July 5, 2025 • 39 mins
This week on The Panel, Andrew Dickens is joined by Kyle MacDonald and Wilhelmina Shrimpton to discuss the biggest stories from the week that was.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
SAEDB debating all the issues and more. It's the panel
on the Weekend Collective on News Talk, said B.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
So on the panel today we have Carl McDonald, the
psychotherapist and regular contributor to the show, host of The
Nutters Club, and Wilhelmina Shrimpton broadcaster, journalist, pr specialist. I mean,
if it's media, she's there and hello, guys, how are
you hi? Okay, you just wait to say, We'll just
make sure the microphones are turned up to well meter
are you there?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I am here, there, we are.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Great success and Kyl, yes, hello, there we go. Welcome
in on your Sunday. Do you care about the all backs, Kyl?
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Yeah, pretty pretty reasonable amount. Actually yeah, I'm a big
rugby fan.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well I'll ask you that opinion a bit later on, Wilhelmina,
is it okay to say that you now are a
good convert to rugby since you have a significant other
who's significantly involved with rugby. This is well known, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
Yes, it is, but I think everyone assumes me to
be an absolute rugby nut. Now look, I'm probably halfway
there I've learned a lot in the past couple of
years since since expert. Yeah, yeah, totally. No, I'm for
the big games. I'm a bandwagon girl. I hop on
the magwagen and I cheer their black all blacks on.
But to be honest, I'm actually always watching usually games
(01:24):
that don't involve the All Blacks because our referees can't
ref the all Blacks, So of course I'm normally following
the competitions that they're not in.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
And I saw your sign magnificant other refereeing in Perth
with the game against the Western Furce, and so I
presume that he's only gets some tests this year.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Yes, yeah, he's actually reffing the first big game of
the line series in two and a half weeks time
in Brisbane.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
A bucket list item, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Yeah, well, he keeps telling me, and so everyone keeps
telling me. It's so much more exciting and much bigger
than the Rugby World Cup. So I'm really excited. And
I loved being there in Paris for the final, and
it was it was a wonderful ex.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Forty thousand traveling brit fans going to the pub, going
to the hotel. It's an enormous financial boost for Australia
and they'll be coming here soon enough. We'll get to
that a bit later on. I think we can start
talking about the week when saying this was the week
of crime announcements. The government has announced all sorts of
(02:19):
plans to make it easier for police to punish crims shoplifters. Yes,
there's new sentences for shoplisters, stronger penalties for low level theft.
They also during the week announced tougher sentences for assaults
on first responders and punishment of up to life in
jail for coward punches. In fact, they went crazy with
(02:39):
the announcements. They spread them out over four days, which
maximized the news dominated the headlines all week long, which
you have to say is a good political tactic when
you consider the House was in recess at it's the
school holidays and there wasn't a lot of news around,
so poor Rob Paul Goldsmith was up every single day
to talk about another strand to this policy. So the
(03:00):
very simple question I'd have to go to you first, Kyle,
do harsh penalties to criminals?
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
It's a tricky one, isn't it. I mean, I think
what comes to mind for me often with these things
is you know, politically, often I think the point of
some of these announcements is is making people feel safe,
which is often different from whether or not we are safe.
I mean, don't get me wrong, you know, violent crime
that particularly the coward punches rule and the first responder rule,
which I thought actually also sounds very sensible, is a
(03:30):
is a great piece of policy. But I also think
when it comes to some of those low level crimes,
there's not strong evidence that stronger harsher penalties work. And
one of the things, you know, you know, obviously this
is this is my piece, but looking at what the
actual rehabilidation and psychological support is for people, because often
when you we're looking at those low level property crimes,
(03:51):
it's actually often driven by all sorts of psychological difficulties
that people really struggle to access treatment when they go
into the prison system.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Well well, I mean, do you think someone who's out
at night, you know, off the off, off the block,
you know, suddenly they've actually decided it's a good idea
to coward puts someone to smack them in the back
of the head, you know, without them knowing. Do you
think there's something just before they're about to do it.
They're going to go, hold on, there's harsher penalties.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Now, it's so funny that you say that, because that
was just what I was about to say, was that
those crimes.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
It sounds really good on paper.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
It makes you feel safer that, yes, there's harsher penalties,
but in the heat of the moment, you're not going
to be thinking about those harsher penalties. Their heat of
the moment crimes, the coward punches and probably assaults and
attacks against emergency service workers.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
It's the heat of the moment.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
They don't go into their evening or that afternoon, or
go into the hospital and go, you know what, I'm
here to get I'm here to get patched up. I
might deck the blimen paramedic in the head. You're not
actually thinking that through. It's something that sparks the anger
and then it just basically snowballs. I think when it
comes to the low level theret thing as well, I'm
not one hundred percent sure that instant finds are going
(04:59):
to make a difference. You know, you get instantly fined
when we're on the road, polase pull you over, doesn't
really stop me people from speeding again. I don't know
if that's going to make much of a difference. I
do see merit in addressing the underlying cause of it,
and I know the Greens we're calling for this. I
know it needs to be a cumulative approach. It can't
just be.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, more drug and alcoholicral I think its you need
to get to the heart of the problem as well.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Let's get to that a little bit later on. But first,
could you say, Carl therefore, that this actually satisfies the
electorates more because it gives them a chance for revenge
and retribution against the crims to satisfy their outrage.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Well, I think so A National has done a really
good job politically in terms of running on crime and
punishment as a really strong way to garner votes. But
I think it's much more complex, and that's the political
difficulty is it's actually much more complicated to look at
those underlying drivers, even though it actually makes more sense
and it's probably going to be more effective because it's
beyond three years, and it's also hard to measure them.
(05:57):
You know, we're going to talk, you know, wind back
the clock to COVID again today a little bit, but
it's really hard to measure something that doesn't happen. And
that's the thing with rug and alcohol treatment. If we
get to people early, and we intervene and we get
them back on track, then we're actually, how do we
know what didn't happen as a result of getting them
back on track.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
It's harder and it's more expensive, right, and it takes
a long time to get results. And actually they want
to do something that makes the big bang and the
bolls and whistles and we're actually doing something about this,
but will it actually materialize potentially not. I think with
sentencing as well, Again, it looks good on paper, but
often when you get a low level sentence and it
hits two years or below, it defaults to community detention
(06:34):
or home detention. So it's you know a lot of
people's fears are actually going behind bars. But the reality
is that doesn't happen for smaller sentences as well.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, and this is the thing, and I said it
over the course of the week in that the new
first responder rules, you know, is not going to stop
a first responder getting hurt on Wednesday, you know. And
there's the initial problem. However, the opponents to the new rules,
and I'm mainly talking of course about the left wing here. Also, Well,
we've got to address poverty and homelessness, but I don't
(07:05):
know if you've noticed, that's an extraordinarily hard thing to address.
And once you do start addressing it, then you have
to wait for the kids to go up through the
entire system and become adults. So that's a great long
term goal, but you know what's going to happen on Wednesday.
So how do we achieve a balance between trying to
make it better, you make people grow up in a
better environment, versus they're keeping the people safe with harshest
(07:29):
sentences to satisfy their need for some sort of consequence.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Well, part of the problem is you can't break it
down into bullet points very easily, right. But one of
the things I always find interesting about these debates too,
and if you ask any ed doctor, they'll tell you
exactly the same thing is meth is absolutely a problem,
and we should be dealing with that and getting more
treatment in place. But actually eds all around the country
Friday Saturday night. It's alcohol. It's the easy access to
(07:55):
alcohol and what we know again, and it's not very popular.
But what we know is the closing hours and the
frequency of bottle shops, particularly in low socioeconomic areas. We
know that has a direct impact on violent crime and
on the kinds of environments that kids grow with them.
But people are very resistant to reduce their access to alcohol.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Well, can I give you I'll give you an example
about that. Dunedin is very concerned about the fact that
in the student zone where they're all hanging out, Castle Street,
all that sort of thing where they're living, they've slowly,
bit by bit closed all the bars and all the pubs,
and some of the great names of bar history, like
the Captain Cook, they're gone, you know. And then people
were saying, well, the thing about a licensed premises is
(08:34):
that drinking is controlled. It's safer, and it's safer. And
because there is no drinking facilities there now you know,
the kids are just buying it from the supermarket and
taking up in the flats. So do you think that
is actually an example that where people don't understand that
in fact, having more bars is actually better than having
these bars.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Well, yeah, definitely, it's a controlled environment as well. But
I actually don't know whether alcohol is the biggest problem
with the biggest driver and the younger generation, the younger
generation Gen ZS, all those types. It seems like there's
a big movement away from alcohol. So clearly there's another
issue that needs to be addressed for the younger population
because I know, yeah, what are they.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Getting jacked up on?
Speaker 5 (09:16):
Obviously, I mean Carles should probably know.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Well, you know, if you're going to make a statement
like that, you know, what are they doing?
