December 19, 2025 • 41 mins
From tax changes to interest rates to regulation changes, there's an ever growing list of reasons for kiwis to be a bit more hesitant to invest in property.
Now with changes to foreign buyers laws, we may be staring down the barrel of a completely different property market.
So here's the question, has the model for property investment fundamentally changed? How are investors going about it these days, and is it even worth it?
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks Ed.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Bell Christmas.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
As the barnhead Snoopy, they're in his saves. He reached
more the trigger to blew it every day my eating
shoot will We'll never know?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
I wasn't the bells.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
From the village below?
Speaker 5 (00:47):
Yes, welcome back to the Weekend Collective. A little bit
of Snoopy is Christmas the Raw Guardsman. I think some
people think, oh, is that really the Royal Guardsman, you know,
the sort of official raw Guardsman. I think I think
it's the name of the band. In fact, I haven't
answered that question for myself. As I say it, I'm
almost starting to question that now, But I think the
band's name is the Royal Guardsman. But yes, and it's
(01:09):
nothing actually to do with necessarily the army. But anyway,
it's that's Snoopy's Christmas. My producer at Tyra is now
doing a fact check on that. She's going to probably
let me know if I've made some sort of silly statement,
which is my specialty at this time of the year.
You know, what the hell, this is the one roof
radio show Welcoming and we're going to have a chat
initially about Look, we've had tax changes, all sorts of
(01:34):
things that happened. We've had property we saw what would
happened with COVID, we've had expensive money, we've had cheap money,
and there's been changes to foreign buyers laws and for a while. Look,
the fundamental question we're going to explore this hour is
has the model for property investment fundamentally change? And when
(01:55):
I mean the model, maybe I mean also the expectations,
because maybe the model is sort of maybe it's unchanged.
But we're going to dig into it because I've had
plenty of get plenty of guests over the years who've
talked about, look, the property market doubles every eight or
ten years. Property market, Yeah, it's doubled every or ten years.
And I sort of think, well, actually that means exponential growth,
(02:18):
which at a point is going to be hard to
keep up with. And I've had a chat with a
few people who have said maybe that's changing. In fact,
that it may be up to thirty years before we
see a doubling in the growth. I don't know if
I knew I'd be in with every dollar in cent
I had in the property market, but you know, I'm
not anyway, someone who who well I'm not sure how
far he is up to his knees in property or
(02:40):
he is should it be is, but he's a resident
economist with Opus Partners, and he's with us for the
One roof radio show and his name is Ed McKnight.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Hang out to be here, Tim for my final radio
appearance of the year.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Very nice. Actually it's been quite We've had quite quite
a fun time this year, an't we.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
We certainly have. And I think I was on this
morning with Jack Tame talked about ignogous fundly because I
was saying to Jack, you know what, I'd really love
to try iced egnog. Now, my mum and I tried
to make this years ago, look pulled up the ingredient list,
realized it's actually a bit harder than it than you'd
think creating this stuff. So anyway, this year, I'm just
going to buy it from the local pharaoh and we'll
(03:21):
chuck the ice over that. And so that was my
little tip for Jack Tay before we started talking about it.
Interest rates or whatever we were talking about.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Oh, in fact, that's interesting. So you were on as
a sort of in your economist sort of thing, but
the thing you remember most about this morning's broadcast was eggnog.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Oh, it's because I said it in passing. Then Jack's
all of a sudden talking about it for about a
couple of minutes about whether you have it hot or
whether you have it cold, and what it's like. When
he was over in the States, he got quite into it.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Actually, Actually, now that you've mentioned it, I mean it's
a bit of a winter treat, really, isn't it. And
we inherit the Northern Hemisphere Christmas traditions traditions. Yeah, but
eggnog is it tastes like it's It doesn't taste like
it's as boozy as it is, but eggnog is really boozy.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Well, I think if you're buying it from the supermarket,
it comes what d unboost. That's exactly right. And so
if you do have a bit of a heavy poor
or heavy hand like b then yes, it cared become
quite boozy quite quickly. But sometimes that's the point as well.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
Yeah. Actually, if I'd thought ahead, I possibly would have
been a nice thing to bring for my guests to
sit here having a chat about property over an eggnog.
Maybe I have to think about that. Tomorrow. Are you're
getting yours from Pharaoh?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Are you?
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I just feel like I've let you down now term
I should have brought it or we could have had
a couple of shot glasses, not shot glasses, a couple
of nice glasses do it well?
Speaker 5 (04:41):
No, we would have just pretended it was non alcoholic
and gone from them. People would have just had to
judge from our dominia where what was the truth? Anyway?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Um?
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Now, but it's even framing the question is it's a
question of semantics, isn't it? Around? You know, it has
the model for property investment fundamentally changed. As we know
first time buyers have been jumping in because you know,
we've seen property prices ease, it's been what would be
described as a buyers market, but we still haven't Property
(05:13):
is still expensive. It's not you know, it's not cheap.
And the expectations of investors to me now would be
quite different to what they might have been even just
a handful of years ago. But it's certainly different to
maybe ten years ago. Has the model for investing or
(05:35):
the expectations how would you frame the question? Actually?
Speaker 1 (05:38):
First, well, I suppose the question is do you still
expect that house price is going to keep increasing at
the rates they have over the last thirty years. Are
they going to continue to double every ten years. One
thing that's really important to point out is that over
the last fifteen odd years, actually we have seen a
slow down in the rate of doubling of house prices.
It has not been closer to the ten year mark
(06:01):
that a lot of people have talked about. It's been
more like twelve to fifteen years, depending on which area
of the country you're in. So even this idea of
property prices doubling over the last ten years, actually we
have not seen that consistently. Funnily enough, we actually back
in the eighties we had house prices at one point
doubling every four years because inflation was so high. So
(06:24):
if we're just talking about nominal house prices or the
price you actually see on the contract, so not adjusting
for inflation, sometimes it's been a hell of a lot quicker.
But we have seen over the last thirty to fifty
years are slow down in house price increases. They've still
been fast, investors have still made a lot of money,
(06:44):
but there has been a somewhat of a slowdown. One
thing that could be quite interesting and useful. As we're
having this conversation, Tim, is the rule of seventy two.
Have you heard of the rule of seventy two?
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Ummm, I should say yes, because you might have mentioned
this before, but I haven't double eight, haven't heard of it?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
This is it oblique twice to say that I not.
So the rule of seventy two is really useful because
this is a way of figuring out how fast it
takes for something to double. So let's say that house
prices went up by ten percent. So what you would
do is go seventy two divided by ten, So house
prices will double in seven point two years. Right, Why
(07:27):
do we say seventy seventy two is the magic number?
With the rule of seventy two? You see, it's kind
of as well.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
But the rule, it's just sorry explained to me. It
start again, so I'll start again. Start pretend I'm even
pretend I'm an absolute numpty. Okay, that's I don't know
how hard that is, but let's go.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It's totally fine. So if we think about house prices,
will any sort of asset doubling. There's this kind of
mathematical thing about the number seventy two that it helps
us to figure out how fast things double over a
certain period. So if we think about house prices right roughly,
they've gone up by about seven percent per year, So
you go seventy two divided by seven. It's a little
(08:07):
over ten, right, So if house prices go up by
on average seven percent a year, there we go ten
years roughly, okay. And so the reason that's quite useful
in this conversation is it can help us do the
maths really quickly. So you were saying in your introduction
that maybe house prices might double every twenty five to
(08:27):
thirty years. So if we take seventy two, we divide
it by twenty five, that would mean that house prices
would be going up on average about two point nine percent,
And so you can do the math again. It's just
this is a good test to say, are we in
a kind of ballpark or very very quickly? You know what,
do you how fast you think house prices might go up?
(08:49):
That gives you the doubling time really quickly?
