March 1, 2025 • 36 mins
Parents nationwide are saying goodbye to their kids as they set off to university, their OE, or countless other adventures.
It leaves the parents with an unusually quiet home - so how do they deal with it?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thanks car By myself help ourselves every weekend. If you can't.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Tell, they say you're.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
With the Weekend Collective. I'm Francisco Radkin filling and for Tim,
he's going to be back with you tomorrow. It is
time for the Parents Squad, and I'm delighted to welcome
John Cowan and to the studio. Good to have you
with us.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
And I was delighted to walk in and see that
you're here.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Surprise.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I mean, I have a lot of fun with Tim,
but have a different perspective because I think some of
the topics we're going to talk about, you're living at
the moment.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I am very much living, and I think a lot
of parents are living at the moment. Of course, we
hope that this moment comes around at some point. Sometimes
it comes around earlier, sometimes it comes around later for parents.
But I'm talking about when you children start leaving home,
and I think it's a shared experience, but often with
(01:12):
slightly different circumstances, and I think we as parents feel
sort of slightly different about it. I think some people
think they're prepared for a kid to leave and then
they leave and it's actually quite a jolt to the
family and the family dynamic, and they struggle a little bit.
I think our teenagers think that, you know, they are
(01:33):
so ready, because they're already these amazing independent adults, and
off they're going into the new world. And they kind
of get to a university hall or maybe they're on
an oe, and all of a sudden they're like got
the wobbles as we call it. You know, it's a
little bit more than they thought. And so you know,
as a parent you're trying to help them through that
as well. It is quite a stage, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Oh it is? And could I just say for people
living especially in bigger cities, it doesn't happen as soon
as you'd think.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
No.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I mean, the last evidence I saw, last research I saw,
was that the median age for young men to be
leaving home was twenty seven and and so that means
half of them is still at home at twenty seven.
And so sorry, I get up off the floor. On
you can have a.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Panic attack because the problem is they come back to
go through you can go through this sort of momentous
moment of sending the child off and then you suddenly go,
this isn't so bad. Change the locks, you know, this
isn't so bad. And then I am it is in
the back of my mind. And they seem to come
back so often for the holidays and things, and then
(02:44):
they'll be back for four months over summer. But they
do come back.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, things.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
How do we deal with that as parents?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, one of the things is expected and consider it
a good thing. By the way, the difference of experience
between parents can be quite dramatic, autely like I always
assumed that this was a month the empty nest syndrome
that people call it. No, no, I mean the experience
that I've seen in people and I've read about is
(03:14):
that mums tend to expect it, plan for it. When
it happens, They grieve pamps but then enjoy the freedom,
whereas dads are wandering around going what the heck happened?
Where are the kids? I still haven't finished the tree hut.
And I remember speaking to a men's group about the
empty nest thing, and men were crying. They were literally
(03:35):
crying about how much they missed their kids, and it
had just you know, swept their legs out from underneath
them because they weren't expecting it.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And whatever your reaction is, whatever your response is that
you may or may not have expected, it's all okay,
you know what I mean. Like, however, you if you
are upset in your crusts, actually just go with that
for a little bit, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, when it's not okay is when the child is
somehow propping up something in yourself, your identity, you're your
need to be needed, and they're moving away. Is unpinning
something in your identity so that you don't you know,
and so you reject I prefect your thought. You need
(04:19):
to work on it with yourself. But in general, it's
a it's a very good thing that kids learn how
to do it, especially if they know how to look
after themselves. And that's going to be one of our tasks.
I mean, from adolescence on. We should be thinking about
how can I help my kids live with less from us?
Can they budget? Can they cook a meal? Do they
know how to do the washing? Do they know the opera?
(04:40):
You know how to how to look after themselves, make
an appointment at the doctors, how to and so more
and more as they move through adolescents. We should be
getting them to live at home like they're already flatting
to a certain extent, and that means also extending trust
and extending independence and liberty to them.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh wait, one hundred eighty ten eighties and to call,
you can text on ninety two ninety two. Look, you
might be going through this at the moment. It may
have taken you by surprise. We'd love to hear your experience.
Or if you've got a question or you'd like to
have a chat to John about it, we'd love to
hear from you. So please feel free to call and
text a couple of things that and what you said there, John,
(05:23):
I see it as a sign of good parenting that
my child is feeling confident enough to go off and
be independent. Yes, you know, I think we should. Actually
I think you should pat yourself on the pack parents,
because I don't think we do enough. I think, you know,
to go as much as I'm going to miss, you know,
one of my children around the dinner table. Actually, this
(05:45):
is what they're supposed to do, and this is what
we want them to do, just like you said, to
be able to go off and function and be independent.
I as much as I tried to get my son
to be able to tick all those things off the
list that you just said, and he can do all
of them if he had to off. Sometimes you might
have a teenager who doesn't sit of show a lot
(06:06):
of motivation to being quite as organized or you know,
looking after themselves about all those things as you. But
that's the other reason they go because they have to. Now,
Sometimes sometimes a kid just has to go to learn
those things, don't.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I had wonderfully indulgent parents who looked after me far too.
I was coddled, yes, okay, and so I went flatten
because I felt I had to. And my poor flatmates
they basically civilized me and helped me to grow up.
And so hats off to them. I mean, but I
(06:43):
would hope that we're releasing into the world kids from
our families that are, you know, a bit more able
understand about what to do with money, about how to
pay bills, about how to make appointments and things, and
can look after themselves. So yeah, it is a sort
of when you say it's a test of good parent,
yes it is. And also the fact your job as
(07:03):
a parent hasn't finished then that's another thing. How do
you renegotiate your role as a parent now that your
child is living off somewhere, And can I just say
one of the things that you really need to extend
to them is respect. You don't walk into their flat
and just assuming that you can, you ring up and
ask if you can visit, and you knock at the
(07:24):
door and you wait to be let in. And that's
a very very strange thing in your heart, But honestly,
it sends such a powerful message to your young person
of Mum and dad actually respect me and are treating
me like an adult.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Okay, I'm going to come back to that in just
a moment. I was saying just before, when I was
saying it's a great sign of independence when a kid leaves,
not all young people are ready to go at the
same time.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Either.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It doesn't mean that if they don't go at eighteen,
there's an issue. If it means that they leave it
twenty or a little bit later, that also can be
absolutely fine. It kind of depends on the individual, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Sometimes. And by the way, when I when never go,
a lot of kids are staying at home, yes into
their late twenties, and some of them seem to make
no sign of moving out until you get the police
into a victim from their bedroom and there with this no, no,
that doesn't happen. But I mean, the thing is they're
often very nice to have around at that stage. You know,
they can be very good flatmates. You know, when our
(08:20):
kids have come back as adults and lived with us
for a while while they're you know, just between houses
or something like that, it's been fine. I've enjoyed having
them around. So yeah, there's no formula for this that
your child should be out flatting at nineteen or whatever.
And you know, if they wanted to stay living with
you and you're work and you can work that out well,
(08:42):
and you can set your boundaries and around yourself and
your time and your space and don't feel like they
live and help you know, that's fine, And you're smiling
because you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So I did a needed troil on this recently on
the Sunday session and it went it gets put up
on a newstik theb do co dot in zen In
and I said, how, you know, I was really going
to miss my son, but I'm very exit for him.
He's very excited to go. He's very happy where he is.
