February 8, 2025 • 41 mins
All children have their quirks - especially coming into the teenage years.
But when does it cross the line from awkwardness to potentially needing some extra support?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks be.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
All of Me.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome back to the show. There was a slightly more
understated bit of music there. I have to just have
to point out after listening to Bruce Springsteen rip out
of a couple of breaks, that's the Beatles. Of course,
you know what interupte the Beatles too soon?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Anyway? Welcome back to the show. This is the Weekend Collective.
I am Tim Beverage, and this is the Parent Squad
and we're going to chat initially just about those I
think every parent probably well many parents. I'm going to
generalize all the time. That's probably the probably bit of
the gig really, but I reckon many parents have those
(00:59):
moments where you look at your child and you wonder
whether that little quirk you know, they've got a quirk
in their behavior and maybe actually I think back to
when I was a kid that I have any quirks, probably,
but especially coming into the teenage years and you see
those insecurities or kids that might be a little bit
awkward in certain situations and they're growing into themselves. And
I think probably these days, especially because it is more
(01:22):
part of the whole conversation around parenting is people self diagnosing,
Oh my kids on the spectrum or this, or they're
neurodivergent and all that sort of thing. And when I
say that, I don't mean I'm not playing it down,
but I think we live in an age where we
are constantly diagnosing differences in personalities. And the question I've
(01:43):
got for you is we want to hear from you
on eight hundred eighty ten eighty is have you had
those moments where you've thought, oh, gosh, such and such
a struggling a bit socially, and I wonder if there's
wonder if they're on the spectrum. I wonder if we
should get someone else to have a chat with them.
And so we thought we'd have a bit of a
chat about that on the Parent Squad eight hundred eighty
(02:03):
ten eighty Tech nine two. It's and it's about those
recognizing when those personality quirks might be pointing to something else,
which perhaps is a parent you should get a bit
more info on. And to discuss that, we're joined by
a neuroscience educator and she's in the studio for once
we're off and down the line is Catherine Burkett. She's
in town. You're in the house. How are you, Catherine?
(02:24):
Nice to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I am fabulous. Such a gorgeous day up here.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
It is, and you've been. Actually, it's funny talking to
people from out of town. My daughter was telling me
how much she loved when we went to christ Church
since she went down to the Riverside Market, and she
was saying, well, does Auckland have anything like the Riverside Market?
I said, well, not identical to it. And you've just
been too aware.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
The wind you'd.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Quarter when you cut it is absolutely gorgeous. Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
I down in Wellington.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I love Wellington with the waterfront and stuff like that,
and I used to say that Auckland doesn't have anything
to compare, but I will take that back.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Really, yes, it.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Was absolutely gorgeous down there. I enjoyed it a lot.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Good. How long are you up for?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I'm up tonight watching Gabor Marte so trauma experts tonight.
So yeah, it's not a concept.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
When you mentioned his name, I think I haven't heard
of that band. It's quite a cool sort of actually name,
isn't it?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Marte could rock away term but no, we won't be
rocking away tonight. But yeah, an expert on understanding how
trauma can impact our physical development, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I don't want to over trivialize that that question of
the name, but the name Goodbill Marte. If I was
going to see an artist called Goodball Marte, I'm picturing
a guy sitting on stage on his own with maybe
a bass or a drama but probably just a guitarist.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
I'm thinking almost a ukulele anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Now, when I we introduced the what we're talking about,
I've often I have had conversation with various parents where
they think are such and such. I think maybe my
son or daughter's on the spectrum or something, and it
is one of those things that we are. It was
forty years ago. Parents wouldn't have thought about that. So
I would have thought such and such as a little
(04:01):
bit shy or a little bit this or that, but
they wouldn't think beyond that. It's the whole neurodiversity type
of thing. What would your initial stance be for parents
who are wondering for their kids normal or not? There
we go. That's the best way. I mean, I was
(04:22):
trying to think of a way to say it, but
really just put in common and just common sense. What
if you think your kid's not normal?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, and absolutely. The way I sort of frame it
is do they feel to the world differently? And if
you think about it, we all forgel exactly so, But
like you're saying, is there is the spectrum. What I
like to ask parents is how far along the spectrum
do you think they are?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Because what is the spectrum? I'm sorry I interrupted, but
you wish, but yeah, I mean how far along the spectrum?
If you think of the spectrum, what are you thinking of?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, anything that the way you feel to the world.
So you could feel to the world with absolutely no
response to the world. You could just have We actually
remember when I was working with wrong A Tamadiki when
it was child within family. We had a young child
who had no feeling. She broke a femur and she
didn't even know it. So what I'm talking about is
that end of the spectrum is huge, no pain, no
(05:18):
aware of yourself.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Do you see, and then you're.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Right up to the top of the sensitized spectrum. And
I'm not saying it's only just feeling. It's the way
that you fell to the world. So the spectrum is
probably more of a complete colleidoscope rather than a spectrum.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Well, it reminds me of a sort of if you're
ever doing anything on Photoshop or something, you can click
on the color wheel and there's different shades and different
colors and bright and dark and right through the red, orange, yellow, blue,
and to go violet and all that. And I sort
of think that the way I would, as a lay person,
think about human behavior is that we're all just we
(05:51):
all sit at different points on this colorful sort of
in this colorful circle.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Absolutely imagine if we're all the same color, how boring
would that be. So as much as we want to
identify and understand it, we want to do something to
allow that young person and to still be who they are.
And so I would only want to go down the
lane of diagnosis or getting someone to assess it if
you think that thing is really inhibiting that young person's life,
(06:18):
because once they get labeled, and I've seen it and
I work with all these young people. Once you get
a label attached to you, it makes a difference to
the rest of your life. That label stacks, and sometimes
it's a good label because it means people understand you.
And see you differently. But if you're just slightly there,
if it's not really a big issue in your life,
and you get labeled, it can actually increase that issue
(06:38):
in your life sometimes. So I'd really want parents to
be careful about going down that track unless they really
need to. And if you really need to, it makes
a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So yeah, because if somebody, Yeah, because if a child
has been had that sort of some sort of diagnosis
and apparently I'm a little bit this or that all
of a sudden, that does seem to I mean metaphorically,
it's like a sign's been hung around you neck in
a way that is there a bit of that in it.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
And what I see one of the biggest issues is
that if a young person believes that they have got
some sort of difference, which and I don't see difference
as a negative. I just see it's a different way
of filtering the world. But sometimes they see it as
a disadvantage or something that gives them a way out,
and so they don't push through things, they don't try
harder at this. I don't need to because I'm neurodiverse.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Because I'm neurodiverse, I can't do that, and we see
a lot of young people limit themselves because they've got
some sort of label when in fact, neurodiversity and when
we say the word even neurodiversity, there's no actual definition
of neurodiversity. Some people say espurges at that autistic spectrum disorder. Sorry,
that's the official name. I would put ADHD and a
(07:46):
lot of other neurodiverse spaces into the S. So there's
no actual definition of neurodiverse that you can if you
look it up. So what I'm saying is, if your
young person is different and filtering the world differently, is
it big enough to get a diagnosis put on them?
Or can we just keep going?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
And I guess what I was about to add to
that as a follow up question would be or observation
is like, well, obviously the parents. I'm going to contradict
myself by the way, but is that parents know their
kids best? But I would have a qualification on that.
It's like, well, hang on, but does the parent know
what their own sort of anxieties are playing? And you know,
(08:26):
because you can often we can all imagine the mum
or the dad who's like, oh no, this is a
really big problem. For such and such, and then you think,
hang on a minute, how much of this is mum
and dad's problem versus the child? Do you know what
I mean? When you are projecting all these things because
of your own you're worried that your child is a
little different, So your neuroses and anxiety about it builds
(08:49):
to the extent that you're not coping with the questions.
But maybe your child is.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, And certainly when our kids are in the education system,
it does feel like a positive thing to get a
diagnosis so that we get support and we get help.
A lot of our kids life is as an adult,
and as an adult you're trying to get work, and
you trying to get jobs, and you're trying to get
through and all that sort of stuff. So sometimes I
want parents to think, yes, through the education system, because
(09:15):
you're exactly right, they think my kids having issues and
I'm stressing out about it.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I'll help them with this, but.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
I do want you to think about their whole life
and the majority of our life has lived as an adult,
not in the education system, And.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So how and how does that convert from is that basically, look,
kids might be struggling a little bit, but they shake it.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
Off sometimes, And that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Of course, that's what she was writing that song about.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
You never know, she's a pretty insightful young lady that
Taylor's have. But I don't want you to ignore it
because and even when I was when my kids were little,
I actually teacherated in the school while I was pregnant,
just to do some part time work. And there was
a young person in the class and I noticed her
over time, and I did go to her parent and say, look,
I do believe this young person has got in your adversity.
(10:01):
She was really struggling with the light and with the
sensory and all that sort of stuff. And the parent
did go and got are diagnosed. It changed the way
people worked around it, and that young girl could then
tolerate the class and really did start to blossom.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
So I'm not.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Against it, no, I'm just asking parents to think about why,
exactly as you're saying, is it about me? Is it
about me having some validation as a parent because I've
got a neurodiverse child, or is it about the child?
