October 19, 2025 • 40 mins
Tech stocks have been leading the charge recently, and with the way AI is headed, it's unlikely it will slow down any time soon.
So if you're a KiwiSaver investor, now would be a good time to start asking yourself what your long-term strategy is, and how you're thinking about risk.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk Sedbals.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's conducy stay and talking the bar or bye.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
So yes and welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm
Tim Beverage. If you have just joined us, the will
you're late. Basically you've missed a couple of great hours,
but you can catch our podcast anytime. Uh that sounds
like me telling off the audience, which I don't mean
to do, of course. It's just a lighthearted welcome and
thrilled to have you on board. So we want your
calls for this hour of course as well on O
one hundred and eighty ten eighteen text nine to nine
(00:55):
two for this our smart money. In fact, you know what,
I'm just going to get straight in and introduce our guest,
because you will know if you've been a regular listener
to this lot, that we have regular appearances from the
folk at Harbor Asset Management and we've got a new one.
We've got a new b which makes it potentially sounds
(01:16):
like he's an ingreenur, but of course he's not, because
he's he shares the limelight. If I could put it loosely,
Worth Andrew Beskan he's the co CEO of Harbor Asset
Management and his name is Chris Wilson and he's with
me now, Chris, how you.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Going very well? Thank you to him? Very well?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Excellent. Hey, look because you knew and we've got to
know the guys over the past. Actually, I think it's
been a little while now, but we've all the audience
will be able to summon up the different names of
some of the guys have come on the show, Shane Soley,
Andrew Baskan and others. But let's get to know you
a little bit. Has co CEO does sound actually for
(01:51):
a start, quite is that rare in financial company sort
of circles or.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Look, there are a few examples in the New Zealand
market obviously shares he's have got the one of the
more famous ones with the three EO model, But no,
it does exist and it's one of those ones. And
I do get asked a lot of how's it going,
how's it going with Thandrew and how's the challenge? But
it's great. I mean he is, as you know, Tim,
you've known him over the years. He's a great person
to work with. He's an absolute bundle of energy. His
(02:16):
market knowledge is seeking to Non New Zealand, and so
you know, I'm sort of lucky every day that I
get to learn a lot. Yeah, you get to have
someone I can bounce ideas off. Being CEO is quite
a lonely job, so having someone that you can talk
to that you can bounce ideas off is incredibly powerful.
And say, look, the model works really well for us.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
It's interesting because we've had on the show and when
you're doing radio, it's a bit more. It's just different
to being live. And when I met him for the
first time at a conference a few months ago, and
I was like, this guy's is actually the life of
the party, and he gives great examples and stuff and
just as finds a way of I felt like I
knew what he was talking about just saying something, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I mean I think it's a good example. And it
goes to show sort of how intelligent he is, that
he can make those incredibly complex ideas and conversation points
understandable and just tells great stories.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
How did you get involved in, you know, obviously in money.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, investment markets. My journey in investment markets actually started
with Kebsaver. So I was fortunate enough to be one
of the big banks who became a bit of fault provider,
joined the KEB Saver part of that business and then
really grew and developed with QB Saver over a very
long time with that business. And so yeah, it's been
really interesting watching the growth of QB Savor, the growth
of that market in New Zealand. The managed funds industry
(03:30):
was to be fair probably in decline before KEYVSAVI started
and just the growth, the change, you know, the development
of the market over time has been great and it's
awesome to be able to take that next step now
as some of the things we'll talk about about the
role of private assets, the sort of globalization of the
assets that we have under management in our business. As
just a really incredible story if you'd look at the
journey we've come from from q Saver launching even to now.
(03:53):
It's just I.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Was going to say, when you say you started your
financial career, which makes you quite a young young chap really,
because it's only been it's been going less than twenty years, I.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Might need you to call my kids. They called me
old every day. Yeah, I think they're very very I mean,
there's no hush, no hush a critic than an eight
and ninteen year olds. So now they're good. They always
keep you honest and make you realize that at the
end of the day, we are you know, we do
have an important role. You know, we're looking after people's
savings and looking after their futures. But at the end
(04:24):
of the day, you need to be harded a little
bit as well.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
So actually on that point, so if you started in
key we Saber, at what point did you realize this
was the gig for you? What was it? What? Because
obviously you don't stick around a business that you love, no,
So what what what's the thing that made you stick
with it and think, gosh, I really enjoy doing what
I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah, look, it was interesting. The thing that got me
there in the first place was I I enjoyed maths.
I enjoyed numbers. I enjoyed the dynamics of the numbers
that went in behind things. What I've actually really learned
over time that we are a people business. And so
you know, as my role has changed and roles evolved
over the years, I've actually become more and more focused
on people leadership roles, helping be able to develop make
(05:05):
sure we've got the right people in the right places,
because really that's that's my day. Again, back to the kids,
They asked me what I do every day, and I
actually talk to people, you know, talk to people all day,
and it's you know, that's that's actually really really powerful.
And so again it comes from an academic background. You know,
I've obviously done done the done the study and done
the math to get into the sector. But then actually
once I was in now I realized that this really
(05:27):
is at the core of people business.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Because along the way with investments, there are always I
was actually always wondering how different financial advisors approach that.
You know, there's the exciting news of certain stocks that
go off, whether it be the tech sector or I
got to even notice that gold, which is normally apparently
gold just generally keeps pace with inflation, but at the
moment that's sort of been going off lately. But there's
(05:49):
always a market or stock that goes nuts. How do
you And this is not what we were slating to
talk about, but just in terms of getting to know
how have you approached those sort of things where you
there's the flavor of the month, there's the water cool
of talk about have you heard what's going on there?
I reckon this is going to go nuts. But as
a responsible investment advisor, you have to incorporate the hysteria
(06:09):
into maybe some of the more boring investments.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Oh, there's nothing.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Boring about a vestments.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
It's all exciting stuff. No it isn't. Yeah, you mentioned gold,
and I will use a great anecdote in my kids
school fair today and the topic of gold came up
and a view on the price and where I saw
the price of gold going next, because obviously the other
thing about working in markets is everyone asked for their
opinion and what they should do next, and always a
challenging conversation to have and one that I'm now very
(06:37):
adept at avoiding around price target expectations.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I thought from it, you're going to say you're at
the school fair or something and somebody was selling chunks
of gold.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
It's not my I mean, you would have seen in
the news last week the West coast is going off
with people going down and looking to prospect and.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
A two thousand, six hundred dollars an ounce. Yep, that's up,
and that is up. And again I know this is
not what we're slated for conversation, and we'll get into
the topics of conversation and then we'll get back.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Probably come back to gold as well, because it's actually,
you know, it's a hedge asset at the moment.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Ah, yes see, I think that funny enough in a way.
That's just summed up gold for me because we you know,
it becomes water cooler talking people, Oh, gold's a great investment,
whereas most seasons of advisors will say, well, actually, over
the course of time, it's not as if you really
want to see some spectacular stuff. Just look at the
s and p over the last you.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Know, understand, And a lot of that gold price movement
is on the expectation of people fleeing to the perceived
safe haven. So there's a lot of trading activity that
drives that price as well. So that's that perception.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
It's a hedge, it's a head, it's a hedge, so
hedge investment. So like if times get tough, at the
least you've got some gold.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
There's a war or something breaks out and there's nervous
there's a flight to safety. That flight to safety people
by gold, and so people getting ahead of that by gold.
So the price of gold goes up, so more people
by gold because they're more nervous, and so it becomes
a bit self silling. So that's how bubbles cary.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I sometimes wonder, because everyone's talking about it, it's probably too
late to buy gold, because you know, I mean, it's
usually when everyone's when it's becomes the sexy sort of thing, like,
oh my god's doing this, and well.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
There must be something else around the water cooler of
a news talks. He'd be that is the next hot thing.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I know how much financial talk we have around the
waterpowler news talks. He'd be. My producer is very financially
savvy for a young woman of twenty something. I've forgot
now old twenty four now gosh. Anyway, look, let's let's
get into the into the you know, into the knitting.
So in fact, the whole thing with markets rallying, and
(08:38):
all my mind comes up with if I think about
what's going on as with Trump, and we've seen when
the DAL went up and then it went down, and
that it's up again, and it's cecil which public ties
into the conversation we had inadvertently about gold. But you know,
how how do key we Save investors. I always think
key we saver is generally everyone wants their key we
(08:59):
save it to be pretty safe. But how much risk
can you even take with key we saber?
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Yeah, look and that that really see that level of
personal risk is a personal situation. But as you think
about it, that time of investment for q save investors,
it can be very long. The other thing to me,
with qu Savior and most of the funds and kysava,
they are relatively well diversified. And so as much as
you see say the US market coming back, actually you
do see that that's not the only asset that you
(09:24):
have exposure to. So cross diversified fun You've got things
that are going up, things are going down. You've got
a good spread of assets to really balance that right
out over time. So you're not taking you're not seeing
those full swings of the market every time something happens.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I mean, how often should people actually think about the
risk profile of their kisaver as well? Because you know,
as you say, it's the long term thing. I changed
mine recently on a whim, I'll be honest, because I
thought that what I was doing was way too safe.
