July 13, 2025 • 23 mins
Finding meaning and purpose in life can be a challenge for everyone, so much so that former NZSAS Physical Trainer John Templeton believes we're living in a worldwide pandemic of purposelessness.
John has fought his own battles with depression, and after leaving the SAS he struggled to find purpose in his life. This lead him down a path of psychology and philosophy to find his authentic self, and now he works to help others find meaning in their own lives.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We need to Talk conversations on wellness with coastfm's Tony Street.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello, welcome to we need to talk. It is lovely
to have you with us today. The COVID nineteen pandemic
served as a life changing period for many people. For some,
it meant a forced career change. For many, flexible working
arrangements became the norm because of it. But for others
it left us questioning what our purpose was. Were we
truly happy and living our days how we really wanted to.
(00:28):
John Templeton is a former Essays physical trainer. He has
the Guinness World Record for most ring muscle ups in
twenty four hours, which I'll find out what they are
in a minute. He was Cleo Magazine's Bachelor of the
Year and he's just written a book. He's spoken at
events across the globe alongside renowned self help experts such
as Tony Robbins. John's on a mission to help kiwis
(00:49):
better understand themselves and to find their true purpose. He
believes that we're in a pandemic of purposelessness. Hi, John,
what does that mean? What does a pandemic of purposelessness mean?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, the word pandemic means a broad occurrence, really a
widespread occurrence, and it was quite fitting considering we have
just come out of COVID, but really from my own
experience and then diving into purpose, meaning in life, it
was pretty evident that there's a large population of people,
not just in New Zealand, I mean globally that missing purpose.
(01:24):
Let's dive deeper. What's purpose meaning feeling like they can
add value to society in some way? And it's a pandemic.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
How do you know that this is happening? What have
you seen that makes you think this is the case.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
From my own pain, I explored purpose. That's where it
all began. And when I started researching it because I
felt a little bit alone. I'd sort of lost my
identity through the process, didn't know how I could add
value to society. And a lot of soldiers go through
this when they leave the military as well. And I
just researched. I researched were other people feeling this way?
How common is it? And I found that I thought
(02:00):
it was going to be more people my age as well,
a little bit older sort of midlife crisis loss of identity,
but also in the youth, the youth missing a sense
of identity, a sense of worth, a sense of adding value,
feeling like they can't really make an impact on the
causes that they want to make an impact for. So
it was really research that brought it to light in
(02:22):
my eyes and in my mind.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, what do you think it is in our modern
world that has led to this versus perhaps what it
was like, you know when our parents were young and
did have purpose.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I think everyone knows. What do you think, Well, I
assume it's devices. Yeah, that's a big part of it,
but it goes beyond that. So if we look at
go back thousands of years to survive, nobody was everybody
was busy. It's like everybody had a role, whether that
was in the tribe or the family unit. Everybody had
the role that they played. As time's gone on, we've
(02:53):
invented things to make our lives more comfortable, more easy.
There are social systems in place that look after people.
Times are tough, and you know, those things can be great,
but they can also lead to people becoming complacent or lazy.
And we have technology AI taking away jobs. So it's
this combination of advancement in technology and let's say systems
(03:18):
in place to make life easier because as we take
away challenge, we also take away meaning. Those two things
go hand in hand. So we need challenge to have meaning.
But a lot of people want comfort, and with comfort
comes no meaning.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
It's really interesting. It's a concept that I feel like
I see in young people. So I've got three kids twelve,
nine and six, and they play a lot of sport.
And you will often hear me saying I'm glad they've
got their sport. It gives them a purpose, it gives
them something to work towards, It gives them friends, it
gives them community because we often all come together and
(03:53):
I kind of feel like if I pulled that away,
what would they be doing? Right? And it's that same
kind of concept, isn't it. You have to people have
to be passionate about something in their lives because if
they're not, what are you waking up for every day?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
That's exactly it. And I think as well, I mean,
you nail it and you take that across sport is great,
but not everyone can be an athlete, no, and so
maybe this is few as well. What happens after the
athletics stop, yep, and it does come down to competition
is great. Take competition too far, it can become destructive.
But competition is great for giving people meaning because there's
(04:28):
literally a challenge in sport to win a game that
they're facing. What I found with myself, I was an
athlete for a long time finishing that same thing occurred.
So I've had I've seen this pattern play out in
my own life. Whenever we lose challenge in our life,
we lose meaning. Too much challenge is stress and we
burn out and we you know, die that way. Too
(04:49):
little challenge and we become bored and we die that way.
So it's really about finding that fine line between challenge
and support. And I'm interested to see how, Yeah, as
a you faced it as well with your children once
they finished sport, where are they going to find meaning?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Then?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And you see that with a lot of top athletes.
I mean you see it here in New Zealand with
some of the top all blacks that they struggle for
quite a few years to find out what is next
and what's the point. So you had some dark times
yourself that kind of you experienced that, you know what
this is like? Can you explain them what happened?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, I would say I've been through three really dark
periods and I never got to the root cause that's
why they always kept haunting me. The first was in
the military, so I'd been quite successful growing up as
an athlete.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
What sort of sport did you play?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I played footballers in soccer. I was born in England,
so I was really talented and I played high level
New Zealand. I made the New Zealand Academy in ninety
nine and two thousand yep. Then that was through my teens.
