August 10, 2025 • 41 mins
Most New Zealanders consider themselves only “average” with money.
In fact, a new study from Partners Life finds less than a quarter of New Zealanders rate their financial knowledge as "excellent".
Nearly 60 percent find it tough to pay monthly expenses, and just over half reported stress or losing sleep due to money concerns.
At the same time, many are reportedly using credit and afterpay services to make ends meet.
How do we improve financial literacy? What can we put into practice now?
Banqer CEO Simon Brown joins Tim Beveridge for Smart Money...
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It's welcome to the Weekend Collective and welcome back in
the case you've been with us for the past couple
of hours hours, this is smart Money. We want your
calls on eight hundred eighty, ten eighty or text nine two.
Now most New Zealanders apparently consider themselves was only average
with money. I'm actually surprised it's that good. I've imagined
people with a lot of people who be writing themselves off.
(01:12):
So there's In fact, there's been a new study from
Partner's Life which finds less than a quarter of New
Zealanders rate their financial knowledge is excellent. Less than a quarter.
That still sounds quite high for me. I was expecting
it to be something like five percent. Anyway. At the
same time, close to half sorry next, nearly sixty percent
find it tough to pay monthly expenses. That's not a surprise,
(01:34):
and just over half reported stress or losing sleep due
to money concerns. Not surprised with that one either. At
the same time, close to half are reportedly using credit
and after pay services to make ends meet. It's safe
to assume those stats ll go hand in hand. So
how do we boost financial literacy? I mean, would that
be a cue to these ills or would we simply
(01:55):
be literate enough to go I'm stuffed. Anyway, financial education
is going to be introduced into schools next year, but
what could adults put into practice? Now want your cause
on this, but joining us to discuss it. As a
new guest on our show, he's from an organization called
Banker b a n q eer. He's the CEO, and
he's Simon Brown and he's with us. Now, okaday, Simon,
(02:17):
how are you going?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Good things? Then? Great to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Hey, what's Banker?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah? So Banker we're an online financial education provider for
schools and essentially we teach kids about how money works
in the real world so that they don't have to
learn by trial and era like potentially their parents did.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, and how's it?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
How?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
How when did you become financially literate yourself?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And it's a great question, and we what would I
determine is to be financially literate? I think I've always
had a natural curiosity with money, So I think when
I left home around seventeen or eighteen, I probably left
home with a decent grounding and probably at that point
started to explore money more and get a solid understanding
of how it works in the real world.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's financial literacy just about being good at maths in
a way, because I sometimes wonder whether there are blocks
to financial literacy almost emotional as well, because you don't
want to know too much because you don't want to
know how potentially screwed you are.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot built into financial lipsy. I
think I think it's part science, part art. I mean,
one aspect of it is just purely understanding the definite
definition of financial concepts, as you've touched on obviously understanding math.
But then there's so much money psychology and money personality
comes into it, and you can probably see yourself doing
(03:46):
things that are reflective of you as a person, and
I think that's all sort of built into it.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Actually, how much difference do you think it would make
teaching people financial literacy when there are so many I mean,
I don't know how you can observe this yourself through
what you do, but when there's so much psychology play
Because you might explain to someone financial literacy, but if
they're a spend thrift, can they help themselves. Does it
help with those personality traits which might actually undercut them.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I think knowledge is power and understanding financial concepts goes
a long way. But to your point, yes, I think
personality has a large impact. I think probably the example
that comes to mind for mayor families and kids raised
by the same parents, potentially with the same understanding of
financial concepts, but yet they can be very different in
the way they interact with the financial world.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So what work tell us a bit more about the
work that you do. Do you do stuff through an app?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, So we've got a platform which we provide to
schools throughout Australasia right from primary through to secondary and
essentially we cared a simulation of the real world. So
students are introduced to financial concepts, the types of concepts
that you and I should be interacting with or maybe
not internected with so much on a DA basis, and
then we provide them with an environment where they can
(05:08):
put that into practice. So they have mock online bank accounts,
they earn a fictitious wage, they pay classroom expenses and
roll in fictitious key resaver, take out insurance, they invest
all those sorts of things that as I say we
should be doing as adults.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I mean, how much of that stuff should people? I mean,
when is the right time to teach your kids about
financial literacy. I don't know if you've got kids or
anything yourself, but.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, yeah, we're not got at the stage of introducing
our son into financial concepts. But I think the general
consensus is sooner the better. Research would suggest that from
age three, students or kids can bark grasp basic money concepts,
and by age seven sort of financial behaviors are ingrained.
So the sooner we start, the better. As to what
(05:55):
age we should be introduced to different concepts, there's a
few different theories out there, and it really just scaffolds
up from a basic understanding of money.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So what did you make of the findings of that
that study that were you surprised by those numbers? I'm
kind of surprised. So less than a quarter of New
Zealanders rate their financial knowledge as excellent. I would have
thought it would have been lower because nearly sixty percent
found it tough to pay month and expenses. But yeah,
(06:24):
what did you think of the numbers in terms of
adults confidence and competencies?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah, I mean, to your point. I think, yeah, the
fact that twenty three percent to rate their financial knowledge
is excellent is somewhat surprising. I probably tend to agree
with you, and I would have thought that number would
have been lower. But sort of the flow on effects
of that in terms of how we're stacking up on
a day to day basis, in terms of looking at
(06:51):
the sort of duty percent of people have lost over
two hundred dollars in the last year due to avoidable
fees accental purchase for godd and subscriptions, sixty percent finding
it difficult to keep up monthly with monthly expenses, and
forty four percent relying on credit cards and the lights
of buying out pay later. That didn't particularly surprise me.
It's tough times out there, and I think a lot
(07:12):
of these speak to in part sort of financial education
in the state of financial litersy in New Zealand, and
also that did it as charging financially as well.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
But what do you think the secret robbers of wealth are?
I mean, we can look obviously, if you've started sticking
cumulative money into a bank account and rely on communative interest,
you'd be feeling pretty good about things. In fact, I
think I saw something about lotto that if you instead
buying the a lotto ticket, if you just stuck ten
or fifteen bucks a week into the bank account and
did that through your life, you'd come out with some
(07:41):
like one hundred and sixty grand. Ah, but just a
bit depressing when you're sort of middle aged. You think, well,
I would have done that, but I didn't.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah. Look, I think to my mind, a lot of
it comes to back to a really basic concept that
we recommend teachers or parents introduced the kids at a
early agent. That is the difference between wants and needs.
And I think if you can master that goes a
long way towards I guess living a financially responsible life
and being able to make the right financial decisions to yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I think the other one, which is a bit more
of an advanced concept, is working out. I mean, we
all have to spend money on different things to do
with a house and renovations and things, but understanding and
working out the future value of money in other words,
it's something I mean, I've been going through the whole thing.
Is it better to pay to renovate the house now
(08:33):
and you just pay it off as quickly as possible,
or should I wait until I've got more money in
the bank account. But then again it's going to be
more expensive to do it, but at least understanding what
the future value of money is going to look like,
and you know what I mean. Those are more sophisticated
concepts for people to get their heads around, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yeah, absolutely that. Yeah, that is a complex concept which
does take it to greve. I think financial literacy to
sort of contemplate, and I think then when you take
into consideration the desires gratification as well, I think a
lot of people that will in just being money in
the here and now rather than think about too far
into the future as well.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
What's your take on that though, because I will use
an expression I've used before. It's not necessarily my philosophy,
but it's the battle that goes on. So I and
I've heard people say this as well, that you know,
you can save and save and save and think all
about your retirement and doing this, and then you can
get to your retirement and look back on a life
(09:35):
that you haven't lived.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah. I think there's definitely balance to be had, there
isn't there. Yeah, And again there's a lot of work
being done into the psychology of money and and happiness
is happiness as well, and into connectivity. And I don't
think I've got an answer, but to my mind, it's
about finding that balance and investing in the things that
make you happy while still preparing for the future.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I mean, what's your approach to it in terms of
your own attitudes towards money, because you're in a tricky
situation because you I have your own little proclivities which
you sort of think, well, to be honest, here's my
guilty confession, but you might be likely to be honest.
You know, we haven't quite saved up the money to
have a holiday, but god, I really need a holiday.
And you guess what kids were off to? Japan?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, my parents would agree, but that I've always been
a bit of a scrooge when it comes to money,
So I've always been relatively slow to part with money.
