November 2, 2025 • 40 mins
Matt Doocey joins Tim Beveridge on The Weekend Collective to discuss what has changed in the space of mental health over recent years, and where more work is needed.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
EDB and welcome back to the show. This is the
(00:46):
Weekend Collective. Well, welcome in, Welcome back, This is the
Weekend Collective and this is the Health Hub. Now, this
is where, of course we want your calls and participation
on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty And as I
said at the start of the show, we'd love you
to We've got a guest in this year who you're
you're probably going to be. This is your chance. He's
the Minister of Mental Health and I'm going to introduce
him in a moment, even though you know who it is.
(01:06):
But just before we do, before we get cracking for
this out, don't forget after five we've got smart Money
with Max Whitehead. But onto the Health Hub. We are
joined by in fact, I'm just going to cut to
the chase. He's the Minister of Mental Health and his
name is Matt Doocey and he's with us. Now, Matt,
how are you good?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Better now?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Chris car now audio slave, but yourself is the best
you can be. What I couldn't have asked for anything better.
Thank you for there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well we aim to please. We often get guests through
a little surprised when we play their song request because
they always think that they're the only ones who are
still listening to something. But there we go. Now, look,
there's lots of things we can talk about. We want
your cause on this on eight hundred and eighty ten
to eighty because the mental health portfolio is something that
Matt actually sought out because it's an issue that he's
(01:54):
passionate about. There are some things we're going to talk
about because there's a new AI platform which is a
bit different to the ones you might be used to.
It's called Groove, and it's about providing strategies for every
day men health issues, streets, slept the stress, sleep problems,
et cetera. And of course, you know, some people think,
oh Ai God is part of the problem, but you know,
AI's technology can be used for good or ill. So
(02:17):
we're gonna have a chat about that. But let's I
think first up, Matt, I know we sort of know
you because your minister, but we assume we do, but
maybe we don't that well. But anyway, you did seek
out this portfolio, didn't you.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, I came back to new Zealand in twenty thirteen,
after being on my oe, actually quite taken back at
the conversation we are having in this country on mental health.
For the positive. I mean, I had my own mental
health challenges as a teenager in the late eighties, and boy,
(02:50):
I did not feel I could talk about it. And
now we have got a younger generation hugely articulate, and
we've got people like Sir John Kerwin, Mike King, Jazz
Thornton really bursts that bubble where we've broken the barriers
stigma and discrimination. Yeah, we can do a lot more.
But I was like, wow, I want to be part
(03:10):
of this. I worked in mental health after starting to
address my own issues, I thought I want to get
into this field and help others. So I thought, well,
what's the next step for me? And I thought, well politics,
and I just think whatever political color of government. The
health minister Simmy and Brown, he's brilliant, but he's fighting
a lot of physical health issues as every other health minister.
(03:33):
And I thought time had come to have someone solely
focused on mental health in this country.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
What's it what's it been like between in the time
between decided to become a politician and now finding yourself
with your own portfolio minister, as Minister of mental health,
what has there will be a couple of things in
your head that instantly come to mind as to what
you've learned or impressions or I don't know, are there
(04:00):
hard lessons or what stands out to you about what
you've learned since undertaking this role.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Yeah, well, we are by nature politicians and we are political.
But actually, my experience of traveling the country and talking
mental health, be it an opposition or government, people want
a bipartisan approach, right, And so I set up New
Zealand's Parliament's first cross party Mental Health Group with Chloe
(04:27):
Strawbrick and Lewisa Wall at the time on the firm
belief that actually we can work bipartisan on this issue.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Actually, as you say that, I can't imagine it makes
so much sense and it sounds like the bleeding obvious,
because it does seem like one of those areas where
surely we have to be able to put our differences
aside that it can't be political. Of course we can
argue about resources for this and that. Yeah, but there
must be a huge overlap regardless of whether you're left
(04:56):
right up and down whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, very much so. I mean our first report we
produced in that cross party group was called zero Suicides
in New Zealand. And you know, naturally in an area
like suicide prevention, there is so much commonality and common
goals and we really came together for that. Our next
focus of work was around better access for young people
(05:22):
needing mental health support and again a lot of overlap
between the parties and it's really exciting. Chloe's step back
because she's now co leader of her party. I've had
to step aside because I'm the mental Health Minister now,
but the next generation of MPs have come through and
taken up the leadership and that group and they're actively
(05:42):
working on shared goals and that's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
How much of the challenge around mental health and New
Zealand is about that cultural shift? Like you can put
resources into X, Y and Z and there will always
be a demand on resources and infrastructure and personnel and
all that sort of thing. But how much difference has
it made do you think the fact that New Zealanders
I think are much more likely to be able to
feel they can talk to someone about their mental health.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, we're destigmatizing it I mean, I think generationally we've
had a massive shift, and I think we should at
times celebrate that. But I suppose what keeps me up
at night is now we've created a culture where more
people can take that leap of faith and open us
for help. I think at times that support is not there.
(06:29):
And I say support as a not just treatment that's
a part of it, but support as an early intervention
and prevention. And so we've rarely got to catch up
quick making sure when people do reach out for help
that that time he support is there.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Actually not what you mean. I think we talked about
this off air. You mentioned it as well, but John
Kerwin as one of the names if I look back
to when he started to talk about his mental health,
he was kind of a pioneer and being open about it,
wasn't he When I think of how because that would
go back quite a few years, wouldn't it that Kerwin
started to share his battles very.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Much so, and you know, no more so in a
country like New Zealand, you know, very rural, very macho,
and to think that you had an all black at
the time he was smashing it out worldwide. He was
under the duvet crying, and he's been very open thinking
about jumping out of a hotel window on the third floor.
(07:25):
So now we've got someone that you know, we looked
up to, we related to, and when he spoke out, boy,
my viewers did open up that conversation in the hard
to reach areas of men in rural New Zealand. And
I think he's a game changer. Has Mike King. Jazz
Thornton is that next generation. She goes into schools and
(07:47):
just hundreds of young people listen to her and she
gives that voice of hope about been there before. It's
that lived experience. You've been there, you've got through, and
you're not there to tell someone what to do, but
just open up and share your experience of hope and
light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
By the way, before we continue with the conversation, I
usually do this as a matter of when any themes
come up around mental health, self harm and all those
sorts of things. I always want to remind you that
if you are listening, and you don't have to be
calling us. If you are were listening and you're battling
with something, the initiative that I will point you towards
and I imagine that Matt would back this up. Is
the one seven three seven initiative. You can go literally,
(08:27):
you can call one seven three seven, you can text
one seven three seven, or you can just google one
seven three seven and it'll pop up. The first thing
you'll get will be the one seven three seven Digital Hub,
and someone will connect with you, even if they don't
get there straight away. One seven three seven. It is, actually, Matt,
quite an amazing initiative, isn't it? Just have that one
(08:49):
source of connection for people?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, very much.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
So you can call, text, as you say, contact one
seven three seven twenty four seven, seven days a week,
talk to a trained counselor also for the younger ones,
you've got youth line very similar, message, text, chat, email, call.
You know, those tallyhealth lines are there for people in
(09:13):
the time of distress.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Ye.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Now, as I said, Matt Doocey's with us. He's a
Minister of mental Health taking your cause. So let's just
get into it. We've got lots week and talk about yeah,
Matt in between the calls, but let's take some calls.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Pro Hello, Hi, how are you guys?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Good?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Thanks?
Speaker 5 (09:31):
That's good. My question is on a specific mental health disorder,
anorex here, And I know that the national government gave
some funding to support EnEx here this year, and I
was just wondering, Matt, if you could tell me if
there's any kind of checks and balances on where that
money is spent and if there's any research or any
(09:53):
funding going into early detection for narex here.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, thanks for that question, pro And look, I think
you've hit the nail on the head. It is important
in an area like eating disorders, we get in a
lot earlier and we support people a lot earlier as well.
