August 17, 2024 • 9 mins
Famed referee Ben O'Keeffe is set to break Paddy O'Brien's record for most first-class XV games refereed.
He joined Piney to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Longstanding first class refereeing record is to be broken this afternoon.
Ben O'Keeffe is in charge of the NPC rugby match
between Counties Monaco and White Cuttle in Pokakoe, kicking off
around four thirty. It'll be Ben o'keef's two hundred and
twenty second top level fifteen's game, passing Patti O'Brien's two
(00:33):
hundred and twenty one. That record has stood since two
thousand and five. Ben o keeff joins us on the
way of the game. I think congrats on the milestone.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Ben.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Can you remember game number one two twenty two this afternoon?
Can you remember game number one?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah? Thanks Piney. Game number one was a long time
go now, but I do remember. It was on the
West Coast. I was doing a Heartland game and I
was pretty young back Dennis, learning my trade and craft.
But it almost didn't go ahead because of the winner,
and I think it was a bit of hail, but
it was nothing. I think sophomly getting on that field
(01:07):
to do that match, and it's in plenty more since then,
so it's been awesome. It's been I'm really grateful.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So two hundred and twenty two and counting this afternoon.
How much does this milestone mean to you? That the
fact that you'll be, you know, the highest highest controlling
referee in New Zealand history.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I think mainly, like you know, when I realized that
I was going to reach out milestone this week, it
just makes me reflect on, you know, the referees that
have gone before. Obviously Power O'Brien massive, and you know,
it was a big part of me when I started
young himself Colin Hawk, and I've had a lot of
not just referees who have up coached me or I've
been you know, working with you know, people that have
(01:49):
just really assisted me throughout the game the whole time.
So it sort of made me just reflect I long
to help that I've got along the way because it's
been a big part of my life in part of
games and I absolutely love it. And how to get
to two hundred and twenty two, I sort of feel
like there's a bit of responsibility to keep going and
you know, do either better job for the next one
hundred and twenty two.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I can brilliant, great stuff. What is behind your longevity
at the very top level do you think, Look, I've
had a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Of good support while I've been refereeing, but I do
think that I'm a bit of a like I'm a
student of the game. I love rugby and I'm always
trying to work on the things that I can get
bit after every single game i'm reviewing them. You know,
I'm really diligent about how I watch my games afterwards
and then what to do for a week two get better.
So I feel like I've been able to just grow
(02:38):
after each game to do that, and that's what I
always tell other referees and when our refereeing games is
you know, you've always got to learn. There's always something
you can take out of a match that it can
make you better for the next game that you do.
So I feel like that's probably been a big part
of it and something that I'll just I'll continue with
on my journey.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
When you're doing a review, what is it that you're
watching for.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
A lot of it, I mean there's a lot of
detail just around the decisions that I make. We'll make
correct here and obvious, what decisions that I miss, and
then things like how was my positioning in the game.
Could I be better the way that I communicate with
the players, was that a correct escalation process about to
give alow card. So all these things that make your
(03:19):
game understandable not just for the players, but for the
spectators and people watching the game as well. I want
it to be really clear to them how I'm officiating
and controlling.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The match and amongst those two hundred and twenty two
or two hundred and twenty one up till now, you've
controlled some massive matches Rugby World Cup semi finals. Do
you still get a buzz out of referring provincial rugby?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Oh? Absolutely? Singles sort of go down my spine now
just thinking about, you know, the games that we got
coming up that you know, even just heading down the
book cover, like I almost feel like it. Even though
IVE done some massive games on line series and Rugby
World Cups, you know, you feel more pressure, you know,
doing NBC proviential games, doing super rugby games, because you
know there is there's an expectation that you do a really,
(04:03):
really good job. And I love that. I also love
the environment of going in and you know, I have
some young assistant referees, some new tmos that I can
work with, but also just the environment around you. There's
only a little bit of an aftermat to the NBC
game too, So those types of things I do find
more pressured because I want to do a really good job,
(04:24):
but I also love the environment around how everyone can
just enjoy it after the game as well.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
How much responsibility responsibility, Ben, do you feel for nurturing
the next way you talked about some young officials. There
is that a responsibility that you take seriously.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, but Hurricane, that's one of the biggest things that
I'm sort of running towards now. I guess the responsibility
that I want. And you know, the game is trying
to work itself out of a whole internationally or so
regionally as well. We're trying to get people that love
the sport, and I think it's small part of that
is the referees and how we manage games, referee games
and allow people to understand the decisions that we're making.
(05:00):
So I feel a bit of responsibility to help that
drive to improve the game, and also, like I'll want to,
I want to be a leader and show the next
generation of young men and woman referees. Hopefully how to
do it my way and then hopefully they can get
better than me and and you know, go on to
the intersession stage and to be absolutely fantastic, which is
(05:21):
you know where we were out at the moment was
really really promising and really awesome referee at they're living
and I hope that would give many many more and
you know they can sort of surpass me and then
lead the way after f I'm done.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Well, you take the record from Patty O'Brien. You mentioned
that before, but can can you just give us a
bit of an insight into into the assistance he's given
you and the and the trail that he blazed for referees.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Well, he did professional referee, you know, him, along with
Colin Hawk, showed that you know, it could be the
job can be or personally a full time professional role,
and you know that it can be a job that
has taken very seriously and that to be to be
able to have long jevity, you have to work hard,
not just on the field, how you you know, you
(06:02):
move like he was a very physically active referee. He
was really really fast. The way that he managed players.
