Alix Popham: Former Rugby player and co-founder of Head for Change on the passing of Shane Christie.
August 30, 2025 • 14 mins
Former rugby player Shane Christie passed away earlier this week, and the international rugby community is in mourning.
Former Welsh Rugby player and co-founder of Head for Change Alix Popham said he was angry at the Players Association CEO Rob Nichol for downplaying the severity of CTE in Rugby in the build up to Christie's passing.
‘[Rob Nichol] is supposed to be there to look after the players, not gaslighting this situation and downplaying the seriousness of it’
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Very very sad news this week with the passing of
former New Zealand Malty Highlanders and Tasman flanker Shane Christie
at the age of just thirty nine. He played seventy
three times for Tasman and captain the markov for four seasons,
leading them to their maiden title in twenty thirteen. He
also played twenty nine times for the Highlanders, including being
(00:35):
co captain of their twenty fifteen Super Rugby winning team,
and he earned eight caps for New Zealand Malti. Shane
Christie's playing career ended in twenty seventeen when he began
experiencing serious concussion symptoms. After his retirement from the game,
he said he believed he was suffering from CTE, a
(00:55):
neurodegenerative brain condition, having experienced symptoms including headaches, speech and
memory issues, depression and mood swings. He had been a
vocal advocate for greater awareness about rugby related head injuries.
Alex Popham is a former Welsh international rugby player. Thirty
three caps for Wales. He played in the two thousand
(01:17):
and three and two thousand and seven Rugby World Cups,
and was a Grand Slam winner in two thousand and eight.
He retired in twenty eleven, and in April of twenty twenty,
Alex Popham was diagnosed with probable CTE and early onset
dementia as a result of traumatic brain injuries suffered during
his rugby career. He is the co founder of Head
(01:39):
four Change, a charity pioneering positive change to prioritize brain
health in sport. They also support ex players who are
effective by affected rather by neuro degenerative disease as a
result of playing contact sport. Alex Popham is with US. Alex,
thanks for joining us. How did you hear of the
death of Shane Christy Well?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I woke upon Wednesday morning with mass from Carl Haman.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And yeah, I just rung him straight away.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
It's been a very tough week and yeah, feel pretty
numb if I'm miss with all of this, and it's
very very hard.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
As I say, you've been a vocal advocate for greater
awareness around rugby related head injuries. I'm sure as you
say when you heard from Carl Hayman, I'm sure that
wasn't the only message you've received. What have the last
few days been like for you?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, it's been really tough and just just hearing all
the and reading all the lovers of port. For Shane,
it's just such a stop myself from swearing. But I'm
just angry with this situation still still carrying on. He
was such a eloquent guy speaking. He spoke softly, but
(03:02):
he spoke with real meaning and what's gone on with
him over the last few years and putting this message
out there and I really think it come to its
head where three weeks ago, four weeks ago he released
the recording of the CEO, Rob Nickel of the Players Association,
(03:24):
who's supposed to be there to look after the players,
gaslight in this situation and downplaying the seriousness of it.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
He was hoping that would be picked.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Up that recording of telling the current players that it's
down to the alcohol of the boys that are drinking
too many drugs, the lifestyle and all that rubbish and
really and then turning around and saying that rugby is
safer than soccer. It's just a load of rubbish. And really,
(03:54):
for me, I think Shane thought that that was going
to be picked up, and it wasn't. Now he's dead.
