Wallabies flanker Carlo Tizzano has been overlooked for the final test against the British and Irish Lions.
Coach Joe Schmidt has revealed Tizzano has been the victim of online abuse following the controversial end to the second test, in which he’s been accused of diving.
Mental skills coach Aaron Walsh joined Piney to discuss what should be done in these situations, and how players can be looked after.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Ollaby's and the Lions clash in the third and final
test of their series in Sydney tonight. Australian loose forward
Carlo Tazzano found himself the center of attention last weekend
when he was cleaned out by Jack Morgan in the
final ruck of the game, which of course led to
the Lions winning try. Controversy raged about whether the cleanout
was legal, and Carlo Tazzano himself copped a lot of
(00:34):
blowback for what many thought was a theatrical reaction to
the contact he received from Jack Morgan. Ollaby's coach Joe
Schmidt said on Thursday that Tazano had copped a lot
of online abuse and along with the effects of the
blow to his neck, would sit the third test out.
Let's bring in vastly experienced and highly regarded performance coach
(00:58):
Aaron walshoes worked with the Chiefs, with the Newcastle Knights,
with the Scotland rugby team and many others. Aaron, thanks
for lending us your experts. It feels to me as
though Joe Schmitt is taking Carlo Tazano out of the
spotlight here because of the week he's head in terms
of the social media blowback. Is this the right move
(01:18):
by Joe Schmitt?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yes? It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because you know,
we now live in a day of age, a day
of age where you think, you know, we look back
ten fifteen years ago when these things sort of happen
and the athletes is able to crack onto it. There
might be a couple of newspaper articles. But you know,
I think in some senses, you know, if you're a
player and you're feeling this, and you know your coach
(01:43):
shows that amount of care to protect the person over
the performance, you know, I think there's a lot to
be said by the way that Joe is actually approaching it.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Do you think Carlo Tazano would have wanted to play tonight?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
So hard to say, isn't it, mate? Unless you're in
there like one, you know, we're not sure of you know,
the injury complications from a collision like that. But also
I imagine, you know, highly experienced operator and Joe that
they would have had these conversations during the week and
he may have picked up something and you know, often
the players will you know, they always want to play,
(02:17):
they always want to put their best foot forward. And
you know he may have picked up something during the week,
and you know in his mood or the way things
are being processed, that he just might thought, hey, I
need to look after this young fully. He's got a
long career ahead of him, he's a good player, and
it might be just the right thing to do at
this point of his career.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
As you say, Aaron, we're operating in a completely different
environment than we were even ten fifteen years ago. Is
it possible for a player to completely ignore online noise.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
It's an interesting one, mate, because I think, as you're aware,
you know, a lot of their social media presence just
isn't about them sharing their life or about their performance.
They of commercial obligations. So it's very easy to say
I just you know, don't have a presence, You don't
have to look for everything, don't care for it. But
you know that they may have to post a certain
number of times a week to meet you know, either
(03:12):
the team sponsors or their personal sponsors. There is you know,
I know a couple of athletes that I've worked with
over the years who have a couple of phones and
you know, they'll just go to one of their phones
two or three days out after a game, and maybe
a day out after a game, where they'll just have
their loved ones, their close family, and there'll be no
social media on it, just so they create, you know,
(03:33):
a little bit of separation, you know, fom building into
the game one and not having those voices sort of
percolating in their head. And also secondly just about the process.
I think, I think what you got to realize with
players is I sort of call it the microscope and telescope.
You know, the first twenty four hours after a game,
(03:53):
they're in microscope mode, which is, you know, everything's bigger,
everything feels bigger. They're replaying, rehashing moments of the game.
But you know, as they get further away from the performance,
they're able to step back, have prospective of look at
things and then you know, probably get a bit of
a clearer evaluation of how their performance went.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
That's a that's a terrific way of looking at it.
