July 12, 2025 • 36 mins
Kids can eventually turn a corner where they get a bit more stubborn when it comes to listening to us.
Sometimes it's just them being cheeky, sometimes it's a bit rude, sometimes it's just a miscommunication.
But how do you stay boss in the relationship? Should you even do it or is it something to worry about?
Tim Beveridge is joined by Family and Parent Coach Jenny Hale for Parent Squad...
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
at b.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This is well,
this is the Parents Squad. By the way, if you
must lead an fascinating conversation, as we always do whenever
we have Brad Olsen on the show. For the one
Rufradio show was his first time as our guest's guest,
and we were having a chat about the basically the
cash right as well as things to do with when
your gut instinct helps you make the decisions ahead of
(01:08):
the facts. But yeah, his reflections on what the cash
rate means for the property market and a whole bunch
of things around that.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
If you miss that.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hour, then you can go and listen to our podcast,
go to the we Can Collective on News Talks you
Beat at Curtain in z or you can also go
to iHeartRadio and it's pretty.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Easy to find.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
And we do get each hour because it doesn't happen
in real time, but we get each hour loaded up
as its own little portion for your listening pleasure pretty
quickly after each hour is concluded, so hopefully it'll be
up there pretty soon, if not already, but right now
it's the Parent Squad and we want your cause as well.
You're welcome to join the conversation and crash the chat
I'm going to be having with our guests. So I'll
introduce injust at tech, but we're going to be having
(01:45):
a chat a talk about how you deal with strong
willed children and recognizing when you actually have a child
who's maybe not just a little bit independent, but pretty
strong willed, and how do you manage that during the
course of your relationship with them. Is there a point
when they get to when kids get to a certain age,
they all become strong wild because they're exercising independence. So
(02:06):
how do you recognize a strong willed child? Is it
just a child who's a little bit cheeky?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
What is it? What does a strong willed child look like?
And how do you deal with it?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
We want your calls on eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty text nine two nine two and to discuss it.
We are joined by Family and Parent coach who is
with us for the Parents Squad, Jenny Hale.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
How are you, Jenny?
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Nice to see you, Hey, great to be here and
I'm well, I'm really well, thanks Tom.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Have you so strong willed children, is it? My first
question would be how many kids are genuinely strong willed
and difficult to deal with just because I don't know
do they have?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
What is a strong willed child?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
I think this is a tricky question because, like you said,
kids are going through stages where they are really wanting
some agency and independence and they want to own the
decisions and they want to kind of rule the world.
And you know, if they're two or if they're twelve,
they're going to be hitting those stages anyway. But a
strong will I think there's some extra factors to them.
(03:07):
They are often wanting to be in control all the time,
They want to make the decisions, they don't ever want
to back down, they hate losing. They they're just very,
very determined to kind of lead the way. And sometimes
that's because a parent might have given the vacancy for a
(03:30):
parent to the child, or sometimes apparent parents just look
at this kid and think where did you come from?
And like we both know, sometimes we think, actually it's
probably in the gene pool and does exist exist in
the parents as well.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I have I have seen couples who have you know,
one will say about the other, one might say about dad,
and they'll talk about the child, and I have no
idea where they get that characteristic from when maybe it's
stirring them, not straight in the face, but maybe in
the mirror. I mean, are we I don't know what.
I can see bits of my children at times, and
(04:07):
sometimes an unfavorable behavior.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
But I don't know how quick I am.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Actually that's almost a separate question. But are you, I
mean you're a parent, do you have you had moments
where you've wondered to yourself, where do they get this from?
And somebody looks at you and says, Jenny, Jenny, the
carbon copy of you.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Well, we've we've perhaps raised a strong, wild child perhaps,
and they're an adult now, they're still strong world And
I would definitely see some characteristics more in my husband
than in me. But maybe we do that because we're
uncomfortable with some of the things. But I remember thinking
she's more determined, she wants to do things her own way,
(04:51):
kind of more than I did. And maybe it's place
in the family and stuff like that. But yeah, you
can get some surprises where you think the strength of
this child is amazing me.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay, because there might be people who are listening and saying, well,
if you've got a strong, wild child and you look
at the strength of their personality, they just let them
go because they sound like they're they're awesome.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
They are awesome, and there's definitely things that we should
be calling out the gold and these kids. Sometimes we
just roll our eyes and we give the impression that
we think they're weird, or they're too hard for us,
or they're yeah, much too hard to handle them. So
we give them often negative labeling, slight come instead of
(05:35):
being you know, relentless. Instead of saying relentless, maybe we
should say, you've got amazing persistence, determination, you've got tenacity,
You're you're going somewhere with this. But we often throw
our hands up and just think you are making my
life stubborn little Yeah you are, you are. We take
it very personally. When I've had so many parents see
(06:00):
me over the years who've said, who've come because they
told a strong world and while they're young, I think, yeah,
it's really hard. But often you've got to talk to
people who've had a strong child and they've raised one,
Like I had one mum who came to the course,
so I used to run called the strong.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Child she came to it for me, literally had a
course for strong.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Oh. You'd be amazed how many people turned up and
they would look around and think the rumor is full,
and they'd actually just feel better simply just.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
By turning up and going I'm not alone. Actually, I
think that that's I think that's the case with many
challenges we have in life, isn't it. In fact, I've
just been on I've just been on a holiday with
my family and one of the places we're inton stayed
(06:50):
is the o House Ski Lodge. I don't know if
it's called the ski lodge, but it's the lodge at Ohau,
and you stay in a variety of different sorts of
accommodation and it's all but everyone dines together. They put
a set menu on. And I will say that one
of the things I did struggle with was part of
the sort of culture of the place. It seems that
(07:11):
parents check in and they let their kids link up
with other kids, and there's this like this marauding pack
of untamed mischief roaring through And I don't know where
I'm going with this, but it's I think there is.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Ah, That's where I'm going.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
It's the idea that parents see their other children behaving
in different ways and they go, thank god, oh, thank goodness,
I'm not alone.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
You love to think we're not at the worst end
of the scale. There's other kids that are like this.
But the course just showed people there are lots of
us who are struggling with us, and I think we
all want to be in good company.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So what's the difference between just a child who wants
to do things. They've got a bit of their outgoing,
they're extra it, they want to do things, and their
bit of determination.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
When does that When is that a problem?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Then? I think if it's left unchecked, or if they
don't feel a connection to their parents, if the relationship
is such that a child feels that they have to
kind of really knuckle down and be obstinate, powerful, tricky
(08:29):
all the time, and when a parent just sort of says, oh,
I don't know what to do with you. I don't
think that's good. Or when you feel so enraged with
them that you're constantly being punitive.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Is that the problem? Those are the problems that arise
with strong old children, is that it just creates conflict
when really you need to well, firstly, I would imagine
pick your battles Number one. Is that part of the thing,
is it pick your battles or.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
It's learning to know what is a good thing to
give them their head on. Yeah, here's one that a
family has shared with me. They, you know, the daughter
wanted to cook, maybe she was about eight, and they
gave her recipe books and stuff like that and said,
you're you're allowed to be in the kitchen, you're allowed
to cook, but you've got to use a recipe. Well,
she didn't want to use a recipe, okay, So she
(09:21):
wanted to invent and create and work out what how
do things work together? So they made a call to
let it. They sort of obviously decided this wasn't a
battle that we should fight for, and they let her
have her head. And she created a mess and some
ingredients and made stuff and some of it didn't work.