I tried to change I did change it. But A
and zeros With said, we don't recommend this for you,
(09:59):
which as seme as they maybe I'm older than I
think I am, And I did it anyway, and I'm
quite glad I did. But how does a person make
a decision around risk? And how do people even understand
what risk is?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
And I think you absolutely did the right thing that
you spoke to your provider and so you actually went
you sought advice, and absolutely your personal circumstances may be
so different and the recommendation they give you may not
be quite of you, but that's the best place to start.
You know, the provider you have your keeps have with
should be able to give you advice around what you're doing,
how you think about risk, and they should be able
to explain those concepts to you. Again, it's that similar
(10:36):
story with that. If you can't understand what they're saying
to you and they're making it difficult for you understand,
that's not great from an investor perspective. You know, you
have to be able to stand what you're into, what
you think about. It's interesting as technology has got better
that ability to see the price of your QP save
a day or your balance every day has gone up.
You know, you probably have an app on your phone
(10:56):
like I do. I can check it out. Yeah, I
try not to look at it as well, but you do.
But it is important to pull back and think about, Okay,
what is that investment that you've got? You have your
sort advice reminding yourself of the conversation you had with
your advisor.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Is it obvious that if you've got if you've got
a few decades to go, you should just I mean
should Does that mean you should just go high risk
higher risk? What I mean is about understanding risk. Is
that when I say high risk, I might understand high
risk is in one way whereas another personal I think
it's terrifying, where in fact we're dealing with the same
(11:33):
risk scenario. We just don't understand what it is. Yeah,
we do perceive it differently.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Perceive it differently and act differently when events occur. And
that's probably the big challenge. And so whilst you might
have a perceived high rest tolerance when markets then fall,
what do you actually do do you know? Do you
wake up a night, do you worry about it? Do
you change your funds at that point?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Well depends how much money I've got on it. I
think that's the reason I ignored the advice about high risk,
because I don't have a fantastic balance, so I sort
of thought, well, you know, it's not like I'm risk
a million.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Yeah. Well, and it's interesting though, you know, actually, for
a lot of people this will be a big part
of their retirement savings in the future. And some of
those decisions you make in the earlier days, and you
might be a little bit older, so you might not
have quite as much time to raise your balance, but
some of those decisions in the early days do you
have a big long term impact? And so you know,
if you're in the wrong fund and not checking your
funds and not staying on top of things early, that
(12:24):
can have a long term impact, don't you.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
So the U S equity markets, so with the tech companies,
there's a reference there to a bunch of companies that
have there's been a rally with the U S equity markets,
but it's basically just a handful of companies. Yeah, So
how do people incorporate that into where they want their
money to be because if you look at those companies,
(12:47):
should all your money just be in them? Or how
much do you diversify outside of the apples and the
NVIDIAs and the whatever the other ones are.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Oh, look and you'll find that your fund manager will
most likely be making those decisions for you. There's a
few few schemes in the market where you can be
quite direct on the securities. But what we tend to
see is most people's money is managed in a diversified fashion.
But as you know, the exposure to the Magnificent seven
or the Make seven as they're referred to those big
seven companies in the States has been where all the
(13:16):
growth is coming in the US market.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
How much risk is there in those seven companies themselves?
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Yeah, well, it's interesting. It's there's either a loss or
not too much, depending on your view of how much
and how serious the AI your chee. So the question
on AI is a bubble and so have those seven
companies run way too much because of AI hype and
excitement and overexposure or actually, as AI the next product
(13:41):
productivity boom and actually they're growing into the right the
right size for the for the productivity improvements that AI
will bring into the market, and those are the companies
that will gain or the best place to gather.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
How do you how do you actually approach that when
looking at ai because and how do you work out
how much of a share price is driven by hype?
I mean, I remember the days back in the eighties
where it seemed to be it was just about all hype.
Somebody would say apparently Briley's a good stock, and it
went nuts. And but you know what I mean, there
were Darling stocks and I still have Darling stocks today.
(14:15):
How do you guys work out?
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yeah, look, it's a really good question if you are
an eighties stock market sold. There's a book called The
Ariadney Story, which is well worth a read.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Just really, I had a bad experience. I had a
good experience and then a bad experience, and yeah, I
had I had. The reason I mentioned it is I
know that is because I had a weekend job where
I stuck every thirty or fifty bucks I earned into
Briley individual shares and I did very well. I still
did it all right, but it basically lost half of
it in the space of a week. After I said
(14:47):
to my mum, I think I should sell the pretty
maxed out and she said, no, they'll be all right.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Well, I mean, and the sort of mid eighties, everyone
was an expert until about until eighty seven when they
weren't and it got very, very hard again. And you
do see markets having that period over time when people
in a bubbly market don't seek advice or don't seek
support around how they make investment decisions because actually everything's
going well and so everyone feels like they're an expert stockpicker.
(15:12):
What we do as we see a flight to advice
when things get a bit harder and markets get a
bit choppier, where those things are had as we think
about that valuation question, so back to the use of
original question around how do you think about it as well?
You know, from a company valuation suit of you know,
share is a share in the ownership and the assets
of the company. You know, one of the challenges can
be really that expectation of is the stockplas reflective of
(15:36):
all of the future activity and growth that's going to
come in and so you know, we'll have times as
a growth manager where you know, we'll like stocks, but
we don't like stocks at the price they're at and
essentially they've run up too much, and that's something we
can do as an active manager. Your we can take
positions on you know, whether we hold the stock or not.
What you find with passive funds is they'll follow the
price movement. And so that's something that you know, where
(15:57):
we try to add value as a managers by taking
those active positions, looking at those stock values and just
trying to make sure that we can add value to
people portfolios by making those stock decisions and really having
managers who can make those stock decisions on our behalf
and those US stocks house.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
As I've seen from some of the couple of the
conferences I've attended, there's quite a science to a lot
of this stuff, almost and some of the people I've
seen there's some pretty smart people involved in the Things
have come a long way, haven't they in the last
twenty thirty forty years in terms of people understanding. I'm
not sure if it means we can predict the next crash, obviously.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
But no, And I think that the challenges and it's
a great question. We could spend an hour on this question,
to be honest. And you know, what's happened over the
last twenty thirty years, and as I noticed all the
paper on your test, things have got a lot easier
to consume and so as an example, before I popped
in today, I checked in my headphones, I had a
(16:53):
chat with chat GPT on my phone. Conversation fifteen minutes
or so. Hey, coming in to talk to Tim today.
Just need to be across what's happened in the markets. Hey,
can you just give me a quick summary?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Got the summary back, So this isn't a conversation like this,
got summary back, said Hey, actually Gold's quite interesting. Can
you just tell me a bit more about what's going
on with gold?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Got a response. That's awesome. Bring it back to Australian
New Zealand. Just need a couple of insights and it's
smart things to say around Astralia New Zealand and help.
And so you know, within a fifteen minute conversation, which
is a natural conversation, I was able to garner as
much information as I probably would have spent three or
four hours trawling paper. And you think about that as
you how you value companies or how we do stuff.
(17:34):
The ability to consume and excess information has really just gone.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Through the roof.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
What's that is hard with that is that ability to
predict the next price movement. Though it's really hard because
everyone's got that information.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, so it's not that. Does it mean markets are
potentially ultimately ultimately a little bit more stable that we'd
never see something like we saw with whatever the stock
market crash was back in the early nineteen hundreds, I mean,
does it mitigate the risks of those type does it
mitigate the risks of crazy stock movements like the Trump
effect is created.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Well, we've seen some huge volatility and actually you've seen
the volatility of markets really spike up at the tail
end of last week as well. And that's you know,
those fear and sentiment type conditions still exist. And whilst
the information has got better and there's a lot of
information around, at the end of the day, we're still
human and that human behavior but drives a lot of
(18:28):
the activity and a lot of the actions that occur
in markets.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Which is so much we can talk about. But by
the way, we're going to take a moment now we're
talking with Chris Wilson. He is the co CEO of
Harbor Asset Management. You know many of the people who
have had joined us from that company. If you have
any questions for Chris, actually you want to run by them.
But We're going to dig into a little bit more
around diversification and why that's important and understanding risk around
(18:52):
your keep we say, because everyone most people have got
to keep we save it account. If you've got anything,
any questions for christ or something you want to run
by them. I'm actually I actually want to dig in
a little bit more to that, just the whole human
side of the markets, which I'm always curious to know
how they sort of how we managed that when it
comes to assessing risk and what markets are going to do.
Eight one hundred and eighty ten eighties the number text
nine to nine two. We'll be back in just a
(19:13):
moment News talks. It'd be with to beverages of the
smart money. My guest is Chris Wilson. He's the co
CEO of Harbor Resset Management. Taking your cause and call
number one Dave get eight.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Yeah, look at look at TV one and a good
thing on gold seven sixty five and ounce and McCrae's
gold mining and in producing gold is booming at the moments, and.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Are you excited about go along this gold?
