May 3, 2025 • 36 mins
All teenagers have their moments - but what are the signs there's something seriously wrong? And how much of the teenage angst can be blamed on parents expecting to have a horrible teen?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Ed B.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Send this side, no.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
One so living this me trying to get away from me?
Still start singing any love?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes, welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage.
By the way, if you miss any of the previous hours,
you can go and check out our podcast. Look for
the Weekend Collective on News Talk, said b h, this
is the parents Squad and joining us all and introduce
him straight away actually, rather than tease the topic first
or just says he is a principal psychologist at Umbrella
well B and his name is Dougal Sutherland and he's
with me now. Good day, Google, How are you going?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Made something very well? How are you good?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Good? Good? Now we are going to be talking and
we'd love your calls on this. Eight hundred eighty ten
eighty is when was the moment that you decided that
your teenager's moodiness or that you know, the fact that
they didn't seem to be very happy or maybe they're
going through teenage angst. When was it that you realized
that maybe it was something more than that, or if
(01:27):
you have any questions, just as a parent of a
teenager about understanding their moods, then give us a call
on eight hundred eighty t and eighty. But yes, what
was it that that triggered you to think, Gosh, I
need to actually talk to someone else about this because
I'm now worried. Because let's face at Google, we are
worried about our kids all the time anyway, full stuff,
don't we. It's basically, they're born and you worry, and
(01:47):
then they leave home and they worry, and then eventually
I don't know. I actually I was thinking that and
I thought I don't say that to him.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, no, I think it is. I think
it's part and parcel of being a of being a parent.
Do you do remember Tim Do you remember the Harry
Infield show, the comedy show.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Vaguely I know the name.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So there's a great clip on there about becoming a
teenager at the stroke of midnight, the twelve year old
becomes a thirteen year old, and I encourage people to
check it out on you team YouTube. It's it's hilarious,
just all of a sudden like, oh oh, it's life
so hard. Life sucks. You hate me? I'm your parents
(02:30):
and they've gone from being this genteel, lovely twelve year
olds where life is wonderful all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think I'm pretty convinced that I was always lovely
as a kid. I'm not sure if I went through
the teenage and sure you were, of course you were.
I mean I do remember. Actually, I'm trying to think
if I ever did go through a moody phase, what
triggered it? And it was probably some form of heartbreak
or unrequired love?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Look, I think you're I think you're
onder something there. I think it's the it's the phase
and the ups and downs. I think that's the normal
kind of teen stuff. I think when it's like becomes
all the time with everyone, that's when it's like, oh,
that might be a few warning signs. But you know,
we don't know what goes on in our teens brains.
(03:15):
Do teens don't know what's going on in their own brains?
Do they know what triggers them?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
What have we got you here for? That's what I
was hoping to find out. You know, we got we
got the guy We're on zoom by the way, and
in the background, he's Doogle's got his got his very
flash umbrella as a as a sign from umbrella well being.
It is umbrella well being. Didn't I got it right?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yes? Do we? But do we know?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
As my leading look, look we do we?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
You know teenagehood as that time when a young person
is moving away from their family and their parents being
the most important thing to other people, their age being
the most important thing. And it's a natural part of
being an adolescent to kind of reject lots of things
that your parents and family do. That's part of an
(04:11):
individual teenager individuating, becoming their own person, figuring out what
they like and what they don't like, and they start
seeing parents as something they don't want to be like anymore.
And so when their parents tell them something, it's often ooh, yeah,
well that's done. That's what parents say, and it's not
what their friends say. So there's often that reaction, that
(04:32):
negative reaction towards parents. I think the other important thing
to say too, is that teenage years adolescent years are
you are developing self control over emotions. So that and
you've got puberty going on, You've got your first love,
you've got your first heartbreak, you've got exams and friends
going on, and it's a bit of a It's somebody
said to me once, it's like being on shortened street
(04:53):
all the time. There's always dramas and every aspect of
your life, and it's like, yeah, there is, and that's
difficult to navigate. So we should cut our teens some
slack that they're they're navigating life. It's quite hard sometimes,
but they know. We get rubbed up the wrong way
pretty easily by a defiant, oppositional, rude, snotty adolescent. You're
(05:15):
just trying to do your best for and they throw
it back in your face.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
There's another thing that I'm reminded of a friend of
mine who actually I got to know because he is
my builder as well. But he said to me, you know,
you know the cliches around teenage moody, moodiness and all
that sort of sullenness. And he actually said to me
something which gave me a bit of optimism. He said, look,
(05:40):
he said, all that stuff that you know, people overplay
it that are about teenagers. You know, my kids at
this and there's such a pain and all this sort
of thing. And he said, you know what, my daughters
have been nothing but a pleasure. And he said the
day that they leave home is going to be the
worst day of our lives because we've you know, they've
had their moments of they've had their moments. But he
(06:00):
just said, they're just amazing people and we're really going
to miss them when they leave home. Thought, Yeah, wasn't
it so lovely to hear?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Yeah, yeah, a take from a parent like that, Because TV,
you know, the dramas want to portray teenagers as complete
pains in the butt. Yes, So, which leads to my question,
I mean, how much, I mean, how much of this
angst do we almost create by anticipate?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I do I do. Look, I think, you know, I
think I kind of agree in a way that we
do tend to overplay it. And you know, I just
did that before when we were talking that that it
is something you can overplay and you know, but but
but it is based on something, right, It is based
on the fact that that teenagers do have periods where
(06:49):
they're sullen, where they're uncommunicative, where they are seemingly annoying,
and and but that's not but that often for many kids,
it's not that all the time, and they're often it's
often just in periods, it's just an intense and probably
compared to your happy, go lucky ten year old who
(07:09):
life is where life is always sunny and they're always wonderful,
they do go. I mean, it's a natural part of
adolescence to be defiant, to push the limits, to be curious,
to do We all did it as teens, you know,
think about you know, think about when you had your
first drink or your first smoke, or your first sort
of romantic experience. And amusing that term in quotes, but
(07:31):
that's you know, that's not your first snog. That's when
that's what adolescence is about. And parent and so there's
a pushing, there's a natural pushing of the rules and
the pushing of the boundaries. So I think it is
easy to make light of it and to overear it,
but it does happen. Look, our daughter's just left home too,
she's gone to aut to study Midwiffrey, and we miss
(07:55):
her a lot, and she she's a genuinely lovely person,
but she also had her moments when she wasn't quite
so nice.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
If I'm honest, because I'm just curious of so many
questions out of this. By the way, if you've got
any questions for Google about your teenager or observations you
think we could benefit from. Because parenting is you know,
I'm not sure if it's a precise science. When I
say that, I'm dead sure that it's in an imprecise science,
I should say. But having said that, Google, I mean,
(08:27):
being in the job you were and in the profession
being a psychologist and understanding teen angst did that make
it any Did that mean that you were better? You
were you were amazing this question.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And I'm jumping in because no, it didn't. So two
examples I can think of when one of my kids
can't remembers my son and my daughter said, don't try
and psychologize me.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
So that was sort of throw throwing back at you
all the time. Liked that, that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Another time I can remember my daughter was going through
she had a period of anxiety and sort of her
early teens, and she's largely got through that, but I
remember us talking to her about it and my wife said, oh, look,
you know, maybe you could talk to somebody, or maybe
you could do this or do that. Well, maybe you
could talk to dad about it, because that's sort of
his job. And she kind of looked at my daughter,
looked at my wife and said, that sounds like it
(09:24):
will be really boring talking to dad about it. So
it's like, okay, so it's a great leveler. I think. Look,
it's all very well. Having all the theory and all
the practice. To be honest, it's a little bit easier
giving advice and working with people who you aren't related
to because you're not quite so emotionally involved so you are.
