think I probably got the better part
of the deal, because, gosh, it is. It's bringing up
a whole lot of family history.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
But it doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, yeah, old old school teaching as well, where maybe
you know, the teachers weren't always sober when they were
dealing with the kids either. I haven't named the school.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, no, no, that's good. It's a funny, a bit
of a tangent. But it's funny to think, isn't it that
we used to I was at school, kids used to
get the cane or the strap. It's a funny thing
to think of that extra we used to. We used
to allow other other adults to hitch our children with instruments.
It was like, Jesus, did we do that?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
If you go back far enough in fact that oh no,
that's right. That's the reason one of my brothers got
almost expelled was because prefects could give other students the sandshow.
They could give them the sandsho and my brother said,
if you try and use that sanshu on me, I'm
going to knock your teeth out. And he was bigger
than the prefect and that was sort of the end
of the game.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, anyway, a bit of a tangent, but yeah, it's
funny to think back on those times.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Luxury, right, let's take some more calls. A little reason
it for some of our older callers. I think Peter, Hello.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
How's the going guys?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Good things?
Speaker 7 (24:17):
Yeah, yeah, I was just turning on the radio and
listen to talking about our school stuff. And I've got
a story for you guys from the mid the eighties
when I was at college, we had a No, it's funny,
but not for one person. We had a what's the
deeply principal he is? I'm more of a mister Foster.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
I'd rather didn't name anyone, but anyway, this is going.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
To turn out non deploying.
Speaker 7 (24:44):
That makes it makes it easy for me to relate
by naming someone. It's not as real name, but I'm
thinking that one. And he was a PTE instructor in
the army, so that would have been probably the sixties
or seventies and it's definitely principal. And one day some
young lad winter his office for the for whatever misdemeanor,
(25:07):
and he gave them three or six of the best
but well, uh but but opened up his backside effectively.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Oh yeah, quite common.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
Yeah, so, I mean every dot and all that, so
toughing up the way you deserve it and that stuff
like that. And the education department told him so, they
told the differently principle. From there on you you're in
a cane backhead.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Blimey, those are harsh. Those are harsh old days, aren't they, actually, Peter,
that's actually those stories are quite common.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly when I went through school
and there was still a strap, I think the strap.
I don't think they've had a school with a cane,
but there was definitely the strap. And yeah, it was
it was I think trying to explain that to kids
now that your teacher could hit you with a with
a with a weapon, it's like, what.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, that's pretty full on. I mean we got corporal
punishment of course, you know, if you opened that up
to talk back and be like our crucifixion is too
good for them.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yes, please don't ring in with any more comments about it.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
We've got a couple of texts here. I think this
person says, I think it's key to teach children empathy.
My brother is autistic and did get a lot of
more got a lot more attention as a child. At
the time, I was sad about it sometimes, but my
parents instilled empathy in me by modeling it, and as
an adult, I now completely understand why he needed more
(26:35):
attention and have zero ill feelings about my childhood. That
does reply a journey, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (26:41):
There?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
It does, And what a great text to from that
person's And I think it sort of illustrates that sometimes
kids won't be able to make sense of it, and
we can do our best to make it as understandable
as possible. But it may not be that an eight
year old can fully appreciate it, but when they're eighteen,
they might have a different understanding. So yeah, as you say,
a bit of a journey for some people.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Here's another one, high tim We have four kids, and
while the rules apply to everyone, we learned a lot
through play Center courses about listening to your child and
being honest with them. Sometimes we get caught up and
our preconceived ideas around what parenting looks like in reality,
when you arrive there with all the personalities and needs,
you're approach, approach hasticated to the person in front of you.
(27:24):
Sometimes it's not equal, but as long as it's fair,
that probably is about right, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah, that's quite wise, isn't it. I mean, trying to
tease out the difference between fear and equal will be
But yeah, I think that is. There is that sense
of some time some kids will need something more or
something different, and that's recognizing that as an okay thing
to do, even though it's not equal, it is kind
of fear.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
And yeah, one of the things this does trigger a
conversation on action. We might do this after the break,
but I think it all ties into when you know,
children are aware that maybe one child gets treated slightly
differently for this reason because of this talent or whatever.