You know, eating disorders can be preventable and treatable. I
(10:18):
was quite amazed that we were working off an eating
disorder strategy that was sixteen years old, and we think
of all the developments at eating disorders and so yet
we tipped in a bit more money, went from nineteen
million a year up to twenty three. But let's be
clear that that's just a drop in the ocean. That's
(10:38):
a starting point for me, and I think that that
for me, increase was not only to invest into some
of our treatment services around the country that are underinvested in,
but actually to invest more in our community and NGO
organizations who are at the front line already delivering and
get in a lot earlier, as you say.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Through yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I have personal through
with it with my daughter, and she was only I
mean you could probably say she got diagnosed within a
month of really kind of getting in her ex here.
And it's been a two year so far, two year
kind of battel to get her right. Well not even
a battle. She's been amazing, but you know, it's just
(11:20):
takes that long to recover fully. And so that early detection,
you know, I said, the kid going kind of undiagnosed
for six months, then the years of you know, of
recovery it takes is it's just huge, and it's incredibly expensive.
We're super lucky to get some family help, but you know,
we were spending nearly five hundred dollars a week on
psychiatrists and any sort of coaches for her at the start,
(11:43):
and I just know there's just so many families out
there that could not afford that. So getting some funding
early and looking at not even alternative but just other
ways that you can fund through kind of There's a
group called Redefined Coaching who supply any disorder coaches for
anyone who's got any disorder, and gosh, you know the
(12:04):
Bailey whod my daughter's got has absolutely saved her life.
And so you know there's any way that we could
help funds something like that would be yeah great?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Sorry, now, Pro, Look, you know this stuffs close to home.
You know, I can understand how you know they're just
talking about these things can be really tough. Pro. So
I think I think the fact that you've called to
talk to us about this, good on.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
You, Thank you. And the last tige I've got is
actually a Guinness Word Record attempt HP thing in Rolliston
on the twenty ninth of November called Hits for Hope
and all money raised is going into mental health organizations.
So another one that you could look at.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Good stuff? Hey, Pro, thanks thanks for calling good stuff. Yeah,
when you're close to this stuff, it takes a bit
of courage to pick up the phone on you know,
give us a call on nationwide radio, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yeah, Yeah, thanks for doing that, Pro, And I hope
your your daughter's doing well and recovering. And in fact
also should have mentioned to him that out of that
four million dollars, part of that money is going into
better support for parents and family, because we do know
quite often parents and family struggle at times more than
(13:13):
the individual because they they're really concerned and often there's
no support for them.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Can you remind me now there was something initiative that
was announced a while ago about counseling for teenagers and
school kids and things that I can't remember the details
around it, but it was about a whole lot of
money to provide a truckload of counseling sessions.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Oh, the gum Boot Friday progress.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Does that time to issues that if you had a
teenager with an eating disorders, is that time to any
of that or is that more specialist on a different,
different sort of plane.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Well, it can cover that. I mean at times eating
disorders can be very specialist if the individuals needed to
get support at a treatment end. But what we did
do is fun gum boot Friday six million dollars a year.
They've been able to take a third more counselors on board,
so they've got seven hundred now right across the country.
(14:06):
They quite often when young people reach out through their platform,
see someone within forty eight hours and that will be
a range of issues including eating disorders as well.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Right, we're taking your cause with Matt doc he as
Minister of Mental Health. Lots to talk about and if
you want to give us a call and ask Mat
a question about some area of mental health that you're
concerned about, or offer your experience. But the broader question is,
and Matt touched on this earlier on is that when
he was younger and was dealing with his issues that
you know, it wasn't something we felt comfortable talking about.
(14:39):
But with the efforts of public figures like John Kerwin
and jas Thornton that we are much better at that.
Do you feel more comfortable talking about your mental health?
I would argue that plainly we are, but do we
still do you feel we've got a way to go?
I mean an example of how we are willing to
talk about it is the call you've just heard from Prue. Right,
(15:01):
we'll be back in just a moment, taking your course.
Eight hundred eighty ten eighty. It's twenty one and a
half past four. Yes, Newstalks, it'd be. I've got the
Minister for Mental Health, Matt Doocey's with us taking your
calls on. Look, anything you want to talk about within
Matt's remedies. Happy to take your calls on things, and Jane,
good afternoon.
Speaker 6 (15:21):
Good afternoon. This is a little bit different. But my
husband has had a traumatic brain injury for eleven years
from an accident, and I have been funded by ACC
to care for him all this time. In June this
year I had to go into hospital and I had
(15:45):
a cancer operation. ACC have not paid me one cent
since then. I have done everything I can to advise
from that, I'm capable of looking after my husband, which
I am and which I am doing. But nobody will listen.
And this is causing me a huge amount of stress.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Oh that, Why are they? Why they said that? Why?
Why have they?
Speaker 6 (16:12):
Have they given you any ex any Some of the
people that I've applied to have said that they need
the decline letter. I've never had a decline letter. They
just simply stopped paying.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Okay, I'm guessing this probably a Minister of ACC thing.
But can you help with us, Matt, any thoughts.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
First to say, just to acknowledge the pressure you're under
and also caring for someone who's had a brain injury. Actually,
when you look at my mental health issues, that that
was caused by a very bad car accident where I
was throwing out the back windscreen, and when I was discharged,
I had half a dozen follow ups. No one said,
(16:53):
you know, they're all about broken bones. None he said,
I've had a hell of a nock to the head.
So now we do know the relationship between brain injuries
and mental health is as well. What were I wouldn't
courage you to do. I'm actually your former ACC ministers,
so ACC is very clear around its entitlements. I would
encourage you to either reach out to your local MP
(17:15):
who can advocate on your behalf or also ACC has
a range of free advocates you can engage with. And
also there is a complaints process with fear Way. I
think there's three options you could work through what I have.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
I have reached out to the local MP who wasn't interested,
and I have reached out to try and get an advocate,
but I've been told that they the they're closed because
they have so many backlogs that they're not taking on
(17:51):
any new new people. I have done absolutely everything, and
I'm not allowed to speak to the ACC person that
I have dealt with because I've attacted them too often.
And so now when I get on the phone, they
ask who I am, they cut me off.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Okay, that sounds problematic because we've got any I mean
it's not your portfolio map. But what else? What other advice?
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I mean quite often in Canterbury people go down to
community Law and get legal advice as well, So I
do know with ACC there's a range of venues available
for people to explore them.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Sorry, we can't really help you with that one, Jane,
if you wanted to contact the minister, I mean, how
would you write to the minister about this? Jane was
saying that I'm trying to get my head around why
ACC wouldn't talk to her. But anyway, if you want
to get in touch with the minister.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, I mean ministers are very accessible through their email addresses.
You can find emails online and quite often people do
write to me as a mental health minister and they
might say a bit concerned about someone I'm supporting and
the care they're getting and things like that.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So you know there are the resources to see read
those emails and get that action.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, because quite often under your portfolio, your departments are
officials are advising you on responses to letters as well,
and you know that that is our role as local
MPs and ministers as well. Where we're you know, we're
pub publicly available, we're elected, and people do reach.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Out, so that in the minister face he says, that's
Scott Simpson, that's right, Okay, I can think that's one
of the questions people would have. Hey, thank you for
your call to Jane. One of the questions people would
have is I got it matter. If I thought I
was writing to a minister, I'd be thinking, I'm not
going to read it. No one's going to read it.
It's going to disappear into this big inbox from hell.
(19:49):
I guess because I work in the public eye and
you know, sometimes you just can't deal with the emails
you get. And I think, well, if you're a minister,
what's that like?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, you could remember though if you look at say
ACC for example, independent Crown Entity, even Health New Zealand.
