December 29, 2024 • 35 mins
It's time for the very best episodes of We Need To Talk for 2024
In part two, Toni chats with her hair saviour Zoe Clark, and Denise Taylor and Lisa Goulart of the New Zealand Dizziness and Balance Center
0:00 Zoe Clark on how she fixed Toni's hair
We Need To Talk Beauty
In this episode, Toni Street catches up with Zoe Clark.
Zoe, owner of Inco Studio, brought Toni's hair back to life after a series of set backs across her life.
Hear how she did it, what the process was like, how long it took, and how you can get your hair back too!
Plus, the hair product recommendations you need to know.
17:50 Vertigo and dizziness with Denise Taylor and Lisa Goulart
It's very likely you or someone you know has experienced vertigo at some point in your life. There are many different causes of vertigo, as it's a symptom and not an illness itself. Luckily, the New Zealand Dizziness and Balance Center specializes in discovering the cause of feelings of vertigo and dizziness and fixing the symptoms in as little as just one session.
In this episode Toni chats with Lisa Goulart and Denise Taylor about the different ways they can treat vertigo, from physiotherapy and ear, nose and throat specialists to psychotherapy.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We need to Talk Tony's three's lifestyle and Wellness podcast,
The very Best of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hello the You're welcome to We need to talk. Let's
talk here.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
I don't know about you, but I did not appreciate
my hair when I was young. I had thick, glossy
main which I used to straighten within an inch of
its life, tied up when it was wet, and by damn,
I didn't know what I had until suddenly it was gone.
Now my hair damage story is probably an extreme example.
(00:32):
I was on a huge concoction of anti organ rejection
drugs that was to combat an autoimmune condition, which included
steroid infusions, mic effenolate, methotrex eight, just to name a
few of the drugs. It literally sizzled my hair. It
fell out in clumps, changed its color, and it was
like a coarse piece of straw. It was so bad
I had to cut it all off in a bob,
(00:53):
which I'd never had in my life, and I wore
hair pieces to thicken it out. When I was hosting
seven Sharp on TVN. That was in my early thirties
and right after I'd had my second baby, McKenzie. So
fast forward eight or so years. I'm now forty and
I feel like I finally got my here back, but
there were many years of substandard here in between. I
(01:16):
got it back because of here guru Zoe Clark. She's
the owner of Inco Here Salon in Ponsonby and Auckland.
Now this is not sponsored in any way. I pay
for my own here, but it's got to the point
where Zoe has helped so many people I know fix
their damaged here that I need to let you know
about it and how you can get your here back too.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So it's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It's nice to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Not no pundent he yet I have to say a
massive thank you to you because I feel like I
wasn't going to get my hair back, and now it
is looking healthy again. And I'm really surprised because I
feel like I'm someone that's usually across you know, here
and beauty, and I thought, yeah, you know, I thought
I had done everything to try and get it back,
(02:01):
and now suddenly it's nice again. So can you just
tell the story of when I first came into your
cell of yes and how you have sort of fixed
it across the last year or so.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Absolutely, So when we first met, we sat down in
the chair and we had some situations going on, so
I blocked out quite a bit of time just so
I could keep an eye on your hair and the
lifting process and just really make sure that there was
no additional heat coming off anything or a reaction to anything.
So we did that really gently lifted it up and
(02:33):
it was absolutely fine. So then we sort of plumped
it full of moisture, some bonding treatments, lots and lots
of nourishment, and just really made sure that we didn't
overlap any of the lightner and just lifted it as
slowly and cleanly as possible, just to keep the integrity
of the hair nice and strong.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Can you be honest, what did you think when you
first saw my hair and the state it was in.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
It's the worst I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Tell me what what was wrong with it? And you
can be brutal because I'm fine now.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Well, the whole front was gone, so and it wasn't
just gone. The ends were so sizzled that you literally
like heat putting in in heat on it would be terrifying.
So yeah, we had to be really careful in where
we put the color as well, and obviously with the
breakage at the front, that's where we kind of want
our lightness, So we really had to navigate that and
(03:26):
treat that hair really carefully to make sure that that
breakage didn't travel any further, because then we would have
had no front at all.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Just to give you a visual, it looked like I'd
cut a weird christiery type fringe.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
And I wasn't even intending to have a fringe.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
So it's like when the kids grab it and then
chop it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yes, it's exactly. And it was kind of sticking up
because it was so coarse.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Yeah, and it was short, it didn't have the weight,
especially on the ends.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Because I was having to clip it like I was
five again, just so that I could manage it. What
makes the hair go like that? And there are several
reasons as to why you can have your hair so
out of shape.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Yeah, So there's a few factors, So lots of things. Environments, stress,
medication over like too much color, too much heat, styling,
just your unnecessary damage. Overlapping of lightner or like hitting
the hair hard and fast can cause that kind of reaction,
(04:27):
especially if the color has been pulled right through the ends.
Combat that with heat styling and just lack of moisture
dehydration in the hair. It can get like that. But that,
like I said, that was the worst I have seen.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah, and it was certainly the worst my hair had
been in my life. So I'm very thankful to have
it back in a sort of credible state.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Now she's getting there, Yeah, I'm getting there.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
It has taken over a year.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
So what if people are in a similar situation to
me and they just don't know what to do with
your hair? Obviously, go and see a reputable sell on.
But what else can we be doing ourselves, like at home,
to make sure we're not making the problem worse.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
I think a good mixture of like a really good
hair care routine, but combating that within the seal on
as well. So whatever your hairdresser or hairstylus or colorist
tells you you need on your hair, trust that advice.
Take those products home. I always forego if the hairs
really dehydrated, forego your conditioner. Pop in a mask instead.
(05:29):
You're going to get more benefits from that, it's more concentrated.
But really trust that advice, because if you're spending this
money trying to sort your hair out, and then you
go in and throw in some hair care that might
not be exactly what you need, or hindering or layering
the hair in some way. Then we're trying to combat
it again. It's not going to get any better. So yeah,
making sure your home hair care routine is as best
(05:51):
as it can be. And then also heat protecting if
you are lighter and then you are heat styling a lot,
make sure you've got the best heat protected you can.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
And when you say heat protectant, when does that go
on the hair?
Speaker 5 (06:04):
So pre blow dry and then pre hot or staling. Yeah,
so I would put one in pre blow drying. And
you see there's lots of memes on Instagram where they're
testing colour Well, which is one that we have the
dream Coat spray, Kerostars products and a bunch of other
products and they light them on the end of a
cotton bud and shows you how much they burn.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's really interesting.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
So if you see those the best one, the Kera
Stars and the dream Coat by colour Well a phenomenal.
They barely barely change. And then you see some other
ones that just completely blow up.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Oh wow.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Yeah, so you want to make sure on every bottle,
if you turn on the back, it's got the degree
of heat protection on it, so you know you'll be protected.