The question around sibling rivalry, and I wouldn't mind touching
on that with you, but after the break. So we
with Google Sutherland right now, this is the this is
(28:14):
the parents Squad, and he is a principal psychologist Umbrella
Well Being. By the way, before we go to the break,
where can people catch up with the work you do do.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
The best place to go is our website umbrella dot org.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Dot umbrella dot org dot In right, I'm Tim Beverage.
This is the Weekend Collective. We'll be back with your
calls and text and more chat. But by the way,
if you want to give us a call and get
ahead of the game on how your parents dealt with
sibling rivalry, because there are some people who just let
it play out, and I don't know if that's the
right thing or not. Oh wait, one hundred and eighty
ten eighty, it's twenty two to six.
Speaker 8 (28:51):
Way this sound back in sixty three.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
As welcome back to the Parents Squad on the Weekend Collecting.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
My guess is Dougle Dougle Dougle. I was thinking, ducky
Dougle Sutherland newly meanted grandfather and principal psychologist's umbrella wellbeing.
Tie that, as I mentioned before the break, just tie
that whole question around equal treatment of children and consistency
with sibling rivalry which sometimes might come out of competing
(29:36):
for mum and dad's attentions. What is sibling rivalry?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Oh look, I think you touched on one thing. There.
I think it's you know, sometimes it's just healthy kind
of competition between siblings trying to outdo the other. And
there's always a bit of that. No, there's nothing wrong
with that, I think if they're trying to compete for parents' attention, though,
I think that's a different it's a little bit of
a different thing because parents are in control of the
attention they give out, and I think there need to
be a bit wary of that because kids will do
(30:05):
anything for parents' attention, and and you know, it doesn't
matter if it's good attention or bad attention. Attention is
better than some attention, is better than no attention. And
so I think of kids are repeating competing for parents attention.
Parents seem to be pretty careful about that because they
control of that. But nothing wrong with a bit of
(30:26):
sibling rivalry, you know, brothers sporting against each other in
the backyard or you know, or trying to see who
can get the best on a mass test or whatever.
Nothing wrong with a bit of that.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I guess. The thing is it's usually skewed sibling rivalry
because unless you're twins, it's always older or younger sister
brother sort of thing. And so there is a natural
I mean I didn't. I was always competing with my
with my, with my brothers because I was the youngest.
You have nothing to lose, you know, even if we
had a fight, I would be swinging full firsts, never connecting,
(30:58):
while they'd be laughing at me sort.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Of go, yeah, look, I agree. It's never going to
be a fair competition on this, as you say, and
this you're twins. But that's look, I think a lot
of us have learned a little bit from that. Again,
parents have got some can set some limits and rules
around it. I would struggle to think of any family
I've come across where there wasn't a bit of a rivalry,
(31:22):
a bit of competition between the siblings. It just seems
part of growing up really, you know, the younger ones
trying to trying to outdo the older ones, and once
in a blue moon you get one over on them
when it feels like Christmas. It's you know, it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I think, actually, I think I'd probably be more worried
if there wasn't any if you know, because maybe it
depends on what environment you grow up in where there's
a natural bit of competition between kids. Because if if
there isn't some sort of rivalry between them, it would
mean that one of the siblings, or let's just say
(31:56):
the couple is just I don't know, then i'd be
worried about their lack of engagement in a way. But
that's overthinking things probably surely. Yeah, I mean that's what. Yeah,
that's what. That's what should be the mottover show overthinking parents.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Overthinking parenting. I thought, Look, I think you can overthink
it at times, can't you? But but look, I can't
think of many families I would have met, or including
my own, where there's not a bit of rivalry between
siblings at some point around some things, why can't I
do and say why can't I do that? Well, it's
because you're younger, it's because you're little er, it's because
you're smaller. Well, I'm going to strive and be better. Then, Yeah,
(32:32):
I think it's I think it's fairly natural.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I'd say, is that also part of I mean, the
part of having siblings and just life. Isn't it that
you know, you work out there are people who are
younger than you, there are people are older than you,
and and there are always differences and and sibling rivals
rivalry sometimes as a way of just working that out,
is it?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's healthy, you know,
recognizing that people there are differences between us and and
we might have to treat each other differently. Hopefully the
older siblings are a bit more developed and can have
a little bit of empathy and a bit of compassion
for the younger one. That will be a journey to
But yeah, I think there's a lot of nice life
lessons that not everything in life is equal and but
(33:11):
and sometimes we need to recognize that and treat people accordingly.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, is it ever a How would you know you
had a problem with sibling rivalry? Because I don't know
how much control can parents actually have over that, because
you will have sometimes kids who are naturally competitive and
just I mean, for me, I can imagine, I don't
know if our kids really have much sibling rivalry. There's
usually the odd argument here about this and that, but
it's not so much about rivalry, just about I don't know,
(33:38):
wanting something the other one hasn't got yet or something.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yeah. Yeah. I usually operate on a pretty pragmatic rule
that a problems not a problem until it's causing a problem.