I mean quite obviously we can't intervene in someone's care,
but we can advise on process or pathways forward or
ask the institution such as Health New Zealand to have
(20:17):
a look at the case and see if there's anything
they can do better.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
How I mean, and a local MP should get onto
this stuf, shouldn't they as well?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Look, I enjoy being a local MP on coming up
in my twelfth year, which is your what's your market,
Edy Caigra, Yeah, and I enjoy it. I've got two offices,
I'm out and about. I've got young kids. You know,
we've got a family life in the community. We serve
and look to be honest sometimes. Yet you can have
(20:49):
a big week as a minister during a sitting block
in Parliament and you come home on a Thursday night,
You've got your constituent appointments on the Friday, your first appointment.
You're helping a constituent. It might be the biggest issue
in the grand scheme of things, but for that individual
it's very important. Quite often when they come to your
(21:10):
office have had a lot of doors closed on them
and you're kind of the last option available and you
can make a real difference in people's lives and sometimes
I find that the most rewarding part of my job.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
That's why we've been talking about parliamentary systems in another
part of the show, and a lot of people do
bemoan that they would like more MPs who are connected
to an electorate rather than the listing thing. But that's
a whole different discussion. We're not going to go there
with you, even though I just about did. Let's take
some more calls, Yvonne.
Speaker 7 (21:39):
Hello, Oh hello?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Is this that I'm Tim? But you've got Matt listening
to you right now?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
HI have on?
Speaker 7 (21:46):
Yeah, I'd like to speak to you, Matt. Thank you
very much for giving us this opportunity to talk to you.
We have probably you may or may not be aware,
but we have communicated in the past, and I have
(22:07):
a question for you. Would you choose another party to
align to or leaves parliament and build a mental health
foundation because under your direction, mental health is offering us
so much more. You've done so well, Matt. And because
(22:32):
you are, because you're in National and you represent them
to a lot of people, they perhaps get this attitude
that mental health is a waste of time or no
good Evan, are.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You saying that that Your impression is that National is
not the feel good party of mental health, but Matt
is the feel good guy.
Speaker 7 (22:59):
Yeah, well it has to feel good party to make
for mental health. Because he've done so well, why shouldn't
he be attached to a parliamentary.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
You'd like him to be able to continue his work
even if he gets voted out. What is that what
you're saying?
Speaker 7 (23:16):
Es definitely, you know he's possibly got enough people around
him and earning enough money to create a mental health
foundation for.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
New zealm Okay, thank you. What would you like to
have a fund there?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
That's lovely, Thanks Yvonne. And look, let's be very clear.
I've always been clear, been New Zealand's first mental health minister.
Doesn't it doesn't make a difference giving someone a job title.
And I'm only part of the system, right. So politics
is an important part of the system because that's where
we debate the best ideas to go forward and not
(23:53):
less be candid. Anyone can have the best ideas and
also you know, thinking about budgetary decisions as well. But
you know, I think where you're goingon is that what
the real focus has been on is people with lived
experience and elevating them actually, because what we do know
is people with lived experience of engaging in mental health
(24:13):
services is not about shame or stigma anymore. It's about
them helping others and that's the stuff we've been able
to support. But it's actually backing the work already happening
in the sector in the community.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Hey, I'm sure Matt appreciate your call, and so do
I thank you very much. Hey, Matt, So we're talking
about the stigma before and how we are better at it.
I've got a I don't mean this to sound like
a I sometimes ask dumb questions and I hope they're
not as dumb as I think. We know that the
rural sector has had issues with and continues to have
(24:46):
issues with mental health. Does it make it again? This
is where I think it's Maybe it's a trivial question
because it's not all about money and things like that.
But does the fact that at the moment through Fonterra
and there's been some positive news for farmers does that
help with and we're are we at with the stigma
within people and within the rural sector in terms of
(25:07):
accessing mental health?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, I think we've come a long way, but it's
still a barrier for some. Look. I still hear stories
where I live in North Canterbury where it's the wife
still having to ring the GP practice to make an appointment,
whether it be physical or mental health, because the bloke
just doesn't want to acknowledge the issue or do anything
(25:30):
about it. So we've got a lot more to do
as well. And I think, you know, it is about
ensuring that people feel comfortable in reaching out and they
do know that support is there. But what we do
know in mental health is quite often that support needs
to be more localized. People want to see themselves in
(25:51):
the service that they're reaching out to, they want to
trust it. For example, with farmers, we funded real support
trusts because what we do know is that in a
time and need, having a farmer on farm to your
farm to have a chat about what's going on for
you breaks down the barriers and actually supports those to
(26:13):
reach out and get more help.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
With farmers seeking help, is it also just I mean,
if you're they're busy, that's the only way to put it.
I wonder how much of it is stigma and how
much of us Look, I just haven't got time for
that right now. You know, I've got carving to do,
or you know, I've got whatever jobs you've got. You're
flat out and it's like I've got time to go
to the bloody doctor. I mean, is there a little
(26:36):
bit of that in it as well? Just hard working
farmers no time to see the doctor.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Oh potentially, but I would say probably there's a lot
of connection between the two. And maybe people say I'm
too busy because of the stigma, still worried about potentially
what other people will think of them, or quite candidly
been afraid about understanding what might happen when you unpack
the issue that might be driving some of your distress
(27:02):
as well. And look, we've got a real challenge Zealand
with a significant amount of the population being in rural
and remote communities in New Zealand as well. But I
just think there's huge opportunities and look, you know we've
talked about the AI app technology has the ability to
really break down some of those barriers further and you
(27:25):
know of engage people who are using sort of tally
health on farm and it really allows them to at
a time suitable and a location suitable to them to
actually reach out and get some professional support.
Speaker 6 (27:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Actually, we're going to we might have a chat about
that AI side of things after the break, But if
you've got any questions for Matt Doucy, Minister of Mental Health,
then give us a call at eight one hundred and
eighty ten eighty as I say, text nine to two
as well. Sorry nine two nine two abbreviating it. We'll
be back in just a moment. It's twenty two minutes
to five News Talk said b Yes, welcome back with
Matt Dooc, Minister of Mental Health. Actually, Matt, just before
(28:02):
the break, we're talking about the well and I introduced
the show and we haven't gone onto it yet. The
new AI platform called Groove, So of course, you know,
let's just put it to one side. You know, social
media and technology can be a cause of many people's
mental health problems, but there are also good uses of it.
Tell us about this Groove platform.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, I think you raise an interesting point because quite
often people do look at things like technology and social
media as causing distress, and then at times we're advocating
the use of technology to support people and people are
a bit like I get a bit confused here, And
I was having this conversation with Sir Peter Gluckman, the
former Prime Minister's chief science advisor. Recently he's actually put
(28:45):
out a very good report this week on it. He
calls it an amplifier. So what that means is both
sides of the argument are correct. If you're going online
and using it positively, then you get a positive experience
out of it, and of course those going on and
using it not so positiveatively, that's what gets amplified. And
(29:07):
so there is something there around the education and helping
people understand what they can use it for.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So what is it? Sorry, what is Groove? Is it
an app?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
So Groove is an app. It's an app where you
can go and through AI say I'm feeling a bit
anxious today. It has content that is approved by New
Zealand clinical experts, so it's approved by Health New Zealand
and it will bring out to you some techniques and
(29:42):
tips maybe to manage your anxiety. And why this is
a change is if you were to say, go on
the traditional format, you would go on to a website,
you'd click down some sort of site map and try
and find the anxiety resources and work your way through them.
The ability for AI is that can navigate right, so
it's not necessarily deciding the content for you or writing
(30:06):
it that's already written by the clinical experts. But you
can go in and say I'm on a farm, I'm
getting anxious, and it can get bring out the right
resources that are going to support you in real time.