It's all so far being a really wonderful experience, and
I'm going to you know, it's that whole thing as
(09:15):
a parent. If your kids are fine, you're fine. If
your kids are not fine, you're not fine. So I've
decided not to worry about anything. UNTI there's something to
worry about. He is all good and loving it, and
I'm really really excited for him. But I did make
a note, and I of make a note of the end,
but it was quite It was quite nice to get
run cut out of the hotel. And he just doesn't
normally read my material, but did manage to catch that one.
(09:38):
I've got a lovely text here that says my parents
thought they'd finally gotten rid of me, but then I
bought a house two minutes from theirs and I visit
them multiple times a week. I think if you foster
a decent relationship with your kids, you will struggle to
ever properly get rid of them. They'll always come back.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
That's lovely, but you know, and also look multi generational homes.
They work, you know, they can work fine. The thing
that you've got to run over them is the responsibility
control analysis. If responsibility and control, aren't sitting with the
same person, then you're being manipulated. If you're taking responsibility
(10:13):
for your kid's bills and they got control over whether
they pay or not, you're being manipulated. Okay, if you're
controlling your child's life so much that they don't have
any authority, then they're being manipulated. And so sometimes you
got to think in a lot of situations like laundry,
who's got responsibility, who's got control. I'm doing the laundry,
(10:35):
they've got the control about whether they, you know, take
their laundry out to the wash house or whatever. And
so you can feel manipulated, even if in your own home.
So that's not a bad analysis for being able to
live together with older young people.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I've got a text here from John who said, Hi, Francesca,
our daughter started Union Wellington recently and was very excited
to move move there from Hawks Bay. But when she
got there during orientation week, reality kicked in lots of
tears and angst, to the point that she ended up
coming back home for the week. She's subsequently gone back
and settling and okay, but it was a real challenge
(11:14):
for all concerned, including mum. Brackets and Dad, onwards and upwards.
Which you're right, John, you are. You're onwards and upwards.
You've got over that little hurdle. Because there will be wobbles,
won't they.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah, And for some it might be a big wobble.
They might get real anxiety attacks. And let's just face it,
young adults sometimes don't have great mental health. And if
they've been plying towards depression or anxiety, or if they
you know, if this is the time when they're starting
to plummet into romantic and sexual relationships or experimenting with
(11:44):
stuff that messes with their heads, they might have some
really bad experiences in there. And I don't want to
ski you too much because I'd like to like to
advocate the idea that they're moving out and going flatting
is a wonderful thing. But if kids are going to
have problems, it's probably only in those first year or
two of when they're flatting. And so could I just
say stay in touch, stay in touch, text them off,
(12:05):
set up a WhatsApp group of the family, and and
just even if it's only one way, for a while
they're hearing from you, you're not hearing from them. Just
let them know that they've still got a plan B,
that they can still come home, that they don't have
to be desperate, that you'll be the lifeline. You're not
going to be a walkover and the endless bank of credit.
You know that you'll you know won't, you won't see
(12:25):
them stranded or stuck, and that can help them face
an awful lot.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, well, I look, I feel for you, John, because
I can imagine how difficult those few weeks were because
you want it all to go well and it's not
going well. And I look, I've had friends in the
same situation and thought everything would be fine and turned
out to be very rocky a couple of weeks. But yeah,
you're right, John, uputs and onwards. Most most of the
kids I know who've been struggling a little bit of
(12:50):
starting to settle now as lectures cacan and there's other
things to sort of occupy them, and things I've got
a little theory about mums and maybe sons, and there's
a couple of things I've then you're fine, a little
too fine. The fact that my first child has left home,
(13:12):
and that is partly because probably for the six months
before he left home, I was the one driving the change.
I was the one going, have you down the halls applications?
Are you have you you know? Have you got into
the course you want to do? Have you got your
study links sorted? Have you done this? You need to
get your full license before you go? Have you got
your jabs? And I felt like I lived the departure
(13:33):
for sort of six months, and a lot of mums
will have been the same. You're packing them up, getting
them ready to go. I mean, be great if they
you know my we did it together. I didn't do
it all. But you're constantly checking in, You're constantly kind
of helping them get to where they want to go.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
And the process has also reassured you because you know
that he's got all these things lined up.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So we're all sort yeah, no, kind of we arrived
not fully organized, but that that's up to him now
and it's all been taken care of. But you've kind
of the reality has been well lived. Before the actual
departure date, it was kind of kind of crapt up,
whereas my partner was just, oh no, this is going
to be terrible, like hadn't kind of lived it maybe
(14:14):
quite so much. But I also heard this theory about
mums and sons. And I think I struggled more with
the loss of my gorgeous young boy when he went
into puberty. You know that that stage where they go
from being these cuddly and over enthusiastic and communicative young
men to these grunters who can't remember why they crossed
(14:39):
the room, right, you know? You know that stage? Yeah,
I did. I actually grieved the loss of my book.
I couldn't quite put my finger on it for six months.
I was just looking at this kid, going, oh my,
what is it?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So people say it's like an alien's been dropped in
that lovely kids got off to live in a photo
album and you've got this new child.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And I couldn't find the right way to describe it.
And then I suddenly went, I'm just grieving the loss
of this boy. And then I said it to one
mother who said, I know exactly what you mean, and
don't worry. They come back. And he did. He came back,
and so that was great. But I wondered whether that
is the opportunity for mums to really start starting to
prepare to slowly let their boys go when they're sort
of narr eighteen and things.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Could I just say, you don't even have to think
of it as letting go, but just changing the relationship,
changing to a respectful friendship where you're still you're still
going to be always his mum. Yeah, you're never going
to stop being his mum. But there's also his senses
that you are now respecting him as an adult, treating
of an adult, asking his opinions and what he's going
(15:43):
to do, rather than telling him this is going to
be your opinion, this is what you're going to do,
that type of thing. And could I just say.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
For a boy, to be honest, it's been hard to
tell him what to do.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
For a boy. Men's voices in that mixed matterphor as
a lot too. And so just that respect comes with saying, hey,
I respect you as a as a man. Now. That
means so much that they're growing up New Zealand at
modern culture, that threshold experience of turning becoming a man,
(16:17):
becoming a woman. We don't formalize it very much. We
don't have bar mitzvas, we don't have initiation ceremonies and things,
but we do have things like the oe.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
We do have things like going first.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Sometimes that's not so much now. That used to be
you're given the key of the door. But now it's
more just a big party that the parents pay for
that they have for their mates. It used to be
a twenty first was all the older relatives and things
would gather there as well. I'm not maybe it still
is for.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Something No, well for some maybe, yeah, But so.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I tend to think that these opportunities of we make
a big fuss of them. We make a big fuss
of them getting their driver's license, we make a big
fuss of them going flatting, and as sort of an
acknowledgment of yes, you know, we can see that you're
growing up, we can see that you're mature enough to
handle this.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
So yeah, I want to talk a little bit more
about this sort of navigating this new stage in this
new relationship and things. I've got a friend who gets
quite sad and angry when a child leaves, and has
been through this a few times because she said, they
leave and yet they still kind of require, you know,
(17:32):
a lot of they still require a lot from her,
either financially or emotionally or you know. She says, it's
a really interesting you know, and that is that struggle
to go from that struggle. I think of the relationship.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
That she expected just to be cut and dryer than moving.
