Anthony Drake: Employment law expert at Tavendale + Partners on the situation with Dame Noeline Taurua

There’s still no clarity in the ongoing saga of the Silver Ferns and Dame Noeline Taurua. 

Taurua was stoof down as coach on the 10th of September, and despite days of mediation, no decision has been made to whether she’ll be reinstated. 

Partner at Tavendale + Partners, employment law expert Anthony Drake joined Piney to give an insight into the mediation process. 

Drake told Jason Pine that since it’s such a high-profile game and situation, it would probably be helpful for Netball New Zealand to reveal what the concerns are, and whether they think they can be worked through. 

He says we’re talking about a national team and a high-performance environment, and since all parties are in the public eye, it would be helpful to have an insight into what the concerns are.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
There's still no clarity in the ongoing saga of the
Silver Ferns and coach Dame Nolen Toda. Despite days of
mediation between the World Cup winning coach and Netball New Zealand,
there's still no decision over whether she'll be reinstated. You'll remember,
of course, Dave Nolen was stood down as coach. That
happened on the tenth of September, with Netburn New Zealand

(00:35):
citing issues in the team's high performance environment. That left
New Zealand to play South Africa in the Tiny Jamerson
Series under interim coaches Avett McCausland, Jury and Leanna Liota.
They did a good job. New Zealand won that series
three nil. Now though they have a much tougher assignment looming.
The Silver Ferns are due to go into camp on
Monday to prepare for the four test Constellation Cup series

(00:59):
against Australia. The first game in that four test series
is in Melbourne on Friday weeks so it is less
than two weeks away. Let's get you some insight into
the mediation process that is playing out here. Anthony Drake
is partner at leading law firm Taverndale and Partners. He

(01:20):
has more than twenty five years specialist experience in employment
law and is a nationally recognized expert in employment related
issues and disputes. Anthony, thanks for joining us to try
and give us some insight here. This seems to have
taken a long time. Is that normal in employment disputes.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Well, there's a process that the parties need to go through,
of course, and clearly in this case there's a lot
more to be discussed. But at this point we actually
don't know what the issues are and I guess it's
not terribly helpful to speculate. Would be rather more helpful

(02:02):
of Netball New Zealand told us what the concerns are
and whether they can be worked through.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
So it's your view then that they should have been
a bit more transparent and said, Okay, here are the
issues ABC, here's what we're working through. They're not duty
bound to do that, of course, but you think that
would have been helpful in this case.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
I think we're talking about a national team and it's
a little different in these situations where you've got parties
that are in the public eye. Whilst there's a lot
of similarities with the corporate world, this is slightly difference
as a high performance environment. Both employees are both Dame

(02:48):
Nolen and the players and the public eye. And this
matter has gone on for quite some time now, so
it would be helpful to have some insight as to
what those concerns are.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
The longer the discussions go on, there's a resolution in
your experience, less likely or more likely with a lengthy process.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Well, as I sort of saying that, there's a process
to work through, and clearly it's taking its time, and
it's just an indication of how difficult the situation has become.
Whether it's resolvable now, you know, I can't really speculate
on that. Hopefully it can be resolved to everybody's satisfaction.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
How do you keep emotion out of employment disputes and
keep the discussions fact based.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Well, I don't think you can. I don't think you
can keep emotions out. And as I sort of said,
this involves a game that's both the coach, the players,
the public love, and it's incredibly difficult. There are no
facts for which anybody can respond to at the moment
but you know that I don't just honestly don't think

(04:04):
we can keep those emotions out of this.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
So what's the best way to navigate it? Then, Anthony, Now,
I'm sure you've said in on mediations where emotions are
running high in an employment disputes, how do you how
do you take the take the fizz out of situations
like that? What's the what's the best way of doing that?

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Generally a very calm approach to these sort of issues.
There's obviously a lot to talk about, and what we
have learned so far is there are different views from
the media. Karen Berger sort of said, well, everybody has
a different experience. We saw Grace Wecki speak on Saturday Night. Well,

(04:46):
she has a different experience to some of the others.
So these are complicated issues to navigate.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
In the situation. The organization nep on New Zealand appoints
the coach, the coaches in charge of selecting the players,
but presumably the players are also employees of Netball New Zealand.
I guess a lot of people are asking Anthony, why
wouldn't Netball New Zealand just back their coach. She's the
one who they've appointed to run the high performance program.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Well, you're quite right, Jason Dame Noley is an employee,
the players are employees, and net new Netball New Zealand
has an obligation to resolve the problem, whatever that problem is,
and it needs to do that in an active and
constructive way so it can maintain those relationships. So, whether

(05:40):
that's to back the coach, whether it's to back the players,
they've got duties to both sides here to try and
resolve it.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
In a situation like this, let's talk hypothetical here. Let's
say hypothetically, you know, one possible outcome here is that
Dave Nolin is exonerated and she's back as as head
coach of the Silver Ferns. Isn't that still an awkward
situation to navigate with her knowing that there are, you know,
potentially members of the team who didn't want her to

(06:09):
be coached.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Oh, there's an enormous problem here. It's disruptive to the environment,
it's disruptive to the culture of the team. So there's
an enormous amount of work to be done. So they
both have all common goals going forward.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
How common is finding a solution in situations like that
that allows parties who have been in dispute to continue
working together and working harmoniously together.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
In my experience, it's incredibly difficult and rare.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Wow. Okay, So I mean, I know we can't talk
specifics here, Anthony, but I mean, what's your what? What?
What should we think about all this? Should we expect
Dane Noline to come back, should we expect there'll be
some clunkiness here?

Speaker 3 (06:58):
What?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
What is your best guess as to what's going to
play out here?

Speaker 3 (07:03):
I don't think it's helpful for me to speculate on
there that this. Obviously discussions are on going between the cardis,
so it's very difficult to say.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
And and this could still drag on for a bit.
I mean, we've got we've got a format series coming
up in less than two weeks. It doesn't feel as
though this is going to be resolved. We're here at
the weekend, and so clearly I guess they take a
break over the weekend, they start again on Monday. The
teams meant to be selected on Monday, So you know,
can these things drag on? Could this drag on for
more days? For weeks?

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Even yes my experience, they sometimes do regrettably there's no
easy solution here.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, it's it's something that continues to I guess hog
the headlines when really all we want to be doing
is netwall fans is watching the Silver Ferns play Australia, Anthony,
anything else to add that might have a bit of
context or a bit of clarity to our listeners as
we search for some shred of hope here.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Well, as I sort of said, I think it might
be helpful for Netball New Zealand to come out and
say what the concerns are and whether they think that
they can be worked through.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, we've asked them a number of times. They don't
seem particularly keen on doing that. Anthony, thank you for
your time and expertise this afternoon. I guess we just
wait and see what plays out here. Appreciate you lending
us your expertise today.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
And good luck to the team.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yep, good luck, good luck to the team. Indeed, Anthony,
in more ways than one, thank you for joining us.
Anthony Drake, partner at leading law firm Taverndale and Partners,
with twenty five years plus of specialist experience in employment law.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
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