And that's a real change and I think going to
be quite a game changer.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, I'm actually just I've just downloaded it now as
you're talking about it, So if people want to access it,
they literally can just search for that app on their
mobile phone, yes, or well mobile phone, whether it be
Apple or Google or whatever like that, and then register
and away you go.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, I've got it on my phone and I use
it quite regularly myself. And you know that there is
so much we can do about learning skills and techniques
and tips that support you through a range of issues.
It's more the prevention and the early intervention, and I
think it's going to be quite a game changer. Where
(31:00):
I think there's a huge opportunity going forward is if
you look at the Annual Health Survey at the moment,
it reports people with unmet need for mental health, and
you classically think that is about lack of support available
to you, unmet need. When I've pushed the officials to
ask people why they felt there was no support available,
(31:21):
a third of them came back and said they didn't
know where to go. That staggers me. In a time
of Dr Google. So what we're looking at now is
an AI enabled platform where you could go in, say
on Matt Duc, I'm fifty three, I live in a
small town called Rung your order, I get anxiety and depression,
and it will bring out to you the available services
(31:42):
locally and potentially booked you in.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
What a fantastic idea. By the way, I mentioned one
seven three seven, and it's just worth mentioning. We had
a text from someone who was talking about when they
were in crisis and they had to wait a few
hours before they could finally speak to someone. So the
one seven three seven number or website is if you
need support if you're in a crisis. The first thing
if you go to the website pages, it will direct
(32:06):
you if that you are experiencing a mental health emergency
or crisis, and it will say either call one one
one or get in touch with your local crisis team.
So I just thought we'd put that out there, because
it's not meant to be there in your darkest hour
when everything is closed in on you and you're in
desperate need of some help, is it?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah, very much so, And quite often people do get
into distress and potentially a mental health crisis, and it
is important that in a time of distress or crisis,
you do get the response you need. And quite rightly
you've highlighted with the tally health lines yeah, called triple
one if you are in the position to crisis.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Right, let's take some more calls.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Lynn, Hello, oh hi, I'm just like first time calling.
Some of it nervous story, but.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
That's all right. I think we're among friends.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I've been thinking about going to SEMAT, so it's sort
of it made me think, all right, now it's the opportunity.
I have a daughter in her twenties who has had
on a north mental health issues for probably the last
ten years, but unfortunately she started to self medicate herself
with alcohol and it now has an addiction problem as well.
(33:20):
But we just every we keep knocking on doors and
we keep asking for help, but it doesn't seem to
be rehab availability for her to get that kind of help.
And I don't think we can treat her mental health
property until we get on top of the addiction. And unfortunately,
(33:41):
earlier this year, I lost my other daughter in her
thirties true addiction, and I'm now bringing up my granddaughter
because of the situation. And it's just so frustrating. I
just I just want to know how the best way
we can go with getting her some help.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Okay, Matt, Yeah, look, thank you for that call, and
also to acknowledge not only what you're doing to support
your daughter but also your grandchild as well. And I
just want to acknowledge that it might be quite hardly
with it. And I don't expect you to tell us
(34:21):
on air about where you live, because what we can
do is connect you to the available services. So I
don't know whether Tim's got the ability to get your
contact details offline or equally if you want to email
me at Matt dot doc at Parliament dot co Vt
(34:41):
dot m Z, because what we do want to do
is make sure that people get timely access to support.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
What I do know is Lynn can stand on the
line and give her details to Tyra as well.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Oh brilliant, let's let's do that. Lynn.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Get really hard because the suicide thing gets thrown around
sometimes and that's just so frightening for me.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah, yeah, very much so. And we do want to
connect you to support in the time, especially with addictions,
because we do know with addictions people's motivation for change
can swing back and forth. So we've got to get
a new son.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Linden, you stay on the line. Can you stay on
the line when I when I click off? When I
click off? And you you stay on the line and
my produce attire. We'll have a chat with you, okay,
and we'll get your details so much. Okay, you we will.
Sorry you want to say something?
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Yeah, I do, Tim And and I'm looking forward to
supporting Linn. What what I would say? And in response
to Lynn more more at a national level, Linn does
talk of an issue we have around people accessing timely support.
As I've said, I think we've broken down the barrier
of stigma and discrimination. It's still a lot to do,
(35:59):
but I think we've come a long way. But now
as people reach out, we need that support and play.
So one thing this government's done we've set the mental
health and addiction targets first time in New Zealand. We've
done this. Three of them are around access one week
for primary mental health and addiction support and three week
(36:19):
for specialist mental health and addiction support. So seen within
one week for primary within three week for specialists. We're
reporting on that now, not only at a national average,
but right down to the twenty health districts. I can
also report on it rural and urban population groups, Mardi,
pacifica Asian, European, and also age groups. And I'm sure
(36:43):
you'll probably see the way I'm going when you look
at some of the area's potentially Northland, northern rural, Northern rural,
Mardy and young, we see some of that performance drop away.
So look, my budget's two point eight billion dollars for
mental health and addiction services this year. I'm expecting with
my officials at the area is that are not expecting
(37:06):
that are delivering that guaranteed level of servers the investment
to go in there to raise them up, so everyone,
no matter where you live, gets that level of servers
for excess.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Right, A big job.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
We're going to be back in just a moment. It's
ten to five. News Talk said B. News Talk said B.
We're with Matt Douce, just squeezing one more core before
we wrap it up. Jordan. How on a second, where's
the button working again?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (37:31):
By the way, sorry, just before we do go to Jordan,
we've had a few callers which has led us to
just on a particular subject. So We're just going to
give you. The number for the Alcohol and Drug Help
Line is eight hundred seven eight seven seven nine seven. Okay,
So if you need to talk to someone regarding alcohol
and drug issues, eight hundred seven eight seven seven nine
(37:54):
seven okay. Jordan, Hello, Hi there.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Hey, So my question was as somebody who's gone through
the mental health system, my one issue with it was
especially going after the crisis team stuff. They were great,
loved them, did a great job, but all the aftercare stuff,
it was always with a different person, you know, Like
(38:22):
I never had follow up appointments with like the same
doctor and all that kind of thing. So I never
really felt like people knew my issues. So leading into
that is, how is how are you guys a national
trying to kind of fix mental health care system?
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Okay, I'm sorry, Jordan, I've just accillently was my thought.
I just clicked off on you then, But Matt, I
think we've Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Well, I think Jordan raised some very good points, and
you know, he did ask, you know, how are we
going to respond to mental health and New Zealand. I've
put out the government's plan three clear actions that we
will deliver in and be held to accountant. First one
faster access to support. Too many people not getting support
(39:12):
in a timely manner, and I'm sure you agree mental
health stuck on a wait list. It is not good.
So we need to ensure people get support. The second
thing is growing the mental health workforce. In fact we've
got I would say the biggest barrier to timely support
in New Zealand is too many workforce vacancies. So we've
got a plan and to grow each of those professions.
(39:34):
And then Jordan was referencing the third area is a
better crisis response. And I just put it to you.
In a time of physical crisis, you call Triple one,
you get a health response the ambulance. When you've got
a mental health crisis in New Zealand, you call Trimple one,
you get a criminal justice response the police. So we're
rolling out a mental health coresponse teams that go out
(39:56):
to people in a time and need and I think
that'll make a big difference for people who are in
the time of crisis.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Excellent, Hey Matts so much for coming in mate. I
really appreciate the time, and I hope everyone knows if
you've missed any of this hour. We're with the Minister
of Mental Health Map Busey do go and listen to
our podcast. We'll be back then. Thanks again, Matt really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Thanks very good on you.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
We'll be back with Max Whitehead talking of employment relations
back in a moment. News Talks EDB.