Speaker 5 (08:52):
Okay. Actually, just there's lots to dig in there by
the way, you can join the conversation anytime if you
we'd love to hear from you on at eight one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. Do you think here's a
really simple way putting it. Has the game changed when
it comes to what you expect when you're investing in
a property, what you can expect back And I would
(09:14):
refer to the days when people would buy a property
that'd liver I mean, leverage was the magic thing. Probably
still as of course, but the rent used to cover
the costy mortgage. Those days probably unless you've really got
a lot of equity in it, are gone. So yeah,
we'd love your cause on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. Well,
that's let's get back to that.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
The r all of seventy two. So using that you said
twenty five to thirty years is potentially that house prices
might double. So that would mean that house prices would
be going up on average somewhere between two point four
to two point nine percent per year. Now, the reason
I bring that up is you can just stress test
that and say does that sound reasonable or not? To me,
that sounds a little bit light, because household incomes tend
(09:56):
to go up by something about three and a half
to three and a half percent to four percent per
year on average, So i'd expect something close sort of
four to five percent. Now, if we're thinking about the
time to double, that would be kind of about fifteen
to eighteen years. So yes, I don't think that it's
going to be house prices doubling every ten years, but
(10:16):
it hasn't been for the last fifteen years, and i'd
expect it to be a bit slower. Fifteen to fifteen
years sounds right to me.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
It's also the reason that I would have heard I'll
tell you what, I probably was hearing that prediction even
just a year ago, without you know, quoting any particular experts.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Doubling every ten years.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Yeah, but I wonder is that because people may have
been looking at remember when it went nuts with the
cheap money. Yeah, so if you were to pick that
as your peak, that you could probably find in a
number where it was doubling a lot quicker. But of
course we've seen it since the peak tail offs somewhat.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
It does depend on at what point do you start
measuring it, right, Like, if you did buy an no
event between twenty one where house prices were out their highest,
it could take you much longer than that, because, first
of all, we've got to recover back up. I think
at the moment was still about sixteen percent fifteen percent
down depending on the data you look at. So first
you'd have to recover that before you get any increases
(11:12):
further on that.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
Yeah, Actually, the other thing is okay, talking about how
household income salaries, et cetera. Going up at say three
three and a half percent or something, is still the
ability to or the house price growth rate? Does that
mean that people's deposits as well? Because the amount of
(11:33):
equity that you need to accumulate. Does that mean that,
intuitively you're the amount that people can accumulate goes up
at that rate or is it harder?
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Well, it's obviously easy to save when your income goes up,
which is quite quite nice.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Yeah, But in terms of other things cost more anyway,
So are you able to save?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Oh, I understand what you mean. Well, funnily enough, a
lot of people don't feel this intuitively because things tend
to It's easy to see house prices or inflation, the
cost of living, household incomes. It's easy to see that
going up in a graph over ten, fifteen, twenty years
and say, look, there's the trend. But when you're living
at day to day. A lot of people say, to me,
(12:13):
well ed by income doesn't go up like clockwork three
three and a half percent per year. No it doesn't.
But over time you do tend to see that people's
incomes go up, but it might come and fits and starts.
Something that's quite surprising for people, though, is that generally speaking,
wages go up faster than inflation. And I once had
a financial advice it's saying to me, well, that means
(12:34):
that people are getting richer over time. Yes, we are
as a society. We are much richer today than we
were in the sixties, seventies, nineties, or even ten years ago. Now,
that has not been the case over the last few years,
where when inflation was running at about seven point two
percent seven point three percent, wages were not keeping up
with inflation at that point. Now things have turned around
(12:56):
and we are seeing wages go up at a faster
rate than inflation by most measures.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
It also feels that, I mean, there's a whole lot
of so many different angles to this New Zealand economy.
Doesn't feel necessarily that has taken a backward step in
terms of the sense of prosperity, that people might feel
as well that that game seems to have changed as well,
doesn't it. Oh yeah, oh yeah, this is good. Da,
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well this one, you know, this this recession that we've
been through, and you know, people talk about GDP, which
is basically the size of our economy. I tend to
like or prefer looking at GDP per capita because if
we've got a whole heap of people coming and immigrating
to New Zealand, well that could make the economy bigger.
But on a per person basis, that's what we all
care about because that's what we feel day to day.
(13:41):
And when we look at that measure, the size of
the economy per person, we see that this recession that
we've been through has been worse, worse, and more protracted.
It's god on longer than the GFC or the Asian
Financial Crisis. So yeah, this one feels pretty bad.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Right. We want your takes on this eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty text nine nine two. Let's kick it
off with Craig Gooda.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, guys, Yeah, it's a conversation you can keep on having.
I guess we're in a position where we've just subdivided
to sell another property because we just really couldn't how
would you put it, We couldn't make any capital return
on the property because it was still on the same title.
(14:28):
So we're selling the back property now as a subdivided lot.
Now I haven't seen like as a rental property that
you're really getting your head very far. And with the
current environment economically, it's probably the last five or six years,
(14:50):
it's been pretty stagnant, right, Well.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I wouldn't necessarily say over the last five to six,
but certainly over the last over the last four years,
it's been a bit of a tough time for property investors.
You know, since house prices started going down into twin
twenty one, they fell pretty sharply for eighteen months and
then have just been going sideways. So certainly even if
an investor bought at the start at twenty twenty one,
(15:13):
you know, they're holding on now they have been held
for five years. Yeah, they might not have seen their
house price go up, or they would have seen it
go up, but then they would have seen it come
down to the same level that they purchased that So
it probably doesn't surprise me that somebody like in your
position saying, well, how do we increase the value of
this property? And actually some division is one way to
do it. The other way, of course, is renovations or developing,
(15:37):
putting it if I'm not sure, is there is the
back section that you're selling? It's blank?
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
There's nothing on it?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
No? No, it has a dwelling on it. So I've
been renovating, buying and renovating properties through around the last
thirty years, so generally as a working doing work for
other people, but generally hanging on to a probably five
or six years and then selling them and sort of
you know, getting your you know, you're sort of putty
(16:05):
back out of that obviously, I mean you can them
to a more sense of property or a couple of properties.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
I see.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So you've got the current market has really really bucked
that trend of buying and selling every five to six years.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Well, it hasn't, hasn't, Like I mean, so the first
COVID lockdown was a great opportunity because it was like, Okay,
you're locked down, what are you going to do? So
we just renovated the house that we're in. Yeah, you've
got nothing else of there, guys, So let's talk into it.
But and that was sold okay in like twenty twenty three,
(16:43):
twenty twenty threads And yeah, we did okay out of it,
but probably not as well as you would expect for
the amount of brand new kitchen, brand new bathrooms, you know,
massive gx all sorts of the expenditure was probably more
than equal to the labor, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, that's one of the tough things, you know. I
was actually speaking a Peter wolf Camp and other news
what he'd be present the other day, and he was
saying sometimes and he was specifically an example of a
first home buyer. Sometimes a first home buyer will look
at or a home buyer would look at two villas
side by side, one renovated, one unrenovated, and think that's great.
I'll buy the one that's unrenovated. I'll do that up
(17:20):
and then I'll make all of this money. And then
they realize that the renovation costs and the labor if
they're painting things themselves, are doing things. Once you add
it all up, gosh, they should have just bought the
first property. But I think this is a really good
example to be LNS Craig of how property investment might
look going forward, which is that if you're going to
be buying existing properties with that thirty percent deposit, maybe
(17:42):
in order to get a head while house prices aren't
going up as fast. If that's what in fact actually happens,
then you might need to do things like somedividing or
developing or renovating to increase the value, especially if you've
got quite a short time window like you've got in
this situation. You know, five to six years is quite
a short period to be buying a property, you know,
(18:02):
maybe doing something to it, and then selling it five
to sixty later. Typically what I'm doing to investors, we're
talking kind of fifteen, seventeen to twenty years to get
that long term capital appreciation because you know, as we
say in this example, five to six years can be
pretty short and house prices can be very volatile.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Great, right, well, so how have are you still engaged
with property investing? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Significantly, Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, But we've sort of we're
the sort of people that we rent a property out
to somebody, and we really want them to your homes
and let them to take it over, and we're not
going to be sticking our noses pretty much.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
So how much equity? I mean, are you having to
subsidize rental things? You've been doing so long that you've
got enough equity where the rent is just ticking over
and it's just sitting.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
There, so we don't have we're one hundred percent equity,
So which is a nice place to be obviously not bad.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Yeah, actually that but that actually that is an interesting one, Craig,
because I do wonder whether that's there are a lot
of real sorry, a lot of investors. I mean eighty
of the rental stock in New Zealand. I gather roughly
around that number as investors, and many of them might
be a bit like you, where they've got significant equity
in the properties. Is that would that be your read
(19:24):
of it?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Still, I do believe there's a bit of that. I
also think though, that something that comes with that is
something that's not often discussed. It's like, okay, like you
you're doing so well, guys, you're around you know, you've
got a rental property and you're your mortgage free. The
reality of depends on the property, of course, Like we
have a property that's a large property that requires a
(19:49):
significant amount of maintenance. So by the time you pay
your tax on that and then you pay the maintenance.
You're not cracking it and put it that way, but
you are obviously hoping for that long term equity game.
But my question a little bit that the sort of
(20:10):
now we're getting a bit older, we wanted to free
out some capital, right and actually have a bit of
cash so we can do some trips overseas and do
different things. Ye are we better off to buy a
property with a with less equity in it? Does that
make a.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Difference, Well, it can do in some cases getting a
bit of a mortgage. What you might do in your
situation though, of course none of this is personalized financial advice.