Drugs and alcohol came along. That sort of wiped that.
I went into the military. The military saved me in
many ways, and through the military, I was given a
platform to succeed. It was like, if you can run
(05:59):
this far, you get this ranking, and so as a
masculine man, I was just driven to succeed. I got
what's called the one hundred club in the military. It's
one hundred percent score on the fitness test. I topped
a lot of my courses. I went through the physical
training instructor course. I topped that course. I was posted
to the Special Forces camp. I was a trainer there,
(06:19):
but I failed Special Forces selection to actually be in
the Special Forces, and that really dented my confidence. My
ego and that threw me into my first bout of depression.
I didn't know what it was at the time. I
was just for about a year, I was.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Off, why do you think you failed it?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I was too immature. I wanted the glory. I want
it was pride, you know, I wanted the success, but
I didn't have the depth in my being, in the
core of my soul. So I was just a child still.
So that's that's why. Yeah, it's a grueling process, and
you know, the pass rate is around ten percent, so
I just wasn't ready for it. Yeah, physical training instructor selection.
(07:04):
I did pass. That actually came second and that really
helped me regain my confidence again. But that was my
first one, and then I went into many years later.
I was doing quite well investing in real estate. I
was doing well, and then I went into a relationship again.
I just didn't have the skill set required to handle
the relationship. Lost my money, my house, everything, and that
that was the big one that broke me. And for
(07:27):
about seven years, that was the on and off depression,
crying almost daily like it was really I didn't want
to live, you know, for a lot of the time,
and that was the one I sought help, couldn't get it,
couldn't shake this heavy, dark feeling. I ended up in hospital.
So it was really bad. I was in hospital for
about a month, blood test, stool samples, everything. Nobody could
(07:52):
come to a solution.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
What were your symptoms?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Oh, I was ghost white, Yeah, hail white. I had
lost a lot of weight. I had warts growing all
over my body. I couldn't even hold water down. For
the last four weeks when I was in hospital, I
was just vomiting. If I had water, I would vomit,
and they just sent me home with painkillers.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I know that experience. I had a similar thing before
I was diagnosed with my autoimmune I know what it's
like to be just sent back undiagnosed, like good luck.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I mean, I'm assuming yours was stressed. There was a
heavy load of stress you were under.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I mean, I still haven't really got to the bottom
of why my immune system flipped the way it did,
but I do think I was overworked and burnt out
at the time, and I think that was a massive contributor.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
You're listening to we need to talk with Tony Street.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
So did you get to the bottom of what was wrong?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
With you.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yes, And this is a big part of my work
that I do with people now, help them get to
the bottom, because until we get to the bottom, it
could be quite hard to find to make changes so
we don't experience it again. So I actually saw a
nature path and she said, well, you just seem stressed,
and I just started crying. And so essentially that was it.
It was immnse stress from that relationship. I ended the relationship.
Within about two weeks, my skin color came back, just
(09:09):
my whole soul just came back to life, you know.
So that was that time. And then COVID wiped my
business out and I lost hundreds of thousands through that,
and that that's kind of when I got serious about
maybe ending my life because I just had too many
losses to want to keep going. You know, it really
broke me, but it's also what pushed me to find answers.
(09:31):
And so I'm so grateful for all of it because
that is what drove me to go. I want to
understand psychology. I want to understand what drives people. I
want to understand how people's pasts affect them. I want
to master psychodynamics within a relationship. I want to master
at all so that I don't have to feel the
pain again, and from there I can help others.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And so what did you do at that point to
understand it all?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
I read books, a lot of books, and I haven't stopped.
I mean a book a week easily, and it it
was all context. It was spirituality. I wanted to understand life,
and I asked the deep questions, what's the meaning of life?
Like why we even here as humans? What are we doing?
Where are we going? Where have we come from? Who
am I? Who are you? What are our relationships for?
(10:13):
And I just read. I've just I can't put any
other way. I've read and researched. I one of my mentors,
doctor John de Martini, he runs an institute called the
De Martini Institute. I spent a lot of money learning
from him.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
And when you finished all of that, what were the takeaways?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I haven't finished. It'll never stop, okay, I'm always learning.
The biggest thing is we're in control of our mind
at all times, our psychology and whether it is depression,
whether it is anger, frustration, all of it is within us.
We hold the power for all of it. Our purpose.
(10:48):
Coming back to purpose and meaning, it all sits within us,
and what got me through was actually meditation, learning to
meditate and learning to find my center so that no
matter what was happening. If I was making money, I
could stay composed. If I was losing money, I could
stay resilient. It was really about what is the most
optimal way to find my center? Because if I'm centered,
(11:08):
I'm grounded, I'm healthy. You know, stress is really just
our perceptions of what's happening around us, and so if
we can master our perceptions, we can master our stress.
Therefore we can be healthy. So sitting at the core
of health, sitting at the core of a happy relationship,
sitting at the core of a successful entrepreneur or investor
is someone who is centered. They're centered, they're grounded, they
(11:30):
know who they are, they know where they're going in life.