Fifty degrees, two hundred degrees, four hundred degrees.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Okay, So what sort of degree protection do you want
you want?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
So when you turn your irons on, you can obviously
control that heat setting. So whatever setting you are going,
whatever your hair needs to get the smooth result that
you you want to make sure you're covered there. So
if it's two hundred degrees, you want to go for
something two hundred degrees and above heat protection.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, yeah, okay, that makes total sense. So in terms
of a hair care routine, because I feel like we
talk a lot about skincare here, care kind of.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Gets left awebit.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
What should your routine look like in a week, and
I mean right down to when how many times you
should be washing, what you should be putting on it,
what would be the sort of optimum of people are
wanting to get their hair back, all depending on the
health of your scalp as well, So that is a
massive factor. How often you exercise, what your oil production
(07:38):
is if you're on the drier side, So those play
a mass effector In terms of how often you should
wash your hair, I always say two to three days. Again,
if you've got really thick care your scalp's absolutely fine,
you're going to go once a week. But that's all
depending on what's going on. But I would say as
a general rule, two to three days is healthy. Again,
(08:00):
depending on what product you're using. Two shampoos always so
cleansing your scalp twice. So the first one will just
remove any oil, dirt, impurities, lift anything off your scalp,
any product built up, and then the second, depending on
the range that you're using, will go in and the
benefits that are in that shampoo will then penetrate into
the cuticle. And then, depending on the condition, you can
(08:23):
either go in with conditioner just raking it through your
ponytowel leaving it in for a couple of minutes, or
your mask at that stage and then lead that in
for a few minutes as well.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
And if you've got the dry hair, then you definitely
throw it in the mask.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Yeah, I would, even if it's only a temporary switch out,
like's say, for one pot of mask, you swap out
your conditioner, get through that one and then go back.
If you see an improvement, but it's just more concentrated
and you're going to get softer, smoother result, and your
hair is going to really soak up anything that it
needs out of it.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, you think I mentioned at the start, you know,
I remember being told at one point when I was
don't tie your hair up when it's wet.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
What do you think are some of the common mistakes
that perhaps we do like that one? And obviously when
you tie your hair when it's wet, it can damage
the hair, right because it's wet and you sort of
tight within an inch of its life.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Yeah, So you notice, like a lot of people, especially
a few girlfriends of mine, they always pull their hair
tight back. And the reason they do it wet is
because they find that throughout the day it lasts better
and it's that it had to blow dry it smooth
and then tied up. They've kind of put their hairspray
in while it's wet and it stays that way, which
is great.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It's a very InStyle to have that sleep back look
to Yes.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Absolutely, but when the hair's wet, it obviously stretches because
the elasticity in the hair. So when you're pulling it
within an inch of its life to a sing it round.
When that hair dries, it starts to shrink, So that's
when the breakage happens. And depending on how you toe
your hair, if it is really tight, that's unavoidable.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
It's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
You'll notice some people will have sort of hair loss
or breakage around the front because it's pulled so tight,
and that's obviously the furthest tension. But yeah, depending what
you're tying with as well, if it's a hard core
elastic and you are really tightening that, you'll see the
ends where you do tie as well, they'll go a
little frayed and a little dryer. You'll see some broken
(10:16):
bits happening there. But yeah, it is that is the
reason why. So when it shrinks, so yeah, when it
shrinks back, that's when the breakage can happen because it's
kind of trying to go back to its natural state
when it's dry, but yet you've pulled it into the
state when it's wet and it just can't kind of win,
especially if it's quite a common habit on the daily.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Okay, so try and dry it first before your time there, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Or I've recommended for some of my clients if they
shampoo at night. It depends on your routines. Some people
have really strict habits and they can't not jump in
the shower without shampooing their hair and things like that.
So depending on your habits. But I always say, if
you do want to do that, if you can shampoo
at night, blow draw your hair at night and then
go back in your sleek, A little bit of water,
(11:02):
a little bit of hydration, absolutely fine. But when all
of the links are saturated, that's when you're going to
have your problem.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Follow us on Instagram and we need to talk with
Tony Street. Now bag to the very best of twenty
twenty four.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Why do you think because my story is not actually
an isolated story, and I've got a couple of friends
of mine and Laura McGoldrick won't mind me naming her,
then we're in a similar situation and try to get
their hair back as well. Why do you think so
many people have got damaged hair at the moment.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Ah, it's a hard one, to be honest. I think, yeah,
it's definitely a hard one. I think our industry is
definitely having some challenges at the moment. So I think
if you can't get your hands on the best products available,
there might be some ones that aren't so great. Sometimes
(11:54):
those can cause severe dryness on the hair depending on
the ingredients of it. I always say, if you can
have the best products available, then why not, But unfortunately
it's not within everyone's means to do so, so that
can be one factor. I think again, like we mentioned earlier,
combating a bit of overlapping.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Of the color, the color.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
The peroxide mix with the color, the level is too
high for the hair needed, and it's kind.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Of hard and fast.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Yeah, and that that can be a bit of a
trend as well. I'll get you in and out as
fast as possible, or I need to hit it as
hard as I can, which yes, in some cases absolutely,
but combat that with severe heat styling.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It's not going to end well.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Can you talk me through some of the success success
stories you've had, obviously on one of them. How do
people react when you take their hair from you know,
a state to having it back where it's manageable and
looks pretty again.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Yeah, it's it's so nice. But my thing is is
it's to have been there in the first place. So
in some situations and like Laura's, like I was the
kind of not the enemy, but I had to take
a slightly darker to then enable us to go lighter,
which some people might be like, well, you can't do that,
that's going to cause more damage on the hair, but
not in this case because we had different banding and
(13:16):
things like that. Another client of mine, who you also know,
had a similar thing where a color was put on
the roots unnecessarily, so I had to lift all of
that color out in foil to then enable some of
her natural to come through. So I always feel like,
initially I'm not giving you what you want, but we
(13:37):
get there in the end, which is awesome. But yeah,
for me, it's a humbling journey because I'm unfortunately, I
feel a little bit let down because you shouldn't have
been there in the first place. But I'm happy that
I can sort of and I have the trust to
get you back on track and where you need to be.
So it's a nice experience for me, but a little
bit devastating at first because I'm like, you shouldn't be here,
(13:58):
you know.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And that was one thing that I have learned too,
is it's not necessarily all going to get sorted out
in one appointment, but you know here I am a
year later sitting here really really happy. So I guess
you know it takes a walter to ruin your hair
and it's going to take a little while to get
it back to its natural state.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
In terms of trends of here for going into I
guess the summer and twenty twenty four, what would you
say is popular?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
What do you think is keev? Can you predict what
will be big? Trends are a funny one.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
They sort of used to be really prevalent and you
would notice that massive trends shift between seasons or years
or anything like that. I think now we've had a
lot of clients cutting their hair off. I think that
there was a model coming through the Yuke out of
the UK summer and you just see her sort of
getting out of the beach and her little French bob
(14:55):
is looking super cute. So we've had lots of those,
and we always go either a longer or shorter in summer,
depending on what people like to do. We are seeing
lots of lots of the bobs again, like brighter, cleaner blondes.
I think those are always always a hit in summer,
but it's really customizable now to the client and kind
(15:16):
of what they want to do. There's no standout trends
Like I saw there was this viral TikTok makeup trend
the other day and it was something about like men
crushing or something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Like it was quite a hard case.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
So it was like, I can't remember exactly what it
was called, but it went viral. But yeah, we haven't
had We had the Scandy hairline, which she was massive
coming out of winter, and that was just your sort
of pop of face framing right on your hairline. Yeah,
with sort of like melting melting color mounts and things
like that. We are seeing a few warmer tones which
is quite nice, yeah, but still still your same lived in, smudgy,
(15:52):
glossy color.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, yep, that's what I like to go. Yeah, very
boring in terms of products.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
If you could leave us today with some recommendations, I
know you mentioned earlier the Kera Stars. What are your
phaves that people might like to go out and get
to protect their hair all year round.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Perfect.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
So there are three ranges which are our best sellers
from the Kerasas collection. So we have the chroma range,
which is for colored and highlighted hair, so they have
two different shampoos depending on the thickness, and then they
have a conditioner a mask, and then your heat protectant
as well. There is a tapcom treatment that you can
(16:33):
do too in that range, and that just promotes shine
in a pH balance of the lynks. The nutritive range,
if your hair is on the slightly dryer side and
you need some hydration, that's a beautiful range. They've got
everything you would need in that range. And then the
blonde absolute so the Keras Blonde Absolute range for your blonds.