Often the bigger impact is on the family of the
players who find themselves in the spotlight. They might not
have two phones, you know, they might not be able
to avoid the stuff that's being said about their son,
their brother. How should family of high profile athletes deal
with this sort of thing?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
You know, it's one of those ones where, you know,
I think it's going to be a little bit different
for everyone. I know, even you know and the teams
that I work with. You get close to the players,
they become I wouldn't say like family, but they become
people you care about deeply, and you know, you just
got to it's easier to send them done. You've got
to stay away, and you know, I think you know,
one of the things that you know, Clayton McMillan, that
(04:54):
the chiefs used to talk about is, you know, you
can't just look at social media when you're going well
and then avoid it when you're going poorly. You know,
you know, now you know you're going to take both
sides of it. So if you want to engage, there's
going to be that we have to deal with the criticism.
But I you know, you hear it. It sounds a bit
of a cliche, but I don't really think it is.
Is that these players and these athletes will be much
(05:16):
harder critics on their own performance than anyone in the public.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Indeed, do you think players are on the whole when
they've had a good game, like to get online to
see what people are saying about them.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Are they humans? I probably suspect so would. It's probably
like after if you do an absolute bolch of a show,
you're probably looking at the common.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, that doesn't have it very often. That doesn't have
it very often. But no, I take your point.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
If you have a shock, you sort of want to
stay away. I think I think it's natural human instinct.
We all want to feel praised, don't we all? Don't
we all want to feel valued. We all want to
feel like, you know, our work is acknowledged. So I think,
you know, there's part of their human side that would
be naturally looking for, you know, whether it's affirmation or
support or whatever it is. I think, yeah, it's probably
(06:01):
pretty common.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
How much has the care of players improved, you know
in recent times, Aaron, you know, offer you look back
and in the old days, as they say, actually just
you know, toughen up and get out there. Care for
players is that something which has improved in recent times?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah? I reckon it's completely different right now. I think
it's one that the athletes. It's a wider question actually,
because you know, the athletes now are much more aware
of their own mental and emotional status. I think, you
know that one of the positives of social media or
you know, the world we live in now is people
aren't really afraid. And our conversations around mental health as
(06:42):
a society has given permission for people to speak about
how they feel. And so, you know, I think a
lot of it was, you know, back in the day
when I was growing up and you were growing up.
I don't know if we had the tools or we
had the experts around us to be able to process that.
And now I think every coach who's dealing with these
young athletes they have to be equipped and they have
(07:02):
to be aware that, you know, you have to care
for the person to get the best out of the performer,
and our players are so sensitive. If they don't feel
cared for it, but they don't feel like they belong,
if they don't feel like people value them beyond what
they can just do on a field, then you're not
going to get the best out of them. So I
think it's actually a competitive advantage now to create environments
(07:26):
where we actually care for people.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, that'd be a basic Yeah, absolutely, right. Just to
finish tonight is what is commonly termed a dead rubber.
The series is won by the Lions. Tonight's material as
far as that is concerned. So out challenging or not,
is it to get players up for games like this?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I think you've got to. You've got to be pretty
savvy about how you do it, you know, Like I
think good teams are driven externally. So if they're up
for a big game, and you know, we face this
all the time, and I wasn't super rugby, you know,
you got it's not hard to motivate guys for Blues
or Crusaders. But what if you play one of the
other teams that you know, on paper you should have
a pretty good chance of defeating, Well, then you've got
(08:08):
to go much more internal, which is about you know,
we've got to we've got to perform, not motivated by
the circumstance, but motivated by a desire to actually put
out a good performance and to be true to ourselves
and to hold to our values and to make sure
our standards are high. And you know, I think both
you know, from my experience of working in competitions, both
(08:28):
Andy Farrell when we played them in Ireland, and you know,
I think Joe Smith, and you know, I don't think
there'll be any problem with that. I think there's so
much on the line as far as you know, we
want to perform, to represent the teams, we want to
play for each other, We want to make sure our
fans are proud of what we put out there today.