And with that clarity comes power. You can make decisions,
you can get rid of toxic people in your life
that are going to cause you some kind of stress,
and you can bring in people that are similar values
that support your mission. You know, So it really is
about understanding your psychology, staying centered no matter what's going
on externally.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
So just going back to what we talked about at
the beginning, the sense of purpose slessness with the current
environment we have because those traditional roles and challenges are
necessarily there anymore. How do you fix that side of
things For the majority of people that might find themselves.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Not needed, everyone is needed, whether that's to their son
or their daughter, or to their parents. If we can
contribute to something other than ourselves, we're going to find meaning.
For some people that might be I don't want to
use the word small, but straightforward, like a father or
a mother, or a daughter or a son. If we
can contribute, we're going to find meaning in purpose. It
(12:27):
doesn't have to be grandiose, but for other people it
will be grandiose. If you know, I want to make
quite a big impact, and so it's going to be
it's going to appear more grandiose. But at the end
of the day, it's what's a problem that you want
to solve? And if your son or daughter has a problem,
you know, I have a family member very close to me.
Let's just say it. My sister and her kids are
missing a bit of direction in their lives. And I
(12:48):
said to my sister over the Christmas holiday, I was like, well,
what do you want in your life? You know, where
are you hitting? And she said, I just want to
be a great mother And I said, well that's your purpose.
I was like, master it, read books, study it, learn
different perspectives on parenting, and find a pathway that works
for you. And then one you can give that to
(13:09):
your kids, but you can also share that with other mothers.
And that's really where purpose lies. Find a problem that
you're inspired to solve, smaller, big, just start there.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
To do that, you have to be intentional, right, so
you actually have to decide this is my purpose? And
do you think people are unnecessarily aware of their purpose?
Is what I'm saying? Or are they just drifting through
day to day going I'm just getting through the day.
I'm going to work. You know, I might have a
bit of a sleeping on the weekends, but still not
really know what their purpose is.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
One hundred percent they'll be unconscious to it. And Abraham
Maslow's a psychologist. He's got a hierarchy of needs. I
don't know if you've heard of I have heard of
that vararchy of needs. If you look at a hierarchy
of needs at the base, you've got essentially physical survival
and then it moves up through security, safety, stability in life.
At the top of the pyramid is what you would
call self actually, which is someone living their highest ideal,
(14:03):
which is where purpose lies to get to that level. Yeah,
it's if you're stuck at the bottom just surviving, it's
going to be very hard to be at your best.
But the pathway to get there is your purpose. So
if you're not there yet, it's not like you're you're
always on your purpose, you just don't know it. And
so if someone is, yeah, living day to day and
(14:25):
there are stresses or i want to say lower lower
levels on the hierarchy, they're going to steal your energy.
They're going to steal your resources, your time, your money,
your energy. This is what brings me to life is
will use your life that you have now intentionally to
climb that hierarchy. Use it to start mastering your psychology,
(14:46):
your financial situation, so that those problems that you used
to face three years ago you don't face them. You're
going to have new problems. Problems just keep coming our
whole life. But it's the quality of problem we face.
Do we want to be just dealing with the day
to day stuff all the time, or do we want
to climb that hierarchy and deal with more inspiring problems
that we really would love to spend our time doing.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, I find your situation interesting because you know, when
you think of people that don't have purpose, you don't
automatically think of a guy that was great at sport
at school that was kind of ticking all these boxes.
I don't know what your family background is, but you
look like you've got yourself together and yet you still struggled.
So this isn't necessarily a problem that is just for
(15:27):
people that you know, might not have the ideal home
life or they were uninspired at school. This can happen
to high achievers too.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I would say, like you said at the start of
this interview podcast athletes, because there's two ways to nihilism,
there's two ways to despair. One is the I call
it the route of inferiority. It's where you're not really
living the life you want to live. You don't feel
like you're adding value, You've got low self esteem, and
that can be well, what's the point in you know,
(15:55):
living I don't know what my purpose is. But then
there's the that's the inferiority complex. Then you can go
the other way, which is the superiority complex, and that
is I'm super successful, I've done these things, but there's
never enough validation. There's always more money, you know, for
the businessman that has it all, all the money, but
he's still unhappy. So that's the superior path nihilism, and
(16:16):
then you've got the inferior path, the nihilism both. Eventually,
it doesn't matter which end someone hits. Eventually, the only
way out of that trap is to contribute to others.
That's the only way out is to serve something greater
than yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Do you think that's what was missing for you?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I know it was Even when I had my business
was doing really well, I was making great money, and
I had quote unquote fame and notoriety. My identity and
ego was attached to that. So as soon as there
was criticism or judgment, it just dented me. And then
when COVID came and wiped out my financial position, my
identity went down with it. And that's when I just
(16:53):
sat and spent a lot of time meditating and contemplating,
going Okay, well, that path lead to pain, and I
was like, I know, the other path leads to pay
as well. So what's the answer, and it is You
might even say you'd find this in some religious texts
as well. It's about having being more selfless, But some
people will take that out of context because you can
(17:13):
be too self selfless and talked over, yeah, sacrifice yourself
people pleasing these patterns. So it's not about It's about
that balance of what do I love doing and how
can I help people doing that? And when you get
that balance, that's the way out of the dichotomy of
the superior pathway to despair and the inferior pathway to despair.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Now that do we need to talk with Tony Street?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
How do we teach our young people to avoid going
down the same path? You know, you look at kids
at high school. How can we sort of school them
up so that they can have purpose and they know
this earlier than what you did, so you can avoid
the drama.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
I'm not sure if we can. I think we have
to experience to.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Know.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You know, sometimes the hard way is the easy way.