Speaker 7 (40:27):
For more from the weekend collective.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Listen live to News Talks EDB weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
EDB and welcome back to the show. This is the
(00:46):
Weekend Collective. Well, welcome in, Welcome back, This is the
Weekend Collective and this is the Health Hub. Now, this
is where, of course we want your calls and participation
on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty And as I
said at the start of the show, we'd love you
to We've got a guest in this year who you're
you're probably going to be. This is your chance. He's
the Minister of Mental Health and I'm going to introduce
him in a moment, even though you know who it is.
(01:06):
But just before we do, before we get cracking for
this out, don't forget after five we've got smart Money
with Max Whitehead. But onto the Health Hub. We are
joined by in fact, I'm just going to cut to
the chase. He's the Minister of Mental Health and his
name is Matt Doocey and he's with us. Now, Matt,
how are you good?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Better now?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Chris car now audio slave, but yourself is the best
you can be. What I couldn't have asked for anything better.
Thank you for there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well we aim to please. We often get guests through
a little surprised when we play their song request because
they always think that they're the only ones who are
still listening to something. But there we go. Now, look,
there's lots of things we can talk about. We want
your cause on this on eight hundred and eighty ten
to eighty because the mental health portfolio is something that
Matt actually sought out because it's an issue that he's
(01:54):
passionate about. There are some things we're going to talk
about because there's a new AI platform which is a
bit different to the ones you might be used to.
It's called Groove, and it's about providing strategies for every
day men health issues, streets, slept the stress, sleep problems,
et cetera. And of course, you know, some people think,
oh Ai God is part of the problem, but you know,
AI's technology can be used for good or ill. So
(02:17):
we're gonna have a chat about that. But let's I
think first up, Matt, I know we sort of know
you because your minister, but we assume we do, but
maybe we don't that well. But anyway, you did seek
out this portfolio, didn't you.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, I came back to new Zealand in twenty thirteen,
after being on my oe, actually quite taken back at
the conversation we are having in this country on mental health.
For the positive. I mean, I had my own mental
health challenges as a teenager in the late eighties, and boy,
(02:50):
I did not feel I could talk about it. And
now we have got a younger generation hugely articulate, and
we've got people like Sir John Kerwin, Mike King, Jazz
Thornton really bursts that bubble where we've broken the barriers
stigma and discrimination. Yeah, we can do a lot more.
But I was like, wow, I want to be part
(03:10):
of this. I worked in mental health after starting to
address my own issues, I thought I want to get
into this field and help others. So I thought, well,
what's the next step for me? And I thought, well politics,
and I just think whatever political color of government. The
health minister Simmy and Brown, he's brilliant, but he's fighting
a lot of physical health issues as every other health minister.
(03:33):
And I thought time had come to have someone solely
focused on mental health in this country.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
What's it what's it been like between in the time
between decided to become a politician and now finding yourself
with your own portfolio minister, as Minister of mental health,
what has there will be a couple of things in
your head that instantly come to mind as to what
you've learned or impressions or I don't know, are there
(04:00):
hard lessons or what stands out to you about what
you've learned since undertaking this role.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Yeah, well, we are by nature politicians and we are political.
But actually, my experience of traveling the country and talking
mental health, be it an opposition or government, people want
a bipartisan approach, right, And so I set up New
Zealand's Parliament's first cross party Mental Health Group with Chloe
(04:27):
Strawbrick and Lewisa Wall at the time on the firm
belief that actually we can work bipartisan on this issue.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Actually, as you say that, I can't imagine it makes
so much sense and it sounds like the bleeding obvious,
because it does seem like one of those areas where
surely we have to be able to put our differences
aside that it can't be political. Of course we can
argue about resources for this and that. Yeah, but there
must be a huge overlap regardless of whether you're left
(04:56):
right up and down whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, very much so. I mean our first report we
produced in that cross party group was called zero Suicides
in New Zealand. And you know, naturally in an area
like suicide prevention, there is so much commonality and common
goals and we really came together for that. Our next
focus of work was around better access for young people
(05:22):
needing mental health support and again a lot of overlap
between the parties and it's really exciting. Chloe's step back
because she's now co leader of her party. I've had
to step aside because I'm the mental Health Minister now,
but the next generation of MPs have come through and
taken up the leadership and that group and they're actively
(05:42):
working on shared goals and that's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
How much of the challenge around mental health and New
Zealand is about that cultural shift? Like you can put
resources into X, Y and Z and there will always
be a demand on resources and infrastructure and personnel and
all that sort of thing. But how much difference has
it made do you think the fact that New Zealanders
I think are much more likely to be able to
feel they can talk to someone about their mental health.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, we're destigmatizing it I mean, I think generationally we've
had a massive shift, and I think we should at
times celebrate that. But I suppose what keeps me up
at night is now we've created a culture where more
people can take that leap of faith and open us
for help. I think at times that support is not there.
(06:29):
And I say support as a not just treatment that's
a part of it, but support as an early intervention
and prevention. And so we've rarely got to catch up
quick making sure when people do reach out for help
that that time he support is there.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Actually not what you mean. I think we talked about
this off air. You mentioned it as well, but John
Kerwin as one of the names if I look back
to when he started to talk about his mental health,
he was kind of a pioneer and being open about it,
wasn't he When I think of how because that would
go back quite a few years, wouldn't it that Kerwin
started to share his battles very.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Much so, and you know, no more so in a
country like New Zealand, you know, very rural, very macho,
and to think that you had an all black at
the time he was smashing it out worldwide. He was
under the duvet crying, and he's been very open thinking
about jumping out of a hotel window on the third floor.
(07:25):
So now we've got someone that you know, we looked
up to, we related to, and when he spoke out, boy,
my viewers did open up that conversation in the hard
to reach areas of men in rural New Zealand. And
I think he's a game changer. Has Mike King. Jazz
Thornton is that next generation. She goes into schools and
(07:47):
just hundreds of young people listen to her and she
gives that voice of hope about been there before. It's
that lived experience. You've been there, you've got through, and
you're not there to tell someone what to do, but
just open up and share your experience of hope and
light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
By the way, before we continue with the conversation, I
usually do this as a matter of when any themes
come up around mental health, self harm and all those
sorts of things. I always want to remind you that
if you are listening, and you don't have to be
calling us. If you are were listening and you're battling
with something, the initiative that I will point you towards
and I imagine that Matt would back this up. Is
the one seven three seven initiative. You can go literally,
(08:27):
you can call one seven three seven, you can text
one seven three seven, or you can just google one
seven three seven and it'll pop up. The first thing
you'll get will be the one seven three seven Digital Hub,
and someone will connect with you, even if they don't
get there straight away. One seven three seven. It is, actually, Matt,
quite an amazing initiative, isn't it? Just have that one
(08:49):
source of connection for people?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, very much.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
So you can call, text, as you say, contact one
seven three seven twenty four seven, seven days a week,
talk to a trained counselor also for the younger ones,
you've got youth line very similar, message, text, chat, email, call.
You know, those tallyhealth lines are there for people in
(09:13):
the time of distress.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Ye.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Now, as I said, Matt Doocey's with us. He's a
Minister of mental Health taking your cause. So let's just
get into it. We've got lots week and talk about yeah,
Matt in between the calls, but let's take some calls.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Pro Hello, Hi, how are you guys?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Good?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Thanks?
Speaker 5 (09:31):
That's good. My question is on a specific mental health disorder,
anorex here, And I know that the national government gave
some funding to support EnEx here this year, and I
was just wondering, Matt, if you could tell me if
there's any kind of checks and balances on where that
money is spent and if there's any research or any
(09:53):
funding going into early detection for narex here.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, thanks for that question, pro And look, I think
you've hit the nail on the head. It is important
in an area like eating disorders, we get in a
lot earlier and we support people a lot earlier as well.