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Look at the price of gold sixty five and ours.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Is that seven sixty five.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Announced? There's probably more than that than graymouth and a
tigo here, look at it, Riddon.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Well, your dog's excited in the background there, Dave, I
might just put you on hold. It certainly is the topic, djuur.
Isn't it the gold thing? Any comment on that? Of course?
Of course we have talked about it a little bit.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
No, we have talked about a little bit. Look, it
is the price is up. There's a lot of instability
in the world, you know, I think we said earlier.
Gold is seen as a safe harbor asset and so
you know, people you do see a flight to safety
when you see turmoil than political turmoil in the world,
and so that's supporting a strong goal price in New Zealand.
As a manufacturer, Dave mentioned McCrae does have exposure. There
(20:29):
are companies and there's announcement last week round further further
investment going into gold into New Zealand. And so it's
one of those things that everyone has a view on
and everyone has an exposure to or not in their portfolios.
But Launchingset we always ended up talking about.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
It because there's that company that looks like I think
there was a farmer who sold off a bunch of land,
and there's an argument going on about what radio station
on it, and I just I guess it ties into
that thing about the human element that before we went
to the break about that there's going to be a
certain enthusiasm for a stock like that, whether it be
(21:06):
speculative or not, simply because everyone's in love with gold
at the moment.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Look, and the price does drive that and so that
that demand. But you know, that's been an interesting one,
the environmental environmental impact of that change, you know, the
impact of gold mining on the central the Togo region,
the positive being the jobs and flow on effects to
local economy, the negatives being the loss of some pristine
land and a classic station. And know that it's an
(21:31):
interesting article watch certainly two sides to that story.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, I'm actually interested. I've had talk back callers who
actually go prospecting for gold, and that's becoming a little
bit of a thing. There are some people who are
heading literally heading off with their shovel and their gold pan.
I mean, if they be fair fine half an ounce
then I don't know how much how much does that
take up in terms of volume, But yeah, and it.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Was an interesting one. You know, the ability to go
out and take your pan to the river and find
some gold and make your wealth feels feels like hard work.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
To be fair, it feels like fun though. I mean
because you're out there getting some exercise and if you
find nothing, then you know, no real life.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
I mean probably a bit like fly fishing.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Possibly, yeah, maybe you better luck with the first possibly,
I would suggest. But anyway, you can text me if
you're you can text me if you are a gold panel,
whether you've had any success on that. Just for fun,
let's take some more calls Richard, Hello.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Hello, I want to talk about goals.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
I was a young lad when my father went to
prospecting and he got a lot of gold. But I
have a sneaking suspicion that that easy goals not is
all goal you know, I think, you know, the big
minds are the ones that are going to.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Get an extra goal.
Speaker 7 (22:46):
What I wanted to ask guests about was in terms
of the crisp yep, the you know, purchasing goal seems
easy enough. But what the questions I have are what
circumstances would cause goal prices to fall? And also even
(23:06):
if they don't fall, how how liquid are those assets?
In other words if you say, look, I need to
you know, take twenty percent of my goal or back
money to spend.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Oh you want to cash up?
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (23:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Oh how it does it convert?
Speaker 6 (23:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Actually I would imagine if it's at the right prices,
that's what the market's about. You want to sell where
you go?
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah, So I think you know some of those So
probably the first question what impacts the goal price? Some
of those things that have caused the goal price to
go up as the similar things that will cause the
goal price to go down again. So you know, as
you get a risk on type environment, so we say
risk on type environment. If people feel a bit more
confident they're investing in stocks and bonds, you might say
pulled back in the goal price. You know, interesting and
(23:52):
talking to him earlier, the goal price has been one
of those things that has seem to track over many,
many years and many long terms, and so that's why
it has and as a topic of conversation all the time,
has led to being a discussion point for investors for
years and years and years. You know that price movement
both up and down gets driven from differing but you know,
(24:15):
opposing type views, so you know that flight to safety.
So when you're in the opposite position to flight safety
or flight to risk, you'll see that goldbrust to come down.
As well. As far as the liquidity, it really depends
on how you're getting your exposure to gold. You know,
he says, you can get bitcoinity tfs, gold type ETFs
or market type ETFs, or you can be holding futures.
You can actually buy phys called gold nuggets and bars. Again,
(24:38):
that's always a little bit harder because you've got to
actually so.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I do know someone who has literally purchased the nuggets
or not the angers the what's yeah, and I can't
remember the reason it was, but he just wanted that
gold in his hot little hands and didn't trust the
just the I don't know, whatever the other way of
getting exacting it.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
It does.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yeah, So you know, there's the derivative exposure where you're
see atually buying a contract to get exposure to the
price movement, which is the way that the simplest way
to get it. In the exposure. Obviously, your risk is
the counterparty, so the person you've got that durative contract with,
so you know.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
There's still a risk involved in that as opposed to well,
if you've.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Got the if you've got that gold nugget in your hand,
you know, barring someone stealing it. Yeah, And it's the spanner,
the span of safety of security where you know, yes,
it's very safe that your counterparty is not going to
disappear because it's you. But and you've got a gold
nugget that might fall out of your pocket one day,
which has its own risks.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
I'm not sure you'd want to carry it around in
your pocket. I was actually think I've gone through this.
I don't know how many people have. If you had
a couple of gold bars where you'd hide them, and
I would tend to think that if you had a safe,
I wouldn't put it in the safe.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I think maybe i'd put a shelf as bookends, just
because no one's expecting a gold a gold bar at
the end of your bookshelf.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
No, no, no, indeed, I mean it's the psychology be like,
somebody finds you safe, and they might find a few
items of value, but you've hidden the real valuable stuff
just within your socks. Anyway, that's not what we're talking about.
By the way, I'm embarrassed because I got the and
Dave should be very embarrassed because he mentioned the price
(26:22):
of gold, but I said, what did I? I don't
know why I said two and a half thousand dollars,
but it's it's four It's over four thousand US announce,
isn't it? Gold?
Speaker 5 (26:30):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Or if I got that wrong price in New Zealand
live gold price I've got. I just googled something and
I've getting so many different responses for it as to
what the price of gold is right now. But anyway,
we didn't mean to talk about gold. But of course
we've got more callers. We want to talk about gold, Chris,
But we'll update that gold price just in the But
(26:52):
this is not what Chris is here for. But we're
here to talk money, okay, right, okay, Kelvin, where you
go here?
Speaker 6 (26:59):
You got to Tim and Chris? Of course gold is money.
Gold is the real thing, whereas money is only folding
stuff or digitally in somebody's machine. What I asked, what
I want to ask about a couple of easy questions
really there with gold. I still can't understand why they
(27:21):
weigh gold by the ounce. I thought it would have
been digitalized now. But anyway, how much is an ounce?
Of gold volume wise, it's sort of a level teaspoonful,
would it be your Look, Chris.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Is not an expert in gold. I can ask chet
GPT while we while we wait, So what was your
what was your question? You wanted to know how much
volume does an ounce of gold take up?
Speaker 6 (27:46):
Yes? And also I watch a bit of TV and
there's three different gold mining programs on TV, all on
the same channel, one after the other, and the mess
they leave behind, so I've always been curious about the
actual product itself.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's one point six
cube a centimeters, which I don't know what that is
in terms of it's about a third of a tea spoon.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Sugary cube.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Sugary cube. There you go. That's that's your gold for
your Calvin when you get your hands on.
Speaker 6 (28:19):
Yes, because gold itself is quite heavy, so I thought
it would have been the sugar cube. Yeah, that would
only be what not even half of a level teaspoon
would it be or whatever?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
But I think I just said it's about a third
of a tea spoon according to.
Speaker 6 (28:35):
Chat Yeah, oh yeah, third. Okay then, but with the
gold product itself, you can once you've got it it
seems to stay stable or increase in value. I've got
I've got a couple of different lots of shears, and
(28:55):
they're up and down like a bloomina.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Yeah, But you get the right advice, Calvin. And that's
the whole point is that actually stocks, let's get back
to our knitting, Chris. But if you had invested in
the right sort of stocks that are maybe even just
an S and P five hundred, I mean, how would
you be doing over the last few years compared to
the price of gold.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Yeah, it's a good, good question, and I think just
on that price of gold movement, depending on your time
frame when you look at it, you can always pick
periods where gold may have performed the socks.
Speaker 6 (29:27):
You know.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
The positive thing on socks is you know that those
companies are adding value, doing things in the doing things
in the economy, and growing over the time, whereas gold
is sto you hold a gold nugget at home, it's
not producing any cars, it's not producing anything.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
It's just generating a degree of smugness. Hey, look, gosh,
I can't everyone's loving gold right now. Isn't that just
a classic example of we could have tried talking about
gold a year ago, and we would have maybe add
a couple of texts. But that's just an example of
how human interest and enthusiasm because of the times we've got,
(30:06):
you know, we've got the conflict that's been going on
in Ukraine, We've got putin unpredictable Trump less predictable than that.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Even Oh look, I suspect the other popular asset that
you occasionally calls on as bitcoin in the same way.