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Well, I mean well, I mean it's absolutely right. Actually,
what the data says, on average, right, is that the
younger generations are drinking less, smoking, east losing, using less strokes,
getting pregnant young less, and actually behaving more responsibility across
the board. The highest drinking levels and bipopulation in New
Zealand is fifty plus no kidding, Yeah, I'm right there.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
How many glasses did you have last night?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Well, we've grown up with it, you know, yeah, and
now and also there's a cost, there's a price barrier
as well. But of course the older generation will say, yeah,
but these guys are all going you know, they're on speed,
they're on method, they're on something or other. They believe
that their behavior is a result of some sort of intoxication, and.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
There's not always the case.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Small numbers people causing big problems.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Okay, now, and do you think they really care about
the harsher penalties?
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Absolutely not No, All right, well here we go. But
they might not even know about the harsher penalties.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I have a text in already as someone that has
a criminal conviction. Harsher penalties will not work because most
people that are committing crime don't believe they're going to
get caught. And after spending six years in prison, I
can tell you only from my personal experience that I
will not commit any more crime as prison took my family,
took my business, and a big chunk of my life
from me. So the consequences for me to commit another
(10:37):
crime is too harsh in itself, rather than the penalty
of going back to prison. So that is where harsher
prison sentences do work as part of the rehabilitation, I guess.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
And again it's in that controlled environment. There are that
you can't not attend, right you know, if you're leaving
it up to someone to actually attend a particular class
or restorative justice or something along those lines, and they're
not in prison, you're leaving it up to them to
arrive on their own court. But within a prison, it's
a controlled ironment. There's a schedule.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
There are staff of course to manage that.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I was remiss because you mentioned it. The drug and
the drug courts basically drugs and alcohol courts these days,
which I've done a lot of work actually doing fundraisers
for them, for emake and judges. It has been great, wonderful.
I always thought slightly ironic that we're drinking wine and
a fund raiser dinner for the drug court. But anyway,
(11:29):
so I've got to talk about it. An awful lot
and I know an awful lot of people don't understand
that someone can commit a crime, can stand up in
front of the judiciary. So I've got a problem and
instead of being sentenced to a jail term or a
big fine, their sentence to get better. And they can't
quite understand.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
That the results are amazing of the trials that they've done.
And I mean again, the person has to be willing.
If they're not willing, then you know the alternative as prison.
But yeah, you know, more treatment is definitely would be
a great way to spend some of this money that's
getting spend on more prisons.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
No, I definitely agree.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
Like I said, I think it needs to be a
multi pronged approach. You can't just chuck all your eggs
one basket and hope that it's going to get better.
There are so many, so many layers of complexity to
dealing with this issue.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
You listening to the Weekend Collective. I'm Andrew Dickinson for
Tim Beveridge, who he's a very brave man. He's taken
his children skiing in the South Island, which is like,
you know, trying to herd cat and he's at round
Hill in the Mackenzie Country having a lovely time. So
Ian Taylor has written another open letter. He got in
quite a habit of that during COVID, of course, particularly
after the lockdown's finished, but MiQ and other things and
(12:37):
mandates were continuing. He wanted businesses to actually pursue be
free to pursue other strategies. He felt the government wasn't listing,
so he'd start writing open letters to Jacinder A durn
or anybody else that they'd all get published. His latest
one has been sparked because of JASINDERA Dud's book, and
he says, yes, you're now brand decinder talking about being kind,
(13:00):
but at the same time you were not kind at
the time due to mi iq and demanded. So it's
an open letter. What did you make of it? Did
you read it?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I did, actually because I sort of started getting quite
a lot of attraction on social media. Look, it actually
really winds me up because I think from a health
point of view, the question that I want to ask
anyone who wants to go back and retrospectively do a
good job, which of course is always very easy, is
how many of those twenty thousand lives that we saved
would you be prepared to sacrifice? And what are each
of those lives worth?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
We talked that. Hold on, you've said already on this
program you can't actually qualtify something that hasn't happened when
you said that about crimes.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
But yes, well, the public health research is clear that
estimate is around about twenty thousand lives were saved compared
to comparable countries in New Zealand, and I think one
of the things we forget, and I have a very
clear memory of this was, you know, sitting on the
couch in the middle of the night for one reason
or another, probably because I couldn't sleep, and seeing the
piles of bodies in refrigerated trucks in New York and
(13:59):
in Italy in particular, this was really terrifying at the beginning,
and I think that fear has faded a lot, and
I guess I'd probably want to say to Ian something
that I occasionally say to my girls when they start
getting stuck on something, which as I start singing that
song from Frozen, let it go.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Okay. I'm not sure that the people that were affected
by this, and you know, it's not the majority, because
we ended out with incredible vaccination rates and a lot
of people did not travel overseas. I know a lot
of people who went in and out of the country
three sometimes four times. They I said, how's that m
IQ system And they said, well, it's drag spending two
weeks at a hotel. It was, but it was possible.
(14:39):
I did it, but unfortunately other people got slammed. And
you know, there are people who have not seen not
seen their babies. There are people who never got to
be with their dying relatives in their last days, and
they're going to hold that anger for a very long time.
How do you possibly solve that that hurt.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
I think time time, you can't take back the clock.
You can't unwind what was done. And I think the
thing is is if Justina had actually taken the approach
where it was all about the economy and it wasn't
a health approach and we had all those bodies piled
up in the backs of trucks like what you were
talking about overseas, this open letter would look very different.
It would bess you messed with our population, Our loved
(15:18):
ones died all for the sake of the economy. I
just think you're not going to please every single person.
There will always be someone who falls through the cracks
and the system. There will always be someone from whom
the system doesn't actually work properly. And there were cases
which was really sad that they weren't able to say
goodbye to loved ones, they weren't able to be there
(15:39):
for the birth of their first.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Son or daughter.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
There will always be cases like that, so it's never
going to be perfect. I do think though the fact
that we're still talking about it, you know, five years.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
On, shows you the level of hurt.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
Which does show you the level of hurt. But I
think as a time we kind of moved on. We
take the lessons that we've learned from that. Again I
had to use that word, but it was unprecedented times.
If those unprecedented times rock up again, perhaps we look
at some of the things that we did well and
some of the things we did poorly last time, and
try and meet in the middle.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Well, we're being told there will be another pandemic. It
was amazing that we had such a gap between pandemics
that so COVID took people supposedly by surprise, even though
people have been warning about this for basically two thousand years.
I mean, let's go back to the Black Death. Let's
go back to everything. And so here's the thing. What
have we learned and what next pandemic that maybe hits
(16:31):
next winter? What have we learned about that?
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Well?
Speaker 4 (16:34):
I mean I think the thing was there was no
good option, right, so it was it was the worst
the best of the worst options. Look, I think one
of the things we know is that probably the strength
of mandate around vaccinations was probably the thing that split
the population the most, and the and the length of
the last lockdown in Auckland. And I think even Chriss
Sipkins has acknowledged that they in the rear view mirror
(16:56):
they can see that Actually that did go on too long.
But you know, some of my passion comes from the
fact that when we started at level four, we had
my sister in law who was working at Middlemore Hospital
who had been drafted into the support the ICU where
they'd you know, literally had geared up to take, you know,
double the amount of people that they normally take. My partner,
(17:17):
who's a community pharmacist, so we were really exposed and
it was really scary, and with two little kids in
the house. I mean, and you could laugh about it
at retrospect, right, you know, the washing, the grocery and
all that, but we kind of had an airlock system.
When they came home from work, they'd come in, they
chucked their clothes straight in the washing pans, straight in
the shower, because it was about how do we stay safe?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
You mentioned it depends on personal relily. I know three
people who died of COVID, and this is in the
UK and also in France, and one of them was
in his forties, you know, so I was hearing this
word it only hurts the old people, it only hurts
the vulnerable. I'm going well, my mate was actually fine,
but he got at big time and he passed away.
And then there were older people as well, and of
(17:56):
course the authorities in England were trying to hide the
fact that she died of COVID by saying, oh, I no,
she just was just old age. But you know, she
was fine one week and then she got COVID and
she was gone the next. So as soon as you
actually hit by the reality of what was happening over
there compared to the fact that I was going to
a six sixty concert and then I was watching the
America's Cup, yeah it was fine. The South Auckland thing
(18:17):
is very interesting because that will be admitted. If you
talk to everybody, they'll say. The problem there was that
they are doubtful of doctors. They can't afford doctors. There
was poverty, there was homelessness, There was crowded living conditions
as well, and they were also fearful of vaccinations. So
that was actually a hothouse out key, a powder keg
for it, which is why Auckland got closed down so long,
(18:37):
which is why of course the government got hated.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
I think the one thing that we could probably learn
and probably take from it is flexibility and being able
to respond to something and actually know that there are
times when it can change and perhaps the approach can
go harder, go softer, to actually.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Respond to what's happening in the moment.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
You know, as soon as those situations came up where
there were people who were being turned away from coming
back into the country when they really actually should be
and they had a really good reason to, you know,
it's not making an exception, but change the process, you know,
you know, is there some kind of submission process. You know,
maybe you appear before a panel of decision makers. I
(19:15):
don't know who that would be, someone through Health New
zealand something like that. Make it flexible.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
There's a benefit of knowing more.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
It's benefit of hindsight.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Do it differently.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, we're supposed to learn about it. But every time
some of these guys who we used to hear on
the radio all the time come out and warn it,
they go, ah, he's still going on about that. Tell me.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
The one they could opengrudge is her making a lot
of money from a book.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Okay, okay, so here we go. I'm just going to
do some audience reaction here. Craig actually writes and says,
the problem with your let it go argument is one
the angst has not been addressed, you know, because they
basically want a trial of some sort or something like that.