You talk to an advisor. But one thing you might
consider is, okay, you want to go and do a
whole heap of travel. What you might do say, Okay,
I want to wrap two hundred thousand dollars out of
this investment property. So I'll go to the bank and
(20:49):
I'll borrow it against against this investment property, and look
rather than the cash flop, rather than trying to live
off or fund my retirement or my travel by by
spending the one hundred or two hundred dollars a week
that this investment property as is currently paying you, then
saying do you know what I'm going to I'm going
to just borrow the two hundred thousand dollars. I won't
(21:10):
get that cash flow anymore, but the rent will will
pay that, and then you have for release that you can.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
Go turn into a neutral investment income will, but.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Releasing the equity up front.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I've never considered that. That's a really open I can
see the validity in that.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
You have suddenly just stepped up to Qunard's que Queen Elizabeth.
Haven't you all with the Queen Victoria for your next cross? Hey, Craig, look,
while we've got here, what would your advice be to
younger people?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Then?
Speaker 5 (21:42):
I mean, I appreciate you. Actually, that's an interesting thought
that Ed's offered you on. In fact, I get the feeling,
and we're going to explore that a bit further after
we've hung up. But what advice would you give to
a younger person who's looking at property investment? Would you
be like, oh, look, games changed made. I don't know
what I'd tell you.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
No, definitely not so. I bought my first house at
twenty one. I'm sixty or pretty close to bought my
first property in Papamoa when I was twenty one years
old for eighty four thousand dollars. Yeah, Pieter crap house,
but on a really large section. And just I had
(22:20):
great advice to my mum. My mother was always like
a it was like she was the oracle, you know,
and just kept on, you know, renovating properties, buying another property,
renovated property, buy another property.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
So you'd still get into it, just get into it.
But maybe the equation that we give God yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But I mean you can always get flatmates. And people
forget about this. It's like they think this is all
the repayments all on them. No, it's not. If he
buys the bitter and cracky house somewhere, it's definitely going
to go down to the value over ten years and
get some flatmates and then help them pay the mortgage
and just go for it. Don't be afraid of as
(23:02):
my mum said to me, yeah, take some take zeros
off the endine think think of it as yeah, a
thousand bucks instead of a hundred thousand bucks.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Yeah that's yeah, okay, no good stuff. I mean, yeah, hey,
thanks for you. Court Craig and yeah, and Ed, thank
you for your advice for Craig. They're not specialized, not
personalized financial advice. Yes, that's right, that's right. We've got
to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
But obviously I'm not sure enough it's just going to
do something done. But it's like I'm going to look
into that. That sounds like something well worth thinking about.
So yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Ed, Yeah, don't worries, Craig. Good, Yeah, cheers, Thanks Greag.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I like the idea of just if you take it
out one hundred thousand dollars ortgage or a billion dollar
orgage just takes some zeros off thinking.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
Actually, I mean, I can imagine there are a lot of
people if they are one hundred percent in equity and
they're they're getting the rent per week, and that's all
very nice, but yeah, if they look if you know,
you're in retirement age and you want to release some capital,
as long as it washes its face on the on
the debt you suddenly have taken out, it does feel
without specific financial advice. Ed mcnuh.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, Well, the other thing that you possibly could do
is rather than taking out least and I've just pulled
the two hundred thousand dollars figure out of thin air,
but it could be whatever you want to do. The
other thing you might do is, instead of taking it
out all at once, setting it up as a revolving credit,
or having the money in what's called an offset account,
which is basically the bank said, look, yep, we'll lend
(24:29):
you two hundred K, but if you don't take it
all out straight away, then you don't have to pay
any interest on it. And so typically that might happen
in someone who is similar to Craig's situation because he's
not sixty five yet and so he's not getting the
Kiwi superannuation, and so if he's thinking, yeah, but I
want to go off on some nice holidays or I
want to slow down work, that might be one idea
(24:51):
without having to sell the property straight away, and then
he might still be able.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
To hold it intenative to selling it, and you're still
keeping it. You want to pass something on maybe to
when you go of course yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Or the other thing that people typically might do in
Crag situation, because he's got lots of boatloads of equity
in that property, is just consider whether the property he's
currently got.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
Has the best yield.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
So if you look at the average property in New Zealand,
gross yields about four and a half percent. That's if
you're investing in something like a house. But let's say
he's like, you know what, I just want these properties
to pay me an income. Now, then you might sell
that and purchase something that has a gross yield of
say six or seven percent. Now that might be something
like student accommodation or a boarding house or a multi
(25:36):
unit apartment or something along those lines, something that's got
multiple sources of income. Typically those have high yields, and
so that's those are the sorts of properties that people
who are a little older and want to live off
the cash flow tend to think of good investments.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Good stuff. I think Craig was hanging on the line there.
I think he's taking notes, although it's not specific financial
advice Craig, which he's acknowledged. We do like to repeat
that disclaimer because we do want people to be aware
of that. By the way, just before we go to
the break, which is a bit late doing, but naughty me,
we joked about eggnog. Somebody did send me through a
(26:11):
recipe for eggnog. Courtesy of Tony Astell, I love it,
and you know what, God, it's boozy, he said. Do
you want to hear what it is? I'll send it
to you as well. It's two leaders of French vanilla
ice cream. Okay, okay, hold on, hold on, this is
for more than one, not just for you, two leaders
of French vanilla ice cream. Twelve whole eggs okay, so
(26:34):
this is obviously for a party between half and a
whole teaspoon of nutmeg. Okay, there's only one more ingredient
and one bottle of whiskey. That and you blend it
all together with an electric mixer. Best to do it
in two batches, served cold and shortly after making it,
(26:54):
and if it's served later in the day, just give
it a shape before pouring. That is Tony Astell's the
recipe that he has provided on news Talk, said, b
I can't remember which show he would have been on
when he gave that, but it's Tony ast I love it.
I love it. Just yeah, there you go, hey, break
time back at the moment News talksz'd be with Tim
Bebridge and let's take some more calls with Ed McKnight. We'
(27:15):
we are discussing whether the model for investment and property
has changed or is different, or what of the differences are.
And time is flying. I've been very not naughty, taking
a break a bit late there, but well, anyway, we'll
be talking to ken get a good.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
After the I don't know right to wear my two person.
My background is twenty six years in real estate. I
went to the university for three years and qualified professionally with
my aar my mri iron Z, and I have about
forty or fifty investment properties in my lifetime and I
(27:51):
myself had been making a terrible mistake until I actually
retired from active business. I hadn't bought residential properties and
they were I didn't realize that a dramatic difference and
the benefits of residential versus commercial. We changed our investments
(28:12):
from a commercial from a residential commercial about eleven years
ago now, and we were getting a very tiny net
return on the residential because you have to pay the rates, insurance,
there's no gust relief and all that sort of thing
with and of the Usually you don't get that longer
lease when resident In commercial, the tenants pay all the
(28:34):
outgoings in addition to the rent and you get GST
relief on everything and you usually get long leases. We
have a very've we've got very satisfactory release and we've
involved with some agencies associated with the government and that's wonderful.
But at the end of the day, we're getting a
(28:57):
return on our investor capital about eighteen point six percent.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
That is really good yield on your on your commercial properties.
What were you getting in residential only.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
A tiny fractions that the last residential we owned, we're
only netting about fourteen thousand, ky thousand dollars a year
on a property which at that time, this is going
back now about eleven or twelve years ago, we solved
for about six or seven hundred thousands I think for
(29:31):
memory at that time.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
And can I ask you as well, just before you
go on, what sort of commercial properties are you investing in?
Because there are there are lots of different types of
commercial property that you could So the one.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Thing you do have to be careful of is to
go into something which is secure. Who are unfortunately people
who were the best of intentions of retail in particular,
who are through not necessarily do anyone We don't go
out the back door, and you can be left carmby,
we can. But if you get a say, a medigal
(30:03):
practice or any any of the professions really or the.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Government or Okay, so we're talking about some office space
as well, and that's how you're getting those very very
high yields. But I think you make a really good
point that a lot of people forget about in terms
of the commercial that if you're buying a residential house
and renting out to a tenant, you're the one on
the hook for the rates and the maintenance and all
these kinds of things. In commercial typically those aren't paid
(30:29):
for by the tent. So it's interesting that that'sweaked out
for you.
Speaker 5 (30:32):
Yeah, this is.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
The thing, it's never ever met. I have all sorts
of people talking about investing money in property on the program,
and I'm for quite a while. So while I put
my tip benet in because I've been there and done that,
and I know the differences and if you're if you're
sensible and by the right type of commercial I particularly
(30:56):
good office space must also have a good size report.
