April 26, 2025 • 35 mins
It takes a village - parents, caregivers, family, and community. It takes a bit from everyone to raise successful adults.
Parents will do their best to instil particular values into their children - but as we slowly let go as they progress through their schooling, it's unavoidable that others will begin to have a say.
So in terms of values, what is the role of parents and schools as children grow up?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Explanation of the World.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. By the way,
if you've missed any of the previous hours, always an
interesting chat with Kelvin Davidson from core Logic on what
the property market's doing and whether it matters whether you're
buying a new house or an old one. But if
you've missed and up, my goodness that the panel today
with Luke Dallo and Carmacdonald was raucus and quite good fun.
(00:53):
Actually it was a lot of fun. But if you've
missed any of the ours and you feel you'd like
a distraction from you to day, then go and check
out the podcast. Go to the Weekend Collective on iHeartRadio.
But now it's time for the Parents Squad, and we've
got a new guest on the show, which is sort
of all my fault because she is the former principal
at Bardine College. She's I wouldn't say she's retired, she's
the former principal. She's moved on to a few other things.
(01:15):
And her name is Sandy Pasley and Sandy is with
me now, Sandy, good afternoon. How are you doing.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
I'm great, Tim, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Thanks for coming on board. By the way, we thought
we'd just ease you in with that song. We always
have a song choice, and you didn't necessarily have a
choice of song, but you said I like a bit
of the Carpenter and who doesn't because and you coincided
with my producer Tyra, who I think Tyra is a
big fan of the Carpenters as well. So that's just
to ease it into it. Hey, Now, the question for
you out there on one hundred and eighty ten to
eighty is the question of values and who's responsible for
(01:49):
teaching your children values? And that sounds like a really
dumb question, doesn't it, Because you'd instantly say, well, the parents,
of course, in the family. But who else do you
trust to instill values into your children? Because you know,
as the saying goes, it's it takes what is the saying,
It takes a village. That's the one, thank you, Tira.
(02:10):
It takes a village. So it's one thing for parents
to have a role on the values that they want
their children to grow up with and to take on.
But of course they're not the only influence in their
children's lives. Their sports clubs are influencers, the dance schools
they go to, the and the schools. And so how
(02:32):
far do you think schools should go when it comes
to well, what is the school's role in teaching values
to kids? And that I know that can be a
triggering question because you might think, well, that school's got
ideas about X, Y and Z that I don't agree
with at all. But schools are there to educate our kids,
and it's not just about teaching them that one on
one is too and how to read and write and
(02:54):
all that sort of thing, and the more sophisticated learnings
that they get to when when they're older. Values are
a huge part of it. So, Sandy, you're obviously from
a school barot In College that's a special character school
in the form of being a Catholic school. How importantly
did you take the question of values in addition to
(03:16):
teaching scholarly issues.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I think it's incredibly important him. I think values are
what make having strong values or what make a good
community person. And the role of schools is surely to
educate a community so that they become really valued members
(03:41):
of that community and are able to contribute, and that's
the whole point of governments being involved in schools is
so that the population is educated and educated in such
a way that they are all good community members.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Because values are also subjective, aren't they. So I guess
it's easier when you're with a school like Barridine there
is a specific charter and people know when they send
their children. There's a buy in, isn't there Definitely, Whereas
I guess if somebody is going to just the college
that they're in zone or the school they're in zone.
But there's still a role for a huge role for
(04:17):
schools to play. It's just like, I guess, how far
can they go with teaching values? Do you think?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I think even any school has got an important role
playing imparting values for instance, social justice, the importance of
social justice, the importance of equality, and the importance of
being responsible for others as well as yourself. Those things,
no matter whether you're at a Catholic school or a
(04:44):
state school or a private school, all really important.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I meant to actually sorry, I needed one of the
audience to get to know you a little bit, so
I launched into the question there because I was running hot.
But how long have you been involved in an education
yourself or roughly? Actually actually no, no, let's just shorten
that one. You were a principal of Bardeene College for
how long?
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Thirteen and a half years, and before that, I was
principal of Saint Mary's College in Pontsmbe for nine and
a half years, and before that I was deputy principal
at Birkenhead College on the North Shore.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Okay, because you and before that you're teaching, you're a teacher.
Obviously before you come on principal. It's chemistry. You're bad,
was it?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
That's right?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Wow? What made you get into chemistry?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
I did a degree in chemistry at a target university,
which I loved and so much so that when I
finished the degree, I didn't really feel like I wanted
to leave and went back for another year post grad.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah. Oh, that's just what my students do when you
haven't quite worked out what you're going to do. I guess,
is that right exactly?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
And in those days you could get a studentship and
be paid to go to university, which I appealed to
me in those times at that time, because I was
really quite feeling like I needed some money not relying
on my appearance. So I actually took up a studentship,
and with that studentship meant I had to teach for
a year.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
OK so you sort of you sort of fell into
teaching in a way because that was just a requirement.
And then what did you think, this is not so bad?
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Yep, exactly that. I really perhaps, looking back, I didn't
choose to be a teacher when I was younger. Yeah,
but it got under my skin.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Really was it an instant thing? Or as soon as
you did it you just sort of thought, I mean,
you must have had some good kids as well at
your teaching, because if you'd had a bunch of rat bags,
it might have been a bit less fun. I'm guessing. Sorry.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I think when I was a young teacher, I wasn't
that good. I can't remember having it. Probably in those
days they had classes streamed and I had four C two,
which was the lowest science class in form four in
at wait take you girls? Yeah, and I found them
quite uncontrollable sometimes, so I resorted to things I wasn't
(07:00):
supposed to do, like send them out of the classroom
to stand outside of like I really annoyed at them.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, well, that doesn't sound too radical, does it? When
did you just? When did? When did leaderships? When did
taking roles like being a deputy principal? When did that
become part of your sort of picture?
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I guess I loved the classroom and I love teaching,
but I also saw the benefit of being able to
influence things on a wider scale, and that's what you
can do in senior leadership in particular as a principle.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Does it when you do end up in those positions,
does it make you examine how hard do you have
to think about what, in fact you do want to
impart to young people? And how how far a school
can go in having a say in values, because there'd
be certain social issues where families would think, actually, that
school should have nothing to do with it. How did
(07:54):
was that a different Was it an interesting journey for
you working out that side of things?