Is it actually about them? And do you think it
would impact and improve their life?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
How does it actually happen. How does the process go
when it comes to if there is a diagnosis that
there's whatever I know, I'm going to pretend that I
know what the diagnosis might actually sound like. But how
much does the child know about that versus I guess
maybe it's age dependent as well, because if it's something
(10:53):
where simply the adults and the people involved in that
child's education make a difference. So you were talking about
noise distraction and sensitivity and overstimulation, if they subtly changed
that environment, or does the child need to know about
that as well, or how does that work?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Almost they have to be tested, so that have to
go and see someone so they know something's happening, right,
So they're going to have to be themselves. A psychologist
is going to have to assist them and ask them
some questions and hopefully observe them and ask other people
so they'll know. I mean, it depends on young people.
Some young people I know get diagnosed and they just
like into it. That just makes their life better and
they love it. But some kids get to get diagnosis
(11:30):
and it really does change the way they see themselves.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
It's difficult because I guess what you want to know
is which way is it going to go for your child?
Because I've met people as adults who were diagnosed as
somewhere on the autism spectrum. I've done when I again
see how we get more clumsy about it because it's
not my expectise, and that I can remember one person
(11:53):
in particular who was so relieved. It's I'm so relieved
because I can relax. I can. I thought there was something,
but now I know this is the reason, and this
is how I react. And it was a mass of relief.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
To them, absolutely, And it can be similar for our
young people also interrupted and it can be similar, and
I want it to be there. And I've got lots
of friends who have been diagnosed as ADHD as adults
and all of a sudden, their whole world opens up
and they use it as a positive to extend their world.
But I also know some people who have been diagnosed
and they use it for excuses for everything that they do.
(12:27):
So there is no yes or no with this. I
want parents to be don't just go and get your
kid diagnosed because you think it's going to somehow extend
their life. I really want you to think about it,
and I really want you to think, do I think
this is the right thing for them, do they need it?
Is it going to be a positive outcome for my
young person or not?
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Because some parents would really want to know which way
their kids are going to react, because if you knew,
if you had a sense that I think my child
is seeking out, if they know that there is a
reason that they are not comfortable in this situation, they'll
be relieved, as opposed to you don't want your child
to suddenly find that this is the crush they're going
to rely on for the rest of their lives. I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Are they really struggling?
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Would be my thing.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Are they really struggling or do you? Just as a parent,
it breaks your heart because I don't know, they haven't
got friends, or they're finding things a little bit difficult,
or they are not concentrating so much. Their grades aren't
very good, so you want an excuse over there? Are
they actually struggling or is it you that's perceiving their struggle?
And that's what can happen quite often. So I really
(13:24):
want you, as a parent to ask, do I think
a diagnosis would improve the outcomes for my young person?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So I think one of the things that parents. One
of the journeys you go through as a parent is
it is that you know, younger years, you've got to
do so much for your kids, and the more the
older they get, the less and less you have to
do for them. But I think I'm probably at the
stage as a parent where I look at my kids
and I'm impressed with what they can adapt to, you know,
(13:54):
whereas if I was a worrisome sort of I'm not
sure what the expression for the helicopter parent. If I
was more like that, you know, there's that struggle to
let them actually face certain challenges and deal with them.
And is there something about with no matter where people are,
that the human ability to adapt and survive to various situations.
(14:16):
We don't give us halves enough credit for that. That's
a long winded way of saying, you've got a child
who might be a but little bit struggling with a
few things, but believe it or not, they will deal
with it because that's a survival growing up instinct, you
know what I mean. So they might be bit awkward
at twelve, and when they're twenty five, they're like, well,
you know, they've adapted along the way gosh, that's a
(14:38):
long winded a lot of whopp or wasn't it?
Speaker 5 (14:40):
I think I understood it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
But I mean, kids are more resilient than we give
them credit for, regardless of what their quirks are.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Absolutely, and a lot of this comes up in the
early adolescent time, when there's a massive change in the
brain and huge change in the brain, and we look
at our kids and we say, oh, there's suddenly this
big change. Well, actually there's really neurobiological reasons for that.
It's not because there's anything wrong there. It's because their
brain's just working differently. And so then we want to
fix them and we want to analyze it, and then
(15:07):
we think, gosh, as a parent, I've got to do
everything I can in order to make their lives better.
But what I'd really encourage some of your parents to do,
if you're not quite sure, is if you know anyone
who has older young people, ask them, did you notice
your adolescent having issues? Or did you notice your seven
year old or nine year old having these quicks? And
I bet you they go yeah, Actually you'll find someone
who says yes, and how are they now? Actually do it?
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Really? Well?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
You know like I think we do in some ways
have to just as you're saying, not get too involved
in the moment and relax a little bit.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
That's the funniest conversations I've had on the sports field
or somewhere with other parents and you go, Chris, you
think that my daughter's going through such a rude phase
or something. And then you say, hay, by the way,
do you get a bit of attitude on X, Y
and Z. And every other parent goes, oh, yes, absolutely,
and you're like, oh, thank god, hallelujah. We're on the
same boat.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Absolutely, And instead of pathologizing it, you normalize it and
you go, actually, this is something that is And also,
by the way, now social media is so different than
when I was a kid. My parents didn't look and go,
oh look, everybody else is getting a prize, and everybody
else is getting a this, and everybody else is in
there and Caterine's not, so there must be something wrong
with it. Luckily that never happened. I didn't get any
(16:20):
prizes and my parents.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Were as normal I thought you were saying. Luckily that
wasn't a problem because I got.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
All the no, no, not at all, I got no prizes,
and luckily my parents didn't expect me to get any
prizes because nobody they knew got any prizes.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Look, we want your calls on this as well. But
if you've got any questions for Catherine, or if you've
been through that moment as appearance where your parent, where
you were wondering as my kid normal and at what
stage did you think? It's at a point where I'm
actually concerned and what did you do about it? We'd
love to hear your experiences or if you're seeking a
little bit of advice give it was a call. Eight
(16:52):
hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine nine two. It's
twenty three past five. Then everybody like California, you see them,
we're in their.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Bad where you sells.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This is the
Parents Squad. My guest is Katheryn Burkett talking about I've
been I've been dancing around the edge, trying not to
be trying to be politically correct or safe. But you
know what if you think your kid's not normal, and
at what stage do you maybe decide you need to
get some other advice on the subway one hundred eight
ten eighty. Actually, before we get into it. Katheryn Burkett,
who's our Yesterday and your science educator. You've you've been
(17:43):
working on a new book. Tell us about that before
you get in before we because you're looking for a title,
so we can throw it out to the text us
to see what the title should be.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
It's actually my first book, so not that's my first.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Books, so yes, but it is the only one.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Yes, it is the only one. Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
As I tell you what, writing a book is not
the heresier thing, especially when you talk well, I love
talking writing, Well, why don't you just I tried, but
it's not it's yeah, anyway, we won't get into that.
That's not easy.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
I'm ture everything.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
But I've just sent it to the editor, so I'm
very excited about that. It's about the adolescent brain change
and it's aimed at pearents.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
So yeah, and what's it telling people? What's what's the message?
Is Is it for kids or is it for the parents.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
It's for the parents, but some parts of it easily
the young people could read themselves because I write in
a very I'm trying to write in a very non
academicy way.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And you haven't got a title for it yet.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I haven't. I've got a bit of an idea.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, and what's the general message of the title then,
Because I'm going to because I know you, I know
a little bit more about this, but I'm going to
because I want to throw it out because something you
might get a brilliant suggestion on the text for me might.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
And if somebody does come up with a suggestion that
I use, I will send you a free edition of
the book. Even some good ideas. But I am currently
thinking about chill the beep out. But my lovely daughter
pointed out that that may cheapen the message.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
But especially for parents, it's like chill out, get over yourselves.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Yes, parents chilling out, because I think if we chilled
and just got through this just I certainly personally got
through both my kids adolescence way better by chilling out
and just not stressing, you know, don't sweet the small stuff.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
Okay, yeah, so there you go.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Any ideas of a book for parents to catch them
on the bookshelf?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Okay, you didn't send you some suggestions? And right, let's
go to some calls.
Speaker 7 (19:25):
Suzanne, Hello, oh hello, and hello Catherine. Hi, I just
missed because I was on the transfer between radio and phone.
What your book is about? I heard you talking about
chill out sort of.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
It's about dealing with teenagers. And the title they were
playing with was just chill out, just stop worrying. They'll
turn out all right in the end.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yes, yes, no, thank you. That wasn't what I was ringing.
But I just thought, oh, I've missed what the book's about.
Thank you. I just wanted to know that where you
go or how you go about getting people tested for
the neurodiversity spectrum the aspergis, autism, ADHD, et cetera, but
(20:13):
also specifically for adults, young adults who have been diagnosed
as dyslexia or told they were dyslexic when they're at
school and they've left school and now they're a young
adult and they're still having problems with reading and writing.
You know, they're getting by, but they want to improve it.
(20:33):
So can you tell me where you go to get
tested for dyslexia to get that in depth testing, what
kind of dyslexia or what's their problem in that language
reading area?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Where do you start sort of thing?