But no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
No, nobly not. I think really taken back by how
she felt about it. Actually, I think she thought, well,
here you go, you're doing what you want. This is awesome,
this is great.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
And that she labeled that emotion that she's feeling is anger.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah. Can I just think it was really self aware
when she thought about it that she came.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Out with, I'm just wondering. Sometimes we have an emotion
and we're looking around for an appropriate label to stick
on it, and it may well be grief, it may
well be I know something else that Yeah, it's but
our kids do need us that after they move away,
but they may not. And you know, people joke about, oh, yes,
(18:30):
they just turn up with a big bag of washing
and wanting a feed and finding a loan to put
new tires on their car or something like that, and yes, yes, yes,
that we sort of ride with that, and that becomes
less and less hopefully as they become more and more independent.
But hopefully there will be that sort of level of
intimacy where they can ask you for emotional support they
can express their need for family, Can I just say,
(18:54):
engineer opportunities for meeting and having meals together and family
celebrations and trips away still even if they're living away
and they may have conflicting things. No, we can't come
to that family holiday anymore. But just keep on expecting
that the family will keep on functioning like a family
in some way, even though the bed is now in
(19:16):
another suburb.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah no, No, that's a nice way of thinking about it.
Twenty five past five. Oh wait on hundred eighty ten
eighties and able to call if you want to join
the conversation and share your experience, and I'll get to
your text when we come back in just a moment.
You're with the Weekend Collective. This is the Parenting Squad, Seduity,
(19:38):
jesuit me to get a body cake.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
You know about person.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Ready heavy. It is five point thirty here on the
Parents Squad. Good to have you with us. Thank you
for your texts. I hie one text reads. My son
started UNI a few weeks ago. I like to do
the live testing at least every other day. I get
upset when he doesn't take calls a reply to my text.
(20:13):
I've told him it doesn't have to be a fifty
minute conversation. I'm okay with two minutes. If not, just
reply to my text every other day with I'm busy,
but okay talk later or something, and the text is
asking am I being unreasonable?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I don't like putting sort of you must reply sort
of things on it. It's sort of like those posts
on Facebook where you know, I'm doing a test to
see who wants to be my friend by those who
sort of answer back. I just sort of think that
sense of obligation that kids have sometimes to reply can
mean that they'll wriggle out of it if they can.
(20:48):
So I don't know if it's going to be a
totally successful strategy. I'm sure that I certainly appreciate the
fact you want to stay in touch, and can I
just say, just keep up the message is coming from you, okay,
and just and he'll be appreciating that. I think aware
of that and conscious of that, but just realize that
(21:09):
young people, young adults, they're not great at getting back
to you. They may not be that strength, and just
realize for a lot of a lot of parenthood, it's
a one way thing. You know, if you're wanting responsiveness, affection,
replies and emotional support, get a dog because you're a
young person. They just ain't wired that way, a lot
(21:30):
of them, and so you know, so, yeah, I would
not put too many you know, reply or you'll be
or be upset reply or or be get angry type
of things, implying that because in sense of obligation and
the relationship, I just don't think it's the best strategy.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
We call them proof of life texts in our house.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Oh yeah, that's a yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
And so if if you know, the kids go to
a music festival or something and they're there for three days,
like over over New Year, rhythm and vines, we were like,
we need proof of life twice a day, please, we
just want to and it can be a photo. It's
just proof of life. It's just all good. Okay, don't
ask for a lot. But that was a sort of
a slightly different scenario, maybe because what I.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Was thinking of when you were reading that is a
survey of the time that kids most often use their
phones when driving is when their parents call them. Is
that because well, if true is any survey, I guess,
but you know, they was saying that the well, first
of all, their friends don't call them they but parents
(22:35):
call and they get a rate if their kids don't
answer and threaten them and things get angry. So it's
interesting that some kids resent the fact that I am
obligated to enter into a conversation or something.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I don't know if this helps the texture at all,
But I have an arrangement with my son that on
Sunday at a time that suits him, preferably when I'm
not on air. But she forgets about I've been doing
the same show for years. We will have a week
to catch up. So he'll text and go, can we
do it at twelve thirty?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Can we do it?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
At six thirty? Can we do it? Whatever? And that
is the day that he commits to calling and telling
me about his week and the weak ahead and what's
going on and everything.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
And so, by the way, if you're listening, oh eight
hundred eighty ten eighty, if you want to talk to here,
mum can be cool, that's right, that's I am.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
But but I would just go take not you know,
not do it every second day, but actually just say hey,
let's just make a plan. What day suits you and
then yeah, it's really great. Yeah, And then actually weirdly
this week did call me randomly just for chat and
talk about a few things. So I just I've left
it because I'm the same. I sort of fliped text
(23:47):
and I get no response, and you know, life's too
busy and there's more exciting people to respond to and
I get that, but I can understand you can't. You
can start going.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
It's not that hard. No, that's a find something that will.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, just just keep playing around with it, because I
you know, we're just I know you don't like me
saying leot and go, but we are gently.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah, lengthening the least changing the relationship with that. Yes.
And the other thing is try and encourage relationships with
siblings and with dad as well, because very often people
move away and mum becomes the sole point of contact
and if dad wants to find out something, you know,
it has to be you know, via that. So it's
great if you can keep the whole family going. And
(24:29):
these Whatsapple messenger groups are great for that, where you
can everybody's in on it, even if they just bee
comparing over the shoulder of what's happening?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Can I ask? So we've been talking about leaving for
the first time, and they might head off to oe
or university or maybe boarding school even and things. And
a lot of the time, maybe when you've finished your
unicorse or three or four years later, or maybe you're moving,
so maybe there's a change you want to come home
and save some money. You return home after being away
for quite a while, having that independence, you've got a
(24:59):
slightly different relationship now, one of respect that should go
both ways hopefully return home. What do you do when
they just sort of slip back into the old kind
of routine.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Well, I think that you just remind them that are
you appreciating them as an adult now? You know, just
talk of that in terms of appreciation, because it's interesting
how you see families come back together and they resume
their role. I've seen you know, siblings, you know, they
might have been living independent lives of you. They get
back together again and then that's only their big brother
little brother relationship again, you know. And same with kids.
(25:35):
They can fall back into just being the kid and
letting mum cook and clean and do the washing and
everything like this. I think just as you walk in
and just say hey, okay, we tend to have our
showers at this time, you can use the shower at
that time. The washing machine is free after that, and
everything like this. There's a basket there.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Just give them expectations and that they're coming back to
fit into your.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
We're at all living again. Now, Yeah, you're welcome to
use the car, but just leave it full. That type
of thing.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
So if they're working, would you did you have a
charge any of your kids to sort of you know,
a little bit of money and a little bit of
board for food or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Could I just say all our kids offered, which was nice,
look at you, which was nice, But we negotiated it
down to probably sit on it was only just sort
of norminal and just say, you know, just talk about things. Hey,
we're living together as adults and so it'd be good
if you could contribute, and let's I have a talk
rather than just sort of sit on them. Just talk
(26:33):
about it in terms of positives. You're welcome to use
the cat, you know, off of these things. You're welcome
to use the washing machine, just make sure that you
know you leave it clean afterwards. So the basically you're
just saying, then you are doing your own washing, you know,
and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I've got a great text here. I left home when
I was eighteen to study in the US. With time
zones and UNI and work, I didn't call my parents much,
maybe once every few weeks. My mum's proof of life
messages became sending me cute dog Instagram videos each day
and mean liking those. That was her way of knowing
I was alive and okay. It was very smart of her.