And that's I wouldn't say a conflicts in my relationship
with my wife over the years, but I think she's
definitely taught me to spend more in than now and
to enjoy enjoy spending my money and to enjoy the
(10:39):
experiences that that creates. But yes, I've probably been out
of balance in that regard. So for me, there's always
that I've always monitoring myself and making sure that I
am I am spending money in the here and now
to enjoy things.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I've come up with another and a good name for
another website on financial advice, which was probably been taken already,
which would be Scrooge dot co dot and said probably not.
I'm not sure if that would work as a business concept,
but look, we want your cause on this. Also, what
is it with you in financial literacy? And how do
you rate your own skills? But if you were to
(11:16):
be interested in getting into financial literacy, what would be
what would it that would be that would get in
your way? Would it be the academic side of it?
Would it be the emotional psychology of it, because you
maybe don't want to know too much about how good
or bad your situation is. Of course, if you've got
millions sitting in the bank, you might be like, yeah,
I'd love to be more financial literate because you know
(11:37):
you're not going to get bad news. So what is
it that's holding you back? Eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty You can text on nine two nine two and Yeah,
we're talking with We're talking with the CEO of banker.
His name is Simon Brown, and we'll be actually back
in a moment. We're going to go straight to Linda
good A.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Linda, Hi, Yes, my husband and I wanted some investment advice.
I'm sixty six and my husband well sixty five next July.
We own our own home mortgage free. We've got about
thirty thousand dollars at the moment, and we're saving about
ten thousand dollars a month, which we're actually putting into
(12:18):
turn deposits at the bank. But the indust rates are
not looking good, so is there a better option?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Okay, before before Simon answers that, he will say that
he's not able to give you specific financial advice, but
we can talk in some general themes. But I do
have to say that to save Simon having to say it,
I'll be the gooseberry there.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
We wondered about putting it into my key. We save
it because we can access it.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
By the way, can I just say, Linder, you're saving
ten thousand bucks a month?
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Yeah, because I'm on the tench and working three days
a week.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well, Peter was not going to give you ten thousand
bucks a month. He must be working. Good on you.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
My husband's still working as well.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Oh, good on you. Well that is okay, right, Any
thoughts on that because yeah, the interest rates. While obviously
borrowers want interest rates to go down, it's not good
for savers simon. So any any themes we can talk
about that Linda could think about or consider.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I think prove the thing that we've just touched on
now around but now there's the future in terms of
spending in the moment to enjoy life and putting enough
away for the future. And I think a good financial
advice will be able to help navigate you through that
conversation in terms of understanding, yeah, what you need to
be putting away and what you can be spending in
here and now. Yeah, but I don't go too much
(13:36):
further than that without going to the financial adalth realm
for vice realms.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
So we're putting it into we're putting it into my key,
we savor where we can access it. They're a little
bit better than I know. We all want to lose it.
But yeah, there's always a risk. But yeah, the interstrateing
not okay.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Look, I can probably ask for Linda, So we get
this a lot. It's about you know, do I Because
how old did you say you were, Linda? You're in
You're post sixty five, aren't you? Yes?
Speaker 6 (14:05):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Okay? And how much longer do you think you're going
to be saving this money for? How long are you
going to continue working for?
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Well? What you hope to be actually saving more? Because
my husband intends to continue working for a period. Yeah,
so yeah, he'll be on the tension as well.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Okay, Well, one thing we can offer, and I'll ask
Simon to give a bit more on this, is once
you've reached sixty five, every year you continue to work
is actually worth a hell of a lot of money
compared to what you'd have to save to have lived
without working. Isn't that right, Simon? You know what I mean?
If you have to save a certain amount for retirement
(14:46):
and you decide to simply work on, that's worth so
much that you're not taking off your savings. And every
year you work, I mean, if he wants to work,
I'd say good, I'm going to If they want to
work then and they are capable than good on them.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, absolutely, that is another year that another year that
you aren't going to have to put your key saver
towards funding your life and your lifestyle. So that's definitely
going to make make it easier to make ends meet
and to enjoy your money.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah. The other question would be, okay, financial advice. People say,
I've talked to financial advisor. How do you get financial
advice without having to pay a fortune for it, because
a lot of financial advisors are only interested based on
you having quite a large amount of money or the
ability to pay a significant fee. Are the easier ways
to get financial advice?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I don't think there are easy ways to get financial advice,
just given the certification that needs to be attached to
financial advice, but fund of a financial education perspective, in
terms of understanding your money and understanding different financial concepts,
there a range of options out there where you can
achieve that.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I think yeah, And also with certain funds that you
might want to invest in. Like if you're looking and
we're not getting a specific financial advice, is just a
general discussion around it. If you were looking at investing
in the share market or NASDAK funds or you know,
there are a bunch of financial funds you can invest in.
You need to have a sort of there's a certain
(16:13):
length of period you have to be prepared to sit
it out, isn't there? And for instance, if you're going
to get look at a share portfolio, you're not going
to do it because you want to return in six months?
How long how long term? Would you say that Linda
might want to look at something like that or not?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah, you are looking to invest rather than trade.
So part of the benefit of investing is having your
money in the market and not pulling it in out
on a day to day basis. So yeah, I think
you definitely want to be investing over a longer horizon
rather than putting it away the six months as you
might want for it you might do for a term deposit.
But again it just depends on someone on circumstances.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I think what's the what is the sort of are
there sort of rules of thumb for various types of
fund in terms of medium, low, high risk. You know,
if you're obviously, if you're a few months away from retirement,
you want to be conservative, whereas with other funds you
want to be able to leave your money in there
for five years. So there's sort of rules of thumbs
in terms of risk profiles.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I do hobely that are not something that I'm familiar
with those in terms of in terms of those, yes,
I say, I think someone's individual circumstances are so varied
that it's hard to sort of apply a general rule
of thumb.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, okay, right, okay, thanks for your call, Linda. So
I'm not we not not have been as much help
as you would have liked. But anyway, I hope that's
giving me you have some food for thought. But actually,
if you speak to even just speaking to her, finding
a fund manager and having a chat about the various
products they've got, they would be able to at least
offer recommended funds for certain periods of time.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah. And there are a lot of financial products and
funds out here that have very low management fees now
as well, so that obhre doesn't have to be huge.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, okay, right, let's tell you, Oh, we need to
take a break. We'll be back in just to take
It's twenty four past five. I'm with the CEO of
Banker that's b A. N q Ei. His name is
Simon Brown. We're talking about financial literacy. How did you
learn your lessons? By the way, because sometimes they say
financial literacy. You learn it the hard way when you've
taken a bath and you go ooh, okay, I won't
(18:13):
do that again, So give us your calls. Eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty John is next. It's twenty five
past four. Are you worried about funding a comfortable retirement?
Well you're not alone. The cost of living crisis is
hitting home for a lot of people, so it's no
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of their savings and get a little bit more income
to supplement their New Zealand super. One interesting solution is
(18:34):
to invest in an income fund like the Harbor Income Fund.
It works by holding a mix of interest paying securities
and shares that have been designed to generate a steady
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(18:56):
more about Harbor's Income Fund, just head to their website
or speak with your financial advisor. This is not intended
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dot co dot Nz.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Your Weekend, Your Way, The Weekend Collective with Tim Beveridge
News Talk zebby.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yes, and we're talking with banker CEO Simon Brown. Bank
is a prescription. It's the name B A n q
E R that financial literacy and taking your calls John, Hello.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Yeah, mate, Hey, I'd like to know your thoughts than
any of your other callers thoughts on bitcoin. I'll give
you a little rundown of what we done. We and
we took a little piece of our mortgage three years
ago and put it into bitcoin, and it's tripled in value.
And I'm wondering why other people don't do that.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I would jump in before Simon and so because
I think it can be risky.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
But Simon, Yeah, to my mind it comes back to
risk and understanding your risk at the Titan. I think
for a lot of people, the associated risk doesn't stack up.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Okay, any question follow up on that, John.
Speaker 6 (20:14):
See just why you say that? So what's risk appetite?
But if you look at the trend over how many
years it's only gone in one direction? Is that not correct?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I don't know. I'm gon handle that over to Simon.