Out building is over one hundred percent under the size report,
so it's absolutely wonderful. Yeah, we've got some car parks
as well, which which a good retember because you know
you which you know how's going. So when people, unless
(31:19):
they want to, are going to do and immediate resales
and look at from a point of view of a
quick turnover. But if they want to with my wife
and quite over beat and we don't. We don't need
any money and large sums. We just want a living
and there's a huge difference. And then in what you
get in your hand.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
You said, ken, you did say if you can, you've
got to take a few boxes, which is slightly more
because if you you know, if you do end up
without a tenant, as you saying, you're left holding the baby,
you've got to make sure you buy the right commercial property.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
That yeah, yep, we we We haven't had to spend
any real money on our property in the living years
we've now owned it, but the well and even so
you still gets to relief and everything in your right
life appreciation.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
As we appreciate the cook. I have to look, I
have to go go a break mate, but thank you
for your call. And actually it's something we might delve
into at some stage. And when though we generally focus
on residential property because the commercial property question is what's complex.
A bit more complex, I suspect than the residential one,
isn't it. But maybe if you get it right, not
a bad way to go.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, one hundred percent. The other thing is that lots
of us are used to buying houses, right, because the
first thing you do is the first time buy you
go and buy a house if you can. Whereas with
commercial there are lots of different types, then you do
have to be a bit careful. I want if you
go on trade me or one roof one of the
most interesting things to do is look at commercial properties
that are currently available for rent and sort them by
(32:51):
the listings that have been on for the longest. There
are a lot of retail commercial properties that I've been
keeping an eye on, especially in some places like Hamilton,
which haven't had a tenant for five years. And so
that's why you kind of adds a bit of color
to ken saying, hey, you want to go after properties
and officers that work for government or for doctors and lawyers.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
Yeah, Whereas if you're own a commercial property on say
Remero Road, and you're leasing it to a surgeon, possibly
not a bad.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Well that's because that is the medical mile, right, So
that's full chocol I would say most of those.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Doctors own their own premises now, because well it would
be the smart way to go, wouldn't it. Anyway, Hey,
look we've got a bit off the topic and we're
a little bit late, so we've got to take a break.
It is seventeen minutes to five News Talks ED B,
News Talks dB with Tim Beverage. This is the one
Raidsha God, time has flown, Gosh, time has flown so
quickly with Ed McKnight just talking about with it. In fact,
I don't know how much we've dug into the question
(33:49):
around with how much property investments changed. But those two callers,
Craig and Ken one not you know, Craig a seasoned
investor listening to some nonspecific financial advice from you about
releasing some equity and his properties and how it's changed.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
But it's interesting just to your point about the non
specific financial advice, because I think a lot of people
don't really understand what does that disclaimer actually mean personalized
financial advice. So what that really says is sometimes people
listen to us on the radio gas bagging away and
they think that we're telling them this is what you
should go and do Craig with your your money, And
(34:26):
basically that's what that disclaims is. Hey, we're not saying
this is what you should go and do. You should
always go and talk to a financial advisor who can
look at your specific situation, because if you call up
and even if we gas bag with you for five minutes,
you know, we don't know your whole situation.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
It's actually good to flesh that out too, because it
is you know, when you see disclaimers internet specific financial
advice please are talking to you about. It's sort of
just whatever, but it is worth you do. Please, if
you've heard something that's a good idea, discuss it with
others and maybe use it as a starting point if
you want to think about things. But it's yeah, don't
(35:00):
just go Oh. I heard Ed mc knight say this
is a no brainer. Again, some people do that with
shep as they go. I heard that person said this
stock was a no brainer. So I brought it. I
bought bitcoin in nineteen ninety seven and I'm worth billions.
But that's very rare. Tim. Can you please ask your
guest if property investment is uneconomical, will that affect house
(35:23):
prices in the long term? Will less investment result in
a shortage in future and result in faster growth? In
other words, he's talking about change in supply. I guess yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I think he's saying, well, if people decide not to
invest anymore, is that kind of the question?
Speaker 5 (35:39):
Well, I'll read it again. If property investment is uneconomical,
will that affect house prices in the long term? Will
less investment result in a shortage in future and result
in faster growth?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Well, I'm not sure if I fully understood the question,
but I think.
Speaker 5 (35:53):
We're not going to invest because the the equation is crappy.
I think this is what he means. Less money is
going to go into property. Therefore supply will decrease. Therefore
the price will go up, because.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
We I see that sometimes starts happened. I mean, I
just pushed back on the idea that it's totally uneconomical.
I'm more of the view that property investing has changed.
Its changed in a number of different ways, some for
the goods, you know, some things benefit investors, some things
don't benefit investors, But ultimately for many people like I
think Craig would saying yeah, I'd still be going today
(36:25):
if I was a young lad starting out. But what
you do see and what we saw in the GFC
is the number of properties built or consented per month
absolutely crashed down because you couldn't borrow money to build
a house. That then created the big shortage, which ultimately
meant that from twenty twelve thirty twenty sixteen Auckland house
prices took off like a frog and a sock because
(36:46):
we weren't building as much. Now, one thing that has
changed and is different this time is we are still
consenting about three thousand properties per month in New Zealand.
So what we're even though the construction sector has taken
a hit, it took a hit from a very high base,
and we are still consenting the same number of bodies
that we were back in early twenty twenty twenty nineteen.
(37:09):
So I don't think this time we go through the
property cycle, we're going to have the same lack of
houses that we did coming out of the GFC.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
But we're consenting plenty of houses.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
As what you're saying, yeah, we don't have that same
factor in the mix that we had back then, Whereas
during the GFC, the number of properties being built absolutely crashed.
It was a national crisis because then house prices went
up too too fast.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
Actually, there's so much. We've even scratched the surface on
this topic, really, haven't we.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Because we started talking to the beautiful listeners who had
good things to talk about.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
We did, we did, indeed, and then we I mean,
we've even talked about what if there was a change
of government and policy. Oh my goodness, there's so much. Anyway,
we're going to be back with the Property of the
week is a gorgeous property with a strangely cheap RV
but which I don't think I believe because anyway, but
(38:02):
the property itself, if you like a new looking, good
just property with a pool and everything. We're going to
be talking about that afterwards. In just a moment, it's
nine and a half minutes to five News Talk sead.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Be the one roof property of the week on the
Weekend Collective.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
Yes, welcome back my guest ed McKnight and the one
roof property of the week. It's it's a fun one
because you can have a discussion about what you think
it's worth, but it is. It's in Flatbush, Monaco City
to Toscana drive. It's got five bedrooms, four bathroom, three
co garage. The house is five hundred and twenty one
(38:40):
square meters land of two point seven twenty seven hundred
square meters. The fun one is because the RV I
looked at it, I thought that, well, there's no way
because the RV it's obviously out of date. It says
there's an estimate of one point two million dollars for it.
But it is beautifully designed. It's got a lap pool,
(39:02):
it's got a sort of or ornamental pond deck, it's
got six meter high living living room ceiling. It's a
stunningly designed home. And ED and I have been discussing
what would it be worth? How do we describe it?
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Ed?
Speaker 5 (39:21):
Because well, is there modern?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
It's basically a new built I imagine this would be
the first person who ends up buying it would be
the first person living in it.
Speaker 5 (39:30):
Right does give that feeling, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (39:33):
And so that's why I expect that the RV seems
so low about I think you told me about one
point one bill. So typically, if you see a house
that looks like it's brand new, and the RV looks
like it's too good to be true, often it is
because the RV would have been set when there was
an older house on the site, or whether it was
a bere piece of land.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
To be fair, on the one roof side, it actually
says there is not enough data to provide an estimate
for this property. It says contact the agent so clearly.
But I sort of think it's got to be around
at least two and a half million, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
I would have expected to bout that. But it's interesting
when you do look at it and think, if this
wasn't a different part of Walkland, let's say it was
more central. You know, this could easily have a seven
eight nine in front of it, depending on the area.
And it just reminds you that you can buy some
really really nice houses in Auckland on the outskirts for
I'm not going to say a low price, but a
(40:25):
low word than would otherwise be the case.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
Yes, Indeed, to be honest, if you could get it
for what the you know, we tried to drag it
a value out of it. If you could get it
for anything under two million, you'd probably be getting yourself
an absolute bargain. But beautiful, beautiful house, isn't it funny?
It's the for me. It's the walk and wardrobe right
next to the butt. That's massive walk and wardrobe with
this glorious looking blue sort of tiled bathroom. And I
(40:49):
think I'd spent a lot of time in that bathroom,
just in the bath really.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Well, well, you've been telling me how much you love
your newly renovated bathroom at your place as well.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
Yeah, and yes, there's nothing like in your bathroom, isn't there? Hey, Ed,
Merry Christmas, Thank you so much for your parents. Is
this year on the sh and we'll look forward to
next year on you? I look forward to it, Tim,
She is right. We're up next with the Parents Squad
News Talks it Be for more from the weekend collective.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Listen live to News Talks it Be weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks Ed.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Bell Christmas.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
As the barnhead Snoopy, they're in his saves. He reached
more the trigger to blew it every day my eating
shoot will We'll never know?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
I wasn't the bells.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
From the village below?