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah, yeah, and great, And obviously there's probably different avenues
and the only ones that I talk to. But doctors
are only enough the first port of call and they
will refer you on. But there's if you've already if
you know you've got an issue. Honestly, the Internet is
just massive and things like for dyslex and dyspraxia, there's
certain glasses you can try. You can honestly just get
(21:08):
some colored glass and try those and see if that
works before you spend any money on them.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
You can look at it, but still need further assistance
because obviously there's something else in the problem apart from
the glasses changing with the color leans, et cetera. So
I do entry.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Places like spelled who can help you with those sorts
of things, because you're probably not looking for a diagnosis
that you're probably looking for some support. And again if
you google support groups and stuff like that, there'll be
people around, but you really need to make sure you
go to the right places. Well that unfortunately it is yere.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I've just go I've just done a quick google now
and dyslexia in New Zealand and there is an organization
called Dyslexia Evidence based on deb dot karenin z and
it's lots of questions there, But I'm you've got to
be careful with the Internet.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Of course, yes, of course, and that's why I'm asking
an expert in the field. Whatevenues you go to? Is
there something through the education department.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Once you've left school you could look at tertiary education support.
If they are in the tertiary education system, you could
look through that space they've gone beyond.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Oh no, they're probably semi in that, but struggling I think.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I think the Catherine's expertise is not in particularly in
the area of dyslexia, so it's difficult to stay in
the right direction on that one, Suzanne. But actually that
often it is your GP when it comes to things. Obviously,
if it's a school thing, if your child is struggling
with the ALEXA at school, the schools will have the
resources and the connections to put you in touch, I
would imagine.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
But you look at ARCH so if you're in the
school system, you'd look at resource teacher and learning and behavior.
They can help you on that sort of track. But
a doctor, funnily enough, is one of your first avenues
into getting into those other people that are more expert.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
How does it happen in school with children, if they're
looking at a diagnosis from around the autism spectrum or something,
does that still go through the health side of things
or does the school.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
General You've got to go because it's got to be
a psychologist or a psychiatrist. It's actually diagnosing this sort
of DSM diagnostic statistic manual level diagnoses. So you don't
And also, by the way, can I really say, and
I work with a lot of people, I don't do
diagnoses myself. I don't personally, you know, delve into that space.
But I know a lot of people that do. And
there's a lot of stick on people who take ages
(23:23):
to do diagnoses, and personally, if your child has been
diagnosed very very quickly, with you know, quite these complex diagnoses,
I don't actually value those diagnoses. I want it to
take a long time. I want these people to understand
this young person in lots of different context, not just
look at a piece of paper with some ticks on it.
So do respect the psychologists and the psychiatrists that are
doing these diagnoses. It takes a long time, but that's
(23:46):
to the advantage of your child.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
All right, let's take some more calls. Vanessa Good afternoon.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
He's good, afternoon, thank you for taking my call. I'm
a grandma with a ten year old dyslexic and ADAHD
diagnosed grandson and a seven year old very handsy little
girl reports from the school. Sho's pun ha w kicked
the kid. She's got no friends. She'll walk past her
brother and kick them or punch them. And you ask
(24:11):
her why she goes. I don't know why. She's fine
one moment and really violent the next, and ask why,
and she just doesn't does not know what the trigger is.
She's struggled at school until she has moved to another
school and her schoolwork's improved, but she's got no friends.
So she's a very very bossy organizing little girl. Eventhing
(24:31):
black and white and there's no gray area. I don't
know where to go with this. She has got an
appointment awaiting at Marinoto and that's a star as we're
able to get for her.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
What's Maronoto? Do you know?
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Catherine's try It's like a can't.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
It's her child adolescent diagnosis, such your psychologist and psychiatrists
and there are.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Is that correct?
Speaker 6 (24:50):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yep so, and obviously it's a way bigger thing than
we can chat about here. But what I loved hearing
you say is that when she went to a new school,
things changed. So what I really want you to look
at is what's the difference, what's the positive thing? And
I'll put a lot of money on the fact that
the news school is actually making her feel safe, is
connecting with her, actually not blaming her for the negative
behavior that she's doing, and forming a relationship with her.
(25:13):
And this is the main training I do around the country,
understanding a brain that's just regulated for whatever reason. Is
the first and most important thing is to make her
feel safe. So even at home, I want us to
make her feel a bit more accepted. And notice that
when you give her lots of attention, let's lots of
whatever she likes. I'm going to say cuddles, but it
might not be. It might be playing games with her
(25:33):
or whatever. Does she had her brother less? Does she
lash out us?
Speaker 6 (25:36):
Oh no, She's going to have a whole day of
absolute bliss, been a nice, nice child. And then she'll
walk past and kick him in the head and I'll say,
why did you do that? She said, I don't know.
I says, you've heard him and She looks at him
and she goes, I don't care.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
So there is. But you've got an appointment pending.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Do you?
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Yes, we do. But I'm just wondering is that a
physical then or is that an emotional thing that she's
dealing with.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
It could be.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
So there's so much there and it's an interesting It's
definitely an interesting case and something I'd like to look at.
And I'm pretty sure this is not the case, but
I'm going to throw it out there. We do have
to be really careful about how much online stuff people
are observing and doing because it does program our brain.
And I'm not saying she is, but it's potential. And
if other people are listening in this state, is that
if our kids are watching violence online a lot, they
(26:24):
can actually engage in it without even realizing. It becomes
natural to them. So I maybe ask you to think
about that or if it's there, but I'm not saying is.
But that's one thing we do.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
To cell phones curse they are, Hey, thanks for your car, Vanessa,
thank you. A couple of texts here before we head
to another break. Absolutely have suspected both kids have quirked
since preschool age as person writes, one is being diagnosed
with ADHD and ODD oppositional definance.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
What's that oppositional? So if I tell you to do something,
you won't do it? Oh?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Okay, that does sound like most kids. That sounds like
it sounds like every kidd Sorry, not want to make
light of it, but I guess there's the point where
it becomes anyway ADHD and O d D. In other words,
do make your bed, no make me uh? And the
(27:18):
other wasn't diagnosed, but I suspect maybe aspergers as many characteristics.
My brother is self diagnosed aspergers, self diagnosed expergers, okay,
and my brother and I diagnosed my sister with Aspergers,
and I'm just weird. Oh okay, Okay. I think that's
a slightly satirical text from Luisa. I didn't really quite
get through to the end of that one. But odd.
(27:39):
Is that actually a real thing then?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Or is it it's in the diagnostic statistic manual. Yes,
you can be diagnosed with oppositional defiance disorder.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
And most kids would go through that, wouldn't they. Many
children would go through oppositional defance disorder, wouldn't they?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Catherine Again, Okay, I'm being very careful. We've never got
the time to dig into that in an appropriate way.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Can we just say, actually, can I ask why do
kids go through let's just putting aside that you know
the letters of the alphabet and when I mean oddhda, fine,
my love.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
No, I'm just saying why do they go to for difinan?
Why why do kids go through that phase of just
like can you do this for me?
Speaker 3 (28:16):
No?
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Why not?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Because as humans, our whole point is to survive, and
one of the most important things for survival is to
have a higher status, is to have control over yourself.
If you don't have control over yourself, you're in danger.
So when kids learn they have a level of control.
So it happens a lot around three and a half
four years old. It happens a lot again at that
sort of eight year old when they can and then
(28:38):
adolescent age, those stages when they're separating more they have
control over themselves. It's completely normal.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I would suspect you mentioned some numbers there. I reckon
their appearents listening going happens at twelve and thirteen, you
know it happens at fourteen and fifteen. But there is
something in that though because it comes a point where
you can't necessarily tell your kids off. You've got to
sort of say could you help me with this please,
or you've instead of hey, do this, and they eventually
(29:05):
going nah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Yeah, And I think it's from a very young age.
We've got to form this understanding with our young people
that there's a reason I'm asking you to do this,
and I'm not about big softing and going oh, there's
no consequences. Absolutely, my kids have had lots of consequences,
but those consequences are done with my kids rather than
at my kids. And they get to the point where
they do. My kids have said no to me quite
a few times, but it gets to a point where
(29:28):
I say no, actually, now it's the end of and
you're doing it, so they do know when the end is.
But it is absolutely normal for our kids to wont
to have controller.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
First text that came in after I read that one
said oh my god, odd natural, And I did mouth
that at you when I was reading that text sort
of as well. That sounded like quite quite a common thing.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
It is a diagnos It is an official diagnosis that
you can get diagnosed though, and this is and as
much as it's real. It's also why I don't like
diagnoses because and also, by the way, when you said esperges,
esperges is now not an official diagnosis, and the Diagnosics
Statistic Manual they've taken it out. It doesn't exist anymore now,
it's only an autistic spectrum disorder.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Welluse. I googled it elon Musk the other day and
at Seidi at Aspergers, and I thought to myself, that's
old school.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yes exactly, it's not. But it's not a lot. But
to see, this is why we've got to be careful
with diagnosis. They're not actually something like Down syndrome, young
people with Down syndrome. That's never changed because it's a
genetic condition. You don't get to change that. Yeah, okay,
these things are behavioral observational diagnoses.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Okay, I love that one. Odd what is it? Oppositional
defiance disorder. I'm going to roll that out against one
of my kids next time they say no to me,
saying I'm thinking you've got a case of oppositional defiance disorder.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I think you should have oppositional defiance disorder and say
no to your kids and go what's not my fault.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
I've got oppositional defiance disorder.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
There's another tool, and that's another one arrow in my
quiver and another person. Oh this is just a reflection.