I don't know, but we do have an inquiry going on,
right or commissioned.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
That's the whole point of the rule.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And b just Cinda is out there marketing herself off
the experience and not telling the whole story.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Has he has Has Craig read the book, I don't know,
but it sounds like he's read the book. Ye.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Well no, but I can tell you that's true because
I have read the book. You know. There's all sorts
of things about the decision making, particularly in the in
the Auckland Dot lockdown, that is missing from the book entirely.
And it is very positive about if everyone's kind, it
would be a greater world. But that denies the complexity
of the world.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
But it's an autobiography, right, It's a biography, memoir, a memoir, sorry,
memoir direction.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
So it's a memoir.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
So it's about her own experience, right, it's not. It's
not a compilation or a documentary that should tell all sides.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
It's from her side.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
The right it's the other one I know to edit
my own memoir and only include my own truth, said
every person ever, Hey, this would be great. It is
three twenty nine. We've got more to come. The Big
Beautiful Bill has passed legislation. It seems amazing to me
that Donald Trump so loves debt. But we'll talk about
that a bit later on. And I also want to
(21:00):
talk about Lord believe it or not, because she's made
some news today three twenty nine as well. On back
to the program. It is the panel, and on the
panel today we have Carl MacDonald from the Mutters Club
and psychotherapist, and Wilhelmine Shrimpton, a broadcaster with many strings
to her bone.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Thank you, many strengths.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
And there we go, so America, this guy overseas and
the Big Beautiful Bill got passed, and it went through
the Senate. First it was fifty all and jad Vance
actually did the deciding vote. And then it went through
the House of Representatives and it was what to eighteen
two fourteen, So if only another couple of Republicans jumped ship,
it might not have passed. But then there was a
(21:42):
big chance of USA and everybody said, it's a big
beautiful bill. The bill passes numerous tax cuts. Some said
that that's going to help the rich rather than the poor.
Of course, it slams medicaid and aid for the poor.
It slammed food stamps and stuff like that as well.
And of course it's going to increase their debt. It
(22:03):
increases their borrowing limit to five trillion dollars. And of course,
the United States of America already has a debt of
one hundred percent of GDP and they're already on tens
of trillions of dollars. I think it's eighty odd. And
now they're going to be up to eighty three trillion
dollars worth of debt. And I compared that with US,
where we've got a debt of forty two percent of
(22:24):
GDP and they're over one hundred percent and going up.
Why is America not seem to be so concerned about
borrowing and spending? Do you know? Helico?
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Yeah, that's the thing that I find really bizarre. And
I think what probably makes it really obvious how much
of a kind of you know, Trump loyalty test it's
been for the Republicans, because I mean, it took a
while for as I understand it to get the last
few over the line, because it's just so antisical to
conservative right wing public and politics to be blowing the
(22:55):
detail like this.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
I mean, you know, again, from a health point of view,
my concern is just the medicaid. I mean, some of
the stories that are sort of already starting to be predicted,
they're just end us. The number of people that have
got going to lose coverage. I think it's hard for
us to understand. And he's in with, you know, the
safety net that we have with the health system that
if you do not have insurance apart from you know,
getting urgent surgical care, you know, people are going to
(23:19):
be losing their care, support workers, you know, people with disabilities,
losing their income. It's going to be horrendous.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, well, not only that, the bill that gets you afterwards.
So you have a motorcycle crash, you know, break your
leg put and get ahold of pins in and then
you've got one hundred thousand dollars and you don't have
to pay back for the rest of your life, which
you think a student loan is bad in America. Yeah,
but they've always been like that, And there's some that
say that New Zealand, that some politicians in New Zealand
want to push it that way as well, so that
it's your own personal responsibility.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I think that people will be taking to the streets
before you take the healthcare office.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And a lot of people in New Zealand don't even
seem to realize that we're in a remarkably socialist country
no matter who is running the show, because free health care,
free education.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Free police, socialists or just civilized.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Okay, so well, I mean, what did you make of
the whole thing?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Yeah, look, it's called it. They've called it the Beautiful Bill.
I would probably say it was a big ugly bill
whoa Okay, well, you know, mildly ugly bill.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
I mean, I just feel like America just think that
they are the nucleus of the world, particularly Trump thinking
he's the nucleus of America, that they are the ones
that they will do whatever they want in the rest
of the world will follow that perhaps the long term
consequences of whatever they do it will sort itself out
because it's America. They are this powerhouse, when in actual fact,
I don't really know if that's that's entirely true, but
(24:32):
that's what they like to believe, and Trump just walks
to the beat of his own drum. Everything that comes
out of his mouth you can't keep up with. And yeah,
I do worry about the cuts to medical care as well.
I mean, I've got one of my best friends lives
in New York. She is key we born, but she
has American citizenship, and she just talks about how hard
it is over there. It's a scary prospect if you
(24:55):
get sick, if you injure yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Here's a funny thing when you start talking about another country.
You know, Trump has the mandate, Trump was voted for.
It's their country. They can do what like about it.
You know, it's their sovereignty. And when we're here in
New Zealand, we start actually going on I'm a bit
worried about medicaid, but really that's their problem, isn't it.
How do you feel about commenting on other countries' proposals,
(25:18):
particularly if it's you know, it's a liberal democracy that
voted him and this is what he said he was
going to do, and he's gone, He's gone and done.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
It mostly makes me feel grateful. I mean, if I'm
on on site, I take your point and I think
one of the things that's tricky though, is that Trump
did run. I mean, he said numerous times that they
would not touch medicaid on the record. So, but this
is the mess they've got themselves in, isn't it. And
it's such a divided country because again, I actually spent
a couple of years living in the States in the nineties,
(25:44):
ays a young young man in my twenties, and it's
that thing with such a messive country. It's really kind
of fifty different countries. So it's so divided, and when
you look at the way that the vote foras it's
really kind of two separate countries. You know, California and
New York are a long way politically from some of
the Ross Belt that voted for Trump. So I also
feel for people that must just been completely feeling less
(26:05):
doubt and disenfranchised by the direction their country is going.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
There we go, there, we go. Yeah, Look, it's the
ways their problems, their problem is just set from.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
The outside and throw commentary and throw out opinions, and yeah,
I mean, I think based on what we see, I
think we're everyone's entitled entitled to their opinion, and there
are people who we know I'm sure that you guys
have people that you know and love who live in
America who are all affected by this. You know, I've
got rid of good friends over there, like I said
to you, which is before my best friend lives over
(26:37):
there and she's living that reality. I'm actually going to
New York in September.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
To visit and careful about what you say?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah true?
Speaker 5 (26:45):
Oh yeah, oh my god. Hopefully they're not listening to
the podcast of this panel.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah, no, great America. Who because I've got to get in.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Can I just apologize because I gayly said eighty trillion?
In fact, it's only thirty seven trillion.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
That's fine.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah, these zeros are relaxed.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Have you ever what would be like to actually see
thirty seven trillion million dollars in front of I.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Don't even know how many zeros that is, to be
honest with this can fit on the calculator. So public
deat is twenty nine trillion already into governmental holding seven
point two trillion. On average, every US citizen would owe
about one hundred and six thousand, four hundred and eighty
dollars if the debt would divided equally. And what I
find funny about that they raise it the same way
we did when we government printed, you know, with bod
(27:33):
markets and guess who owns all the bonds China. You know,
you can actually argue that China owns America and pays
for all their weapons, and maybe one day, you never know,
China might just go, oh well, call in the debt,
thank you very much. Japan, Canada, Japan and Canada after tariffs,
and that made Trump pause them, so you know.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Saying I'm surprised even already.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, exactly. Okay, so that's enough of overseas. Let's get
back to speed cameras. Do you hate speed cameras, Kyle?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Look, I mean no, one like kidding speed. I've gotten
quite good at spotting the vans on Dominion Road because
there's always one part somewhere, and you know, they change
up the van from time to time, but you can
sort of see the camera at the back of the
van because what annoys me is I don't tend to
(28:22):
drive very fast, but it is annoying when you get
snapped for sort of six k's over four kilometers.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, yeah, okay, well here we go. I did a
little bit of this yesterday. It is there is a
tolerance of four kilometers, but only during holiday periods.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Wait, so what is it during?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
The limit is the limit. However, the police officer who's
doing the snapping can use their discretion as to whether
you know you were really you know, to take a
tolerance in there as well. But it is a speed limit,
not a speed target. So that's that's all right.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
So it's okay to go ten k under and you're
all good from annoying everyone.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Else behind you.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
That's a common thing as well. Care we have fines
some people who go too slow.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
I find the concept of speed cameras quite interesting, just
because if you know them and you see them and
you're familiar with where they are, you slow down just
to get past them, and then you speed up after it.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
So here's the news. The news is point to point
speed cameras are slowly but surely coming into place, and
they've already been in place in a few places. At
a trial Mattakana, there's one up there, and there's a
whole lot in the Bay of plenty State Highway to
State Highway five. I believe the point they measure the
speed that you're going at one point, well, not the
time you arrive at one point the time you then
(29:38):
arrive at the next point. This is number plate recognition stuff.
