November 29, 2024 • 11 mins
A feud is developing between the A-League players and the League itself. The Australian Professional Footballers association released a survey that shows half the A-League Men's players are dissatisfied with how the league is run and 46% of players have low trust in the managements ability to improve the league.
APFA CEO Beau Busch joins the show to discuss why the players think this way and what the A-League needs to do to win back the trust of the players.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
To Football at eleven after two on Weekend Sport. Interesting
survey out this week. Half of the eight league men's
players are dissatisfied with the running of the league. Twenty
seven percent very dissatisfied with how the Australian professional leagues
are performing in their management of the competition. Forty six
(00:33):
percent have low trust in their ability to improve the league.
Only eleven percent have a high trust level in the
managing body. So as things look rather rosie on this
side of the Tasman around all clind FC and the
Wellington Phoenix across the competition as a whole, it's not
tracking that well. Joining us to discuss more is the
(00:53):
professional Football is Australia CO Chief executive Bo bush Bow.
Thanks for your time here on news Talk ZBB this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Thanks so much for having me on. Much appreciated well.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Stats released during the week. Half of all a league
men's players dissatisfied with how the league is managed, according
to a survey that the players Union have run. It's
a philly, damning headline that screams out from the news outlets,
isn't it bo I.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Think, Look, the starting point for the players was that
to have a thriving a league we need to have
a really effective relationship with the APL to be able
to rebuild the sport to get it to where we
know it can be both in Australia and New Zealand.
And this sort of really clarifies the scale of the
challenges that we've got that there needs to be a
significant improvement that the players feel like their expertise and
(01:40):
their voice isn't able to be exerted in an influential
way around the governance of the sport to help but
make better decisions. So this sort of really clarifies what
it looks like when it's not working. And the hope
is that this can be a starting point and if
we do this survey at the end of the next
year see significant improvement.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
What are the frustrations then that the players have with
the way that the league is being managed.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Well, I think if you look at the last few years,
and particularly the New Zealand players, our Wellington players went
through enormous sacrifices to be able to ensure that the
sport could get through COVID and the hope is that
there would be better times around the horizon. The players
entered into a long term collective bargaining agreement with the
APL and the hope was that that would give the
game a platform to really stabilize its financial basis, and
(02:26):
unfortunately that hasn't happened. There's been significant investment into areas
such as keep Up, only for that to be closed down.
We've seen a lot of uncertainty around the private equity
investment where that's gone, where it's been invested, when and
if that needs to be paid back. So these are
all really important questions that the players currently don't have
(02:46):
clarity over and importantly, their decisions that have a massive
impact on the players, but equally they had very little
say over them as well.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I guess this doesn't happen overnight, does it? And as
you mentioned it, the COVID issue has snowboard over the
last few years. Has these things been fistering for a
while in terms of the players, I.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Think a little bit of both. So what's sort of happened?
As I said that the players had made these enormous
sacrifices and the challenge was, okay, let's get the sport
through COVID and let's hope for better times on the
other side and hope that we've done a collective bargaining
agreement that goes far enough to do that. Now, we've
seen some really positive stuff. So we've seen positive stuff
around the production of young players for examples, and really
(03:29):
outstanding coaches coming through the investment into academies, you know,
the emergence of Auckland, So that's sort of all positive.
But then we've seen this decision making around the Grand
Final and the like that we really think is not
optimal and that's put the sport in a really difficult position.
So that's sort of where it's compounding range of factors
and just feeling that the sport doesn't have this clarity
(03:49):
at the moment around where it's headed and how it's
going to ensure it's successful. So that's really where the
player's frustration mainly lies, about the moment around a lack
of certainty over where we're heading.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Because if you look at it from a New Zealand perspective,
new team and the competition and theory, if you're looking
at from the outside and from a new he's the
lily perspective, everything on this side of the Tasman seems
rather rosy, but that's not the case.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Well Look, I think sort of two things can be true.