This text here to be honest. I feel people today
rely on answers from social media. ADHD has blown out
of proportion. Up personally something at one hundred miles an hour.
I go, yeah, they've just hit the wrong letter.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
Because they're going at A because they're going in.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
It says, I personally ho at one hundred miles an hour,
and I realize HS next to the G on the keyboard.
So I personally go on a hundred miles a hour.
But I don't look to be diagnosed and make a
drama situation of something that's normal. It's not abnormal. Who's
to say Johnny is ADHD when he's super active, don't
punish and work with him by burning the energy. I'm
no doctor, but it seems once or Mum and Dad
finds out from a supposed diagnosis, it tells everyone what
(31:37):
It tells everyone what is due we have and the
woke card comes out. Just live life as it comes. Look,
we don't want to overplay that, but there is something
in that isn't there.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, And obviously I work with ADHD a lot, and
my question is, do you think it's improving the quality
of life for the young person by what we're doing?
Speaker 5 (31:54):
And quite often and sometimes it is by the way.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I've got young people who beg for their medication, and
they want their medication at lunchtime and every day because
it makes it easier for them, and some just beg
not to have it and they please, please don't. So
we've really got to think more widely than just you've
got ADHD, so let's medicate. We really really need to
think differently.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I've got a couple of interesting texts which we're going
to deal with straight after the break because I'm dying
to read the mat now because i love to live
in the moment. But we're going to take a moment.
It's eighteen minutes to six news talks. He'd bit me.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Gat bind we.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Know about me.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
About Welcome back to the week in Collective of Parents Squad,
I'm Tim Beverage. My guest is neuroscience educator Catherine Burkett,
and we're talking about neurodivergency and when to get your
child looked at. If you think your child's not normal,
and I'm just using sort of lay terms myself on that.
We've got a few texts on the odd thing or
(33:03):
positional defiance to sort. Look, you know, if you if
you've if you've got questions about that, that's probably not
our ballpark to be talking about that today, but I've
do have a couple of questions on the text machine
to hand to you there. Catherine One says, can neurodivergency
or diversity or I'm losing my terminology, but can the
things that you might be concerned about with your child?
(33:25):
How often is it genetic that you might notice red
flags and your kids? But perhaps you should get yourself
assessed first. Does it get passed.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
On some things?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (33:34):
Sorry, some things.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Definitely definitely In the things with the auto sus spectrum disorder,
we definitely see something in genetics. And you can see
at birth a difference in let's talk about long milination,
short malination, all those sorts of things. They can actually
see it in the brain, so it is highly likely
that that can be genetic. There's also other things that
can cause or to suspectrum disorder, so it's not only genetic.
(33:57):
Most things could be genetic and might also be environmental.
So nothing's an absolute.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Just from shooting the breeze. Point of view is that
something that's some times happens is that the child might
get diagnosed, and so mum or dad might actually think, hmm.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
It's happened so often looked at. They sit in the
office and they listen to the diagnosis and they do
that in nick minute, they go, ah, that's sort of
what I'm experiencing as well, because especially when we were younger,
and you know, like and the older version of life,
and when we were at school, these things weren't picked up.
But also we had a lot more sensory movement. We're
out doing sports, a lot more doing music, doing folk dancing,
(34:32):
all of that sort of stuff. So we weren't expected
to spend a lot of time concentrating in one space,
which is what's increased now in school. So you're actually
highlighting that stuff. So a lot of people got through
because there wasn't such an expectation, do you see, And
so then they got through and now as an adult
they're going, ah, and it does help people. It does
make a big difference and they can go, oh, okay,
(34:53):
I'm going to be a bit different. I'm going to
wear earphones around too much noise so that I can
actually go out socially those sorts of things. Please go,
you know, do that. But it does happen a lot that. Yeah,
the adults get diagnosed with the young people because there's
some neurodiversities are more likely to be genetic and some aren't.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Actually, just on the whole genetic thing. We've been going
through some photos because we want to get some photos
printed off of her family for in law sort of thing,
and it is quite It does amaze me. It never
ceases to amaze me how just mannerisms can be passed on.
(35:31):
Where there was a shot of one of my daughters
and my wife said, that's your mother right there, and
it was a little video and it was just an
expression and I saw it and it was it wasn't
It wasn't that she looked like my mum, but she
there was a mannerism that she'd picked and she hadn't
picked it up either. And then there was another moment
with the same daughter suddenly looking like a different member
of the family. But isn't it amazing how I don't
(35:53):
understand just what our kids have inherited in terms of
facial features and expressions and reactions that have nothing to
do necessarily with I don't know anything in terms of
their real look. But isn't it funny that expressions can
be passed on or reactions in the style of reacting.
(36:14):
It's amazing, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
There's so much passed down through our genet X, our
personality types and now that and when we do when
we do map, you know, with young people the fucker
papa and saying have you got someone like that?
Speaker 5 (36:24):
Like someone will come up to me and go, oh,
there's this.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Really weird behavior and I'll go think back, think back, uncle, grandfather, auntie,
what that sort of stuff, And they go, actually, they
were really like that, And I'm like, it can gep.
There's so much that we don't understand of Actually, I
think she started my masters have applied neuroscience through King's
College London.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
That sounds great.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
It's very flash and it's very taxing on the brain.
But we're getting right down to the molecular structure of
cells and proteins and all that s of stuff. And
I tell you what it is, absolutely our brain is
the most fascinating thing. So yeah, we and we don't
know enough about it to make any solid conclusions. By
the way, we're still guessing on a lot of us.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
If you're studying any course at King's College, if it
was applied neuroscience, I imagine that sounds like it's quite intense.
Just going to take a wild guess. I've got a
couple of titles for your book. Somebody has said they
you should call it. I'm fine, How do I prove it?
It's a cute idea, and parental perseverance brings peace.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Does it?
Speaker 3 (37:25):
I suppose after it once, I think you bring peace.
My son's eighteen and my daughter's twenty one, and I
have got to a level of peace now. But it's
just because Actually, even if I think I should say
something to my just don't anymore because it's done.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
I'm done.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
So I think I've got to peace now, but I
don't know that I've got to peace during the adolescent stage.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
How about Hey, mum, it's not me, it's you. That's
actually not bad. Actually I'll quite like that one.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
You'll get a book anyway. You don't have to make.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
This is a little unrelated, but we can indulge ourselves.
Why am I better? This is just a general parenting question,
but I do like this question, why am I a
better grandparent than I was as a parent? Daughter always
tells me.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
That, yeah, I watched my mother.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
My hair used to back of my neck, used to
curl with my mother talking to me, and actually just
is so kind to my kids. And in fact, actually
if you look at Eric Erickson's developmental stages, he talks
at a certain age, we just become more reflective on life,
and we sort of stopped fussing over things too much.
And that is why if we actually lived naturally and
(38:30):
we lived on the mote or in a village, the
older generation would spend a lot of time with our
toddlers and our kids, and they would have chilled out more.
As a parent, I was really like, I haven't got
the time for your tantrums. I haven't got the time
for your behavior even as an adolescent. Right as an
older person, you would be more chilled out right, And
so definitely it's because you were supposed to do the
(38:52):
main parenting modeling for our young people. The parents were
supposed to be out there earning the money and doing
the jobs.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Du see parents later. Of course, in some moment. Grandma
and granddad aren't s around for that long age.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
No, and I get that, but I'm saying if we
look at historical anthropological research, absolutely so why I say so,
what this person needs to do is spend.
Speaker 5 (39:11):
More time with you.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Do we want to become a hippie and go and
live in a commune and just say, look, you go
down and see such and such today with kids?
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Anyway, Look, we'll be back in a ticket's eight minutes
to sex news talks.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
He'd b.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Well, that wraps up the parents quite pretty much. But
if you want to check out the work of Captain Burkert,
where is that? Where do we go, Catherine? It's Engaged
Training dot co dot n Z.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
Yeah, I've got a website.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
There's a few free resources on there, a couple of articles,
so go check it out. And I'm going to be
making a few more over the next few months.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
So yes, And you've got your book coming out and
we'll see if we can come up with a title
for that in the interim. But great to see and
enjoy your evening at what who Gible? Marty Gible Marty
and it is again he's what is he?
Speaker 5 (40:03):
What was his special all my specialist.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
So because at the moment I filed him away under
like a cat's sing guy with a guitar on the
stage or something. Anyway, that would be funny if he
pulls out and said, before we start, I'm going to
play a little chern and you'd be like, well, we
predicted this anyway, Thank you so much for your company
this afternoon. Looking ahead to tomorrow, we've got I think
there's a government announcement coming out tomorrow. I'm not sure
what's happening, but we'll be having Politics Central at three o'clock.
(40:26):
But just looking a little bit further ahead, Ganish Raj
is joining us for the Health Hub. He's the guy
from eat Well for Less but also Meals just simple
ways of doing doing meals from canned food. What are
the simple ways of putting together a lovely meal for
your family? But also do you know how to read
the nutrients through the ingredients? And we're going to talk
(40:48):
about that. And for smart Money, Martin Hawes joins us
because the number of people behind their mortgages has increased
dramatically in December. We have a chat about that and
when how often should you review your key? We say
about lots of stuff. Tomorrow, Thanks to my producer, Tire Roberts,
I look for your company, same time. Roman travers up. Next,
News Talk said.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
For more from the Weekend Collective. Listen live to News
Talks It'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks be.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
All of Me.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome back to the show. There was a slightly more
understated bit of music there. I have to just have
to point out after listening to Bruce Springsteen rip out
of a couple of breaks, that's the Beatles. Of course,
you know what interupte the Beatles too soon?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Anyway? Welcome back to the show. This is the Weekend Collective.