And then they look at the time, they average it
out and go, well, for to get from there to there,
he must have been going one hundred and ten k
in comes the fine, all right, so this averages out
the question. The thing is, is that system a lot
fairer than having one camera in a static position capturing
(30:00):
one moment in time.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
I think the main thing is that you to make
these things fear. I think you have to know that
they're there, because there's nothing worse than like you say,
it increases compliance because if you know it's there, then
you slow down to avoid the fine.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
What annoys me is when it becomes an income generating
generating thing, right, which is kind of against the spirit
of it. I reckon. Well, so as long as they
signpost it, because they do in Australia, right, they do
this in Australia, and they put signposts up to say
speed monitoring and then you stick to the speed lines.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Oh look, they do here as well, but don't say
speed cameras. They say safety cameras.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Safety cameras. Very very very good marketing.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
There no I think actually not telling people that they're
there would mean that you'd be more likely to comply, right,
because you're not sure where they are on the road,
so you just have to stick to the speed limit,
whereas if you know exactly where they are, like I'm saying,
you're going around the corner. Oh look, here's the corner
that I always travel around on my Thursday afternoons.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Oh oh, got to go forty here.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
So there was a text I got yesterday though. It
was from a police officer and said, I am a
police officer. I do not like speed cameras. I do
give out speed tickets. I stop people and they learn
and they see a person giving them a ticket and
giving them a little bit of a lecture and explaining
why they're getting the ticket. Also, everyone that passes by
(31:18):
the police officer sees a police officer actively giving out
the speed ticket and they go oho, hey, yeah, you
could actually get pinged on this and it could cost us.
And he believes that having humans only issuing speed tickets
is a better way of policing than having a machine
that snaps a picture then sends you, sends you a
letter or an email. You know, a week after the
(31:41):
event and you can't even remember where you were and
what you were doing.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
You probably needed more cops to do that then though,
you probably need more frontline officers and enable it to
actually for it to be effective. But I can see
his point because then at materialized more.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
If you actually have to interact with the police officer.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
They're nothing like the heart palpitations that you feel when
you're either a cops behind you or you see the lights?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Was that for me but it wasn't for you.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I get them when I see, you know, drink driving stops, Yes,
are you driving up? And I go, oh, it's a
drink driving stop? And then you know hell, and my
partner will go, have you had a drink Today's no?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, it's like I literally had lemonade form freaking out.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I haven't had a drink in two days. No, what
are you worried about it? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
It's a carp Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Good South. It is sixteen to four. This is the
panel with Car McDonald's will mean a shrimped to Mona
Andrew Dickens in for for to Beveridge backing Car McDonald
and will mean a shrimped in my special guests on
the panel, Jeff is a gone dead and bearing Carl.
Are you hat broken?
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Well, yeah, but I definitely I am. But I also
thought when I saw the story, I'm like, okay, she
remember the last time I had of Jeff? I tell
you what to do? Miss snuffers. Oh okay, I missed
the snuff They've been gone for a long There was
just there was. There was the nougat.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Are they like a mint?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, big huke.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It's like peepie chows. Just gross. It's like it's like
chocolate covered toothpaste.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
No, you gross.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Look, I'm sad.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Now that I know that they're going, But I can't
remember the last time that I went to the movies
and thought, oh, grab a pack of Jaffers. But let
me ask you this question, when was the last time
that you actually saw some marketing or pr or anything
around a Jaffer?
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Right?
Speaker 5 (33:19):
And no matter how long standing a legacy brand is,
if you're not doing the right job and advertising it
and putting it in front of people's faces and sending
it out to influences and all that jazz, then no
matter how long it's been around, it of course is
going to drop off people's consciousness because there's so many
different brands out there.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I think Karl actually hit it right away. When was
the last time you bought some Jaffers? And I got
this when the Smith and Coey closure happened in Auckland,
and I wrote an article and about all the different
factors that related to the closure. But at the end
of the day, I said, when was the last time
you went to Smith and Coey's? So you tell me
why you didn't go, and that will be the reason
(33:59):
why it closed, rather than crying crocodile tears for something
that you thought you loved but in fact you never supported.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Also, when was the last time you went to the
supermarket and saw a packet of Jeffers on sale? Because
I can't remember a dairy or a supermarket or even
a movie theater where they were.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
If they were there, maybe I would haven't been in
the boxes for you.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
It was quite like the marketing.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Of the boxing, big big point. I went and looked
to the supermarket. Then they're in plastic bags now, But
the whole thing was the boxes that you could then
shake and rattle and roll and then roll them down
the cinema aisle and then throw them in the air.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
But then where was the marketing campaign for the bags?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Was it that they did the jeff roll down street
the steepest street?
Speaker 4 (34:39):
So many marketing that was fun?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
When when was that years ago? Because when did anyone
buy Jeffers? And it is sad when an icon goes.
But there was a person from marketing who said, you know,
some products just don't last forever.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
You know, nothing lasts last forever.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
That's depressing.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
I know.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Hey, so I want to ask you about Lord, the
New Zealand artist who has an album out called Virgin
that got released a week It's gone to number one
in the United Kingdom, the first time she's ever been there. Congratulations.
She's number one in New Zealand, and she's got the
number one single as well with Hammer, and she's number
one in Australia. This is the fourth time she's been
number one. But I know that whenever I mentioned well
(35:20):
done Lord on this radio station, people go, she can't
sing and she's a bit crazy savage, which I thought
was savage, and I went, yeah, okay, but.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
It's the generational gap speaking.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Is it really you reckon? Oh?
Speaker 4 (35:33):
Look I think so. I mean, you know, people said
the same thing about the Beatles, didn't they in the sixties.
But look, as I said to you before we came
on here, I went to be intermediate school and take
a poona Brama.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
So she's a proud, proud alumni of.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Both of those fine institutions. Look, I think she's great.
I mean I've tended to listen to her albums or
once or twice when they've come out, But I've got
a fourteen year old and eleven year old girl and
they love it. Yeah, she's up there with Taylor.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
But she's been itchy with because she's the marketing for
this has been brilliant. From an event at Washington Square that.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
She see her Toilette take toilet Takeover.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And she was listening party in Sydney, some amazing interviews.
She did her first gig at Glastonbury, you know which
people had to be turned away from her and it's
just and then she released an album it's gone to
number one. But in the course of those interviews she
was actually quite edgy as well. She talked gender issues
and she also talked about how she's got over her
stage fright by doing microdocic of MDMA MDMA therapy. And
(36:29):
I also know that a lot of people listening to
this radio station will go, well, that's freakish, and that's
a bit dangerous, and that's a bit crazy.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
I think that she's using her platform the best way
that she can, you know, And there are a lot
of people and a lot of celebrities and a lot
of pop stars and whatever who would probably talk about
something ridiculously vapid and nothing that had any substance to it.
So I definitely think she deserves some recognition for using
her platform to get across some issues that deserved to
be spoken about.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Love her music.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
I remember listening to Royals for the first time I
must have been about twenty two. Absolutely loved it, and
I remember thinking she's going to be huge. But equally
she is very edgy. I don't know if we if
we met, that would be friends, because I just don't
think that i'd be her vibe.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I've got a text chair saying Lord is creepy and
scary mom. There was an article during the week in
the UK which said Lord is not looking good and
that's purposeful, and everyone attacked the writers saying, well, what
is your definition of looking good? Do you want to
look tramping like Charlie XCX. You wanted to be wearing
(37:30):
what Taylor Swift wears, which is like a bathing suit.
You know, is that looking good? What is looking good?
Whereas you know that she is actually spending quite a
lot of money on her clothes. But there is a
grunge look to it all, Kyle, and this is this
is the this is the whole thing about females in perception.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
I think she's a deeply creative person who's just out
there being herself. I think it's fantastic. I think it's
a shame that we can't get behind her as a
key we like. I mean, look at the look at
the different response to say Liam Lawson, who arguably is
not doing anywhere near as good in Formula one as
she is doing on the music show. So get behind
to keep me doing well. You don't have to listen
to the music to support it.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
I thank you with just seven or four whether me
to Shrimpton and car McDonald. One last question, all backs friends,
who's going to win? I'll tell you the odds. The
tab Reckons, the all backs one dollar and seven cents,
the French seven dollars fifty, So they think it's going
to be a walkover. I'll go for Carfins.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Yeah, despite being a rugby chur check, I never been
on sports because I'm horrible at predicting, But the All
Banks are usually a bit rusty, so I think it'll
be a bit closer, but I think we'll get there
in the end by a decent margin.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
What was it that Scott Robinson was saying, don't underestimate
the French team. We are versing the B team, so
it would be a shock if they didn't win. But
of course, being the patriot that I am, I'm going
to say the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
And I thank you both for your time today, go
out and have a lovely Saturday. We're going to stay
here and keep the program going with the One Roof
Property Show on its way right here on news Stool
to B.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Talk ZEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
SAEDB debating all the issues and more. It's the panel
on the Weekend Collective on News Talk, said B.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
So on the panel today we have Carl McDonald, the
psychotherapist and regular contributor to the show, host of The
Nutters Club, and Wilhelmina Shrimpton broadcaster, journalist, pr specialist. I mean,
if it's media, she's there and hello, guys, how are
you hi? Okay, you just wait to say, We'll just
make sure the microphones are turned up to well meter
are you there?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I am here, there, we are.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Great success and Kyl, yes, hello, there we go. Welcome
in on your Sunday. Do you care about the all backs, Kyl?