And so the price is down ten percent or something
last week and down down, and so probably less callers
talking about point bitcoin today when they were last week.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I did get a text about bitcoin. Let's get back
to because I mean, what we were meant to be
talking about, in fact, we will do it after the
break is the importance of diversification, because that's the whole
It's the thing that comes out of these conversations is
we can all get a crush on gold, we can
well get a crush on our favorite stock, but ultimately
diversification is important. So we might have a chat about
(30:49):
that after the break, shall we shall we get onto
that we might finally squeeze him before we wrap it up.
It's twenty to six News talks that'd b Yes, welcome back.
We're with Chris Wilson. He's the co CEO of Harbor
Asset Management. Yes, harbor Asset very familiar name to us,
but Chris not so familiar because it's his first time
on the show. We have been diverted to talking about gold,
but I want to bring it back to something that
(31:10):
is important for people because it ties into this whole
the hysteria around various products and investments, and for key
we saver investors, how diverse I mean, what sort of
choices do they have when it comes to diversification and
how should the average person approach how diverse this key
we saver should be because there is a bit more
(31:31):
choice then you might just think about going balanced or risky.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Yeah, there is, and it's really important you understand. And
so when you talk to you savivider, look at YOUQP
saver funds, you should have clear understanding of where they are,
where you're invested into the market, how well that's spread.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Just to avoid.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Those points because you as much as we talk about gold,
there's a chance that gold falls again. And so if
you don't have a spread of exposures and into different markets,
you do have a lot of risk in your savings.
By vag, they're all saying having all your eggs in
one basket, how.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Much choice do you have on how diverse your portfolio
with keep We're going to stick with key with saber, Yeah,
but how much choice is there regarding diversification?
Speaker 4 (32:13):
A huge amount within qu savior now. So one of
the things when qysab first started referred to earlier, you
really had some diversified funds, not a lot of not
that many options around how your manager invested or how
you could get exposure to market, and that's really changed
over time. You know, you've now got the ability to
hold single stocks and portfolios hold a limited number of stocks.
(32:36):
Managers have really different approaches across the market as to
how broadly spread and how diversified they are, and so
you do have a huge number of different options around
how you invest and how your manager invests on your behalf.
But the most important thing to do is understand your
manager should be able to provide you information around where
you're invested, commentary around how those assets are performing, so
(32:56):
you can really understand what your exposure looks like.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
Do them.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I mean a lot of people are with the sort
of def not I don't say that the default key
we sab funds, but there are some very obvious ones
with and people often with their bank and things. Do
you have to step outside those sort of monster organizations
to get the diversification you want because there are a
truckload of funds around, aren't they.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
No, look all of those funds within the bank and
within the various schemes a well diverse fight. Most cubes
have managed are very well diversed. Fright, you can find
others if you step right out. That ability to choose
some stocks and have ETF exposed or have more control
over your decisions is one of the options. Or choose
(33:36):
thematic managers. But as a general rule, was the word
thematic mathematic? Yeah, so where you trick it could be cold,
it could be water, could be energy. You know, where
you're choosing indices or sectors of the market that you
think will perform better or otherwise. And so that's thematic investing,
and so you know what you're doing though a lot
(33:57):
of the time with the QYP saver is letting your
manager make those decisions for you, because again you think
about that how much time and knowledge and you spend
on your key savior and your investments versus people who
do this all day every day and sit there and
look at the markets.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Because there will be an assumption, there'd be an assumption
that I would have based on nothing more than it's
key we saver. The government will have certain rules around it. Therefore,
is it possible to have a really risky KEI we
saver that without understanding how risky it is? Because my
rule of thumb again an ignoramus and this stuff. But
(34:33):
I would assume that what might be termed to be
a fairly high risk key we saver in the scheme
of the investment generally might still have a certain level
of safety to it. How do I understand that?
Speaker 6 (34:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (34:45):
And that is correct. You know, within queue savior there
is you know, there are some controls around what exposures
and individual exposures you can have with some of the
schemes that do allow that type of setup. And that's
you know, either by having advisor involved in the conversation,
making sure you've got a level of diversification with the stocks,
(35:05):
by forcing you to hold your index funds or border
exposures plus single securities, or just making sure the managers
have got a world averse or i'd an appropriate approach
to managing the money.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Should you ever get it? I mean, should you What
sort of advice can you get on your risk attitude
towards key saver, because you know, financial advice isn't really
available to everyone in the way that people might imagine
I'm just going to get a financial advisor. But a
lot of the time you need a certain minimum budget,
minimum investment, or you simply have to pay for it.
So what advice is there respect with actually qysaver. One
(35:39):
of the fortunate things about kisaver, and actually what the
government has done is.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Really support QSAB providers to offer advice as a part
of their product for volume. And so what you'll find,
as you did Tim, you have the ability to call
your provider.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Actually I didn't actually call. No, this is just like
it was a form response. They said I wanted to
change it, and I got this thing saying we don't,
we don't recommend it.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
But give them a call and you should be able
to have that conversation. You know. It is again another
interesting topic the point of actually how easy is it
to get financial advice? News aren't and you know, one
of the big concerns in the market is that getting
financial advice is considered too expensive or you need to
have a high balance. You know, it's not necessarily true,
and there are ways of doing it. You know, having
an incredibly high level of personalized service, you probably do
(36:24):
need a higher balance to achieve. But actually, as far
as getting robust advice for your qpsaver, you should be
able to get that from your your QBSA provider.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Okay, we have to take another break. Gosh, the time
is absolutely flying past the sound. I hope you've found
it as fascinating as I have so far. It's eleven
minutes to sex News Talk SEDB. Now, look, as I
mentioned before the break, the time has flown on this out.
By the way, if you've missed any of it and
you want to go and check it out, do check
out our podcast. Just look for the Weekend Collective on
News Talk, ZEDB dot co and z or iHeartRadio and
(36:54):
my chat with Chris Wilson, who's the co CEO of
Harbor Asset Management. Now we just before we wanted to go,
and it ties into something I recently had was quite
a convincing email purporting to be about my financial Keywi Savor,
et cetera, and I worked out it as a scam.
But the scams are a big problem, aren't that at
the moment, Chris, Oh, hang on a second, I'll just
(37:15):
put your mic on.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
They really are. And so look, unfortunately, you know, one
of the challenges with our team coming on this radio show,
tim is they build up a profile, and that profiles
then being used by the scammers to try to lure
people into WhatsApp chat groups with investment advice. And so
you see these fake Facebook profiles come up. They'll build
a connection, you know, promising great stock returns or great
(37:36):
stock ideas, get people to open accounts, move them into
WhatsApp chat groups, and you know, try to lure them
into scams. And unfortunately, we've seen people lose money on those.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
I mean, I was looking, I was trying to remember
exactly how what form the reach out that I had.
I think I had a WhatsApp message which was one
and I all treat anything that's talking about money to
me as bollocks and I just generally delete it.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Yeah, very good approach, and talk about that. Think about
that that method of contact there, you know, it is
very unlikely that you know, our very own Shane Soly
is going to be talking to you on WhatsApp about
your investments.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
You had a bit of problem.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah, so we've had problems with Shane being impersonated. Look,
if you may have done a great job on this.
They've put out bulletins. You know, they've raised you know,
they've raised the profile of these We know other providers
and market are getting the same sorts of issues. You know,
we're working with them on making sure as these scams
come up that they're being taken down as soon as possible.
But for everyone that we've managed to get taken down
(38:37):
another few.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Pop up curse.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Yeah, it is, and it's it's really it's really hard.
I think, just on the people impacted, you know, I'm
sorry to hear that. Yeah, they quite often see this
as a as a challenge. But the thing to remember
is that you have the ability if you think something's
a bit dodgy, you know, go to the Harbor website,
ring the phone number of Harbor Esset Management directly talk
to us directly to check and validate these things. You know,
look at that method communication. If someone's sending your message
(39:02):
on Facebook telling you they've got great stock tips.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Yeah, Unsolicited unsolicited approaches by investment advised genuine investment people
do not happen. So for one, if you don't know them,
don't respond.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Yeah, and always and always triangulate, you know, go back
and call back, you back to the core number. Don't
don't call a number that's provided to you by a scammer.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Really interestingly, one of the things we've seen is just
a real just how brazen some of these scams are.
And that's in the sense of.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
It is it's outrageous, isn't it. And the damage that
they can do. I mean, they can absolutely destroy lives.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
So yeah, absolutely, so Look, if one thing to take
out it today, you know, just be cautious out there.