I am Tim Beverage, and this is the Parent Squad
and we're going to chat initially just about those I
think every parent probably well many parents. I'm going to
generalize all the time. That's probably the probably bit of
the gig really, but I reckon many parents have those
(00:59):
moments where you look at your child and you wonder
whether that little quirk you know, they've got a quirk
in their behavior and maybe actually I think back to
when I was a kid that I have any quirks, probably,
but especially coming into the teenage years and you see
those insecurities or kids that might be a little bit
awkward in certain situations and they're growing into themselves. And
I think probably these days, especially because it is more
(01:22):
part of the whole conversation around parenting is people self diagnosing,
Oh my kids on the spectrum or this, or they're
neurodivergent and all that sort of thing. And when I
say that, I don't mean I'm not playing it down,
but I think we live in an age where we
are constantly diagnosing differences in personalities. And the question I've
(01:43):
got for you is we want to hear from you
on eight hundred eighty ten eighty is have you had
those moments where you've thought, oh, gosh, such and such
a struggling a bit socially, and I wonder if there's
wonder if they're on the spectrum. I wonder if we
should get someone else to have a chat with them.
And so we thought we'd have a bit of a
chat about that on the Parent Squad eight hundred eighty
(02:03):
ten eighty Tech nine two. It's and it's about those
recognizing when those personality quirks might be pointing to something else,
which perhaps is a parent you should get a bit
more info on. And to discuss that, we're joined by
a neuroscience educator and she's in the studio for once
we're off and down the line is Catherine Burkett. She's
in town. You're in the house. How are you, Catherine?
(02:24):
Nice to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I am fabulous. Such a gorgeous day up here.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
It is, and you've been. Actually, it's funny talking to
people from out of town. My daughter was telling me
how much she loved when we went to christ Church
since she went down to the Riverside Market, and she
was saying, well, does Auckland have anything like the Riverside Market?
I said, well, not identical to it. And you've just
been too aware.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
The wind you'd.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Quarter when you cut it is absolutely gorgeous. Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
I down in Wellington.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I love Wellington with the waterfront and stuff like that,
and I used to say that Auckland doesn't have anything
to compare, but I will take that back.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Really, yes, it.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Was absolutely gorgeous down there. I enjoyed it a lot.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Good. How long are you up for?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I'm up tonight watching Gabor Marte so trauma experts tonight.
So yeah, it's not a concept.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
When you mentioned his name, I think I haven't heard
of that band. It's quite a cool sort of actually name,
isn't it?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Marte could rock away term but no, we won't be
rocking away tonight. But yeah, an expert on understanding how
trauma can impact our physical development, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I don't want to over trivialize that that question of
the name, but the name Goodbill Marte. If I was
going to see an artist called Goodball Marte, I'm picturing
a guy sitting on stage on his own with maybe
a bass or a drama but probably just a guitarist.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
I'm thinking almost a ukulele anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Now, when I we introduced the what we're talking about,
I've often I have had conversation with various parents where
they think are such and such. I think maybe my
son or daughter's on the spectrum or something, and it
is one of those things that we are. It was
forty years ago. Parents wouldn't have thought about that. So
I would have thought such and such as a little
(04:01):
bit shy or a little bit this or that, but
they wouldn't think beyond that. It's the whole neurodiversity type
of thing. What would your initial stance be for parents
who are wondering for their kids normal or not? There
we go. That's the best way. I mean, I was
(04:22):
trying to think of a way to say it, but
really just put in common and just common sense. What
if you think your kid's not normal?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, and absolutely. The way I sort of frame it
is do they feel to the world differently? And if
you think about it, we all forgel exactly so, But
like you're saying, is there is the spectrum. What I
like to ask parents is how far along the spectrum
do you think they are?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Because what is the spectrum? I'm sorry I interrupted, but
you wish, but yeah, I mean how far along the spectrum?
If you think of the spectrum, what are you thinking of?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, anything that the way you feel to the world.
So you could feel to the world with absolutely no
response to the world. You could just have We actually
remember when I was working with wrong A Tamadiki when
it was child within family. We had a young child
who had no feeling. She broke a femur and she
didn't even know it. So what I'm talking about is
that end of the spectrum is huge, no pain, no
(05:18):
aware of yourself.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Do you see, and then you're.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Right up to the top of the sensitized spectrum. And
I'm not saying it's only just feeling. It's the way
that you fell to the world. So the spectrum is
probably more of a complete colleidoscope rather than a spectrum.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Well, it reminds me of a sort of if you're
ever doing anything on Photoshop or something, you can click
on the color wheel and there's different shades and different
colors and bright and dark and right through the red, orange, yellow, blue,
and to go violet and all that. And I sort
of think that the way I would, as a lay person,
think about human behavior is that we're all just we
(05:51):
all sit at different points on this colorful sort of
in this colorful circle.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Absolutely imagine if we're all the same color, how boring
would that be. So as much as we want to
identify and understand it, we want to do something to
allow that young person and to still be who they are.
And so I would only want to go down the
lane of diagnosis or getting someone to assess it if
you think that thing is really inhibiting that young person's life,
(06:18):
because once they get labeled, and I've seen it and
I work with all these young people. Once you get
a label attached to you, it makes a difference to
the rest of your life. That label stacks, and sometimes
it's a good label because it means people understand you.
And see you differently. But if you're just slightly there,
if it's not really a big issue in your life,
and you get labeled, it can actually increase that issue
(06:38):
in your life sometimes. So I'd really want parents to
be careful about going down that track unless they really
need to. And if you really need to, it makes
a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So yeah, because if somebody, Yeah, because if a child
has been had that sort of some sort of diagnosis
and apparently I'm a little bit this or that all
of a sudden, that does seem to I mean metaphorically,
it's like a sign's been hung around you neck in
a way that is there a bit of that in it.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
And what I see one of the biggest issues is
that if a young person believes that they have got
some sort of difference, which and I don't see difference
as a negative. I just see it's a different way
of filtering the world. But sometimes they see it as
a disadvantage or something that gives them a way out,
and so they don't push through things, they don't try
harder at this. I don't need to because I'm neurodiverse.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Because I'm neurodiverse, I can't do that, and we see
a lot of young people limit themselves because they've got
some sort of label when in fact, neurodiversity and when
we say the word even neurodiversity, there's no actual definition
of neurodiversity. Some people say espurges at that autistic spectrum disorder. Sorry,
that's the official name. I would put ADHD and a
(07:46):
lot of other neurodiverse spaces into the S. So there's
no actual definition of neurodiverse that you can if you
look it up. So what I'm saying is, if your
young person is different and filtering the world differently, is
it big enough to get a diagnosis put on them?
Or can we just keep going?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
And I guess what I was about to add to
that as a follow up question would be or observation
is like, well, obviously the parents. I'm going to contradict
myself by the way, but is that parents know their
kids best? But I would have a qualification on that.
It's like, well, hang on, but does the parent know
what their own sort of anxieties are playing? And you know,
(08:26):
because you can often we can all imagine the mum
or the dad who's like, oh no, this is a
really big problem. For such and such, and then you think,
hang on a minute, how much of this is mum
and dad's problem versus the child? Do you know what
I mean? When you are projecting all these things because
of your own you're worried that your child is a
little different, So your neuroses and anxiety about it builds
(08:49):
to the extent that you're not coping with the questions.
But maybe your child is.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, And certainly when our kids are in the education system,
it does feel like a positive thing to get a
diagnosis so that we get support and we get help.
A lot of our kids life is as an adult,
and as an adult you're trying to get work, and
you trying to get jobs, and you're trying to get
through and all that sort of stuff. So sometimes I
want parents to think, yes, through the education system, because
(09:15):
you're exactly right, they think my kids having issues and
I'm stressing out about it.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I'll help them with this, but.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
I do want you to think about their whole life
and the majority of our life has lived as an adult,
not in the education system, And.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So how and how does that convert from is that basically, look,
kids might be struggling a little bit, but they shake it.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
Off sometimes, And that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Of course, that's what she was writing that song about.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
You never know, she's a pretty insightful young lady that
Taylor's have. But I don't want you to ignore it
because and even when I was when my kids were little,
I actually teacherated in the school while I was pregnant,
just to do some part time work. And there was
a young person in the class and I noticed her
over time, and I did go to her parent and say, look,
I do believe this young person has got in your adversity.
(10:01):
She was really struggling with the light and with the
sensory and all that sort of stuff. And the parent
did go and got are diagnosed. It changed the way
people worked around it, and that young girl could then
tolerate the class and really did start to blossom.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
So I'm not.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Against it, no, I'm just asking parents to think about why,
exactly as you're saying, is it about me? Is it
about me having some validation as a parent because I've
got a neurodiverse child, or is it about the child?