You've got your purple shampoo in their mask as well,
(16:56):
and then there's two other shampoos, one for highlighted hair
and one for really really dehydrated lightened here, and that
is beautiful. Again, they've got your heat protections in all
of those ranges. But any of those those would cover
every head of hair and every hair color type as
well in those three ranges.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But they're beautiful.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
Yeah, you really feel the benefits instantly, which is nice.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
So thank you so much, and thank you for fixing
so many people's here and for sharing your tips today.
And if you are someone like me that had here
that was you just didn't know what to do with.
Hopefully this has given you a bit of inspiration today
that you can get it back. It can be back
to nearly its former glory of when you were young
and you didn't appreciate it, and you can take that
(17:41):
away today.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
You're listening to the very best of We need to
Talk twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Hello, it's great to have you with us for we
need to talk.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Vertiko is a feeling of you or your surroundings moving
when there is no actual movement. Maybe you've experienced this
before or someone you know has. The problem with vertico
and balance disorder is it's often a multi factorial problem,
which means you might need a team of different people
to help you, such as anti specialists, audiologists and physiotherapists.
(18:11):
The good news is New Zealand has a specialized dizziness
and balance center. That's where our two guests are from today,
Lisa Gulart, who is an audiologist and professor. Denise Taylor,
who was a physiotherapist and lecturer.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
It's lovely to have you both with me.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I had no idea we had a dizziness center. It
kind of seems like almost a made up name, Denise.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
It does rather, but we've been in existence since twenty
twelve when we actually opened, and we opened after some
patients really were talking to us about the need for it,
and we suggested to our A and T friends that
they send us some dizzy people and so we treated
(18:54):
them and there was a great effect. So from that
point we decided that we really needed to do something
something up, which we tried to do in the public
health system, but that didn't quite work out, so we
set up this clinic.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
How many people suffer vertigo or dizziness.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
It's really common, and it gets more common as we
get older. So the most common condition has a terrible name.
It's called Beni and paroxy's more positional vertigo, and it
occurs in about forty percent of people over the age
of sixty five. So most people are probably going to
experience some form of dizziness at some point in their lifetime.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Well even people under sixty five, even people under sixty five.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And I know this because a friend of mine who
was in her early thirties said that she was experiencing vertigo,
had no idea where to start to actually get it treated.
Is that quite commonly so people not knowing what to
do about it.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Yes. First of all, they think something really bad is happening,
a hard attack or stroke. The panic often one when
one scored for some emergency treatment, and then later on
when stroke or a heart to attack is being ruled out,
the disness doesn't go away, and then they start to think,
(20:06):
what's happening with me? This patient would often go back
to their GP, and then the GP would contact us,
sometimes not always, and that's when the condition. We see
patient suffering for ten years, ten plus years, and nothing's
been concrete diagnosed or there's no concrete diagnosis or action around.
(20:26):
They just think is normal. Oh, this is me, this
is my life. Now. Every time I roll over in bad,
I will spin And it's not true.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
What causes vertigo?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Vin?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
What is it that leads to an episode?
Speaker 6 (20:36):
There could be lots of different reasons for vertigo. One
of the most common, which is what I've talked about before,
is BPPV, and that's really related to in the middle
part of the inner ear, which is the vestibular system,
there are little crystals that are attached to a jelly
like bad and sometimes they just flake off.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
A little bit.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
People talk about it as crystals, but it's more like
having little bits of dust that are then free and
floating around in the vestibular system, and when you move
your head, they move and create this sense of dizziness.
And so people talk about this as having crystals in
their ear, and it's actually these tiny bits of dust
in their inner ear. So every time they move theirhead
(21:20):
they get this horrible spinning dizziness. So we can do
certain maneuvers to diagnose whereabouts in the system this might
be and how to treat it. So we can successfully
treat BPPV in one to three sessions for most people.
Depends how long it's been going on. Of course, if
(21:40):
it's been going on for ten years, it will take
us a bit longer.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
But it is highly curable.
Speaker 6 (21:45):
Then BPPV is highly curable. There are a number of
vestibular conditions that aren't curable, such as many air's disease,
where we're really looking to manage the condition and teach
people how to manage their dizziness and their imbalance as
best they can.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
How do you know, Lisa, if you might have vertigo
versus maybe just feeling a little bit faint, the.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Vertigo, The room will spin around you fast. You don't
lose consciousness. You might be on your force on the ground.
How to maintain upright position? And you go for a
spin as if you drink too much? Were the ones
who drink put your head back in the pillow. Well,
the ceiling starts going. That's that's the vertigo feeling.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
And how often do people experience that? Like, how regularly
does it occur if you have that condition?
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Depends what's affecting, depending what's causing the vertigo. If it
is positioned a vertigo, we say, once you have it,
you have it again. We can treat and it could
come back in a month, in a week, in ten years,
in fifty years. We often recommend it to keep a
diary of symptoms. Contact us. If we treat someone and
the treatment seems to be successful, expect that this will
(22:54):
happen again, and we just recommend it. Don't panic contact us.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
How widespread it across the ages?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
You talked about the case of sixty five plus, but
what about those under sixty five? How often do you
see younger people?
Speaker 6 (23:07):
We still see a lot of younger people, and that
can be across a variety of different sorts of conditions.
So part of what we do is to try and
work out is it the inner ear, is it the
vestibular system that's going wrong, And if it is the
inner ear, what exactly is going wrong? So diagnosis is
the first challenge for us. Once we have a diagnosis,
(23:29):
we can treat children.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
It was the children we've had seen ninety four five
years old concussion, sleep in the playground, knock the head,
something dislodged in the ear or triggered something. So children, Yeah,
would like not to see anyone under four five. Then
I'll think the pediatrician to manage and find out because
it's not that common. The eldest would be nineties into
(23:54):
the nineties.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
We've seen, we've seen people with business where we can
do something about it and help improve their quality of life.
But that there are just so many things that can
cause dizziness, and certainly with aging, you don't always feel
the same sort of spinning that Lisa was describing. Sometimes
you just feel more as if you're rocking or swaying,
(24:17):
and that can be related to a vestibular dysfunction, although
not necessarily.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And how do you know which specialist is right for you?
Because Lisa, you're an audiologist. Denise, you are a physiotherapist,
but you can also include an eonos and throat specialist.
So when someone comes to you and says, I'm experiencing
this vertigo, this dizziness, how do you know where to start?
Speaker 4 (24:38):
It's based on the history. We're going to ask a
lot of questions. I'm going to want to know the
description of the feeling because it could be just an unsteadiness,
the world is in spinning, the person is spinning inside them,
or they have a swimmy brain. It's very common. It's
based on history, the frequency, the test results we find
in our clinic, and that will give us a pretty
(25:01):
good idea whether that person should be referred to anyanos
and thought specialist, or neurologist or kariologist or a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
So, Denise, you're a physiotherapist, how do you help people
with this condition?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
What maneuvers are you doing?