(27:10):
The text reads she realized I was too exhausted to
engage in big conversations a lot of the time, I.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Alike, isn't that nice?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
It's good though, you know, you get your proof of life.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
She gets a little shot of than doorphins, you know,
of dolphins come up.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
There Instagram video every day and look there we go.
That brings a lot of.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Joy and everything doesn't that I've heard for ages.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Okay, we're going to take a quick break. It is
twenty three year two Sex News top. If you're feeling down, sallow,
make you you're with the parents squad. My guest is
John Cowen, love you to have you with us. Hey,
we I thought we would just touch on something else
(27:52):
this hour, and that is this week. There was a
bit of a there was a bit of a mix
up with Instagram where something quite violent and very inappropriate
for most of us to see was kind of rolled
out to people who don't normally watch that kind of material.
And we know this can happen an awful lot of
the time when we have a smartphone and we're on
social media apps and things like that. In particular, if
(28:14):
you were giving you your child their first phone, now
their first smartphone, they were entering into that world. How
do you have a conversation with your kid about the
possibility of what they may sort of discover. You don't
want them, you don't want them to go and searching
for this stuff when they hear about it, But how
do you have that conversation about what they may encounter
(28:37):
and the importance of showing and talking to parents about it.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
And it's exactly how you're putting it to me. You
should be part of your conversation of extending the trust
of having a phone is Hey, if something nasty pops
up on your screen, you know, try try not to
look at it. In fact, come and talk to me
if especially if it rattles you. But the thing is,
should your kids be having the phone, should they have
(29:02):
access to those things. There's a few things you can do.
First working out whether your KT is mature enough to
handle a phone, and I think the best way of
doing that is noticing the maturity they express in other
areas of life. Do they handle money well, Well, phones
can rack up big bills. If they're buying stuff online
and things, they can handle money in other areas, maybe
(29:23):
they can handle the responsibility. Are they losing things a lot,
are they always leasing stuff at school? Well, they might
not be able to handle the responsibility of a valuable phone.
And also if they're into mischief and other areas of
their life, then phones are great ways to get into mischief.
And so if your KIT is well behaved and responsible
in other areas, they're probably mature enough to handle having
(29:45):
a phone. And if they're not, then maybe you need
to wait a little bit. The other thing is to
access those parental controls that are built into every phone.
The thing is, though probably their first phone will be
some off brand, something from the warehouse that you never
heard of before, and how do you access the controls
in that. The great thing is that there are geeks
(30:06):
out there that make videos on YouTube, and so if
you say accessing paretal controls on OPO four nine three
two or something like that. Some geek will have made
a video on how to do step by step to
activate those things. They provide a little bit of the fence,
but the fence that you really want with kids is
in their head, that that fence of morals about Hey,
(30:30):
is this a video you're watching where someone's hurting someone else?
And that's one of the things that offends me most
often is that there's so often videos on TikTok and
Instagram and all these other things where it's road rage,
where it's mocking someone, where it's someone getting revenge, where
it's you know, it's you know, and it's manifesting something
(30:53):
which I find morally objectionable. And so it says, you
give your kids this idea of hey, I know you'd
never treat anyone like that yourself, but do you really
think you should just be soaking in this type of
stuff for entertainment, you know, this idea of watching someone
beat up someone else or being able to you know,
(31:14):
And there is that nasty stuff popping up all the time,
probably in every feed of social media, and so giving
your kids some instruction about morals, you know, how would
you like to be treated? Would that be a good
way to treat it?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
TV? You know, I mean that's a hard thing for
adults to do sometimes as well as you know, little
alone children sometimes. You know, we have a sort of
saying do no harm. So if you see something which
is clearly doing harm, then I'd probably reassess what it
is you're watching.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
One of the things that makes it harder for our
current crop of parents is that you used to have
a wonderful opportunity called watching TV where you could be
running a bit of commentary on the news, running a
bit of commentary on some of the programs that are
on there, using it as this discussion starter. But if
everyone's off staring at their own bit of glass, you
don't quite have that opportunity anymore. So maybe especially at
(32:06):
the start, you're doing a bit of watching these things
with them. So yeah, set the protal controls, check with
your kids mature enough to handle a phone anyway, and
debrief with them if they do get a shock, and
try and set up those morals in their heads that
they can handle the strange world we live in.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I really like the move that Astralia is making where
they have approved to ban social media for under sixteen
year olds, and I think that's really sensible. And if
we'd really thought about it long and hard many years ago,
we'd probably would have put those everybody would have put
those rules in place.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
But I was.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
But what I worry about is if you put that
in place. One, a lot of the time they work
out how to get on these things anyway. But two,
you're not having the conversations, you're not preparing them. So
what then they go on at sixteen? They're not prepared
for it, you know what I mean. You're going to
still deal with the same issues and have to have
those same conversations. Maybe they're more mature to be able
(33:00):
to deal with them. I don't know. I look around
at sixteen year olds and they're a mixed bag when
it comes to maturity.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
That's the thing. There's some sexteen year olds that are
more mature than I am, yeah, totally, and other twenty
three year olds that should still be eating in a
high chair they're so immature. So it's setting an actual
numerical age limit has its limits, But assessing your child's
maturity and it's amazing, you know, you know your child
and you know, are they into a bit of mischief?
(33:26):
Are they Are they trustworthy with money? And how they
handle positions and stuff like that. Usually responsibility in one
area is a good indication of their responsibility in others,
and so you get an idea of their responsibility.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I mean, I feel for parents. My kids missed I
had a smartphone, but of course we didn't have I
think we've got an iPad maybe when the kids were toddlers,
but we just hardly ever used it, and so it
wasn't out and about. And when we got smartphones, there
wasn't a lot of material or content I should say
content available for our kids at that point. Of course,
(34:01):
now there is. You know, you've got your pepper pigs,
You've got everything to entertain from a very young age up.
So when we had our phones, it wasn't something our
kids wanted to reach for because to them, there was
nothing on it. We didn't let them have them. There
was nothing on it. So I think, I mean, look,
we got away lightly because we went battling that I
(34:21):
feel for parents today. I mean, if I was back
to saying, right, I'm going to buy my children their
first phone, I would look at doing something like the
kids safe smartphone, and they've partnered with Samsung. Here's a
smartphone with so many parental controls that you can control.
There are different programs in different stages and you can control.
I would have to go to something like that because.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Well, the thing is, you can set up just met
any phone to feel like that, and so it is
probably not a dumb idea to have, perhaps I don't know,
a separate phone, one of your old phones something like that,
which you just set up just for kids. And the
good news is there is wonderful stuff on there for kids.
And you know, I personally think Blue is the most
wonderful thing that's come down the ship. Yeah, and it's
(35:05):
wonderful for kids. It's really good drama, it's really good.
It's really funny at teacher's life, and so you know it,
there's great stuff there. Where parents need to step in,
of course, is how much and when otherwise they could
spend all day just staring at the things. I mean,
these this content has been generated by experts that know
how to just grab people's attention.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I had a toddler who just never stopped talking. You
could leave the room and they still just keep talking
to you. It just went on and I would get
to the point where and didn't like TV, didn't want
to sit and watch TV. I mean, great, it's so good,
a little loved box, loved playing, just played and talking NonStop.
And you keep to the point where you're going. We're
joined the opposite, we're going. Gosh. I really wished this
child Wood just sit down and watch anyway, John, it
(35:49):
has been a pleasure to have you with us this hour.