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I think it was. It was really important to me
that students get the opportunity to be educated now, and
I guess that was inherent because my mother certainly went
through high school, but my father was never given the
opportunity to go to high school. And I saw what
a very able man he was, and how much. It
(08:21):
really affected his life not being able to go to
high school and how empowering education is and what a
responsibility we have to ensure that every student in New
Zealand gets your opportunity to have a fantastic education.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Do you think general schools, I mean, this is hard
to make a judgment on this sort of thing, but
do you think that we're doing a good job with
outside of the family home, with the institutions like schools
of teaching kids about values or are people a bit
Is it something that you sort of tread lightly because
I know you get the wrong message out there, or
something that parents give you a hard time and then
(08:57):
all of a sudden you're like, hang on, are we
right doing that? What do you think?
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Oh? I think it's important because I think that not
only should you be saying and educating about values, but
you should also be modeling it in the school. And
I think that's something that parents sometimes as a parent
it's hard you say what you think, but are you
really modeling it to your children? And that's always more
(09:23):
difficult as a parent.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
It's easier in a way for schools, doesn't it to
sort of push that values because you're not around the
twenty four to seven where you can be accused of hypocrisy.
Swearing would be the classic one where you say to
your kids, don't use that sort of language. Well, dad,
but I've heard you say that word. And I go, well,
and I must say, I think I have fallen back
on the line. It's like, Okay, I've got to be honest.
(09:46):
I think I've said to them once. Look, I can
get away with it because I'm better at picking my
context and all that sort of thing. And I think
I'm worried to lose in the argument. But does it
always have to be? Do you always have to exactly
mirror the values you're teaching your kids? Look, you're going
to tell me, yes, it is.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
I think you should.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yes, definitely to But it's harder for parents though, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:08):
It is If you say that you really care and
about others and you don't want to make sure they're okay,
and then you, as a parent, don't show that by
something that you do. It's really hard. You know, what
are your children picking up on? And it's really hard.
Nobody's perfect. We'll all make mistakes.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Well, I guess that's part of it as well. Is
that if you make mistakes, and it's how you deal
with that side of things. I always I do struggle
with the whole hypocrisy things because I guess, for instance,
there are rules around what adults and children count and
can't do, and they're different. There's a different set of
rules as well around alcohol and things like that, and
so I don't know. I'm not sure how to manage that.
(10:50):
But we're probably getting off the topic here, but we
want your cause on this, by the way, is who's
responsible for teaching your kids' values core values? And if
you are looking for support beyond that your home on
teaching your kids' values, what are the values they are
actually important to you that the school supports your children
in learning. What do you think some core values are
(11:14):
sandy when it comes to schools and other parts of
the community supporting parents with that well, I.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Think it's important that each student feels that they have
got something special and that they are confident, and I
really believe that. I think that if you feel good
about yourself, then you'll certainly support and help other people.
I think that if the child is not feeling good
about themselves, it's very difficult for them to look outside themselves.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
How important for you then at Barradine. And look, it's
not for you to be singing the praises of Barradine,
but Baradine at least when it comes to academic results,
features up the top. There, along with some other very
fine schools, is part of that academic success absolutely contingent
on the value side of things, which is a difficult question.
(12:10):
I know, yes, because you can really drum things into
people and people can you know, learn by fear? And
I mean I learned a lot about in one particular
class because I was terrified of the teacher back in
the days of corporal punishment, and I probably learned a lot.
And I'm not sure that was the right way to
learn it. But then again, there was the teacher. I
probably learned the most from mister Paul when I was
(12:31):
eight years old. He he taught us well because we
loved him. He was great fun. He made us feel
ten feet high. I think every kid in that class
felt special that that Again, that wasn't so much about values,
I don't think, well, maybe it was his there was,
Maybe there was some sort of values lesson in the
way he treated us like individual respected human beings even
(12:55):
though were eight year old, little troublesome upstarts.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Yep. And I think you probably absorbed that and he
cared about you. Yeah, And I think that that's what
teach do. They can look at who's in front of
them and think, I really care about these students. Now,
how do I get the best out of them? And
as for academic success, I think the reason academic success
(13:20):
is good if each student reaches their potential, is it
opens doors for the future and it's really a gate
opening process where it means that they have got possibilities.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Is it more difficult because one of the things we
had I think you might have caught this hour we
had with the principle of Vanguard School as well, which
surprised me. I was expecting a discussion which was all
about what we did cover off discipline and things. But
it was interesting about what was driving their success. But
(13:53):
the question around discipline, how much does that play a
part in it? Because we live in a society where
we obviously don't have physical discipline and I'm quite glad
about that, But how important a role is that in
educating kids?
Speaker 4 (14:08):
And I think it's important in students if they make mistakes,
there are consequences, and I think that's what's hard about
being a parent is teaching your child consequences at an
early stage. I think the most difficult thing for schools
is when parents and schools are not on the same page.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
And how is that possible from because it's there's hundreds
of parents and hundreds of students in one school. What
are the sort of are they sort of non negotiable
I don't mean non negotiable, but what are the clear
areas of easy overlap? Do you think?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Well? I think sometimes with schools, a student may make
a mistake and the school may want the student to
learn from that mistake, and it needs really the parents
to be on board with that learning because if it
doesn't happen, the consequences down the track when they leave
school and they realize, you know, they've been not made
(15:10):
to face consequences, it can be quite serious if they
do silly things.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
So actually, if we were talking about this off I
was going to say, off camera, off Mike before the
show started, because you have When you were the principal
at Barrideen, you would meet every student, There'd be a
get together and the student would be front and center,
Mum and dad just on the side there, but you
would interview them. Was that an important part of sort
(15:36):
of like an informal contract or agreement. This is what
our school's about, this is what we expect. Is that
an important thing for you?
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Is it exactly exactly? Tim ittt was really important and
being a Catholic school was really important that the parents
were buying into all that meant and hence the discussion
because I think it's important people know and therefore there's
no surprises, it's transparent.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, okay, look your calls on this, Sandy and I
are going to continue chatting about this, about the role that,
as they say, it takes a village, parents, caregivers, family community.
But and parents do their best. We all do our
best to instill the values that we hold dear, But
what are the what role do you tolerate? I guess
would be the slightly more stronger way of asking the question,
(16:25):
what role do you tolerate your school making when it
comes to teaching kids' values? And I know, look, I've
had a couple of texts with saying that they've got
no business none, they're not your values. But I don't
think anyone seriously thinks they don't expect your kids to learn.
Children to learn some significant values in the way that
(16:46):
they treat others and the way they respond to challenges
and all those sorts of things. So what do you
think and where does when do parents actually have to
start checking out of that equation? If ever, we'd love
your calls on it. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
text on nine two nine two. My guest is Sandy Pasley,
she's a former principal at Barriding College. We'll be back
in just a moment. News Talk z bun by myself.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
By week the.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
News Talk zed b. My name's Tim Beverages. You know,
my guest is Sandy Pasley, who's the former princill at
baradin College. Now the idea, the idea to get Sandy
on the show as well was because she is I
haven't had hidden which school my kids go to. Of
course I share a little bit about them, but they
do go to Baradene College. And for me, the journey
to as a non I'm an atheist, as someone who's
(17:50):
not religious, the decision to go along with my wife's
decision to send my children to Baradine was huge. But
that's why I'm fascinated with the role of values, because
while I have a different view religiously, i was brought
up in an Anglican schoo all myself, and I've always
thought that the discussion around values and ethics and morals
(18:11):
and things, and that the religion comes in and out
of that equation is a fascinating one because in the end,
we don't want to just turn out kids who know lots.