(09:43):
And they managed to refrain from saying I told you so,
because that's not a helpful thing to say to a
kid who's working stuff out. I knew it wouldn't work
if you'd only listened to me. These kids have to
have some head space, They have to be given the
dignity of working things out. So we can do those
(10:06):
over things that aren't life threatening, and messing a few
ingredients up isn't. And I think that one of the
things these kids love to have is a little bit
of room to problem solve, to have ideas and not
always be told no, that's not going to work, no,
do as you're told.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well, I think I might file that one because if
I had a willful childis says I one to cook,
and I said, look, I'll give you some guidance as
to how you get started and make sure we would
do this together. And if they were insisting under it andselves,
I say, I'll be honest with you, Jenny, I would
probably say, well, okay, but if it doesn't work out,
then it's on you. And if it didn't work, oh,
(10:45):
I would say I told you so. But it wouldn't
be because I'm trying to prove them right. I'm just trying.
I would be wanting them to go, Yes, sure, have
a bit of leeway, but use use other tools in
the kitchen, such as, g mum, what if I do this,
will this work?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Well? Maybe maybe not? You know what I mean. Balancing.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, we want our kids to obviously tap into a
little bit of logic. But for some of these kids,
they will learn the best by experimenting, by working it
out themselves and coming to the conclusion that didn't work. Now,
this particular person that I'm talking about happens to have
been a really good cook.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Now heston bloonamny chance, But it sort of shows that.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
I think we need to honor some of their skills
and their sort of their willful, persistent desire to do
things their own way.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Okay, how would you navigate it when it's like, look, okay,
that's fine, but you're not using any sharp knives or
hot you know, And they're like, no, I'm going to
do it myself, and I'm sorry, but we're not going
to let them chop their fingers off and go I
told you so. So some how would you Well, I
guess as a parent, you say, well, you're not going
to do it.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yeah, well you are gay these with me. Safety is
in our courts. Parents don't let kids of handle sharp
knives when they're young. But you could say I'll do
the cut, I'll do the things that need chopping, you
do the rest. If they say no, then okay, you're
in the lead as a parent and it's not going
to work. But often we can come to a compromise
(12:21):
and you can say, this is my job, and that's
to keep you safe. And when you're ten, I bet
you'll be able to do this. Right Now, you're seven
and you.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Can't right yet.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
How Look, I'm going to ask questions where I'm not
sure if I'm framing it the right way. But I've
got a text here that also touches on this question.
How do you find the line in regards to willful
children difficult children? But then also with regards to behavior
that might be, to use the cliche, on the spectrum
are strong willed children?
Speaker 4 (12:53):
You know? Oh yeah, it's really hard to tell if
a child is on the spectrum. And so I think
what makes parents nervous is they're scared to be stepping
in as the because they think, well, maybe there's some
neurodiversity here, and you know me, there's some complexity here.
Wherever your child is, they still need to be parented.
(13:14):
They need to be loved, and they need to be nurtured,
and they need to be given space to create, and
they need to learn from their mistakes. And they don't
need a lot of lectures from us so whether you know,
we're not going to be I'm not able to diagnose children,
but I do know that lots of kids are out
(13:36):
there who are just dying for a bit of a
break and a bit of the sense from a parent
that we're going to give them agency and let's have
a talk about it afterwards and see how it went.
And maybe instead of saying, well, look, if you just
followed a recipe, it what a word? Maybe if you
said any learnings from that might love did you find
(13:57):
out anything that you do differently next time? A strong
will child will probably say nope, nothing, and then they'll
go away and they'll think about it and they will
take some learnings from it. But we've got to be
patient and not always have to have the last word.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
So when we're it's reiterating if you've just joined us,
we're talking about strong world children, but we're talking about
in the context of when it can be a problem,
aren't we, Jenny. So it's not like you've just got
some child who's determined to do things, but.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
And it's avoiding having.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Problems, isn't it really where you just have a child
who's where it affects the relationship in a way, they
just push back against everything you're doing, and which is
leading to a question I guess would be how much
of having a strong world child is a problem because
parents in a way are absent from having regular engagement
(14:52):
with their kids, to all of a sudden it becomes
a problem. And I don't want to say we blame
the parents because it's their fault. But if you have
a child who is strong world and you are constantly
engaged with their life and constantly sort of massaging them
from left to right and negotiating or then you have
a relationship where they fit into that. Whereas if your
(15:12):
hands off and you're too busy, you're too busy, and
all of a sudden you've got this kid who's old
enough to really be assertive, that's when it would be
a problem.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I guess that's.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
When they have detached from you, because they We've got
to cultivate this connection with our kids. That is the
most important thing in parenting is our relationship. So if
you've been hands off and your kids have been allowed
to do what they like, and then all of a
sudden you think, oh, good grief, look at the peers
(15:41):
or whatever, and you jump in you may find that
they have the relationship isn't there to work with. So
it's doing the things like family holidays and family meals
and going for a walk with them and insisting that
they come bike riding with you, and reading to them,
and being playful and being fun and engaged with them,
(16:03):
front footing the connection. We often wait for trouble and
then we think, oh, yeah, I probably should spend time
with my kids. Actually it's it's daily. Our kids need
a good dose of us daily, and we've got to
front foot this. I think that often we react when
we see the behavior going and think, oh, right now,
(16:24):
now there's trouble, and I'm going to have to get involved.
When we leave our kids and we sort of move
out of the arena, our kids will do stuff that
we won't be happy with. So this ongoing relationship is really,
really important.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
You mentioned at the start of the conversation around this
issue of strong willed children, you mentioned a couple of numbers.
I wrote them down two and twelve because we all
know the terrible the terrible twos. Is there something in
a child's development that, I mean, what is the terrible?
What are the terrible twos?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
God? I'm so I'm so waffly. What are the terrible twos?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
And why is that.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
That's something that all kids go through? Is it most kids?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
There's a stage where lots and lots of two year
olds are going to go through the me mine, I
do it that they want that they're exploring what it
feels like to have a will and to be independent
and to have agency and do things themselves. And they
want to do things themselves that they can't yet do.
They want to put their shoes on and they're too
(17:25):
and they can't manage that yet. So they're having lots
of disappointment and frustration and anger because of what they
want that they can't yet do. And it's very natural.
And sometimes I think a parent looks at a two
year old and things, oh my goodness, I'm something's wrong
with my parenting, something wrong with my child, when actually
(17:48):
we just need to remember kids go through these stages
twelve year olds. Look, it could be a ten year old.
It's so undefined, but kids go through stages where they
really want to be able to do some things for themselves.