Thank you so much for your sage as vice as
always and thoughts. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Cheers. It is eleven to six News Talks EV.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Talk ZEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thanks car By myself help ourselves every weekend. If you can't.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Tell, they say you're.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
With the Weekend Collective. I'm Francisco Radkin filling and for Tim,
he's going to be back with you tomorrow. It is
time for the Parents Squad, and I'm delighted to welcome
John Cowan and to the studio. Good to have you
with us.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
And I was delighted to walk in and see that
you're here.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Surprise.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I mean, I have a lot of fun with Tim,
but have a different perspective because I think some of
the topics we're going to talk about, you're living at
the moment.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I am very much living, and I think a lot
of parents are living at the moment. Of course, we
hope that this moment comes around at some point. Sometimes
it comes around earlier, sometimes it comes around later for parents.
But I'm talking about when you children start leaving home,
and I think it's a shared experience, but often with
(01:12):
slightly different circumstances, and I think we as parents feel
sort of slightly different about it. I think some people
think they're prepared for a kid to leave and then
they leave and it's actually quite a jolt to the
family and the family dynamic, and they struggle a little bit.
I think our teenagers think that, you know, they are
(01:33):
so ready, because they're already these amazing independent adults, and
off they're going into the new world. And they kind
of get to a university hall or maybe they're on
an oe, and all of a sudden they're like got
the wobbles as we call it. You know, it's a
little bit more than they thought. And so you know,
as a parent you're trying to help them through that
as well. It is quite a stage, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Oh it is? And could I just say for people
living especially in bigger cities, it doesn't happen as soon
as you'd think.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
No.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I mean, the last evidence I saw, last research I saw,
was that the median age for young men to be
leaving home was twenty seven and and so that means
half of them is still at home at twenty seven.
And so sorry, I get up off the floor. On
you can have a.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Panic attack because the problem is they come back to
go through you can go through this sort of momentous
moment of sending the child off and then you suddenly go,
this isn't so bad. Change the locks, you know, this
isn't so bad. And then I am it is in
the back of my mind. And they seem to come
back so often for the holidays and things, and then
(02:44):
they'll be back for four months over summer. But they
do come back.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, things.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
How do we deal with that as parents?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, one of the things is expected and consider it
a good thing. By the way, the difference of experience
between parents can be quite dramatic, autely like I always
assumed that this was a month the empty nest syndrome
that people call it. No, no, I mean the experience
that I've seen in people and I've read about is
(03:14):
that mums tend to expect it, plan for it. When
it happens, They grieve pamps but then enjoy the freedom,
whereas dads are wandering around going what the heck happened?
Where are the kids? I still haven't finished the tree hut.
And I remember speaking to a men's group about the
empty nest thing, and men were crying. They were literally
(03:35):
crying about how much they missed their kids, and it
had just you know, swept their legs out from underneath
them because they weren't expecting it.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And whatever your reaction is, whatever your response is that
you may or may not have expected, it's all okay,
you know what I mean. Like, however, you if you
are upset in your crusts, actually just go with that
for a little bit, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, when it's not okay is when the child is
somehow propping up something in yourself, your identity, you're your
need to be needed, and they're moving away. Is unpinning
something in your identity so that you don't you know,
and so you reject I prefect your thought. You need
(04:19):
to work on it with yourself. But in general, it's
a it's a very good thing that kids learn how
to do it, especially if they know how to look
after themselves. And that's going to be one of our tasks.
I mean, from adolescence on. We should be thinking about
how can I help my kids live with less from us?
Can they budget? Can they cook a meal? Do they
know how to do the washing? Do they know the opera?
(04:40):
You know how to how to look after themselves, make
an appointment at the doctors, how to and so more
and more as they move through adolescents. We should be
getting them to live at home like they're already flatting
to a certain extent, and that means also extending trust
and extending independence and liberty to them.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh wait, one hundred eighty ten eighties and to call,
you can text on ninety two ninety two. Look, you
might be going through this at the moment. It may
have taken you by surprise. We'd love to hear your experience.
Or if you've got a question or you'd like to
have a chat to John about it, we'd love to
hear from you. So please feel free to call and
text a couple of things that and what you said there, John,
(05:23):
I see it as a sign of good parenting that
my child is feeling confident enough to go off and
be independent. Yes, you know, I think we should. Actually
I think you should pat yourself on the pack parents,
because I don't think we do enough. I think, you know,
to go as much as I'm going to miss, you know,
one of my children around the dinner table. Actually, this
(05:45):
is what they're supposed to do, and this is what
we want them to do, just like you said, to
be able to go off and function and be independent.
I as much as I tried to get my son
to be able to tick all those things off the
list that you just said, and he can do all
of them if he had to off. Sometimes you might
have a teenager who doesn't sit of show a lot
(06:06):
of motivation to being quite as organized or you know,
looking after themselves about all those things as you. But
that's the other reason they go because they have to. Now,
Sometimes sometimes a kid just has to go to learn
those things, don't.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I had wonderfully indulgent parents who looked after me far too.
I was coddled, yes, okay, and so I went flatten
because I felt I had to. And my poor flatmates
they basically civilized me and helped me to grow up.
And so hats off to them. I mean, but I
(06:43):
would hope that we're releasing into the world kids from
our families that are, you know, a bit more able
understand about what to do with money, about how to
pay bills, about how to make appointments and things, and
can look after themselves. So yeah, it is a sort
of when you say it's a test of good parent,
yes it is. And also the fact your job as
(07:03):
a parent hasn't finished then that's another thing. How do
you renegotiate your role as a parent now that your
child is living off somewhere, And can I just say
one of the things that you really need to extend
to them is respect. You don't walk into their flat
and just assuming that you can, you ring up and
ask if you can visit, and you knock at the
(07:24):
door and you wait to be let in. And that's
a very very strange thing in your heart, But honestly,
it sends such a powerful message to your young person
of Mum and dad actually respect me and are treating
me like an adult.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Okay, I'm going to come back to that in just
a moment. I was saying just before, when I was
saying it's a great sign of independence when a kid leaves,
not all young people are ready to go at the
same time.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Either.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It doesn't mean that if they don't go at eighteen,
there's an issue. If it means that they leave it
twenty or a little bit later, that also can be
absolutely fine. It kind of depends on the individual, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Sometimes. And by the way, when I when never go,
a lot of kids are staying at home, yes into
their late twenties, and some of them seem to make
no sign of moving out until you get the police
into a victim from their bedroom and there with this no, no,
that doesn't happen. But I mean, the thing is they're
often very nice to have around at that stage. You know,
they can be very good flatmates. You know, when our
(08:20):
kids have come back as adults and lived with us
for a while while they're you know, just between houses
or something like that, it's been fine. I've enjoyed having
them around. So yeah, there's no formula for this that
your child should be out flatting at nineteen or whatever.
And you know, if they wanted to stay living with
you and you're work and you can work that out well,
(08:42):
and you can set your boundaries and around yourself and
your time and your space and don't feel like they
live and help you know, that's fine, And you're smiling
because you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So I did a needed troil on this recently on
the Sunday session and it went it gets put up
on a newstik theb do co dot in zen In
and I said, how, you know, I was really going
to miss my son, but I'm very exit for him.
He's very excited to go. He's very happy where he is.