We want to turn out good people. So we're taking
your cause on how important it is for your school
to teach your children values. And Sandy's with us right now,
and I'll shut up and we'll talk to Graham.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Hello, oh hello, how's it going all right?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Thanks? What you got a question or an observation? What
would you like to say.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
More than observation. I've been living in Queensland, Australia for
probably about four years. I've got two children over there,
my daughter's sixteen and my son's nineteen, and I would
have loved to have bought them up, but with their
(19:01):
special needs and that they were with the grand care
parents for probably for probably a good eight years or
so until my mother in law passed away, probably longer
with my son and my daughter, and so that's one
of the reasons I went over there. I've just come
(19:22):
back to New Zealand for a while because I've had
an auntie that passed away and the other auntie hasn't
been well.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
You've got a couple of teenagers. I gather they're nineteen
and sixteen now.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Ah yeah, no, the both of them are bigger than
me now, so they're both different from one another. My
son Caleb, his likes adventure and when we had that
cyclone over there, he disappeared because he wanted to ghost
from the flooded creek.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
How did you influence how did you influence their values?
Then we can bring it on to our the sort
of focus of our conversation, how you influenced their values
or have you had to trust others to do it?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Graham, I've had.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
A good support network. Both my parents have passed away,
and I haven't been that close to my immediate family
because I mean they've had their own kids and so forth.
And but just I'm part of a church group or
network because I've been to different ones and I've just
(20:23):
tried to get my son, my daughter. It's a bit
different she's not, so she's such struggling with.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Got a question you'd like to put to Sandy. I've
got to hear, so I want to bring her own
on the conversation.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
Was it, yeah, oh sure, okay, this kind of thing
because my children they dropped out of school just like
a year or two ago.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Yeah, look, I might just put you on hold there
and Graham and Steff my produce might have a quick
tat to this if you want to pass on a
question for Sandy. But actually that isn't that is a
What Graham has mentioned is we've got broken families all
the time, and the challenge of it it is of
who's raising your children? So I don't even know what
(21:10):
to say apart from that, what how on a second,
let's see have Graham's still there? No, No, I'll tell
you what. We'll move on from that, because I don't
think we're going to get to the point on that. Hey, Sandy,
he's a text here that says, hello, Tim and Sandy.
When I went to school, he called your teacher mister
or missus. Now it's on a first name basis a
small point, but a fundamental slip in respect. Thanks mister Tim.
(21:32):
That's from Shane. Yeah, does it matter how what a
school's policy is on names? Is that is there something
in respect on that or is that? What do you
reckon Sandy.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Well, I think some schools that might be the case,
but also a lot of schools probably still call the
teacher mister or missus or miss and I think that's
all part of a value in society. We have respect
for doctors, we call them doctor so and so, and
(22:04):
it's learning that people have a title and it's nice
to be respecting of that title. But also the same
I'd say teachers also respect students as.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Well, because and in the end, it doesn't matter what
you're being called if you're not. If you're not treating
your children or the students with respect, then you're probably
not going to end much back in return, are you No?
Speaker 4 (22:28):
I agree entirely, And students pick up on that pretty quickly.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
At Barradine, What were the values for that you think
were important to instill in your students that were, you know,
the fundamental ones that were also an important part of
their education.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
I think the big one is respect is respecting who
you are. Because we were Catholic. Catholic school it's respecting
that everyone has been given life that's precious, and we
respect each other but also respect ourselves, and that respect
has to be fundamental through a school for a school
(23:10):
to function well. I also think those values of social
justice are really important. It's and that one of the
goals at Baradene was social justice impals to action. It's
not enough to see what needs to be done, it's
actually important to do it. And that's where you get
opportunities to actually be of service to the community. Which
(23:32):
is important.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Is that one of the is that one of the
things where we it's one of the modern society traps
that we have. I don't want to generalize, because we
all do, don't we But I might say if I
was generalizing that there is a lot of virtue signaling
that goes on with perhaps the younger generation, but in
society in general, people say this is what I stand for.
(23:55):
I believe in X, Y and Z or saving the
planet or whatever. But they're not following it up. They're not.
It's all words and it's not they're not making a
difference anyone except their friends on social media. Do you
think that that's a big that's something we need to
work on more.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yeah, I do. And that's why that goal is so
important that impels to action doing something about it, not
just talking about it. And I think that's saying that
your actions speak loud strong than words is really important.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
So what did you do at Barodam with regard to
those sorts of things to teaching those kids.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yell social awareness? As students had to actually go out
into the community, and it was part of the program
at year eleven, but they went out for six weeks,
went into retirement villages, went into schools that needed some support,
went into places like food banks where they could see
the need and actually worked and did something about it.
(24:52):
And I think young people really respond to actually being
able to get their hands into something and not just
talk about it.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah. I was just thinking of the things that you
were talking about, going in to homes and hospitals or
where you can do something useful in it. I just
remember some of the things I've done with charity wise,
and there's one is a huge difference to doing something
that's detached from the reality of it and then suddenly
getting in and being hands on the ground and whatever
(25:23):
charity that you're involved with makes a huge difference, isn't it.
Actually we have got Graham. They we're going to give
a Graham a chance there, Hey Graham, Yeah, hello, Hey,
what values did you teach your kids and what did
you leave for your parents and your schools to teach them?
Speaker 5 (25:40):
Well? I was brought up in a Catholic family. I
had good parents who try to install me good values,
and they were all I was a youngster of six.
I've failed at times, but later on I learned about respect.
God turned my life around from drugs, alcohol and suicide
(26:04):
for my team, and then I ended up becoming a
father myself with two children that ended up with special needs.
They've got add all these different labels that they put
upon kids, But I just knew that.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
So you must have relied that. You must have relied
on their school to text me a bit of values
as well, I guess as well, if you weren't there
for them at the time.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Ah. My son went to a good school was Varsity
Lakes on the Gold Coast, near a place called Rabina.