(09:47):
I think it is. It's a different position, and I
think it is a useful position. But yeah, when I
get home and shut the door, I'm a parent like
everybody else.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Well, also because you you are subject to the same
foibles and emotions as every other parent.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
That's right, It's just that.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
You maybe you observe your self in real time going
I'm doing exactly what I should, I know, but I'm
so bloody annoyed.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Well, I think it shows how normal and natural it
is that we do get brassed off at our kids,
that we you know, that we lose our rags sometimes,
that we lose our you know, we're short, or we
say something that we you know, that we feel bad
about a couple of seconds later, And I think that's
just normal human reaction and that's and that's okay, that's
(10:33):
what humans do.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
I think at the heart of I mean, obviously we've
got the question about we're going to dig into when
you know, what are the signs that maybe this teenage
withdrawal or moodiness is something a bit more serious? And look,
mental health is something that seems to be I think
more and more kids are suffering from. It seems to
me that the headlines and what we read and consuming
(10:56):
the news is that there are more problems. And I
don't think it's because we're diagnosing it more. But we
have social media and a whole lot of things. But
before we get to that, Google, one of the questions
that popped up and just threw us talking about it
was I'm pretty sure that parents inadvertently sometimes play a
(11:17):
role in their child's misery or their moodiness or their withdrawal.
And it's because the biggest journey for a parent is
you've got to start letting them have a bit more
rope and a bit more freedom. And if they feel
they've got it, I tend to I've got a theory
and look, I'm early days. Mine are twelve and fourteen,
and they don't like me talking about them specifically. But
(11:39):
of course I can because who because I go home
and they say, did you talk about me?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yes, I named you. I said this is what you
said to me, And they're like, no, you didn't. I said, no,
of course I didn't. But I'm trying to educate myself
in my grumpy moments. Tell you what, she's just said
something really rude to me.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
If I try and drum this into her, she's just
going to push back. So I say, tell you what,
I'm going to take myself off and I wait to
see if they work it out for themselves. And invariably,
not invariably, but often they do. And I was thinking, yes,
So the parent who doesn't give them that rope, it's
going to get a lot more pushback.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I think one of the challenges about parenting is that
you can't just do the same thing that you do
with a four year old with a fourteen year old.
That you've got to continue to adjust your style to
fit their age and their stage. You know, you wouldn't
let a four year old go and well, well learn
by themselves. I guess that's a busy road. Isn't it. Gosh,
(12:47):
they shouldn't be playing with that, you know, it's so
you're not going to do that, But with a fourteen
year old you may let them find out the consequence
is a bit more naturally. So I think you do
have to adjust as time goes on, and I completely
agree that they do need the opportunity to try and
see how things go and find out the natural consequences.
(13:09):
There's a sweet spotist of course, and there's lots of
research showing this that if you're too staunch and what
we call authoritative in your parenting it's my way or
the highway, we know that that leads to worse outcomes
for kids or adolescents. And similarly, at the other end,
if you're just what we call las a fair, which
is you just do whatever you like, darling, and we
(13:30):
won't mind, and oh well, that's life, isn't it, that
also leads to bad outcomes. So the sweet spot is
this middle ground where you have rules and boundaries, but
you also, as you said, give them some rope to
try to do stuff themselves and help them or that
they learn through those natural consequences perhaps more than they
(13:53):
might if you told them too so they start to
learn by experience rather than you lecturing them. And I
think it's really crucial to be able to adjust your
style as you go on in life.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
God, it's such a piece I was going to say,
it's such. It is such a piece of isn't it.
I mean, at the moment what I say with one
of them, in particular, who is a force of nature
if they do something wrong, I don't necessarily bring the consequences.
I might say to them what you've said to me,
now that is totally unacceptable. But you know what, nothing's
going to happen for the time being because I'm going
(14:22):
to give you some time to think about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And that makes me sound like I'm, you know, a
bit too smug as a parent because it doesn't always work.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
But you know, I think because I think what you're
doing there is you're actually modeling some self control, and
you're you're showing because you know they'll know that you're
really upset and annoyed about it, but you're actually demonstrating
them to self control. And that's I think there's a huge,
a huge thing. So you're not acting impulsively, you're keeping
(14:51):
somewhat of a call on things and say do you
know what? We will come back to this, and I
think that's hugely beneficial. I think often teenagers learn much
more by by seeing what we do then listening to
what we say. So if you can remain calm, more
calmish as much as possible and not act impulsively and
not suddenly say right, your grounded for seven years, it's like,
(15:14):
oh God, what do I say that for? It actually
shows them a lot. It's really I'll tell you a
quick little story. My wife did that our daughter when
she was a bit younger, about fourteen or fifteen, giving
it my wife some lip in the car and my
wife just didn't see anything at all, and she dropped
our daughter at school, and just as our daughter got
out of the car, she said, Mum, I sometimes think
(15:36):
you let me get away with far too much. I
shouldn't have spoken to you like that, should I.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
In my she must have been feeling so smug.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
She very much wise. It was like, that's right. So
it was just that allowing allowing her to reflect on
her own behavior. And she needs a bit of time
to do that. So it's you know, and it can
have its good consequences.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Okay, I've got one here. I've got two kids. My
ten year old daughter is happy, go lucky, introverted. That's
an interesting one, Happy go lucky introverted, yep. But my
seven year old son is so intense and defiant.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Now.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
We tried a parent the best we can, but we
are worried already about as teenage. Y is what can
we do now to help ease the years ahead.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Look, I think, remember that they're not a teen. I've
heard this a lot from parents. Remember that they're only
seven right now, and parent them as a seven year old,
and don't try as much as possible not to think,
oh my gosh, if I do this, what will they
be like when they're fifteen? Who knows? You know, that's
(16:40):
half a life away. I think just hearing them as
a seven year old respond to what they're like now.
I've heard of many tales of kids who have this,
who have a really defiant, oppositional, bratty street when they're
about seven or eight, and it's almost like they get
out of their system, and by the time they become
a teenager, they've sort of done that because the parents
(17:02):
have put limits and helped them figure that out. When
they're younger, so I think, parent now with a seven
year old, don't try to think, oh my gosh, we
better stop this because they could be whatever when they're
fourteen or fifteen.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Why is that an Are there specific ages where they
become slightly more well, you know, position opposition, bratti opposition.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Typically, you know, everybody knows about the twos and the
threes and the fours. Again, it's that stage of independence.
I don't want to do it. You can't tell me
what to do. And then of course there's definitely a
period and that middle adolescence fourteen fifteen sixteen where we
know that there's an increase in all sorts of those
(17:44):
negative behaviors that you don't like to see and kids.