If everything was just told to you, I'm sure you
tell your kids not to do things and they do them,
and then when they hurt themselves, maybe then they learn
that that's not the right way. So I think that
I think it's built into humanity and it's built into evolution,
is that we learn through pain. One thing I do
know is the more empowered you are, the more empowered
(18:25):
your kids are going to be. The more empowered I become,
the more empowered our kids will become. So it is
it's about empowering yourself. So if there's someone listening to
this and yourself, I would say, empower yourself because that
will be reflected in your offspring. And if you're a teacher, again,
the more empowered you become as a teacher. You know,
I had a really great teacher at school, mister Newbert.
(18:46):
If you're listening to this, you really affected me in
a great way. He was just a great guy. He
was just a great guy. He wasn't too authoritarian authoritarian,
but he told me off and I cried in class
because of him. But I think the more empowered each
individual person becomes, the more empowered the tribe becomes, the
more empowered the nation becomes, more empowered, the world becomes.
(19:07):
But it starts with us. So I would say, yeah,
empower yourself. Learn as much as you can.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So I'm interested those times where those three times where
you you know, were in a really dark place, where
was your family and friends and all of that.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
I mean, they were there, but I was too proud
to ask for help. And that happens with the superiority complex,
you know, the victim mentality is that inferior path. But
I was on the superior path, and I was just
too too proud. And I think a lot of men
specifically are probably too proud to admit what they're going through.
So that was the first time. You know, mums have
an intuition, so she probably knew. In fact, I know
(19:42):
she did because she would reach out, but I would
sort of say I was okay. The last time is
when I came clean and I surrendered and just said
I don't have the answers. I don't have the answers,
And yeah, I reached out to my family and they
were there. They were there for me the whole ti.
I just had too much pride to it to really
(20:02):
accept help earlier on.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So what would your message be then for others that
have to probably experience a bit of pain. But maybe
if like if you'd had this knowledge prior, it possibly
would have made it slightly easier to deal with than
maybe you wouldn't have been in such despair.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Maybe, yeah, one hundred percent. I would definitely say the
sooner you can admit it. So I didn't want to
say I was depressed. I was like, I'm not depressed.
I'm a god. I don't get depressed. As soon as
I admitted it, that was the first thing that was fantastic.
But I also didn't want to become a victim to it.
And a lot of people messaged me once I said
(20:39):
it publicly. A lot of people said to me, oh,
you know you're going to be You've got depression for
life now and all of these things, and I just
refuse to believe that. So I first thing was admitting
it was it was like a whole weight was lifted.
I didn't have to be perfect anymore. I didn't have
to put on a front. I could just be myself.
So that was the first thing. So I highly recommend
that to anyone, even people with addictions, anything that you
(21:00):
have shame around. Shame is the one thing that crushes people.
And if we can get beyond our shame, we set
ourselves free to be more authentic. So that's the first thing.
Just admit it. And then I would say absolutely ask
for help, but be discerning because I asked for help
from certain people and they gave me their opinion, which
wasn't best for me. And so I would say, get
(21:22):
multiple perspectives, so be open. I'm feeling like shit, my
life sucks. I want some help, right, That's a great
place to start. And then search for help, but get
multiple perspectives. The more perspectives you can get, the more
truthful the diagnosis is going to be. Or pathway forward
and read. But yes, I would absolutely say to people,
(21:45):
speak up, speak up. Some people will understand you, some
people won't. Again, just be discerning. If you just continue
to seek improvement, you really can't go wrong. I'd say,
that's the key thing. Ask for help and just continue
to seek improvement.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
So where is your life now? You know you've had
all these ups and downs, you've worked out what your
purpose is. How does your daily life look?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
The first thing is I'm way more grateful. I am
way more grateful and I know who I am, so
that if I was to lose everything, I would be
okay with that. If I was to end up somewhere
where I never imagined that's just part of life. I'd
be okay with it, So that gives me immense appreciation
just to be alive. And now on top of that
platform is the planning phase. I've written my book that's
(22:29):
going to go. I don't know when it will publish,
whether it's this year, next year. I've got to find
a publisher, if you know anyone, so do that. And
then I want to run some events, either online or
in person, and just start connecting with people, connecting with people,
sharing my message and the tools and the system for
helping others. And I know that through that, however big
(22:51):
or small it happens to be, I'm just going to
make an impact. Whether it's one person or a million people,
I just am going to start sharing. Social media is
a good way to do that. The book appearances like this,
which I'm grateful for to help get the message out there.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Oh well, I've really enjoyed listening to your story, John,
and I think it makes a lot of sense and
I'm sure you will help a lot of people with
this message. So thank you for sharing something that's really
vulnerable as well, particularly from a male, because I feel
like males aren't particularly great at sharing so well done.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
We need to talk with Coast FMS Tony Street.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
If you enjoyed the podcast, click to share with family
or friends. To get in touch, email we need to
talk at gastonline, dot co dot nz
We need to Talk conversations on wellness with coastfm's Tony Street.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello, welcome to we need to talk. It is lovely
to have you with us today. The COVID nineteen pandemic
served as a life changing period for many people. For some,
it meant a forced career change. For many, flexible working
arrangements became the norm because of it. But for others
it left us questioning what our purpose was. Were we
truly happy and living our days how we really wanted to.