And if my son was good and listening to the
teachers and so forth, they had a therapy dog that
was there. And my son loves animals and so he
got to spend time with the dog. You know.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Oh good stuff, No good stuff. Hey Graham, we're running
but short of time, so we'll keep moving on. But
thanks for your core mate, I appreciate it. It is
twenty four minutes to six News Talks, he'd be The
question we're looking at is just the role of the
of organizations like schools and other community organizations outside of
the home, and how far you expect your children's school
(27:10):
to teach your kids certain values and what should those
values be that you'd like them to be taught. It
is twenty three minutes to six. Back in the moth.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Oh yeah, swait a minute, this pro closed man.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Such a time.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
It's welcome back to the show. I'm Tim Beverager. This
is the weekend Collective Parents Parents Squad and my guest
is Sandy Pasley, who's a former principal at Barridine College,
which is a Catholic school. It's a very high performing school.
But what is the secret and not necessarily what's the secret,
but what's the role in teaching values to your children?
Because when we signed our kids up to Burrading, we
(27:59):
were clear about what sort of values the school was
going to be teaching our kids regardless of me. It
was aside from the religion side of things, because well,
basically I thought I wanted my kids to learn the
values that Buriing represented. But Sandy, one of the texts
that's coming has said talked about don't parents pick schools
(28:22):
based on their values? Not everyone can pick their schools,
can they? No?
Speaker 4 (28:26):
I mean it's great if parents have got a choice
and they've got the ability to move to a school
that they might see as espousing the same values that
they appreciate. But a lot of schools, for a lot
of people, they're zoned for a particular school, and it's
not possible.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
So what happens with this? What's the policy? Do you
know within the education of the way schools teach certain values,
because there are some values which is totally subjective.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
There's some pretty inherent values in our education system, as
I said about social justice, equality, learning, resilience, working hard,
being respectful.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, okay, So here's a question on consequences high sanity.
What consequences to teachers generally use now that corporal punishment
is not an option. I'm hearing you talking about presenting
a sense of purpose and value and worth, which I
imagine deter much bad behavior. Is that sort of part
of the whole thing is that we fell back too
(29:33):
much in corporal punishments like where you've stepped out of
line whack, rather than approaching it from a different angle.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yep. I think it's important for students to feel the
school that they go to that sense of belonging in
sense of community and sense of being part of something
that's special and more than themselves.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Really, is that the biggest part of it, because I
get the sense that that is probably one of the
most important things that kids get. Is I shouldn't say
kids all the time. Children is the community as just
being part of something that's bigger than themselves. If a
school gets that right, does a lot of it work
out for it? Does the rest sort of follow in
a way without having to get into the nitty gritty
(30:14):
about other values.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yes, it definitely does, I mean, and it's the same
for parents, and parents are part of that community too,
and they feel it's their school. You get that tremendous
support from parent body and that's some things like taking
sports teams and volunteering and just and also supporting when
(30:36):
a school makes a decision that they might.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
How do you manage that when you get resistance from
parents because you know it's a large community. How do
you manage the pushback from some parents to say, I
don't like what you've done there?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah? I think first of all, you've got to listen.
As a school and as a parent, you can understand
sometimes where they're coming from, but sometimes as a principal,
you've got to look at the greater You've got to
look at everybody and how that's affecting other people. So
you can't just say it doesn't matter that your child
(31:11):
does that. It does matter because it is affecting others.
So you've got to look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
How much of a conflict is there between being a
parent and being a principle for you, because well, they're
two different jobs, aren't they?
Speaker 4 (31:25):
But they I think they give you a really good
insight being a parent, which.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Was more useful, is much more useful to be a
parent if you were did being a principal help you
better with being a parent or did it being a
parent help you more with being a principle.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
I think being a parent helped me with being a principal.
You understand kids. You understand, they make mistakes, You realize,
you know how difficult it can be for them transitioning
certain times in their life. And I think you've got
that greater understanding. That's not to say somebody who's not
(32:01):
got children is not understanding, but it's it's.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Just an aspect of your life which you bring to
the job. I guess here's a text, he says, Hey, mate,
my children's school has a meet the teacher in term
four for the next year's class, and parents are giving
one given a one page of the new teachers values
and hobbies, et cetera, and things like that. The school
try is hard to match children to teachers and families
to see see the starts and values of the teachers,
(32:28):
and families aren't happy with the match for whatever reason.
Pros and cons with us, of course, because one year
the neighbors saw the teacher was a different religion to
theirs and took their kids out of that class. That's
a little problematic, isn't it. You been a little bit
too helpful?
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Absolutely goodness, I think that would be quite hard to
run a school like that.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yeah, okay, let's have a look at a couple of
other texts I, Sandy, what consequences? Oh, Sor, I've already
read that one. I've just got a little note for
you from someone who was taught you taught at y Tech.
It says Sandy Pasley was an inspiring and fun chemistry teacher.
When she taught me at why Tachi, we learned, well,
here's the list. We learned kindness, respect and responsibility from her.
(33:12):
Of great memories of having Sandy's baby daughter Penny in
the classroom. Thanks to Sandy, I passed bursary chemistry. Now
I love teaching chemistry to primary school children. So there
you go.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Oh that's so nice to Did you have your.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Baby with your class went back to work early?
Speaker 4 (33:29):
I did, and I can tell you a funny story
about that, because they were desperate for a chemistry teacher.
And I came back. I was on maternity leave and
Penny was a bit of a monkey on stage.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
She your baby daughter.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Yeah, she was underneath the desk when I was teaching
chemistry and she one day she took off all her
clothes and I had to get the whole class not
to react because otherwise it would have been something she
did all the time.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
That does sound a difficult one these days, doesn't it?
With THEE in a chemistry lab. Yeah, anyway, I look
what else we got. It's not a school's okay, it's
not a school's job to teach values, but it's vitally
important that the values of the school and in the
home are consistent or at least simpatico with each other.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
Well.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
That seems like a bit of common sense, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Definitely?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
So what are you up to from now that you've
we haven't retired, you have your former principal at Barode
But what's what are the challenges that you're working on
now in education?
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Well, Tim, I've set up a company as an education consultant,
and what I'd like to do is support the education
in Auckland in ways that I can, especially leaders in
Auckland principles.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah, was it hard to leave the job of being
principal at Baradine.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Very I loved it.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, I imagine it must have been a hell of it.
In fact, I imagine you probably have to keep away
for a little bit, don't you, Because when you've been
a principle of some standing in that community, you sort
of got to remove yourself from the shadow of the
or not cast your shadow, I guess, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Or Alex the new Principal's fantastic. So I think Baradine's
future is in great hands.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Yeah, hey, look, we'd love to have you back sometime.
That has flown by, and it's lovely to have you
in the studio. Thanks so much, and we'll look forard
to catching you know.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Thanks very much, Tom, I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Cheers. We'll be back in just a moment with sport.