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Yeah, pretty pretty reasonable amount. Actually yeah, I'm a big
rugby fan.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well I'll ask you that opinion a bit later on, Wilhelmina,
is it okay to say that you now are a
good convert to rugby since you have a significant other
who's significantly involved with rugby. This is well known, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
Yes, it is, but I think everyone assumes me to
be an absolute rugby nut. Now look, I'm probably halfway
there I've learned a lot in the past couple of
years since since expert. Yeah, yeah, totally. No, I'm for
the big games. I'm a bandwagon girl. I hop on
the magwagen and I cheer their black all blacks on.
But to be honest, I'm actually always watching usually games
(01:24):
that don't involve the All Blacks because our referees can't
ref the all Blacks, So of course I'm normally following
the competitions that they're not in.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
And I saw your sign magnificant other refereeing in Perth
with the game against the Western Furce, and so I
presume that he's only gets some tests this year.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Yes, yeah, he's actually reffing the first big game of
the line series in two and a half weeks time
in Brisbane.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
A bucket list item, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Yeah, well, he keeps telling me, and so everyone keeps
telling me. It's so much more exciting and much bigger
than the Rugby World Cup. So I'm really excited. And
I loved being there in Paris for the final, and
it was it was a wonderful ex.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Forty thousand traveling brit fans going to the pub, going
to the hotel. It's an enormous financial boost for Australia
and they'll be coming here soon enough. We'll get to
that a bit later on. I think we can start
talking about the week when saying this was the week
of crime announcements. The government has announced all sorts of
(02:19):
plans to make it easier for police to punish crims shoplifters. Yes,
there's new sentences for shoplisters, stronger penalties for low level theft.
They also during the week announced tougher sentences for assaults
on first responders and punishment of up to life in
jail for coward punches. In fact, they went crazy with
(02:39):
the announcements. They spread them out over four days, which
maximized the news dominated the headlines all week long, which
you have to say is a good political tactic when
you consider the House was in recess at it's the
school holidays and there wasn't a lot of news around,
so poor Rob Paul Goldsmith was up every single day
to talk about another strand to this policy. So the
(03:00):
very simple question I'd have to go to you first, Kyle,
do harsh penalties to criminals?
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
It's a tricky one, isn't it. I mean, I think
what comes to mind for me often with these things
is you know, politically, often I think the point of
some of these announcements is is making people feel safe,
which is often different from whether or not we are safe.
I mean, don't get me wrong, you know, violent crime
that particularly the coward punches rule and the first responder rule,
which I thought actually also sounds very sensible, is a
(03:30):
is a great piece of policy. But I also think
when it comes to some of those low level crimes,
there's not strong evidence that stronger harsher penalties work. And
one of the things, you know, you know, obviously this
is this is my piece, but looking at what the
actual rehabilidation and psychological support is for people, because often
when you we're looking at those low level property crimes,
(03:51):
it's actually often driven by all sorts of psychological difficulties
that people really struggle to access treatment when they go
into the prison system.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Well well, I mean, do you think someone who's out
at night, you know, off the off, off the block,
you know, suddenly they've actually decided it's a good idea
to coward puts someone to smack them in the back
of the head, you know, without them knowing. Do you
think there's something just before they're about to do it.
They're going to go, hold on, there's harsher penalties.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Now, it's so funny that you say that, because that
was just what I was about to say, was that
those crimes.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
It sounds really good on paper.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
It makes you feel safer that, yes, there's harsher penalties,
but in the heat of the moment, you're not going
to be thinking about those harsher penalties. Their heat of
the moment crimes, the coward punches and probably assaults and
attacks against emergency service workers.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
It's the heat of the moment.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
They don't go into their evening or that afternoon, or
go into the hospital and go, you know what, I'm
here to get I'm here to get patched up. I
might deck the blimen paramedic in the head. You're not
actually thinking that through. It's something that sparks the anger
and then it just basically snowballs. I think when it
comes to the low level theret thing as well, I'm
not one hundred percent sure that instant finds are going
(04:59):
to make a difference. You know, you get instantly fined
when we're on the road, polase pull you over, doesn't
really stop me people from speeding again. I don't know
if that's going to make much of a difference. I
do see merit in addressing the underlying cause of it,
and I know the Greens we're calling for this. I
know it needs to be a cumulative approach. It can't
just be.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, more drug and alcoholicral I think its you need
to get to the heart of the problem as well.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Let's get to that a little bit later on. But first,
could you say, Carl therefore, that this actually satisfies the
electorates more because it gives them a chance for revenge
and retribution against the crims to satisfy their outrage.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Well, I think so A National has done a really
good job politically in terms of running on crime and
punishment as a really strong way to garner votes. But
I think it's much more complex, and that's the political
difficulty is it's actually much more complicated to look at
those underlying drivers, even though it actually makes more sense
and it's probably going to be more effective because it's
beyond three years, and it's also hard to measure them.
(05:57):
You know, we're going to talk, you know, wind back
the clock to COVID again today a little bit, but
it's really hard to measure something that doesn't happen. And
that's the thing with rug and alcohol treatment. If we
get to people early, and we intervene and we get
them back on track, then we're actually, how do we
know what didn't happen as a result of getting them
back on track.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
It's harder and it's more expensive, right, and it takes
a long time to get results. And actually they want
to do something that makes the big bang and the
bolls and whistles and we're actually doing something about this,
but will it actually materialize potentially not. I think with
sentencing as well, Again, it looks good on paper, but
often when you get a low level sentence and it
hits two years or below, it defaults to community detention
(06:34):
or home detention. So it's you know a lot of
people's fears are actually going behind bars. But the reality
is that doesn't happen for smaller sentences as well.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, and this is the thing, and I said it
over the course of the week in that the new
first responder rules, you know, is not going to stop
a first responder getting hurt on Wednesday, you know. And
there's the initial problem. However, the opponents to the new rules,
and I'm mainly talking of course about the left wing here. Also, Well,
we've got to address poverty and homelessness, but I don't
(07:05):
know if you've noticed, that's an extraordinarily hard thing to address.
And once you do start addressing it, then you have
to wait for the kids to go up through the
entire system and become adults. So that's a great long
term goal, but you know what's going to happen on Wednesday.
So how do we achieve a balance between trying to
make it better, you make people grow up in a
better environment, versus they're keeping the people safe with harshest
(07:29):
sentences to satisfy their need for some sort of consequence.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Well, part of the problem is you can't break it
down into bullet points very easily, right. But one of
the things I always find interesting about these debates too,
and if you ask any ed doctor, they'll tell you
exactly the same thing is meth is absolutely a problem,
and we should be dealing with that and getting more
treatment in place. But actually eds all around the country
Friday Saturday night. It's alcohol. It's the easy access to
(07:55):
alcohol and what we know again, and it's not very popular.
But what we know is the closing hours and the
frequency of bottle shops, particularly in low socioeconomic areas. We
know that has a direct impact on violent crime and
on the kinds of environments that kids grow with them.
But people are very resistant to reduce their access to alcohol.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Well, can I give you I'll give you an example
about that. Dunedin is very concerned about the fact that
in the student zone where they're all hanging out, Castle Street,
all that sort of thing where they're living, they've slowly,
bit by bit closed all the bars and all the pubs,
and some of the great names of bar history, like
the Captain Cook, they're gone, you know. And then people
were saying, well, the thing about a licensed premises is
(08:34):
that drinking is controlled. It's safer, and it's safer. And
because there is no drinking facilities there now you know,
the kids are just buying it from the supermarket and
taking up in the flats. So do you think that
is actually an example that where people don't understand that
in fact, having more bars is actually better than having
these bars.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Well, yeah, definitely, it's a controlled environment as well. But
I actually don't know whether alcohol is the biggest problem
with the biggest driver and the younger generation, the younger
generation Gen ZS, all those types. It seems like there's
a big movement away from alcohol. So clearly there's another
issue that needs to be addressed for the younger population
because I know, yeah, what are they.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Getting jacked up on?
Speaker 5 (09:16):
Obviously, I mean Carles should probably know.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Well, you know, if you're going to make a statement
like that, you know, what are they doing?