They want some of the control. It looks like they
want all of the control, and we need to give them.
Some of the control is the two.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Year old thing. Is it a result of you.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Know that, look they're helpless infantry a mulei and puking
when they're born, and you know, and they've got to
rely on moment and then they learn to walk and
then they get a little bit more agency and control
over their limbs. Is it tied to actual physical competency
that suddenly they realize, hey, look I can walk, I
can run, and they feel this world of possibilities up
(18:34):
and up, so their mind goes, no, I want the
world because I'm feeling I'm feeling physically in control of
myself more than before.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Oh yeah, that physical competency is surging and helping them
kind of break into the next stage. And in a way,
thank goodness, they do want to have a go and
stretch and fly, but they don't do it with please
may I do this? Mummy and Daddy, it's let me
(19:04):
at it. And when you let's say, you just put
a piece of the puzzle in that they were going
to do, there'll offer be an outrage with disappointment and
rage and anger that you have taken something that they
could have done. And often they will start again just
to get back what you took off them. So we've
(19:26):
we've got to look for opportunities to guide them, and
we've also got I think our style is really important.
Like if you are punitive and angry and fearful of
their big feelings, that's not great. They're going to have
big feelings and we need to let those feelings ride,
(19:48):
but not give in if you have. If your strong
will child is kicking the back of your seat while
you're driving, you need you need to stop. You need
to find a place to stop and pull over and
say the car's not going until it's safe. And kicking
isn't safe. Tim you could say, don't you dare kick
(20:09):
the back of my seat. If you do that again,
I will You will probably get another kick because you
have just invited them to the fight. So you can
be firm without engaging a fight.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Hey, actually we're going to dig into this a bit more.
By the way, can give us a call and interrupt.
You can interrupt us and contribute your contributions to the conversation.
On eight hundred eighty ten eighty. My guest is Jenny Hall.
We're talking about dealing with strong wood kids and when
is it and when isn't it such the problem eight
hundred eighty ten eighty text nine nine two.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
It's a twenty seven past five.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
If you're feeling down to swallow make you happy?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yes, welcome back to the parents Squad. My guest is
Jenny Hale from the Parenting Place parenting. Actually, I need
to check that that website again. I would think always
add of the it's just Jenny, it's just Parenting Place
dot in z. Is it. Yeah, We've got it parent
I mean, let's face it, if you just google Jenny
Hale h a LA Parenting Place, I'm sure it will
pop up that website when you want. We're talking about
(21:15):
strong willed children. And before we go any further, actually,
there is an online course that people can access, isn't
there if they go to where can they access that?
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Just go to the Parentingplace dot n z. If you
want to do forward slash courses, you'll get it that way.
But if you just use our Parenting Place dot nz
website you'll see it there. It's a course to really
designed to help parents who are feeling like they've tried
everything there get their WIT's end. They feel stuck, they
(21:45):
feel negative about their child, they love their child, just
don't enjoy them that much. It's probably a really good
course to do in your own time and just get
that sense of yay, there's other people out there because
they've actually written a course for parents like me, but
to give you something really cool to do, because I
(22:06):
think these kids are often they're often very bright, they're sharp,
and we get stuck in a sort of a conflict
with them where we just feel like we're nagging, they're
not listening, they're overruling us, they're doing stuff that really
annoys us. And then we get anxious because we think
(22:27):
this kid is going to have no friends at school
or get sent out or whatever, and we then start
kind of in our reaction that we do some things
that aren't helpful, like we start threatening, we start punishing. So, yeah,
there's ways that we get stuck with these kids.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
We've got a text here someone says, our kids learned
seat belt etiquette by the stopping of the car and
telling them that we would crash if they're not belted in.
But it reminds me of that we were talking just
before the break our children misbehaving last and for instance,
you're driving, just pull the car up and stop and
say you're not going any further. I sometimes wish I
was in the car when they're behaving badly or not.
(23:09):
Now they're pretty good girls actually, but in the past,
because there was one time when they were just arguing
and I just thought, that's it. I'm gonna if I
get distracted, We're gonna have a crash. So I literally
is pulled over and I just turned the car up
and said, and they said, what are you doing. I said,
We're not going any further and until what? And I said,
until you stop arguing. But of course that is actually
(23:30):
fantastically effective.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Yeah, and you see you what you did there, Tim
was you didn't use lots of words. There was an action,
not a nag, not a growl, not a complaint, like
this is this isn't happening. We're not moving. And I
think we need to do more of that. We do
a lot of I think parents are really generous, but
they all put out with stuff many many times, and
(23:54):
then we'll lose it. Yeah, we'll start yelling and exploding
and then we'll feel terrible and we'll compensate with some
treat and our kids get com fused. And I think
we need to act before we're angry, and I think
we need to have some plans. I say to people
who've let's say that they're taking their kids out for
a treat. They're going somewhere and the kids are fighting.
(24:16):
I know we're back in the car where it's a
bit easier, but I say, do a U turn, go home.
Just say to your kids, I'm sorry, this isn't how
our family behaves.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
What if you're not because the car is great, I'm
I assure there are many parents go, oh goodness, man,
I'm glad they're behaving badly in the car, so I
can pull over and do that stunt.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Maybe not, but what if you're not.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
What are those sort of powerful things you can do
which are effective in letting your kids know and recognize
that something's not right when you're just at home.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yep, Sometimes you just have to leave it till everyone's
got calmer. Because if your child is raging and you
think that you can have a good conversation with them
and perhaps throw a consequence in there and that it's
all going to be fine. Often we've just got to
let things. We say strike when the iron's cold, wait,
(25:08):
have a talk. You know, the times that parents have
told me that they've reconnected with their child when they've
done something they're really mad about, but they've reconnected first
with a peace offering. And I know that sounds. But
you might take them a milo, sit on their bed.
It might be your teenager and you say, hey, tell
me a bit more about what was going on, and
(25:30):
they've done something that you're really mad with. Then they've
dropped their guard. You're using something that's a relationship to
work on and they say they will often say, yeah,
that wasn't great. I know, and I'm sorry. If you'd
gone in there and said, if you ever talk to
me like that again, I'll and then you're yeah, and
(25:50):
then you know that you won't. You're not helping at all.
So we've sort of got to do things that are relational.
Sometimes there will be a limit set, and yes, it
may be that there's some screen time or something that
they're not going to be able to do. Well, you're
going to delay something and you're not taking them down
to the mall or whatever. But that is not your
best tool. That is something you can use. There are
(26:14):
many other things that you can do, and they are
often when you get alongside I remember years ago when
I had been particularly offside. I was a horsey girl.
I'd been rude to my mum. I remember that I
was tired and hungry. She must have known that because
I was sent to my room and I was sulking.