I don't track bitcoins so much.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I can't say I keep intimately close to it, but yeah,
that is my understanding. I think it does fluctuate a
lot though, so again, if you're looking over the short term,
that risk is probably something that a lot of people
would be comfortable with.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I mean, John, I've had the owner of Cora
Wealth who have their own key. We save a fund
and they have a key. We save a fund where
you can actually by it by the fund that partly
has bitcoin, and even he says that, look, it's only
ten percent of the fund. Though it's only ten percent
(21:01):
of that. In fact, I don't think they could would
want to would So it is a high risk thing.
But yeah, I mean, look, markets have ups and they
have downs as well. I don't know the bitcoins a
funny one, isn't it, Because I remember getting approached about
bitcoin when you could buy about a thousand coins for
ten cents. It's early days, and maybe we should have
done that, Simon. But I think those stories that there's
(21:25):
always a cautionary tale in there somewhere, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah, exactly. You often hear about those who succeed wildly
from these sorts of things, and there are others that
don't so much. But yeah, I think a lot of
people are increasingly recognizing bitcoin as a genuine investment vehicle.
But it just really yeah, it depends. I've got what
horizon and your riskepetite.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, so other than that, John, it's difficult to discuss
these things. But good on you for your success with it.
But I always think for every success you hear about,
there's not the person who's telling you that they bought
something that turned out to be a bit of a
dog because they had to cash it up at the
wrong time. But again outside my area of expertise, right,
let's carry on show we got them today.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Hi, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Good?
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Thanks very well. Like when when I started, when I
was a kid, my dad used to introduce me to
like share markets and teach me all of the stuff.
And that's what I do with my kids in New Zealand. Though. Yeah,
my kids are like seven and three and normally we
give them pocket many about ten dollars, so we thought
them each day they come up to learn about new
technologies and new companies that pop out and then come
(22:32):
in the top ten. Wow, and I tell them to
invest ten dollars a day, which equals to about seventy
dollars a week, I think, which can be afforded by
even a normal family. And I work like full time,
so I an normal wages, not a fancy wages. But
then seventy dollars a week, which can give up to
about a few put it in a large cap, which
could give out an annual yield, and they get about
(22:52):
two and detail.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
So sorry, you eh off your children's investing ten dollars
a day into the share market.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yes, so it goes on ordered a bit every week. Yeah,
and then at the end of sixteen years on a
large cap, you're looking at two hundred thousand dollars each.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
So how many kids have you got? Who are you
doing that worth too? Okay, so that's one hundred and
forty bucks a week after tax. I'm not sure that
everyone can manage that because that means what's that one
hundred and forty bucks a week after tex So that's
probably ten thousand dollars of income gross income that you
give your kids. Good on you for doing it.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
That's a fair It just that we sacrifice some stuff
because some even if you go to groceries. We have
to get them snacks and stuff. They just can decide
on what they don't want and what they want really
and they just sacrifice one or two items and that
gets at their money. And that's what we do. And
on a large scale, of course, there are shares, and
many people have different perspectives on it, and there are
(23:50):
large caps and mid caps and small caps as they
call it, and small caps are a high risk, and
then large caps are a low risk. So I always
tell them you come up with a new company. I
taught them how to read the fact sheet, which is
already everywhere available. On the fact sheet, they just need
to know what is the actual race of the company
and what they're actually paying it off. So if the
(24:10):
difference is less than one percent, that means a pretty
that means a pretty annual. The income on the overall
would be close to about eighteen percent.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Gain.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
How old are your kids?
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Seven and three?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well, well, good on that's I'm not sure whether I
really admire you or finding you slightly in sufferables. I
don't mean that mean way actually, but good on your
main hell, but that's that is I mean that there's
got them talking about the sacrifices making as well, which
is I mean about it's about gross ten thousand bucks
(24:44):
of income, which he's.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
You know, yeah, I think it sounds like very fortunate
that they can afford to put that money inside for
them and also that they have that wealth and knowledge
at home to support them through that learning experience.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So yeah, because there are apps. I don't like to
mention specific apps. I'll avoid the names because but I
had a friend who sent me a link who and
he has, you know, I think his grandchild putting a
bit of money here and there when they put their
pocket money into their own app of shares share investing,
(25:20):
and it's sort of it's almost like a game because
they could go and spend it on you know, something
frivolous or sweets or you know, trivia or whatever, but
instead they're putting maybe ten dollars in a week and
playing around with the share market. And there are actually,
apparently there apps you can do it with your kids.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, there's some great tools out there from New Zealand
companies that can support you to introduce your kids anything
from saving right through to investing.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Because actually they're not that in a way, they're not
high stakes even though eventually they could end up with
a fair whack of money in there, because if they're
simply as children deciding that they're going to put some
money into something and watch it grow, whereas they could
have just spend it on stuff, then everything's a win
at that point, isn't it. Isn't it?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah? I think so in it and in a lot
of itss. I suspect that the amount has been put
away is relatively small, but the compound effect of that
over their lives. Would that beat through until they're eighteen
or further afield when they buy their first house. That
can be quite powerful.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, okay, let's take some more course, Denise High.
Speaker 7 (26:27):
Oh hi, good on that man who's doing that for
his kids. And I think it's a fantastic thing to
teach your kids how to share, trade and things like that.
At a stage it is stayed in their lives and
they can actually understand how it works. I don't understand
how it works, so I think I find it very complex.
(26:48):
But I'm seventy one and still working three days a
week and drawing the pension. As an experiment, I decided
to put my salary aside and try and live on
the pension and I failed miserably.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, and I think that's what everyone fears would be the.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
Result when they I've got an asset that I can sell,
So I'm very fortunate in that regard. But people who
who are renting at my age, still renting, who don't
have a house and are not able to work, I
don't know how on earth they manage on the pension.
You would have to make so many savings on things
(27:32):
like food and the utilities. I I just can't imagine,
you know, how it would work for people. There must
be you know, with the baby boomers, that big bubble demographic. Wow,
I mean, what's the reality of these people who are
over seventy and struggling?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Oh god, I mean yeah, thanks Denise. I mean I
think that's the thing that we're all worried, that everyone's
worried about us their retirement. What's your comment, Simon.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Yeah, it's something that we sort of bring to life
in the classroom when we're introducing students about keep saves
sort of. I guess it's send me that conversation around
when you stop working, how you're going to afford for
things in life and how quickly those things can add up,
and I think for them they have the opportunity to
to save and keep savor and see that grow of
the years and make it mean that they have more
(28:26):
than just the pension their retirement. But yeah, absolutely for
those who just have their pension, I can imagure it's
tough to make ends mete.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Sorry, carry on, car.
Speaker 7 (28:36):
I was also wondering, you know, how long is key
we save are going to last, you know, for the
for the up and coming kids, Will it still be around?
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I would say yes, absolutely, I'd say so.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
No, it's not going anywhere. No, it's not.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I think it's If anything, it's only going to get stronger,
i'd suggest, And yeah, I think that's going to be
more of a cornerstone of people's retirement going forward.
Speaker 7 (28:59):
Yeah, so I think for me, any surplus I get,
we'll go into the kiwisaver on a growth fund.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Do you know how are you How are you are
you working part time? What are you doing to make
ends meet?
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (29:15):
Yeah, I'm working. I'm working three days a week. I
have a border as well because I'm not mortgage free yet,
and I draw the pension you know, at a lower
rate because I'm taxed. Secondary on that so so I
manage and I can still enjoy things like putting on
(29:35):
a feast for my family on a special occasion as
if I'm just on the pension. I don't think I
could stretch the lambshanks and roast pork, you know, No.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
No goodness me. I mean, I think that's that's a
situation for many people, Denise. In fact, that's why I've
got a I've got a theory Simon that we are
going to see increasingly. I mean, you know, the arguments,
isn't funny the arguments around the pension age, you know,
and how what it should be, almost separate to the
age which you I don't mean you, but we are
(30:08):
going to retire because more and more people we're living longer.
I think we are healthier generally. I know that there
are some people, you know, for whom health issues can
kick in early. But I would say that we are
going to have a population of people who are going
to I mean sixty five in terms of the real
age of retirement. I don't know how many people I
know who say they're going to retire at sixty five.
(30:28):
Not that many? What do you reckon? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Absolutely, Again, the students that we're dealing with on a
day to day basis in schools. I mentioned that most
of them them are going to work well beyond sixty
five and akp save it may not be a lot
for them until an age after that as well. To
your point, I think is healthcare improves and lifespan increases
that it's the logical thing that people are going to do.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
What's just quickly before we go to the break, what
do you favor as from a just as a point
of view? And I know we're not doing specific financial advice,
but what do you favor paying off your mortgage asap?