Speaker 5 (00:47):
Yes, welcome back to the Weekend Collective. A little bit
of Snoopy is Christmas the Raw Guardsman. I think some
people think, oh, is that really the Royal Guardsman, you know,
the sort of official raw Guardsman. I think I think
it's the name of the band. In fact, I haven't
answered that question for myself. As I say it, I'm
almost starting to question that now, But I think the
band's name is the Royal Guardsman. But yes, and it's
(01:09):
nothing actually to do with necessarily the army. But anyway,
it's that's Snoopy's Christmas. My producer at Tyra is now
doing a fact check on that. She's going to probably
let me know if I've made some sort of silly statement,
which is my specialty at this time of the year.
You know, what the hell, this is the one roof
radio show Welcoming and we're going to have a chat
initially about Look, we've had tax changes, all sorts of
(01:34):
things that happened. We've had property we saw what would
happened with COVID, we've had expensive money, we've had cheap money,
and there's been changes to foreign buyers laws and for a while. Look,
the fundamental question we're going to explore this hour is
has the model for property investment fundamentally change? And when
(01:55):
I mean the model, maybe I mean also the expectations,
because maybe the model is sort of maybe it's unchanged.
But we're going to dig into it because I've had
plenty of get plenty of guests over the years who've
talked about, look, the property market doubles every eight or
ten years. Property market, Yeah, it's doubled every or ten years.
And I sort of think, well, actually that means exponential growth,
(02:18):
which at a point is going to be hard to
keep up with. And I've had a chat with a
few people who have said maybe that's changing. In fact,
that it may be up to thirty years before we
see a doubling in the growth. I don't know if
I knew I'd be in with every dollar in cent
I had in the property market, but you know, I'm
not anyway, someone who who well I'm not sure how
far he is up to his knees in property or
(02:40):
he is should it be is, but he's a resident
economist with Opus Partners, and he's with us for the
One roof radio show and his name is Ed McKnight.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Hang out to be here, Tim for my final radio
appearance of the year.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Very nice. Actually it's been quite We've had quite quite
a fun time this year, an't we.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
We certainly have. And I think I was on this
morning with Jack Tame talked about ignogous fundly because I
was saying to Jack, you know what, I'd really love
to try iced egnog. Now, my mum and I tried
to make this years ago, look pulled up the ingredient list,
realized it's actually a bit harder than it than you'd
think creating this stuff. So anyway, this year, I'm just
going to buy it from the local pharaoh and we'll
(03:21):
chuck the ice over that. And so that was my
little tip for Jack Tay before we started talking about it.
Interest rates or whatever we were talking about.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Oh, in fact, that's interesting. So you were on as
a sort of in your economist sort of thing, but
the thing you remember most about this morning's broadcast was eggnog.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Oh, it's because I said it in passing. Then Jack's
all of a sudden talking about it for about a
couple of minutes about whether you have it hot or
whether you have it cold, and what it's like. When
he was over in the States, he got quite into it.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Actually, Actually, now that you've mentioned it, I mean it's
a bit of a winter treat, really, isn't it. And
we inherit the Northern Hemisphere Christmas traditions traditions. Yeah, but
eggnog is it tastes like it's It doesn't taste like
it's as boozy as it is, but eggnog is really boozy.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Well, I think if you're buying it from the supermarket,
it comes what d unboost. That's exactly right. And so
if you do have a bit of a heavy poor
or heavy hand like b then yes, it cared become
quite boozy quite quickly. But sometimes that's the point as well.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
Yeah. Actually, if I'd thought ahead, I possibly would have
been a nice thing to bring for my guests to
sit here having a chat about property over an eggnog.
Maybe I have to think about that. Tomorrow. Are you're
getting yours from Pharaoh?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Are you?
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I just feel like I've let you down now term
I should have brought it or we could have had
a couple of shot glasses, not shot glasses, a couple
of nice glasses do it well?
Speaker 5 (04:41):
No, we would have just pretended it was non alcoholic
and gone from them. People would have just had to
judge from our dominia where what was the truth? Anyway?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Um?
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Now, but it's even framing the question is it's a
question of semantics, isn't it? Around? You know, it has
the model for property investment fundamentally changed. As we know
first time buyers have been jumping in because you know,
we've seen property prices ease, it's been what would be
described as a buyers market, but we still haven't Property
(05:13):
is still expensive. It's not you know, it's not cheap.
And the expectations of investors to me now would be
quite different to what they might have been even just
a handful of years ago. But it's certainly different to
maybe ten years ago. Has the model for investing or
(05:35):
the expectations how would you frame the question? Actually?
Speaker 1 (05:38):
First, well, I suppose the question is do you still
expect that house price is going to keep increasing at
the rates they have over the last thirty years. Are
they going to continue to double every ten years. One
thing that's really important to point out is that over
the last fifteen odd years, actually we have seen a
slow down in the rate of doubling of house prices.
It has not been closer to the ten year mark
(06:01):
that a lot of people have talked about. It's been
more like twelve to fifteen years, depending on which area
of the country you're in. So even this idea of
property prices doubling over the last ten years, actually we
have not seen that consistently. Funnily enough, we actually back
in the eighties we had house prices at one point
doubling every four years because inflation was so high. So
(06:24):
if we're just talking about nominal house prices or the
price you actually see on the contract, so not adjusting
for inflation, sometimes it's been a hell of a lot quicker.
But we have seen over the last thirty to fifty
years are slow down in house price increases. They've still
been fast, investors have still made a lot of money,
(06:44):
but there has been a somewhat of a slowdown. One
thing that could be quite interesting and useful. As we're
having this conversation, Tim, is the rule of seventy two.
Have you heard of the rule of seventy two?
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Ummm, I should say yes, because you might have mentioned
this before, but I haven't double eight, haven't heard of it?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
This is it oblique twice to say that I not.
So the rule of seventy two is really useful because
this is a way of figuring out how fast it
takes for something to double. So let's say that house
prices went up by ten percent. So what you would
do is go seventy two divided by ten, So house
prices will double in seven point two years. Right, Why
(07:27):
do we say seventy seventy two is the magic number?
With the rule of seventy two? You see, it's kind
of as well.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
But the rule, it's just sorry explained to me. It
start again, so I'll start again. Start pretend I'm even
pretend I'm an absolute numpty. Okay, that's I don't know
how hard that is, but let's go.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It's totally fine. So if we think about house prices,
will any sort of asset doubling. There's this kind of
mathematical thing about the number seventy two that it helps
us to figure out how fast things double over a
certain period. So if we think about house prices right roughly,
they've gone up by about seven percent per year, So
you go seventy two divided by seven. It's a little
(08:07):
over ten, right, So if house prices go up by
on average seven percent a year, there we go ten
years roughly, okay. And so the reason that's quite useful
in this conversation is it can help us do the
maths really quickly. So you were saying in your introduction
that maybe house prices might double every twenty five to
(08:27):
thirty years. So if we take seventy two, we divide
it by twenty five, that would mean that house prices
would be going up on average about two point nine percent,
And so you can do the math again. It's just
this is a good test to say, are we in
a kind of ballpark or very very quickly? You know what,
do you how fast you think house prices might go up?
(08:49):
That gives you the doubling time really quickly?