There's a technical term for it. It's called adolescence limited
anti social behavior. And if you I'm sure you're familiar
with the the Need and Longitudinal Study, and that was
one of the big findings that you know, it's one
of the very many findings out of that study is
(18:06):
that most adolescents go through this period brought in fifteen
sixteen where they do a whole lot of things that
we don't like, that are antisocial, but most of us,
will most of them grow out of it? And when
I say most of us, I have to put up
my hand and say that I'm one of the members
of that Dunedin Longitudinal study. So I've been poked and
prodded since since burs.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
You are one of them. You are one of the subjects.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I'm one of the lucky one thousand, one hundred have
been so born in Dunedin in nineteen seventy two seventy three,
being studied my whole my whole life, or every three
years or so.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
God, there so much I want to ask you about that.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I'm glad to have a whole another show. Everybody's always
fascinated and it's very fascinating. It's fascinating being part of it,
let alone, you know, reading the outcomes.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, I've got a lot of questions on that, so
we might ask those, but we still haven't got onto
the number of recognizing when your teenagers worry some signs
more than more than just teenage moodiness, and we will
get onto that. It's a fascinating discussion though, and you're
welcome to join it. We'd love to have your questions
or texts or calls on eight hundred and eighty ten
(19:15):
eighty text nine two ninety two. My guest is Google Sutherland.
He's principal psychologist and Umbrella Wellbeing, and we're talking about
moody teenagers, among other things. Twenty six past five.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Saba, I would not yes, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
That tune is a request, not a request. We we
don't have people asking for songs and the on the show,
but we always ask them what we like, and that
is the Smiths. I think it's called just a country
just a country boy.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Not a charming man? Sorry? And my guest is Google Sutherland.
He's a principal psychologist and umbrella Wellbeing.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And I'm actually just charming man too.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Well, we'll let you know.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Now.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I've just realized that, of course a subject like this
where you were worried about your teenager, we possibly are
unlikely to get calls, but we are getting some texts
on how to manage your troublesome teenagers, because obviously parents
don't want to be identified talking about their kids. So
here's one. Let's have a look at a couple of
the texts. My nearly eighteen year old son, Billy talks
to me he says hello and goodbye and asks me
(20:32):
things when he wants something. Apart from that, he doesn't talk.
He's doing well at school, he does dance twice a week,
he goes to church youth group piano lessons all willingly.
I'm trying to let him be and not nag him
to talk. But I'm not sure if he's just being
a normal teen or not.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I think that's a really typical kind of example. There
are lots of darent to scrapple with. Look my suggestion
there is it sounds like he's got a lot of healthy,
kind of extra forricular pursuits and activities and groups that
he's involved with. Maybe the thing to do is just
have a quiet word with with the with you know,
(21:09):
the leaders or the people that are involved with those
other groups, just to get a check if he is
doing okay there. And if he is, then I wouldn't
worry too much about it some you know what, you know,
coming home, we're all like this as humans. We come
home and we let our guard down, and we put
on our old clothes sort of literally and metaphorically, and
we lose our politeness and we just grunt and speak.
(21:32):
Sometimes we do that as adults, and it's possible that
that's just what he's doing at home. He's just I
can't really be bothered. So check out how he's going
in those other areas. Check out with school and youth
group and all the other places he is going. If
he's doing well there, if he's positive, he's interacting with people,
then I think you're okay. If they say, oh no,
(21:54):
he's pretty withdrawn here too, then that's the time. Then
you might start to have a few more questions and
want to get him some support.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Are there obvious signs that would be an alarm for
parents or is a case of trying to talk to
other people in their lives and just seeing yeah, quietly.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Well yeah, look, I think that's one of the key things,
is that find out what they're like outside of home,
because there are so many different things going on inside
of home that could make it just about this is it,
This is what he's like at home. He's just grumpy
just because it's at home. But outside of life or sorry,
outside of home, things are going well for her or
(22:32):
for him, and so yeah, checking out I thought, so
if there is, if it's just in one place, particularly
at home, then it's much less so worry than it
is if it's widespread everywhere in all parts of their life.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Okay, here's another one. My son went from a lovely,
sweet boy to a grumpy wouldn't talk to me as
a woman, only talk to men at fourteen, back to
normal at sixteen. Was horrified when his own son became
the same. He hates me and slams the door whenever
I come into the room. He told me, became a
lovely man. Hang on, there's a bit of a tech
(23:07):
grammar thing I'm confused with. But so that's just someone
really disappointing out that. Yeah, they go from that I
hate your sort of thing for as I hate you.
Is that just typical angry behavior?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I think we often when we have as humans, when
we have high emotions, we often say things that we
might mean in that very second, but don't generally mean.
And I know I've said things to my kids or
to my partner or other family members that I regret
almost instantly, but it's just in the heat of the moment.
(23:43):
I think if it's an ongoing thing, and you hear
it time and time and time again, that's when you
start to perhaps might be more of a just than
a heat of the moment sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Another person says, I always give them a little bit
of rope rather than say no all the time, and
they could rebel if they tug it a lot. If
they tug it a lot, I shorten the rope completely.
That's the thing. You can't short it, shorten it all
the way either they do you just.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
No. And particularly they're just getting older, right, So the
older they get, the more independence they're able to have,
both sort of on every aspect really, so you can't.
You don't want to shorten it too much because otherwise
that just creates resentment and they go underground with their behavior.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Now, the person says, I just used to click my
fingers point to the shower room five minutes time out
work really well, calm no, arguments Ah. Something else has
established that authority, though, isn't it. Which I'm guessing is
that if you don't respond to my clicked fingers, you've
lost your phone for a day, or you've.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I would wager that that's been built on the back
of some other habits and patterns that have been laid
down all throughout childhood, so that it was just sort
of natural when they became a team.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
As my guest for that, Okay, high Jens, I'm a
high school teacher and can definitely appre shot the fine
line between being too authoritative and too laid back. I
like to think I know the sweet spot with my students.
I'm a parent of a ten year old, and I'm
conscious that I won't have the same level of authority
with my own child when he becomes a teen. Any
advice would be appreciated. Oh, that is a really smart
(25:22):
observation of your lack of authority with your own children.
I'm married to a teacher who doesn't either.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Look it goes back that you know,
what we were talking about was a professional versus personal distinction. Look,
I think for that person that was texting and you know,
allow you to give yourself some room, give yourself some
time and reflect on what you do if it was
a kid in your classroom, and you might be you know,
(25:53):
when you've got a discipline you or be involved with
your team, because it sounds like that person's got a
lot of wisdom that they've built up from teaching and
that that might go out the window. But when they're
with their own kids, so buying yourself some time and go, actually,
what would I do if this was a kid in
my class? Maybe that's what I should do with my kid.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, Actually, I think that would be the biggest stumbing
block for teachers because they might not recognize that you
might say, what would you do if that was a
kid in your class? And if they're in the provoked
sort of mood, it's like they're not in my class
and the child's and.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
That doesn't that speak to the importance of needing to
stop and step away from it, because you do need
that emotion just to settle down. Because when we have
high levels of emotion, we don't think very clearly and
we and it's not the best time to sort of
be disciplining your team is when you've got a high
level of emotion. So being able to stop and step
back for a second and just buy yourself some time
(26:48):
is helpful.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Excellent, we're going to be we're going to be back
in just a minute. We're going to take a break.
It's twenty three and a half minutes to sex. If
you'd like to text or call about how do you
manage your Moody's sullen silent team? And when you maybe
you've got some experience and when you actually got onorried
that it was something a bit more. We're going to
dig into that a bit more with Google Sutherland and
(27:09):
just a moment. This is News Talks, he'd be It's
twenty three and a half to six. Yes's welcome back
to the show. The Weekend Collective. This is the Parents Squad.
(27:29):
Lots of text Actually, I think there are a lot
of parents probably want to and don't want to have
their voices on the radio, but lots of interesting questions
around worrying about your teenager and the change in moods
and when is it something to worry about. My guest
is Google Sutherland from the Umbrella well Umbrella Well Being?