Who's joining us? Nathan Lim will be joining us in
just a moment. This is news Talk, said B. It's
coming up to twelve minutes to six.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Can I take for more from the weekend collective. Listen
live to News Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Explanation of the World.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. By the way,
if you've missed any of the previous hours, always an
interesting chat with Kelvin Davidson from core Logic on what
the property market's doing and whether it matters whether you're
buying a new house or an old one. But if
you've missed and up, my goodness that the panel today
with Luke Dallo and Carmacdonald was raucus and quite good fun.
(00:53):
Actually it was a lot of fun. But if you've
missed any of the ours and you feel you'd like
a distraction from you to day, then go and check
out the podcast. Go to the Weekend Collective on iHeartRadio.
But now it's time for the Parents Squad, and we've
got a new guest on the show, which is sort
of all my fault because she is the former principal
at Bardine College. She's I wouldn't say she's retired, she's
the former principal. She's moved on to a few other things.
(01:15):
And her name is Sandy Pasley and Sandy is with
me now, Sandy, good afternoon. How are you doing.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
I'm great, Tim, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Thanks for coming on board. By the way, we thought
we'd just ease you in with that song. We always
have a song choice, and you didn't necessarily have a
choice of song, but you said I like a bit
of the Carpenter and who doesn't because and you coincided
with my producer Tyra, who I think Tyra is a
big fan of the Carpenters as well. So that's just
to ease it into it. Hey, Now, the question for
you out there on one hundred and eighty ten to
eighty is the question of values and who's responsible for
(01:49):
teaching your children values? And that sounds like a really
dumb question, doesn't it, Because you'd instantly say, well, the parents,
of course, in the family. But who else do you
trust to instill values into your children? Because you know,
as the saying goes, it's it takes what is the saying,
It takes a village. That's the one, thank you, Tira.
(02:10):
It takes a village. So it's one thing for parents
to have a role on the values that they want
their children to grow up with and to take on.
But of course they're not the only influence in their
children's lives. Their sports clubs are influencers, the dance schools
they go to, the and the schools. And so how
(02:32):
far do you think schools should go when it comes
to well, what is the school's role in teaching values
to kids? And that I know that can be a
triggering question because you might think, well, that school's got
ideas about X, Y and Z that I don't agree
with at all. But schools are there to educate our kids,
and it's not just about teaching them that one on
one is too and how to read and write and
(02:54):
all that sort of thing, and the more sophisticated learnings
that they get to when when they're older. Values are
a huge part of it. So, Sandy, you're obviously from
a school barot In College that's a special character school
in the form of being a Catholic school. How importantly
did you take the question of values in addition to
(03:16):
teaching scholarly issues.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I think it's incredibly important him. I think values are
what make having strong values or what make a good
community person. And the role of schools is surely to
educate a community so that they become really valued members
(03:41):
of that community and are able to contribute, and that's
the whole point of governments being involved in schools is
so that the population is educated and educated in such
a way that they are all good community members.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Because values are also subjective, aren't they. So I guess
it's easier when you're with a school like Barridine there
is a specific charter and people know when they send
their children. There's a buy in, isn't there Definitely, Whereas
I guess if somebody is going to just the college
that they're in zone or the school they're in zone.
But there's still a role for a huge role for
(04:17):
schools to play. It's just like, I guess, how far
can they go with teaching values? Do you think?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I think even any school has got an important role
playing imparting values for instance, social justice, the importance of
social justice, the importance of equality, and the importance of
being responsible for others as well as yourself. Those things,
no matter whether you're at a Catholic school or a
(04:44):
state school or a private school, all really important.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I meant to actually sorry, I needed one of the
audience to get to know you a little bit, so
I launched into the question there because I was running hot.
But how long have you been involved in an education
yourself or roughly? Actually actually no, no, let's just shorten
that one. You were a principal of Bardeene College for
how long?
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Thirteen and a half years, and before that, I was
principal of Saint Mary's College in Pontsmbe for nine and
a half years, and before that I was deputy principal
at Birkenhead College on the North Shore.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Okay, because you and before that you're teaching, you're a teacher.
Obviously before you come on principal. It's chemistry. You're bad,
was it?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
That's right?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Wow? What made you get into chemistry?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
I did a degree in chemistry at a target university,
which I loved and so much so that when I
finished the degree, I didn't really feel like I wanted
to leave and went back for another year post grad.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah. Oh, that's just what my students do when you
haven't quite worked out what you're going to do. I guess,
is that right exactly?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
And in those days you could get a studentship and
be paid to go to university, which I appealed to
me in those times at that time, because I was
really quite feeling like I needed some money not relying
on my appearance. So I actually took up a studentship,
and with that studentship meant I had to teach for
a year.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
OK so you sort of you sort of fell into
teaching in a way because that was just a requirement.
And then what did you think, this is not so bad?
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Yep, exactly that. I really perhaps, looking back, I didn't
choose to be a teacher when I was younger. Yeah,
but it got under my skin.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Really was it an instant thing? Or as soon as
you did it you just sort of thought, I mean,
you must have had some good kids as well at
your teaching, because if you'd had a bunch of rat bags,
it might have been a bit less fun. I'm guessing. Sorry.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I think when I was a young teacher, I wasn't
that good. I can't remember having it. Probably in those
days they had classes streamed and I had four C two,
which was the lowest science class in form four in
at wait take you girls? Yeah, and I found them
quite uncontrollable sometimes, so I resorted to things I wasn't
(07:00):
supposed to do, like send them out of the classroom
to stand outside of like I really annoyed at them.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, well, that doesn't sound too radical, does it? When
did you just? When did? When did leaderships? When did
taking roles like being a deputy principal? When did that
become part of your sort of picture?
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I guess I loved the classroom and I love teaching,
but I also saw the benefit of being able to
influence things on a wider scale, and that's what you
can do in senior leadership in particular as a principle.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Does it when you do end up in those positions,
does it make you examine how hard do you have
to think about what, in fact you do want to
impart to young people? And how how far a school
can go in having a say in values, because there'd
be certain social issues where families would think, actually, that
school should have nothing to do with it. How did
(07:54):
was that a different Was it an interesting journey for
you working out that side of things?
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I think it was. It was really important to me
that students get the opportunity to be educated now, and
I guess that was inherent because my mother certainly went
through high school, but my father was never given the
opportunity to go to high school. And I saw what
a very able man he was, and how much. It
(08:21):
really affected his life not being able to go to
high school and how empowering education is and what a
responsibility we have to ensure that every student in New
Zealand gets your opportunity to have a fantastic education.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Do you think general schools, I mean, this is hard
to make a judgment on this sort of thing, but
do you think that we're doing a good job with
outside of the family home, with the institutions like schools
of teaching kids about values or are people a bit
Is it something that you sort of tread lightly because
I know you get the wrong message out there, or
something that parents give you a hard time and then
(08:57):
all of a sudden you're like, hang on, are we
right doing that? What do you think?