(00:28):
John Templeton is a former Essays physical trainer. He has
the Guinness World Record for most ring muscle ups in
twenty four hours, which I'll find out what they are
in a minute. He was Cleo Magazine's Bachelor of the
Year and he's just written a book. He's spoken at
events across the globe alongside renowned self help experts such
as Tony Robbins. John's on a mission to help kiwis
(00:49):
better understand themselves and to find their true purpose. He
believes that we're in a pandemic of purposelessness. Hi, John,
what does that mean? What does a pandemic of purposelessness mean?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, the word pandemic means a broad occurrence, really a
widespread occurrence, and it was quite fitting considering we have
just come out of COVID, but really from my own
experience and then diving into purpose, meaning in life, it
was pretty evident that there's a large population of people,
not just in New Zealand, I mean globally that missing purpose.
(01:24):
Let's dive deeper. What's purpose meaning feeling like they can
add value to society in some way? And it's a pandemic.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
How do you know that this is happening? What have
you seen that makes you think this is the case.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
From my own pain, I explored purpose. That's where it
all began. And when I started researching it because I
felt a little bit alone. I'd sort of lost my
identity through the process, didn't know how I could add
value to society. And a lot of soldiers go through
this when they leave the military as well. And I
just researched. I researched were other people feeling this way?
How common is it? And I found that I thought
(02:00):
it was going to be more people my age as well,
a little bit older sort of midlife crisis loss of identity,
but also in the youth, the youth missing a sense
of identity, a sense of worth, a sense of adding value,
feeling like they can't really make an impact on the
causes that they want to make an impact for. So
it was really research that brought it to light in
(02:22):
my eyes and in my mind.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, what do you think it is in our modern
world that has led to this versus perhaps what it
was like, you know when our parents were young and
did have purpose.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I think everyone knows. What do you think, Well, I
assume it's devices. Yeah, that's a big part of it,
but it goes beyond that. So if we look at
go back thousands of years to survive, nobody was everybody
was busy. It's like everybody had a role, whether that
was in the tribe or the family unit. Everybody had
the role that they played. As time's gone on, we've
(02:53):
invented things to make our lives more comfortable, more easy.
There are social systems in place that look after people.
Times are tough, and you know, those things can be great,
but they can also lead to people becoming complacent or lazy.
And we have technology AI taking away jobs. So it's
this combination of advancement in technology and let's say systems
(03:18):
in place to make life easier because as we take
away challenge, we also take away meaning. Those two things
go hand in hand. So we need challenge to have meaning.
But a lot of people want comfort, and with comfort
comes no meaning.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
It's really interesting. It's a concept that I feel like
I see in young people. So I've got three kids twelve,
nine and six, and they play a lot of sport.
And you will often hear me saying I'm glad they've
got their sport. It gives them a purpose, it gives
them something to work towards, It gives them friends, it
gives them community because we often all come together and
(03:53):
I kind of feel like if I pulled that away,
what would they be doing? Right? And it's that same
kind of concept, isn't it. You have to people have
to be passionate about something in their lives because if
they're not, what are you waking up for every day?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
That's exactly it. And I think as well, I mean,
you nail it and you take that across sport is great,
but not everyone can be an athlete, no, and so
maybe this is few as well. What happens after the
athletics stop, yep, and it does come down to competition
is great. Take competition too far, it can become destructive.
But competition is great for giving people meaning because there's
(04:28):
literally a challenge in sport to win a game that
they're facing. What I found with myself, I was an
athlete for a long time finishing that same thing occurred.
So I've had I've seen this pattern play out in
my own life. Whenever we lose challenge in our life,
we lose meaning. Too much challenge is stress and we
burn out and we you know, die that way. Too
(04:49):
little challenge and we become bored and we die that way.
So it's really about finding that fine line between challenge
and support. And I'm interested to see how, Yeah, as
a you faced it as well with your children once
they finished sport, where are they going to find meaning?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Then?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And you see that with a lot of top athletes.
I mean you see it here in New Zealand with
some of the top all blacks that they struggle for
quite a few years to find out what is next
and what's the point. So you had some dark times
yourself that kind of you experienced that, you know what
this is like? Can you explain them what happened?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, I would say I've been through three really dark
periods and I never got to the root cause that's
why they always kept haunting me. The first was in
the military, so I'd been quite successful growing up as
an athlete.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
What sort of sport did you play?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I played footballers in soccer. I was born in England,
so I was really talented and I played high level
New Zealand. I made the New Zealand Academy in ninety
nine and two thousand yep. Then that was through my teens.
Drugs and alcohol came along. That sort of wiped that.