Should I say is the name of his organization? Actually?
Were people want to check you out? Check you out?
(27:50):
It sounds like a dating site, doesn't it. You want
to check out the work.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
We don't take those sorts of referrals. Just go to
Umbrella dot org, dot m Z and you'll find us.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Here's one what of what happens when the limits and
threats of consequences don't work? Losing the phone for a day,
there always SEMs to be something that they need to
use the phone for some schoolwork, or there are other
commitments that cause us to forget the limits we impose
get away with it.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
As everyone, I'd say, yeah, absolutely, I think that's really
important that if you're going to use consequences, and I
think I think you know, that's a great way of
helping learn some limits, you've got to be able to
enforce them so that that takes a little bit of
planning ahead. So if they need their phone for school,
then trying to ban their phone is probably not going
to be effective, and you basically you undermine yourself as
(28:39):
a parent because then you're in effective. So having some
you might have to stop and have a think about
it and go, actually, what are some better alternatives to that?
So you certainly don't want to have to give in
and be ineffective in that sense.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Because banning the phone is a great punishment, I mean,
but the other thing is it is quite over the
if you because what you're doing is these days you
are socially isolating them.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, that's that's right. Yeah, Yeah, Look, look, phones phones,
there's many not great things about phones, and but also,
as you say, like it or not, it's how young
people socialize. So if you take away their phone, you
are you are really cutting them off from their social networks.
And young people tell us this all the time. They say, look,
(29:26):
if you remove it, then I'm I'm you know, I'm
no one. I don't know what's going on. People can't
get hold of me. And remember, for teenagers, that's the
prime group of people that they want to be with
and they want to be liked and liked by people
their own age. So it's if you're going to take
(29:47):
their phone off and then do it for a very
short period, don't do it like, well, no phone for
two weeks, because that's really socially isolating.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Now we actually when we have done it, I think
we have even said you text your friends now, say
your phone's off for six weeks or six hours, sorry
or whatever, and let them warn them. But the other
thing is, by the way, if your kids are saying
that can't do their phone, they need their phone for schoolwork,
I'm going to generalize and say that they're pulling the
wool over your eyes because it's a device. Let them
use your laptop or they might have their own, and
(30:16):
just say, well, that's how you're doing your homework. Just
as I thought, here's another one. We had one child
that was very angelic pretem but difficult teenager. Another of
our children was very was more trying as a child,
but an angelic team. Both have that very responsible, well
rounded young adults that have strong conscious conscience as to
what's right and wrong. So I guess it's just an
(30:38):
example for people who are worried that are there any
obvious signs Google that it would be a flag for
you better talk to, better take this further or.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Have a chat with Look, I think one obvious sign,
as we kind of mentioned already, if things are going
badly in lots of areas of a young person's life, school, home, socializing,
social groups, when it's widespread, that that would be a time.
If it's just at home, then maybe not so much
of an issue. Lots of us have, you know, don't
(31:12):
behave very well or on our best behavior while we're
at home. So if it's widespread, whatever it is, whether
it's anxiety or depression or whatever it is, when it's
when it's widespread outside the home, then that's so you
do need to keep in contact with you know, you
have to have a listening here as to what else
is going on in your young person's life, and you
can't do that necessarily as directly as you might with
(31:33):
an eight year old. So yeah, just keep an eye out.
Have some of those sort of awkward car conversations where
they're sitting there. You don't have to look at each other,
but there's nothing much else to do, so just yeah,
just just keep an eye out on the rest of
their life.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Actually, just before we before we wrap it up, I've
got to dig into you being one of the kids
in this dened study. But just briefly, I was explaining
to him, I produce a tire about the Dunedin Study.
But it's an incredible study that someone committed to that
back in nineteen seventy two, and the researchers you committed
to it would never see the end of it, but
(32:09):
you are. I've got one question. Does being part of
the Dunedin Study make you ever make you think about
the choices you're making in life? Now it's going to
look in the study.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
No, No, but it was. It was a very surreal experience.
When I was doing my clinical psychology training and we
had people come over and teach a class that were
from the Dunedin Longitudinal Study, and they would talk. They
were teaching us about the data that had come from
me in the first place, so it was quite a
mind bending It was like, oh my God. And it
(32:43):
wasn't until I got to Union Psychology that I realized
the international importance of the study. And it's just been
going so long. But it's also one of its key
features is that it's retained something like over ninety percent
of the original participants, which is one of the unique things.
Often longitudinal studies lose a whole lot of people as
(33:03):
they go on, but they just managed to retain almost
a lot of well over ninety percent.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Of It's sociological, it's psychological, it's medical, is everything.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Until it's everything. Last time I was there, they were
they had a machine up that they measure chemicals in
your bones. They were measuring the lead levels in my
bones with a handheld machine. So they're measuring your teeth,
your bones, your brains, everything. And actually my son, when
he was fifteen, came along as well, so they did
(33:34):
the SAME's. They did the same set of research with
him when he was fifteen that they did with me
when I was fifteen, and then they were able to
compare back, so getting multi generational now. It's really fascinating stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
If they found something that wasn't good news for you,
they'd tell you, wouldn't they. They wouldn't just say.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Only if it's really really like, if let's say they
discovered I had a brain tumor, that they would tell
me that. But if they just noticed that I was
leading an unhealthy lifestyle, then they.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Wouldn't say, Hey, listen, have you ever thought about the
amount of red wine you're drinking of it evening?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
No? No, not particularly because there is that fact. I
don't know quite where they draw the line, but it
is designed to just let people naturally live their lives.
But if there was anything major, they definitely would let
you know.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
So for people who haven't heard of the Dean Study,
if you just google it, the de need and study
the amount of information and really really valuable information just
around the factors that play and influence in negative and
positive outcomes in people's lives and their health. It's really
quite something, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Dooble? Oh, it's huge, it's a massive, and they've been
really struggling for money recently because the funding has dried up.
A little bit, but I believe they've secured it for
the at least the immediate term. But amazing, and now
it's looking at it aging rather than our developments. The
other flip over the other side of the.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Pole, counting the number of gray hairs on your head.
There one last text to get on with, good aim.
I have an opinion that it's essential to work carefully
with your children from a very young age, educating in
boundaries and respect. There are senti disciplines being able to
be able to adjust the situations later in life, such
as education, socializing, and employment. I took this approach with
both our adult children, who are well adjusted and successful
(35:16):
members of society. Cheers Jill. I just think, actually, and
it's being involved with your kids or from day one.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Don't take for granted, be involved, take notice and just
your style to who they are and to how old
they are. And you have to do that differently for
different kids.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Gosh, fascinating conversation. Thanks so much for your time, Doogle.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Thanks Jan it was great. Always a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Next time every time I read the de need and
study results from now and again there's a little bit
of Google in there.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yes, a tiny amount of my blood sweet or tears
are probably in there some way.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Have you ever seen a reference where you have gone, yeah,
that's me. One of them is such and such.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, no, not that close. But I've certainly met and
people that have been the study authors and papers from
them during my own psychology studies, which is quite weird.
What's it's a fascinating with them.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Excellent And if people want to check out Umbrella Wellbeing,
Umbrella dot co dot nzi.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Was that right, Umbrella dot org?
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Oh sorry, Umbrella dot org dot nz just look for
Google Sutherland's you'll find it easy to be there. Okay,
great to talk to you mate. We'll be back to
Wrap Sport with Nathan Lemon just a Moment's eleven minutes
to six.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk zed be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Ed B.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Send this side, no.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
One so living this me trying to get away from me?