You know, eating disorders can be preventable and treatable. I
(10:18):
was quite amazed that we were working off an eating
disorder strategy that was sixteen years old, and we think
of all the developments at eating disorders and so yet
we tipped in a bit more money, went from nineteen
million a year up to twenty three. But let's be
clear that that's just a drop in the ocean. That's
(10:38):
a starting point for me, and I think that that
for me, increase was not only to invest into some
of our treatment services around the country that are underinvested in,
but actually to invest more in our community and NGO
organizations who are at the front line already delivering and
get in a lot earlier, as you say.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Through yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I have personal through
with it with my daughter, and she was only I
mean you could probably say she got diagnosed within a
month of really kind of getting in her ex here.
And it's been a two year so far, two year
kind of battel to get her right. Well not even
a battle. She's been amazing, but you know, it's just
(11:20):
takes that long to recover fully. And so that early detection,
you know, I said, the kid going kind of undiagnosed
for six months, then the years of you know, of
recovery it takes is it's just huge, and it's incredibly expensive.
We're super lucky to get some family help, but you know,
we were spending nearly five hundred dollars a week on
psychiatrists and any sort of coaches for her at the start,
(11:43):
and I just know there's just so many families out
there that could not afford that. So getting some funding
early and looking at not even alternative but just other
ways that you can fund through kind of There's a
group called Redefined Coaching who supply any disorder coaches for
anyone who's got any disorder, and gosh, you know the
(12:04):
Bailey whod my daughter's got has absolutely saved her life.
And so you know there's any way that we could
help funds something like that would be yeah great?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Sorry, now, Pro, Look, you know this stuffs close to home.
You know, I can understand how you know they're just
talking about these things can be really tough. Pro. So
I think I think the fact that you've called to
talk to us about this, good on.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
You, Thank you. And the last tige I've got is
actually a Guinness Word Record attempt HP thing in Rolliston
on the twenty ninth of November called Hits for Hope
and all money raised is going into mental health organizations.
So another one that you could look at.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Good stuff? Hey, Pro, thanks thanks for calling good stuff. Yeah,
when you're close to this stuff, it takes a bit
of courage to pick up the phone on you know,
give us a call on nationwide radio, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yeah, Yeah, thanks for doing that, Pro, And I hope
your your daughter's doing well and recovering. And in fact
also should have mentioned to him that out of that
four million dollars, part of that money is going into
better support for parents and family, because we do know
quite often parents and family struggle at times more than
(13:13):
the individual because they they're really concerned and often there's
no support for them.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Can you remind me now there was something initiative that
was announced a while ago about counseling for teenagers and
school kids and things that I can't remember the details
around it, but it was about a whole lot of
money to provide a truckload of counseling sessions.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Oh, the gum Boot Friday progress.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Does that time to issues that if you had a
teenager with an eating disorders, is that time to any
of that or is that more specialist on a different,
different sort of plane.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Well, it can cover that. I mean at times eating
disorders can be very specialist if the individuals needed to
get support at a treatment end. But what we did
do is fun gum boot Friday six million dollars a year.
They've been able to take a third more counselors on board,
so they've got seven hundred now right across the country.
(14:06):
They quite often when young people reach out through their platform,
see someone within forty eight hours and that will be
a range of issues including eating disorders as well.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Right, we're taking your cause with Matt doc he as
Minister of Mental Health. Lots to talk about and if
you want to give us a call and ask Mat
a question about some area of mental health that you're
concerned about, or offer your experience. But the broader question is,
and Matt touched on this earlier on is that when
he was younger and was dealing with his issues that
you know, it wasn't something we felt comfortable talking about.
(14:39):
But with the efforts of public figures like John Kerwin
and jas Thornton that we are much better at that.
Do you feel more comfortable talking about your mental health?
I would argue that plainly we are, but do we
still do you feel we've got a way to go?
I mean an example of how we are willing to
talk about it is the call you've just heard from Prue. Right,
(15:01):
we'll be back in just a moment, taking your course.
Eight hundred eighty ten eighty. It's twenty one and a
half past four. Yes, Newstalks, it'd be. I've got the
Minister for Mental Health, Matt Doocey's with us taking your
calls on. Look, anything you want to talk about within
Matt's remedies. Happy to take your calls on things, and Jane,
good afternoon.
Speaker 6 (15:21):
Good afternoon. This is a little bit different. But my
husband has had a traumatic brain injury for eleven years
from an accident, and I have been funded by ACC
to care for him all this time. In June this
year I had to go into hospital and I had
(15:45):
a cancer operation. ACC have not paid me one cent
since then. I have done everything I can to advise
from that, I'm capable of looking after my husband, which
I am and which I am doing. But nobody will listen.
And this is causing me a huge amount of stress.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Oh that, Why are they? Why they said that? Why?
Why have they?
Speaker 6 (16:12):
Have they given you any ex any Some of the
people that I've applied to have said that they need
the decline letter. I've never had a decline letter. They
just simply stopped paying.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Okay, I'm guessing this probably a Minister of ACC thing.
But can you help with us, Matt, any thoughts.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
First to say, just to acknowledge the pressure you're under
and also caring for someone who's had a brain injury. Actually,
when you look at my mental health issues, that that
was caused by a very bad car accident where I
was throwing out the back windscreen, and when I was discharged,
I had half a dozen follow ups. No one said,
(16:53):
you know, they're all about broken bones. None he said,
I've had a hell of a nock to the head.
So now we do know the relationship between brain injuries
and mental health is as well. What were I wouldn't
courage you to do. I'm actually your former ACC ministers,
so ACC is very clear around its entitlements. I would
encourage you to either reach out to your local MP
(17:15):
who can advocate on your behalf or also ACC has
a range of free advocates you can engage with. And
also there is a complaints process with fear Way. I
think there's three options you could work through what I have.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
I have reached out to the local MP who wasn't interested,
and I have reached out to try and get an advocate,
but I've been told that they the they're closed because
they have so many backlogs that they're not taking on
(17:51):
any new new people. I have done absolutely everything, and
I'm not allowed to speak to the ACC person that
I have dealt with because I've attacted them too often.
And so now when I get on the phone, they
ask who I am, they cut me off.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Okay, that sounds problematic because we've got any I mean
it's not your portfolio map. But what else? What other advice?
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I mean quite often in Canterbury people go down to
community Law and get legal advice as well, So I
do know with ACC there's a range of venues available
for people to explore them.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Sorry, we can't really help you with that one, Jane,
if you wanted to contact the minister, I mean, how
would you write to the minister about this? Jane was
saying that I'm trying to get my head around why
ACC wouldn't talk to her. But anyway, if you want
to get in touch with the minister.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, I mean ministers are very accessible through their email addresses.
You can find emails online and quite often people do
write to me as a mental health minister and they
might say a bit concerned about someone I'm supporting and
the care they're getting and things like that.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So you know there are the resources to see read
those emails and get that action.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, because quite often under your portfolio, your departments are
officials are advising you on responses to letters as well,
and you know that that is our role as local
MPs and ministers as well. Where we're you know, we're
pub publicly available, we're elected, and people do reach.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Out, so that in the minister face he says, that's
Scott Simpson, that's right, Okay, I can think that's one
of the questions people would have. Hey, thank you for
your call to Jane. One of the questions people would
have is I got it matter. If I thought I
was writing to a minister, I'd be thinking, I'm not
going to read it. No one's going to read it.
It's going to disappear into this big inbox from hell.
(19:49):
I guess because I work in the public eye and
you know, sometimes you just can't deal with the emails
you get. And I think, well, if you're a minister,
what's that like?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, you could remember though if you look at say
ACC for example, independent Crown Entity, even Health New Zealand.