I went into the military. The military saved me in
many ways, and through the military, I was given a
platform to succeed. It was like, if you can run
(05:59):
this far, you get this ranking, and so as a
masculine man, I was just driven to succeed. I got
what's called the one hundred club in the military. It's
one hundred percent score on the fitness test. I topped
a lot of my courses. I went through the physical
training instructor course. I topped that course. I was posted
to the Special Forces camp. I was a trainer there,
(06:19):
but I failed Special Forces selection to actually be in
the Special Forces, and that really dented my confidence. My
ego and that threw me into my first bout of depression.
I didn't know what it was at the time. I
was just for about a year, I was.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Off, why do you think you failed it?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I was too immature. I wanted the glory. I want
it was pride, you know, I wanted the success, but
I didn't have the depth in my being, in the
core of my soul. So I was just a child still.
So that's that's why. Yeah, it's a grueling process, and
you know, the pass rate is around ten percent, so
I just wasn't ready for it. Yeah, physical training instructor selection.
(07:04):
I did pass. That actually came second and that really
helped me regain my confidence again. But that was my
first one, and then I went into many years later.
I was doing quite well investing in real estate. I
was doing well, and then I went into a relationship again.
I just didn't have the skill set required to handle
the relationship. Lost my money, my house, everything, and that
that was the big one that broke me. And for
(07:27):
about seven years, that was the on and off depression,
crying almost daily like it was really I didn't want
to live, you know, for a lot of the time,
and that was the one I sought help, couldn't get it,
couldn't shake this heavy, dark feeling. I ended up in hospital.
So it was really bad. I was in hospital for
about a month, blood test, stool samples, everything. Nobody could
(07:52):
come to a solution.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
What were your symptoms?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Oh, I was ghost white, Yeah, hail white. I had
lost a lot of weight. I had warts growing all
over my body. I couldn't even hold water down. For
the last four weeks when I was in hospital, I
was just vomiting. If I had water, I would vomit,
and they just sent me home with painkillers.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I know that experience. I had a similar thing before
I was diagnosed with my autoimmune I know what it's
like to be just sent back undiagnosed, like good luck.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I mean, I'm assuming yours was stressed. There was a
heavy load of stress you were under.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I mean, I still haven't really got to the bottom
of why my immune system flipped the way it did,
but I do think I was overworked and burnt out
at the time, and I think that was a massive contributor.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
You're listening to we need to talk with Tony Street.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
So did you get to the bottom of what was wrong?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
With you.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yes, And this is a big part of my work
that I do with people now, help them get to
the bottom, because until we get to the bottom, it
could be quite hard to find to make changes so
we don't experience it again. So I actually saw a
nature path and she said, well, you just seem stressed,
and I just started crying. And so essentially that was it.
It was immnse stress from that relationship. I ended the relationship.
Within about two weeks, my skin color came back, just
(09:09):
my whole soul just came back to life, you know.
So that was that time. And then COVID wiped my
business out and I lost hundreds of thousands through that,
and that that's kind of when I got serious about
maybe ending my life because I just had too many
losses to want to keep going. You know, it really
broke me, but it's also what pushed me to find answers.
(09:31):
And so I'm so grateful for all of it because
that is what drove me to go. I want to
understand psychology. I want to understand what drives people. I
want to understand how people's pasts affect them. I want
to master psychodynamics within a relationship. I want to master
at all so that I don't have to feel the
pain again, and from there I can help others.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And so what did you do at that point to
understand it all?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
I read books, a lot of books, and I haven't stopped.
I mean a book a week easily, and it it
was all context. It was spirituality. I wanted to understand life,
and I asked the deep questions, what's the meaning of life?
Like why we even here as humans? What are we doing?
Where are we going? Where have we come from? Who
am I? Who are you? What are our relationships for?
(10:13):
And I just read. I've just I can't put any
other way. I've read and researched. I one of my mentors,
doctor John de Martini, he runs an institute called the
De Martini Institute. I spent a lot of money learning
from him.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
And when you finished all of that, what were the takeaways?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I haven't finished. It'll never stop, okay, I'm always learning.
The biggest thing is we're in control of our mind
at all times, our psychology and whether it is depression,
whether it is anger, frustration, all of it is within us.
We hold the power for all of it. Our purpose.
(10:48):
Coming back to purpose and meaning, it all sits within us,
and what got me through was actually meditation, learning to
meditate and learning to find my center so that no
matter what was happening. If I was making money, I
could stay composed. If I was losing money, I could
stay resilient. It was really about what is the most
optimal way to find my center? Because if I'm centered,
(11:08):
I'm grounded, I'm healthy. You know, stress is really just
our perceptions of what's happening around us, and so if
we can master our perceptions, we can master our stress.
Therefore we can be healthy. So sitting at the core
of health, sitting at the core of a happy relationship,
sitting at the core of a successful entrepreneur or investor
is someone who is centered. They're centered, they're grounded, they
(11:30):
know who they are, they know where they're going in life.