Speaker 5 (08:52):
Okay. Actually, just there's lots to dig in there by
the way, you can join the conversation anytime if you
we'd love to hear from you on at eight one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. Do you think here's a
really simple way putting it. Has the game changed when
it comes to what you expect when you're investing in
a property, what you can expect back And I would
(09:14):
refer to the days when people would buy a property
that'd liver I mean, leverage was the magic thing. Probably
still as of course, but the rent used to cover
the costy mortgage. Those days probably unless you've really got
a lot of equity in it, are gone. So yeah,
we'd love your cause on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. Well,
that's let's get back to that.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
The r all of seventy two. So using that you said
twenty five to thirty years is potentially that house prices
might double. So that would mean that house prices would
be going up on average somewhere between two point four
to two point nine percent per year. Now, the reason
I bring that up is you can just stress test
that and say does that sound reasonable or not? To me,
that sounds a little bit light, because household incomes tend
(09:56):
to go up by something about three and a half
to three and a half percent to four percent per
year on average, So i'd expect something close sort of
four to five percent. Now, if we're thinking about the
time to double, that would be kind of about fifteen
to eighteen years. So yes, I don't think that it's
going to be house prices doubling every ten years, but
(10:16):
it hasn't been for the last fifteen years, and i'd
expect it to be a bit slower. Fifteen to fifteen
years sounds right to me.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
It's also the reason that I would have heard I'll
tell you what, I probably was hearing that prediction even
just a year ago, without you know, quoting any particular experts.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Doubling every ten years.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Yeah, but I wonder is that because people may have
been looking at remember when it went nuts with the
cheap money. Yeah, so if you were to pick that
as your peak, that you could probably find in a
number where it was doubling a lot quicker. But of
course we've seen it since the peak tail offs somewhat.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
It does depend on at what point do you start
measuring it, right, Like, if you did buy an no
event between twenty one where house prices were out their highest,
it could take you much longer than that, because, first
of all, we've got to recover back up. I think
at the moment was still about sixteen percent fifteen percent
down depending on the data you look at. So first
you'd have to recover that before you get any increases
(11:12):
further on that.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
Yeah, Actually, the other thing is okay, talking about how
household income salaries, et cetera. Going up at say three
three and a half percent or something, is still the
ability to or the house price growth rate? Does that
mean that people's deposits as well? Because the amount of
(11:33):
equity that you need to accumulate. Does that mean that,
intuitively you're the amount that people can accumulate goes up
at that rate or is it harder?
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Well, it's obviously easy to save when your income goes up,
which is quite quite nice.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Yeah, But in terms of other things cost more anyway,
So are you able to save?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Oh, I understand what you mean. Well, funnily enough, a
lot of people don't feel this intuitively because things tend
to It's easy to see house prices or inflation, the
cost of living, household incomes. It's easy to see that
going up in a graph over ten, fifteen, twenty years
and say, look, there's the trend. But when you're living
at day to day. A lot of people say, to me,
(12:13):
well ed by income doesn't go up like clockwork three
three and a half percent per year. No it doesn't.
But over time you do tend to see that people's
incomes go up, but it might come and fits and starts.
Something that's quite surprising for people, though, is that generally speaking,
wages go up faster than inflation. And I once had
a financial advice it's saying to me, well, that means
(12:34):
that people are getting richer over time. Yes, we are
as a society. We are much richer today than we
were in the sixties, seventies, nineties, or even ten years ago. Now,
that has not been the case over the last few years,
where when inflation was running at about seven point two
percent seven point three percent, wages were not keeping up
with inflation at that point. Now things have turned around
(12:56):
and we are seeing wages go up at a faster
rate than inflation by most measures.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
It also feels that, I mean, there's a whole lot
of so many different angles to this New Zealand economy.
Doesn't feel necessarily that has taken a backward step in
terms of the sense of prosperity, that people might feel
as well that that game seems to have changed as well,
doesn't it. Oh yeah, oh yeah, this is good. Da,
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well this one, you know, this this recession that we've
been through, and you know, people talk about GDP, which
is basically the size of our economy. I tend to
like or prefer looking at GDP per capita because if
we've got a whole heap of people coming and immigrating
to New Zealand, well that could make the economy bigger.
But on a per person basis, that's what we all
care about because that's what we feel day to day.
(13:41):
And when we look at that measure, the size of
the economy per person, we see that this recession that
we've been through has been worse, worse, and more protracted.
It's god on longer than the GFC or the Asian
Financial Crisis. So yeah, this one feels pretty bad.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Right. We want your takes on this eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty text nine nine two. Let's kick it
off with Craig Gooda.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, guys, Yeah, it's a conversation you can keep on having.
I guess we're in a position where we've just subdivided
to sell another property because we just really couldn't how
would you put it, We couldn't make any capital return
on the property because it was still on the same title.
(14:28):
So we're selling the back property now as a subdivided lot.
Now I haven't seen like as a rental property that
you're really getting your head very far. And with the
current environment economically, it's probably the last five or six years,
(14:50):
it's been pretty stagnant, right, Well.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I wouldn't necessarily say over the last five to six,
but certainly over the last over the last four years,
it's been a bit of a tough time for property investors.
You know, since house prices started going down into twin
twenty one, they fell pretty sharply for eighteen months and
then have just been going sideways. So certainly even if
an investor bought at the start at twenty twenty one,
(15:13):
you know, they're holding on now they have been held
for five years. Yeah, they might not have seen their
house price go up, or they would have seen it
go up, but then they would have seen it come
down to the same level that they purchased that So
it probably doesn't surprise me that somebody like in your
position saying, well, how do we increase the value of
this property? And actually some division is one way to
do it. The other way, of course, is renovations or developing,
(15:37):
putting it if I'm not sure, is there is the
back section that you're selling? It's blank?
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
There's nothing on it?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
No? No, it has a dwelling on it. So I've
been renovating, buying and renovating properties through around the last
thirty years, so generally as a working doing work for
other people, but generally hanging on to a probably five
or six years and then selling them and sort of
you know, getting your you know, you're sort of putty
(16:05):
back out of that obviously, I mean you can them
to a more sense of property or a couple of properties.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
I see.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So you've got the current market has really really bucked
that trend of buying and selling every five to six years.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Well, it hasn't, hasn't, Like I mean, so the first
COVID lockdown was a great opportunity because it was like, Okay,
you're locked down, what are you going to do? So
we just renovated the house that we're in. Yeah, you've
got nothing else of there, guys, So let's talk into it.
But and that was sold okay in like twenty twenty three,
(16:43):
twenty twenty threads And yeah, we did okay out of it,
but probably not as well as you would expect for
the amount of brand new kitchen, brand new bathrooms, you know,
massive gx all sorts of the expenditure was probably more
than equal to the labor, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, that's one of the tough things, you know. I
was actually speaking a Peter wolf Camp and other news
what he'd be present the other day, and he was
saying sometimes and he was specifically an example of a
first home buyer. Sometimes a first home buyer will look
at or a home buyer would look at two villas
side by side, one renovated, one unrenovated, and think that's great.
I'll buy the one that's unrenovated. I'll do that up
(17:20):
and then I'll make all of this money. And then
they realize that the renovation costs and the labor if
they're painting things themselves, are doing things. Once you add
it all up, gosh, they should have just bought the
first property. But I think this is a really good
example to be LNS Craig of how property investment might
look going forward, which is that if you're going to
be buying existing properties with that thirty percent deposit, maybe
(17:42):
in order to get a head while house prices aren't
going up as fast. If that's what in fact actually happens,
then you might need to do things like somedividing or
developing or renovating to increase the value, especially if you've
got quite a short time window like you've got in
this situation. You know, five to six years is quite
a short period to be buying a property, you know,
(18:02):
maybe doing something to it, and then selling it five
to sixty later. Typically what I'm doing to investors, we're
talking kind of fifteen, seventeen to twenty years to get
that long term capital appreciation because you know, as we
say in this example, five to six years can be
pretty short and house prices can be very volatile.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Great, right, well, so how have are you still engaged
with property investing? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Significantly, Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, But we've sort of we're
the sort of people that we rent a property out
to somebody, and we really want them to your homes
and let them to take it over, and we're not
going to be sticking our noses pretty much.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
So how much equity? I mean, are you having to
subsidize rental things? You've been doing so long that you've
got enough equity where the rent is just ticking over
and it's just sitting.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
There, so we don't have we're one hundred percent equity,
So which is a nice place to be obviously not bad.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Yeah, actually that but that actually that is an interesting one, Craig,
because I do wonder whether that's there are a lot
of real sorry, a lot of investors. I mean eighty
of the rental stock in New Zealand. I gather roughly
around that number as investors, and many of them might
be a bit like you, where they've got significant equity
in the properties. Is that would that be your read
(19:24):
of it?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Still, I do believe there's a bit of that. I
also think though, that something that comes with that is
something that's not often discussed. It's like, okay, like you
you're doing so well, guys, you're around you know, you've
got a rental property and you're your mortgage free. The
reality of depends on the property, of course, Like we
have a property that's a large property that requires a
(19:49):
significant amount of maintenance. So by the time you pay
your tax on that and then you pay the maintenance.
You're not cracking it and put it that way, but
you are obviously hoping for that long term equity game.
But my question a little bit that the sort of
(20:10):
now we're getting a bit older, we wanted to free
out some capital, right and actually have a bit of
cash so we can do some trips overseas and do
different things. Ye are we better off to buy a
property with a with less equity in it? Does that
make a.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Difference, Well, it can do in some cases getting a
bit of a mortgage. What you might do in your
situation though, of course none of this is personalized financial advice.