Speaker 6 (25:15):
We work really closely with the audiologists and together we
put our information together and that helps us to determine
what's happening for the person. So as a physiotherapist, we
would be looking at their balance and whether or not
the vestibular system is affecting their balance. So we have
(25:36):
a computerized dynamic postrography, which is a very flashy way
of measuring somebody's balance and how well they're using their
different senses to keep balance. So in order for us
to stay upright, we use information from our inner ear,
but also from our vision and from the sense of
our feet on the ground. When people are feeling in balance,
(25:56):
it can be any of those things that are affected,
so we're specific looking out for the things that are
affecting the vestibular system. So our assessment of balance helps
us to determine that, and then we'll treat giving exercises
to try and improve the use of that system. Sometimes
it's the brain not quite integrating and managing all that
(26:17):
information from the sensory systems well enough, so we give
exercises to help the brain kind of work out what
to do when you haven't got vision, or when your
inner ear is telling you this, but actually your feet
are telling you something different. So we design specific interventions
to help the individual with those sorts of issues, as
(26:40):
well as particular maneuvers for if somebody has this horrible
BPPV condition, so we can do a particular maneuver of
the head to move those crystals back into where they're
meant to be.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Wow, we need to talk retuns twenty twenty five on
January two, twenty seventh. But now bag to the very
best of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Because I think if you see vertigo to a lot
of people, they might think of a movie or if
you're climbing a mountain and whole I got vertigo? Is
that a different type of vertigo, Lisa, to what you're
describing today.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Yeah, I wouldn't call that vertigo.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I would call that the movie seys it's called.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
But Lisa said no, I'd say the vertigo is the
true spinning of the world. That's what we call true vertigo.
That would be an imbalance. There would be a misinformation,
some unreliable information coming from your vision and your brain's like, WHOA,
where are you? You're too high or your feet are
sinking on this snow and this high mountain that we are.
(27:45):
There's a miss message. The brain is just taking a
little time to adjust.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
And that sense of you know, when you're standing on
the high building, and that very sense of vertigo that
people talk about as vertigo, is this kind of difficulty
and perce leaving the death compared to your feet are
on the ground, But actually that looks a long way away.
So you get a slight perception of vertigo. But it's
not It doesn't fit the true definition of vertigo, which
(28:11):
is this spinning sensation.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
How debilitating can that sense of spinning be?
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Very I had an event of position of vertigo during lockdown.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You yourself had it.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Myself horrible, horrible in my respect for anyone suffering from vertigo. Oh,
it's gonna halp a few levels because it is very debilitating.
I panicked. I end up any I was filming my
eyes because I know how to read eye movement. When
you have a vertigo attack, your eyes do funny things,
(28:46):
and by looking at someone's eyes we can tell where
that vertigo is coming from. And I couldn't interpret it.
It was a weird It was the most rare version
of vertical someone could see. And I end up in
any or. I was thinking was how I'm going to
look after my children, I'm going to go to work.
It was horrible.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
How did you? How did you fix yourself?
Speaker 4 (29:08):
It ended up it was a position of vertigo. It
was a rare form. The crystals were stuck in the
very awkward position of the inner ear. I was just
banging my head and trying to free the crystals. And
when I successfully did so, then my vertigo changed the
way I was spinning, and I really recorded my eyes
(29:28):
again and then I could understand what was going on.
And then I treated myself wow with rolling my head
around and before me a maneuver called aptly. So the
inner eyear. We have three semi circular canals on each side,
so you've got six possibilities. The crystals could be floating
around six possibility. The six is three and three. Mine
(29:52):
was stuck in a small little portion of the ear,
so it was a bit of a tricky one.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, and Denny, you've had vodigo as well.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
I have.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
When did your episode Heaven?
Speaker 6 (30:04):
Oh about twenty years ago actually, so a long time
ago before we'd set up the diusiness and balance clinic,
although I was interested in vertigo academically at that time.
But I had a what's called a stibular neritis, So
it's an inflammation or infection of the nerve that supplies
the inner ear. I just had severe spinning dizziness for
about three days, where I couldn't get out of bed.
(30:26):
I had a loss of balance, and I felt nauseous
and sick, and I felt so sick. I didn't do anything.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I just lay there.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
And waited for all that to go away.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
So did it go away on its own? Or did
you have to be treated?
Speaker 6 (30:38):
So that went away on its own? Or it improves
in about three days? So the severity of the disiness
decreases significantly after about three days. But then I was
left with a little bit of dizziness. But I had
to treat myself because there wasn't any dizziness and balance
center at that time.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
And now there is, and now there is.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
It make you feel quite said that some people will
endure this for over ten years in some cases, when.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Actually they could be fixed with three sessions.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
Yeah, yeah, it is, and we try to address that.
So we do provide training for other people, and there
are other physiotherapists in particular around the country that also
provide training in how to treat some of the more
common vestibular syndromes. But there's really nowhere else in New
Zealand that has all that assessment equipment in one place.
(31:29):
So we're really lucky at our clinic to have all
the assessment equipment in one place so we can look
at diagnosis. But there are lots of physiotherapists around the
country that have particular expertise in vestibular disorders, and they
would usually advertise on their website as a vestibular physiotherapist,
so they will have some specialist training, so they're the
(31:51):
first port of call.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, it's quite hard with some of the language.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
It's quite technical, so I can see why people don't
automatically get the messaging. Lisa, what would your message to
anyone that has a dizzy or vertigo episode?
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Try not to panic, try to understand, try to describe
exactly how to try to make notes important things for us.
Duration of the attack thirty seconds, three hours, that means
completely different things. Try to video record the eye movement.
Can you trigger it? How long does it last? So
(32:26):
if it lasts thirty seconds, can you trigger it? So
rolling over in bed, can you bring it on or not?
It's just it's there for three hours, no matter what
to do, so just make notes, keep calm, make nodes.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Is there any cases where you can't cure the vertigo?
Speaker 6 (32:41):
There's lots of cases where we can't condition such as
many as disease where vertigo will come in attack. So
there'll be a big period of an attack, and then
it tends to settle down for a while, and then
there might be in a year or so another big attack.
We can't do anything during those bigtime hacks, but what
(33:01):
we can do when it's settled down is to teach
people how to manage with their balance a little bit better,
so we can provide some rehabilitation to help to manage
that condition. And I think also explaining to people what's
happening and them having an understanding about what's happening really helps.
It helps people stop panicking about what's occurring to them, which.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
No doubt makes it worse.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
And the use of drugs as well, were understanding better. Yeah, medication,
effective medication.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
What sort of medication would you give? What type?
Speaker 4 (33:31):
What's causing the vertigo? For miniears disease, for example, the
use of better hating circ I think well Virgo sixteen
would be the commercial name, high doses of it, but
needs to be managed by the eonails and float visialist.
I'm talking about in the past people being prescribed one
(33:51):
a day to now thirty three a day a day, wow,
ten three times a day. So yeah, so it's possible
to manage.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
So the Disney and Balance Center sounds like the place
to be if this is an issue for you.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So how do people denise contact you? Guys?