(26:35):
She came in with a plateful of egg sandwiches, had
the crust cut off, passing in them, all things that
were my favorite. I was completely disarmed. I thought my
mom understands and loves me, and I changed my whole
behavior change and I peecked up and I was sorry
(26:56):
for what i'd done. If I'd been told to stay
there until I could say I'm sorry, I probably would
have just dug my page.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
The exactly the opposite of what some parents gut instincts
might be is to try and offer a punishment. And
do you think it was because she recognized that you
were just out of your sorts and she did something
to bring something in and say.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I see you, sort of.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Shed I see you. I know that you are probably
tired and hungry. I've been busy, and this is probably
the thing that will reconnect us and we can talk
about the behavior later if we need to. She didn't
need to, because that won my heart.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
It's funny. It makes it.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I mean, it's just when you tell that. I mean,
it's quite an emotional story in a way, because it's funny,
isn't it that there are moments when our parents and
there are certain things with my parents said that that
just may remind you. In fact, I'm lucky that for
me and maybe for you as well, that there were
those moments where they said an example where you.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Recall that years later.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
I do that with my I try and do that
with my kids, because there'll be a moment where my
dad or my mum handled something with more empathy than
I was expecting, and I remember thinking that's the way.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
To do it. That's quite that's quite a useful. I
tell you what.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
We'll take quick break and we'll come back in just
a moment. It's twenty two minutes to six news talks.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
He'd be.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
News talks, there'd be This is the parent Squad. My
guess is Jenny Hall from the Parenting Place. Parentingplace dot
n Z is the address parents.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Jenny.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
You mentioned that you've held courses or I think that's
the right word seminars course, But you've had a course
for people who've got parents who've got strong willed children.
Are they particular common sort of issues that those parents
would often face where they are like the minds I mean,
(29:02):
apart from the broad question of a strong willed child,
is there any particular issue or solution that pops up
as something that's easy, easier to fix, or that's common
to most of them? I think, how in a second,
I just turn your microphone.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Sorry, that's my fault.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
I think what's common for these parents is that often
the relationship feels like it's going sour, that they feel
like their kids aren't listening to them, they're not doing
as they're told, they're not compliant, and a parent will
often feel very lost. What was the other question?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I know that it was.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Actually I was going to lead into the question I
interrupted myself about what not to do? Actually that was
the is there are there certain things that parents can
avoid doing or should try and avoid doing with a
strong willed child?
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Yeah? I think there are some helpful things, because when
we are angry, we often do stuff that we think,
why did I why did I yell? Or you know,
why did I say that? I think that we can
invite our kids to the fight much more than we
need to just by using fighting language. And a lot
of fighting language starts with not only the tone of voice,
(30:12):
but the facial expression that you know, the finger wagging.
If you fight with fighting words, your child will put
their boxing gloves on and fight back. A strong all
child is instinctive in their need to fight back, so
they're not just going to say, oh, okay, I won't
(30:34):
do that anymore. They will fight back. So fighting words
are like don't you dare? Or if you do that
one more time? That is saying come and fight me.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
What about.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
I have had a moment where I'm not going to
say I'll get the sulks, but I deliberately shut down
on one of my children, who is really rude to me.
Wasn't listening. So I just went, okay, I'm going to
ignore you for quite some time. And I may have
done it for quite a few hours, and in the end,
actually they apologized. But I was thinking at the time,
(31:08):
I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
But I'm also really really cross with you.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Yeah, I think parents sometimes we get wounded in this sults.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I did. I got the sucks, but I also thought,
maybe this is working.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Yeah, that's sort of emotional distancing. I think we can
sometimes pull away and we we lock our wounds. But
I think we need to know that we will never
stop loving them. I think our kids need to know that.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I think maybe I did it at a time when
my daughter was old enough to know. I think I've
hurt daddy's feelings, yeah on something. And as opposed to
daddy's that he doesn't love me longer, I would always
tell that even if she's really really irritated me and say, look,
I still love you.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Don't worry, but bloody hell on the.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Noise and the beauty term is that she knew that
that that love, that unconditional love, is not sabotaged by
their behavior. And sometimes we don't communicate that that we are.
We're so brassed off with them that we pull away,
and some kids almost were with I've lost a connection
(32:15):
and they do more behavior.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
That's tricky because the common issue that would pop up
from many parents, whether they've got a strong will child
is that journey to independence, isn't it? And I think
that that's on that something that I'm probably dealing with
with my kids to age twelve and fourteen and is
and a look of that great girls. I'm not this
is not to do with any behavioral issues on their part,
but I know that at some stage I'm going to
(32:38):
have we have to gradually address the fact that they
are going to make more of their decisions, and some
of them we might not even agree with.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
How do you is that?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
How big a deal is that for Well, it's a
big deal for parents, isn't it. That's immissive from them
being dependent to being independent.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
And we're doing it slowly and steadily, and sometimes we're
doing it similar to our friends, and other times I
think parents have got to say, well, this isn't our
this is our family culture, and we are happy for
this and not happy for that. And we're doing it
with kind of some of the guidelines of knowing that
the safety is there that they can contact us, they
(33:17):
can ring us if they're at a party. You know,
we put some really good scaffolding around things. But our
job is to release our kids so that they have
a conscience and make decisions that aren't because they're fearful
of what's going to happen, but because we have instilled
in them a sense of confidence. I believe in you.
(33:39):
I think you've got this. We're always here for you
if things go wrong, and they will go wrong. But
you want your kids to take risks on things that
are not the big ones. You want them to, you know,
bake in the kitchen and make a mess and have
some disasters. You want them to learn from friendships that
(34:00):
some things work well and some don't. You want to
be able to chat to them through stuff that they're
struggling with, and for them to know that you'll listen
more than you will convince. We don't do enough listening.
We're scared that our kids are going to get it wrong,
so that we keep having to tell them this is
what you're meant to do, but actually we should leave
(34:23):
things a little bit and say this is what this
is what I hear you saying.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Okay, because when they you know, if you're a parent
who wants their child when they start exercising independence to say,
you want to say to them, look, I don't care
how bad it is, you can always turn to me.
You really do need to have found opportunities to demonstrate
that before the big issues come along, And don't you
if you.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Have had to pick them up from things in situations
where they've got into trouble and they have had to
know that you are with them, and even if you haven't,
you don't agree with it, and you can talk about
it later. They need to know. Bottom line from experience,
Mum or dad or who was caring for me has
(35:07):
got my back.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Great, great stuff, Jenny, Hey, And again if you would
interested in getting some assistance with your parenting, whether it
be on strong willed children or anything, the website to
go to is Parentingplace Dottie and z and there is
a course for parents who an online course. Therefore, parents,
have you got an issue with strong willed children? Actually
a plenty of online.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Courses as well. It's not the only one, of course,
is Jenny.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
No, there's a really good one on anxiety too. So
parents are often wondering, is this anxiety out of the field?
Is it something I need to see a psychologist about?