There's a lot of these scammers operating and just you know,
take your time, report them and be careful.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Excellent, Hey, make that time is flowing. Thanks so much. Hey,
good to see Chris, good to meet you. Look forward
to next time. And again if you've thanks to my
producer Tyra Tyra Ward, and if you've missed any of
the hours, do go look at our podcast. Listen to it,
should I say, and we'll catch the same time next
Weekend Sunday at six is next Have a Wonderful Evening.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk Sedbals.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's conducy stay and talking the bar or bye.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
So yes and welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm
Tim Beverage. If you have just joined us, the will
you're late. Basically you've missed a couple of great hours,
but you can catch our podcast anytime. Uh that sounds
like me telling off the audience, which I don't mean
to do, of course. It's just a lighthearted welcome and
thrilled to have you on board. So we want your
calls for this hour of course as well on O
one hundred and eighty ten eighteen text nine to nine
(00:55):
two for this our smart money. In fact, you know what,
I'm just going to get straight in and introduce our guest,
because you will know if you've been a regular listener
to this lot, that we have regular appearances from the
folk at Harbor Asset Management and we've got a new one.
We've got a new b which makes it potentially sounds
(01:16):
like he's an ingreenur, but of course he's not, because
he's he shares the limelight. If I could put it loosely,
Worth Andrew Beskan he's the co CEO of Harbor Asset
Management and his name is Chris Wilson and he's with
me now, Chris, how you.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Going very well? Thank you to him? Very well?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Excellent. Hey, look because you knew and we've got to
know the guys over the past. Actually, I think it's
been a little while now, but we've all the audience
will be able to summon up the different names of
some of the guys have come on the show, Shane Soley,
Andrew Baskan and others. But let's get to know you
a little bit. Has co CEO does sound actually for
(01:51):
a start, quite is that rare in financial company sort
of circles or.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Look, there are a few examples in the New Zealand
market obviously shares he's have got the one of the
more famous ones with the three EO model, But no,
it does exist and it's one of those ones. And
I do get asked a lot of how's it going,
how's it going with Thandrew and how's the challenge? But
it's great. I mean he is, as you know, Tim,
you've known him over the years. He's a great person
to work with. He's an absolute bundle of energy. His
(02:16):
market knowledge is seeking to Non New Zealand, and so
you know, I'm sort of lucky every day that I
get to learn a lot. Yeah, you get to have
someone I can bounce ideas off. Being CEO is quite
a lonely job, so having someone that you can talk
to that you can bounce ideas off is incredibly powerful.
And say, look, the model works really well for us.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
It's interesting because we've had on the show and when
you're doing radio, it's a bit more. It's just different
to being live. And when I met him for the
first time at a conference a few months ago, and
I was like, this guy's is actually the life of
the party, and he gives great examples and stuff and
just as finds a way of I felt like I
knew what he was talking about just saying something, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I mean I think it's a good example. And it
goes to show sort of how intelligent he is, that
he can make those incredibly complex ideas and conversation points
understandable and just tells great stories.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
How did you get involved in, you know, obviously in money.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, investment markets. My journey in investment markets actually started
with Kebsaver. So I was fortunate enough to be one
of the big banks who became a bit of fault provider,
joined the KEB Saver part of that business and then
really grew and developed with QB Saver over a very
long time with that business. And so yeah, it's been
really interesting watching the growth of QB Savor, the growth
of that market in New Zealand. The managed funds industry
(03:30):
was to be fair probably in decline before KEYVSAVI started
and just the growth, the change, you know, the development
of the market over time has been great and it's
awesome to be able to take that next step now
as some of the things we'll talk about about the
role of private assets, the sort of globalization of the
assets that we have under management in our business. As
just a really incredible story if you'd look at the
journey we've come from from q Saver launching even to now.
(03:53):
It's just I.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Was going to say, when you say you started your
financial career, which makes you quite a young young chap really,
because it's only been it's been going less than twenty years, I.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Might need you to call my kids. They called me
old every day. Yeah, I think they're very very I mean,
there's no hush, no hush a critic than an eight
and ninteen year olds. So now they're good. They always
keep you honest and make you realize that at the
end of the day, we are you know, we do
have an important role. You know, we're looking after people's
savings and looking after their futures. But at the end
(04:24):
of the day, you need to be harded a little
bit as well.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
So actually on that point, so if you started in
key we Saber, at what point did you realize this
was the gig for you? What was it? What? Because
obviously you don't stick around a business that you love, no,
So what what what's the thing that made you stick
with it and think, gosh, I really enjoy doing what
I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah, look, it was interesting. The thing that got me
there in the first place was I I enjoyed maths.
I enjoyed numbers. I enjoyed the dynamics of the numbers
that went in behind things. What I've actually really learned
over time that we are a people business. And so
you know, as my role has changed and roles evolved
over the years, I've actually become more and more focused
on people leadership roles, helping be able to develop make
(05:05):
sure we've got the right people in the right places,
because really that's that's my day. Again, back to the kids,
They asked me what I do every day, and I
actually talk to people, you know, talk to people all day,
and it's you know, that's that's actually really really powerful.
And so again it comes from an academic background. You know,
I've obviously done done the done the study and done
the math to get into the sector. But then actually
once I was in now I realized that this really
(05:27):
is at the core of people business.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Because along the way with investments, there are always I
was actually always wondering how different financial advisors approach that.
You know, there's the exciting news of certain stocks that
go off, whether it be the tech sector or I
got to even notice that gold, which is normally apparently
gold just generally keeps pace with inflation, but at the
moment that's sort of been going off lately. But there's
(05:49):
always a market or stock that goes nuts. How do
you And this is not what we were slating to
talk about, but just in terms of getting to know
how have you approached those sort of things where you
there's the flavor of the month, there's the water cool
of talk about have you heard what's going on there?
I reckon this is going to go nuts. But as
a responsible investment advisor, you have to incorporate the hysteria
(06:09):
into maybe some of the more boring investments.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Oh, there's nothing.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Boring about a vestments.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
It's all exciting stuff. No it isn't. Yeah, you mentioned gold,
and I will use a great anecdote in my kids
school fair today and the topic of gold came up
and a view on the price and where I saw
the price of gold going next, because obviously the other
thing about working in markets is everyone asked for their
opinion and what they should do next, and always a
challenging conversation to have and one that I'm now very
(06:37):
adept at avoiding around price target expectations.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I thought from it, you're going to say you're at
the school fair or something and somebody was selling chunks
of gold.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
It's not my I mean, you would have seen in
the news last week the West coast is going off
with people going down and looking to prospect and.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
A two thousand, six hundred dollars an ounce. Yep, that's up,
and that is up. And again I know this is
not what we're slated for conversation, and we'll get into
the topics of conversation and then we'll get back.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Probably come back to gold as well, because it's actually,
you know, it's a hedge asset at the moment.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Ah, yes see, I think that funny enough in a way.
That's just summed up gold for me because we you know,
it becomes water cooler talking people, Oh, gold's a great investment,
whereas most seasons of advisors will say, well, actually, over
the course of time, it's not as if you really
want to see some spectacular stuff. Just look at the
s and p over the last you.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Know, understand, And a lot of that gold price movement
is on the expectation of people fleeing to the perceived
safe haven. So there's a lot of trading activity that
drives that price as well. So that's that perception.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
It's a hedge, it's a head, it's a hedge, so
hedge investment. So like if times get tough, at the
least you've got some gold.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
There's a war or something breaks out and there's nervous
there's a flight to safety. That flight to safety people
by gold, and so people getting ahead of that by gold.
So the price of gold goes up, so more people
by gold because they're more nervous, and so it becomes
a bit self silling. So that's how bubbles cary.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I sometimes wonder, because everyone's talking about it, it's probably too
late to buy gold, because you know, I mean, it's
usually when everyone's when it's becomes the sexy sort of thing, like,
oh my god's doing this, and well.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
There must be something else around the water cooler of
a news talks. He'd be that is the next hot thing.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I know how much financial talk we have around the
waterpowler news talks. He'd be. My producer is very financially
savvy for a young woman of twenty something. I've forgot
now old twenty four now gosh. Anyway, look, let's let's
get into the into the you know, into the knitting.
So in fact, the whole thing with markets rallying, and
(08:38):
all my mind comes up with if I think about
what's going on as with Trump, and we've seen when
the DAL went up and then it went down, and
that it's up again, and it's cecil which public ties
into the conversation we had inadvertently about gold. But you know,
how how do key we Save investors. I always think
key we saver is generally everyone wants their key we
(08:59):
save it to be pretty safe. But how much risk
can you even take with key we saber?
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Yeah, look and that that really see that level of
personal risk is a personal situation. But as you think
about it, that time of investment for q save investors,
it can be very long. The other thing to me,
with qu Savior and most of the funds and kysava,
they are relatively well diversified. And so as much as
you see say the US market coming back, actually you
do see that that's not the only asset that you
(09:24):
have exposure to. So cross diversified fun You've got things
that are going up, things are going down. You've got
a good spread of assets to really balance that right
out over time. So you're not taking you're not seeing
those full swings of the market every time something happens.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I mean, how often should people actually think about the
risk profile of their kisaver as well? Because you know,
as you say, it's the long term thing. I changed
mine recently on a whim, I'll be honest, because I
thought that what I was doing was way too safe.