Speaker 6 (34:07):
We are incredibly busy. As you've heard, dizziness is really
common and so we only take referrals from your GP
or another health professional. So we get referrals from ACC,
we have referrals from the DHBs, We have referrals from
people's GPS and from other health professionals such as other
(34:29):
physiotherapists that people have gone to see.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
So if they're not aware of it, perhaps just let
them know that there is a place and get that
piece of paper. I really appreciate you both coming in
and especially given you've both had this condition before, and
hopefully for anyone listening to this, they'll now know where
to go.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Thanks for listening to the very best. We need to
talk for twenty twenty four. Subscribe to the podcast to
keep up to date when we return for twenty twenty five.
To get in touch email, we need to talk at
Coast online dot co dot MZ or follow us on Instagram,
and we need to talk with Tony Street
We need to Talk Tony's three's lifestyle and Wellness podcast,
The very Best of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hello the You're welcome to We need to talk. Let's
talk here.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
I don't know about you, but I did not appreciate
my hair when I was young. I had thick, glossy
main which I used to straighten within an inch of
its life, tied up when it was wet, and by damn,
I didn't know what I had until suddenly it was gone.
Now my hair damage story is probably an extreme example.
(00:32):
I was on a huge concoction of anti organ rejection
drugs that was to combat an autoimmune condition, which included
steroid infusions, mic effenolate, methotrex eight, just to name a
few of the drugs. It literally sizzled my hair. It
fell out in clumps, changed its color, and it was
like a coarse piece of straw. It was so bad
I had to cut it all off in a bob,
(00:53):
which I'd never had in my life, and I wore
hair pieces to thicken it out. When I was hosting
seven Sharp on TVN. That was in my early thirties
and right after I'd had my second baby, McKenzie. So
fast forward eight or so years. I'm now forty and
I feel like I finally got my here back, but
there were many years of substandard here in between. I
(01:16):
got it back because of here guru Zoe Clark. She's
the owner of Inco Here Salon in Ponsonby and Auckland.
Now this is not sponsored in any way. I pay
for my own here, but it's got to the point
where Zoe has helped so many people I know fix
their damaged here that I need to let you know
about it and how you can get your here back too.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So it's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It's nice to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Not no pundent he yet I have to say a
massive thank you to you because I feel like I
wasn't going to get my hair back, and now it
is looking healthy again. And I'm really surprised because I
feel like I'm someone that's usually across you know, here
and beauty, and I thought, yeah, you know, I thought
I had done everything to try and get it back,
(02:01):
and now suddenly it's nice again. So can you just
tell the story of when I first came into your
cell of yes and how you have sort of fixed
it across the last year or so.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Absolutely, So when we first met, we sat down in
the chair and we had some situations going on, so
I blocked out quite a bit of time just so
I could keep an eye on your hair and the
lifting process and just really make sure that there was
no additional heat coming off anything or a reaction to anything.
So we did that really gently lifted it up and
(02:33):
it was absolutely fine. So then we sort of plumped
it full of moisture, some bonding treatments, lots and lots
of nourishment, and just really made sure that we didn't
overlap any of the lightner and just lifted it as
slowly and cleanly as possible, just to keep the integrity
of the hair nice and strong.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Can you be honest, what did you think when you
first saw my hair and the state it was in.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
It's the worst I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Tell me what what was wrong with it? And you
can be brutal because I'm fine now.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Well, the whole front was gone, so and it wasn't
just gone. The ends were so sizzled that you literally
like heat putting in in heat on it would be terrifying.
So yeah, we had to be really careful in where
we put the color as well, and obviously with the
breakage at the front, that's where we kind of want
our lightness, So we really had to navigate that and
(03:26):
treat that hair really carefully to make sure that that
breakage didn't travel any further, because then we would have
had no front at all.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Just to give you a visual, it looked like I'd
cut a weird christiery type fringe.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
And I wasn't even intending to have a fringe.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
So it's like when the kids grab it and then
chop it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yes, it's exactly. And it was kind of sticking up
because it was so coarse.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Yeah, and it was short, it didn't have the weight,
especially on the ends.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Because I was having to clip it like I was
five again, just so that I could manage it. What
makes the hair go like that? And there are several
reasons as to why you can have your hair so
out of shape.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Yeah, So there's a few factors, So lots of things. Environments, stress,
medication over like too much color, too much heat, styling,
just your unnecessary damage. Overlapping of lightner or like hitting
the hair hard and fast can cause that kind of reaction,
(04:27):
especially if the color has been pulled right through the ends.
Combat that with heat styling and just lack of moisture
dehydration in the hair. It can get like that. But that,
like I said, that was the worst I have seen.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah, and it was certainly the worst my hair had
been in my life. So I'm very thankful to have
it back in a sort of credible state.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Now she's getting there, Yeah, I'm getting there.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
It has taken over a year.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
So what if people are in a similar situation to
me and they just don't know what to do with
your hair? Obviously, go and see a reputable sell on.
But what else can we be doing ourselves, like at home,
to make sure we're not making the problem worse.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
I think a good mixture of like a really good
hair care routine, but combating that within the seal on
as well. So whatever your hairdresser or hairstylus or colorist
tells you you need on your hair, trust that advice.
Take those products home. I always forego if the hairs
really dehydrated, forego your conditioner. Pop in a mask instead.
(05:29):
You're going to get more benefits from that, it's more concentrated.
But really trust that advice, because if you're spending this
money trying to sort your hair out, and then you
go in and throw in some hair care that might
not be exactly what you need, or hindering or layering
the hair in some way. Then we're trying to combat
it again. It's not going to get any better. So yeah,
making sure your home hair care routine is as best
(05:51):
as it can be. And then also heat protecting if
you are lighter and then you are heat styling a lot,
make sure you've got the best heat protected you can.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
And when you say heat protectant, when does that go
on the hair?
Speaker 5 (06:04):
So pre blow dry and then pre hot or staling. Yeah,
so I would put one in pre blow drying. And
you see there's lots of memes on Instagram where they're
testing colour Well, which is one that we have the
dream Coat spray, Kerostars products and a bunch of other
products and they light them on the end of a
cotton bud and shows you how much they burn.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's really interesting.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
So if you see those the best one, the Kera
Stars and the dream Coat by colour Well a phenomenal.
They barely barely change. And then you see some other
ones that just completely blow up.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Oh wow.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Yeah, so you want to make sure on every bottle,
if you turn on the back, it's got the degree
of heat protection on it, so you know you'll be protected.
Fifty degrees, two hundred degrees, four hundred degrees.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Okay, So what sort of degree protection do you want
you want?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
So when you turn your irons on, you can obviously
control that heat setting. So whatever setting you are going,
whatever your hair needs to get the smooth result that
you you want to make sure you're covered there. So
if it's two hundred degrees, you want to go for
something two hundred degrees and above heat protection.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, yeah, okay, that makes total sense. So in terms
of a hair care routine, because I feel like we
talk a lot about skincare here, care kind of.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Gets left awebit.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
What should your routine look like in a week, and
I mean right down to when how many times you
should be washing, what you should be putting on it,
what would be the sort of optimum of people are
wanting to get their hair back, all depending on the
health of your scalp as well, So that is a
massive factor. How often you exercise, what your oil production
(07:38):
is if you're on the drier side, So those play
a mass effector In terms of how often you should
wash your hair, I always say two to three days. Again,
if you've got really thick care your scalp's absolutely fine,
you're going to go once a week. But that's all
depending on what's going on. But I would say as
a general rule, two to three days is healthy. Again,
(08:00):
depending on what product you're using. Two shampoos always so
cleansing your scalp twice. So the first one will just
remove any oil, dirt, impurities, lift anything off your scalp,
any product built up, and then the second, depending on
the range that you're using, will go in and the
benefits that are in that shampoo will then penetrate into
the cuticle. And then, depending on the condition, you can
(08:23):
either go in with conditioner just raking it through your
ponytowel leaving it in for a couple of minutes, or
your mask at that stage and then lead that in
for a few minutes as well.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
And if you've got the dry hair, then you definitely
throw it in the mask.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Yeah, I would, even if it's only a temporary switch out,
like's say, for one pot of mask, you swap out
your conditioner, get through that one and then go back.