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Oh? I think it's important because I think that not
only should you be saying and educating about values, but
you should also be modeling it in the school. And
I think that's something that parents sometimes as a parent
it's hard you say what you think, but are you
really modeling it to your children? And that's always more
(09:23):
difficult as a parent.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
It's easier in a way for schools, doesn't it to
sort of push that values because you're not around the
twenty four to seven where you can be accused of hypocrisy.
Swearing would be the classic one where you say to
your kids, don't use that sort of language. Well, dad,
but I've heard you say that word. And I go, well,
and I must say, I think I have fallen back
on the line. It's like, Okay, I've got to be honest.
(09:46):
I think I've said to them once. Look, I can
get away with it because I'm better at picking my
context and all that sort of thing. And I think
I'm worried to lose in the argument. But does it
always have to be? Do you always have to exactly
mirror the values you're teaching your kids? Look, you're going
to tell me, yes, it is.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
I think you should.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yes, definitely to But it's harder for parents though, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:08):
It is If you say that you really care and
about others and you don't want to make sure they're okay,
and then you, as a parent, don't show that by
something that you do. It's really hard. You know, what
are your children picking up on? And it's really hard.
Nobody's perfect. We'll all make mistakes.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Well, I guess that's part of it as well. Is
that if you make mistakes, and it's how you deal
with that side of things. I always I do struggle
with the whole hypocrisy things because I guess, for instance,
there are rules around what adults and children count and
can't do, and they're different. There's a different set of
rules as well around alcohol and things like that, and
so I don't know. I'm not sure how to manage that.
(10:50):
But we're probably getting off the topic here, but we
want your cause on this, by the way, is who's
responsible for teaching your kids' values core values? And if
you are looking for support beyond that your home on
teaching your kids' values, what are the values they are
actually important to you that the school supports your children
in learning. What do you think some core values are
(11:14):
sandy when it comes to schools and other parts of
the community supporting parents with that well, I.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Think it's important that each student feels that they have
got something special and that they are confident, and I
really believe that. I think that if you feel good
about yourself, then you'll certainly support and help other people.
I think that if the child is not feeling good
about themselves, it's very difficult for them to look outside themselves.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
How important for you then at Barradine. And look, it's
not for you to be singing the praises of Barradine,
but Baradine at least when it comes to academic results,
features up the top. There, along with some other very
fine schools, is part of that academic success absolutely contingent
on the value side of things, which is a difficult question.
(12:10):
I know, yes, because you can really drum things into
people and people can you know, learn by fear? And
I mean I learned a lot about in one particular
class because I was terrified of the teacher back in
the days of corporal punishment, and I probably learned a lot.
And I'm not sure that was the right way to
learn it. But then again, there was the teacher. I
probably learned the most from mister Paul when I was
(12:31):
eight years old. He he taught us well because we
loved him. He was great fun. He made us feel
ten feet high. I think every kid in that class
felt special that that Again, that wasn't so much about values,
I don't think, well, maybe it was his there was,
Maybe there was some sort of values lesson in the
way he treated us like individual respected human beings even
(12:55):
though were eight year old, little troublesome upstarts.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Yep. And I think you probably absorbed that and he
cared about you. Yeah, And I think that that's what
teach do. They can look at who's in front of
them and think, I really care about these students. Now,
how do I get the best out of them? And
as for academic success, I think the reason academic success
(13:20):
is good if each student reaches their potential, is it
opens doors for the future and it's really a gate
opening process where it means that they have got possibilities.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Is it more difficult because one of the things we
had I think you might have caught this hour we
had with the principle of Vanguard School as well, which
surprised me. I was expecting a discussion which was all
about what we did cover off discipline and things. But
it was interesting about what was driving their success. But
(13:53):
the question around discipline, how much does that play a
part in it? Because we live in a society where
we obviously don't have physical discipline and I'm quite glad
about that, But how important a role is that in
educating kids?
Speaker 4 (14:08):
And I think it's important in students if they make mistakes,
there are consequences, and I think that's what's hard about
being a parent is teaching your child consequences at an
early stage. I think the most difficult thing for schools
is when parents and schools are not on the same page.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
And how is that possible from because it's there's hundreds
of parents and hundreds of students in one school. What
are the sort of are they sort of non negotiable
I don't mean non negotiable, but what are the clear
areas of easy overlap? Do you think?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Well? I think sometimes with schools, a student may make
a mistake and the school may want the student to
learn from that mistake, and it needs really the parents
to be on board with that learning because if it
doesn't happen, the consequences down the track when they leave
school and they realize, you know, they've been not made
(15:10):
to face consequences, it can be quite serious if they
do silly things.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
So actually, if we were talking about this off I
was going to say, off camera, off Mike before the
show started, because you have When you were the principal
at Barrideen, you would meet every student, There'd be a
get together and the student would be front and center,
Mum and dad just on the side there, but you
would interview them. Was that an important part of sort
(15:36):
of like an informal contract or agreement. This is what
our school's about, this is what we expect. Is that
an important thing for you?
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Is it exactly exactly? Tim ittt was really important and
being a Catholic school was really important that the parents
were buying into all that meant and hence the discussion
because I think it's important people know and therefore there's
no surprises, it's transparent.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, okay, look your calls on this, Sandy and I
are going to continue chatting about this, about the role that,
as they say, it takes a village, parents, caregivers, family community.
But and parents do their best. We all do our
best to instill the values that we hold dear, But
what are the what role do you tolerate? I guess
would be the slightly more stronger way of asking the question,
(16:25):
what role do you tolerate your school making when it
comes to teaching kids' values? And I know, look, I've
had a couple of texts with saying that they've got
no business none, they're not your values. But I don't
think anyone seriously thinks they don't expect your kids to learn.
Children to learn some significant values in the way that
(16:46):
they treat others and the way they respond to challenges
and all those sorts of things. So what do you
think and where does when do parents actually have to
start checking out of that equation? If ever, we'd love
your calls on it. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
text on nine two nine two. My guest is Sandy Pasley,
she's a former principal at Barriding College. We'll be back
in just a moment. News Talk z bun by myself.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
By week the.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
News Talk zed b. My name's Tim Beverages. You know,
my guest is Sandy Pasley, who's the former princill at
baradin College. Now the idea, the idea to get Sandy
on the show as well was because she is I
haven't had hidden which school my kids go to. Of
course I share a little bit about them, but they
do go to Baradene College. And for me, the journey
to as a non I'm an atheist, as someone who's
(17:50):
not religious, the decision to go along with my wife's
decision to send my children to Baradine was huge. But
that's why I'm fascinated with the role of values, because
while I have a different view religiously, i was brought
up in an Anglican schoo all myself, and I've always
thought that the discussion around values and ethics and morals
(18:11):
and things, and that the religion comes in and out
of that equation is a fascinating one because in the end,
we don't want to just turn out kids who know lots.