You talk to an advisor. But one thing you might
consider is, okay, you want to go and do a
whole heap of travel. What you might do say, Okay,
I want to wrap two hundred thousand dollars out of
this investment property. So I'll go to the bank and
(20:49):
I'll borrow it against against this investment property, and look
rather than the cash flop, rather than trying to live
off or fund my retirement or my travel by by
spending the one hundred or two hundred dollars a week
that this investment property as is currently paying you, then
saying do you know what I'm going to I'm going
to just borrow the two hundred thousand dollars. I won't
(21:10):
get that cash flow anymore, but the rent will will
pay that, and then you have for release that you can.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
Go turn into a neutral investment income will, but.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Releasing the equity up front.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I've never considered that. That's a really open I can
see the validity in that.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
You have suddenly just stepped up to Qunard's que Queen Elizabeth.
Haven't you all with the Queen Victoria for your next cross? Hey, Craig, look,
while we've got here, what would your advice be to
younger people?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Then?
Speaker 5 (21:42):
I mean, I appreciate you. Actually, that's an interesting thought
that Ed's offered you on. In fact, I get the feeling,
and we're going to explore that a bit further after
we've hung up. But what advice would you give to
a younger person who's looking at property investment? Would you
be like, oh, look, games changed made. I don't know
what I'd tell you.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
No, definitely not so. I bought my first house at
twenty one. I'm sixty or pretty close to bought my
first property in Papamoa when I was twenty one years
old for eighty four thousand dollars. Yeah, Pieter crap house,
but on a really large section. And just I had
(22:20):
great advice to my mum. My mother was always like
a it was like she was the oracle, you know,
and just kept on, you know, renovating properties, buying another property,
renovated property, buy another property.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
So you'd still get into it, just get into it.
But maybe the equation that we give God yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But I mean you can always get flatmates. And people
forget about this. It's like they think this is all
the repayments all on them. No, it's not. If he
buys the bitter and cracky house somewhere, it's definitely going
to go down to the value over ten years and
get some flatmates and then help them pay the mortgage
and just go for it. Don't be afraid of as
(23:02):
my mum said to me, yeah, take some take zeros
off the endine think think of it as yeah, a
thousand bucks instead of a hundred thousand bucks.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Yeah that's yeah, okay, no good stuff. I mean, yeah, hey,
thanks for you. Court Craig and yeah, and Ed, thank
you for your advice for Craig. They're not specialized, not
personalized financial advice. Yes, that's right, that's right. We've got
to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
But obviously I'm not sure enough it's just going to
do something done. But it's like I'm going to look
into that. That sounds like something well worth thinking about.
So yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Ed, Yeah, don't worries, Craig. Good, Yeah, cheers, Thanks Greag.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I like the idea of just if you take it
out one hundred thousand dollars ortgage or a billion dollar
orgage just takes some zeros off thinking.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
Actually, I mean, I can imagine there are a lot of
people if they are one hundred percent in equity and
they're they're getting the rent per week, and that's all
very nice, but yeah, if they look if you know,
you're in retirement age and you want to release some capital,
as long as it washes its face on the on
the debt you suddenly have taken out, it does feel
without specific financial advice. Ed mcnuh.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, Well, the other thing that you possibly could do
is rather than taking out least and I've just pulled
the two hundred thousand dollars figure out of thin air,
but it could be whatever you want to do. The
other thing you might do is, instead of taking it
out all at once, setting it up as a revolving credit,
or having the money in what's called an offset account,
which is basically the bank said, look, yep, we'll lend
(24:29):
you two hundred K, but if you don't take it
all out straight away, then you don't have to pay
any interest on it. And so typically that might happen
in someone who is similar to Craig's situation because he's
not sixty five yet and so he's not getting the
Kiwi superannuation, and so if he's thinking, yeah, but I
want to go off on some nice holidays or I
want to slow down work, that might be one idea
(24:51):
without having to sell the property straight away, and then
he might still be able.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
To hold it intenative to selling it, and you're still
keeping it. You want to pass something on maybe to
when you go of course yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Or the other thing that people typically might do in
Crag situation, because he's got lots of boatloads of equity
in that property, is just consider whether the property he's
currently got.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
Has the best yield.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
So if you look at the average property in New Zealand,
gross yields about four and a half percent. That's if
you're investing in something like a house. But let's say
he's like, you know what, I just want these properties
to pay me an income. Now, then you might sell
that and purchase something that has a gross yield of
say six or seven percent. Now that might be something
like student accommodation or a boarding house or a multi
(25:36):
unit apartment or something along those lines, something that's got
multiple sources of income. Typically those have high yields, and
so that's those are the sorts of properties that people
who are a little older and want to live off
the cash flow tend to think of good investments.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Good stuff. I think Craig was hanging on the line there.
I think he's taking notes, although it's not specific financial
advice Craig, which he's acknowledged. We do like to repeat
that disclaimer because we do want people to be aware
of that. By the way, just before we go to
the break, which is a bit late doing, but naughty me,
we joked about eggnog. Somebody did send me through a
(26:11):
recipe for eggnog. Courtesy of Tony Astell, I love it,
and you know what, God, it's boozy, he said. Do
you want to hear what it is? I'll send it
to you as well. It's two leaders of French vanilla
ice cream. Okay, okay, hold on, hold on, this is
for more than one, not just for you, two leaders
of French vanilla ice cream. Twelve whole eggs okay, so
(26:34):
this is obviously for a party between half and a
whole teaspoon of nutmeg. Okay, there's only one more ingredient
and one bottle of whiskey. That and you blend it
all together with an electric mixer. Best to do it
in two batches, served cold and shortly after making it,
(26:54):
and if it's served later in the day, just give
it a shape before pouring. That is Tony Astell's the
recipe that he has provided on news Talk, said, b
I can't remember which show he would have been on
when he gave that, but it's Tony ast I love it.
I love it. Just yeah, there you go, hey, break
time back at the moment News talksz'd be with Tim
Bebridge and let's take some more calls with Ed McKnight. We'
(27:15):
we are discussing whether the model for investment and property
has changed or is different, or what of the differences are.
And time is flying. I've been very not naughty, taking
a break a bit late there, but well, anyway, we'll
be talking to ken get a good.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
After the I don't know right to wear my two person.
My background is twenty six years in real estate. I
went to the university for three years and qualified professionally with
my aar my mri iron Z, and I have about
forty or fifty investment properties in my lifetime and I
(27:51):
myself had been making a terrible mistake until I actually
retired from active business. I hadn't bought residential properties and
they were I didn't realize that a dramatic difference and
the benefits of residential versus commercial. We changed our investments
(28:12):
from a commercial from a residential commercial about eleven years
ago now, and we were getting a very tiny net
return on the residential because you have to pay the rates, insurance,
there's no gust relief and all that sort of thing
with and of the Usually you don't get that longer
lease when resident In commercial, the tenants pay all the
(28:34):
outgoings in addition to the rent and you get GST
relief on everything and you usually get long leases. We
have a very've we've got very satisfactory release and we've
involved with some agencies associated with the government and that's wonderful.
But at the end of the day, we're getting a
(28:57):
return on our investor capital about eighteen point six percent.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
That is really good yield on your on your commercial properties.
What were you getting in residential only.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
A tiny fractions that the last residential we owned, we're
only netting about fourteen thousand, ky thousand dollars a year
on a property which at that time, this is going
back now about eleven or twelve years ago, we solved
for about six or seven hundred thousands I think for
(29:31):
memory at that time.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
And can I ask you as well, just before you
go on, what sort of commercial properties are you investing in?
Because there are there are lots of different types of
commercial property that you could So the one.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Thing you do have to be careful of is to
go into something which is secure. Who are unfortunately people
who were the best of intentions of retail in particular,
who are through not necessarily do anyone We don't go
out the back door, and you can be left carmby,
we can. But if you get a say, a medigal
(30:03):
practice or any any of the professions really or the.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Government or Okay, so we're talking about some office space
as well, and that's how you're getting those very very
high yields. But I think you make a really good
point that a lot of people forget about in terms
of the commercial that if you're buying a residential house
and renting out to a tenant, you're the one on
the hook for the rates and the maintenance and all
these kinds of things. In commercial typically those aren't paid
(30:29):
for by the tent. So it's interesting that that'sweaked out
for you.
Speaker 5 (30:32):
Yeah, this is.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
The thing, it's never ever met. I have all sorts
of people talking about investing money in property on the program,
and I'm for quite a while. So while I put
my tip benet in because I've been there and done that,
and I know the differences and if you're if you're
sensible and by the right type of commercial I particularly
(30:56):
good office space must also have a good size report.