At the same time. The emergence of Auckland to come
into the competition has been a huge positive, alongside the
consistent sort of excellence of Wellington Phoenix as well too
on and off the pitch. Those things show us what
the sport can be. But I think the decision making
has sort of shown us where we are right now
and hasn't allowed the impact of teams such as Auckland
(04:33):
the success of Wellington to ensure that a sort of
rising tide lifts all boat. So that's the challenge. I
think these clubs. Whilst we're in a difficult position at
the moment, clubs such as Auckland and Wellington show us
what can happen when clubs are run incredibly well, where
there's good governance and clarity over what they're trying to achieve.
So it gives us hope. But what we're lacking is
the strategy around how we translate that league wide.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Are you able to dig in and go Actually, you
know Wellington Phoenix, for example, their players are really happy,
but Western Sydney or whatever. Are at thirty percent? Yeah,
able to dig in and go one clubse more happy
than then the other or is it more competition wide?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
No, So what we're able to do we do a
really comprehensive survey with the players at the end of
every season and one of the key areas is we
do benchmark the clubs against each other in terms of
their workplace experience for the players. What we found was overall,
the experience in a club environment is really positive and
is improving. We're seeing greater levels of investment into facilities
(05:31):
for training facilities. If anyone's had the pleasure to go
to Wellington Phoenix's training ground, it's truly a world class
training ground. So I think these sort of things we're
seeing progress there. Where the concern really lies is in
relation to the league and the management the overall competition,
rather than significant issues at the club base where players
are coming in and working every day.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
The league itself pointed out this was done in May
and things have changed since the end. So have you
seen any mark change in both?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I think there's been some positive stuff. So if you
look at the start of the season, we have had
a lot of derbies. There's been some really good attendances
around that that who signs the APL are doing an
increased level of content. We're seeing some more fan engagement
and those sort of things. But I think the underlying
concern for the players is the governance framework in which
the sport operates, which is effectively where the club owners
(06:20):
make up the majority of the board, continues to be
in place. So the decision making governance framework that allowed
for the decision around the Grand Final on others remains
in place. So the players are concerned as to of
the fundamentals of the sport. What has changed to give
them confidence that that isn't going to happen again, And
the reality is that those big pieces of the puzzle
(06:41):
remain in place.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Have you benchmarked it against overseas leagues, for example? And
I know there's different management structures and how they're run,
but you know, forty six percent low trust in the
APL professional leagues to deliver the a League strategy. I mean,
can you compare that to the Premier League or the
legue or anything like that overseas. Have you got those
sort of comparisons? Is this widespread or is it very
(07:03):
unique to Australia and New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
We're really fortunate in that for a long period of
time we've been able to build a really strong and
effective relationship with our members. That's not always the case
around the world. And also we're often talking about if
you look at the English Premier League for example, we're
talking about more clubs, international players and arranger challenges around
sort of doing something similar. I haven't seen any evidence
(07:28):
of this similar type of project having been rolled out,
but I know that fIF PRO the Global Players Union
are looking at how they could do this on a
global scale, so we could answer that question that you
just asked, but we're not currently there at the moment globally.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
In terms of that vision and strategy to improve the
A League. We're looking at it from New Zealand perspective,
of course, having two New Zealand teams in there. What
do you think that's done for the competition over the
last few weeks since it kicked off.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I think it's been fantastic. You know, you look at
on the pitch that've been incredibly successful. They've recruited well,
they've prioritized local New Zealand talent and I think that
appears to have been really well received by the local community.
But I think there's a lot to learn from the
successful role out of expansion. It's been pretty fraud in
Australia and New Zealand football history, expansion has not been
(08:15):
something we've often got right. But I think when we
look at the experience that we've had with Auckland today
is that we've got an incredibly strong ownership group there
with multiple people involved with a range of different skills.
We've got a good infrastructure base, and we've also importantly
got a really strong market that's really keen to engage
in football. So I think that's the learning from that
of making sure that those three fundamentals are in place
(08:38):
for any way we expand, and then we're confident that
the sport can be successful in Auckland. Have have proved
that and there've been a real breath of fresh air
into the competition today.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Interest levels obviously have been elevated on the side of
the tasment, both for the Auckland and Wellington big Derby
coming up nixt week. I suppose from a players association perspective,
how do you ensured that you touched on it there?