Still start singing any love?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes, welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage.
By the way, if you miss any of the previous hours,
you can go and check out our podcast. Look for
the Weekend Collective on News Talk, said b h, this
is the parents Squad and joining us all and introduce
him straight away actually, rather than tease the topic first
or just says he is a principal psychologist at Umbrella
well B and his name is Dougal Sutherland and he's
with me now. Good day, Google, How are you going?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Made something very well? How are you good?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Good? Good? Now we are going to be talking and
we'd love your calls on this. Eight hundred eighty ten
eighty is when was the moment that you decided that
your teenager's moodiness or that you know, the fact that
they didn't seem to be very happy or maybe they're
going through teenage angst. When was it that you realized
that maybe it was something more than that, or if
(01:27):
you have any questions, just as a parent of a
teenager about understanding their moods, then give us a call
on eight hundred eighty t and eighty. But yes, what
was it that that triggered you to think, Gosh, I
need to actually talk to someone else about this because
I'm now worried. Because let's face at Google, we are
worried about our kids all the time anyway, full stuff,
don't we. It's basically, they're born and you worry, and
(01:47):
then they leave home and they worry, and then eventually
I don't know. I actually I was thinking that and
I thought I don't say that to him.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, no, I think it is. I think
it's part and parcel of being a of being a parent.
Do you do remember Tim Do you remember the Harry
Infield show, the comedy show.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Vaguely I know the name.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So there's a great clip on there about becoming a
teenager at the stroke of midnight, the twelve year old
becomes a thirteen year old, and I encourage people to
check it out on you team YouTube. It's it's hilarious,
just all of a sudden like, oh oh, it's life
so hard. Life sucks. You hate me? I'm your parents
(02:30):
and they've gone from being this genteel, lovely twelve year
olds where life is wonderful all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think I'm pretty convinced that I was always lovely
as a kid. I'm not sure if I went through
the teenage and sure you were, of course you were.
I mean I do remember. Actually, I'm trying to think
if I ever did go through a moody phase, what
triggered it? And it was probably some form of heartbreak
or unrequired love?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Look, I think you're I think you're
onder something there. I think it's the it's the phase
and the ups and downs. I think that's the normal
kind of teen stuff. I think when it's like becomes
all the time with everyone, that's when it's like, oh,
that might be a few warning signs. But you know,
we don't know what goes on in our teens brains.
(03:15):
Do teens don't know what's going on in their own brains?
Do they know what triggers them?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
What have we got you here for? That's what I
was hoping to find out. You know, we got we
got the guy We're on zoom by the way, and
in the background, he's Doogle's got his got his very
flash umbrella as a as a sign from umbrella well being.
It is umbrella well being. Didn't I got it right?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yes? Do we? But do we know?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
As my leading look, look we do we?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
You know teenagehood as that time when a young person
is moving away from their family and their parents being
the most important thing to other people, their age being
the most important thing. And it's a natural part of
being an adolescent to kind of reject lots of things
that your parents and family do. That's part of an
(04:11):
individual teenager individuating, becoming their own person, figuring out what
they like and what they don't like, and they start
seeing parents as something they don't want to be like anymore.
And so when their parents tell them something, it's often ooh, yeah,
well that's done. That's what parents say, and it's not
what their friends say. So there's often that reaction, that
(04:32):
negative reaction towards parents. I think the other important thing
to say too, is that teenage years adolescent years are
you are developing self control over emotions. So that and
you've got puberty going on, You've got your first love,
you've got your first heartbreak, you've got exams and friends
going on, and it's a bit of a It's somebody
said to me once, it's like being on shortened street
(04:53):
all the time. There's always dramas and every aspect of
your life, and it's like, yeah, there is, and that's
difficult to navigate. So we should cut our teens some
slack that they're they're navigating life. It's quite hard sometimes,
but they know. We get rubbed up the wrong way
pretty easily by a defiant, oppositional, rude, snotty adolescent. You're
(05:15):
just trying to do your best for and they throw
it back in your face.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
There's another thing that I'm reminded of a friend of
mine who actually I got to know because he is
my builder as well. But he said to me, you know,
you know the cliches around teenage moody, moodiness and all
that sort of sullenness. And he actually said to me
something which gave me a bit of optimism. He said, look,
(05:40):
he said, all that stuff that you know, people overplay
it that are about teenagers. You know, my kids at
this and there's such a pain and all this sort
of thing. And he said, you know what, my daughters
have been nothing but a pleasure. And he said the
day that they leave home is going to be the
worst day of our lives because we've you know, they've
had their moments of they've had their moments. But he
(06:00):
just said, they're just amazing people and we're really going
to miss them when they leave home. Thought, Yeah, wasn't
it so lovely to hear?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Yeah, yeah, a take from a parent like that, Because TV,
you know, the dramas want to portray teenagers as complete
pains in the butt. Yes, So, which leads to my question,
I mean, how much, I mean, how much of this
angst do we almost create by anticipate?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I do I do. Look, I think, you know, I
think I kind of agree in a way that we
do tend to overplay it. And you know, I just
did that before when we were talking that that it
is something you can overplay and you know, but but
but it is based on something, right, It is based
on the fact that that teenagers do have periods where
(06:49):
they're sullen, where they're uncommunicative, where they are seemingly annoying,
and and but that's not but that often for many kids,
it's not that all the time, and they're often it's
often just in periods, it's just an intense and probably
compared to your happy, go lucky ten year old who
(07:09):
life is where life is always sunny and they're always wonderful,
they do go. I mean, it's a natural part of
adolescence to be defiant, to push the limits, to be curious,
to do We all did it as teens, you know,
think about you know, think about when you had your
first drink or your first smoke, or your first sort
of romantic experience. And amusing that term in quotes, but
(07:31):
that's you know, that's not your first snog. That's when
that's what adolescence is about. And parent and so there's
a pushing, there's a natural pushing of the rules and
the pushing of the boundaries. So I think it is
easy to make light of it and to overear it,
but it does happen. Look, our daughter's just left home too,
she's gone to aut to study Midwiffrey, and we miss
(07:55):
her a lot, and she she's a genuinely lovely person,
but she also had her moments when she wasn't quite
so nice.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
If I'm honest, because I'm just curious of so many
questions out of this. By the way, if you've got
any questions for Google about your teenager or observations you
think we could benefit from. Because parenting is you know,
I'm not sure if it's a precise science. When I
say that, I'm dead sure that it's in an imprecise science,
I should say. But having said that, Google, I mean,
(08:27):
being in the job you were and in the profession
being a psychologist and understanding teen angst did that make
it any Did that mean that you were better? You
were you were amazing this question.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And I'm jumping in because no, it didn't. So two
examples I can think of when one of my kids
can't remembers my son and my daughter said, don't try
and psychologize me.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
So that was sort of throw throwing back at you
all the time. Liked that, that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Another time I can remember my daughter was going through
she had a period of anxiety and sort of her
early teens, and she's largely got through that, but I
remember us talking to her about it and my wife said, oh, look,
you know, maybe you could talk to somebody, or maybe
you could do this or do that. Well, maybe you
could talk to dad about it, because that's sort of
his job. And she kind of looked at my daughter,
looked at my wife and said, that sounds like it
(09:24):
will be really boring talking to dad about it. So
it's like, okay, so it's a great leveler. I think. Look,
it's all very well. Having all the theory and all
the practice. To be honest, it's a little bit easier
giving advice and working with people who you aren't related
to because you're not quite so emotionally involved so you are.