If you see an improvement, but it's just more concentrated
and you're going to get softer, smoother result, and your
hair is going to really soak up anything that it
needs out of it.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, you think I mentioned at the start, you know,
I remember being told at one point when I was
don't tie your hair up when it's wet.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
What do you think are some of the common mistakes
that perhaps we do like that one? And obviously when
you tie your hair when it's wet, it can damage
the hair, right because it's wet and you sort of
tight within an inch of its life.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Yeah, So you notice, like a lot of people, especially
a few girlfriends of mine, they always pull their hair
tight back. And the reason they do it wet is
because they find that throughout the day it lasts better
and it's that it had to blow dry it smooth
and then tied up. They've kind of put their hairspray
in while it's wet and it stays that way, which
is great.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It's a very InStyle to have that sleep back look
to Yes.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Absolutely, but when the hair's wet, it obviously stretches because
the elasticity in the hair. So when you're pulling it
within an inch of its life to a sing it round.
When that hair dries, it starts to shrink, So that's
when the breakage happens. And depending on how you toe
your hair, if it is really tight, that's unavoidable.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
It's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
You'll notice some people will have sort of hair loss
or breakage around the front because it's pulled so tight,
and that's obviously the furthest tension. But yeah, depending what
you're tying with as well, if it's a hard core
elastic and you are really tightening that, you'll see the
ends where you do tie as well, they'll go a
little frayed and a little dryer. You'll see some broken
(10:16):
bits happening there. But yeah, it is that is the
reason why. So when it shrinks, so yeah, when it
shrinks back, that's when the breakage can happen because it's
kind of trying to go back to its natural state
when it's dry, but yet you've pulled it into the
state when it's wet and it just can't kind of win,
especially if it's quite a common habit on the daily.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Okay, so try and dry it first before your time there, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Or I've recommended for some of my clients if they
shampoo at night. It depends on your routines. Some people
have really strict habits and they can't not jump in
the shower without shampooing their hair and things like that.
So depending on your habits. But I always say, if
you do want to do that, if you can shampoo
at night, blow draw your hair at night and then
go back in your sleek, A little bit of water,
(11:02):
a little bit of hydration, absolutely fine. But when all
of the links are saturated, that's when you're going to
have your problem.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Follow us on Instagram and we need to talk with
Tony Street. Now bag to the very best of twenty
twenty four.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Why do you think because my story is not actually
an isolated story, and I've got a couple of friends
of mine and Laura McGoldrick won't mind me naming her,
then we're in a similar situation and try to get
their hair back as well. Why do you think so
many people have got damaged hair at the moment.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Ah, it's a hard one, to be honest. I think, yeah,
it's definitely a hard one. I think our industry is
definitely having some challenges at the moment. So I think
if you can't get your hands on the best products available,
there might be some ones that aren't so great. Sometimes
(11:54):
those can cause severe dryness on the hair depending on
the ingredients of it. I always say, if you can
have the best products available, then why not, But unfortunately
it's not within everyone's means to do so, so that
can be one factor. I think again, like we mentioned earlier,
combating a bit of overlapping.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Of the color, the color.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
The peroxide mix with the color, the level is too
high for the hair needed, and it's kind.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Of hard and fast.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Yeah, and that that can be a bit of a
trend as well. I'll get you in and out as
fast as possible, or I need to hit it as
hard as I can, which yes, in some cases absolutely,
but combat that with severe heat styling.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It's not going to end well.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Can you talk me through some of the success success
stories you've had, obviously on one of them. How do
people react when you take their hair from you know,
a state to having it back where it's manageable and
looks pretty again.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Yeah, it's it's so nice. But my thing is is
it's to have been there in the first place. So
in some situations and like Laura's, like I was the
kind of not the enemy, but I had to take
a slightly darker to then enable us to go lighter,
which some people might be like, well, you can't do that,
that's going to cause more damage on the hair, but
not in this case because we had different banding and
(13:16):
things like that. Another client of mine, who you also know,
had a similar thing where a color was put on
the roots unnecessarily, so I had to lift all of
that color out in foil to then enable some of
her natural to come through. So I always feel like,
initially I'm not giving you what you want, but we
(13:37):
get there in the end, which is awesome. But yeah,
for me, it's a humbling journey because I'm unfortunately, I
feel a little bit let down because you shouldn't have
been there in the first place. But I'm happy that
I can sort of and I have the trust to
get you back on track and where you need to be.
So it's a nice experience for me, but a little
bit devastating at first because I'm like, you shouldn't be here,
(13:58):
you know.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And that was one thing that I have learned too,
is it's not necessarily all going to get sorted out
in one appointment, but you know here I am a
year later sitting here really really happy. So I guess
you know it takes a walter to ruin your hair
and it's going to take a little while to get
it back to its natural state.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
In terms of trends of here for going into I
guess the summer and twenty twenty four, what would you
say is popular?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
What do you think is keev? Can you predict what
will be big? Trends are a funny one.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
They sort of used to be really prevalent and you
would notice that massive trends shift between seasons or years
or anything like that. I think now we've had a
lot of clients cutting their hair off. I think that
there was a model coming through the Yuke out of
the UK summer and you just see her sort of
getting out of the beach and her little French bob
(14:55):
is looking super cute. So we've had lots of those,
and we always go either a longer or shorter in summer,
depending on what people like to do. We are seeing
lots of lots of the bobs again, like brighter, cleaner blondes.
I think those are always always a hit in summer,
but it's really customizable now to the client and kind
(15:16):
of what they want to do. There's no standout trends
Like I saw there was this viral TikTok makeup trend
the other day and it was something about like men
crushing or something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Like it was quite a hard case.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
So it was like, I can't remember exactly what it
was called, but it went viral. But yeah, we haven't
had We had the Scandy hairline, which she was massive
coming out of winter, and that was just your sort
of pop of face framing right on your hairline. Yeah,
with sort of like melting melting color mounts and things
like that. We are seeing a few warmer tones which
is quite nice, yeah, but still still your same lived in, smudgy,
(15:52):
glossy color.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, yep, that's what I like to go. Yeah, very
boring in terms of products.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
If you could leave us today with some recommendations, I
know you mentioned earlier the Kera Stars. What are your
phaves that people might like to go out and get
to protect their hair all year round.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Perfect.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
So there are three ranges which are our best sellers
from the Kerasas collection. So we have the chroma range,
which is for colored and highlighted hair, so they have
two different shampoos depending on the thickness, and then they
have a conditioner a mask, and then your heat protectant
as well. There is a tapcom treatment that you can
(16:33):
do too in that range, and that just promotes shine
in a pH balance of the lynks. The nutritive range,
if your hair is on the slightly dryer side and
you need some hydration, that's a beautiful range. They've got
everything you would need in that range. And then the
blonde absolute so the Keras Blonde Absolute range for your blonds.