We want to turn out good people. So we're taking
your cause on how important it is for your school
to teach your children values. And Sandy's with us right now,
and I'll shut up and we'll talk to Graham.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Hello, oh hello, how's it going all right?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Thanks? What you got a question or an observation? What
would you like to say.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
More than observation. I've been living in Queensland, Australia for
probably about four years. I've got two children over there,
my daughter's sixteen and my son's nineteen, and I would
have loved to have bought them up, but with their
(19:01):
special needs and that they were with the grand care
parents for probably for probably a good eight years or
so until my mother in law passed away, probably longer
with my son and my daughter, and so that's one
of the reasons I went over there. I've just come
(19:22):
back to New Zealand for a while because I've had
an auntie that passed away and the other auntie hasn't
been well.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
You've got a couple of teenagers. I gather they're nineteen
and sixteen now.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Ah yeah, no, the both of them are bigger than
me now, so they're both different from one another. My
son Caleb, his likes adventure and when we had that
cyclone over there, he disappeared because he wanted to ghost
from the flooded creek.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
How did you influence how did you influence their values?
Then we can bring it on to our the sort
of focus of our conversation, how you influenced their values
or have you had to trust others to do it?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Graham, I've had.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
A good support network. Both my parents have passed away,
and I haven't been that close to my immediate family
because I mean they've had their own kids and so forth.
And but just I'm part of a church group or
network because I've been to different ones and I've just
(20:23):
tried to get my son, my daughter. It's a bit
different she's not, so she's such struggling with.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Got a question you'd like to put to Sandy. I've
got to hear, so I want to bring her own
on the conversation.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
Was it, yeah, oh sure, okay, this kind of thing
because my children they dropped out of school just like
a year or two ago.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Yeah, look, I might just put you on hold there
and Graham and Steff my produce might have a quick
tat to this if you want to pass on a
question for Sandy. But actually that isn't that is a
What Graham has mentioned is we've got broken families all
the time, and the challenge of it it is of
who's raising your children? So I don't even know what
(21:10):
to say apart from that, what how on a second,
let's see have Graham's still there? No, No, I'll tell
you what. We'll move on from that, because I don't
think we're going to get to the point on that. Hey, Sandy,
he's a text here that says, hello, Tim and Sandy.
When I went to school, he called your teacher mister
or missus. Now it's on a first name basis a
small point, but a fundamental slip in respect. Thanks mister Tim.
(21:32):
That's from Shane. Yeah, does it matter how what a
school's policy is on names? Is that is there something
in respect on that or is that? What do you
reckon Sandy.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Well, I think some schools that might be the case,
but also a lot of schools probably still call the
teacher mister or missus or miss and I think that's
all part of a value in society. We have respect
for doctors, we call them doctor so and so, and
(22:04):
it's learning that people have a title and it's nice
to be respecting of that title. But also the same
I'd say teachers also respect students as.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Well, because and in the end, it doesn't matter what
you're being called if you're not. If you're not treating
your children or the students with respect, then you're probably
not going to end much back in return, are you No?
Speaker 4 (22:28):
I agree entirely, And students pick up on that pretty quickly.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
At Barradine, What were the values for that you think
were important to instill in your students that were, you know,
the fundamental ones that were also an important part of
their education.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
I think the big one is respect is respecting who
you are. Because we were Catholic. Catholic school it's respecting
that everyone has been given life that's precious, and we
respect each other but also respect ourselves, and that respect
has to be fundamental through a school for a school
(23:10):
to function well. I also think those values of social
justice are really important. It's and that one of the
goals at Baradene was social justice impals to action. It's
not enough to see what needs to be done, it's
actually important to do it. And that's where you get
opportunities to actually be of service to the community. Which
(23:32):
is important.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Is that one of the is that one of the
things where we it's one of the modern society traps
that we have. I don't want to generalize, because we
all do, don't we But I might say if I
was generalizing that there is a lot of virtue signaling
that goes on with perhaps the younger generation, but in
society in general, people say this is what I stand for.
(23:55):
I believe in X, Y and Z or saving the
planet or whatever. But they're not following it up. They're not.
It's all words and it's not they're not making a
difference anyone except their friends on social media. Do you
think that that's a big that's something we need to
work on more.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yeah, I do. And that's why that goal is so
important that impels to action doing something about it, not
just talking about it. And I think that's saying that
your actions speak loud strong than words is really important.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
So what did you do at Barodam with regard to
those sorts of things to teaching those kids.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yell social awareness? As students had to actually go out
into the community, and it was part of the program
at year eleven, but they went out for six weeks,
went into retirement villages, went into schools that needed some support,
went into places like food banks where they could see
the need and actually worked and did something about it.
(24:52):
And I think young people really respond to actually being
able to get their hands into something and not just
talk about it.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah. I was just thinking of the things that you
were talking about, going in to homes and hospitals or
where you can do something useful in it. I just
remember some of the things I've done with charity wise,
and there's one is a huge difference to doing something
that's detached from the reality of it and then suddenly
getting in and being hands on the ground and whatever
(25:23):
charity that you're involved with makes a huge difference, isn't it.
Actually we have got Graham. They we're going to give
a Graham a chance there, Hey Graham, Yeah, hello, Hey,
what values did you teach your kids and what did
you leave for your parents and your schools to teach them?
Speaker 5 (25:40):
Well? I was brought up in a Catholic family. I
had good parents who try to install me good values,
and they were all I was a youngster of six.
I've failed at times, but later on I learned about respect.
God turned my life around from drugs, alcohol and suicide
(26:04):
for my team, and then I ended up becoming a
father myself with two children that ended up with special needs.
They've got add all these different labels that they put
upon kids, But I just knew that.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
So you must have relied that. You must have relied
on their school to text me a bit of values
as well, I guess as well, if you weren't there
for them at the time.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Ah. My son went to a good school was Varsity
Lakes on the Gold Coast, near a place called Rabina.