Is it actually about them? And do you think it
would impact and improve their life?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
How does it actually happen. How does the process go
when it comes to if there is a diagnosis that
there's whatever I know, I'm going to pretend that I
know what the diagnosis might actually sound like. But how
much does the child know about that versus I guess
maybe it's age dependent as well, because if it's something
(10:53):
where simply the adults and the people involved in that
child's education make a difference. So you were talking about
noise distraction and sensitivity and overstimulation, if they subtly changed
that environment, or does the child need to know about
that as well, or how does that work?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Almost they have to be tested, so that have to
go and see someone so they know something's happening, right,
So they're going to have to be themselves. A psychologist
is going to have to assist them and ask them
some questions and hopefully observe them and ask other people
so they'll know. I mean, it depends on young people.
Some young people I know get diagnosed and they just
like into it. That just makes their life better and
they love it. But some kids get to get diagnosis
(11:30):
and it really does change the way they see themselves.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
It's difficult because I guess what you want to know
is which way is it going to go for your child?
Because I've met people as adults who were diagnosed as
somewhere on the autism spectrum. I've done when I again
see how we get more clumsy about it because it's
not my expectise, and that I can remember one person
(11:53):
in particular who was so relieved. It's I'm so relieved
because I can relax. I can. I thought there was something,
but now I know this is the reason, and this
is how I react. And it was a mass of relief.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
To them, absolutely, And it can be similar for our
young people also interrupted and it can be similar, and
I want it to be there. And I've got lots
of friends who have been diagnosed as ADHD as adults
and all of a sudden, their whole world opens up
and they use it as a positive to extend their world.
But I also know some people who have been diagnosed
and they use it for excuses for everything that they do.
(12:27):
So there is no yes or no with this. I
want parents to be don't just go and get your
kid diagnosed because you think it's going to somehow extend
their life. I really want you to think about it,
and I really want you to think, do I think
this is the right thing for them, do they need it?
Is it going to be a positive outcome for my
young person or not?
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Because some parents would really want to know which way
their kids are going to react, because if you knew,
if you had a sense that I think my child
is seeking out, if they know that there is a
reason that they are not comfortable in this situation, they'll
be relieved, as opposed to you don't want your child
to suddenly find that this is the crush they're going
to rely on for the rest of their lives. I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Are they really struggling?
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Would be my thing.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Are they really struggling or do you? Just as a parent,
it breaks your heart because I don't know, they haven't
got friends, or they're finding things a little bit difficult,
or they are not concentrating so much. Their grades aren't
very good, so you want an excuse over there? Are
they actually struggling or is it you that's perceiving their struggle?
And that's what can happen quite often. So I really
(13:24):
want you, as a parent to ask, do I think
a diagnosis would improve the outcomes for my young person?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So I think one of the things that parents. One
of the journeys you go through as a parent is
it is that you know, younger years, you've got to
do so much for your kids, and the more the
older they get, the less and less you have to
do for them. But I think I'm probably at the
stage as a parent where I look at my kids
and I'm impressed with what they can adapt to, you know,
(13:54):
whereas if I was a worrisome sort of I'm not
sure what the expression for the helicopter parent. If I
was more like that, you know, there's that struggle to
let them actually face certain challenges and deal with them.
And is there something about with no matter where people are,
that the human ability to adapt and survive to various situations.
(14:16):
We don't give us halves enough credit for that. That's
a long winded way of saying, you've got a child
who might be a but little bit struggling with a
few things, but believe it or not, they will deal
with it because that's a survival growing up instinct, you
know what I mean. So they might be bit awkward
at twelve, and when they're twenty five, they're like, well,
you know, they've adapted along the way gosh, that's a
(14:38):
long winded a lot of whopp or wasn't it?
Speaker 5 (14:40):
I think I understood it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
But I mean, kids are more resilient than we give
them credit for, regardless of what their quirks are.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Absolutely, and a lot of this comes up in the
early adolescent time, when there's a massive change in the
brain and huge change in the brain, and we look
at our kids and we say, oh, there's suddenly this
big change. Well, actually there's really neurobiological reasons for that.
It's not because there's anything wrong there. It's because their
brain's just working differently. And so then we want to
fix them and we want to analyze it, and then
(15:07):
we think, gosh, as a parent, I've got to do
everything I can in order to make their lives better.
But what I'd really encourage some of your parents to do,
if you're not quite sure, is if you know anyone
who has older young people, ask them, did you notice
your adolescent having issues? Or did you notice your seven
year old or nine year old having these quicks? And
I bet you they go yeah, Actually you'll find someone
who says yes, and how are they now? Actually do it?
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Really? Well?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
You know like I think we do in some ways
have to just as you're saying, not get too involved
in the moment and relax a little bit.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
That's the funniest conversations I've had on the sports field
or somewhere with other parents and you go, Chris, you
think that my daughter's going through such a rude phase
or something. And then you say, hay, by the way,
do you get a bit of attitude on X, Y
and Z. And every other parent goes, oh, yes, absolutely,
and you're like, oh, thank god, hallelujah. We're on the
same boat.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Absolutely, And instead of pathologizing it, you normalize it and
you go, actually, this is something that is And also,
by the way, now social media is so different than
when I was a kid. My parents didn't look and go,
oh look, everybody else is getting a prize, and everybody
else is getting a this, and everybody else is in
there and Caterine's not, so there must be something wrong
with it. Luckily that never happened. I didn't get any
(16:20):
prizes and my parents.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Were as normal I thought you were saying. Luckily that
wasn't a problem because I got.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
All the no, no, not at all, I got no prizes,
and luckily my parents didn't expect me to get any
prizes because nobody they knew got any prizes.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Look, we want your calls on this as well. But
if you've got any questions for Catherine, or if you've
been through that moment as appearance where your parent, where
you were wondering as my kid normal and at what
stage did you think? It's at a point where I'm
actually concerned and what did you do about it? We'd
love to hear your experiences or if you're seeking a
little bit of advice give it was a call. Eight
(16:52):
hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine nine two. It's
twenty three past five. Then everybody like California, you see them,
we're in their.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Bad where you sells.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This is the
Parents Squad. My guest is Katheryn Burkett talking about I've
been I've been dancing around the edge, trying not to
be trying to be politically correct or safe. But you
know what if you think your kid's not normal, and
at what stage do you maybe decide you need to
get some other advice on the subway one hundred eight
ten eighty. Actually, before we get into it. Katheryn Burkett,
who's our Yesterday and your science educator. You've you've been
(17:43):
working on a new book. Tell us about that before
you get in before we because you're looking for a title,
so we can throw it out to the text us
to see what the title should be.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
It's actually my first book, so not that's my first.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Books, so yes, but it is the only one.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Yes, it is the only one. Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
As I tell you what, writing a book is not
the heresier thing, especially when you talk well, I love
talking writing, Well, why don't you just I tried, but
it's not it's yeah, anyway, we won't get into that.
That's not easy.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
I'm ture everything.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
But I've just sent it to the editor, so I'm
very excited about that. It's about the adolescent brain change
and it's aimed at pearents.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
So yeah, and what's it telling people? What's what's the message?
Is Is it for kids or is it for the parents.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
It's for the parents, but some parts of it easily
the young people could read themselves because I write in
a very I'm trying to write in a very non
academicy way.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And you haven't got a title for it yet.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I haven't. I've got a bit of an idea.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, and what's the general message of the title then,
Because I'm going to because I know you, I know
a little bit more about this, but I'm going to
because I want to throw it out because something you
might get a brilliant suggestion on the text for me might.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
And if somebody does come up with a suggestion that
I use, I will send you a free edition of
the book. Even some good ideas. But I am currently
thinking about chill the beep out. But my lovely daughter
pointed out that that may cheapen the message.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
But especially for parents, it's like chill out, get over yourselves.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Yes, parents chilling out, because I think if we chilled
and just got through this just I certainly personally got
through both my kids adolescence way better by chilling out
and just not stressing, you know, don't sweet the small stuff.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
Okay, yeah, so there you go.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Any ideas of a book for parents to catch them
on the bookshelf?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Okay, you didn't send you some suggestions? And right, let's
go to some calls.
Speaker 7 (19:25):
Suzanne, Hello, oh hello, and hello Catherine. Hi, I just
missed because I was on the transfer between radio and phone.
What your book is about? I heard you talking about
chill out sort of.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
It's about dealing with teenagers. And the title they were
playing with was just chill out, just stop worrying. They'll
turn out all right in the end.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yes, yes, no, thank you. That wasn't what I was ringing.
But I just thought, oh, I've missed what the book's about.
Thank you. I just wanted to know that where you
go or how you go about getting people tested for
the neurodiversity spectrum the aspergis, autism, ADHD, et cetera, but
(20:13):
also specifically for adults, young adults who have been diagnosed
as dyslexia or told they were dyslexic when they're at
school and they've left school and now they're a young
adult and they're still having problems with reading and writing.
You know, they're getting by, but they want to improve it.
(20:33):
So can you tell me where you go to get
tested for dyslexia to get that in depth testing, what
kind of dyslexia or what's their problem in that language
reading area?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Where do you start sort of thing?