Out building is over one hundred percent under the size report,
so it's absolutely wonderful. Yeah, we've got some car parks
as well, which which a good retember because you know
you which you know how's going. So when people, unless
(31:19):
they want to, are going to do and immediate resales
and look at from a point of view of a
quick turnover. But if they want to with my wife
and quite over beat and we don't. We don't need
any money and large sums. We just want a living
and there's a huge difference. And then in what you
get in your hand.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
You said, ken, you did say if you can, you've
got to take a few boxes, which is slightly more
because if you you know, if you do end up
without a tenant, as you saying, you're left holding the baby,
you've got to make sure you buy the right commercial property.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
That yeah, yep, we we We haven't had to spend
any real money on our property in the living years
we've now owned it, but the well and even so
you still gets to relief and everything in your right
life appreciation.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
As we appreciate the cook. I have to look, I
have to go go a break mate, but thank you
for your call. And actually it's something we might delve
into at some stage. And when though we generally focus
on residential property because the commercial property question is what's complex.
A bit more complex, I suspect than the residential one,
isn't it. But maybe if you get it right, not
a bad way to go.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, one hundred percent. The other thing is that lots
of us are used to buying houses, right, because the
first thing you do is the first time buy you
go and buy a house if you can. Whereas with
commercial there are lots of different types, then you do
have to be a bit careful. I want if you
go on trade me or one roof one of the
most interesting things to do is look at commercial properties
that are currently available for rent and sort them by
(32:51):
the listings that have been on for the longest. There
are a lot of retail commercial properties that I've been
keeping an eye on, especially in some places like Hamilton,
which haven't had a tenant for five years. And so
that's why you kind of adds a bit of color
to ken saying, hey, you want to go after properties
and officers that work for government or for doctors and lawyers.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
Yeah, Whereas if you're own a commercial property on say
Remero Road, and you're leasing it to a surgeon, possibly
not a bad.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Well that's because that is the medical mile, right, So
that's full chocol I would say most of those.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Doctors own their own premises now, because well it would
be the smart way to go, wouldn't it. Anyway, Hey,
look we've got a bit off the topic and we're
a little bit late, so we've got to take a break.
It is seventeen minutes to five News Talks ED B,
News Talks dB with Tim Beverage. This is the one
Raidsha God, time has flown, Gosh, time has flown so
quickly with Ed McKnight just talking about with it. In fact,
I don't know how much we've dug into the question
(33:49):
around with how much property investments changed. But those two callers,
Craig and Ken one not you know, Craig a seasoned
investor listening to some nonspecific financial advice from you about
releasing some equity and his properties and how it's changed.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
But it's interesting just to your point about the non
specific financial advice, because I think a lot of people
don't really understand what does that disclaimer actually mean personalized
financial advice. So what that really says is sometimes people
listen to us on the radio gas bagging away and
they think that we're telling them this is what you
should go and do Craig with your your money, And
(34:26):
basically that's what that disclaims is. Hey, we're not saying
this is what you should go and do. You should
always go and talk to a financial advisor who can
look at your specific situation, because if you call up
and even if we gas bag with you for five minutes,
you know, we don't know your whole situation.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
It's actually good to flesh that out too, because it
is you know, when you see disclaimers internet specific financial
advice please are talking to you about. It's sort of
just whatever, but it is worth you do. Please, if
you've heard something that's a good idea, discuss it with
others and maybe use it as a starting point if
you want to think about things. But it's yeah, don't
(35:00):
just go Oh. I heard Ed mc knight say this
is a no brainer. Again, some people do that with
shep as they go. I heard that person said this
stock was a no brainer. So I brought it. I
bought bitcoin in nineteen ninety seven and I'm worth billions.
But that's very rare. Tim. Can you please ask your
guest if property investment is uneconomical, will that affect house
(35:23):
prices in the long term? Will less investment result in
a shortage in future and result in faster growth? In
other words, he's talking about change in supply. I guess yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I think he's saying, well, if people decide not to
invest anymore, is that kind of the question?
Speaker 5 (35:39):
Well, I'll read it again. If property investment is uneconomical,
will that affect house prices in the long term? Will
less investment result in a shortage in future and result
in faster growth?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Well, I'm not sure if I fully understood the question,
but I think.
Speaker 5 (35:53):
We're not going to invest because the the equation is crappy.
I think this is what he means. Less money is
going to go into property. Therefore supply will decrease. Therefore
the price will go up, because.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
We I see that sometimes starts happened. I mean, I
just pushed back on the idea that it's totally uneconomical.
I'm more of the view that property investing has changed.
Its changed in a number of different ways, some for
the goods, you know, some things benefit investors, some things
don't benefit investors, But ultimately for many people like I
think Craig would saying yeah, I'd still be going today
(36:25):
if I was a young lad starting out. But what
you do see and what we saw in the GFC
is the number of properties built or consented per month
absolutely crashed down because you couldn't borrow money to build
a house. That then created the big shortage, which ultimately
meant that from twenty twelve thirty twenty sixteen Auckland house
prices took off like a frog and a sock because
(36:46):
we weren't building as much. Now, one thing that has
changed and is different this time is we are still
consenting about three thousand properties per month in New Zealand.
So what we're even though the construction sector has taken
a hit, it took a hit from a very high base,
and we are still consenting the same number of bodies
that we were back in early twenty twenty twenty nineteen.
(37:09):
So I don't think this time we go through the
property cycle, we're going to have the same lack of
houses that we did coming out of the GFC.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
But we're consenting plenty of houses.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
As what you're saying, yeah, we don't have that same
factor in the mix that we had back then, Whereas
during the GFC, the number of properties being built absolutely crashed.
It was a national crisis because then house prices went
up too too fast.
Speaker 5 (37:34):
Actually, there's so much. We've even scratched the surface on
this topic, really, haven't we.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Because we started talking to the beautiful listeners who had
good things to talk about.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
We did, we did, indeed, and then we I mean,
we've even talked about what if there was a change
of government and policy. Oh my goodness, there's so much. Anyway,
we're going to be back with the Property of the
week is a gorgeous property with a strangely cheap RV
but which I don't think I believe because anyway, but
(38:02):
the property itself, if you like a new looking, good
just property with a pool and everything. We're going to
be talking about that afterwards. In just a moment, it's
nine and a half minutes to five News Talk sead.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Be the one roof property of the week on the
Weekend Collective.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
Yes, welcome back my guest ed McKnight and the one
roof property of the week. It's it's a fun one
because you can have a discussion about what you think
it's worth, but it is. It's in Flatbush, Monaco City
to Toscana drive. It's got five bedrooms, four bathroom, three
co garage. The house is five hundred and twenty one
(38:40):
square meters land of two point seven twenty seven hundred
square meters. The fun one is because the RV I
looked at it, I thought that, well, there's no way
because the RV it's obviously out of date. It says
there's an estimate of one point two million dollars for it.
But it is beautifully designed. It's got a lap pool,
(39:02):
it's got a sort of or ornamental pond deck, it's
got six meter high living living room ceiling. It's a
stunningly designed home. And ED and I have been discussing
what would it be worth? How do we describe it?
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Ed?
Speaker 5 (39:21):
Because well, is there modern?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
It's basically a new built I imagine this would be
the first person who ends up buying it would be
the first person living in it.
Speaker 5 (39:30):
Right does give that feeling, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (39:33):
And so that's why I expect that the RV seems
so low about I think you told me about one
point one bill. So typically, if you see a house
that looks like it's brand new, and the RV looks
like it's too good to be true, often it is
because the RV would have been set when there was
an older house on the site, or whether it was
a bere piece of land.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
To be fair, on the one roof side, it actually
says there is not enough data to provide an estimate
for this property. It says contact the agent so clearly.
But I sort of think it's got to be around
at least two and a half million, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
I would have expected to bout that. But it's interesting
when you do look at it and think, if this
wasn't a different part of Walkland, let's say it was
more central. You know, this could easily have a seven
eight nine in front of it, depending on the area.
And it just reminds you that you can buy some
really really nice houses in Auckland on the outskirts for
I'm not going to say a low price, but a
(40:25):
low word than would otherwise be the case.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
Yes, Indeed, to be honest, if you could get it
for what the you know, we tried to drag it
a value out of it. If you could get it
for anything under two million, you'd probably be getting yourself
an absolute bargain. But beautiful, beautiful house, isn't it funny?
It's the for me. It's the walk and wardrobe right
next to the butt. That's massive walk and wardrobe with
this glorious looking blue sort of tiled bathroom. And I
(40:49):
think I'd spent a lot of time in that bathroom,
just in the bath really.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Well, well, you've been telling me how much you love
your newly renovated bathroom at your place as well.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
Yeah, and yes, there's nothing like in your bathroom, isn't there? Hey, Ed,
Merry Christmas, Thank you so much for your parents. Is
this year on the sh and we'll look forward to
next year on you? I look forward to it, Tim,
She is right. We're up next with the Parents Squad
News Talks it Be for more from the weekend collective.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Listen live to News Talks it Be weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal: Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a brand new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-4 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.