So you know, there's no problem with civil rivalry until
you know somebody's coming home with a broken bone, and well,
I think that might have gone a little bit too far,
or that there's some real you know, I have certainly
seen kids who are feeling very very much like they're
(34:03):
getting the short end of the stick down, but that's
often because they're not being recognized by their parents, so
it's coming back to parents again rather than siblings. But
I think a little bit of healthy competition sibling rivalry
is just normal in most families. But unless it's causing
a problem, it probably don't need to get too involved
(34:24):
in it.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, I mean, would there be an example you can
think of where you think, oh, my goodness, we're really
going to have to do something about this, because they're
just everything. They would compete for who gets to the
dinner table first, who gets Look how much steak they've
got more steak than me? He got this before this?
And you know why, Look they've got more more fruit
juice in their glass. It's just the non stop stuff.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah. I've certainly seen families where that's the case, where
and often it's the younger siblings as going and it's
a constant thing. They've always got this, they've always got more,
And I think it when it's getting like that, it's like, actually,
we need to start paying attention to what the theme
here is. And the theme is that always this particular
sibling is feeling outdone and it's unfair, and we need
(35:07):
to be careful because there might be something under that
that they do feel that there's some unfair us or injustice,
and and take a little bit of account of that,
and watch what we're doing as adults that we're not
reinforcing that. You know.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
The classic one I would I've noticed is usually like
someone's got more mass potato on their plate. I always think,
you know what, I'd actually struggle with that because it's like, well,
hang on a minute, maybe that's right.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Maybe yeah, certainly want more if you're fourteen than if
you're four, But but I certainly think of it's all
the time, constant, constant, It has that really of its
impacting sort of the the emotions of that younger one
who's who feels always aggressive angry towards somebody else. Then
I think you need to do something about it.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, I think what I might have done once when
somebody was complaining about how much mass potato they had,
I took I took another mouthful and ate it myself
and said, you want to keep complaining.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
I always find that works.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Quite well anyway.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Yeah, the giving it up anyway.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Hey, great talking to you Google, And again, if people
want to get in touch, they can get it in
touch with you at your umbrella dot org dot nz.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
That's the one. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
What are your challenges for the week or are you
going to choose some granddad clothes?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
My challenges for the week I don't know. I haven't
actually looked at my diary. The challenge will be looking
at my diary on Monday and going cranky. I forgot
I had that.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
On Okay, Hey, thanks so much mate. I really enjoy
appreciate it talking to you and we'll look forward to
next time.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Nice to chat. Thanks Jim.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
There we go. That is Google Sutherland and you can
check him out at Umbrella Wellbeing. Of course if you can't,
if you forget websites, just look for the organization Umbrella
Wellbeing on Google. I'm sure we'll take you to the
right place. Google Sutherland. We will be back shortly to
wrap sport a larger part of fews with us because
at the moment the Fiji and Drew are playing the Chiefs,
and we'll also be previewing minea pacifica versus the Hurricanes
(36:58):
later on this evening, News Talks will be eleven to six.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Talk Said Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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