I mean quite obviously we can't intervene in someone's care,
but we can advise on process or pathways forward or
ask the institution such as Health New Zealand to have
(20:17):
a look at the case and see if there's anything
they can do better.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
How I mean, and a local MP should get onto
this stuf, shouldn't they as well?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Look, I enjoy being a local MP on coming up
in my twelfth year, which is your what's your market,
Edy Caigra, Yeah, and I enjoy it. I've got two offices,
I'm out and about. I've got young kids. You know,
we've got a family life in the community. We serve
and look to be honest sometimes. Yet you can have
(20:49):
a big week as a minister during a sitting block
in Parliament and you come home on a Thursday night,
You've got your constituent appointments on the Friday, your first appointment.
You're helping a constituent. It might be the biggest issue
in the grand scheme of things, but for that individual
it's very important. Quite often when they come to your
(21:10):
office have had a lot of doors closed on them
and you're kind of the last option available and you
can make a real difference in people's lives and sometimes
I find that the most rewarding part of my job.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
That's why we've been talking about parliamentary systems in another
part of the show, and a lot of people do
bemoan that they would like more MPs who are connected
to an electorate rather than the listing thing. But that's
a whole different discussion. We're not going to go there
with you, even though I just about did. Let's take
some more calls, Yvonne.
Speaker 7 (21:39):
Hello, Oh hello?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Is this that I'm Tim? But you've got Matt listening
to you right now?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
HI have on?
Speaker 7 (21:46):
Yeah, I'd like to speak to you, Matt. Thank you
very much for giving us this opportunity to talk to you.
We have probably you may or may not be aware,
but we have communicated in the past, and I have
(22:07):
a question for you. Would you choose another party to
align to or leaves parliament and build a mental health
foundation because under your direction, mental health is offering us
so much more. You've done so well, Matt. And because
(22:32):
you are, because you're in National and you represent them
to a lot of people, they perhaps get this attitude
that mental health is a waste of time or no
good Evan, are.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You saying that that Your impression is that National is
not the feel good party of mental health, but Matt
is the feel good guy.
Speaker 7 (22:59):
Yeah, well it has to feel good party to make
for mental health. Because he've done so well, why shouldn't
he be attached to a parliamentary.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
You'd like him to be able to continue his work
even if he gets voted out. What is that what
you're saying?
Speaker 7 (23:16):
Es definitely, you know he's possibly got enough people around
him and earning enough money to create a mental health
foundation for.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
New zealm Okay, thank you. What would you like to
have a fund there?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
That's lovely, Thanks Yvonne. And look, let's be very clear.
I've always been clear, been New Zealand's first mental health minister.
Doesn't it doesn't make a difference giving someone a job title.
And I'm only part of the system, right. So politics
is an important part of the system because that's where
we debate the best ideas to go forward and not
(23:53):
less be candid. Anyone can have the best ideas and
also you know, thinking about budgetary decisions as well. But
you know, I think where you're goingon is that what
the real focus has been on is people with lived
experience and elevating them actually, because what we do know
is people with lived experience of engaging in mental health
(24:13):
services is not about shame or stigma anymore. It's about
them helping others and that's the stuff we've been able
to support. But it's actually backing the work already happening
in the sector in the community.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Hey, I'm sure Matt appreciate your call, and so do
I thank you very much. Hey, Matt, So we're talking
about the stigma before and how we are better at it.
I've got a I don't mean this to sound like
a I sometimes ask dumb questions and I hope they're
not as dumb as I think. We know that the
rural sector has had issues with and continues to have
(24:46):
issues with mental health. Does it make it again? This
is where I think it's Maybe it's a trivial question
because it's not all about money and things like that.
But does the fact that at the moment through Fonterra
and there's been some positive news for farmers does that
help with and we're are we at with the stigma
within people and within the rural sector in terms of
(25:07):
accessing mental health?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, I think we've come a long way, but it's
still a barrier for some. Look. I still hear stories
where I live in North Canterbury where it's the wife
still having to ring the GP practice to make an appointment,
whether it be physical or mental health, because the bloke
just doesn't want to acknowledge the issue or do anything
(25:30):
about it. So we've got a lot more to do
as well. And I think, you know, it is about
ensuring that people feel comfortable in reaching out and they
do know that support is there. But what we do
know in mental health is quite often that support needs
to be more localized. People want to see themselves in
(25:51):
the service that they're reaching out to, they want to
trust it. For example, with farmers, we funded real support
trusts because what we do know is that in a
time and need, having a farmer on farm to your
farm to have a chat about what's going on for
you breaks down the barriers and actually supports those to
(26:13):
reach out and get more help.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
With farmers seeking help, is it also just I mean,
if you're they're busy, that's the only way to put it.
I wonder how much of it is stigma and how
much of us Look, I just haven't got time for
that right now. You know, I've got carving to do,
or you know, I've got whatever jobs you've got. You're
flat out and it's like I've got time to go
to the bloody doctor. I mean, is there a little
(26:36):
bit of that in it as well? Just hard working
farmers no time to see the doctor.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Oh potentially, but I would say probably there's a lot
of connection between the two. And maybe people say I'm
too busy because of the stigma, still worried about potentially
what other people will think of them, or quite candidly
been afraid about understanding what might happen when you unpack
the issue that might be driving some of your distress
(27:02):
as well. And look, we've got a real challenge Zealand
with a significant amount of the population being in rural
and remote communities in New Zealand as well. But I
just think there's huge opportunities and look, you know we've
talked about the AI app technology has the ability to
really break down some of those barriers further and you
(27:25):
know of engage people who are using sort of tally
health on farm and it really allows them to at
a time suitable and a location suitable to them to
actually reach out and get some professional support.
Speaker 6 (27:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Actually, we're going to we might have a chat about
that AI side of things after the break, But if
you've got any questions for Matt Doucy, Minister of Mental Health,
then give us a call at eight one hundred and
eighty ten eighty as I say, text nine to two
as well. Sorry nine two nine two abbreviating it. We'll
be back in just a moment. It's twenty two minutes
to five News Talk said b Yes, welcome back with
Matt Dooc, Minister of Mental Health. Actually, Matt, just before
(28:02):
the break, we're talking about the well and I introduced
the show and we haven't gone onto it yet. The
new AI platform called Groove, So of course, you know,
let's just put it to one side. You know, social
media and technology can be a cause of many people's
mental health problems, but there are also good uses of it.
Tell us about this Groove platform.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, I think you raise an interesting point because quite
often people do look at things like technology and social
media as causing distress, and then at times we're advocating
the use of technology to support people and people are
a bit like I get a bit confused here, And
I was having this conversation with Sir Peter Gluckman, the
former Prime Minister's chief science advisor. Recently he's actually put
(28:45):
out a very good report this week on it. He
calls it an amplifier. So what that means is both
sides of the argument are correct. If you're going online
and using it positively, then you get a positive experience
out of it, and of course those going on and
using it not so positiveatively, that's what gets amplified. And
(29:07):
so there is something there around the education and helping
people understand what they can use it for.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So what is it? Sorry, what is Groove? Is it
an app?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
So Groove is an app. It's an app where you
can go and through AI say I'm feeling a bit
anxious today. It has content that is approved by New
Zealand clinical experts, so it's approved by Health New Zealand
and it will bring out to you some techniques and
(29:42):
tips maybe to manage your anxiety. And why this is
a change is if you were to say, go on
the traditional format, you would go on to a website,
you'd click down some sort of site map and try
and find the anxiety resources and work your way through them.
The ability for AI is that can navigate right, so
it's not necessarily deciding the content for you or writing
(30:06):
it that's already written by the clinical experts. But you
can go in and say I'm on a farm, I'm
getting anxious, and it can get bring out the right
resources that are going to support you in real time.