Or if you've got extra money, don't use it, the
path of your mortgage investor where are you to and
on that one?
Speaker 3 (31:12):
For me personally, this comes back to the rate of
return and what ultimately is going to land us in
the best financial position. I don't think GET, when approached correctly,
is something to be scared of. So at the end
of the day, it's balancing what you're paying interest on
that and the potential return from investments.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah cool, What was the answer there? Again? What's what's yours?
What's your personal stance on it? Would you rather path
for your mortgage first, or or is your rather.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Combination. I'd depend on the interest rate and the raid
of return of investment, but I'd probably be doing both. Okay,
I'm sitting on the fence.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Sorry, yeah, okay, all right, we're going to take a moment.
It is nineteen minutes to sex news talk. Sa'd be start.
Do you want to have a good time? My producer
(32:14):
I I we played me that one. He said just
wait for the lyric and it's just when Reddy says,
just give me a call. But we're talking about money.
Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty R. We haven't got
too long to go. We're talking with Simon Brownie's the
CEO of CEO of Banker b A n q e R.
It's company that provides financial literacy lessons in schools. Hey, Simon,
what's what's the what's the what are the surprising places
(32:38):
that people squander money without really needing to? I mean,
one of the things you mentioned subscriptions, which I do
review from time to time, and I look at Netflix
and Disney Plus and all that, and I go wonder
if I should cancel those from a month or two
and see if the kids notice we'll see if I notice.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, I think subscriptions is a big one. Free trials
would be the other. The old sign up for a
free trial, free trial, put your credit card tales and
then get to cancel before the end of the free trial,
which I'm sure we've all done.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Actually, I wonder how many people do forget that, because
I've done it. But I diary a reminder on my
calendar and I'll do it for a few days beforehand
to say cancel such and such.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yes see, I'll often discanceer the subscription the sooners I've
paid so they can't charge me at the into the trial.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
But yeah, well I did that with one site, and
one of the sites if you cancel it, they canceled
your trials straight away, which I thought was cunning of
them and their choice, and obviously I wasn't that serious.
The other one is actually, have you ever had do
you ever do? The negotiate a subscription for sale? Obviously
(33:49):
Netflix is Netflix, but you negotiate it by canceling it,
and then you get the email that says or you
get the message saying are you sure you want to go?
I did it for the Telegraph paper in the UK
and it was something like twenty five pounds a month,
and I went dollars and I went stuff this, and
they said how about ten a month? And I said nah,
(34:09):
And I basically canceled again, and I went through about
five stages and then it said how about we give
you the whole year for twenty five bucks? And I
said done. I should probably check that doesn't suddenly kick
in again.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
It'll kick back in at some stage, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I might have to go and check that out. I mean,
have you ever have you had any success with that
or because for me it was an accidental success.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah. I often get that when we cancel subscriptions for
even for business tools and whatnot that offer to heavily
discount the price for a certain period of time, and
even some of the services the likes off your Bone
and broad Banter youa in New Zealand. Often those businesses
have retention teams and if you suggest that you're paying
too much, you can often end up with the sharper price.
(34:55):
So yeah, I think there's something to be said for
bartering and negotiating.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
It's a strange bartering, isn't it, Because sometimes because well
I AI, they use a lot of that. Of it's
a click of a mouse. You say no thanks or
I'm canceling, and they always go are you sure? And
I always wonder how far I can push the yes,
I'm sure? Are you really really sure? Yes, I'm really
really sure, you know, until they go, okay, see you anyway?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
They don't make it easy.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
What are the other places where people squander money? So
subscriptions will be one credit card? People love the points
on credit card, but then if you don't pay it off, boomfer.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Yeah, the payway your fees will pretty The other one
that comes to mind for me at the moment, obviously
on their way out, but I think those add up
over the year.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Do you are you? I'm guessing because you're You've confessed
you're quite a cortious guy. So when you go to
the when you go to the checkout and it says
payway fever feeing, you know you're going to get an
extra ping? Do you go okay, ill and set my
card and enter it manually? Because you like, go, oh
(36:01):
what the hell?
Speaker 3 (36:03):
You've got the measure of me quickly? I absolutely unless
I'm in a rush the taff and I'll be out
of here.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, okay, right, we actually we might just take quick
quick break before we had come back to wrap it
all up. I'm with Simon Brown, he CEO of Banker.
If you'd like to give us a call, or if
you'd like to run an idea you've got with about
saving money or a money hack that you've got that
could save you a bit of money and therefore the
rest of us, and then give us a call on
(36:28):
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. It is eleven minutes
to six. Yes, News Talk said be this is smart money,
And I'm with the Banker CEO b A n q
E R c O Simon Brown, who provides his company
provides financial literacy courses. I guess for schools. Now, Simon, So,
do you do your stuff through sort of privately to
(36:50):
schools or are you hooked up with the government sort
of initiative on this stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
We just were probably directly with schools at the moment,
so a school essentially can visit up. We've signed and
get teed up to use Banker in their school. But
alongside partner's life, we're actually doing some stuff for adults
over the next couple of weeks to celebrate money month
as well. We have a money Month Challenge where adults
can jump online and get amongst our platform and brush
up on their financial literacy skills as well.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Who comes up with Money's Month? Is this? Is this
a government thing? Is it through sorted? Or where does
money month actually come from?
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Exactly sorted? The Retirement Commission run money month?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, oh okay? And what sort of other So partner's life,
what's their gig? What do they do?
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Partner's life? Their personal risk insurance? So they support us
to deliver Banker to schools alongside KVY Bank throughout New
Zealand and to support money Month. We've partnered to create
this money Month Challenge where adults can sign up for
free use our platform for two weeks and explore a
bunch of different financial concepts.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Just while we're talking about those subscriptions, what happens if
they sign up for a couple of weeks? Is it
something where they are they subscribed it? Or how does that?
It is free?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
There were no credit card required, We will not charge
the medtle later date. Totally free for this two weeks.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
So I could ave said that because we have just
been talking by the hooks. Yeah you couldn't have lived
with yourself?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Could You would have been very ironic?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Hey, so what in terms of what what leads to
school to engaging you guys to do you know, to
get the banker services for their for their kids. Is
it just because there are teachers there who get engaged
with and they look for a solution or or how
does it work and what what will be the way
ahead for you guys when it comes to you know,
(38:37):
the financial literacy requirements that are being introduced to schools.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah. So historically it has been just a teacher that's
particularly passionate about financial education and sort it wants to
go above and beyond and deliver it to their students.
With the change of the curriculum, financial education is compulsory
throughout so that will mean that all schools are delivering
financial education and I guess a little bit more impetus
for schools to do so.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's a good move, isn't it?
That doing it? I mean I have this sort of
suspicion that kids are going to have better financial literacy
than the adults in New Zealand. But as you say, so,
what happens when people click on this initiative you guys
are doing. They just go to banker if they want
to check do the two weeks worth the financial literacy?
(39:21):
What do they do?
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Yeah, so they if they're Google search Banker as you say,
B A, N Q, E, R and money Month, it'll
be the top hit that comes up. Essentially, they can
sign up and next Monday, the eighteenth, we'll make a start.
They'll get access to our platform andty'll experience. We'll cover
cover topics like earning, budgeting, TEP management, investing in risk management.
So if someone's, like I said, our conversation today is
(39:44):
resonated with someone and they want to brush up on
those schools, we'll start learning about them. There's been opportunity
to do so.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
I wonder if our caller who was into THEO the
bitcoin or click on that.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
It's funny though we don't unfortunately have bitcoin within the platform,
so they may be disappointed, but we do have investing.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I'm kind of relieved that you said that as well,
because hello, early age, I don't know and who knows
where that's going to go. But hey, thanks for your
time this afternoon. So I'm in a best of luck
with the rest of Money Month.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Thank you jes Cheerz.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
There we go. If you want to check out that
course that you can do for a couple of weeks,
you can go to Banker that's B A n q
e R dot co slash end z by the way,
as the address that popped up. But I think if
you just type and look, if you look for that word,
it's a unique word with a Q and it awhere
you go. So anyway, that wraps up smart Money. Thanks
(40:39):
for your time and thanks for tuning in. If you
have missed any of the show, you know you can
go and check out the Weekend Collectives podcast, or you
can go to news Talk said B dot co dot
nz and we'll be back the same time next week.