And with that clarity comes power. You can make decisions,
you can get rid of toxic people in your life
that are going to cause you some kind of stress,
and you can bring in people that are similar values
that support your mission. You know, So it really is
about understanding your psychology, staying centered no matter what's going
on externally.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
So just going back to what we talked about at
the beginning, the sense of purpose slessness with the current
environment we have because those traditional roles and challenges are
necessarily there anymore. How do you fix that side of
things For the majority of people that might find themselves.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Not needed, everyone is needed, whether that's to their son
or their daughter, or to their parents. If we can
contribute to something other than ourselves, we're going to find meaning.
For some people that might be I don't want to
use the word small, but straightforward, like a father or
a mother, or a daughter or a son. If we
can contribute, we're going to find meaning in purpose. It
(12:27):
doesn't have to be grandiose, but for other people it
will be grandiose. If you know, I want to make
quite a big impact, and so it's going to be
it's going to appear more grandiose. But at the end
of the day, it's what's a problem that you want
to solve? And if your son or daughter has a problem,
you know, I have a family member very close to me.
Let's just say it. My sister and her kids are
missing a bit of direction in their lives. And I
(12:48):
said to my sister over the Christmas holiday, I was like, well,
what do you want in your life? You know, where
are you hitting? And she said, I just want to
be a great mother And I said, well that's your purpose.
I was like, master it, read books, study it, learn
different perspectives on parenting, and find a pathway that works
for you. And then one you can give that to
(13:09):
your kids, but you can also share that with other mothers.
And that's really where purpose lies. Find a problem that
you're inspired to solve, smaller, big, just start there.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
To do that, you have to be intentional, right, so
you actually have to decide this is my purpose? And
do you think people are unnecessarily aware of their purpose?
Is what I'm saying? Or are they just drifting through
day to day going I'm just getting through the day.
I'm going to work. You know, I might have a
bit of a sleeping on the weekends, but still not
really know what their purpose is.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
One hundred percent they'll be unconscious to it. And Abraham
Maslow's a psychologist. He's got a hierarchy of needs. I
don't know if you've heard of I have heard of
that vararchy of needs. If you look at a hierarchy
of needs at the base, you've got essentially physical survival
and then it moves up through security, safety, stability in life.
At the top of the pyramid is what you would
call self actually, which is someone living their highest ideal,
(14:03):
which is where purpose lies to get to that level. Yeah,
it's if you're stuck at the bottom just surviving, it's
going to be very hard to be at your best.
But the pathway to get there is your purpose. So
if you're not there yet, it's not like you're you're
always on your purpose, you just don't know it. And
so if someone is, yeah, living day to day and
(14:25):
there are stresses or i want to say lower lower
levels on the hierarchy, they're going to steal your energy.
They're going to steal your resources, your time, your money,
your energy. This is what brings me to life is
will use your life that you have now intentionally to
climb that hierarchy. Use it to start mastering your psychology,
(14:46):
your financial situation, so that those problems that you used
to face three years ago you don't face them. You're
going to have new problems. Problems just keep coming our
whole life. But it's the quality of problem we face.
Do we want to be just dealing with the day
to day stuff all the time, or do we want
to climb that hierarchy and deal with more inspiring problems
that we really would love to spend our time doing.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, I find your situation interesting because you know, when
you think of people that don't have purpose, you don't
automatically think of a guy that was great at sport
at school that was kind of ticking all these boxes.
I don't know what your family background is, but you
look like you've got yourself together and yet you still struggled.
So this isn't necessarily a problem that is just for
(15:27):
people that you know, might not have the ideal home
life or they were uninspired at school. This can happen
to high achievers too.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I would say, like you said at the start of
this interview podcast athletes, because there's two ways to nihilism,
there's two ways to despair. One is the I call
it the route of inferiority. It's where you're not really
living the life you want to live. You don't feel
like you're adding value, You've got low self esteem, and
that can be well, what's the point in you know,
(15:55):
living I don't know what my purpose is. But then
there's the that's the inferiority complex. Then you can go
the other way, which is the superiority complex, and that
is I'm super successful, I've done these things, but there's
never enough validation. There's always more money, you know, for
the businessman that has it all, all the money, but
he's still unhappy. So that's the superior path nihilism, and
(16:16):
then you've got the inferior path, the nihilism both. Eventually,
it doesn't matter which end someone hits. Eventually, the only
way out of that trap is to contribute to others.
That's the only way out is to serve something greater
than yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Do you think that's what was missing for you?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I know it was Even when I had my business
was doing really well, I was making great money, and
I had quote unquote fame and notoriety. My identity and
ego was attached to that. So as soon as there
was criticism or judgment, it just dented me. And then
when COVID came and wiped out my financial position, my
identity went down with it. And that's when I just
(16:53):
sat and spent a lot of time meditating and contemplating,
going Okay, well, that path lead to pain, and I
was like, I know, the other path leads to pay
as well. So what's the answer, and it is You
might even say you'd find this in some religious texts
as well. It's about having being more selfless, But some
people will take that out of context because you can
(17:13):
be too self selfless and talked over, yeah, sacrifice yourself
people pleasing these patterns. So it's not about It's about
that balance of what do I love doing and how
can I help people doing that? And when you get
that balance, that's the way out of the dichotomy of
the superior pathway to despair and the inferior pathway to despair.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Now that do we need to talk with Tony Street?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
How do we teach our young people to avoid going
down the same path? You know, you look at kids
at high school. How can we sort of school them
up so that they can have purpose and they know
this earlier than what you did, so you can avoid
the drama.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
I'm not sure if we can. I think we have
to experience to.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Know.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You know, sometimes the hard way is the easy way.