(09:47):
I think it is. It's a different position, and I
think it is a useful position. But yeah, when I
get home and shut the door, I'm a parent like
everybody else.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Well, also because you you are subject to the same
foibles and emotions as every other parent.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
That's right, It's just that.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
You maybe you observe your self in real time going
I'm doing exactly what I should, I know, but I'm
so bloody annoyed.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Well, I think it shows how normal and natural it
is that we do get brassed off at our kids,
that we you know, that we lose our rags sometimes,
that we lose our you know, we're short, or we
say something that we you know, that we feel bad
about a couple of seconds later, And I think that's
just normal human reaction and that's and that's okay, that's
(10:33):
what humans do.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
I think at the heart of I mean, obviously we've
got the question about we're going to dig into when
you know, what are the signs that maybe this teenage
withdrawal or moodiness is something a bit more serious? And look,
mental health is something that seems to be I think
more and more kids are suffering from. It seems to
me that the headlines and what we read and consuming
(10:56):
the news is that there are more problems. And I
don't think it's because we're diagnosing it more. But we
have social media and a whole lot of things. But
before we get to that, Google, one of the questions
that popped up and just threw us talking about it
was I'm pretty sure that parents inadvertently sometimes play a
(11:17):
role in their child's misery or their moodiness or their withdrawal.
And it's because the biggest journey for a parent is
you've got to start letting them have a bit more
rope and a bit more freedom. And if they feel
they've got it, I tend to I've got a theory
and look, I'm early days. Mine are twelve and fourteen,
and they don't like me talking about them specifically. But
(11:39):
of course I can because who because I go home
and they say, did you talk about me?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yes, I named you. I said this is what you
said to me, And they're like, no, you didn't. I said, no,
of course I didn't. But I'm trying to educate myself
in my grumpy moments. Tell you what, she's just said
something really rude to me.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
If I try and drum this into her, she's just
going to push back. So I say, tell you what,
I'm going to take myself off and I wait to
see if they work it out for themselves. And invariably,
not invariably, but often they do. And I was thinking, yes,
So the parent who doesn't give them that rope, it's
going to get a lot more pushback.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I think one of the challenges about parenting is that
you can't just do the same thing that you do
with a four year old with a fourteen year old.
That you've got to continue to adjust your style to
fit their age and their stage. You know, you wouldn't
let a four year old go and well, well learn
by themselves. I guess that's a busy road. Isn't it. Gosh,
(12:47):
they shouldn't be playing with that, you know, it's so
you're not going to do that, But with a fourteen
year old you may let them find out the consequence
is a bit more naturally. So I think you do
have to adjust as time goes on, and I completely
agree that they do need the opportunity to try and
see how things go and find out the natural consequences.
(13:09):
There's a sweet spotist of course, and there's lots of
research showing this that if you're too staunch and what
we call authoritative in your parenting it's my way or
the highway, we know that that leads to worse outcomes
for kids or adolescents. And similarly, at the other end,
if you're just what we call las a fair, which
is you just do whatever you like, darling, and we
(13:30):
won't mind, and oh well, that's life, isn't it, that
also leads to bad outcomes. So the sweet spot is
this middle ground where you have rules and boundaries, but
you also, as you said, give them some rope to
try to do stuff themselves and help them or that
they learn through those natural consequences perhaps more than they
(13:53):
might if you told them too so they start to
learn by experience rather than you lecturing them. And I
think it's really crucial to be able to adjust your
style as you go on in life.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
God, it's such a piece I was going to say,
it's such. It is such a piece of isn't it.
I mean, at the moment what I say with one
of them, in particular, who is a force of nature
if they do something wrong, I don't necessarily bring the consequences.
I might say to them what you've said to me,
now that is totally unacceptable. But you know what, nothing's
going to happen for the time being because I'm going
(14:22):
to give you some time to think about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And that makes me sound like I'm, you know, a
bit too smug as a parent because it doesn't always work.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
But you know, I think because I think what you're
doing there is you're actually modeling some self control, and
you're you're showing because you know they'll know that you're
really upset and annoyed about it, but you're actually demonstrating
them to self control. And that's I think there's a huge,
a huge thing. So you're not acting impulsively, you're keeping
(14:51):
somewhat of a call on things and say do you
know what? We will come back to this, and I
think that's hugely beneficial. I think often teenagers learn much
more by by seeing what we do then listening to
what we say. So if you can remain calm, more
calmish as much as possible and not act impulsively and
not suddenly say right, your grounded for seven years, it's like,
(15:14):
oh God, what do I say that for? It actually
shows them a lot. It's really I'll tell you a
quick little story. My wife did that our daughter when
she was a bit younger, about fourteen or fifteen, giving
it my wife some lip in the car and my
wife just didn't see anything at all, and she dropped
our daughter at school, and just as our daughter got
out of the car, she said, Mum, I sometimes think
(15:36):
you let me get away with far too much. I
shouldn't have spoken to you like that, should I.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
In my she must have been feeling so smug.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
She very much wise. It was like, that's right. So
it was just that allowing allowing her to reflect on
her own behavior. And she needs a bit of time
to do that. So it's you know, and it can
have its good consequences.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Okay, I've got one here. I've got two kids. My
ten year old daughter is happy, go lucky, introverted. That's
an interesting one, Happy go lucky introverted, yep. But my
seven year old son is so intense and defiant.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Now.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
We tried a parent the best we can, but we
are worried already about as teenage. Y is what can
we do now to help ease the years ahead.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Look, I think, remember that they're not a teen. I've
heard this a lot from parents. Remember that they're only
seven right now, and parent them as a seven year old,
and don't try as much as possible not to think,
oh my gosh, if I do this, what will they
be like when they're fifteen? Who knows? You know, that's
(16:40):
half a life away. I think just hearing them as
a seven year old respond to what they're like now.
I've heard of many tales of kids who have this,
who have a really defiant, oppositional, bratty street when they're
about seven or eight, and it's almost like they get
out of their system, and by the time they become
a teenager, they've sort of done that because the parents
(17:02):
have put limits and helped them figure that out. When
they're younger, so I think, parent now with a seven
year old, don't try to think, oh my gosh, we
better stop this because they could be whatever when they're
fourteen or fifteen.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Why is that an Are there specific ages where they
become slightly more well, you know, position opposition, bratti opposition.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Typically, you know, everybody knows about the twos and the
threes and the fours. Again, it's that stage of independence.
I don't want to do it. You can't tell me
what to do. And then of course there's definitely a
period and that middle adolescence fourteen fifteen sixteen where we
know that there's an increase in all sorts of those
(17:44):
negative behaviors that you don't like to see and kids.