Now we're talking about it, and that is just the
wrong way round. This needs to get out there to
the current players, to the mums and dads, to the coaches,
because there's.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Too many young men and women.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I sat appearances we've lost their child with this situation
because I've had traumatic brain energy from rugby and we're
not taking it serious enough. We're telling my votes. I'm
angry because this man put his life on hold for
the last three years and no one was listening.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I would I see you use a lot is denial
denial by the game's governing bodies. What do you want
to see from them?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Well, what's happening now in rugby it's legal denial to
what happened in the NFL. They're playing exactly the same
playbook the NFL did with their lawyers, with the governing bodies,
and they can't make the changes that need to be
made because legally, because of the legal case in the
UK that opens up a can of they know every hit,
(05:08):
every contact, not just to the head, is causing small
amount of damage to the brain and that over player's career,
resulting in CTE so the big changes and mostly off
the pitch from limiting the amount of contacts in training,
but made that mandatory when there is a traumatic brain
injury and that player's being diagnosed, not rushing them back
(05:31):
in six bloody days. They need a good twenty eight
days for that brain to recover. But there's a protocol
that fits that. There's six steps that fits into six
days that these players don't miss a game. And you've
got rugby boys and rugby women who were warriors, who
were gladiators and want to be on that pitch. That
power needs to be taken out of their hands. The
(05:54):
other things that we would like is limit on game
time and annual medical scans that would pick up at
the damage to the brain from the previous season. I
think having those things in and they're checking out gimmicks
with bloody gum shields and this and that, it's all
(06:15):
smoke and mirrors to what really is happening.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Well, you mentioned the smart mouth guards there and a
roundabout way trials of a lower techle heightened community rugby
world rugby side. They are putting measures in place to
alleviate the effects. You don't believe that there's anywhere near enough.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
No, nowhere near.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
The good thing from it, we're talking about it. It's
getting out there, it's educating mums and dads, it's educating
people about this serious issue.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
But the gum shields.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
They've chosen, they've gone with the manufacturer that doesn't show
all the hits. So those gum shields stop recording at
seventy g. There was another manufacturer that Harlequins were using
and record over so show the full picture, but that
was too damn into the game of rugby because a
car crash was happening every single game.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
To most players, as.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
You say, Alex, these are warriors, the men and women
who go out and play rugby, and not just those
at elite level, but everybody who plays the sport. You know,
they enjoy the physicality of it. And I'm sure Mini
downplay the effects of hid knocks in order to be
able to play the following week. What can we do
about that?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
In need again, it needs to be taken out of
their hands. So other sports that are very physical as well,
and so boxing the same injury in boxing you can't
step back in that ring for three months. I'm not
saying three months for rugby, but let's take it serious.
Let's give it the respect it needs and give it
the twenty eight days. Most of the changes we want
(07:50):
and guidelines put in place. They're off the pitch to
Monday and Friday. We can have our gladiator spectacle on
a match day, but we take that as rugby players,
but they need to be looked after during the week
when there has been a traumatic brain injury. The length
(08:10):
of the season, the number of games they're playing, all
of this, you've got to look at the brain as
like the mileage on a car. These miles on these boys'
brains and women's brains is.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Just racking up and we need to reduce it massively.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Do you think player attitudes are changing, Alex? Do you
think there's a great realization among current players, those who
are still playing the game, you know, of the long
term fix that they could potentially face.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yeah, I think it is getting better.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
We saw it in the Lions series with Gary Ringrose
who poured himself from a from a test match, and.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
That that was very brave of Gary.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
But I'd say ninety five percent of the players wouldn't
wouldn't do that because they wouldn't know if that situation
would would come up again and play for such in
such a big game.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
So I think.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Players off the record are speaking to me, but they're
not allowed to go on the record. They're not allowed
to talk talk publicly on this issue because it puts
the game in a bad light. And that's a tough one.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
It's a tough position to be in.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
How optimistic do you feel or not that change will
come and will come from the top.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Well, I I don't think change will come until the