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah, yeah, and great, And obviously there's probably different avenues
and the only ones that I talk to. But doctors
are only enough the first port of call and they
will refer you on. But there's if you've already if
you know you've got an issue. Honestly, the Internet is
just massive and things like for dyslex and dyspraxia, there's
certain glasses you can try. You can honestly just get
(21:08):
some colored glass and try those and see if that
works before you spend any money on them.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
You can look at it, but still need further assistance
because obviously there's something else in the problem apart from
the glasses changing with the color leans, et cetera. So
I do entry.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Places like spelled who can help you with those sorts
of things, because you're probably not looking for a diagnosis
that you're probably looking for some support. And again if
you google support groups and stuff like that, there'll be
people around, but you really need to make sure you
go to the right places. Well that unfortunately it is yere.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I've just go I've just done a quick google now
and dyslexia in New Zealand and there is an organization
called Dyslexia Evidence based on deb dot karenin z and
it's lots of questions there, But I'm you've got to
be careful with the Internet.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Of course, yes, of course, and that's why I'm asking
an expert in the field. Whatevenues you go to? Is
there something through the education department.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Once you've left school you could look at tertiary education support.
If they are in the tertiary education system, you could
look through that space they've gone beyond.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Oh no, they're probably semi in that, but struggling I think.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I think the Catherine's expertise is not in particularly in
the area of dyslexia, so it's difficult to stay in
the right direction on that one, Suzanne. But actually that
often it is your GP when it comes to things. Obviously,
if it's a school thing, if your child is struggling
with the ALEXA at school, the schools will have the
resources and the connections to put you in touch, I
would imagine.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
But you look at ARCH so if you're in the
school system, you'd look at resource teacher and learning and behavior.
They can help you on that sort of track. But
a doctor, funnily enough, is one of your first avenues
into getting into those other people that are more expert.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
How does it happen in school with children, if they're
looking at a diagnosis from around the autism spectrum or something,
does that still go through the health side of things
or does the school.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
General You've got to go because it's got to be
a psychologist or a psychiatrist. It's actually diagnosing this sort
of DSM diagnostic statistic manual level diagnoses. So you don't
And also, by the way, can I really say, and
I work with a lot of people, I don't do
diagnoses myself. I don't personally, you know, delve into that space.
But I know a lot of people that do. And
there's a lot of stick on people who take ages
(23:23):
to do diagnoses, and personally, if your child has been
diagnosed very very quickly, with you know, quite these complex diagnoses,
I don't actually value those diagnoses. I want it to
take a long time. I want these people to understand
this young person in lots of different context, not just
look at a piece of paper with some ticks on it.
So do respect the psychologists and the psychiatrists that are
doing these diagnoses. It takes a long time, but that's
(23:46):
to the advantage of your child.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
All right, let's take some more calls. Vanessa Good afternoon.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
He's good, afternoon, thank you for taking my call. I'm
a grandma with a ten year old dyslexic and ADAHD
diagnosed grandson and a seven year old very handsy little
girl reports from the school. Sho's pun ha w kicked
the kid. She's got no friends. She'll walk past her
brother and kick them or punch them. And you ask
(24:11):
her why she goes. I don't know why. She's fine
one moment and really violent the next, and ask why,
and she just doesn't does not know what the trigger is.
She's struggled at school until she has moved to another
school and her schoolwork's improved, but she's got no friends.
So she's a very very bossy organizing little girl. Eventhing
(24:31):
black and white and there's no gray area. I don't
know where to go with this. She has got an
appointment awaiting at Marinoto and that's a star as we're
able to get for her.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
What's Maronoto? Do you know?
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Catherine's try It's like a can't.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
It's her child adolescent diagnosis, such your psychologist and psychiatrists
and there are.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Is that correct?
Speaker 6 (24:50):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yep so, and obviously it's a way bigger thing than
we can chat about here. But what I loved hearing
you say is that when she went to a new school,
things changed. So what I really want you to look
at is what's the difference, what's the positive thing? And
I'll put a lot of money on the fact that
the news school is actually making her feel safe, is
connecting with her, actually not blaming her for the negative
behavior that she's doing, and forming a relationship with her.
(25:13):
And this is the main training I do around the country,
understanding a brain that's just regulated for whatever reason. Is
the first and most important thing is to make her
feel safe. So even at home, I want us to
make her feel a bit more accepted. And notice that
when you give her lots of attention, let's lots of
whatever she likes. I'm going to say cuddles, but it
might not be. It might be playing games with her
(25:33):
or whatever. Does she had her brother less? Does she
lash out us?
Speaker 6 (25:36):
Oh no, She's going to have a whole day of
absolute bliss, been a nice, nice child. And then she'll
walk past and kick him in the head and I'll say,
why did you do that? She said, I don't know.
I says, you've heard him and She looks at him
and she goes, I don't care.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
So there is. But you've got an appointment pending.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Do you?
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Yes, we do. But I'm just wondering is that a
physical then or is that an emotional thing that she's
dealing with.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
It could be.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
So there's so much there and it's an interesting It's
definitely an interesting case and something I'd like to look at.
And I'm pretty sure this is not the case, but
I'm going to throw it out there. We do have
to be really careful about how much online stuff people
are observing and doing because it does program our brain.
And I'm not saying she is, but it's potential. And
if other people are listening in this state, is that
if our kids are watching violence online a lot, they
(26:24):
can actually engage in it without even realizing. It becomes
natural to them. So I maybe ask you to think
about that or if it's there, but I'm not saying is.
But that's one thing we do.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
To cell phones curse they are, Hey, thanks for your car, Vanessa,
thank you. A couple of texts here before we head
to another break. Absolutely have suspected both kids have quirked
since preschool age as person writes, one is being diagnosed
with ADHD and ODD oppositional definance.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
What's that oppositional? So if I tell you to do something,
you won't do it? Oh?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Okay, that does sound like most kids. That sounds like
it sounds like every kidd Sorry, not want to make
light of it, but I guess there's the point where
it becomes anyway ADHD and O d D. In other words,
do make your bed, no make me uh? And the
(27:18):
other wasn't diagnosed, but I suspect maybe aspergers as many characteristics.
My brother is self diagnosed aspergers, self diagnosed expergers, okay,
and my brother and I diagnosed my sister with Aspergers,
and I'm just weird. Oh okay, Okay. I think that's
a slightly satirical text from Luisa. I didn't really quite
get through to the end of that one. But odd.
(27:39):
Is that actually a real thing then?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Or is it it's in the diagnostic statistic manual. Yes,
you can be diagnosed with oppositional defiance disorder.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
And most kids would go through that, wouldn't they. Many
children would go through oppositional defance disorder, wouldn't they?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Catherine Again, Okay, I'm being very careful. We've never got
the time to dig into that in an appropriate way.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Can we just say, actually, can I ask why do
kids go through let's just putting aside that you know
the letters of the alphabet and when I mean oddhda, fine,
my love.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
No, I'm just saying why do they go to for difinan?
Why why do kids go through that phase of just
like can you do this for me?
Speaker 3 (28:16):
No?
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Why not?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Because as humans, our whole point is to survive, and
one of the most important things for survival is to
have a higher status, is to have control over yourself.
If you don't have control over yourself, you're in danger.
So when kids learn they have a level of control.
So it happens a lot around three and a half
four years old. It happens a lot again at that
sort of eight year old when they can and then
(28:38):
adolescent age, those stages when they're separating more they have
control over themselves. It's completely normal.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I would suspect you mentioned some numbers there. I reckon
their appearents listening going happens at twelve and thirteen, you
know it happens at fourteen and fifteen. But there is
something in that though because it comes a point where
you can't necessarily tell your kids off. You've got to
sort of say could you help me with this please,
or you've instead of hey, do this, and they eventually
(29:05):
going nah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Yeah, And I think it's from a very young age.
We've got to form this understanding with our young people
that there's a reason I'm asking you to do this,
and I'm not about big softing and going oh, there's
no consequences. Absolutely, my kids have had lots of consequences,
but those consequences are done with my kids rather than
at my kids. And they get to the point where
they do. My kids have said no to me quite
a few times, but it gets to a point where
(29:28):
I say no, actually, now it's the end of and
you're doing it, so they do know when the end is.
But it is absolutely normal for our kids to wont
to have controller.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
First text that came in after I read that one
said oh my god, odd natural, And I did mouth
that at you when I was reading that text sort
of as well. That sounded like quite quite a common thing.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
It is a diagnos It is an official diagnosis that
you can get diagnosed though, and this is and as
much as it's real. It's also why I don't like
diagnoses because and also, by the way, when you said esperges,
esperges is now not an official diagnosis, and the Diagnosics
Statistic Manual they've taken it out. It doesn't exist anymore now,
it's only an autistic spectrum disorder.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Welluse. I googled it elon Musk the other day and
at Seidi at Aspergers, and I thought to myself, that's
old school.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yes exactly, it's not. But it's not a lot. But
to see, this is why we've got to be careful
with diagnosis. They're not actually something like Down syndrome, young
people with Down syndrome. That's never changed because it's a
genetic condition. You don't get to change that. Yeah, okay,
these things are behavioral observational diagnoses.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Okay, I love that one. Odd what is it? Oppositional
defiance disorder. I'm going to roll that out against one
of my kids next time they say no to me,
saying I'm thinking you've got a case of oppositional defiance disorder.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I think you should have oppositional defiance disorder and say
no to your kids and go what's not my fault.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
I've got oppositional defiance disorder.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
There's another tool, and that's another one arrow in my
quiver and another person. Oh this is just a reflection.
This text here to be honest. I feel people today
rely on answers from social media. ADHD has blown out
of proportion. Up personally something at one hundred miles an hour.