I tried to change I did change it. But A
and zeros With said, we don't recommend this for you,
(09:59):
which as seme as they maybe I'm older than I
think I am, And I did it anyway, and I'm
quite glad I did. But how does a person make
a decision around risk? And how do people even understand
what risk is?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
And I think you absolutely did the right thing that
you spoke to your provider and so you actually went
you sought advice, and absolutely your personal circumstances may be
so different and the recommendation they give you may not
be quite of you, but that's the best place to start.
You know, the provider you have your keeps have with
should be able to give you advice around what you're doing,
how you think about risk, and they should be able
to explain those concepts to you. Again, it's that similar
(10:36):
story with that. If you can't understand what they're saying
to you and they're making it difficult for you understand,
that's not great from an investor perspective. You know, you
have to be able to stand what you're into, what
you think about. It's interesting as technology has got better
that ability to see the price of your QP save
a day or your balance every day has gone up.
You know, you probably have an app on your phone
(10:56):
like I do. I can check it out. Yeah, I
try not to look at it as well, but you do.
But it is important to pull back and think about, Okay,
what is that investment that you've got? You have your
sort advice reminding yourself of the conversation you had with
your advisor.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Is it obvious that if you've got if you've got
a few decades to go, you should just I mean
should Does that mean you should just go high risk
higher risk? What I mean is about understanding risk. Is
that when I say high risk, I might understand high
risk is in one way whereas another personal I think
it's terrifying, where in fact we're dealing with the same
(11:33):
risk scenario. We just don't understand what it is. Yeah,
we do perceive it differently.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Perceive it differently and act differently when events occur. And
that's probably the big challenge. And so whilst you might
have a perceived high rest tolerance when markets then fall,
what do you actually do do you know? Do you
wake up a night, do you worry about it? Do
you change your funds at that point?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Well depends how much money I've got on it. I
think that's the reason I ignored the advice about high risk,
because I don't have a fantastic balance, so I sort
of thought, well, you know, it's not like I'm risk
a million.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Yeah. Well, and it's interesting though, you know, actually, for
a lot of people this will be a big part
of their retirement savings in the future. And some of
those decisions you make in the earlier days, and you
might be a little bit older, so you might not
have quite as much time to raise your balance, but
some of those decisions in the early days do you
have a big long term impact? And so you know,
if you're in the wrong fund and not checking your
funds and not staying on top of things early, that
(12:24):
can have a long term impact, don't you.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
So the U S equity markets, so with the tech companies,
there's a reference there to a bunch of companies that
have there's been a rally with the U S equity markets,
but it's basically just a handful of companies. Yeah, So
how do people incorporate that into where they want their
money to be because if you look at those companies,
(12:47):
should all your money just be in them? Or how
much do you diversify outside of the apples and the
NVIDIAs and the whatever the other ones are.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Oh, look and you'll find that your fund manager will
most likely be making those decisions for you. There's a
few few schemes in the market where you can be
quite direct on the securities. But what we tend to
see is most people's money is managed in a diversified fashion.
But as you know, the exposure to the Magnificent seven
or the Make seven as they're referred to those big
seven companies in the States has been where all the
(13:16):
growth is coming in the US market.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
How much risk is there in those seven companies themselves?
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Yeah, well, it's interesting. It's there's either a loss or
not too much, depending on your view of how much
and how serious the AI your chee. So the question
on AI is a bubble and so have those seven
companies run way too much because of AI hype and
excitement and overexposure or actually, as AI the next product
(13:41):
productivity boom and actually they're growing into the right the
right size for the for the productivity improvements that AI
will bring into the market, and those are the companies
that will gain or the best place to gather.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
How do you how do you actually approach that when
looking at ai because and how do you work out
how much of a share price is driven by hype?
I mean, I remember the days back in the eighties
where it seemed to be it was just about all hype.
Somebody would say apparently Briley's a good stock, and it
went nuts. And but you know what I mean, there
were Darling stocks and I still have Darling stocks today.
(14:15):
How do you guys work out?
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yeah, look, it's a really good question if you are
an eighties stock market sold. There's a book called The
Ariadney Story, which is well worth a read.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Just really, I had a bad experience. I had a
good experience and then a bad experience, and yeah, I
had I had. The reason I mentioned it is I
know that is because I had a weekend job where
I stuck every thirty or fifty bucks I earned into
Briley individual shares and I did very well. I still
did it all right, but it basically lost half of
it in the space of a week. After I said
(14:47):
to my mum, I think I should sell the pretty
maxed out and she said, no, they'll be all right.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Well, I mean, and the sort of mid eighties, everyone
was an expert until about until eighty seven when they
weren't and it got very, very hard again. And you
do see markets having that period over time when people
in a bubbly market don't seek advice or don't seek
support around how they make investment decisions because actually everything's
going well and so everyone feels like they're an expert stockpicker.
(15:12):
What we do as we see a flight to advice
when things get a bit harder and markets get a
bit choppier, where those things are had as we think
about that valuation question, so back to the use of
original question around how do you think about it as well?
You know, from a company valuation suit of you know,
share is a share in the ownership and the assets
of the company. You know, one of the challenges can
be really that expectation of is the stockplas reflective of
(15:36):
all of the future activity and growth that's going to
come in and so you know, we'll have times as
a growth manager where you know, we'll like stocks, but
we don't like stocks at the price they're at and
essentially they've run up too much, and that's something we
can do as an active manager. Your we can take
positions on you know, whether we hold the stock or not.
What you find with passive funds is they'll follow the
price movement. And so that's something that you know, where
(15:57):
we try to add value as a managers by taking
those active positions, looking at those stock values and just
trying to make sure that we can add value to
people portfolios by making those stock decisions and really having
managers who can make those stock decisions on our behalf
and those US stocks house.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
As I've seen from some of the couple of the
conferences I've attended, there's quite a science to a lot
of this stuff, almost and some of the people I've
seen there's some pretty smart people involved in the Things
have come a long way, haven't they in the last
twenty thirty forty years in terms of people understanding. I'm
not sure if it means we can predict the next crash, obviously.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
But no, And I think that the challenges and it's
a great question. We could spend an hour on this question,
to be honest. And you know, what's happened over the
last twenty thirty years, and as I noticed all the
paper on your test, things have got a lot easier
to consume and so as an example, before I popped
in today, I checked in my headphones, I had a
(16:53):
chat with chat GPT on my phone. Conversation fifteen minutes
or so. Hey, coming in to talk to Tim today.
Just need to be across what's happened in the markets. Hey,
can you just give me a quick summary?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Got the summary back, So this isn't a conversation like this,
got summary back, said Hey, actually Gold's quite interesting. Can
you just tell me a bit more about what's going
on with gold?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Got a response. That's awesome. Bring it back to Australian
New Zealand. Just need a couple of insights and it's
smart things to say around Astralia New Zealand and help.
And so you know, within a fifteen minute conversation, which
is a natural conversation, I was able to garner as
much information as I probably would have spent three or
four hours trawling paper. And you think about that as
you how you value companies or how we do stuff.
(17:34):
The ability to consume and excess information has really just gone.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Through the roof.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
What's that is hard with that is that ability to
predict the next price movement. Though it's really hard because
everyone's got that information.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, so it's not that. Does it mean markets are
potentially ultimately ultimately a little bit more stable that we'd
never see something like we saw with whatever the stock
market crash was back in the early nineteen hundreds, I mean,
does it mitigate the risks of those type does it
mitigate the risks of crazy stock movements like the Trump
effect is created.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Well, we've seen some huge volatility and actually you've seen
the volatility of markets really spike up at the tail
end of last week as well. And that's you know,
those fear and sentiment type conditions still exist. And whilst
the information has got better and there's a lot of
information around, at the end of the day, we're still
human and that human behavior but drives a lot of
(18:28):
the activity and a lot of the actions that occur
in markets.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Which is so much we can talk about. But by
the way, we're going to take a moment now we're
talking with Chris Wilson. He is the co CEO of
Harbor Asset Management. You know many of the people who
have had joined us from that company. If you have
any questions for Chris, actually you want to run by them.
But We're going to dig into a little bit more
around diversification and why that's important and understanding risk around
(18:52):
your keep we say, because everyone most people have got
to keep we save it account. If you've got anything,
any questions for christ or something you want to run
by them. I'm actually I actually want to dig in
a little bit more to that, just the whole human
side of the markets, which I'm always curious to know
how they sort of how we managed that when it
comes to assessing risk and what markets are going to do.
Eight one hundred and eighty ten eighties the number text
nine to nine two. We'll be back in just a
(19:13):
moment News talks. It'd be with to beverages of the
smart money. My guest is Chris Wilson. He's the co
CEO of Harbor Resset Management. Taking your cause and call
number one Dave get eight.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Yeah, look at look at TV one and a good
thing on gold seven sixty five and ounce and McCrae's
gold mining and in producing gold is booming at the moments, and.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Are you excited about go along this gold?