And the course will take you through stuff that will
just help you kind of you with your own anxiety
and with your kids' anxiety.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Great stuff, hey, Jenny, great to see again. Thank you
so much for coming in. That wraps the parents Squad
until next time. We'll be back with We're wrapping sport
with Jason Pine will be joining us in just a moment.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
It's eleven and a half minutes to Sex News Talks.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
He'd be gay. We could break it in.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
M bust some.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
We could break it in. If you know Abby Puss,
some Bazon, we could break it in. If you know
Adam put some Bason.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
It For more from the Weekend Collective. Listen live to
News Talks It'd be weekends from three pm, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
at b.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This is well,
this is the Parents Squad. By the way, if you
must lead an fascinating conversation, as we always do whenever
we have Brad Olsen on the show. For the one
Rufradio show was his first time as our guest's guest,
and we were having a chat about the basically the
cash right as well as things to do with when
your gut instinct helps you make the decisions ahead of
(01:08):
the facts. But yeah, his reflections on what the cash
rate means for the property market and a whole bunch
of things around that.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
If you miss that.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hour, then you can go and listen to our podcast,
go to the we Can Collective on News Talks you
Beat at Curtain in z or you can also go
to iHeartRadio and it's pretty.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Easy to find.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
And we do get each hour because it doesn't happen
in real time, but we get each hour loaded up
as its own little portion for your listening pleasure pretty
quickly after each hour is concluded, so hopefully it'll be
up there pretty soon, if not already, but right now
it's the Parent Squad and we want your cause as well.
You're welcome to join the conversation and crash the chat
I'm going to be having with our guests. So I'll
introduce injust at tech, but we're going to be having
(01:45):
a chat a talk about how you deal with strong
willed children and recognizing when you actually have a child
who's maybe not just a little bit independent, but pretty
strong willed, and how do you manage that during the
course of your relationship with them. Is there a point
when they get to when kids get to a certain age,
they all become strong wild because they're exercising independence. So
(02:06):
how do you recognize a strong willed child? Is it
just a child who's a little bit cheeky?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
What is it? What does a strong willed child look like?
And how do you deal with it?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
We want your calls on eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty text nine two nine two and to discuss it.
We are joined by Family and Parent coach who is
with us for the Parents Squad, Jenny Hale.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
How are you, Jenny?
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Nice to see you, Hey, great to be here and
I'm well, I'm really well, thanks Tom.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Have you so strong willed children, is it? My first
question would be how many kids are genuinely strong willed
and difficult to deal with just because I don't know
do they have?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
What is a strong willed child?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
I think this is a tricky question because, like you said,
kids are going through stages where they are really wanting
some agency and independence and they want to own the
decisions and they want to kind of rule the world.
And you know, if they're two or if they're twelve,
they're going to be hitting those stages anyway. But a
strong will I think there's some extra factors to them.
(03:07):
They are often wanting to be in control all the time,
They want to make the decisions, they don't ever want
to back down, they hate losing. They they're just very,
very determined to kind of lead the way. And sometimes
that's because a parent might have given the vacancy for a
(03:30):
parent to the child, or sometimes apparent parents just look
at this kid and think where did you come from?
And like we both know, sometimes we think, actually it's
probably in the gene pool and does exist exist in
the parents as well.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I have I have seen couples who have you know,
one will say about the other, one might say about dad,
and they'll talk about the child, and I have no
idea where they get that characteristic from when maybe it's
stirring them, not straight in the face, but maybe in
the mirror. I mean, are we I don't know what.
I can see bits of my children at times, and
(04:07):
sometimes an unfavorable behavior.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
But I don't know how quick I am.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Actually that's almost a separate question. But are you, I
mean you're a parent, do you have you had moments
where you've wondered to yourself, where do they get this from?
And somebody looks at you and says, Jenny, Jenny, the
carbon copy of you.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Well, we've we've perhaps raised a strong, wild child perhaps,
and they're an adult now, they're still strong world And
I would definitely see some characteristics more in my husband
than in me. But maybe we do that because we're
uncomfortable with some of the things. But I remember thinking
she's more determined, she wants to do things her own way,
(04:51):
kind of more than I did. And maybe it's place
in the family and stuff like that. But yeah, you
can get some surprises where you think the strength of
this child is amazing me.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay, because there might be people who are listening and saying, well,
if you've got a strong, wild child and you look
at the strength of their personality, they just let them
go because they sound like they're they're awesome.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
They are awesome, and there's definitely things that we should
be calling out the gold and these kids. Sometimes we
just roll our eyes and we give the impression that
we think they're weird, or they're too hard for us,
or they're yeah, much too hard to handle them. So
we give them often negative labeling, slight come instead of
(05:35):
being you know, relentless. Instead of saying relentless, maybe we
should say, you've got amazing persistence, determination, you've got tenacity,
You're you're going somewhere with this. But we often throw
our hands up and just think you are making my
life stubborn little Yeah you are, you are. We take
it very personally. When I've had so many parents see
(06:00):
me over the years who've said, who've come because they
told a strong world and while they're young, I think, yeah,
it's really hard. But often you've got to talk to
people who've had a strong child and they've raised one,
Like I had one mum who came to the course,
so I used to run called the strong.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Child she came to it for me, literally had a
course for strong.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Oh. You'd be amazed how many people turned up and
they would look around and think the rumor is full,
and they'd actually just feel better simply just.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
By turning up and going I'm not alone. Actually, I
think that that's I think that's the case with many
challenges we have in life, isn't it. In fact, I've
just been on I've just been on a holiday with
my family and one of the places we're inton stayed
(06:50):
is the o House Ski Lodge. I don't know if
it's called the ski lodge, but it's the lodge at Ohau,
and you stay in a variety of different sorts of
accommodation and it's all but everyone dines together. They put
a set menu on. And I will say that one
of the things I did struggle with was part of
the sort of culture of the place. It seems that
(07:11):
parents check in and they let their kids link up
with other kids, and there's this like this marauding pack
of untamed mischief roaring through And I don't know where
I'm going with this, but it's I think there is.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Ah, That's where I'm going.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
It's the idea that parents see their other children behaving
in different ways and they go, thank god, oh, thank goodness,
I'm not alone.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
You love to think we're not at the worst end
of the scale. There's other kids that are like this.
But the course just showed people there are lots of
us who are struggling with us, and I think we
all want to be in good company.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So what's the difference between just a child who wants
to do things. They've got a bit of their outgoing,
they're extra it, they want to do things, and their
bit of determination.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
When does that When is that a problem?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Then? I think if it's left unchecked, or if they
don't feel a connection to their parents, if the relationship
is such that a child feels that they have to
kind of really knuckle down and be obstinate, powerful, tricky
(08:29):
all the time, and when a parent just sort of says, oh,
I don't know what to do with you. I don't
think that's good. Or when you feel so enraged with
them that you're constantly being punitive.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Is that the problem? Those are the problems that arise
with strong old children, is that it just creates conflict
when really you need to well, firstly, I would imagine
pick your battles Number one. Is that part of the thing,
is it pick your battles or.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
It's learning to know what is a good thing to
give them their head on. Yeah, here's one that a
family has shared with me. They, you know, the daughter
wanted to cook, maybe she was about eight, and they
gave her recipe books and stuff like that and said,
you're you're allowed to be in the kitchen, you're allowed
to cook, but you've got to use a recipe. Well,
she didn't want to use a recipe, okay, So she
(09:21):
wanted to invent and create and work out what how
do things work together? So they made a call to
let it. They sort of obviously decided this wasn't a
battle that we should fight for, and they let her
have her head. And she created a mess and some
ingredients and made stuff and some of it didn't work.