You've got your purple shampoo in their mask as well,
(16:56):
and then there's two other shampoos, one for highlighted hair
and one for really really dehydrated lightened here, and that
is beautiful. Again, they've got your heat protections in all
of those ranges. But any of those those would cover
every head of hair and every hair color type as
well in those three ranges.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But they're beautiful.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
Yeah, you really feel the benefits instantly, which is nice.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
So thank you so much, and thank you for fixing
so many people's here and for sharing your tips today.
And if you are someone like me that had here
that was you just didn't know what to do with.
Hopefully this has given you a bit of inspiration today
that you can get it back. It can be back
to nearly its former glory of when you were young
and you didn't appreciate it, and you can take that
(17:41):
away today.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
You're listening to the very best of We need to
Talk twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Hello, it's great to have you with us for we
need to talk.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Vertiko is a feeling of you or your surroundings moving
when there is no actual movement. Maybe you've experienced this
before or someone you know has. The problem with vertico
and balance disorder is it's often a multi factorial problem,
which means you might need a team of different people
to help you, such as anti specialists, audiologists and physiotherapists.
(18:11):
The good news is New Zealand has a specialized dizziness
and balance center. That's where our two guests are from today,
Lisa Gulart, who is an audiologist and professor. Denise Taylor,
who was a physiotherapist and lecturer.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
It's lovely to have you both with me.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I had no idea we had a dizziness center. It
kind of seems like almost a made up name, Denise.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
It does rather, but we've been in existence since twenty
twelve when we actually opened, and we opened after some
patients really were talking to us about the need for it,
and we suggested to our A and T friends that
they send us some dizzy people and so we treated
(18:54):
them and there was a great effect. So from that
point we decided that we really needed to do something
something up, which we tried to do in the public
health system, but that didn't quite work out, so we
set up this clinic.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
How many people suffer vertigo or dizziness.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
It's really common, and it gets more common as we
get older. So the most common condition has a terrible name.
It's called Beni and paroxy's more positional vertigo, and it
occurs in about forty percent of people over the age
of sixty five. So most people are probably going to
experience some form of dizziness at some point in their lifetime.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Well even people under sixty five, even people under sixty five.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And I know this because a friend of mine who
was in her early thirties said that she was experiencing vertigo,
had no idea where to start to actually get it treated.
Is that quite commonly so people not knowing what to
do about it.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Yes. First of all, they think something really bad is happening,
a hard attack or stroke. The panic often one when
one scored for some emergency treatment, and then later on
when stroke or a heart to attack is being ruled out,
the disness doesn't go away, and then they start to think,
(20:06):
what's happening with me? This patient would often go back
to their GP, and then the GP would contact us,
sometimes not always, and that's when the condition. We see
patient suffering for ten years, ten plus years, and nothing's
been concrete diagnosed or there's no concrete diagnosis or action around.
(20:26):
They just think is normal. Oh, this is me, this
is my life. Now. Every time I roll over in bad,
I will spin And it's not true.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
What causes vertigo?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Vin?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
What is it that leads to an episode?
Speaker 6 (20:36):
There could be lots of different reasons for vertigo. One
of the most common, which is what I've talked about before,
is BPPV, and that's really related to in the middle
part of the inner ear, which is the vestibular system,
there are little crystals that are attached to a jelly
like bad and sometimes they just flake off.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
A little bit.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
People talk about it as crystals, but it's more like
having little bits of dust that are then free and
floating around in the vestibular system, and when you move
your head, they move and create this sense of dizziness.
And so people talk about this as having crystals in
their ear, and it's actually these tiny bits of dust
in their inner ear. So every time they move theirhead
(21:20):
they get this horrible spinning dizziness. So we can do
certain maneuvers to diagnose whereabouts in the system this might
be and how to treat it. So we can successfully
treat BPPV in one to three sessions for most people.
Depends how long it's been going on. Of course, if
(21:40):
it's been going on for ten years, it will take
us a bit longer.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
But it is highly curable.
Speaker 6 (21:45):
Then BPPV is highly curable. There are a number of
vestibular conditions that aren't curable, such as many air's disease,
where we're really looking to manage the condition and teach
people how to manage their dizziness and their imbalance as
best they can.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
How do you know, Lisa, if you might have vertigo
versus maybe just feeling a little bit faint, the.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Vertigo, The room will spin around you fast. You don't
lose consciousness. You might be on your force on the ground.
How to maintain upright position? And you go for a
spin as if you drink too much? Were the ones
who drink put your head back in the pillow. Well,
the ceiling starts going. That's that's the vertigo feeling.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
And how often do people experience that? Like, how regularly
does it occur if you have that condition?
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Depends what's affecting, depending what's causing the vertigo. If it
is positioned a vertigo, we say, once you have it,
you have it again. We can treat and it could
come back in a month, in a week, in ten years,
in fifty years. We often recommend it to keep a
diary of symptoms. Contact us. If we treat someone and
the treatment seems to be successful, expect that this will
(22:54):
happen again, and we just recommend it. Don't panic contact us.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
How widespread it across the ages?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
You talked about the case of sixty five plus, but
what about those under sixty five? How often do you
see younger people?
Speaker 6 (23:07):
We still see a lot of younger people, and that
can be across a variety of different sorts of conditions.
So part of what we do is to try and
work out is it the inner ear, is it the
vestibular system that's going wrong, And if it is the
inner ear, what exactly is going wrong? So diagnosis is
the first challenge for us. Once we have a diagnosis,
(23:29):
we can treat children.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
It was the children we've had seen ninety four five
years old concussion, sleep in the playground, knock the head,
something dislodged in the ear or triggered something. So children, Yeah,
would like not to see anyone under four five. Then
I'll think the pediatrician to manage and find out because
it's not that common. The eldest would be nineties into
(23:54):
the nineties.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
We've seen, we've seen people with business where we can
do something about it and help improve their quality of life.
But that there are just so many things that can
cause dizziness, and certainly with aging, you don't always feel
the same sort of spinning that Lisa was describing. Sometimes
you just feel more as if you're rocking or swaying,
(24:17):
and that can be related to a vestibular dysfunction, although
not necessarily.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And how do you know which specialist is right for you?
Because Lisa, you're an audiologist. Denise, you are a physiotherapist,
but you can also include an eonos and throat specialist.
So when someone comes to you and says, I'm experiencing
this vertigo, this dizziness, how do you know where to start?
Speaker 4 (24:38):
It's based on the history. We're going to ask a
lot of questions. I'm going to want to know the
description of the feeling because it could be just an unsteadiness,
the world is in spinning, the person is spinning inside them,
or they have a swimmy brain. It's very common. It's
based on history, the frequency, the test results we find
in our clinic, and that will give us a pretty
(25:01):
good idea whether that person should be referred to anyanos
and thought specialist, or neurologist or kariologist or a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
So, Denise, you're a physiotherapist, how do you help people
with this condition?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
What maneuvers are you doing?