It's all so far being a really wonderful experience, and
I'm going to you know, it's that whole thing as
(09:15):
a parent. If your kids are fine, you're fine. If
your kids are not fine, you're not fine. So I've
decided not to worry about anything. UNTI there's something to
worry about. He is all good and loving it, and
I'm really really excited for him. But I did make
a note, and I of make a note of the end,
but it was quite It was quite nice to get
run cut out of the hotel. And he just doesn't
normally read my material, but did manage to catch that one.
(09:38):
I've got a lovely text here that says my parents
thought they'd finally gotten rid of me, but then I
bought a house two minutes from theirs and I visit
them multiple times a week. I think if you foster
a decent relationship with your kids, you will struggle to
ever properly get rid of them. They'll always come back.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
That's lovely, but you know, and also look multi generational homes.
They work, you know, they can work fine. The thing
that you've got to run over them is the responsibility
control analysis. If responsibility and control, aren't sitting with the
same person, then you're being manipulated. If you're taking responsibility
(10:13):
for your kid's bills and they got control over whether
they pay or not, you're being manipulated. Okay, if you're
controlling your child's life so much that they don't have
any authority, then they're being manipulated. And so sometimes you
got to think in a lot of situations like laundry,
who's got responsibility, who's got control. I'm doing the laundry,
(10:35):
they've got the control about whether they, you know, take
their laundry out to the wash house or whatever. And
so you can feel manipulated, even if in your own home.
So that's not a bad analysis for being able to
live together with older young people.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I've got a text here from John who said, Hi, Francesca,
our daughter started Union Wellington recently and was very excited
to move move there from Hawks Bay. But when she
got there during orientation week, reality kicked in lots of
tears and angst, to the point that she ended up
coming back home for the week. She's subsequently gone back
and settling and okay, but it was a real challenge
(11:14):
for all concerned, including mum. Brackets and Dad, onwards and upwards.
Which you're right, John, you are. You're onwards and upwards.
You've got over that little hurdle. Because there will be wobbles,
won't they.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah, And for some it might be a big wobble.
They might get real anxiety attacks. And let's just face it,
young adults sometimes don't have great mental health. And if
they've been plying towards depression or anxiety, or if they
you know, if this is the time when they're starting
to plummet into romantic and sexual relationships or experimenting with
(11:44):
stuff that messes with their heads, they might have some
really bad experiences in there. And I don't want to
ski you too much because I'd like to like to
advocate the idea that they're moving out and going flatting
is a wonderful thing. But if kids are going to
have problems, it's probably only in those first year or
two of when they're flatting. And so could I just
say stay in touch, stay in touch, text them off,
(12:05):
set up a WhatsApp group of the family, and and
just even if it's only one way, for a while
they're hearing from you, you're not hearing from them. Just
let them know that they've still got a plan B,
that they can still come home, that they don't have
to be desperate, that you'll be the lifeline. You're not
going to be a walkover and the endless bank of credit.
You know that you'll you know won't, you won't see
(12:25):
them stranded or stuck, and that can help them face
an awful lot.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, well, I look, I feel for you, John, because
I can imagine how difficult those few weeks were because
you want it all to go well and it's not
going well. And I look, I've had friends in the
same situation and thought everything would be fine and turned
out to be very rocky a couple of weeks. But yeah,
you're right, John, uputs and onwards. Most most of the
kids I know who've been struggling a little bit of
(12:50):
starting to settle now as lectures cacan and there's other
things to sort of occupy them, and things I've got
a little theory about mums and maybe sons, and there's
a couple of things I've then you're fine, a little
too fine. The fact that my first child has left home,
(13:12):
and that is partly because probably for the six months
before he left home, I was the one driving the change.
I was the one going, have you down the halls applications?
Are you have you you know? Have you got into
the course you want to do? Have you got your
study links sorted? Have you done this? You need to
get your full license before you go? Have you got
your jabs? And I felt like I lived the departure
(13:33):
for sort of six months, and a lot of mums
will have been the same. You're packing them up, getting
them ready to go. I mean, be great if they
you know my we did it together. I didn't do
it all. But you're constantly checking in, You're constantly kind
of helping them get to where they want to go.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
And the process has also reassured you because you know
that he's got all these things lined up.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So we're all sort yeah, no, kind of we arrived
not fully organized, but that that's up to him now
and it's all been taken care of. But you've kind
of the reality has been well lived. Before the actual
departure date, it was kind of kind of crapt up,
whereas my partner was just, oh no, this is going
to be terrible, like hadn't kind of lived it maybe
(14:14):
quite so much. But I also heard this theory about
mums and sons. And I think I struggled more with
the loss of my gorgeous young boy when he went
into puberty. You know that that stage where they go
from being these cuddly and over enthusiastic and communicative young
men to these grunters who can't remember why they crossed
(14:39):
the room, right, you know? You know that stage? Yeah,
I did. I actually grieved the loss of my book.
I couldn't quite put my finger on it for six months.
I was just looking at this kid, going, oh my,
what is it?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So people say it's like an alien's been dropped in
that lovely kids got off to live in a photo
album and you've got this new child.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And I couldn't find the right way to describe it.
And then I suddenly went, I'm just grieving the loss
of this boy. And then I said it to one
mother who said, I know exactly what you mean, and
don't worry. They come back. And he did. He came back,
and so that was great. But I wondered whether that
is the opportunity for mums to really start starting to
prepare to slowly let their boys go when they're sort
of narr eighteen and things.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Could I just say, you don't even have to think
of it as letting go, but just changing the relationship,
changing to a respectful friendship where you're still you're still
going to be always his mum. Yeah, you're never going
to stop being his mum. But there's also his senses
that you are now respecting him as an adult, treating
of an adult, asking his opinions and what he's going
(15:43):
to do, rather than telling him this is going to
be your opinion, this is what you're going to do,
that type of thing. And could I just say.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
For a boy, to be honest, it's been hard to
tell him what to do.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
For a boy. Men's voices in that mixed matterphor as
a lot too. And so just that respect comes with saying, hey,
I respect you as a as a man. Now. That
means so much that they're growing up New Zealand at
modern culture, that threshold experience of turning becoming a man,
(16:17):
becoming a woman. We don't formalize it very much. We
don't have bar mitzvas, we don't have initiation ceremonies and things,
but we do have things like the oe.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
We do have things like going first.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Sometimes that's not so much now. That used to be
you're given the key of the door. But now it's
more just a big party that the parents pay for
that they have for their mates. It used to be
a twenty first was all the older relatives and things
would gather there as well. I'm not maybe it still
is for.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Something No, well for some maybe, yeah, But so.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I tend to think that these opportunities of we make
a big fuss of them. We make a big fuss
of them getting their driver's license, we make a big
fuss of them going flatting, and as sort of an
acknowledgment of yes, you know, we can see that you're
growing up, we can see that you're mature enough to
handle this.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
So yeah, I want to talk a little bit more
about this sort of navigating this new stage in this
new relationship and things. I've got a friend who gets
quite sad and angry when a child leaves, and has
been through this a few times because she said, they
leave and yet they still kind of require, you know,
(17:32):
a lot of they still require a lot from her,
either financially or emotionally or you know. She says, it's
a really interesting you know, and that is that struggle
to go from that struggle. I think of the relationship.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
That she expected just to be cut and dryer than moving.