But it doesn't fizzle out once that the derby's over,
and perhaps there's a couple of losses that the interest
levels do remain high in both of those teams.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Well, I think what's been really clear with both clubs
is they're incredibly connected into the local community. So they're
having a significant impact on the local sporting community, the
work they do in schools, the work they do in
grassroots clubs. So they're not just about sort of whether
I think the popularity shouldn't just rise whether they win
or lose. They've become far more important already, even in
their short history in Auckland, to the local community. So
(09:30):
that's really really fundamental. So I think that's the key
part of these guys playing the long game. You know,
the ownership group there, people like Bill Foley, Tim Brown
and others know that sort of market. Well, they know
what a successful club looks like, and it's really evident
that they're willing to play the long game. So I'm
really confident that, you know, there may be some ups
and downs, but I certainly don't think this is just
(09:52):
a matter of Auckland being successful at the start and
being something new. It looks like they're making a really
long term commitment to Auckland and that's fantastic to see.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Just finally, by make that survey and the dissatisfaction, I
suppose what would you like to see, say we're chatting
in twelve months time, to be implemented by the APL
to ensure that the A League is prosperous for years
to come.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I think what we'd like to see a big shift
is moving away from this unilateral model where leagues and
clubs actually just come down and make decisions that have
a significant impact on players without them even having the
opportunity to influence those. So we want to see a
shift there so that anything that impacts players, whether that
be expansion, whether that be the entry of private equity,
even TV right still that the experience of players can
(10:39):
help elevate those decisions. Some of our members have played
at the highest levels of the sport all around the world,
so they've got a lot of expertise we can influence
those decisions. But also importantly we can move away from
this sort of employer employee relationship and actually become business
partners where they're shared incentives around making this sports successful.
So that's where we'd really like to move the relationship
(10:59):
between the APL and the clubs and with the players.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Well watch the space on that front both. Thank you
so much for your time with us on News Talks EDB.
Look forward to watching that matter with progress. Appreciate it
no wayes. Thanks for your ton Bye Bush, the co
CEO of the Professional Footballers Association looking after A League players.
Interesting to get that perspective because from a New Zealand perspective,
the a leg's going absolute great guns at the moment.
(11:25):
Some of the players are a lot of the players
looking at some of those numbers that Bo mentioned there
and that the articles and the survey has suggested that
aren't in favor of the way that the A League
is heading.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live
to News Talk ZEDB weekends from midday or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
To Football at eleven after two on Weekend Sport. Interesting
survey out this week. Half of the eight league men's
players are dissatisfied with the running of the league. Twenty
seven percent very dissatisfied with how the Australian professional leagues
are performing in their management of the competition. Forty six
(00:33):
percent have low trust in their ability to improve the league.
Only eleven percent have a high trust level in the
managing body. So as things look rather rosie on this
side of the Tasman around all clind FC and the
Wellington Phoenix across the competition as a whole, it's not
tracking that well. Joining us to discuss more is the
(00:53):
professional Football is Australia CO Chief executive Bo bush Bow.
Thanks for your time here on news Talk ZBB this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Thanks so much for having me on. Much appreciated well.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Stats released during the week. Half of all a league
men's players dissatisfied with how the league is managed, according
to a survey that the players Union have run. It's
a philly, damning headline that screams out from the news outlets,
isn't it bo I.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Think, Look, the starting point for the players was that
to have a thriving a league we need to have
a really effective relationship with the APL to be able
to rebuild the sport to get it to where we
know it can be both in Australia and New Zealand.
And this sort of really clarifies the scale of the
challenges that we've got that there needs to be a
significant improvement that the players feel like their expertise and
(01:40):
their voice isn't able to be exerted in an influential
way around the governance of the sport to help but
make better decisions. So this sort of really clarifies what
it looks like when it's not working. And the hope
is that this can be a starting point and if
we do this survey at the end of the next
year see significant improvement.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
What are the frustrations then that the players have with
the way that the league is being managed.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Well, I think if you look at the last few years,
and particularly the New Zealand players, our Wellington players went
through enormous sacrifices to be able to ensure that the
sport could get through COVID and the hope is that
there would be better times around the horizon. The players
entered into a long term collective bargaining agreement with the
APL and the hope was that that would give the
game a platform to really stabilize its financial basis, and
(02:26):
unfortunately that hasn't happened. There's been significant investment into areas
such as keep Up, only for that to be closed down.