There's a technical term for it. It's called adolescence limited
anti social behavior. And if you I'm sure you're familiar
with the the Need and Longitudinal Study, and that was
one of the big findings that you know, it's one
of the very many findings out of that study is
(18:06):
that most adolescents go through this period brought in fifteen
sixteen where they do a whole lot of things that
we don't like, that are antisocial, but most of us,
will most of them grow out of it? And when
I say most of us, I have to put up
my hand and say that I'm one of the members
of that Dunedin Longitudinal study. So I've been poked and
prodded since since burs.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
You are one of them. You are one of the subjects.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I'm one of the lucky one thousand, one hundred have
been so born in Dunedin in nineteen seventy two seventy three,
being studied my whole my whole life, or every three
years or so.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
God, there so much I want to ask you about that.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I'm glad to have a whole another show. Everybody's always
fascinated and it's very fascinating. It's fascinating being part of it,
let alone, you know, reading the outcomes.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, I've got a lot of questions on that, so
we might ask those, but we still haven't got onto
the number of recognizing when your teenagers worry some signs
more than more than just teenage moodiness, and we will
get onto that. It's a fascinating discussion though, and you're
welcome to join it. We'd love to have your questions
or texts or calls on eight hundred and eighty ten
(19:15):
eighty text nine two ninety two. My guest is Google Sutherland.
He's principal psychologist and Umbrella Wellbeing, and we're talking about
moody teenagers, among other things. Twenty six past five.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Saba, I would not yes, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
That tune is a request, not a request. We we
don't have people asking for songs and the on the show,
but we always ask them what we like, and that
is the Smiths. I think it's called just a country
just a country boy.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Not a charming man? Sorry? And my guest is Google Sutherland.
He's a principal psychologist and umbrella Wellbeing.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And I'm actually just charming man too.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Well, we'll let you know.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Now.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I've just realized that, of course a subject like this
where you were worried about your teenager, we possibly are
unlikely to get calls, but we are getting some texts
on how to manage your troublesome teenagers, because obviously parents
don't want to be identified talking about their kids. So
here's one. Let's have a look at a couple of
the texts. My nearly eighteen year old son, Billy talks
to me he says hello and goodbye and asks me
(20:32):
things when he wants something. Apart from that, he doesn't talk.
He's doing well at school, he does dance twice a week,
he goes to church youth group piano lessons all willingly.
I'm trying to let him be and not nag him
to talk. But I'm not sure if he's just being
a normal teen or not.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I think that's a really typical kind of example. There
are lots of darent to scrapple with. Look my suggestion
there is it sounds like he's got a lot of healthy,
kind of extra forricular pursuits and activities and groups that
he's involved with. Maybe the thing to do is just
have a quiet word with with the with you know,
(21:09):
the leaders or the people that are involved with those
other groups, just to get a check if he is
doing okay there. And if he is, then I wouldn't
worry too much about it some you know what, you know,
coming home, we're all like this as humans. We come
home and we let our guard down, and we put
on our old clothes sort of literally and metaphorically, and
we lose our politeness and we just grunt and speak.
(21:32):
Sometimes we do that as adults, and it's possible that
that's just what he's doing at home. He's just I
can't really be bothered. So check out how he's going
in those other areas. Check out with school and youth
group and all the other places he is going. If
he's doing well there, if he's positive, he's interacting with people,
then I think you're okay. If they say, oh no,
(21:54):
he's pretty withdrawn here too, then that's the time. Then
you might start to have a few more questions and
want to get him some support.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Are there obvious signs that would be an alarm for
parents or is a case of trying to talk to
other people in their lives and just seeing yeah, quietly.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Well yeah, look, I think that's one of the key things,
is that find out what they're like outside of home,
because there are so many different things going on inside
of home that could make it just about this is it,
This is what he's like at home. He's just grumpy
just because it's at home. But outside of life or sorry,
outside of home, things are going well for her or
(22:32):
for him, and so yeah, checking out I thought, so
if there is, if it's just in one place, particularly
at home, then it's much less so worry than it
is if it's widespread everywhere in all parts of their life.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Okay, here's another one. My son went from a lovely,
sweet boy to a grumpy wouldn't talk to me as
a woman, only talk to men at fourteen, back to
normal at sixteen. Was horrified when his own son became
the same. He hates me and slams the door whenever
I come into the room. He told me, became a
lovely man. Hang on, there's a bit of a tech
(23:07):
grammar thing I'm confused with. But so that's just someone
really disappointing out that. Yeah, they go from that I
hate your sort of thing for as I hate you.
Is that just typical angry behavior?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I think we often when we have as humans, when
we have high emotions, we often say things that we
might mean in that very second, but don't generally mean.
And I know I've said things to my kids or
to my partner or other family members that I regret
almost instantly, but it's just in the heat of the moment.
(23:43):
I think if it's an ongoing thing, and you hear
it time and time and time again, that's when you
start to perhaps might be more of a just than
a heat of the moment sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Another person says, I always give them a little bit
of rope rather than say no all the time, and
they could rebel if they tug it a lot. If
they tug it a lot, I shorten the rope completely.
That's the thing. You can't short it, shorten it all
the way either they do you just.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
No. And particularly they're just getting older, right, So the
older they get, the more independence they're able to have,
both sort of on every aspect really, so you can't.
You don't want to shorten it too much because otherwise
that just creates resentment and they go underground with their behavior.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Now, the person says, I just used to click my
fingers point to the shower room five minutes time out
work really well, calm no, arguments Ah. Something else has
established that authority, though, isn't it. Which I'm guessing is
that if you don't respond to my clicked fingers, you've
lost your phone for a day, or you've.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I would wager that that's been built on the back
of some other habits and patterns that have been laid
down all throughout childhood, so that it was just sort
of natural when they became a team.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
As my guest for that, Okay, high Jens, I'm a
high school teacher and can definitely appre shot the fine
line between being too authoritative and too laid back. I
like to think I know the sweet spot with my students.
I'm a parent of a ten year old, and I'm
conscious that I won't have the same level of authority
with my own child when he becomes a teen. Any
advice would be appreciated. Oh, that is a really smart
(25:22):
observation of your lack of authority with your own children.
I'm married to a teacher who doesn't either.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Look it goes back that you know,
what we were talking about was a professional versus personal distinction. Look,
I think for that person that was texting and you know,
allow you to give yourself some room, give yourself some
time and reflect on what you do if it was
a kid in your classroom, and you might be you know,
(25:53):
when you've got a discipline you or be involved with
your team, because it sounds like that person's got a
lot of wisdom that they've built up from teaching and
that that might go out the window. But when they're
with their own kids, so buying yourself some time and go, actually,
what would I do if this was a kid in
my class? Maybe that's what I should do with my kid.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, Actually, I think that would be the biggest stumbing
block for teachers because they might not recognize that you
might say, what would you do if that was a
kid in your class? And if they're in the provoked
sort of mood, it's like they're not in my class
and the child's and.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
That doesn't that speak to the importance of needing to
stop and step away from it, because you do need
that emotion just to settle down. Because when we have
high levels of emotion, we don't think very clearly and
we and it's not the best time to sort of
be disciplining your team is when you've got a high
level of emotion. So being able to stop and step
back for a second and just buy yourself some time
(26:48):
is helpful.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Excellent, we're going to be we're going to be back
in just a minute. We're going to take a break.
It's twenty three and a half minutes to sex. If
you'd like to text or call about how do you
manage your Moody's sullen silent team? And when you maybe
you've got some experience and when you actually got onorried
that it was something a bit more. We're going to
dig into that a bit more with Google Sutherland and
(27:09):
just a moment. This is News Talks, he'd be It's
twenty three and a half to six. Yes's welcome back
to the show. The Weekend Collective. This is the Parents Squad.
(27:29):
Lots of text Actually, I think there are a lot
of parents probably want to and don't want to have
their voices on the radio, but lots of interesting questions
around worrying about your teenager and the change in moods
and when is it something to worry about. My guest
is Google Sutherland from the Umbrella well Umbrella Well Being?