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Look at the price of gold sixty five and ours.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Is that seven sixty five.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Announced? There's probably more than that than graymouth and a
tigo here, look at it, Riddon.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Well, your dog's excited in the background there, Dave, I
might just put you on hold. It certainly is the topic, djuur.
Isn't it the gold thing? Any comment on that? Of course?
Of course we have talked about it a little bit.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
No, we have talked about a little bit. Look, it
is the price is up. There's a lot of instability
in the world, you know, I think we said earlier.
Gold is seen as a safe harbor asset and so
you know, people you do see a flight to safety
when you see turmoil than political turmoil in the world,
and so that's supporting a strong goal price in New Zealand.
As a manufacturer, Dave mentioned McCrae does have exposure. There
(20:29):
are companies and there's announcement last week round further further
investment going into gold into New Zealand. And so it's
one of those things that everyone has a view on
and everyone has an exposure to or not in their portfolios.
But Launchingset we always ended up talking about.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
It because there's that company that looks like I think
there was a farmer who sold off a bunch of land,
and there's an argument going on about what radio station
on it, and I just I guess it ties into
that thing about the human element that before we went
to the break about that there's going to be a
certain enthusiasm for a stock like that, whether it be
(21:06):
speculative or not, simply because everyone's in love with gold
at the moment.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Look, and the price does drive that and so that
that demand. But you know, that's been an interesting one,
the environmental environmental impact of that change, you know, the
impact of gold mining on the central the Togo region,
the positive being the jobs and flow on effects to
local economy, the negatives being the loss of some pristine
land and a classic station. And know that it's an
(21:31):
interesting article watch certainly two sides to that story.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, I'm actually interested. I've had talk back callers who
actually go prospecting for gold, and that's becoming a little
bit of a thing. There are some people who are
heading literally heading off with their shovel and their gold pan.
I mean, if they be fair fine half an ounce
then I don't know how much how much does that
take up in terms of volume, But yeah, and it.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Was an interesting one. You know, the ability to go
out and take your pan to the river and find
some gold and make your wealth feels feels like hard work.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
To be fair, it feels like fun though. I mean
because you're out there getting some exercise and if you
find nothing, then you know, no real life.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
I mean probably a bit like fly fishing.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Possibly, yeah, maybe you better luck with the first possibly,
I would suggest. But anyway, you can text me if
you're you can text me if you are a gold panel,
whether you've had any success on that. Just for fun,
let's take some more calls Richard, Hello.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Hello, I want to talk about goals.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
I was a young lad when my father went to
prospecting and he got a lot of gold. But I
have a sneaking suspicion that that easy goals not is
all goal you know, I think, you know, the big
minds are the ones that are going to.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Get an extra goal.
Speaker 7 (22:46):
What I wanted to ask guests about was in terms
of the crisp yep, the you know, purchasing goal seems
easy enough. But what the questions I have are what
circumstances would cause goal prices to fall? And also even
(23:06):
if they don't fall, how how liquid are those assets?
In other words if you say, look, I need to
you know, take twenty percent of my goal or back
money to spend.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Oh you want to cash up?
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (23:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Oh how it does it convert?
Speaker 6 (23:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Actually I would imagine if it's at the right prices,
that's what the market's about. You want to sell where
you go?
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah, So I think you know some of those So
probably the first question what impacts the goal price? Some
of those things that have caused the goal price to
go up as the similar things that will cause the
goal price to go down again. So you know, as
you get a risk on type environment, so we say
risk on type environment. If people feel a bit more
confident they're investing in stocks and bonds, you might say
pulled back in the goal price. You know, interesting and
(23:52):
talking to him earlier, the goal price has been one
of those things that has seem to track over many,
many years and many long terms, and so that's why
it has and as a topic of conversation all the time,
has led to being a discussion point for investors for
years and years and years. You know that price movement
both up and down gets driven from differing but you know,
(24:15):
opposing type views, so you know that flight to safety.
So when you're in the opposite position to flight safety
or flight to risk, you'll see that goldbrust to come down.
As well. As far as the liquidity, it really depends
on how you're getting your exposure to gold. You know,
he says, you can get bitcoinity tfs, gold type ETFs
or market type ETFs, or you can be holding futures.
You can actually buy phys called gold nuggets and bars. Again,
(24:38):
that's always a little bit harder because you've got to
actually so.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I do know someone who has literally purchased the nuggets
or not the angers the what's yeah, and I can't
remember the reason it was, but he just wanted that
gold in his hot little hands and didn't trust the
just the I don't know, whatever the other way of
getting exacting it.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
It does.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yeah, So you know, there's the derivative exposure where you're
see atually buying a contract to get exposure to the
price movement, which is the way that the simplest way
to get it. In the exposure. Obviously, your risk is
the counterparty, so the person you've got that durative contract with,
so you know.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
There's still a risk involved in that as opposed to well,
if you've.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Got the if you've got that gold nugget in your hand,
you know, barring someone stealing it. Yeah, And it's the spanner,
the span of safety of security where you know, yes,
it's very safe that your counterparty is not going to
disappear because it's you. But and you've got a gold
nugget that might fall out of your pocket one day,
which has its own risks.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
I'm not sure you'd want to carry it around in
your pocket. I was actually think I've gone through this.
I don't know how many people have. If you had
a couple of gold bars where you'd hide them, and
I would tend to think that if you had a safe,
I wouldn't put it in the safe.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I think maybe i'd put a shelf as bookends, just
because no one's expecting a gold a gold bar at
the end of your bookshelf.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
No, no, no, indeed, I mean it's the psychology be like,
somebody finds you safe, and they might find a few
items of value, but you've hidden the real valuable stuff
just within your socks. Anyway, that's not what we're talking about.
By the way, I'm embarrassed because I got the and
Dave should be very embarrassed because he mentioned the price
(26:22):
of gold, but I said, what did I? I don't
know why I said two and a half thousand dollars,
but it's it's four It's over four thousand US announce,
isn't it? Gold?
Speaker 5 (26:30):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Or if I got that wrong price in New Zealand
live gold price I've got. I just googled something and
I've getting so many different responses for it as to
what the price of gold is right now. But anyway,
we didn't mean to talk about gold. But of course
we've got more callers. We want to talk about gold, Chris,
But we'll update that gold price just in the But
(26:52):
this is not what Chris is here for. But we're
here to talk money, okay, right, okay, Kelvin, where you
go here?
Speaker 6 (26:59):
You got to Tim and Chris? Of course gold is money.
Gold is the real thing, whereas money is only folding
stuff or digitally in somebody's machine. What I asked, what
I want to ask about a couple of easy questions
really there with gold. I still can't understand why they
(27:21):
weigh gold by the ounce. I thought it would have
been digitalized now. But anyway, how much is an ounce?
Of gold volume wise, it's sort of a level teaspoonful,
would it be your Look, Chris.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Is not an expert in gold. I can ask chet
GPT while we while we wait, So what was your
what was your question? You wanted to know how much
volume does an ounce of gold take up?
Speaker 6 (27:46):
Yes? And also I watch a bit of TV and
there's three different gold mining programs on TV, all on
the same channel, one after the other, and the mess
they leave behind, so I've always been curious about the
actual product itself.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's one point six
cube a centimeters, which I don't know what that is
in terms of it's about a third of a tea spoon.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Sugary cube.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Sugary cube. There you go. That's that's your gold for
your Calvin when you get your hands on.
Speaker 6 (28:19):
Yes, because gold itself is quite heavy, so I thought
it would have been the sugar cube. Yeah, that would
only be what not even half of a level teaspoon
would it be or whatever?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
But I think I just said it's about a third
of a tea spoon according to.
Speaker 6 (28:35):
Chat Yeah, oh yeah, third. Okay then, but with the
gold product itself, you can once you've got it it
seems to stay stable or increase in value. I've got
I've got a couple of different lots of shears, and
(28:55):
they're up and down like a bloomina.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Yeah, But you get the right advice, Calvin. And that's
the whole point is that actually stocks, let's get back
to our knitting, Chris. But if you had invested in
the right sort of stocks that are maybe even just
an S and P five hundred, I mean, how would
you be doing over the last few years compared to
the price of gold.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Yeah, it's a good, good question, and I think just
on that price of gold movement, depending on your time
frame when you look at it, you can always pick
periods where gold may have performed the socks.
Speaker 6 (29:27):
You know.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
The positive thing on socks is you know that those
companies are adding value, doing things in the doing things
in the economy, and growing over the time, whereas gold
is sto you hold a gold nugget at home, it's
not producing any cars, it's not producing anything.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
It's just generating a degree of smugness. Hey, look, gosh,
I can't everyone's loving gold right now. Isn't that just
a classic example of we could have tried talking about
gold a year ago, and we would have maybe add
a couple of texts. But that's just an example of
how human interest and enthusiasm because of the times we've got,
(30:06):
you know, we've got the conflict that's been going on
in Ukraine, We've got putin unpredictable Trump less predictable than that.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Even Oh look, I suspect the other popular asset that
you occasionally calls on as bitcoin in the same way.