We've seen a lot of uncertainty around the private equity
investment where that's gone, where it's been invested, when and
if that needs to be paid back. So these are
all really important questions that the players currently don't have
(02:46):
clarity over and importantly, their decisions that have a massive
impact on the players, but equally they had very little
say over them as well.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I guess this doesn't happen overnight, does it? And as
you mentioned it, the COVID issue has snowboard over the
last few years. Has these things been fistering for a
while in terms of the players, I.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Think a little bit of both. So what's sort of happened?
As I said that the players had made these enormous
sacrifices and the challenge was, okay, let's get the sport
through COVID and let's hope for better times on the
other side and hope that we've done a collective bargaining
agreement that goes far enough to do that. Now, we've
seen some really positive stuff. So we've seen positive stuff
around the production of young players for examples, and really
(03:29):
outstanding coaches coming through the investment into academies, you know,
the emergence of Auckland, So that's sort of all positive.
But then we've seen this decision making around the Grand
Final and the like that we really think is not
optimal and that's put the sport in a really difficult position.
So that's sort of where it's compounding range of factors
and just feeling that the sport doesn't have this clarity
(03:49):
at the moment around where it's headed and how it's
going to ensure it's successful. So that's really where the
player's frustration mainly lies, about the moment around a lack
of certainty over where we're heading.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Because if you look at it from a New Zealand perspective,
new team and the competition and theory, if you're looking
at from the outside and from a new he's the
lily perspective, everything on this side of the Tasman seems
rather rosy, but that's not the case.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Well Look, I think sort of two things can be true.
At the same time. The emergence of Auckland to come
into the competition has been a huge positive, alongside the
consistent sort of excellence of Wellington Phoenix as well too
on and off the pitch. Those things show us what
the sport can be. But I think the decision making
has sort of shown us where we are right now
and hasn't allowed the impact of teams such as Auckland
(04:33):
the success of Wellington to ensure that a sort of
rising tide lifts all boat. So that's the challenge. I
think these clubs. Whilst we're in a difficult position at
the moment, clubs such as Auckland and Wellington show us
what can happen when clubs are run incredibly well, where
there's good governance and clarity over what they're trying to achieve.
So it gives us hope. But what we're lacking is
the strategy around how we translate that league wide.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Are you able to dig in and go Actually, you
know Wellington Phoenix, for example, their players are really happy,
but Western Sydney or whatever. Are at thirty percent? Yeah,
able to dig in and go one clubse more happy
than then the other or is it more competition wide?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
No, So what we're able to do we do a
really comprehensive survey with the players at the end of
every season and one of the key areas is we
do benchmark the clubs against each other in terms of
their workplace experience for the players. What we found was overall,
the experience in a club environment is really positive and
is improving. We're seeing greater levels of investment into facilities
(05:31):
for training facilities. If anyone's had the pleasure to go
to Wellington Phoenix's training ground, it's truly a world class
training ground. So I think these sort of things we're
seeing progress there. Where the concern really lies is in
relation to the league and the management the overall competition,
rather than significant issues at the club base where players
are coming in and working every day.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
The league itself pointed out this was done in May
and things have changed since the end. So have you
seen any mark change in both?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I think there's been some positive stuff. So if you
look at the start of the season, we have had
a lot of derbies. There's been some really good attendances
around that that who signs the APL are doing an
increased level of content. We're seeing some more fan engagement
and those sort of things. But I think the underlying
concern for the players is the governance framework in which
the sport operates, which is effectively where the club owners
(06:20):
make up the majority of the board, continues to be
in place. So the decision making governance framework that allowed
for the decision around the Grand Final on others remains
in place. So the players are concerned as to of
the fundamentals of the sport. What has changed to give
them confidence that that isn't going to happen again, And
the reality is that those big pieces of the puzzle
(06:41):
remain in place.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Have you benchmarked it against overseas leagues, for example? And
I know there's different management structures and how they're run,
but you know, forty six percent low trust in the
APL professional leagues to deliver the a League strategy. I mean,
can you compare that to the Premier League or the
legue or anything like that overseas. Have you got those
sort of comparisons? Is this widespread or is it very
(07:03):
unique to Australia and New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
We're really fortunate in that for a long period of
time we've been able to build a really strong and
effective relationship with our members. That's not always the case
around the world. And also we're often talking about if
you look at the English Premier League for example, we're
talking about more clubs, international players and arranger challenges around
sort of doing something similar. I haven't seen any evidence
(07:28):
of this similar type of project having been rolled out,
but I know that fIF PRO the Global Players Union
are looking at how they could do this on a
global scale, so we could answer that question that you
just asked, but we're not currently there at the moment globally.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
In terms of that vision and strategy to improve the
A League. We're looking at it from New Zealand perspective,
of course, having two New Zealand teams in there. What
do you think that's done for the competition over the
last few weeks since it kicked off.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I think it's been fantastic. You know, you look at
on the pitch that've been incredibly successful. They've recruited well,
they've prioritized local New Zealand talent and I think that
appears to have been really well received by the local community.