I go, yeah, they've just hit the wrong letter.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
Because they're going at A because they're going in.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
It says, I personally ho at one hundred miles an hour,
and I realize HS next to the G on the keyboard.
So I personally go on a hundred miles a hour.
But I don't look to be diagnosed and make a
drama situation of something that's normal. It's not abnormal. Who's
to say Johnny is ADHD when he's super active, don't
punish and work with him by burning the energy. I'm
no doctor, but it seems once or Mum and Dad
finds out from a supposed diagnosis, it tells everyone what
(31:37):
It tells everyone what is due we have and the
woke card comes out. Just live life as it comes. Look,
we don't want to overplay that, but there is something
in that isn't there.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, And obviously I work with ADHD a lot, and
my question is, do you think it's improving the quality
of life for the young person by what we're doing?
Speaker 5 (31:54):
And quite often and sometimes it is by the way.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I've got young people who beg for their medication, and
they want their medication at lunchtime and every day because
it makes it easier for them, and some just beg
not to have it and they please, please don't. So
we've really got to think more widely than just you've
got ADHD, so let's medicate. We really really need to
think differently.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I've got a couple of interesting texts which we're going
to deal with straight after the break because I'm dying
to read the mat now because i love to live
in the moment. But we're going to take a moment.
It's eighteen minutes to six news talks. He'd bit me.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Gat bind we.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Know about me.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
About Welcome back to the week in Collective of Parents Squad,
I'm Tim Beverage. My guest is neuroscience educator Catherine Burkett,
and we're talking about neurodivergency and when to get your
child looked at. If you think your child's not normal,
and I'm just using sort of lay terms myself on that.
We've got a few texts on the odd thing or
(33:03):
positional defiance to sort. Look, you know, if you if
you've if you've got questions about that, that's probably not
our ballpark to be talking about that today, but I've
do have a couple of questions on the text machine
to hand to you there. Catherine One says, can neurodivergency
or diversity or I'm losing my terminology, but can the
things that you might be concerned about with your child?
(33:25):
How often is it genetic that you might notice red
flags and your kids? But perhaps you should get yourself
assessed first. Does it get passed.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
On some things?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (33:34):
Sorry, some things.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Definitely definitely In the things with the auto sus spectrum disorder,
we definitely see something in genetics. And you can see
at birth a difference in let's talk about long milination,
short malination, all those sorts of things. They can actually
see it in the brain, so it is highly likely
that that can be genetic. There's also other things that
can cause or to suspectrum disorder, so it's not only genetic.
(33:57):
Most things could be genetic and might also be environmental.
So nothing's an absolute.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Just from shooting the breeze. Point of view is that
something that's some times happens is that the child might
get diagnosed, and so mum or dad might actually think, hmm.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
It's happened so often looked at. They sit in the
office and they listen to the diagnosis and they do
that in nick minute, they go, ah, that's sort of
what I'm experiencing as well, because especially when we were younger,
and you know, like and the older version of life,
and when we were at school, these things weren't picked up.
But also we had a lot more sensory movement. We're
out doing sports, a lot more doing music, doing folk dancing,
(34:32):
all of that sort of stuff. So we weren't expected
to spend a lot of time concentrating in one space,
which is what's increased now in school. So you're actually
highlighting that stuff. So a lot of people got through
because there wasn't such an expectation, do you see, And
so then they got through and now as an adult
they're going, ah, and it does help people. It does
make a big difference and they can go, oh, okay,
(34:53):
I'm going to be a bit different. I'm going to
wear earphones around too much noise so that I can
actually go out socially those sorts of things. Please go,
you know, do that. But it does happen a lot that. Yeah,
the adults get diagnosed with the young people because there's
some neurodiversities are more likely to be genetic and some aren't.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Actually, just on the whole genetic thing. We've been going
through some photos because we want to get some photos
printed off of her family for in law sort of thing,
and it is quite It does amaze me. It never
ceases to amaze me how just mannerisms can be passed on.
(35:31):
Where there was a shot of one of my daughters
and my wife said, that's your mother right there, and
it was a little video and it was just an
expression and I saw it and it was it wasn't
It wasn't that she looked like my mum, but she
there was a mannerism that she'd picked and she hadn't
picked it up either. And then there was another moment
with the same daughter suddenly looking like a different member
of the family. But isn't it amazing how I don't
(35:53):
understand just what our kids have inherited in terms of
facial features and expressions and reactions that have nothing to
do necessarily with I don't know anything in terms of
their real look. But isn't it funny that expressions can
be passed on or reactions in the style of reacting.
(36:14):
It's amazing, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
There's so much passed down through our genet X, our
personality types and now that and when we do when
we do map, you know, with young people the fucker
papa and saying have you got someone like that?
Speaker 5 (36:24):
Like someone will come up to me and go, oh,
there's this.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Really weird behavior and I'll go think back, think back, uncle, grandfather, auntie,
what that sort of stuff, And they go, actually, they
were really like that, And I'm like, it can gep.
There's so much that we don't understand of Actually, I
think she started my masters have applied neuroscience through King's
College London.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
That sounds great.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
It's very flash and it's very taxing on the brain.
But we're getting right down to the molecular structure of
cells and proteins and all that s of stuff. And
I tell you what it is, absolutely our brain is
the most fascinating thing. So yeah, we and we don't
know enough about it to make any solid conclusions. By
the way, we're still guessing on a lot of us.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
If you're studying any course at King's College, if it
was applied neuroscience, I imagine that sounds like it's quite intense.
Just going to take a wild guess. I've got a
couple of titles for your book. Somebody has said they
you should call it. I'm fine, How do I prove it?
It's a cute idea, and parental perseverance brings peace.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Does it?
Speaker 3 (37:25):
I suppose after it once, I think you bring peace.
My son's eighteen and my daughter's twenty one, and I
have got to a level of peace now. But it's
just because Actually, even if I think I should say
something to my just don't anymore because it's done.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
I'm done.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
So I think I've got to peace now, but I
don't know that I've got to peace during the adolescent stage.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
How about Hey, mum, it's not me, it's you. That's
actually not bad. Actually I'll quite like that one.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
You'll get a book anyway. You don't have to make.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
This is a little unrelated, but we can indulge ourselves.
Why am I better? This is just a general parenting question,
but I do like this question, why am I a
better grandparent than I was as a parent? Daughter always
tells me.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
That, yeah, I watched my mother.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
My hair used to back of my neck, used to
curl with my mother talking to me, and actually just
is so kind to my kids. And in fact, actually
if you look at Eric Erickson's developmental stages, he talks
at a certain age, we just become more reflective on life,
and we sort of stopped fussing over things too much.
And that is why if we actually lived naturally and
(38:30):
we lived on the mote or in a village, the
older generation would spend a lot of time with our
toddlers and our kids, and they would have chilled out more.
As a parent, I was really like, I haven't got
the time for your tantrums. I haven't got the time
for your behavior even as an adolescent. Right as an
older person, you would be more chilled out right, And
so definitely it's because you were supposed to do the
(38:52):
main parenting modeling for our young people. The parents were
supposed to be out there earning the money and doing
the jobs.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Du see parents later. Of course, in some moment. Grandma
and granddad aren't s around for that long age.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
No, and I get that, but I'm saying if we
look at historical anthropological research, absolutely so why I say so,
what this person needs to do is spend.
Speaker 5 (39:11):
More time with you.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Do we want to become a hippie and go and
live in a commune and just say, look, you go
down and see such and such today with kids?
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Anyway, Look, we'll be back in a ticket's eight minutes
to sex news talks.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
He'd b.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Well, that wraps up the parents quite pretty much. But
if you want to check out the work of Captain Burkert,
where is that? Where do we go, Catherine? It's Engaged
Training dot co dot n Z.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
Yeah, I've got a website.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
There's a few free resources on there, a couple of articles,
so go check it out. And I'm going to be
making a few more over the next few months.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
So yes, And you've got your book coming out and
we'll see if we can come up with a title
for that in the interim. But great to see and
enjoy your evening at what who Gible? Marty Gible Marty
and it is again he's what is he?
Speaker 5 (40:03):
What was his special all my specialist.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
So because at the moment I filed him away under
like a cat's sing guy with a guitar on the
stage or something. Anyway, that would be funny if he
pulls out and said, before we start, I'm going to
play a little chern and you'd be like, well, we
predicted this anyway, Thank you so much for your company
this afternoon. Looking ahead to tomorrow, we've got I think
there's a government announcement coming out tomorrow. I'm not sure
what's happening, but we'll be having Politics Central at three o'clock.
(40:26):
But just looking a little bit further ahead, Ganish Raj
is joining us for the Health Hub. He's the guy
from eat Well for Less but also Meals just simple
ways of doing doing meals from canned food. What are
the simple ways of putting together a lovely meal for
your family? But also do you know how to read
the nutrients through the ingredients? And we're going to talk
(40:48):
about that. And for smart Money, Martin Hawes joins us
because the number of people behind their mortgages has increased
dramatically in December. We have a chat about that and
when how often should you review your key? We say
about lots of stuff. Tomorrow, Thanks to my producer, Tire Roberts,
I look for your company, same time. Roman travers up. Next,
News Talk said.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
For more from the Weekend Collective. Listen live to News
Talks It'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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