And so the price is down ten percent or something
last week and down down, and so probably less callers
talking about point bitcoin today when they were last week.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I did get a text about bitcoin. Let's get back
to because I mean, what we were meant to be
talking about, in fact, we will do it after the
break is the importance of diversification, because that's the whole
It's the thing that comes out of these conversations is
we can all get a crush on gold, we can
well get a crush on our favorite stock, but ultimately
diversification is important. So we might have a chat about
(30:49):
that after the break, shall we shall we get onto
that we might finally squeeze him before we wrap it up.
It's twenty to six News talks that'd b Yes, welcome back.
We're with Chris Wilson. He's the co CEO of Harbor
Asset Management. Yes, harbor Asset very familiar name to us,
but Chris not so familiar because it's his first time
on the show. We have been diverted to talking about gold,
but I want to bring it back to something that
(31:10):
is important for people because it ties into this whole
the hysteria around various products and investments, and for key
we saver investors, how diverse I mean, what sort of
choices do they have when it comes to diversification and
how should the average person approach how diverse this key
we saver should be because there is a bit more
(31:31):
choice then you might just think about going balanced or risky.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Yeah, there is, and it's really important you understand. And
so when you talk to you savivider, look at YOUQP
saver funds, you should have clear understanding of where they are,
where you're invested into the market, how well that's spread.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Just to avoid.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Those points because you as much as we talk about gold,
there's a chance that gold falls again. And so if
you don't have a spread of exposures and into different markets,
you do have a lot of risk in your savings.
By vag, they're all saying having all your eggs in
one basket, how.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Much choice do you have on how diverse your portfolio
with keep We're going to stick with key with saber, Yeah,
but how much choice is there regarding diversification?
Speaker 4 (32:13):
A huge amount within qu savior now. So one of
the things when qysab first started referred to earlier, you
really had some diversified funds, not a lot of not
that many options around how your manager invested or how
you could get exposure to market, and that's really changed
over time. You know, you've now got the ability to
hold single stocks and portfolios hold a limited number of stocks.
(32:36):
Managers have really different approaches across the market as to
how broadly spread and how diversified they are, and so
you do have a huge number of different options around
how you invest and how your manager invests on your behalf.
But the most important thing to do is understand your
manager should be able to provide you information around where
you're invested, commentary around how those assets are performing, so
(32:56):
you can really understand what your exposure looks like.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
Do them.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I mean a lot of people are with the sort
of def not I don't say that the default key
we sab funds, but there are some very obvious ones
with and people often with their bank and things. Do
you have to step outside those sort of monster organizations
to get the diversification you want because there are a
truckload of funds around, aren't they.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
No, look all of those funds within the bank and
within the various schemes a well diverse fight. Most cubes
have managed are very well diversed. Fright, you can find
others if you step right out. That ability to choose
some stocks and have ETF exposed or have more control
over your decisions is one of the options. Or choose
(33:36):
thematic managers. But as a general rule, was the word
thematic mathematic? Yeah, so where you trick it could be cold,
it could be water, could be energy. You know, where
you're choosing indices or sectors of the market that you
think will perform better or otherwise. And so that's thematic investing,
and so you know what you're doing though a lot
(33:57):
of the time with the QYP saver is letting your
manager make those decisions for you, because again you think
about that how much time and knowledge and you spend
on your key savior and your investments versus people who
do this all day every day and sit there and
look at the markets.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Because there will be an assumption, there'd be an assumption
that I would have based on nothing more than it's
key we saver. The government will have certain rules around it. Therefore,
is it possible to have a really risky KEI we
saver that without understanding how risky it is? Because my
rule of thumb again an ignoramus and this stuff. But
(34:33):
I would assume that what might be termed to be
a fairly high risk key we saver in the scheme
of the investment generally might still have a certain level
of safety to it. How do I understand that?
Speaker 6 (34:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (34:45):
And that is correct. You know, within queue savior there
is you know, there are some controls around what exposures
and individual exposures you can have with some of the
schemes that do allow that type of setup. And that's
you know, either by having advisor involved in the conversation,
making sure you've got a level of diversification with the stocks,
(35:05):
by forcing you to hold your index funds or border
exposures plus single securities, or just making sure the managers
have got a world averse or i'd an appropriate approach
to managing the money.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Should you ever get it? I mean, should you What
sort of advice can you get on your risk attitude
towards key saver, because you know, financial advice isn't really
available to everyone in the way that people might imagine
I'm just going to get a financial advisor. But a
lot of the time you need a certain minimum budget,
minimum investment, or you simply have to pay for it.
So what advice is there respect with actually qysaver. One
(35:39):
of the fortunate things about kisaver, and actually what the
government has done is.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Really support QSAB providers to offer advice as a part
of their product for volume. And so what you'll find,
as you did Tim, you have the ability to call
your provider.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Actually I didn't actually call. No, this is just like
it was a form response. They said I wanted to
change it, and I got this thing saying we don't,
we don't recommend it.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
But give them a call and you should be able
to have that conversation. You know. It is again another
interesting topic the point of actually how easy is it
to get financial advice? News aren't and you know, one
of the big concerns in the market is that getting
financial advice is considered too expensive or you need to
have a high balance. You know, it's not necessarily true,
and there are ways of doing it. You know, having
an incredibly high level of personalized service, you probably do
(36:24):
need a higher balance to achieve. But actually, as far
as getting robust advice for your qpsaver, you should be
able to get that from your your QBSA provider.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Okay, we have to take another break. Gosh, the time
is absolutely flying past the sound. I hope you've found
it as fascinating as I have so far. It's eleven
minutes to sex News Talk SEDB. Now, look, as I
mentioned before the break, the time has flown on this out.
By the way, if you've missed any of it and
you want to go and check it out, do check
out our podcast. Just look for the Weekend Collective on
News Talk, ZEDB dot co and z or iHeartRadio and
(36:54):
my chat with Chris Wilson, who's the co CEO of
Harbor Asset Management. Now we just before we wanted to go,
and it ties into something I recently had was quite
a convincing email purporting to be about my financial Keywi Savor,
et cetera, and I worked out it as a scam.
But the scams are a big problem, aren't that at
the moment, Chris, Oh, hang on a second, I'll just
(37:15):
put your mic on.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
They really are. And so look, unfortunately, you know, one
of the challenges with our team coming on this radio show,
tim is they build up a profile, and that profiles
then being used by the scammers to try to lure
people into WhatsApp chat groups with investment advice. And so
you see these fake Facebook profiles come up. They'll build
a connection, you know, promising great stock returns or great
(37:36):
stock ideas, get people to open accounts, move them into
WhatsApp chat groups, and you know, try to lure them
into scams. And unfortunately, we've seen people lose money on those.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
I mean, I was looking, I was trying to remember
exactly how what form the reach out that I had.
I think I had a WhatsApp message which was one
and I all treat anything that's talking about money to
me as bollocks and I just generally delete it.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Yeah, very good approach, and talk about that. Think about
that that method of contact there, you know, it is
very unlikely that you know, our very own Shane Soly
is going to be talking to you on WhatsApp about
your investments.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
You had a bit of problem.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah, so we've had problems with Shane being impersonated. Look,
if you may have done a great job on this.
They've put out bulletins. You know, they've raised you know,
they've raised the profile of these We know other providers
and market are getting the same sorts of issues. You know,
we're working with them on making sure as these scams
come up that they're being taken down as soon as possible.
But for everyone that we've managed to get taken down
(38:37):
another few.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Pop up curse.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Yeah, it is, and it's it's really it's really hard.
I think, just on the people impacted, you know, I'm
sorry to hear that. Yeah, they quite often see this
as a as a challenge. But the thing to remember
is that you have the ability if you think something's
a bit dodgy, you know, go to the Harbor website,
ring the phone number of Harbor Esset Management directly talk
to us directly to check and validate these things. You know,
look at that method communication. If someone's sending your message
(39:02):
on Facebook telling you they've got great stock tips.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Yeah, Unsolicited unsolicited approaches by investment advised genuine investment people
do not happen. So for one, if you don't know them,
don't respond.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Yeah, and always and always triangulate, you know, go back
and call back, you back to the core number. Don't
don't call a number that's provided to you by a scammer.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Really interestingly, one of the things we've seen is just
a real just how brazen some of these scams are.
And that's in the sense of.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
It is it's outrageous, isn't it. And the damage that
they can do. I mean, they can absolutely destroy lives.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
So yeah, absolutely, so Look, if one thing to take
out it today, you know, just be cautious out there.
There's a lot of these scammers operating and just you know,
take your time, report them and be careful.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Excellent, Hey, make that time is flowing. Thanks so much. Hey,
good to see Chris, good to meet you. Look forward
to next time. And again if you've thanks to my
producer Tyra Tyra Ward, and if you've missed any of
the hours, do go look at our podcast. Listen to it,
should I say, and we'll catch the same time next
Weekend Sunday at six is next Have a Wonderful Evening.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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