So I don't think there'll be any issue around getting
up for a game like this.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Brilliant insight as always, Erin, Thanks so much for joining
us this afternoon, Mate, really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yep, no problem, make anytime.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
To twenty one Thanks Aaron Aaron Walsh their mental skills
and performance code.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Faine, listen live
to News Talk z B Weekend's from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Ollaby's and the Lions clash in the third and final
test of their series in Sydney tonight. Australian loose forward
Carlo Tazzano found himself the center of attention last weekend
when he was cleaned out by Jack Morgan in the
final ruck of the game, which of course led to
the Lions winning try. Controversy raged about whether the cleanout
was legal, and Carlo Tazzano himself copped a lot of
(00:34):
blowback for what many thought was a theatrical reaction to
the contact he received from Jack Morgan. Ollaby's coach Joe
Schmidt said on Thursday that Tazano had copped a lot
of online abuse and along with the effects of the
blow to his neck, would sit the third test out.
Let's bring in vastly experienced and highly regarded performance coach
(00:58):
Aaron walshoes worked with the Chiefs, with the Newcastle Knights,
with the Scotland rugby team and many others. Aaron, thanks
for lending us your experts. It feels to me as
though Joe Schmitt is taking Carlo Tazano out of the
spotlight here because of the week he's head in terms
of the social media blowback. Is this the right move
(01:18):
by Joe Schmitt?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yes? It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because you know,
we now live in a day of age, a day
of age where you think, you know, we look back
ten fifteen years ago when these things sort of happen
and the athletes is able to crack onto it. There
might be a couple of newspaper articles. But you know,
I think in some senses, you know, if you're a
player and you're feeling this, and you know your coach
(01:43):
shows that amount of care to protect the person over
the performance, you know, I think there's a lot to
be said by the way that Joe is actually approaching it.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Do you think Carlo Tazano would have wanted to play tonight?
Speaker 3 (01:57):
So hard to say, isn't it, mate? Unless you're in
there like one, you know, we're not sure of you know,
the injury complications from a collision like that. But also
I imagine, you know, highly experienced operator and Joe that
they would have had these conversations during the week and
he may have picked up something and you know, often
the players will you know, they always want to play,
(02:17):
they always want to put their best foot forward. And
you know he may have picked up something during the week,
and you know in his mood or the way things
are being processed, that he just might thought, hey, I
need to look after this young fully. He's got a
long career ahead of him, he's a good player, and
it might be just the right thing to do at
this point of his career.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
As you say, Aaron, we're operating in a completely different
environment than we were even ten fifteen years ago. Is
it possible for a player to completely ignore online noise.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
It's an interesting one, mate, because I think, as you're aware,
you know, a lot of their social media presence just
isn't about them sharing their life or about their performance.
They of commercial obligations. So it's very easy to say
I just you know, don't have a presence, You don't
have to look for everything, don't care for it. But
you know that they may have to post a certain
number of times a week to meet you know, either
(03:12):
the team sponsors or their personal sponsors. There is you know,
I know a couple of athletes that I've worked with
over the years who have a couple of phones and
you know, they'll just go to one of their phones
two or three days out after a game, and maybe
a day out after a game, where they'll just have
their loved ones, their close family, and there'll be no
social media on it, just so they create, you know,
(03:33):
a little bit of separation, you know, fom building into
the game one and not having those voices sort of
percolating in their head. And also secondly just about the process.
I think, I think what you got to realize with
players is I sort of call it the microscope and telescope.
You know, the first twenty four hours after a game,
(03:53):
they're in microscope mode, which is, you know, everything's bigger,
everything feels bigger. They're replaying, rehashing moments of the game.
But you know, as they get further away from the performance,
they're able to step back, have prospective of look at
things and then you know, probably get a bit of
a clearer evaluation of how their performance went.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
That's a that's a terrific way of looking at it.