legal fight is over. The changes I've I've been fighting
this now for over five years, and the changes that
have been made, the smoke a mirror, the pr stunts
that they're they're checking out that they really care. If
they really cared, you wouldn't have your CEO of the
(09:53):
players Association, who's supposed to be looking after these players,
going around gas lighting this situation. There's thousands of players
in New Zealand that are struggling. There's four all blacks
who are part of the legal case. There's boys who
have played over here and not to all black level
were part of the legal case and their brains are
damaged from rugby. So until that is resolved, I don't
(10:17):
think any real change will happen.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
And you talk of the of the legal challenge. Eleven
hundred players have joined the lawsuit against the RIFU, the
Welsh Rugby Union World Rugby. Is that case still on
track to potentially go to trial next year?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Well, we hope so the can keeps getting kicked down
the road from the other side and dragging it out
and chucking mud at not really important information and hoping
we run out of money as a as a as
a legal team or our legal team does.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
But that's my understanding. It's been a long time.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
We just want to be able to support There's I
say a lot. There's there's some real drastic situations where
boys have lost everything, their.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Marriage is that they're home.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Had a phone call last last month with somebody was
washing himself and is closed in a stream because he
had nowhere to go. We ended up and we managed
to get him cetemporary accommodation.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
But it shouldn't be in this situation.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
It's a sobering, sobering topic of conversation. Indeed, Alex appreciate
you're joining us. Do you have a message for our
listeners here in New Zealand, the rugby public here in
New Zealand and the loving rugby.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
But I still love rugby. We can still make this
game a special game. Carry on, but just in a
safer way. I really appreciate you having me on. It's
not a topic that is hard. It is hard to
talk about this exposure and telling the truth. This is
what Shane did and what we will carry on.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
All the beast to you, Alex, thanks for your time today.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That is Alex Popham, former Welsh International co founder of
Head for Change. Now, I know this is a pretty
heavy subject, but it's an important one to discuss and
to keep in the light, not in the shadows. In
very simple terms, the time for denial is over, much
as it is a confronting conversation to have. We must
(12:26):
now accept the irrefutable link between collision sport and the
long term effects of traumatic head injury on the players
and those closest to them. You will never remove the
physical element from rugby, and no one wants to. That's
not what this is about. The physical battle is one
of the things that makes the sport what it is,
(12:47):
why we love to watch it, why millions of people
around the world want to play it. But the long
term effects of head collisions needs to be unequivocally understood
and mitigated in any way possible. We need actual, quantifiable
change from those in charge of the game. You heard
some suggestion there from Alex Poppham. Mandatory standdowns must be longer,
(13:12):
Full contact trainings need to be reduced. To be honest,
players probably need to play fewer games, and decisions need
to be taken out of the player's hands because I'm
almost certain there's a feeling among many of our top
players that they would rather return to play as soon
as possible. And that's entirely natural. Who doesn't want to play.
(13:36):
Who wants to miss important matches? No one in the
professional era when this is their job. Who wants to
give up their spot to somebody else? Nobody? But at
what cost? When Billy Giton died, we said something had
to be done. Shane Christy tried to bring the issue
into the spotlight, but he came up against brick walls
(13:56):
and resistance, and I count many of us in the
media in that group that preferred to look the other way,
preferred to ignore some of the inconvenient truths of this issue.
Shane Christy wasn't the easiest guy to listen to, but
he needed to be listened to and now he can't be.
(14:18):
So what do we just wait for the next one
now or do we take action now?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Very very sad news this week with the passing of
former New Zealand Malty Highlanders and Tasman flanker Shane Christie
at the age of just thirty nine. He played seventy
three times for Tasman and captain the markov for four seasons,
leading them to their maiden title in twenty thirteen. He
also played twenty nine times for the Highlanders, including being
(00:35):
co captain of their twenty fifteen Super Rugby winning team,
and he earned eight caps for New Zealand Malti. Shane
Christie's playing career ended in twenty seventeen when he began
experiencing serious concussion symptoms. After his retirement from the game,
he said he believed he was suffering from CTE, a
(00:55):
neurodegenerative brain condition, having experienced symptoms including headaches, speech and
memory issues, depression and mood swings. He had been a
vocal advocate for greater awareness about rugby related head injuries.
Alex Popham is a former Welsh international rugby player. Thirty
three caps for Wales. He played in the two thousand
(01:17):
and three and two thousand and seven Rugby World Cups,
and was a Grand Slam winner in two thousand and eight.