Speaker 6 (25:15):
We work really closely with the audiologists and together we
put our information together and that helps us to determine
what's happening for the person. So as a physiotherapist, we
would be looking at their balance and whether or not
the vestibular system is affecting their balance. So we have
(25:36):
a computerized dynamic postrography, which is a very flashy way
of measuring somebody's balance and how well they're using their
different senses to keep balance. So in order for us
to stay upright, we use information from our inner ear,
but also from our vision and from the sense of
our feet on the ground. When people are feeling in balance,
(25:56):
it can be any of those things that are affected,
so we're specific looking out for the things that are
affecting the vestibular system. So our assessment of balance helps
us to determine that, and then we'll treat giving exercises
to try and improve the use of that system. Sometimes
it's the brain not quite integrating and managing all that
(26:17):
information from the sensory systems well enough, so we give
exercises to help the brain kind of work out what
to do when you haven't got vision, or when your
inner ear is telling you this, but actually your feet
are telling you something different. So we design specific interventions
to help the individual with those sorts of issues, as
(26:40):
well as particular maneuvers for if somebody has this horrible
BPPV condition, so we can do a particular maneuver of
the head to move those crystals back into where they're
meant to be.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Wow, we need to talk retuns twenty twenty five on
January two, twenty seventh. But now bag to the very
best of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Because I think if you see vertigo to a lot
of people, they might think of a movie or if
you're climbing a mountain and whole I got vertigo? Is
that a different type of vertigo, Lisa, to what you're
describing today.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Yeah, I wouldn't call that vertigo.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I would call that the movie seys it's called.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
But Lisa said no, I'd say the vertigo is the
true spinning of the world. That's what we call true vertigo.
That would be an imbalance. There would be a misinformation,
some unreliable information coming from your vision and your brain's like, WHOA,
where are you? You're too high or your feet are
sinking on this snow and this high mountain that we are.
(27:45):
There's a miss message. The brain is just taking a
little time to adjust.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
And that sense of you know, when you're standing on
the high building, and that very sense of vertigo that
people talk about as vertigo, is this kind of difficulty
and perce leaving the death compared to your feet are
on the ground, But actually that looks a long way away.
So you get a slight perception of vertigo. But it's
not It doesn't fit the true definition of vertigo, which
(28:11):
is this spinning sensation.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
How debilitating can that sense of spinning be?
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Very I had an event of position of vertigo during lockdown.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You yourself had it.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Myself horrible, horrible in my respect for anyone suffering from vertigo. Oh,
it's gonna halp a few levels because it is very debilitating.
I panicked. I end up any I was filming my
eyes because I know how to read eye movement. When
you have a vertigo attack, your eyes do funny things,
(28:46):
and by looking at someone's eyes we can tell where
that vertigo is coming from. And I couldn't interpret it.
It was a weird It was the most rare version
of vertical someone could see. And I end up in
any or. I was thinking was how I'm going to
look after my children, I'm going to go to work.
It was horrible.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
How did you? How did you fix yourself?
Speaker 4 (29:08):
It ended up it was a position of vertigo. It
was a rare form. The crystals were stuck in the
very awkward position of the inner ear. I was just
banging my head and trying to free the crystals. And
when I successfully did so, then my vertigo changed the
way I was spinning, and I really recorded my eyes
(29:28):
again and then I could understand what was going on.
And then I treated myself wow with rolling my head
around and before me a maneuver called aptly. So the
inner eyear. We have three semi circular canals on each side,
so you've got six possibilities. The crystals could be floating
around six possibility. The six is three and three. Mine
(29:52):
was stuck in a small little portion of the ear,
so it was a bit of a tricky one.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, and Denny, you've had vodigo as well.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
I have.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
When did your episode Heaven?
Speaker 6 (30:04):
Oh about twenty years ago actually, so a long time
ago before we'd set up the diusiness and balance clinic,
although I was interested in vertigo academically at that time.
But I had a what's called a stibular neritis, So
it's an inflammation or infection of the nerve that supplies
the inner ear. I just had severe spinning dizziness for
about three days, where I couldn't get out of bed.
(30:26):
I had a loss of balance, and I felt nauseous
and sick, and I felt so sick. I didn't do anything.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I just lay there.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
And waited for all that to go away.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
So did it go away on its own? Or did
you have to be treated?
Speaker 6 (30:38):
So that went away on its own? Or it improves
in about three days? So the severity of the disiness
decreases significantly after about three days. But then I was
left with a little bit of dizziness. But I had
to treat myself because there wasn't any dizziness and balance
center at that time.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
And now there is, and now there is.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
It make you feel quite said that some people will
endure this for over ten years in some cases, when.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Actually they could be fixed with three sessions.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
Yeah, yeah, it is, and we try to address that.
So we do provide training for other people, and there
are other physiotherapists in particular around the country that also
provide training in how to treat some of the more
common vestibular syndromes. But there's really nowhere else in New
Zealand that has all that assessment equipment in one place.
(31:29):
So we're really lucky at our clinic to have all
the assessment equipment in one place so we can look
at diagnosis. But there are lots of physiotherapists around the
country that have particular expertise in vestibular disorders, and they
would usually advertise on their website as a vestibular physiotherapist,
so they will have some specialist training, so they're the
(31:51):
first port of call.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, it's quite hard with some of the language.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
It's quite technical, so I can see why people don't
automatically get the messaging. Lisa, what would your message to
anyone that has a dizzy or vertigo episode?
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Try not to panic, try to understand, try to describe
exactly how to try to make notes important things for us.
Duration of the attack thirty seconds, three hours, that means
completely different things. Try to video record the eye movement.
Can you trigger it? How long does it last? So
(32:26):
if it lasts thirty seconds, can you trigger it? So
rolling over in bed, can you bring it on or not?
It's just it's there for three hours, no matter what
to do, so just make notes, keep calm, make nodes.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Is there any cases where you can't cure the vertigo?
Speaker 6 (32:41):
There's lots of cases where we can't condition such as
many as disease where vertigo will come in attack. So
there'll be a big period of an attack, and then
it tends to settle down for a while, and then
there might be in a year or so another big attack.
We can't do anything during those bigtime hacks, but what
(33:01):
we can do when it's settled down is to teach
people how to manage with their balance a little bit better,
so we can provide some rehabilitation to help to manage
that condition. And I think also explaining to people what's
happening and them having an understanding about what's happening really helps.
It helps people stop panicking about what's occurring to them, which.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
No doubt makes it worse.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
And the use of drugs as well, were understanding better. Yeah, medication,
effective medication.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
What sort of medication would you give? What type?
Speaker 4 (33:31):
What's causing the vertigo? For miniears disease, for example, the
use of better hating circ I think well Virgo sixteen
would be the commercial name, high doses of it, but
needs to be managed by the eonails and float visialist.
I'm talking about in the past people being prescribed one
(33:51):
a day to now thirty three a day a day, wow,
ten three times a day. So yeah, so it's possible
to manage.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
So the Disney and Balance Center sounds like the place
to be if this is an issue for you.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So how do people denise contact you? Guys?
Speaker 6 (34:07):
We are incredibly busy. As you've heard, dizziness is really
common and so we only take referrals from your GP
or another health professional. So we get referrals from ACC,
we have referrals from the DHBs, We have referrals from
people's GPS and from other health professionals such as other
(34:29):
physiotherapists that people have gone to see.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
So if they're not aware of it, perhaps just let
them know that there is a place and get that
piece of paper. I really appreciate you both coming in
and especially given you've both had this condition before, and
hopefully for anyone listening to this, they'll now know where
to go.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Thanks for listening to the very best. We need to
talk for twenty twenty four. Subscribe to the podcast to
keep up to date when we return for twenty twenty five.
To get in touch email, we need to talk at
Coast online dot co dot MZ or follow us on Instagram,
and we need to talk with Tony Street
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