But no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
No, nobly not. I think really taken back by how
she felt about it. Actually, I think she thought, well,
here you go, you're doing what you want. This is awesome,
this is great.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
And that she labeled that emotion that she's feeling is anger.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah. Can I just think it was really self aware
when she thought about it that she came.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Out with, I'm just wondering. Sometimes we have an emotion
and we're looking around for an appropriate label to stick
on it, and it may well be grief, it may
well be I know something else that Yeah, it's but
our kids do need us that after they move away,
but they may not. And you know, people joke about, oh, yes,
(18:30):
they just turn up with a big bag of washing
and wanting a feed and finding a loan to put
new tires on their car or something like that, and yes, yes, yes,
that we sort of ride with that, and that becomes
less and less hopefully as they become more and more independent.
But hopefully there will be that sort of level of
intimacy where they can ask you for emotional support they
can express their need for family, Can I just say,
(18:54):
engineer opportunities for meeting and having meals together and family
celebrations and trips away still even if they're living away
and they may have conflicting things. No, we can't come
to that family holiday anymore. But just keep on expecting
that the family will keep on functioning like a family
in some way, even though the bed is now in
(19:16):
another suburb.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah no, No, that's a nice way of thinking about it.
Twenty five past five. Oh wait on hundred eighty ten
eighties and able to call if you want to join
the conversation and share your experience, and I'll get to
your text when we come back in just a moment.
You're with the Weekend Collective. This is the Parenting Squad, Seduity,
(19:38):
jesuit me to get a body cake.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
You know about person.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Ready heavy. It is five point thirty here on the
Parents Squad. Good to have you with us. Thank you
for your texts. I hie one text reads. My son
started UNI a few weeks ago. I like to do
the live testing at least every other day. I get
upset when he doesn't take calls a reply to my text.
(20:13):
I've told him it doesn't have to be a fifty
minute conversation. I'm okay with two minutes. If not, just
reply to my text every other day with I'm busy,
but okay talk later or something, and the text is
asking am I being unreasonable?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I don't like putting sort of you must reply sort
of things on it. It's sort of like those posts
on Facebook where you know, I'm doing a test to
see who wants to be my friend by those who
sort of answer back. I just sort of think that
sense of obligation that kids have sometimes to reply can
mean that they'll wriggle out of it if they can.
(20:48):
So I don't know if it's going to be a
totally successful strategy. I'm sure that I certainly appreciate the
fact you want to stay in touch, and can I
just say, just keep up the message is coming from you, okay,
and just and he'll be appreciating that. I think aware
of that and conscious of that, but just realize that
(21:09):
young people, young adults, they're not great at getting back
to you. They may not be that strength, and just
realize for a lot of a lot of parenthood, it's
a one way thing. You know, if you're wanting responsiveness, affection,
replies and emotional support, get a dog because you're a
young person. They just ain't wired that way, a lot
(21:30):
of them, and so you know, so, yeah, I would
not put too many you know, reply or you'll be
or be upset reply or or be get angry type
of things, implying that because in sense of obligation and
the relationship, I just don't think it's the best strategy.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
We call them proof of life texts in our house.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Oh yeah, that's a yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
And so if if you know, the kids go to
a music festival or something and they're there for three days,
like over over New Year, rhythm and vines, we were like,
we need proof of life twice a day, please, we
just want to and it can be a photo. It's
just proof of life. It's just all good. Okay, don't
ask for a lot. But that was a sort of
a slightly different scenario, maybe because what I.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Was thinking of when you were reading that is a
survey of the time that kids most often use their
phones when driving is when their parents call them. Is
that because well, if true is any survey, I guess,
but you know, they was saying that the well, first
of all, their friends don't call them they but parents
(22:35):
call and they get a rate if their kids don't
answer and threaten them and things get angry. So it's
interesting that some kids resent the fact that I am
obligated to enter into a conversation or something.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I don't know if this helps the texture at all,
But I have an arrangement with my son that on
Sunday at a time that suits him, preferably when I'm
not on air. But she forgets about I've been doing
the same show for years. We will have a week
to catch up. So he'll text and go, can we
do it at twelve thirty?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Can we do it?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
At six thirty? Can we do it? Whatever? And that
is the day that he commits to calling and telling
me about his week and the weak ahead and what's
going on and everything.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
And so, by the way, if you're listening, oh eight
hundred eighty ten eighty, if you want to talk to here,
mum can be cool, that's right, that's I am.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
But but I would just go take not you know,
not do it every second day, but actually just say hey,
let's just make a plan. What day suits you and
then yeah, it's really great. Yeah, And then actually weirdly
this week did call me randomly just for chat and
talk about a few things. So I just I've left
it because I'm the same. I sort of fliped text
(23:47):
and I get no response, and you know, life's too
busy and there's more exciting people to respond to and
I get that, but I can understand you can't. You
can start going.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
It's not that hard. No, that's a find something that will.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, just just keep playing around with it, because I
you know, we're just I know you don't like me
saying leot and go, but we are gently.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah, lengthening the least changing the relationship with that. Yes.
And the other thing is try and encourage relationships with
siblings and with dad as well, because very often people
move away and mum becomes the sole point of contact
and if dad wants to find out something, you know,
it has to be you know, via that. So it's
great if you can keep the whole family going. And
(24:29):
these Whatsapple messenger groups are great for that, where you
can everybody's in on it, even if they just bee
comparing over the shoulder of what's happening?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Can I ask? So we've been talking about leaving for
the first time, and they might head off to oe
or university or maybe boarding school even and things. And
a lot of the time, maybe when you've finished your
unicorse or three or four years later, or maybe you're moving,
so maybe there's a change you want to come home
and save some money. You return home after being away
for quite a while, having that independence, you've got a
(24:59):
slightly different relationship now, one of respect that should go
both ways hopefully return home. What do you do when
they just sort of slip back into the old kind
of routine.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Well, I think that you just remind them that are
you appreciating them as an adult now? You know, just
talk of that in terms of appreciation, because it's interesting
how you see families come back together and they resume
their role. I've seen you know, siblings, you know, they
might have been living independent lives of you. They get
back together again and then that's only their big brother
little brother relationship again, you know. And same with kids.
(25:35):
They can fall back into just being the kid and
letting mum cook and clean and do the washing and
everything like this. I think just as you walk in
and just say hey, okay, we tend to have our
showers at this time, you can use the shower at
that time. The washing machine is free after that, and
everything like this. There's a basket there.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Just give them expectations and that they're coming back to
fit into your.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
We're at all living again. Now, Yeah, you're welcome to
use the car, but just leave it full. That type
of thing.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
So if they're working, would you did you have a
charge any of your kids to sort of you know,
a little bit of money and a little bit of
board for food or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Could I just say all our kids offered, which was nice,
look at you, which was nice, But we negotiated it
down to probably sit on it was only just sort
of norminal and just say, you know, just talk about things. Hey,
we're living together as adults and so it'd be good
if you could contribute, and let's I have a talk
rather than just sort of sit on them. Just talk
(26:33):
about it in terms of positives. You're welcome to use
the cat, you know, off of these things. You're welcome
to use the washing machine, just make sure that you
know you leave it clean afterwards. So the basically you're
just saying, then you are doing your own washing, you know,
and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I've got a great text here. I left home when
I was eighteen to study in the US. With time
zones and UNI and work, I didn't call my parents much,
maybe once every few weeks. My mum's proof of life
messages became sending me cute dog Instagram videos each day
and mean liking those. That was her way of knowing
I was alive and okay. It was very smart of her.
(27:10):
The text reads she realized I was too exhausted to
engage in big conversations a lot of the time, I.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Alike, isn't that nice?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
It's good though, you know, you get your proof of life.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
She gets a little shot of than doorphins, you know,
of dolphins come up.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
There Instagram video every day and look there we go.