(09:43):
And they managed to refrain from saying I told you so,
because that's not a helpful thing to say to a
kid who's working stuff out. I knew it wouldn't work
if you'd only listened to me. These kids have to
have some head space, They have to be given the
dignity of working things out. So we can do those
(10:06):
over things that aren't life threatening, and messing a few
ingredients up isn't. And I think that one of the
things these kids love to have is a little bit
of room to problem solve, to have ideas and not
always be told no, that's not going to work, no,
do as you're told.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well, I think I might file that one because if
I had a willful childis says I one to cook,
and I said, look, I'll give you some guidance as
to how you get started and make sure we would
do this together. And if they were insisting under it andselves,
I say, I'll be honest with you, Jenny, I would
probably say, well, okay, but if it doesn't work out,
then it's on you. And if it didn't work, oh,
(10:45):
I would say I told you so. But it wouldn't
be because I'm trying to prove them right. I'm just trying.
I would be wanting them to go, Yes, sure, have
a bit of leeway, but use use other tools in
the kitchen, such as, g mum, what if I do this,
will this work?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Well? Maybe maybe not? You know what I mean. Balancing.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, we want our kids to obviously tap into a
little bit of logic. But for some of these kids,
they will learn the best by experimenting, by working it
out themselves and coming to the conclusion that didn't work. Now,
this particular person that I'm talking about happens to have
been a really good cook.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Now heston bloonamny chance, But it sort of shows that.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
I think we need to honor some of their skills
and their sort of their willful, persistent desire to do
things their own way.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Okay, how would you navigate it when it's like, look, okay,
that's fine, but you're not using any sharp knives or
hot you know, And they're like, no, I'm going to
do it myself, and I'm sorry, but we're not going
to let them chop their fingers off and go I
told you so. So some how would you Well, I
guess as a parent, you say, well, you're not going
to do it.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yeah, well you are gay these with me. Safety is
in our courts. Parents don't let kids of handle sharp
knives when they're young. But you could say I'll do
the cut, I'll do the things that need chopping, you
do the rest. If they say no, then okay, you're
in the lead as a parent and it's not going
to work. But often we can come to a compromise
(12:21):
and you can say, this is my job, and that's
to keep you safe. And when you're ten, I bet
you'll be able to do this. Right Now, you're seven
and you.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Can't right yet.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
How Look, I'm going to ask questions where I'm not
sure if I'm framing it the right way. But I've
got a text here that also touches on this question.
How do you find the line in regards to willful
children difficult children? But then also with regards to behavior
that might be, to use the cliche, on the spectrum
are strong willed children?
Speaker 4 (12:53):
You know? Oh yeah, it's really hard to tell if
a child is on the spectrum. And so I think
what makes parents nervous is they're scared to be stepping
in as the because they think, well, maybe there's some
neurodiversity here, and you know me, there's some complexity here.
Wherever your child is, they still need to be parented.
(13:14):
They need to be loved, and they need to be nurtured,
and they need to be given space to create, and
they need to learn from their mistakes. And they don't
need a lot of lectures from us so whether you know,
we're not going to be I'm not able to diagnose children,
but I do know that lots of kids are out
(13:36):
there who are just dying for a bit of a
break and a bit of the sense from a parent
that we're going to give them agency and let's have
a talk about it afterwards and see how it went.
And maybe instead of saying, well, look, if you just
followed a recipe, it what a word? Maybe if you
said any learnings from that might love did you find
(13:57):
out anything that you do differently next time? A strong
will child will probably say nope, nothing, and then they'll
go away and they'll think about it and they will
take some learnings from it. But we've got to be
patient and not always have to have the last word.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
So when we're it's reiterating if you've just joined us,
we're talking about strong world children, but we're talking about
in the context of when it can be a problem,
aren't we, Jenny. So it's not like you've just got
some child who's determined to do things, but.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
And it's avoiding having.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Problems, isn't it really where you just have a child
who's where it affects the relationship in a way, they
just push back against everything you're doing, and which is
leading to a question I guess would be how much
of having a strong world child is a problem because
parents in a way are absent from having regular engagement
(14:52):
with their kids, to all of a sudden it becomes
a problem. And I don't want to say we blame
the parents because it's their fault. But if you have
a child who is strong world and you are constantly
engaged with their life and constantly sort of massaging them
from left to right and negotiating or then you have
a relationship where they fit into that. Whereas if your
(15:12):
hands off and you're too busy, you're too busy, and
all of a sudden you've got this kid who's old
enough to really be assertive, that's when it would be
a problem.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I guess that's.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
When they have detached from you, because they We've got
to cultivate this connection with our kids. That is the
most important thing in parenting is our relationship. So if
you've been hands off and your kids have been allowed
to do what they like, and then all of a
sudden you think, oh, good grief, look at the peers
(15:41):
or whatever, and you jump in you may find that
they have the relationship isn't there to work with. So
it's doing the things like family holidays and family meals
and going for a walk with them and insisting that
they come bike riding with you, and reading to them,
and being playful and being fun and engaged with them,
(16:03):
front footing the connection. We often wait for trouble and
then we think, oh, yeah, I probably should spend time
with my kids. Actually it's it's daily. Our kids need
a good dose of us daily, and we've got to
front foot this. I think that often we react when
we see the behavior going and think, oh, right now,
(16:24):
now there's trouble, and I'm going to have to get involved.
When we leave our kids and we sort of move
out of the arena, our kids will do stuff that
we won't be happy with. So this ongoing relationship is really,
really important.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
You mentioned at the start of the conversation around this
issue of strong willed children, you mentioned a couple of numbers.
I wrote them down two and twelve because we all
know the terrible the terrible twos. Is there something in
a child's development that, I mean, what is the terrible?
What are the terrible twos?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
God? I'm so I'm so waffly. What are the terrible twos?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
And why is that.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
That's something that all kids go through? Is it most kids?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
There's a stage where lots and lots of two year
olds are going to go through the me mine, I
do it that they want that they're exploring what it
feels like to have a will and to be independent
and to have agency and do things themselves. And they
want to do things themselves that they can't yet do.
They want to put their shoes on and they're too
(17:25):
and they can't manage that yet. So they're having lots
of disappointment and frustration and anger because of what they
want that they can't yet do. And it's very natural.
And sometimes I think a parent looks at a two
year old and things, oh my goodness, I'm something's wrong
with my parenting, something wrong with my child, when actually
(17:48):
we just need to remember kids go through these stages
twelve year olds. Look, it could be a ten year old.
It's so undefined, but kids go through stages where they
really want to be able to do some things for themselves.
They want some of the control. It looks like they
want all of the control, and we need to give them.