You know, it was something that you know, when we
were younger, we always sort of aspired to it. We
would take parts of what Paddy did, parts of what
Colin Hawke did, parts of what guys like Chris Pollock,
Bryce Lawrence ken Jackson did, and we'll try and mold
the best of that into how we refereed. So now,
(06:23):
all those referees that have gone before me, I've watched them,
and you know, I've studied them and taken a piece
of what they do really well and tried to include
it in the game that I or how I refereed.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
How much has the officiating of the game changed during
these two hundred and twenty one games.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, well, look, if I think back to right at
the start, you know, we go through just the number
of camera angles that are there in the games, the
use of the TMO and the protocol around what the
TMO can come in for and what they can't come
in for, and even more recently just the law changes
to try and make the game faster also safer for the players.
So all of that has helped I think the game
(07:03):
grow into the right direction and it's going to keep
It's going to canntinue to do that. And what I
love is that over the last few years, players, coaches,
you know, key stakeholders in the game have also been
collaborating with referees to try and make that game you
know better for every run too. So I think it's
changed a lot over the two hundred and twenty two games,
(07:23):
as certainly I can remember I've helped to change. I
feel like it's gone in the right direction. So it's
exciting to still be a part of because I think
we can actually go a lot further than making a
game that we love, you know, more more enjoyable for
other parts of the world as well. So I think
it's pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Can you still watch a game of rugby as a
fan without refereeing it from the stand or from your couch?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Oh? No, I think I was five games five games
in and that kind of stopped for me unfortunately. And
I feel sorry for any any you know, close friends
and family as well, because I think they sort of
fixed on watching the referee too now. But me, no,
I always I've always sort of watching a game, and
you know, even though I can, I can really enjoy,
you know, watching the all backs of a fan. I'm
definitely you know, looking at where the referees positioned and
(08:09):
for the sistems that they make and the replays that
come on the big screen as well. So and I
enjoy it. But you know, it's a fascinating part of
the game. When I'm sort of sitting in the stands
or I'm sitting on the couch watching watching a game
of rugby, I think I can get a bit loud.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I think I don't believe that. I don't believe so too.
Twenty two this afternoon. What do you reckon the final
number will be?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Look, I don't know. I think I'm thirty five now,
and if you look at sort of the age of
you know, some some of the top referees have sort
of continued into their sort of late forties. I'd love
to I'd love to continue for another few World Cups.
Obviously We're a World Cup coming in Australia, the US
after that, and then you know, potentially out there as well.
But yeah, look, the body is really good right now.
(08:54):
I feel like I'm really contributing well to the game,
friends really well as well. So and also I feel like,
you know, there's sort of still a lot of stuff
that I can earn and get better at. So I
hope the runways quite long. I'm keen to stay. I'm
part of the game because it's a privilege to be.
It's got to run on any sort of field, you know,
not just around the world, but you know, especially in
New Zealand. You know, right from Super Rugbnb Seve and
(09:16):
to Club Rugby. You know, it's it's it's it's awesome.
So yeah, look, I'm hoping, I'm hoping it's it's a
long one, but it's not because you know, we've got
a lot of young refrees coming up and they take
over me and that's fine as well. I would have
left it in a good place. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Well, I'm sure there's a bit to come and join
number two too too this afternoon. Ben, thanks for chatting
and we'll catch up again soon. Bye, Thank no, thank
you mate. That has been O'Keefe on his way to
referee his two hundred and twenty second first class game
of fifteen's passing Patty O'Brien's two twenty one that record
dating back to two thousand and five.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk sed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on ihard Radio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Longstanding first class refereeing record is to be broken this afternoon.
Ben O'Keeffe is in charge of the NPC rugby match
between Counties Monaco and White Cuttle in Pokakoe, kicking off
around four thirty. It'll be Ben o'keef's two hundred and
twenty second top level fifteen's game, passing Patti O'Brien's two
(00:33):
hundred and twenty one. That record has stood since two
thousand and five. Ben o keeff joins us on the
way of the game. I think congrats on the milestone.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Ben.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Can you remember game number one two twenty two this afternoon?
Can you remember game number one?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah? Thanks Piney. Game number one was a long time
go now, but I do remember. It was on the
West Coast. I was doing a Heartland game and I
was pretty young back Dennis, learning my trade and craft.
But it almost didn't go ahead because of the winner,
and I think it was a bit of hail, but
it was nothing. I think sophomly getting on that field
(01:07):
to do that match, and it's in plenty more since then,
so it's been awesome. It's been I'm really grateful.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So two hundred and twenty two and counting this afternoon.