That brings a lot of.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Joy and everything doesn't that I've heard for ages.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Okay, we're going to take a quick break. It is
twenty three year two Sex News top. If you're feeling down, sallow,
make you you're with the parents squad. My guest is
John Cowen, love you to have you with us. Hey,
we I thought we would just touch on something else
(27:52):
this hour, and that is this week. There was a
bit of a there was a bit of a mix
up with Instagram where something quite violent and very inappropriate
for most of us to see was kind of rolled
out to people who don't normally watch that kind of material.
And we know this can happen an awful lot of
the time when we have a smartphone and we're on
social media apps and things like that. In particular, if
(28:14):
you were giving you your child their first phone, now
their first smartphone, they were entering into that world. How
do you have a conversation with your kid about the
possibility of what they may sort of discover. You don't
want them, you don't want them to go and searching
for this stuff when they hear about it, But how
do you have that conversation about what they may encounter
(28:37):
and the importance of showing and talking to parents about it.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
And it's exactly how you're putting it to me. You
should be part of your conversation of extending the trust
of having a phone is Hey, if something nasty pops
up on your screen, you know, try try not to
look at it. In fact, come and talk to me
if especially if it rattles you. But the thing is,
should your kids be having the phone, should they have
(29:02):
access to those things. There's a few things you can do.
First working out whether your KT is mature enough to
handle a phone, and I think the best way of
doing that is noticing the maturity they express in other
areas of life. Do they handle money well, Well, phones
can rack up big bills. If they're buying stuff online
and things, they can handle money in other areas, maybe
(29:23):
they can handle the responsibility. Are they losing things a lot,
are they always leasing stuff at school? Well, they might
not be able to handle the responsibility of a valuable phone.
And also if they're into mischief and other areas of
their life, then phones are great ways to get into mischief.
And so if your KIT is well behaved and responsible
in other areas, they're probably mature enough to handle having
(29:45):
a phone. And if they're not, then maybe you need
to wait a little bit. The other thing is to
access those parental controls that are built into every phone.
The thing is, though probably their first phone will be
some off brand, something from the warehouse that you never
heard of before, and how do you access the controls
in that. The great thing is that there are geeks
(30:06):
out there that make videos on YouTube, and so if
you say accessing paretal controls on OPO four nine three
two or something like that. Some geek will have made
a video on how to do step by step to
activate those things. They provide a little bit of the fence,
but the fence that you really want with kids is
in their head, that that fence of morals about Hey,
(30:30):
is this a video you're watching where someone's hurting someone else?
And that's one of the things that offends me most
often is that there's so often videos on TikTok and
Instagram and all these other things where it's road rage,
where it's mocking someone, where it's someone getting revenge, where
it's you know, it's you know, and it's manifesting something
(30:53):
which I find morally objectionable. And so it says, you
give your kids this idea of hey, I know you'd
never treat anyone like that yourself, but do you really
think you should just be soaking in this type of
stuff for entertainment, you know, this idea of watching someone
beat up someone else or being able to you know,
(31:14):
And there is that nasty stuff popping up all the time,
probably in every feed of social media, and so giving
your kids some instruction about morals, you know, how would
you like to be treated? Would that be a good
way to treat it?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
TV? You know, I mean that's a hard thing for
adults to do sometimes as well as you know, little
alone children sometimes. You know, we have a sort of
saying do no harm. So if you see something which
is clearly doing harm, then I'd probably reassess what it
is you're watching.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
One of the things that makes it harder for our
current crop of parents is that you used to have
a wonderful opportunity called watching TV where you could be
running a bit of commentary on the news, running a
bit of commentary on some of the programs that are
on there, using it as this discussion starter. But if
everyone's off staring at their own bit of glass, you
don't quite have that opportunity anymore. So maybe especially at
(32:06):
the start, you're doing a bit of watching these things
with them. So yeah, set the protal controls, check with
your kids mature enough to handle a phone anyway, and
debrief with them if they do get a shock, and
try and set up those morals in their heads that
they can handle the strange world we live in.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I really like the move that Astralia is making where
they have approved to ban social media for under sixteen
year olds, and I think that's really sensible. And if
we'd really thought about it long and hard many years ago,
we'd probably would have put those everybody would have put
those rules in place.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
But I was.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
But what I worry about is if you put that
in place. One, a lot of the time they work
out how to get on these things anyway. But two,
you're not having the conversations, you're not preparing them. So
what then they go on at sixteen? They're not prepared
for it, you know what I mean. You're going to
still deal with the same issues and have to have
those same conversations. Maybe they're more mature to be able
(33:00):
to deal with them. I don't know. I look around
at sixteen year olds and they're a mixed bag when
it comes to maturity.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
That's the thing. There's some sexteen year olds that are
more mature than I am, yeah, totally, and other twenty
three year olds that should still be eating in a
high chair they're so immature. So it's setting an actual
numerical age limit has its limits, But assessing your child's
maturity and it's amazing, you know, you know your child
and you know, are they into a bit of mischief?
(33:26):
Are they Are they trustworthy with money? And how they
handle positions and stuff like that. Usually responsibility in one
area is a good indication of their responsibility in others,
and so you get an idea of their responsibility.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I mean, I feel for parents. My kids missed I
had a smartphone, but of course we didn't have I
think we've got an iPad maybe when the kids were toddlers,
but we just hardly ever used it, and so it
wasn't out and about. And when we got smartphones, there
wasn't a lot of material or content I should say
content available for our kids at that point. Of course,
(34:01):
now there is. You know, you've got your pepper pigs,
You've got everything to entertain from a very young age up.
So when we had our phones, it wasn't something our
kids wanted to reach for because to them, there was
nothing on it. We didn't let them have them. There
was nothing on it. So I think, I mean, look,
we got away lightly because we went battling that I
(34:21):
feel for parents today. I mean, if I was back
to saying, right, I'm going to buy my children their
first phone, I would look at doing something like the
kids safe smartphone, and they've partnered with Samsung. Here's a
smartphone with so many parental controls that you can control.
There are different programs in different stages and you can control.
I would have to go to something like that because.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Well, the thing is, you can set up just met
any phone to feel like that, and so it is
probably not a dumb idea to have, perhaps I don't know,
a separate phone, one of your old phones something like that,
which you just set up just for kids. And the
good news is there is wonderful stuff on there for kids.
And you know, I personally think Blue is the most
wonderful thing that's come down the ship. Yeah, and it's
(35:05):
wonderful for kids. It's really good drama, it's really good.
It's really funny at teacher's life, and so you know it,
there's great stuff there. Where parents need to step in,
of course, is how much and when otherwise they could
spend all day just staring at the things. I mean,
these this content has been generated by experts that know
how to just grab people's attention.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
I had a toddler who just never stopped talking. You
could leave the room and they still just keep talking
to you. It just went on and I would get
to the point where and didn't like TV, didn't want
to sit and watch TV. I mean, great, it's so good,
a little loved box, loved playing, just played and talking NonStop.
And you keep to the point where you're going. We're
joined the opposite, we're going. Gosh. I really wished this
child Wood just sit down and watch anyway, John, it
(35:49):
has been a pleasure to have you with us this hour.
Thank you so much for your sage as vice as
always and thoughts. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Cheers. It is eleven to six News Talks EV.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Talk ZEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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