Some of the control is the two.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Year old thing. Is it a result of you.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Know that, look they're helpless infantry a mulei and puking
when they're born, and you know, and they've got to
rely on moment and then they learn to walk and
then they get a little bit more agency and control
over their limbs. Is it tied to actual physical competency
that suddenly they realize, hey, look I can walk, I
can run, and they feel this world of possibilities up
(18:34):
and up, so their mind goes, no, I want the
world because I'm feeling I'm feeling physically in control of
myself more than before.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Oh yeah, that physical competency is surging and helping them
kind of break into the next stage. And in a way,
thank goodness, they do want to have a go and
stretch and fly, but they don't do it with please
may I do this? Mummy and Daddy, it's let me
(19:04):
at it. And when you let's say, you just put
a piece of the puzzle in that they were going
to do, there'll offer be an outrage with disappointment and
rage and anger that you have taken something that they
could have done. And often they will start again just
to get back what you took off them. So we've
(19:26):
we've got to look for opportunities to guide them, and
we've also got I think our style is really important.
Like if you are punitive and angry and fearful of
their big feelings, that's not great. They're going to have
big feelings and we need to let those feelings ride,
(19:48):
but not give in if you have. If your strong
will child is kicking the back of your seat while
you're driving, you need you need to stop. You need
to find a place to stop and pull over and
say the car's not going until it's safe. And kicking
isn't safe. Tim you could say, don't you dare kick
(20:09):
the back of my seat. If you do that again,
I will You will probably get another kick because you
have just invited them to the fight. So you can
be firm without engaging a fight.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Hey, actually we're going to dig into this a bit more.
By the way, can give us a call and interrupt.
You can interrupt us and contribute your contributions to the conversation.
On eight hundred eighty ten eighty. My guest is Jenny Hall.
We're talking about dealing with strong wood kids and when
is it and when isn't it such the problem eight
hundred eighty ten eighty text nine nine two.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
It's a twenty seven past five.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
If you're feeling down to swallow make you happy?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yes, welcome back to the parents Squad. My guest is
Jenny Hale from the Parenting Place parenting. Actually, I need
to check that that website again. I would think always
add of the it's just Jenny, it's just Parenting Place
dot in z. Is it. Yeah, We've got it parent
I mean, let's face it, if you just google Jenny
Hale h a LA Parenting Place, I'm sure it will
pop up that website when you want. We're talking about
(21:15):
strong willed children. And before we go any further, actually,
there is an online course that people can access, isn't
there if they go to where can they access that?
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Just go to the Parentingplace dot n z. If you
want to do forward slash courses, you'll get it that way.
But if you just use our Parenting Place dot nz
website you'll see it there. It's a course to really
designed to help parents who are feeling like they've tried
everything there get their WIT's end. They feel stuck, they
(21:45):
feel negative about their child, they love their child, just
don't enjoy them that much. It's probably a really good
course to do in your own time and just get
that sense of yay, there's other people out there because
they've actually written a course for parents like me, but
to give you something really cool to do, because I
(22:06):
think these kids are often they're often very bright, they're sharp,
and we get stuck in a sort of a conflict
with them where we just feel like we're nagging, they're
not listening, they're overruling us, they're doing stuff that really
annoys us. And then we get anxious because we think
(22:27):
this kid is going to have no friends at school
or get sent out or whatever, and we then start
kind of in our reaction that we do some things
that aren't helpful, like we start threatening, we start punishing. So, yeah,
there's ways that we get stuck with these kids.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
We've got a text here someone says, our kids learned
seat belt etiquette by the stopping of the car and
telling them that we would crash if they're not belted in.
But it reminds me of that we were talking just
before the break our children misbehaving last and for instance,
you're driving, just pull the car up and stop and
say you're not going any further. I sometimes wish I
was in the car when they're behaving badly or not.
(23:09):
Now they're pretty good girls actually, but in the past,
because there was one time when they were just arguing
and I just thought, that's it. I'm gonna if I
get distracted, We're gonna have a crash. So I literally
is pulled over and I just turned the car up
and said, and they said, what are you doing. I said,
We're not going any further and until what? And I said,
until you stop arguing. But of course that is actually
(23:30):
fantastically effective.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Yeah, and you see you what you did there, Tim
was you didn't use lots of words. There was an action,
not a nag, not a growl, not a complaint, like
this is this isn't happening. We're not moving. And I
think we need to do more of that. We do
a lot of I think parents are really generous, but
they all put out with stuff many many times, and
(23:54):
then we'll lose it. Yeah, we'll start yelling and exploding
and then we'll feel terrible and we'll compensate with some
treat and our kids get com fused. And I think
we need to act before we're angry, and I think
we need to have some plans. I say to people
who've let's say that they're taking their kids out for
a treat. They're going somewhere and the kids are fighting.
(24:16):
I know we're back in the car where it's a
bit easier, but I say, do a U turn, go home.
Just say to your kids, I'm sorry, this isn't how
our family behaves.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
What if you're not because the car is great, I'm
I assure there are many parents go, oh goodness, man,
I'm glad they're behaving badly in the car, so I
can pull over and do that stunt.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Maybe not, but what if you're not.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
What are those sort of powerful things you can do
which are effective in letting your kids know and recognize
that something's not right when you're just at home.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yep, Sometimes you just have to leave it till everyone's
got calmer. Because if your child is raging and you
think that you can have a good conversation with them
and perhaps throw a consequence in there and that it's
all going to be fine. Often we've just got to
let things. We say strike when the iron's cold, wait,
(25:08):
have a talk. You know, the times that parents have
told me that they've reconnected with their child when they've
done something they're really mad about, but they've reconnected first
with a peace offering. And I know that sounds. But
you might take them a milo, sit on their bed.
It might be your teenager and you say, hey, tell
me a bit more about what was going on, and
(25:30):
they've done something that you're really mad with. Then they've
dropped their guard. You're using something that's a relationship to
work on and they say they will often say, yeah,
that wasn't great. I know, and I'm sorry. If you'd
gone in there and said, if you ever talk to
me like that again, I'll and then you're yeah, and
(25:50):
then you know that you won't. You're not helping at all.
So we've sort of got to do things that are relational.
Sometimes there will be a limit set, and yes, it
may be that there's some screen time or something that
they're not going to be able to do. Well, you're
going to delay something and you're not taking them down
to the mall or whatever. But that is not your
best tool. That is something you can use. There are
(26:14):
many other things that you can do, and they are
often when you get alongside I remember years ago when
I had been particularly offside. I was a horsey girl.
I'd been rude to my mum. I remember that I
was tired and hungry. She must have known that because
I was sent to my room and I was sulking.