Thanks my producer Isaiah Abadingo and Sunday at six is
standing by him. We'll catch you and enjoy the rest
(41:01):
of your Sunday evening. Enjoy the rest of your your weekend.
What this wooded as a world?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
This World. For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live
(41:47):
to news Talks It'd be weekends from three pm, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It's welcome to the Weekend Collective and welcome back in
the case you've been with us for the past couple
of hours hours, this is smart Money. We want your
calls on eight hundred eighty, ten eighty or text nine two.
Now most New Zealanders apparently consider themselves was only average
with money. I'm actually surprised it's that good. I've imagined
people with a lot of people who be writing themselves off.
(01:12):
So there's In fact, there's been a new study from
Partner's Life which finds less than a quarter of New
Zealanders rate their financial knowledge is excellent. Less than a quarter.
That still sounds quite high for me. I was expecting
it to be something like five percent. Anyway. At the
same time, close to half sorry next, nearly sixty percent
find it tough to pay monthly expenses. That's not a surprise,
(01:34):
and just over half reported stress or losing sleep due
to money concerns. Not surprised with that one either. At
the same time, close to half are reportedly using credit
and after pay services to make ends meet. It's safe
to assume those stats ll go hand in hand. So
how do we boost financial literacy? I mean, would that
be a cue to these ills or would we simply
(01:55):
be literate enough to go I'm stuffed. Anyway, financial education
is going to be introduced into schools next year, but
what could adults put into practice? Now want your cause
on this, but joining us to discuss it. As a
new guest on our show, he's from an organization called
Banker b a n q eer. He's the CEO, and
he's Simon Brown and he's with us. Now, okaday, Simon,
(02:17):
how are you going?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Good things? Then? Great to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Hey, what's Banker?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah? So Banker we're an online financial education provider for
schools and essentially we teach kids about how money works
in the real world so that they don't have to
learn by trial and era like potentially their parents did.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, and how's it?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
How?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
How when did you become financially literate yourself?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And it's a great question, and we what would I
determine is to be financially literate? I think I've always
had a natural curiosity with money, So I think when
I left home around seventeen or eighteen, I probably left
home with a decent grounding and probably at that point
started to explore money more and get a solid understanding
of how it works in the real world.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's financial literacy just about being good at maths in
a way, because I sometimes wonder whether there are blocks
to financial literacy almost emotional as well, because you don't
want to know too much because you don't want to
know how potentially screwed you are.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot built into financial lipsy. I
think I think it's part science, part art. I mean,
one aspect of it is just purely understanding the definite
definition of financial concepts, as you've touched on obviously understanding math.
But then there's so much money psychology and money personality
comes into it, and you can probably see yourself doing
(03:46):
things that are reflective of you as a person, and
I think that's all sort of built into it.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Actually, how much difference do you think it would make
teaching people financial literacy when there are so many I mean,
I don't know how you can observe this yourself through
what you do, but when there's so much psychology play
Because you might explain to someone financial literacy, but if
they're a spend thrift, can they help themselves. Does it
help with those personality traits which might actually undercut them.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I think knowledge is power and understanding financial concepts goes
a long way. But to your point, yes, I think
personality has a large impact. I think probably the example
that comes to mind for mayor families and kids raised
by the same parents, potentially with the same understanding of
financial concepts, but yet they can be very different in
the way they interact with the financial world.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So what work tell us a bit more about the
work that you do. Do you do stuff through an app?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, So we've got a platform which we provide to
schools throughout Australasia right from primary through to secondary and
essentially we cared a simulation of the real world. So
students are introduced to financial concepts, the types of concepts
that you and I should be interacting with or maybe
not internected with so much on a DA basis, and
then we provide them with an environment where they can
(05:08):
put that into practice. So they have mock online bank accounts,
they earn a fictitious wage, they pay classroom expenses and
roll in fictitious key resaver, take out insurance, they invest
all those sorts of things that as I say we
should be doing as adults.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I mean, how much of that stuff should people? I mean,
when is the right time to teach your kids about
financial literacy. I don't know if you've got kids or
anything yourself, but.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, yeah, we're not got at the stage of introducing
our son into financial concepts. But I think the general
consensus is sooner the better. Research would suggest that from
age three, students or kids can bark grasp basic money concepts,
and by age seven sort of financial behaviors are ingrained.
So the sooner we start, the better. As to what
(05:55):
age we should be introduced to different concepts, there's a
few different theories out there, and it really just scaffolds
up from a basic understanding of money.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So what did you make of the findings of that
that study that were you surprised by those numbers? I'm
kind of surprised. So less than a quarter of New
Zealanders rate their financial knowledge as excellent. I would have
thought it would have been lower because nearly sixty percent
found it tough to pay month and expenses. But yeah,
(06:24):
what did you think of the numbers in terms of
adults confidence and competencies?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah, I mean, to your point. I think, yeah, the
fact that twenty three percent to rate their financial knowledge
is excellent is somewhat surprising. I probably tend to agree
with you, and I would have thought that number would
have been lower. But sort of the flow on effects
of that in terms of how we're stacking up on
a day to day basis, in terms of looking at
(06:51):
the sort of duty percent of people have lost over
two hundred dollars in the last year due to avoidable
fees accental purchase for godd and subscriptions, sixty percent finding
it difficult to keep up monthly with monthly expenses, and
forty four percent relying on credit cards and the lights
of buying out pay later. That didn't particularly surprise me.
It's tough times out there, and I think a lot
(07:12):
of these speak to in part sort of financial education
in the state of financial litersy in New Zealand, and
also that did it as charging financially as well.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
But what do you think the secret robbers of wealth are?
I mean, we can look obviously, if you've started sticking
cumulative money into a bank account and rely on communative interest,
you'd be feeling pretty good about things. In fact, I
think I saw something about lotto that if you instead
buying the a lotto ticket, if you just stuck ten
or fifteen bucks a week into the bank account and
did that through your life, you'd come out with some
(07:41):
like one hundred and sixty grand. Ah, but just a
bit depressing when you're sort of middle aged. You think, well,
I would have done that, but I didn't.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah. Look, I think to my mind, a lot of
it comes to back to a really basic concept that
we recommend teachers or parents introduced the kids at a
early agent. That is the difference between wants and needs.
And I think if you can master that goes a
long way towards I guess living a financially responsible life
and being able to make the right financial decisions to yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I think the other one, which is a bit more
of an advanced concept, is working out. I mean, we
all have to spend money on different things to do
with a house and renovations and things, but understanding and
working out the future value of money in other words,
it's something I mean, I've been going through the whole thing.
Is it better to pay to renovate the house now
(08:33):
and you just pay it off as quickly as possible,
or should I wait until I've got more money in
the bank account. But then again it's going to be
more expensive to do it, but at least understanding what
the future value of money is going to look like,
and you know what I mean. Those are more sophisticated
concepts for people to get their heads around, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yeah, absolutely that. Yeah, that is a complex concept which
does take it to greve. I think financial literacy to
sort of contemplate, and I think then when you take
into consideration the desires gratification as well, I think a
lot of people that will in just being money in
the here and now rather than think about too far
into the future as well.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
What's your take on that though, because I will use
an expression I've used before. It's not necessarily my philosophy,
but it's the battle that goes on. So I and
I've heard people say this as well, that you know,
you can save and save and save and think all
about your retirement and doing this, and then you can
get to your retirement and look back on a life
(09:35):
that you haven't lived.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah. I think there's definitely balance to be had, there
isn't there. Yeah, And again there's a lot of work
being done into the psychology of money and and happiness
is happiness as well, and into connectivity. And I don't
think I've got an answer, but to my mind, it's
about finding that balance and investing in the things that
make you happy while still preparing for the future.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I mean, what's your approach to it in terms of
your own attitudes towards money, because you're in a tricky
situation because you I have your own little proclivities which
you sort of think, well, to be honest, here's my
guilty confession, but you might be likely to be honest.
You know, we haven't quite saved up the money to
have a holiday, but god, I really need a holiday.
And you guess what kids were off to? Japan?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, my parents would agree, but that I've always been
a bit of a scrooge when it comes to money,
So I've always been relatively slow to part with money.