Should I say is the name of his organization? Actually?
Were people want to check you out? Check you out?
(27:50):
It sounds like a dating site, doesn't it. You want
to check out the work.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
We don't take those sorts of referrals. Just go to
Umbrella dot org, dot m Z and you'll find us.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Here's one what of what happens when the limits and
threats of consequences don't work? Losing the phone for a day,
there always SEMs to be something that they need to
use the phone for some schoolwork, or there are other
commitments that cause us to forget the limits we impose
get away with it.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
As everyone, I'd say, yeah, absolutely, I think that's really
important that if you're going to use consequences, and I
think I think you know, that's a great way of
helping learn some limits, you've got to be able to
enforce them so that that takes a little bit of
planning ahead. So if they need their phone for school,
then trying to ban their phone is probably not going
to be effective, and you basically you undermine yourself as
(28:39):
a parent because then you're in effective. So having some
you might have to stop and have a think about
it and go, actually, what are some better alternatives to that?
So you certainly don't want to have to give in
and be ineffective in that sense.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Because banning the phone is a great punishment, I mean,
but the other thing is it is quite over the
if you because what you're doing is these days you
are socially isolating them.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, that's that's right. Yeah, Yeah, Look, look, phones phones,
there's many not great things about phones, and but also,
as you say, like it or not, it's how young
people socialize. So if you take away their phone, you
are you are really cutting them off from their social networks.
And young people tell us this all the time. They say, look,
(29:26):
if you remove it, then I'm I'm you know, I'm
no one. I don't know what's going on. People can't
get hold of me. And remember, for teenagers, that's the
prime group of people that they want to be with
and they want to be liked and liked by people
their own age. So it's if you're going to take
(29:47):
their phone off and then do it for a very
short period, don't do it like, well, no phone for
two weeks, because that's really socially isolating.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Now we actually when we have done it, I think
we have even said you text your friends now, say
your phone's off for six weeks or six hours, sorry
or whatever, and let them warn them. But the other
thing is, by the way, if your kids are saying
that can't do their phone, they need their phone for schoolwork,
I'm going to generalize and say that they're pulling the
wool over your eyes because it's a device. Let them
use your laptop or they might have their own, and
(30:16):
just say, well, that's how you're doing your homework. Just
as I thought, here's another one. We had one child
that was very angelic pretem but difficult teenager. Another of
our children was very was more trying as a child,
but an angelic team. Both have that very responsible, well
rounded young adults that have strong conscious conscience as to
what's right and wrong. So I guess it's just an
(30:38):
example for people who are worried that are there any
obvious signs Google that it would be a flag for
you better talk to, better take this further or.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Have a chat with Look, I think one obvious sign,
as we kind of mentioned already, if things are going
badly in lots of areas of a young person's life, school, home, socializing,
social groups, when it's widespread, that that would be a time.
If it's just at home, then maybe not so much
of an issue. Lots of us have, you know, don't
(31:12):
behave very well or on our best behavior while we're
at home. So if it's widespread, whatever it is, whether
it's anxiety or depression or whatever it is, when it's
when it's widespread outside the home, then that's so you
do need to keep in contact with you know, you
have to have a listening here as to what else
is going on in your young person's life, and you
can't do that necessarily as directly as you might with
(31:33):
an eight year old. So yeah, just keep an eye out.
Have some of those sort of awkward car conversations where
they're sitting there. You don't have to look at each other,
but there's nothing much else to do, so just yeah,
just just keep an eye out on the rest of
their life.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Actually, just before we before we wrap it up, I've
got to dig into you being one of the kids
in this dened study. But just briefly, I was explaining
to him, I produce a tire about the Dunedin Study.
But it's an incredible study that someone committed to that
back in nineteen seventy two, and the researchers you committed
to it would never see the end of it, but
(32:09):
you are. I've got one question. Does being part of
the Dunedin Study make you ever make you think about
the choices you're making in life? Now it's going to
look in the study.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
No, No, but it was. It was a very surreal experience.
When I was doing my clinical psychology training and we
had people come over and teach a class that were
from the Dunedin Longitudinal Study, and they would talk. They
were teaching us about the data that had come from
me in the first place, so it was quite a
mind bending It was like, oh my God. And it
(32:43):
wasn't until I got to Union Psychology that I realized
the international importance of the study. And it's just been
going so long. But it's also one of its key
features is that it's retained something like over ninety percent
of the original participants, which is one of the unique things.
Often longitudinal studies lose a whole lot of people as
(33:03):
they go on, but they just managed to retain almost
a lot of well over ninety percent.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Of It's sociological, it's psychological, it's medical, is everything.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Until it's everything. Last time I was there, they were
they had a machine up that they measure chemicals in
your bones. They were measuring the lead levels in my
bones with a handheld machine. So they're measuring your teeth,
your bones, your brains, everything. And actually my son, when
he was fifteen, came along as well, so they did
(33:34):
the SAME's. They did the same set of research with
him when he was fifteen that they did with me
when I was fifteen, and then they were able to
compare back, so getting multi generational now. It's really fascinating stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
If they found something that wasn't good news for you,
they'd tell you, wouldn't they. They wouldn't just say.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Only if it's really really like, if let's say they
discovered I had a brain tumor, that they would tell
me that. But if they just noticed that I was
leading an unhealthy lifestyle, then they.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Wouldn't say, Hey, listen, have you ever thought about the
amount of red wine you're drinking of it evening?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
No? No, not particularly because there is that fact. I
don't know quite where they draw the line, but it
is designed to just let people naturally live their lives.
But if there was anything major, they definitely would let
you know.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
So for people who haven't heard of the Dean Study,
if you just google it, the de need and study
the amount of information and really really valuable information just
around the factors that play and influence in negative and
positive outcomes in people's lives and their health. It's really
quite something, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Dooble? Oh, it's huge, it's a massive, and they've been
really struggling for money recently because the funding has dried up.
A little bit, but I believe they've secured it for
the at least the immediate term. But amazing, and now
it's looking at it aging rather than our developments. The
other flip over the other side of the.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Pole, counting the number of gray hairs on your head.
There one last text to get on with, good aim.
I have an opinion that it's essential to work carefully
with your children from a very young age, educating in
boundaries and respect. There are senti disciplines being able to
be able to adjust the situations later in life, such
as education, socializing, and employment. I took this approach with
both our adult children, who are well adjusted and successful
(35:16):
members of society. Cheers Jill. I just think, actually, and
it's being involved with your kids or from day one.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Don't take for granted, be involved, take notice and just
your style to who they are and to how old
they are. And you have to do that differently for
different kids.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Gosh, fascinating conversation. Thanks so much for your time, Doogle.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Thanks Jan it was great. Always a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Next time every time I read the de need and
study results from now and again there's a little bit
of Google in there.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yes, a tiny amount of my blood sweet or tears
are probably in there some way.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Have you ever seen a reference where you have gone, yeah,
that's me. One of them is such and such.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, no, not that close. But I've certainly met and
people that have been the study authors and papers from
them during my own psychology studies, which is quite weird.
What's it's a fascinating with them.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Excellent And if people want to check out Umbrella Wellbeing,
Umbrella dot co dot nzi.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Was that right, Umbrella dot org?
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Oh sorry, Umbrella dot org dot nz just look for
Google Sutherland's you'll find it easy to be there. Okay,
great to talk to you mate. We'll be back to
Wrap Sport with Nathan Lemon just a Moment's eleven minutes
to six.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk zed be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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