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Well, I mean well, I mean it's absolutely right. Actually,
what the data says, on average, right, is that the
younger generations are drinking less, smoking, east losing, using less strokes,
getting pregnant young less, and actually behaving more responsibility across
the board. The highest drinking levels and bipopulation in New
Zealand is fifty plus no kidding, Yeah, I'm right there.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
How many glasses did you have last night?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Well, we've grown up with it, you know, yeah, and
now and also there's a cost, there's a price barrier
as well. But of course the older generation will say, yeah,
but these guys are all going you know, they're on speed,
they're on method, they're on something or other. They believe
that their behavior is a result of some sort of intoxication, and.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
There's not always the case.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Small numbers people causing big problems.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Okay, now, and do you think they really care about
the harsher penalties?
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Absolutely not No, All right, well here we go. But
they might not even know about the harsher penalties.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I have a text in already as someone that has
a criminal conviction. Harsher penalties will not work because most
people that are committing crime don't believe they're going to
get caught. And after spending six years in prison, I
can tell you only from my personal experience that I
will not commit any more crime as prison took my family,
took my business, and a big chunk of my life
from me. So the consequences for me to commit another
(10:37):
crime is too harsh in itself, rather than the penalty
of going back to prison. So that is where harsher
prison sentences do work as part of the rehabilitation, I guess.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
And again it's in that controlled environment. There are that
you can't not attend, right you know, if you're leaving
it up to someone to actually attend a particular class
or restorative justice or something along those lines, and they're
not in prison, you're leaving it up to them to
arrive on their own court. But within a prison, it's
a controlled ironment. There's a schedule.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
There are staff of course to manage that.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I was remiss because you mentioned it. The drug and
the drug courts basically drugs and alcohol courts these days,
which I've done a lot of work actually doing fundraisers
for them, for emake and judges. It has been great, wonderful.
I always thought slightly ironic that we're drinking wine and
a fund raiser dinner for the drug court. But anyway,
(11:29):
so I've got to talk about it. An awful lot
and I know an awful lot of people don't understand
that someone can commit a crime, can stand up in
front of the judiciary. So I've got a problem and
instead of being sentenced to a jail term or a
big fine, their sentence to get better. And they can't
quite understand.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
That the results are amazing of the trials that they've done.
And I mean again, the person has to be willing.
If they're not willing, then you know the alternative as prison.
But yeah, you know, more treatment is definitely would be
a great way to spend some of this money that's
getting spend on more prisons.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
No, I definitely agree.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
Like I said, I think it needs to be a
multi pronged approach. You can't just chuck all your eggs
one basket and hope that it's going to get better.
There are so many, so many layers of complexity to
dealing with this issue.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
You listening to the Weekend Collective. I'm Andrew Dickinson for
Tim Beveridge, who he's a very brave man. He's taken
his children skiing in the South Island, which is like,
you know, trying to herd cat and he's at round
Hill in the Mackenzie Country having a lovely time. So
Ian Taylor has written another open letter. He got in
quite a habit of that during COVID, of course, particularly
after the lockdown's finished, but MiQ and other things and
(12:37):
mandates were continuing. He wanted businesses to actually pursue be
free to pursue other strategies. He felt the government wasn't listing,
so he'd start writing open letters to Jacinder A durn
or anybody else that they'd all get published. His latest
one has been sparked because of JASINDERA Dud's book, and
he says, yes, you're now brand decinder talking about being kind,
(13:00):
but at the same time you were not kind at
the time due to mi iq and demanded. So it's
an open letter. What did you make of it? Did
you read it?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I did, actually because I sort of started getting quite
a lot of attraction on social media. Look, it actually
really winds me up because I think from a health
point of view, the question that I want to ask
anyone who wants to go back and retrospectively do a
good job, which of course is always very easy, is
how many of those twenty thousand lives that we saved
would you be prepared to sacrifice? And what are each
of those lives worth?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
We talked that. Hold on, you've said already on this
program you can't actually qualtify something that hasn't happened when
you said that about crimes.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
But yes, well, the public health research is clear that
estimate is around about twenty thousand lives were saved compared
to comparable countries in New Zealand, and I think one
of the things we forget, and I have a very
clear memory of this was, you know, sitting on the
couch in the middle of the night for one reason
or another, probably because I couldn't sleep, and seeing the
piles of bodies in refrigerated trucks in New York and
(13:59):
in Italy in particular, this was really terrifying at the beginning,
and I think that fear has faded a lot, and
I guess I'd probably want to say to Ian something
that I occasionally say to my girls when they start
getting stuck on something, which as I start singing that
song from Frozen, let it go.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Okay. I'm not sure that the people that were affected
by this, and you know, it's not the majority, because
we ended out with incredible vaccination rates and a lot
of people did not travel overseas. I know a lot
of people who went in and out of the country
three sometimes four times. They I said, how's that m
IQ system And they said, well, it's drag spending two
weeks at a hotel. It was, but it was possible.
(14:39):
I did it, but unfortunately other people got slammed. And
you know, there are people who have not seen not
seen their babies. There are people who never got to
be with their dying relatives in their last days, and
they're going to hold that anger for a very long time.
How do you possibly solve that that hurt.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
I think time time, you can't take back the clock.
You can't unwind what was done. And I think the
thing is is if Justina had actually taken the approach
where it was all about the economy and it wasn't
a health approach and we had all those bodies piled
up in the backs of trucks like what you were
talking about overseas, this open letter would look very different.
It would bess you messed with our population, Our loved
(15:18):
ones died all for the sake of the economy. I
just think you're not going to please every single person.
There will always be someone who falls through the cracks
and the system. There will always be someone from whom
the system doesn't actually work properly. And there were cases
which was really sad that they weren't able to say
goodbye to loved ones, they weren't able to be there
(15:39):
for the birth of their first.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Son or daughter.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
There will always be cases like that, so it's never
going to be perfect. I do think though the fact
that we're still talking about it, you know, five years.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
On, shows you the level of hurt.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
Which does show you the level of hurt. But I
think as a time we kind of moved on. We
take the lessons that we've learned from that. Again I
had to use that word, but it was unprecedented times.
If those unprecedented times rock up again, perhaps we look
at some of the things that we did well and
some of the things we did poorly last time, and
try and meet in the middle.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Well, we're being told there will be another pandemic. It
was amazing that we had such a gap between pandemics
that so COVID took people supposedly by surprise, even though
people have been warning about this for basically two thousand years.
I mean, let's go back to the Black Death. Let's
go back to everything. And so here's the thing. What
have we learned and what next pandemic that maybe hits
(16:31):
next winter? What have we learned about that?
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Well?
Speaker 4 (16:34):
I mean I think the thing was there was no
good option, right, so it was it was the worst
the best of the worst options. Look, I think one
of the things we know is that probably the strength
of mandate around vaccinations was probably the thing that split
the population the most, and the and the length of
the last lockdown in Auckland. And I think even Chriss
Sipkins has acknowledged that they in the rear view mirror
(16:56):
they can see that Actually that did go on too long.
But you know, some of my passion comes from the
fact that when we started at level four, we had
my sister in law who was working at Middlemore Hospital
who had been drafted into the support the ICU where
they'd you know, literally had geared up to take, you know,
double the amount of people that they normally take. My partner,
(17:17):
who's a community pharmacist, so we were really exposed and
it was really scary, and with two little kids in
the house. I mean, and you could laugh about it
at retrospect, right, you know, the washing, the grocery and
all that, but we kind of had an airlock system.
When they came home from work, they'd come in, they
chucked their clothes straight in the washing pans, straight in
the shower, because it was about how do we stay safe?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
You mentioned it depends on personal relily. I know three
people who died of COVID, and this is in the
UK and also in France, and one of them was
in his forties, you know, so I was hearing this
word it only hurts the old people, it only hurts
the vulnerable. I'm going well, my mate was actually fine,
but he got at big time and he passed away.
And then there were older people as well, and of
(17:56):
course the authorities in England were trying to hide the
fact that she died of COVID by saying, oh, I no,
she just was just old age. But you know, she
was fine one week and then she got COVID and
she was gone the next. So as soon as you
actually hit by the reality of what was happening over
there compared to the fact that I was going to
a six sixty concert and then I was watching the
America's Cup, yeah it was fine. The South Auckland thing
(18:17):
is very interesting because that will be admitted. If you
talk to everybody, they'll say. The problem there was that
they are doubtful of doctors. They can't afford doctors. There
was poverty, there was homelessness, There was crowded living conditions
as well, and they were also fearful of vaccinations. So
that was actually a hothouse out key, a powder keg
for it, which is why Auckland got closed down so long,
(18:37):
which is why of course the government got hated.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
I think the one thing that we could probably learn
and probably take from it is flexibility and being able
to respond to something and actually know that there are
times when it can change and perhaps the approach can
go harder, go softer, to actually.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Respond to what's happening in the moment.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
You know, as soon as those situations came up where
there were people who were being turned away from coming
back into the country when they really actually should be
and they had a really good reason to, you know,
it's not making an exception, but change the process, you know,
you know, is there some kind of submission process. You know,
maybe you appear before a panel of decision makers. I
(19:15):
don't know who that would be, someone through Health New
zealand something like that. Make it flexible.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
There's a benefit of knowing more.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
It's benefit of hindsight.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Do it differently.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, we're supposed to learn about it. But every time
some of these guys who we used to hear on
the radio all the time come out and warn it,
they go, ah, he's still going on about that. Tell me.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
The one they could opengrudge is her making a lot
of money from a book.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Okay, okay, so here we go. I'm just going to
do some audience reaction here. Craig actually writes and says,
the problem with your let it go argument is one
the angst has not been addressed, you know, because they
basically want a trial of some sort or something like that.