(26:35):
She came in with a plateful of egg sandwiches, had
the crust cut off, passing in them, all things that
were my favorite. I was completely disarmed. I thought my
mom understands and loves me, and I changed my whole
behavior change and I peecked up and I was sorry
(26:56):
for what i'd done. If I'd been told to stay
there until I could say I'm sorry, I probably would
have just dug my page.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
The exactly the opposite of what some parents gut instincts
might be is to try and offer a punishment. And
do you think it was because she recognized that you
were just out of your sorts and she did something
to bring something in and say.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I see you, sort of.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Shed I see you. I know that you are probably
tired and hungry. I've been busy, and this is probably
the thing that will reconnect us and we can talk
about the behavior later if we need to. She didn't
need to, because that won my heart.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
It's funny. It makes it.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I mean, it's just when you tell that. I mean,
it's quite an emotional story in a way, because it's funny,
isn't it that there are moments when our parents and
there are certain things with my parents said that that
just may remind you. In fact, I'm lucky that for
me and maybe for you as well, that there were
those moments where they said an example where you.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Recall that years later.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
I do that with my I try and do that
with my kids, because there'll be a moment where my
dad or my mum handled something with more empathy than
I was expecting, and I remember thinking that's the way.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
To do it. That's quite that's quite a useful. I
tell you what.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
We'll take quick break and we'll come back in just
a moment. It's twenty two minutes to six news talks.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
He'd be.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
News talks, there'd be This is the parent Squad. My
guess is Jenny Hall from the Parenting Place. Parentingplace dot
n Z is the address parents.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Jenny.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
You mentioned that you've held courses or I think that's
the right word seminars course, But you've had a course
for people who've got parents who've got strong willed children.
Are they particular common sort of issues that those parents
would often face where they are like the minds I mean,
(29:02):
apart from the broad question of a strong willed child,
is there any particular issue or solution that pops up
as something that's easy, easier to fix, or that's common
to most of them? I think, how in a second,
I just turn your microphone.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Sorry, that's my fault.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
I think what's common for these parents is that often
the relationship feels like it's going sour, that they feel
like their kids aren't listening to them, they're not doing
as they're told, they're not compliant, and a parent will
often feel very lost. What was the other question?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I know that it was.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Actually I was going to lead into the question I
interrupted myself about what not to do? Actually that was
the is there are there certain things that parents can
avoid doing or should try and avoid doing with a
strong willed child?
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Yeah? I think there are some helpful things, because when
we are angry, we often do stuff that we think,
why did I why did I yell? Or you know,
why did I say that? I think that we can
invite our kids to the fight much more than we
need to just by using fighting language. And a lot
of fighting language starts with not only the tone of voice,
(30:12):
but the facial expression that you know, the finger wagging.
If you fight with fighting words, your child will put
their boxing gloves on and fight back. A strong all
child is instinctive in their need to fight back, so
they're not just going to say, oh, okay, I won't
(30:34):
do that anymore. They will fight back. So fighting words
are like don't you dare? Or if you do that
one more time? That is saying come and fight me.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
What about.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
I have had a moment where I'm not going to
say I'll get the sulks, but I deliberately shut down
on one of my children, who is really rude to me.
Wasn't listening. So I just went, okay, I'm going to
ignore you for quite some time. And I may have
done it for quite a few hours, and in the end,
actually they apologized. But I was thinking at the time,
(31:08):
I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
But I'm also really really cross with you.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Yeah, I think parents sometimes we get wounded in this sults.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I did. I got the sucks, but I also thought,
maybe this is working.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Yeah, that's sort of emotional distancing. I think we can
sometimes pull away and we we lock our wounds. But
I think we need to know that we will never
stop loving them. I think our kids need to know that.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I think maybe I did it at a time when
my daughter was old enough to know. I think I've
hurt daddy's feelings, yeah on something. And as opposed to
daddy's that he doesn't love me longer, I would always
tell that even if she's really really irritated me and say, look,
I still love you.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Don't worry, but bloody hell on the.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Noise and the beauty term is that she knew that
that that love, that unconditional love, is not sabotaged by
their behavior. And sometimes we don't communicate that that we are.
We're so brassed off with them that we pull away,
and some kids almost were with I've lost a connection
(32:15):
and they do more behavior.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
That's tricky because the common issue that would pop up
from many parents, whether they've got a strong will child
is that journey to independence, isn't it? And I think
that that's on that something that I'm probably dealing with
with my kids to age twelve and fourteen and is
and a look of that great girls. I'm not this
is not to do with any behavioral issues on their part,
but I know that at some stage I'm going to
(32:38):
have we have to gradually address the fact that they
are going to make more of their decisions, and some
of them we might not even agree with.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
How do you is that?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
How big a deal is that for Well, it's a
big deal for parents, isn't it. That's immissive from them
being dependent to being independent.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
And we're doing it slowly and steadily, and sometimes we're
doing it similar to our friends, and other times I
think parents have got to say, well, this isn't our
this is our family culture, and we are happy for
this and not happy for that. And we're doing it
with kind of some of the guidelines of knowing that
the safety is there that they can contact us, they
(33:17):
can ring us if they're at a party. You know,
we put some really good scaffolding around things. But our
job is to release our kids so that they have
a conscience and make decisions that aren't because they're fearful
of what's going to happen, but because we have instilled
in them a sense of confidence. I believe in you.
(33:39):
I think you've got this. We're always here for you
if things go wrong, and they will go wrong. But
you want your kids to take risks on things that
are not the big ones. You want them to, you know,
bake in the kitchen and make a mess and have
some disasters. You want them to learn from friendships that
(34:00):
some things work well and some don't. You want to
be able to chat to them through stuff that they're
struggling with, and for them to know that you'll listen
more than you will convince. We don't do enough listening.
We're scared that our kids are going to get it wrong,
so that we keep having to tell them this is
what you're meant to do, but actually we should leave
(34:23):
things a little bit and say this is what this
is what I hear you saying.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Okay, because when they you know, if you're a parent
who wants their child when they start exercising independence to say,
you want to say to them, look, I don't care
how bad it is, you can always turn to me.
You really do need to have found opportunities to demonstrate
that before the big issues come along, And don't you
if you.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Have had to pick them up from things in situations
where they've got into trouble and they have had to
know that you are with them, and even if you haven't,
you don't agree with it, and you can talk about
it later. They need to know. Bottom line from experience,
Mum or dad or who was caring for me has
(35:07):
got my back.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Great, great stuff, Jenny, Hey, And again if you would
interested in getting some assistance with your parenting, whether it
be on strong willed children or anything, the website to
go to is Parentingplace Dottie and z and there is
a course for parents who an online course. Therefore, parents,
have you got an issue with strong willed children? Actually
a plenty of online.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Courses as well. It's not the only one, of course,
is Jenny.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
No, there's a really good one on anxiety too. So
parents are often wondering, is this anxiety out of the field?
Is it something I need to see a psychologist about?
And the course will take you through stuff that will
just help you kind of you with your own anxiety
and with your kids' anxiety.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Great stuff, hey, Jenny, great to see again. Thank you
so much for coming in. That wraps the parents Squad
until next time. We'll be back with We're wrapping sport
with Jason Pine will be joining us in just a moment.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
It's eleven and a half minutes to Sex News Talks.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
He'd be gay. We could break it in.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
M bust some.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
We could break it in. If you know Abby Puss,
some Bazon, we could break it in. If you know
Adam put some Bason.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
It For more from the Weekend Collective. Listen live to
News Talks It'd be weekends from three pm, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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