And that's I wouldn't say a conflicts in my relationship
with my wife over the years, but I think she's
definitely taught me to spend more in than now and
to enjoy enjoy spending my money and to enjoy the
(10:39):
experiences that that creates. But yes, I've probably been out
of balance in that regard. So for me, there's always
that I've always monitoring myself and making sure that I
am I am spending money in the here and now
to enjoy things.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I've come up with another and a good name for
another website on financial advice, which was probably been taken already,
which would be Scrooge dot co dot and said probably not.
I'm not sure if that would work as a business concept,
but look, we want your cause on this. Also, what
is it with you in financial literacy? And how do
you rate your own skills? But if you were to
(11:16):
be interested in getting into financial literacy, what would be
what would it that would be that would get in
your way? Would it be the academic side of it?
Would it be the emotional psychology of it, because you
maybe don't want to know too much about how good
or bad your situation is. Of course, if you've got
millions sitting in the bank, you might be like, yeah,
I'd love to be more financial literate because you know
(11:37):
you're not going to get bad news. So what is
it that's holding you back? Eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty You can text on nine two nine two and Yeah,
we're talking with We're talking with the CEO of banker.
His name is Simon Brown, and we'll be actually back
in a moment. We're going to go straight to Linda
good A.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Linda, Hi, Yes, my husband and I wanted some investment advice.
I'm sixty six and my husband well sixty five next July.
We own our own home mortgage free. We've got about
thirty thousand dollars at the moment, and we're saving about
ten thousand dollars a month, which we're actually putting into
(12:18):
turn deposits at the bank. But the indust rates are
not looking good, so is there a better option?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Okay, before before Simon answers that, he will say that
he's not able to give you specific financial advice, but
we can talk in some general themes. But I do
have to say that to save Simon having to say it,
I'll be the gooseberry there.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
We wondered about putting it into my key. We save
it because we can access it.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
By the way, can I just say, Linder, you're saving
ten thousand bucks a month?
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Yeah, because I'm on the tench and working three days
a week.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well, Peter was not going to give you ten thousand
bucks a month. He must be working. Good on you.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
My husband's still working as well.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Oh, good on you. Well that is okay, right, Any
thoughts on that because yeah, the interest rates. While obviously
borrowers want interest rates to go down, it's not good
for savers simon. So any any themes we can talk
about that Linda could think about or consider.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I think prove the thing that we've just touched on
now around but now there's the future in terms of
spending in the moment to enjoy life and putting enough
away for the future. And I think a good financial
advice will be able to help navigate you through that
conversation in terms of understanding, yeah, what you need to
be putting away and what you can be spending in
here and now. Yeah, but I don't go too much
(13:36):
further than that without going to the financial adalth realm
for vice realms.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
So we're putting it into we're putting it into my key,
we savor where we can access it. They're a little
bit better than I know. We all want to lose it.
But yeah, there's always a risk. But yeah, the interstrateing
not okay.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Look, I can probably ask for Linda, So we get
this a lot. It's about you know, do I Because
how old did you say you were, Linda? You're in
You're post sixty five, aren't you? Yes?
Speaker 6 (14:05):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Okay? And how much longer do you think you're going
to be saving this money for? How long are you
going to continue working for?
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Well? What you hope to be actually saving more? Because
my husband intends to continue working for a period. Yeah,
so yeah, he'll be on the tension as well.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Okay, Well, one thing we can offer, and I'll ask
Simon to give a bit more on this, is once
you've reached sixty five, every year you continue to work
is actually worth a hell of a lot of money
compared to what you'd have to save to have lived
without working. Isn't that right, Simon? You know what I mean?
If you have to save a certain amount for retirement
(14:46):
and you decide to simply work on, that's worth so
much that you're not taking off your savings. And every
year you work, I mean, if he wants to work,
I'd say good, I'm going to If they want to
work then and they are capable than good on them.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, absolutely, that is another year that another year that
you aren't going to have to put your key saver
towards funding your life and your lifestyle. So that's definitely
going to make make it easier to make ends meet
and to enjoy your money.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah. The other question would be, okay, financial advice. People say,
I've talked to financial advisor. How do you get financial
advice without having to pay a fortune for it, because
a lot of financial advisors are only interested based on
you having quite a large amount of money or the
ability to pay a significant fee. Are the easier ways
to get financial advice?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I don't think there are easy ways to get financial advice,
just given the certification that needs to be attached to
financial advice, but fund of a financial education perspective, in
terms of understanding your money and understanding different financial concepts,
there a range of options out there where you can
achieve that.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I think yeah, And also with certain funds that you
might want to invest in. Like if you're looking and
we're not getting a specific financial advice, is just a
general discussion around it. If you were looking at investing
in the share market or NASDAK funds or you know,
there are a bunch of financial funds you can invest in.
You need to have a sort of there's a certain
(16:13):
length of period you have to be prepared to sit
it out, isn't there? And for instance, if you're going
to get look at a share portfolio, you're not going
to do it because you want to return in six months?
How long how long term? Would you say that Linda
might want to look at something like that or not?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah, you are looking to invest rather than trade.
So part of the benefit of investing is having your
money in the market and not pulling it in out
on a day to day basis. So yeah, I think
you definitely want to be investing over a longer horizon
rather than putting it away the six months as you
might want for it you might do for a term deposit.
But again it just depends on someone on circumstances.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I think what's the what is the sort of are
there sort of rules of thumb for various types of
fund in terms of medium, low, high risk. You know,
if you're obviously, if you're a few months away from retirement,
you want to be conservative, whereas with other funds you
want to be able to leave your money in there
for five years. So there's sort of rules of thumbs
in terms of risk profiles.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I do hobely that are not something that I'm familiar
with those in terms of in terms of those, yes,
I say, I think someone's individual circumstances are so varied
that it's hard to sort of apply a general rule
of thumb.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, okay, right, okay, thanks for your call, Linda. So
I'm not we not not have been as much help
as you would have liked. But anyway, I hope that's
giving me you have some food for thought. But actually,
if you speak to even just speaking to her, finding
a fund manager and having a chat about the various
products they've got, they would be able to at least
offer recommended funds for certain periods of time.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah. And there are a lot of financial products and
funds out here that have very low management fees now
as well, so that obhre doesn't have to be huge.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, okay, right, let's tell you, Oh, we need to
take a break. We'll be back in just to take
It's twenty four past five. I'm with the CEO of
Banker that's b A. N q Ei. His name is
Simon Brown. We're talking about financial literacy. How did you
learn your lessons? By the way, because sometimes they say
financial literacy. You learn it the hard way when you've
taken a bath and you go ooh, okay, I won't
(18:13):
do that again, So give us your calls. Eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty John is next. It's twenty five
past four. Are you worried about funding a comfortable retirement?
Well you're not alone. The cost of living crisis is
hitting home for a lot of people, so it's no
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of their savings and get a little bit more income
to supplement their New Zealand super. One interesting solution is
(18:34):
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(18:56):
more about Harbor's Income Fund, just head to their website
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Speaker 1 (19:15):
Your Weekend, Your Way, The Weekend Collective with Tim Beveridge
News Talk zebby.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yes, and we're talking with banker CEO Simon Brown. Bank
is a prescription. It's the name B A n q
E R that financial literacy and taking your calls John, Hello.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Yeah, mate, Hey, I'd like to know your thoughts than
any of your other callers thoughts on bitcoin. I'll give
you a little rundown of what we done. We and
we took a little piece of our mortgage three years
ago and put it into bitcoin, and it's tripled in value.
And I'm wondering why other people don't do that.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I would jump in before Simon and so because
I think it can be risky.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
But Simon, Yeah, to my mind it comes back to
risk and understanding your risk at the Titan. I think
for a lot of people, the associated risk doesn't stack up.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Okay, any question follow up on that, John.
Speaker 6 (20:14):
See just why you say that? So what's risk appetite?
But if you look at the trend over how many
years it's only gone in one direction? Is that not correct?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I don't know. I'm gon handle that over to Simon.
I don't track bitcoins so much.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I can't say I keep intimately close to it, but yeah,
that is my understanding. I think it does fluctuate a
lot though, so again, if you're looking over the short term,
that risk is probably something that a lot of people
would be comfortable with.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I mean, John, I've had the owner of Cora
Wealth who have their own key. We save a fund
and they have a key. We save a fund where
you can actually by it by the fund that partly
has bitcoin, and even he says that, look, it's only
ten percent of the fund. Though it's only ten percent
(21:01):
of that. In fact, I don't think they could would
want to would So it is a high risk thing.