But I think there's a lot to learn from the
successful role out of expansion. It's been pretty fraud in
Australia and New Zealand football history, expansion has not been
(08:15):
something we've often got right. But I think when we
look at the experience that we've had with Auckland today
is that we've got an incredibly strong ownership group there
with multiple people involved with a range of different skills.
We've got a good infrastructure base, and we've also importantly
got a really strong market that's really keen to engage
in football. So I think that's the learning from that
of making sure that those three fundamentals are in place
(08:38):
for any way we expand, and then we're confident that
the sport can be successful in Auckland. Have have proved
that and there've been a real breath of fresh air
into the competition today.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Interest levels obviously have been elevated on the side of
the tasment, both for the Auckland and Wellington big Derby
coming up nixt week. I suppose from a players association perspective,
how do you ensured that you touched on it there?
But it doesn't fizzle out once that the derby's over,
and perhaps there's a couple of losses that the interest
levels do remain high in both of those teams.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Well, I think what's been really clear with both clubs
is they're incredibly connected into the local community. So they're
having a significant impact on the local sporting community, the
work they do in schools, the work they do in
grassroots clubs. So they're not just about sort of whether
I think the popularity shouldn't just rise whether they win
or lose. They've become far more important already, even in
their short history in Auckland, to the local community. So
(09:30):
that's really really fundamental. So I think that's the key
part of these guys playing the long game. You know,
the ownership group there, people like Bill Foley, Tim Brown
and others know that sort of market. Well, they know
what a successful club looks like, and it's really evident
that they're willing to play the long game. So I'm
really confident that, you know, there may be some ups
and downs, but I certainly don't think this is just
(09:52):
a matter of Auckland being successful at the start and
being something new. It looks like they're making a really
long term commitment to Auckland and that's fantastic to see.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Just finally, by make that survey and the dissatisfaction, I
suppose what would you like to see, say we're chatting
in twelve months time, to be implemented by the APL
to ensure that the A League is prosperous for years
to come.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I think what we'd like to see a big shift
is moving away from this unilateral model where leagues and
clubs actually just come down and make decisions that have
a significant impact on players without them even having the
opportunity to influence those. So we want to see a
shift there so that anything that impacts players, whether that
be expansion, whether that be the entry of private equity,
even TV right still that the experience of players can
(10:39):
help elevate those decisions. Some of our members have played
at the highest levels of the sport all around the world,
so they've got a lot of expertise we can influence
those decisions. But also importantly we can move away from
this sort of employer employee relationship and actually become business
partners where they're shared incentives around making this sports successful.
So that's where we'd really like to move the relationship
(10:59):
between the APL and the clubs and with the players.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Well watch the space on that front both. Thank you
so much for your time with us on News Talks EDB.
Look forward to watching that matter with progress. Appreciate it
no wayes. Thanks for your ton Bye Bush, the co
CEO of the Professional Footballers Association looking after A League players.
Interesting to get that perspective because from a New Zealand perspective,
the a leg's going absolute great guns at the moment.
(11:25):
Some of the players are a lot of the players
looking at some of those numbers that Bo mentioned there
and that the articles and the survey has suggested that
aren't in favor of the way that the A League
is heading.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live
to News Talk ZEDB weekends from midday or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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