I don't know, but we do have an inquiry going on,
right or commissioned.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
That's the whole point of the rule.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And b just Cinda is out there marketing herself off
the experience and not telling the whole story.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Has he has Has Craig read the book, I don't know,
but it sounds like he's read the book. Ye.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Well no, but I can tell you that's true because
I have read the book. You know. There's all sorts
of things about the decision making, particularly in the in
the Auckland Dot lockdown, that is missing from the book entirely.
And it is very positive about if everyone's kind, it
would be a greater world. But that denies the complexity
of the world.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
But it's an autobiography, right, It's a biography, memoir, a memoir, sorry,
memoir direction.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
So it's a memoir.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
So it's about her own experience, right, it's not. It's
not a compilation or a documentary that should tell all sides.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
It's from her side.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
The right it's the other one I know to edit
my own memoir and only include my own truth, said
every person ever, Hey, this would be great. It is
three twenty nine. We've got more to come. The Big
Beautiful Bill has passed legislation. It seems amazing to me
that Donald Trump so loves debt. But we'll talk about
that a bit later on. And I also want to
(21:00):
talk about Lord believe it or not, because she's made
some news today three twenty nine as well. On back
to the program. It is the panel, and on the
panel today we have Carl MacDonald from the Mutters Club
and psychotherapist, and Wilhelmine Shrimpton, a broadcaster with many strings
to her bone.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Thank you, many strengths.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
And there we go, so America, this guy overseas and
the Big Beautiful Bill got passed, and it went through
the Senate. First it was fifty all and jad Vance
actually did the deciding vote. And then it went through
the House of Representatives and it was what to eighteen
two fourteen, So if only another couple of Republicans jumped ship,
it might not have passed. But then there was a
(21:42):
big chance of USA and everybody said, it's a big
beautiful bill. The bill passes numerous tax cuts. Some said
that that's going to help the rich rather than the poor.
Of course, it slams medicaid and aid for the poor.
It slammed food stamps and stuff like that as well.
And of course it's going to increase their debt. It
(22:03):
increases their borrowing limit to five trillion dollars. And of course,
the United States of America already has a debt of
one hundred percent of GDP and they're already on tens
of trillions of dollars. I think it's eighty odd. And
now they're going to be up to eighty three trillion
dollars worth of debt. And I compared that with US,
where we've got a debt of forty two percent of
(22:24):
GDP and they're over one hundred percent and going up.
Why is America not seem to be so concerned about
borrowing and spending? Do you know? Helico?
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Yeah, that's the thing that I find really bizarre. And
I think what probably makes it really obvious how much
of a kind of you know, Trump loyalty test it's
been for the Republicans, because I mean, it took a
while for as I understand it to get the last
few over the line, because it's just so antisical to
conservative right wing public and politics to be blowing the
(22:55):
detail like this.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
I mean, you know, again, from a health point of view,
my concern is just the medicaid. I mean, some of
the stories that are sort of already starting to be predicted,
they're just end us. The number of people that have
got going to lose coverage. I think it's hard for
us to understand. And he's in with, you know, the
safety net that we have with the health system that
if you do not have insurance apart from you know,
getting urgent surgical care, you know, people are going to
(23:19):
be losing their care, support workers, you know, people with disabilities,
losing their income. It's going to be horrendous.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, well, not only that, the bill that gets you afterwards.
So you have a motorcycle crash, you know, break your
leg put and get ahold of pins in and then
you've got one hundred thousand dollars and you don't have
to pay back for the rest of your life, which
you think a student loan is bad in America. Yeah,
but they've always been like that, And there's some that
say that New Zealand, that some politicians in New Zealand
want to push it that way as well, so that
it's your own personal responsibility.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I think that people will be taking to the streets
before you take the healthcare office.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And a lot of people in New Zealand don't even
seem to realize that we're in a remarkably socialist country
no matter who is running the show, because free health care,
free education.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Free police, socialists or just civilized.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Okay, so well, I mean, what did you make of
the whole thing?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Yeah, look, it's called it. They've called it the Beautiful Bill.
I would probably say it was a big ugly bill
whoa Okay, well, you know, mildly ugly bill.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
I mean, I just feel like America just think that
they are the nucleus of the world, particularly Trump thinking
he's the nucleus of America, that they are the ones
that they will do whatever they want in the rest
of the world will follow that perhaps the long term
consequences of whatever they do it will sort itself out
because it's America. They are this powerhouse, when in actual fact,
I don't really know if that's that's entirely true, but
(24:32):
that's what they like to believe, and Trump just walks
to the beat of his own drum. Everything that comes
out of his mouth you can't keep up with. And yeah,
I do worry about the cuts to medical care as well.
I mean, I've got one of my best friends lives
in New York. She is key we born, but she
has American citizenship, and she just talks about how hard
it is over there. It's a scary prospect if you
(24:55):
get sick, if you injure yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Here's a funny thing when you start talking about another country.
You know, Trump has the mandate, Trump was voted for.
It's their country. They can do what like about it.
You know, it's their sovereignty. And when we're here in
New Zealand, we start actually going on I'm a bit
worried about medicaid, but really that's their problem, isn't it.
How do you feel about commenting on other countries' proposals,
(25:18):
particularly if it's you know, it's a liberal democracy that
voted him and this is what he said he was
going to do, and he's gone, He's gone and done.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
It mostly makes me feel grateful. I mean, if I'm
on on site, I take your point and I think
one of the things that's tricky though, is that Trump
did run. I mean, he said numerous times that they
would not touch medicaid on the record. So, but this
is the mess they've got themselves in, isn't it. And
it's such a divided country because again, I actually spent
a couple of years living in the States in the nineties,
(25:44):
ays a young young man in my twenties, and it's
that thing with such a messive country. It's really kind
of fifty different countries. So it's so divided, and when
you look at the way that the vote foras it's
really kind of two separate countries. You know, California and
New York are a long way politically from some of
the Ross Belt that voted for Trump. So I also
feel for people that must just been completely feeling less
(26:05):
doubt and disenfranchised by the direction their country is going.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
There we go, there, we go. Yeah, Look, it's the
ways their problems, their problem is just set from.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
The outside and throw commentary and throw out opinions, and yeah,
I mean, I think based on what we see, I
think we're everyone's entitled entitled to their opinion, and there
are people who we know I'm sure that you guys
have people that you know and love who live in
America who are all affected by this. You know, I've
got rid of good friends over there, like I said
to you, which is before my best friend lives over
(26:37):
there and she's living that reality. I'm actually going to
New York in September.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
To visit and careful about what you say?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah true?
Speaker 5 (26:45):
Oh yeah, oh my god. Hopefully they're not listening to
the podcast of this panel.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah, no, great America. Who because I've got to get in.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Can I just apologize because I gayly said eighty trillion?
In fact, it's only thirty seven trillion.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
That's fine.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah, these zeros are relaxed.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Have you ever what would be like to actually see
thirty seven trillion million dollars in front of I.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Don't even know how many zeros that is, to be
honest with this can fit on the calculator. So public
deat is twenty nine trillion already into governmental holding seven
point two trillion. On average, every US citizen would owe
about one hundred and six thousand, four hundred and eighty
dollars if the debt would divided equally. And what I
find funny about that they raise it the same way
we did when we government printed, you know, with bod
(27:33):
markets and guess who owns all the bonds China. You know,
you can actually argue that China owns America and pays
for all their weapons, and maybe one day, you never know,
China might just go, oh well, call in the debt,
thank you very much. Japan, Canada, Japan and Canada after tariffs,
and that made Trump pause them, so you know.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Saying I'm surprised even already.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, exactly. Okay, so that's enough of overseas. Let's get
back to speed cameras. Do you hate speed cameras, Kyle?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Look, I mean no, one like kidding speed. I've gotten
quite good at spotting the vans on Dominion Road because
there's always one part somewhere, and you know, they change
up the van from time to time, but you can
sort of see the camera at the back of the
van because what annoys me is I don't tend to
(28:22):
drive very fast, but it is annoying when you get
snapped for sort of six k's over four kilometers.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, yeah, okay, well here we go. I did a
little bit of this yesterday. It is there is a
tolerance of four kilometers, but only during holiday periods.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Wait, so what is it during?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
The limit is the limit. However, the police officer who's
doing the snapping can use their discretion as to whether
you know you were really you know, to take a
tolerance in there as well. But it is a speed limit,
not a speed target. So that's that's all right.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
So it's okay to go ten k under and you're
all good from annoying everyone.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Else behind you.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
That's a common thing as well. Care we have fines
some people who go too slow.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
I find the concept of speed cameras quite interesting, just
because if you know them and you see them and
you're familiar with where they are, you slow down just
to get past them, and then you speed up after it.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
So here's the news. The news is point to point
speed cameras are slowly but surely coming into place, and
they've already been in place in a few places. At
a trial Mattakana, there's one up there, and there's a
whole lot in the Bay of plenty State Highway to
State Highway five. I believe the point they measure the
speed that you're going at one point, well, not the
time you arrive at one point the time you then
(29:38):
arrive at the next point. This is number plate recognition stuff.