But yeah, I mean, look, markets have ups and they
have downs as well. I don't know the bitcoins a
funny one, isn't it, Because I remember getting approached about
bitcoin when you could buy about a thousand coins for
ten cents. It's early days, and maybe we should have
done that, Simon. But I think those stories that there's
(21:25):
always a cautionary tale in there somewhere, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah, exactly. You often hear about those who succeed wildly
from these sorts of things, and there are others that
don't so much. But yeah, I think a lot of
people are increasingly recognizing bitcoin as a genuine investment vehicle.
But it just really yeah, it depends. I've got what
horizon and your riskepetite.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, so other than that, John, it's difficult to discuss
these things. But good on you for your success with it.
But I always think for every success you hear about,
there's not the person who's telling you that they bought
something that turned out to be a bit of a
dog because they had to cash it up at the
wrong time. But again outside my area of expertise, right,
let's carry on show we got them today.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Hi, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Good?
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Thanks very well. Like when when I started, when I
was a kid, my dad used to introduce me to
like share markets and teach me all of the stuff.
And that's what I do with my kids in New Zealand. Though. Yeah,
my kids are like seven and three and normally we
give them pocket many about ten dollars, so we thought
them each day they come up to learn about new
technologies and new companies that pop out and then come
(22:32):
in the top ten. Wow, and I tell them to
invest ten dollars a day, which equals to about seventy
dollars a week, I think, which can be afforded by
even a normal family. And I work like full time,
so I an normal wages, not a fancy wages. But
then seventy dollars a week, which can give up to
about a few put it in a large cap, which
could give out an annual yield, and they get about
(22:52):
two and detail.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
So sorry, you eh off your children's investing ten dollars
a day into the share market.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yes, so it goes on ordered a bit every week. Yeah,
and then at the end of sixteen years on a
large cap, you're looking at two hundred thousand dollars each.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
So how many kids have you got? Who are you
doing that worth too? Okay, so that's one hundred and
forty bucks a week after tax. I'm not sure that
everyone can manage that because that means what's that one
hundred and forty bucks a week after tex So that's
probably ten thousand dollars of income gross income that you
give your kids. Good on you for doing it.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
That's a fair It just that we sacrifice some stuff
because some even if you go to groceries. We have
to get them snacks and stuff. They just can decide
on what they don't want and what they want really
and they just sacrifice one or two items and that
gets at their money. And that's what we do. And
on a large scale, of course, there are shares, and
many people have different perspectives on it, and there are
(23:50):
large caps and mid caps and small caps as they
call it, and small caps are a high risk, and
then large caps are a low risk. So I always
tell them you come up with a new company. I
taught them how to read the fact sheet, which is
already everywhere available. On the fact sheet, they just need
to know what is the actual race of the company
and what they're actually paying it off. So if the
(24:10):
difference is less than one percent, that means a pretty
that means a pretty annual. The income on the overall
would be close to about eighteen percent.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Gain.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
How old are your kids?
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Seven and three?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well, well, good on that's I'm not sure whether I
really admire you or finding you slightly in sufferables. I
don't mean that mean way actually, but good on your
main hell, but that's that is I mean that there's
got them talking about the sacrifices making as well, which
is I mean about it's about gross ten thousand bucks
(24:44):
of income, which he's.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
You know, yeah, I think it sounds like very fortunate
that they can afford to put that money inside for
them and also that they have that wealth and knowledge
at home to support them through that learning experience.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So yeah, because there are apps. I don't like to
mention specific apps. I'll avoid the names because but I
had a friend who sent me a link who and
he has, you know, I think his grandchild putting a
bit of money here and there when they put their
pocket money into their own app of shares share investing,
(25:20):
and it's sort of it's almost like a game because
they could go and spend it on you know, something
frivolous or sweets or you know, trivia or whatever, but
instead they're putting maybe ten dollars in a week and
playing around with the share market. And there are actually,
apparently there apps you can do it with your kids.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, there's some great tools out there from New Zealand
companies that can support you to introduce your kids anything
from saving right through to investing.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Because actually they're not that in a way, they're not
high stakes even though eventually they could end up with
a fair whack of money in there, because if they're
simply as children deciding that they're going to put some
money into something and watch it grow, whereas they could
have just spend it on stuff, then everything's a win
at that point, isn't it. Isn't it?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah? I think so in it and in a lot
of itss. I suspect that the amount has been put
away is relatively small, but the compound effect of that
over their lives. Would that beat through until they're eighteen
or further afield when they buy their first house. That
can be quite powerful.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, okay, let's take some more course, Denise High.
Speaker 7 (26:27):
Oh hi, good on that man who's doing that for
his kids. And I think it's a fantastic thing to
teach your kids how to share, trade and things like that.
At a stage it is stayed in their lives and
they can actually understand how it works. I don't understand
how it works, so I think I find it very complex.
(26:48):
But I'm seventy one and still working three days a
week and drawing the pension. As an experiment, I decided
to put my salary aside and try and live on
the pension and I failed miserably.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, and I think that's what everyone fears would be the.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
Result when they I've got an asset that I can sell,
So I'm very fortunate in that regard. But people who
who are renting at my age, still renting, who don't
have a house and are not able to work, I
don't know how on earth they manage on the pension.
You would have to make so many savings on things
(27:32):
like food and the utilities. I I just can't imagine,
you know, how it would work for people. There must
be you know, with the baby boomers, that big bubble demographic. Wow,
I mean, what's the reality of these people who are
over seventy and struggling?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Oh god, I mean yeah, thanks Denise. I mean I
think that's the thing that we're all worried, that everyone's
worried about us their retirement. What's your comment, Simon.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Yeah, it's something that we sort of bring to life
in the classroom when we're introducing students about keep saves
sort of. I guess it's send me that conversation around
when you stop working, how you're going to afford for
things in life and how quickly those things can add up,
and I think for them they have the opportunity to
to save and keep savor and see that grow of
the years and make it mean that they have more
(28:26):
than just the pension their retirement. But yeah, absolutely for
those who just have their pension, I can imagure it's
tough to make ends mete.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Sorry, carry on, car.
Speaker 7 (28:36):
I was also wondering, you know, how long is key
we save are going to last, you know, for the
for the up and coming kids, Will it still be around?
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I would say yes, absolutely, I'd say so.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
No, it's not going anywhere. No, it's not.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I think it's If anything, it's only going to get stronger,
i'd suggest, And yeah, I think that's going to be
more of a cornerstone of people's retirement going forward.
Speaker 7 (28:59):
Yeah, so I think for me, any surplus I get,
we'll go into the kiwisaver on a growth fund.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Do you know how are you How are you are
you working part time? What are you doing to make
ends meet?
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (29:15):
Yeah, I'm working. I'm working three days a week. I
have a border as well because I'm not mortgage free yet,
and I draw the pension you know, at a lower
rate because I'm taxed. Secondary on that so so I
manage and I can still enjoy things like putting on
(29:35):
a feast for my family on a special occasion as
if I'm just on the pension. I don't think I
could stretch the lambshanks and roast pork, you know, No.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
No goodness me. I mean, I think that's that's a
situation for many people, Denise. In fact, that's why I've
got a I've got a theory Simon that we are
going to see increasingly. I mean, you know, the arguments,
isn't funny the arguments around the pension age, you know,
and how what it should be, almost separate to the
age which you I don't mean you, but we are
(30:08):
going to retire because more and more people we're living longer.
I think we are healthier generally. I know that there
are some people, you know, for whom health issues can
kick in early. But I would say that we are
going to have a population of people who are going
to I mean sixty five in terms of the real
age of retirement. I don't know how many people I
know who say they're going to retire at sixty five.
(30:28):
Not that many? What do you reckon? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Absolutely, Again, the students that we're dealing with on a
day to day basis in schools. I mentioned that most
of them them are going to work well beyond sixty
five and akp save it may not be a lot
for them until an age after that as well. To
your point, I think is healthcare improves and lifespan increases
that it's the logical thing that people are going to do.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
What's just quickly before we go to the break, what
do you favor as from a just as a point
of view? And I know we're not doing specific financial advice,
but what do you favor paying off your mortgage asap?
Or if you've got extra money, don't use it, the
path of your mortgage investor where are you to and
on that one?