He retired in twenty eleven, and in April of twenty twenty,
Alex Popham was diagnosed with probable CTE and early onset
dementia as a result of traumatic brain injuries suffered during
his rugby career. He is the co founder of Head
(01:39):
four Change, a charity pioneering positive change to prioritize brain
health in sport. They also support ex players who are
effective by affected rather by neuro degenerative disease as a
result of playing contact sport. Alex Popham is with US. Alex,
thanks for joining us. How did you hear of the
death of Shane Christy Well?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I woke upon Wednesday morning with mass from Carl Haman.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And yeah, I just rung him straight away.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
It's been a very tough week and yeah, feel pretty
numb if I'm miss with all of this, and it's
very very hard.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
As I say, you've been a vocal advocate for greater
awareness around rugby related head injuries. I'm sure as you
say when you heard from Carl Hayman, I'm sure that
wasn't the only message you've received. What have the last
few days been like for you?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, it's been really tough and just just hearing all
the and reading all the lovers of port. For Shane,
it's just such a stop myself from swearing. But I'm
just angry with this situation still still carrying on. He
was such a eloquent guy speaking. He spoke softly, but
(03:02):
he spoke with real meaning and what's gone on with
him over the last few years and putting this message
out there and I really think it come to its
head where three weeks ago, four weeks ago he released
the recording of the CEO, Rob Nickel of the Players Association,
(03:24):
who's supposed to be there to look after the players,
gaslight in this situation and downplaying the seriousness of it.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
He was hoping that would be picked.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Up that recording of telling the current players that it's
down to the alcohol of the boys that are drinking
too many drugs, the lifestyle and all that rubbish and
really and then turning around and saying that rugby is
safer than soccer. It's just a load of rubbish. And really,
(03:54):
for me, I think Shane thought that that was going
to be picked up, and it wasn't. Now he's dead.
Now we're talking about it, and that is just the
wrong way round. This needs to get out there to
the current players, to the mums and dads, to the coaches,
because there's.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Too many young men and women.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I sat appearances we've lost their child with this situation
because I've had traumatic brain energy from rugby and we're
not taking it serious enough. We're telling my votes. I'm
angry because this man put his life on hold for
the last three years and no one was listening.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I would I see you use a lot is denial
denial by the game's governing bodies. What do you want
to see from them?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Well, what's happening now in rugby it's legal denial to
what happened in the NFL. They're playing exactly the same
playbook the NFL did with their lawyers, with the governing bodies,
and they can't make the changes that need to be
made because legally, because of the legal case in the
UK that opens up a can of they know every hit,
(05:08):
every contact, not just to the head, is causing small
amount of damage to the brain and that over player's career,
resulting in CTE so the big changes and mostly off
the pitch from limiting the amount of contacts in training,
but made that mandatory when there is a traumatic brain
injury and that player's being diagnosed, not rushing them back
(05:31):
in six bloody days. They need a good twenty eight
days for that brain to recover. But there's a protocol
that fits that. There's six steps that fits into six
days that these players don't miss a game. And you've
got rugby boys and rugby women who were warriors, who
were gladiators and want to be on that pitch. That
power needs to be taken out of their hands. The
(05:54):
other things that we would like is limit on game
time and annual medical scans that would pick up at
the damage to the brain from the previous season. I
think having those things in and they're checking out gimmicks
with bloody gum shields and this and that, it's all
(06:15):
smoke and mirrors to what really is happening.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Well, you mentioned the smart mouth guards there and a
roundabout way trials of a lower techle heightened community rugby
world rugby side. They are putting measures in place to
alleviate the effects. You don't believe that there's anywhere near enough.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
No, nowhere near.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
The good thing from it, we're talking about it. It's
getting out there, it's educating mums and dads, it's educating
people about this serious issue.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
But the gum shields.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
They've chosen, they've gone with the manufacturer that doesn't show
all the hits. So those gum shields stop recording at
seventy g. There was another manufacturer that Harlequins were using
and record over so show the full picture, but that
was too damn into the game of rugby because a
car crash was happening every single game.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
To most players, as.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
You say, Alex, these are warriors, the men and women
who go out and play rugby, and not just those
at elite level, but everybody who plays the sport. You know,
they enjoy the physicality of it. And I'm sure Mini
downplay the effects of hid knocks in order to be
able to play the following week. What can we do
about that?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
In need again, it needs to be taken out of
their hands. So other sports that are very physical as well,
and so boxing the same injury in boxing you can't
step back in that ring for three months. I'm not
saying three months for rugby, but let's take it serious.