Often the bigger impact is on the family of the
players who find themselves in the spotlight. They might not
have two phones, you know, they might not be able
to avoid the stuff that's being said about their son,
their brother. How should family of high profile athletes deal
with this sort of thing?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
You know, it's one of those ones where, you know,
I think it's going to be a little bit different
for everyone. I know, even you know and the teams
that I work with. You get close to the players,
they become I wouldn't say like family, but they become
people you care about deeply, and you know, you just
got to it's easier to send them done. You've got
to stay away, and you know, I think you know,
one of the things that you know, Clayton McMillan, that
(04:54):
the chiefs used to talk about is, you know, you
can't just look at social media when you're going well
and then avoid it when you're going poorly. You know,
you know, now you know you're going to take both
sides of it. So if you want to engage, there's
going to be that we have to deal with the criticism.
But I you know, you hear it. It sounds a bit
of a cliche, but I don't really think it is.
Is that these players and these athletes will be much
(05:16):
harder critics on their own performance than anyone in the public.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Indeed, do you think players are on the whole when
they've had a good game, like to get online to
see what people are saying about them.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Are they humans? I probably suspect so would. It's probably
like after if you do an absolute bolch of a show,
you're probably looking at the common.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, that doesn't have it very often. That doesn't have
it very often. But no, I take your point.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
If you have a shock, you sort of want to
stay away. I think I think it's natural human instinct.
We all want to feel praised, don't we all? Don't
we all want to feel valued. We all want to
feel like, you know, our work is acknowledged. So I think,
you know, there's part of their human side that would
be naturally looking for, you know, whether it's affirmation or
support or whatever it is. I think, yeah, it's probably
(06:01):
pretty common.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
How much has the care of players improved, you know
in recent times, Aaron, you know, offer you look back
and in the old days, as they say, actually just
you know, toughen up and get out there. Care for
players is that something which has improved in recent times?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah? I reckon it's completely different right now. I think
it's one that the athletes. It's a wider question actually,
because you know, the athletes now are much more aware
of their own mental and emotional status. I think, you
know that one of the positives of social media or
you know, the world we live in now is people
aren't really afraid. And our conversations around mental health as
(06:42):
a society has given permission for people to speak about
how they feel. And so, you know, I think a
lot of it was, you know, back in the day
when I was growing up and you were growing up.
I don't know if we had the tools or we
had the experts around us to be able to process that.
And now I think every coach who's dealing with these
young athletes they have to be equipped and they have
(07:02):
to be aware that, you know, you have to care
for the person to get the best out of the performer,
and our players are so sensitive. If they don't feel
cared for it, but they don't feel like they belong,
if they don't feel like people value them beyond what
they can just do on a field, then you're not
going to get the best out of them. So I
think it's actually a competitive advantage now to create environments
(07:26):
where we actually care for people.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, that'd be a basic Yeah, absolutely, right. Just to
finish tonight is what is commonly termed a dead rubber.
The series is won by the Lions. Tonight's material as
far as that is concerned. So out challenging or not,
is it to get players up for games like this?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I think you've got to. You've got to be pretty
savvy about how you do it, you know, Like I
think good teams are driven externally. So if they're up
for a big game, and you know, we face this
all the time, and I wasn't super rugby, you know,
you got it's not hard to motivate guys for Blues
or Crusaders. But what if you play one of the
other teams that you know, on paper you should have
a pretty good chance of defeating, Well, then you've got
(08:08):
to go much more internal, which is about you know,
we've got to we've got to perform, not motivated by
the circumstance, but motivated by a desire to actually put
out a good performance and to be true to ourselves
and to hold to our values and to make sure
our standards are high. And you know, I think both
you know, from my experience of working in competitions, both
(08:28):
Andy Farrell when we played them in Ireland, and you know,
I think Joe Smith, and you know, I don't think
there'll be any problem with that. I think there's so
much on the line as far as you know, we
want to perform, to represent the teams, we want to
play for each other, We want to make sure our
fans are proud of what we put out there today.
So I don't think there'll be any issue around getting
up for a game like this.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Brilliant insight as always, Erin, Thanks so much for joining
us this afternoon, Mate, really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yep, no problem, make anytime.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
To twenty one Thanks Aaron Aaron Walsh their mental skills
and performance code.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Faine, listen live
to News Talk z B Weekend's from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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