And that's a real change and I think going to
be quite a game changer.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, I'm actually just I've just downloaded it now as
you're talking about it, So if people want to access it,
they literally can just search for that app on their
mobile phone, yes, or well mobile phone, whether it be
Apple or Google or whatever like that, and then register
and away you go.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, I've got it on my phone and I use
it quite regularly myself. And you know that there is
so much we can do about learning skills and techniques
and tips that support you through a range of issues.
It's more the prevention and the early intervention, and I
think it's going to be quite a game changer. Where
(31:00):
I think there's a huge opportunity going forward is if
you look at the Annual Health Survey at the moment,
it reports people with unmet need for mental health, and
you classically think that is about lack of support available
to you, unmet need. When I've pushed the officials to
ask people why they felt there was no support available,
(31:21):
a third of them came back and said they didn't
know where to go. That staggers me. In a time
of Dr Google. So what we're looking at now is
an AI enabled platform where you could go in, say
on Matt Duc, I'm fifty three, I live in a
small town called Rung your order, I get anxiety and depression,
and it will bring out to you the available services
(31:42):
locally and potentially booked you in.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
What a fantastic idea. By the way, I mentioned one
seven three seven, and it's just worth mentioning. We had
a text from someone who was talking about when they
were in crisis and they had to wait a few
hours before they could finally speak to someone. So the
one seven three seven number or website is if you
need support if you're in a crisis. The first thing
if you go to the website pages, it will direct
(32:06):
you if that you are experiencing a mental health emergency
or crisis, and it will say either call one one
one or get in touch with your local crisis team.
So I just thought we'd put that out there, because
it's not meant to be there in your darkest hour
when everything is closed in on you and you're in
desperate need of some help, is it?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah, very much so, And quite often people do get
into distress and potentially a mental health crisis, and it
is important that in a time of distress or crisis,
you do get the response you need. And quite rightly
you've highlighted with the tally health lines yeah, called triple
one if you are in the position to crisis.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Right, let's take some more calls.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Lynn, Hello, oh hi, I'm just like first time calling.
Some of it nervous story, but.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
That's all right. I think we're among friends.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I've been thinking about going to SEMAT, so it's sort
of it made me think, all right, now it's the opportunity.
I have a daughter in her twenties who has had
on a north mental health issues for probably the last
ten years, but unfortunately she started to self medicate herself
with alcohol and it now has an addiction problem as well.
(33:20):
But we just every we keep knocking on doors and
we keep asking for help, but it doesn't seem to
be rehab availability for her to get that kind of help.
And I don't think we can treat her mental health
property until we get on top of the addiction. And unfortunately,
(33:41):
earlier this year, I lost my other daughter in her
thirties true addiction, and I'm now bringing up my granddaughter
because of the situation. And it's just so frustrating. I
just I just want to know how the best way
we can go with getting her some help.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Okay, Matt, Yeah, look, thank you for that call, and
also to acknowledge not only what you're doing to support
your daughter but also your grandchild as well. And I
just want to acknowledge that it might be quite hardly
with it. And I don't expect you to tell us
(34:21):
on air about where you live, because what we can
do is connect you to the available services. So I
don't know whether Tim's got the ability to get your
contact details offline or equally if you want to email
me at Matt dot doc at Parliament dot co Vt
(34:41):
dot m Z, because what we do want to do
is make sure that people get timely access to support.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
What I do know is Lynn can stand on the
line and give her details to Tyra as well.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Oh brilliant, let's let's do that. Lynn.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Get really hard because the suicide thing gets thrown around
sometimes and that's just so frightening for me.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah, yeah, very much so. And we do want to
connect you to support in the time, especially with addictions,
because we do know with addictions people's motivation for change
can swing back and forth. So we've got to get
a new son.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Linden, you stay on the line. Can you stay on
the line when I when I click off? When I
click off? And you you stay on the line and
my produce attire. We'll have a chat with you, okay,
and we'll get your details so much. Okay, you we will.
Sorry you want to say something?
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Yeah, I do, Tim And and I'm looking forward to
supporting Linn. What what I would say? And in response
to Lynn more more at a national level, Linn does
talk of an issue we have around people accessing timely support.
As I've said, I think we've broken down the barrier
of stigma and discrimination. It's still a lot to do,
(35:59):
but I think we've come a long way. But now
as people reach out, we need that support and play.
So one thing this government's done we've set the mental
health and addiction targets first time in New Zealand. We've
done this. Three of them are around access one week
for primary mental health and addiction support and three week
(36:19):
for specialist mental health and addiction support. So seen within
one week for primary within three week for specialists. We're
reporting on that now, not only at a national average,
but right down to the twenty health districts. I can
also report on it rural and urban population groups, Mardi,
pacifica Asian, European, and also age groups. And I'm sure
(36:43):
you'll probably see the way I'm going when you look
at some of the area's potentially Northland, northern rural, Northern rural,
Mardy and young, we see some of that performance drop away.
So look, my budget's two point eight billion dollars for
mental health and addiction services this year. I'm expecting with
my officials at the area is that are not expecting
(37:06):
that are delivering that guaranteed level of servers the investment
to go in there to raise them up, so everyone,
no matter where you live, gets that level of servers
for excess.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Right, A big job.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
We're going to be back in just a moment. It's
ten to five. News Talk said B. News Talk said B.
We're with Matt Douce, just squeezing one more core before
we wrap it up. Jordan. How on a second, where's
the button working again?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (37:31):
By the way, sorry, just before we do go to Jordan,
we've had a few callers which has led us to
just on a particular subject. So We're just going to
give you. The number for the Alcohol and Drug Help
Line is eight hundred seven eight seven seven nine seven. Okay,
So if you need to talk to someone regarding alcohol
and drug issues, eight hundred seven eight seven seven nine
(37:54):
seven okay. Jordan, Hello, Hi there.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Hey, So my question was as somebody who's gone through
the mental health system, my one issue with it was
especially going after the crisis team stuff. They were great,
loved them, did a great job, but all the aftercare stuff,
it was always with a different person, you know, Like
(38:22):
I never had follow up appointments with like the same
doctor and all that kind of thing. So I never
really felt like people knew my issues. So leading into
that is, how is how are you guys a national
trying to kind of fix mental health care system?
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Okay, I'm sorry, Jordan, I've just accillently was my thought.
I just clicked off on you then, But Matt, I
think we've Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Well, I think Jordan raised some very good points, and
you know, he did ask, you know, how are we
going to respond to mental health and New Zealand. I've
put out the government's plan three clear actions that we
will deliver in and be held to accountant. First one
faster access to support. Too many people not getting support
(39:12):
in a timely manner, and I'm sure you agree mental
health stuck on a wait list. It is not good.
So we need to ensure people get support. The second
thing is growing the mental health workforce. In fact we've
got I would say the biggest barrier to timely support
in New Zealand is too many workforce vacancies. So we've
got a plan and to grow each of those professions.
(39:34):
And then Jordan was referencing the third area is a
better crisis response. And I just put it to you.
In a time of physical crisis, you call Triple one,
you get a health response the ambulance. When you've got
a mental health crisis in New Zealand, you call Trimple one,
you get a criminal justice response the police. So we're
rolling out a mental health coresponse teams that go out
(39:56):
to people in a time and need and I think
that'll make a big difference for people who are in
the time of crisis.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Excellent, Hey Matts so much for coming in mate. I
really appreciate the time, and I hope everyone knows if
you've missed any of this hour. We're with the Minister
of Mental Health Map Busey do go and listen to
our podcast. We'll be back then. Thanks again, Matt really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Thanks very good on you.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
We'll be back with Max Whitehead talking of employment relations
back in a moment. News Talks EDB.
Speaker 7 (40:27):
For more from the weekend collective.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Listen live to News Talks EDB weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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