Let's give it the respect it needs and give it
the twenty eight days. Most of the changes we want
(07:50):
and guidelines put in place. They're off the pitch to
Monday and Friday. We can have our gladiator spectacle on
a match day, but we take that as rugby players,
but they need to be looked after during the week
when there has been a traumatic brain injury. The length
(08:10):
of the season, the number of games they're playing, all
of this, you've got to look at the brain as
like the mileage on a car. These miles on these boys'
brains and women's brains is.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Just racking up and we need to reduce it massively.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Do you think player attitudes are changing, Alex? Do you
think there's a great realization among current players, those who
are still playing the game, you know, of the long
term fix that they could potentially face.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yeah, I think it is getting better.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
We saw it in the Lions series with Gary Ringrose
who poured himself from a from a test match, and.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
That that was very brave of Gary.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
But I'd say ninety five percent of the players wouldn't
wouldn't do that because they wouldn't know if that situation
would would come up again and play for such in
such a big game.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
So I think.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Players off the record are speaking to me, but they're
not allowed to go on the record. They're not allowed
to talk talk publicly on this issue because it puts
the game in a bad light. And that's a tough one.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
It's a tough position to be in.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
How optimistic do you feel or not that change will
come and will come from the top.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Well, I I don't think change will come until the
legal fight is over. The changes I've I've been fighting
this now for over five years, and the changes that
have been made, the smoke a mirror, the pr stunts
that they're they're checking out that they really care. If
they really cared, you wouldn't have your CEO of the
(09:53):
players Association, who's supposed to be looking after these players,
going around gas lighting this situation. There's thousands of players
in New Zealand that are struggling. There's four all blacks
who are part of the legal case. There's boys who
have played over here and not to all black level
were part of the legal case and their brains are
damaged from rugby. So until that is resolved, I don't
(10:17):
think any real change will happen.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
And you talk of the of the legal challenge. Eleven
hundred players have joined the lawsuit against the RIFU, the
Welsh Rugby Union World Rugby. Is that case still on
track to potentially go to trial next year?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Well, we hope so the can keeps getting kicked down
the road from the other side and dragging it out
and chucking mud at not really important information and hoping
we run out of money as a as a as
a legal team or our legal team does.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
But that's my understanding. It's been a long time.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
We just want to be able to support There's I
say a lot. There's there's some real drastic situations where
boys have lost everything, their.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Marriage is that they're home.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Had a phone call last last month with somebody was
washing himself and is closed in a stream because he
had nowhere to go. We ended up and we managed
to get him cetemporary accommodation.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
But it shouldn't be in this situation.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
It's a sobering, sobering topic of conversation. Indeed, Alex appreciate
you're joining us. Do you have a message for our
listeners here in New Zealand, the rugby public here in
New Zealand and the loving rugby.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
But I still love rugby. We can still make this
game a special game. Carry on, but just in a
safer way. I really appreciate you having me on. It's
not a topic that is hard. It is hard to
talk about this exposure and telling the truth. This is
what Shane did and what we will carry on.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
All the beast to you, Alex, thanks for your time today.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That is Alex Popham, former Welsh International co founder of
Head for Change. Now, I know this is a pretty
heavy subject, but it's an important one to discuss and
to keep in the light, not in the shadows. In
very simple terms, the time for denial is over, much
as it is a confronting conversation to have. We must
(12:26):
now accept the irrefutable link between collision sport and the
long term effects of traumatic head injury on the players
and those closest to them. You will never remove the
physical element from rugby, and no one wants to. That's
not what this is about. The physical battle is one
of the things that makes the sport what it is,
(12:47):
why we love to watch it, why millions of people
around the world want to play it. But the long
term effects of head collisions needs to be unequivocally understood
and mitigated in any way possible. We need actual, quantifiable
change from those in charge of the game. You heard
some suggestion there from Alex Poppham. Mandatory standdowns must be longer,
(13:12):
Full contact trainings need to be reduced. To be honest,
players probably need to play fewer games, and decisions need
to be taken out of the player's hands because I'm
almost certain there's a feeling among many of our top
players that they would rather return to play as soon
as possible. And that's entirely natural. Who doesn't want to play.
(13:36):
Who wants to miss important matches? No one in the
professional era when this is their job. Who wants to
give up their spot to somebody else? Nobody? But at
what cost? When Billy Giton died, we said something had
to be done. Shane Christy tried to bring the issue
into the spotlight, but he came up against brick walls
(13:56):
and resistance, and I count many of us in the
media in that group that preferred to look the other way,
preferred to ignore some of the inconvenient truths of this issue.
Shane Christy wasn't the easiest guy to listen to, but
he needed to be listened to and now he can't be.
(14:18):
So what do we just wait for the next one
now or do we take action now?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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