And then they look at the time, they average it
out and go, well, for to get from there to there,
he must have been going one hundred and ten k
in comes the fine, all right, so this averages out
the question. The thing is, is that system a lot
fairer than having one camera in a static position capturing
(30:00):
one moment in time.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
I think the main thing is that you to make
these things fear. I think you have to know that
they're there, because there's nothing worse than like you say,
it increases compliance because if you know it's there, then
you slow down to avoid the fine.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
What annoys me is when it becomes an income generating
generating thing, right, which is kind of against the spirit
of it. I reckon. Well, so as long as they
signpost it, because they do in Australia, right, they do
this in Australia, and they put signposts up to say
speed monitoring and then you stick to the speed lines.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Oh look, they do here as well, but don't say
speed cameras. They say safety cameras.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Safety cameras. Very very very good marketing.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
There no I think actually not telling people that they're
there would mean that you'd be more likely to comply, right,
because you're not sure where they are on the road,
so you just have to stick to the speed limit,
whereas if you know exactly where they are, like I'm saying,
you're going around the corner. Oh look, here's the corner
that I always travel around on my Thursday afternoons.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Oh oh, got to go forty here.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
So there was a text I got yesterday though. It
was from a police officer and said, I am a
police officer. I do not like speed cameras. I do
give out speed tickets. I stop people and they learn
and they see a person giving them a ticket and
giving them a little bit of a lecture and explaining
why they're getting the ticket. Also, everyone that passes by
(31:18):
the police officer sees a police officer actively giving out
the speed ticket and they go oho, hey, yeah, you
could actually get pinged on this and it could cost us.
And he believes that having humans only issuing speed tickets
is a better way of policing than having a machine
that snaps a picture then sends you, sends you a
letter or an email. You know, a week after the
(31:41):
event and you can't even remember where you were and
what you were doing.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
You probably needed more cops to do that then though,
you probably need more frontline officers and enable it to
actually for it to be effective. But I can see
his point because then at materialized more.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
If you actually have to interact with the police officer.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
They're nothing like the heart palpitations that you feel when
you're either a cops behind you or you see the lights?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Was that for me but it wasn't for you.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I get them when I see, you know, drink driving stops, Yes,
are you driving up? And I go, oh, it's a
drink driving stop? And then you know hell, and my
partner will go, have you had a drink Today's no?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, it's like I literally had lemonade form freaking out.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I haven't had a drink in two days. No, what
are you worried about it? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
It's a carp Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Good South. It is sixteen to four. This is the
panel with Car McDonald's will mean a shrimped to Mona
Andrew Dickens in for for to Beveridge backing Car McDonald
and will mean a shrimped in my special guests on
the panel, Jeff is a gone dead and bearing Carl.
Are you hat broken?
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Well, yeah, but I definitely I am. But I also
thought when I saw the story, I'm like, okay, she
remember the last time I had of Jeff? I tell
you what to do? Miss snuffers. Oh okay, I missed
the snuff They've been gone for a long There was
just there was. There was the nougat.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Are they like a mint?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, big huke.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It's like peepie chows. Just gross. It's like it's like
chocolate covered toothpaste.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
No, you gross.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Look, I'm sad.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Now that I know that they're going, But I can't
remember the last time that I went to the movies
and thought, oh, grab a pack of Jaffers. But let
me ask you this question, when was the last time
that you actually saw some marketing or pr or anything
around a Jaffer?
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Right?
Speaker 5 (33:19):
And no matter how long standing a legacy brand is,
if you're not doing the right job and advertising it
and putting it in front of people's faces and sending
it out to influences and all that jazz, then no
matter how long it's been around, it of course is
going to drop off people's consciousness because there's so many
different brands out there.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I think Karl actually hit it right away. When was
the last time you bought some Jaffers? And I got
this when the Smith and Coey closure happened in Auckland,
and I wrote an article and about all the different
factors that related to the closure. But at the end
of the day, I said, when was the last time
you went to Smith and Coey's? So you tell me
why you didn't go, and that will be the reason
(33:59):
why it closed, rather than crying crocodile tears for something
that you thought you loved but in fact you never supported.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Also, when was the last time you went to the
supermarket and saw a packet of Jeffers on sale? Because
I can't remember a dairy or a supermarket or even
a movie theater where they were.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
If they were there, maybe I would haven't been in
the boxes for you.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
It was quite like the marketing.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Of the boxing, big big point. I went and looked
to the supermarket. Then they're in plastic bags now, But
the whole thing was the boxes that you could then
shake and rattle and roll and then roll them down
the cinema aisle and then throw them in the air.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
But then where was the marketing campaign for the bags?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Was it that they did the jeff roll down street
the steepest street?
Speaker 4 (34:39):
So many marketing that was fun?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
When when was that years ago? Because when did anyone
buy Jeffers? And it is sad when an icon goes.
But there was a person from marketing who said, you know,
some products just don't last forever.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
You know, nothing lasts last forever.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
That's depressing.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
I know.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Hey, so I want to ask you about Lord, the
New Zealand artist who has an album out called Virgin
that got released a week It's gone to number one
in the United Kingdom, the first time she's ever been there. Congratulations.
She's number one in New Zealand, and she's got the
number one single as well with Hammer, and she's number
one in Australia. This is the fourth time she's been
number one. But I know that whenever I mentioned well
(35:20):
done Lord on this radio station, people go, she can't
sing and she's a bit crazy savage, which I thought
was savage, and I went, yeah, okay, but.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
It's the generational gap speaking.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Is it really you reckon? Oh?
Speaker 4 (35:33):
Look I think so. I mean, you know, people said
the same thing about the Beatles, didn't they in the sixties.
But look, as I said to you before we came
on here, I went to be intermediate school and take
a poona Brama.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
So she's a proud, proud alumni of.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Both of those fine institutions. Look, I think she's great.
I mean I've tended to listen to her albums or
once or twice when they've come out, But I've got
a fourteen year old and eleven year old girl and
they love it. Yeah, she's up there with Taylor.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
But she's been itchy with because she's the marketing for
this has been brilliant. From an event at Washington Square that.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
She see her Toilette take toilet Takeover.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And she was listening party in Sydney, some amazing interviews.
She did her first gig at Glastonbury, you know which
people had to be turned away from her and it's
just and then she released an album it's gone to
number one. But in the course of those interviews she
was actually quite edgy as well. She talked gender issues
and she also talked about how she's got over her
stage fright by doing microdocic of MDMA MDMA therapy. And
(36:29):
I also know that a lot of people listening to
this radio station will go, well, that's freakish, and that's
a bit dangerous, and that's a bit crazy.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
I think that she's using her platform the best way
that she can, you know, And there are a lot
of people and a lot of celebrities and a lot
of pop stars and whatever who would probably talk about
something ridiculously vapid and nothing that had any substance to it.
So I definitely think she deserves some recognition for using
her platform to get across some issues that deserved to
be spoken about.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Love her music.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
I remember listening to Royals for the first time I
must have been about twenty two. Absolutely loved it, and
I remember thinking she's going to be huge. But equally
she is very edgy. I don't know if we if
we met, that would be friends, because I just don't
think that i'd be her vibe.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I've got a text chair saying Lord is creepy and
scary mom. There was an article during the week in
the UK which said Lord is not looking good and
that's purposeful, and everyone attacked the writers saying, well, what
is your definition of looking good? Do you want to
look tramping like Charlie XCX. You wanted to be wearing
(37:30):
what Taylor Swift wears, which is like a bathing suit.
You know, is that looking good? What is looking good?
Whereas you know that she is actually spending quite a
lot of money on her clothes. But there is a
grunge look to it all, Kyle, and this is this
is the this is the whole thing about females in perception.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
I think she's a deeply creative person who's just out
there being herself. I think it's fantastic. I think it's
a shame that we can't get behind her as a
key we like. I mean, look at the look at
the different response to say Liam Lawson, who arguably is
not doing anywhere near as good in Formula one as
she is doing on the music show. So get behind
to keep me doing well. You don't have to listen
to the music to support it.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
I thank you with just seven or four whether me
to Shrimpton and car McDonald. One last question, all backs friends,
who's going to win? I'll tell you the odds. The
tab Reckons, the all backs one dollar and seven cents,
the French seven dollars fifty, So they think it's going
to be a walkover. I'll go for Carfins.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Yeah, despite being a rugby chur check, I never been
on sports because I'm horrible at predicting, But the All
Banks are usually a bit rusty, so I think it'll
be a bit closer, but I think we'll get there
in the end by a decent margin.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
What was it that Scott Robinson was saying, don't underestimate
the French team. We are versing the B team, so
it would be a shock if they didn't win. But
of course, being the patriot that I am, I'm going
to say the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
And I thank you both for your time today, go
out and have a lovely Saturday. We're going to stay
here and keep the program going with the One Roof
Property Show on its way right here on news Stool
to B.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Talk ZEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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