Speaker 3 (31:12):
For me personally, this comes back to the rate of
return and what ultimately is going to land us in
the best financial position. I don't think GET, when approached correctly,
is something to be scared of. So at the end
of the day, it's balancing what you're paying interest on
that and the potential return from investments.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah cool, What was the answer there? Again? What's what's yours?
What's your personal stance on it? Would you rather path
for your mortgage first, or or is your rather.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Combination. I'd depend on the interest rate and the raid
of return of investment, but I'd probably be doing both. Okay,
I'm sitting on the fence.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Sorry, yeah, okay, all right, we're going to take a moment.
It is nineteen minutes to sex news talk. Sa'd be start.
Do you want to have a good time? My producer
(32:14):
I I we played me that one. He said just
wait for the lyric and it's just when Reddy says,
just give me a call. But we're talking about money.
Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty R. We haven't got
too long to go. We're talking with Simon Brownie's the
CEO of CEO of Banker b A n q e R.
It's company that provides financial literacy lessons in schools. Hey, Simon,
what's what's the what's the what are the surprising places
(32:38):
that people squander money without really needing to? I mean,
one of the things you mentioned subscriptions, which I do
review from time to time, and I look at Netflix
and Disney Plus and all that, and I go wonder
if I should cancel those from a month or two
and see if the kids notice we'll see if I notice.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, I think subscriptions is a big one. Free trials
would be the other. The old sign up for a
free trial, free trial, put your credit card tales and
then get to cancel before the end of the free trial,
which I'm sure we've all done.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Actually, I wonder how many people do forget that, because
I've done it. But I diary a reminder on my
calendar and I'll do it for a few days beforehand
to say cancel such and such.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yes see, I'll often discanceer the subscription the sooners I've
paid so they can't charge me at the into the trial.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
But yeah, well I did that with one site, and
one of the sites if you cancel it, they canceled
your trials straight away, which I thought was cunning of
them and their choice, and obviously I wasn't that serious.
The other one is actually, have you ever had do
you ever do? The negotiate a subscription for sale? Obviously
(33:49):
Netflix is Netflix, but you negotiate it by canceling it,
and then you get the email that says or you
get the message saying are you sure you want to go?
I did it for the Telegraph paper in the UK
and it was something like twenty five pounds a month,
and I went dollars and I went stuff this, and
they said how about ten a month? And I said nah,
(34:09):
And I basically canceled again, and I went through about
five stages and then it said how about we give
you the whole year for twenty five bucks? And I
said done. I should probably check that doesn't suddenly kick
in again.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
It'll kick back in at some stage, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I might have to go and check that out. I mean,
have you ever have you had any success with that
or because for me it was an accidental success.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah. I often get that when we cancel subscriptions for
even for business tools and whatnot that offer to heavily
discount the price for a certain period of time, and
even some of the services the likes off your Bone
and broad Banter youa in New Zealand. Often those businesses
have retention teams and if you suggest that you're paying
too much, you can often end up with the sharper price.
(34:55):
So yeah, I think there's something to be said for
bartering and negotiating.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
It's a strange bartering, isn't it, Because sometimes because well
I AI, they use a lot of that. Of it's
a click of a mouse. You say no thanks or
I'm canceling, and they always go are you sure? And
I always wonder how far I can push the yes,
I'm sure? Are you really really sure? Yes, I'm really
really sure, you know, until they go, okay, see you anyway?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
They don't make it easy.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
What are the other places where people squander money? So
subscriptions will be one credit card? People love the points
on credit card, but then if you don't pay it off, boomfer.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Yeah, the payway your fees will pretty The other one
that comes to mind for me at the moment, obviously
on their way out, but I think those add up
over the year.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Do you are you? I'm guessing because you're You've confessed
you're quite a cortious guy. So when you go to
the when you go to the checkout and it says
payway fever feeing, you know you're going to get an
extra ping? Do you go okay, ill and set my
card and enter it manually? Because you like, go, oh
(36:01):
what the hell?
Speaker 3 (36:03):
You've got the measure of me quickly? I absolutely unless
I'm in a rush the taff and I'll be out
of here.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, okay, right, we actually we might just take quick
quick break before we had come back to wrap it
all up. I'm with Simon Brown, he CEO of Banker.
If you'd like to give us a call, or if
you'd like to run an idea you've got with about
saving money or a money hack that you've got that
could save you a bit of money and therefore the
rest of us, and then give us a call on
(36:28):
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. It is eleven minutes
to six. Yes, News Talk said be this is smart money,
And I'm with the Banker CEO b A n q
E R c O Simon Brown, who provides his company
provides financial literacy courses. I guess for schools. Now, Simon, So,
do you do your stuff through sort of privately to
(36:50):
schools or are you hooked up with the government sort
of initiative on this stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
We just were probably directly with schools at the moment,
so a school essentially can visit up. We've signed and
get teed up to use Banker in their school. But
alongside partner's life, we're actually doing some stuff for adults
over the next couple of weeks to celebrate money month
as well. We have a money Month Challenge where adults
can jump online and get amongst our platform and brush
up on their financial literacy skills as well.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Who comes up with Money's Month? Is this? Is this
a government thing? Is it through sorted? Or where does
money month actually come from?
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Exactly sorted? The Retirement Commission run money month?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, oh okay? And what sort of other So partner's life,
what's their gig? What do they do?
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Partner's life? Their personal risk insurance? So they support us
to deliver Banker to schools alongside KVY Bank throughout New
Zealand and to support money Month. We've partnered to create
this money Month Challenge where adults can sign up for
free use our platform for two weeks and explore a
bunch of different financial concepts.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Just while we're talking about those subscriptions, what happens if
they sign up for a couple of weeks? Is it
something where they are they subscribed it? Or how does that?
It is free?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
There were no credit card required, We will not charge
the medtle later date. Totally free for this two weeks.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
So I could ave said that because we have just
been talking by the hooks. Yeah you couldn't have lived
with yourself?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Could You would have been very ironic?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Hey, so what in terms of what what leads to
school to engaging you guys to do you know, to
get the banker services for their for their kids. Is
it just because there are teachers there who get engaged
with and they look for a solution or or how
does it work and what what will be the way
ahead for you guys when it comes to you know,
(38:37):
the financial literacy requirements that are being introduced to schools.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah. So historically it has been just a teacher that's
particularly passionate about financial education and sort it wants to
go above and beyond and deliver it to their students.
With the change of the curriculum, financial education is compulsory
throughout so that will mean that all schools are delivering
financial education and I guess a little bit more impetus
for schools to do so.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's a good move, isn't it?
That doing it? I mean I have this sort of
suspicion that kids are going to have better financial literacy
than the adults in New Zealand. But as you say, so,
what happens when people click on this initiative you guys
are doing. They just go to banker if they want
to check do the two weeks worth the financial literacy?
(39:21):
What do they do?
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Yeah, so they if they're Google search Banker as you say,
B A, N Q, E, R and money Month, it'll
be the top hit that comes up. Essentially, they can
sign up and next Monday, the eighteenth, we'll make a start.
They'll get access to our platform andty'll experience. We'll cover
cover topics like earning, budgeting, TEP management, investing in risk management.
So if someone's, like I said, our conversation today is
(39:44):
resonated with someone and they want to brush up on
those schools, we'll start learning about them. There's been opportunity
to do so.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
I wonder if our caller who was into THEO the
bitcoin or click on that.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
It's funny though we don't unfortunately have bitcoin within the platform,
so they may be disappointed, but we do have investing.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I'm kind of relieved that you said that as well,
because hello, early age, I don't know and who knows
where that's going to go. But hey, thanks for your
time this afternoon. So I'm in a best of luck
with the rest of Money Month.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Thank you jes Cheerz.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
There we go. If you want to check out that
course that you can do for a couple of weeks,
you can go to Banker that's B A n q
e R dot co slash end z by the way,
as the address that popped up. But I think if
you just type and look, if you look for that word,
it's a unique word with a Q and it awhere
you go. So anyway, that wraps up smart Money. Thanks
(40:39):
for your time and thanks for tuning in. If you
have missed any of the show, you know you can
go and check out the Weekend Collectives podcast, or you
can go to news Talk said B dot co dot
nz and we'll be back the same time next week.
Thanks my producer Isaiah Abadingo and Sunday at six is
standing by him. We'll catch you and enjoy the rest
(41:01):
of your Sunday evening. Enjoy the rest of your your weekend.
What this wooded as a world?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
This World. For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live
(41:47):
to news Talks It'd be weekends from three pm, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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