And if my son was good and listening to the
teachers and so forth, they had a therapy dog that
was there. And my son loves animals and so he
got to spend time with the dog. You know.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Oh good stuff, No good stuff. Hey Graham, we're running
but short of time, so we'll keep moving on. But
thanks for your core mate, I appreciate it. It is
twenty four minutes to six News Talks, he'd be The
question we're looking at is just the role of the
of organizations like schools and other community organizations outside of
the home, and how far you expect your children's school
(27:10):
to teach your kids certain values and what should those
values be that you'd like them to be taught. It
is twenty three minutes to six. Back in the moth.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Oh yeah, swait a minute, this pro closed man.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Such a time.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
It's welcome back to the show. I'm Tim Beverager. This
is the weekend Collective Parents Parents Squad and my guest
is Sandy Pasley, who's a former principal at Barridine College,
which is a Catholic school. It's a very high performing school.
But what is the secret and not necessarily what's the secret,
but what's the role in teaching values to your children?
Because when we signed our kids up to Burrading, we
(27:59):
were clear about what sort of values the school was
going to be teaching our kids regardless of me. It
was aside from the religion side of things, because well,
basically I thought I wanted my kids to learn the
values that Buriing represented. But Sandy, one of the texts
that's coming has said talked about don't parents pick schools
(28:22):
based on their values? Not everyone can pick their schools,
can they? No?
Speaker 4 (28:26):
I mean it's great if parents have got a choice
and they've got the ability to move to a school
that they might see as espousing the same values that
they appreciate. But a lot of schools, for a lot
of people, they're zoned for a particular school, and it's
not possible.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
So what happens with this? What's the policy? Do you
know within the education of the way schools teach certain values,
because there are some values which is totally subjective.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
There's some pretty inherent values in our education system, as
I said about social justice, equality, learning, resilience, working hard,
being respectful.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, okay, So here's a question on consequences high sanity.
What consequences to teachers generally use now that corporal punishment
is not an option. I'm hearing you talking about presenting
a sense of purpose and value and worth, which I
imagine deter much bad behavior. Is that sort of part
of the whole thing is that we fell back too
(29:33):
much in corporal punishments like where you've stepped out of
line whack, rather than approaching it from a different angle.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yep. I think it's important for students to feel the
school that they go to that sense of belonging in
sense of community and sense of being part of something
that's special and more than themselves.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Really, is that the biggest part of it, because I
get the sense that that is probably one of the
most important things that kids get. Is I shouldn't say
kids all the time. Children is the community as just
being part of something that's bigger than themselves. If a
school gets that right, does a lot of it work
out for it? Does the rest sort of follow in
a way without having to get into the nitty gritty
(30:14):
about other values.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yes, it definitely does, I mean, and it's the same
for parents, and parents are part of that community too,
and they feel it's their school. You get that tremendous
support from parent body and that's some things like taking
sports teams and volunteering and just and also supporting when
(30:36):
a school makes a decision that they might.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
How do you manage that when you get resistance from
parents because you know it's a large community. How do
you manage the pushback from some parents to say, I
don't like what you've done there?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah? I think first of all, you've got to listen.
As a school and as a parent, you can understand
sometimes where they're coming from, but sometimes as a principal,
you've got to look at the greater You've got to
look at everybody and how that's affecting other people. So
you can't just say it doesn't matter that your child
(31:11):
does that. It does matter because it is affecting others.
So you've got to look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
How much of a conflict is there between being a
parent and being a principle for you, because well, they're
two different jobs, aren't they?
Speaker 4 (31:25):
But they I think they give you a really good
insight being a parent, which.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Was more useful, is much more useful to be a
parent if you were did being a principal help you
better with being a parent or did it being a
parent help you more with being a principle.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
I think being a parent helped me with being a principal.
You understand kids. You understand, they make mistakes, You realize,
you know how difficult it can be for them transitioning
certain times in their life. And I think you've got
that greater understanding. That's not to say somebody who's not
(32:01):
got children is not understanding, but it's it's.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Just an aspect of your life which you bring to
the job. I guess here's a text, he says, Hey, mate,
my children's school has a meet the teacher in term
four for the next year's class, and parents are giving
one given a one page of the new teachers values
and hobbies, et cetera, and things like that. The school
try is hard to match children to teachers and families
to see see the starts and values of the teachers,
(32:28):
and families aren't happy with the match for whatever reason.
Pros and cons with us, of course, because one year
the neighbors saw the teacher was a different religion to
theirs and took their kids out of that class. That's
a little problematic, isn't it. You been a little bit
too helpful?
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Absolutely goodness, I think that would be quite hard to
run a school like that.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yeah, okay, let's have a look at a couple of
other texts I, Sandy, what consequences? Oh, Sor, I've already
read that one. I've just got a little note for
you from someone who was taught you taught at y Tech.
It says Sandy Pasley was an inspiring and fun chemistry teacher.
When she taught me at why Tachi, we learned, well,
here's the list. We learned kindness, respect and responsibility from her.
(33:12):
Of great memories of having Sandy's baby daughter Penny in
the classroom. Thanks to Sandy, I passed bursary chemistry. Now
I love teaching chemistry to primary school children. So there
you go.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Oh that's so nice to Did you have your.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Baby with your class went back to work early?
Speaker 4 (33:29):
I did, and I can tell you a funny story
about that, because they were desperate for a chemistry teacher.
And I came back. I was on maternity leave and
Penny was a bit of a monkey on stage.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
She your baby daughter.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Yeah, she was underneath the desk when I was teaching
chemistry and she one day she took off all her
clothes and I had to get the whole class not
to react because otherwise it would have been something she
did all the time.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
That does sound a difficult one these days, doesn't it?
With THEE in a chemistry lab. Yeah, anyway, I look
what else we got. It's not a school's okay, it's
not a school's job to teach values, but it's vitally
important that the values of the school and in the
home are consistent or at least simpatico with each other.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
Well.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
That seems like a bit of common sense, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Definitely?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
So what are you up to from now that you've
we haven't retired, you have your former principal at Barode
But what's what are the challenges that you're working on
now in education?
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Well, Tim, I've set up a company as an education consultant,
and what I'd like to do is support the education
in Auckland in ways that I can, especially leaders in
Auckland principles.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah, was it hard to leave the job of being
principal at Baradine.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Very I loved it.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, I imagine it must have been a hell of it.
In fact, I imagine you probably have to keep away
for a little bit, don't you, Because when you've been
a principle of some standing in that community, you sort
of got to remove yourself from the shadow of the
or not cast your shadow, I guess, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Or Alex the new Principal's fantastic. So I think Baradine's
future is in great hands.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Yeah, hey, look, we'd love to have you back sometime.
That has flown by, and it's lovely to have you
in the studio. Thanks so much, and we'll look forard
to catching you know.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Thanks very much, Tom, I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Cheers. We'll be back in just a moment with sport.
Who's joining us? Nathan Lim will be joining us in
just a moment. This is news Talk, said B. It's
coming up to twelve minutes to six.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Can I take for more from the weekend collective. Listen
live to News Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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