If everything was just told to you, I'm sure you
tell your kids not to do things and they do them,
and then when they hurt themselves, maybe then they learn
that that's not the right way. So I think that
I think it's built into humanity and it's built into evolution,
is that we learn through pain. One thing I do
know is the more empowered you are, the more empowered
(18:25):
your kids are going to be. The more empowered I become,
the more empowered our kids will become. So it is
it's about empowering yourself. So if there's someone listening to
this and yourself, I would say, empower yourself because that
will be reflected in your offspring. And if you're a teacher, again,
the more empowered you become as a teacher. You know,
I had a really great teacher at school, mister Newbert.
(18:46):
If you're listening to this, you really affected me in
a great way. He was just a great guy. He
was just a great guy. He wasn't too authoritarian authoritarian,
but he told me off and I cried in class
because of him. But I think the more empowered each
individual person becomes, the more empowered the tribe becomes, the
more empowered the nation becomes, more empowered, the world becomes.
(19:07):
But it starts with us. So I would say, yeah,
empower yourself. Learn as much as you can.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So I'm interested those times where those three times where
you you know, were in a really dark place, where
was your family and friends and all of that.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
I mean, they were there, but I was too proud
to ask for help. And that happens with the superiority complex,
you know, the victim mentality is that inferior path. But
I was on the superior path, and I was just
too too proud. And I think a lot of men
specifically are probably too proud to admit what they're going through.
So that was the first time. You know, mums have
an intuition, so she probably knew. In fact, I know
(19:42):
she did because she would reach out, but I would
sort of say I was okay. The last time is
when I came clean and I surrendered and just said
I don't have the answers. I don't have the answers,
And yeah, I reached out to my family and they
were there. They were there for me the whole ti.
I just had too much pride to it to really
(20:02):
accept help earlier on.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So what would your message be then for others that
have to probably experience a bit of pain. But maybe
if like if you'd had this knowledge prior, it possibly
would have made it slightly easier to deal with than
maybe you wouldn't have been in such despair.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Maybe, yeah, one hundred percent. I would definitely say the
sooner you can admit it. So I didn't want to
say I was depressed. I was like, I'm not depressed.
I'm a god. I don't get depressed. As soon as
I admitted it, that was the first thing that was fantastic.
But I also didn't want to become a victim to it.
And a lot of people messaged me once I said
(20:39):
it publicly. A lot of people said to me, oh,
you know you're going to be You've got depression for
life now and all of these things, and I just
refuse to believe that. So I first thing was admitting
it was it was like a whole weight was lifted.
I didn't have to be perfect anymore. I didn't have
to put on a front. I could just be myself.
So that was the first thing. So I highly recommend
that to anyone, even people with addictions, anything that you
(21:00):
have shame around. Shame is the one thing that crushes people.
And if we can get beyond our shame, we set
ourselves free to be more authentic. So that's the first thing.
Just admit it. And then I would say absolutely ask
for help, but be discerning because I asked for help
from certain people and they gave me their opinion, which
wasn't best for me. And so I would say, get
(21:22):
multiple perspectives, so be open. I'm feeling like shit, my
life sucks. I want some help, right, That's a great
place to start. And then search for help, but get
multiple perspectives. The more perspectives you can get, the more
truthful the diagnosis is going to be. Or pathway forward
and read. But yes, I would absolutely say to people,
(21:45):
speak up, speak up. Some people will understand you, some
people won't. Again, just be discerning. If you just continue
to seek improvement, you really can't go wrong. I'd say,
that's the key thing. Ask for help and just continue
to seek improvement.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
So where is your life now? You know you've had
all these ups and downs, you've worked out what your
purpose is. How does your daily life look?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
The first thing is I'm way more grateful. I am
way more grateful and I know who I am, so
that if I was to lose everything, I would be
okay with that. If I was to end up somewhere
where I never imagined that's just part of life. I'd
be okay with it, So that gives me immense appreciation
just to be alive. And now on top of that
platform is the planning phase. I've written my book that's
(22:29):
going to go. I don't know when it will publish,
whether it's this year, next year. I've got to find
a publisher, if you know anyone, so do that. And
then I want to run some events, either online or
in person, and just start connecting with people, connecting with people,
sharing my message and the tools and the system for
helping others. And I know that through that, however big
(22:51):
or small it happens to be, I'm just going to
make an impact. Whether it's one person or a million people,
I just am going to start sharing. Social media is
a good way to do that. The book appearances like this,
which I'm grateful for to help get the message out there.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Oh well, I've really enjoyed listening to your story, John,
and I think it makes a lot of sense and
I'm sure you will help a lot of people with
this message. So thank you for sharing something that's really
vulnerable as well, particularly from a male, because I feel
like males aren't particularly great at sharing so well done.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
We need to talk with Coast FMS Tony Street.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
If you enjoyed the podcast, click to share with family
or friends. To get in touch, email we need to
talk at gastonline, dot co dot nz
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