How much does this milestone mean to you? That the
fact that you'll be, you know, the highest highest controlling
referee in New Zealand history.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I think mainly, like you know, when I realized that
I was going to reach out milestone this week, it
just makes me reflect on, you know, the referees that
have gone before. Obviously Power O'Brien massive, and you know,
it was a big part of me when I started
young himself Colin Hawk, and I've had a lot of
not just referees who have up coached me or I've
been you know, working with you know, people that have
(01:49):
just really assisted me throughout the game the whole time.
So it sort of made me just reflect I long
to help that I've got along the way because it's
been a big part of my life in part of
games and I absolutely love it. And how to get
to two hundred and twenty two, I sort of feel
like there's a bit of responsibility to keep going and
you know, do either better job for the next one
hundred and twenty two.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I can brilliant, great stuff. What is behind your longevity
at the very top level do you think, Look, I've
had a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Of good support while I've been refereeing, but I do
think that I'm a bit of a like I'm a
student of the game. I love rugby and I'm always
trying to work on the things that I can get
bit after every single game i'm reviewing them. You know,
I'm really diligent about how I watch my games afterwards
and then what to do for a week two get better.
So I feel like I've been able to just grow
(02:38):
after each game to do that, and that's what I
always tell other referees and when our refereeing games is
you know, you've always got to learn. There's always something
you can take out of a match that it can
make you better for the next game that you do.
So I feel like that's probably been a big part
of it and something that I'll just I'll continue with
on my journey.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
When you're doing a review, what is it that you're
watching for.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
A lot of it, I mean there's a lot of
detail just around the decisions that I make. We'll make
correct here and obvious, what decisions that I miss, and
then things like how was my positioning in the game.
Could I be better the way that I communicate with
the players, was that a correct escalation process about to
give alow card. So all these things that make your
(03:19):
game understandable not just for the players, but for the
spectators and people watching the game as well. I want
it to be really clear to them how I'm officiating
and controlling.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The match and amongst those two hundred and twenty two
or two hundred and twenty one up till now, you've
controlled some massive matches Rugby World Cup semi finals. Do
you still get a buzz out of referring provincial rugby?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Oh? Absolutely? Singles sort of go down my spine now
just thinking about, you know, the games that we got
coming up that you know, even just heading down the
book cover, like I almost feel like it. Even though
IVE done some massive games on line series and Rugby
World Cups, you know, you feel more pressure, you know,
doing NBC proviential games, doing super rugby games, because you
know there is there's an expectation that you do a really,
(04:03):
really good job. And I love that. I also love
the environment of going in and you know, I have
some young assistant referees, some new tmos that I can
work with, but also just the environment around you. There's
only a little bit of an aftermat to the NBC
game too, So those types of things I do find
more pressured because I want to do a really good job,
(04:24):
but I also love the environment around how everyone can
just enjoy it after the game as well.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
How much responsibility responsibility, Ben, do you feel for nurturing
the next way you talked about some young officials. There
is that a responsibility that you take seriously.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, but Hurricane, that's one of the biggest things that
I'm sort of running towards now. I guess the responsibility
that I want. And you know, the game is trying
to work itself out of a whole internationally or so
regionally as well. We're trying to get people that love
the sport, and I think it's small part of that
is the referees and how we manage games, referee games
and allow people to understand the decisions that we're making.
(05:00):
So I feel a bit of responsibility to help that
drive to improve the game, and also, like I'll want to,
I want to be a leader and show the next
generation of young men and woman referees. Hopefully how to
do it my way and then hopefully they can get
better than me and and you know, go on to
the intersession stage and to be absolutely fantastic, which is
(05:21):
you know where we were out at the moment was
really really promising and really awesome referee at they're living
and I hope that would give many many more and
you know they can sort of surpass me and then
lead the way after f I'm done.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Well, you take the record from Patty O'Brien. You mentioned
that before, but can can you just give us a
bit of an insight into into the assistance he's given
you and the and the trail that he blazed for referees.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Well, he did professional referee, you know, him, along with
Colin Hawk, showed that you know, it could be the
job can be or personally a full time professional role,
and you know that it can be a job that
has taken very seriously and that to be to be
able to have long jevity, you have to work hard,
not just on the field, how you you know, you
(06:02):
move like he was a very physically active referee. He
was really really fast. The way that he managed players.
You know, it was something that you know, when we
were younger, we always sort of aspired to it. We
would take parts of what Paddy did, parts of what
Colin Hawke did, parts of what guys like Chris Pollock,
Bryce Lawrence ken Jackson did, and we'll try and mold
the best of that into how we refereed. So now,
(06:23):
all those referees that have gone before me, I've watched them,
and you know, I've studied them and taken a piece
of what they do really well and tried to include
it in the game that I or how I refereed.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
How much has the officiating of the game changed during
these two hundred and twenty one games.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, well, look, if I think back to right at
the start, you know, we go through just the number
of camera angles that are there in the games, the
use of the TMO and the protocol around what the
TMO can come in for and what they can't come
in for, and even more recently just the law changes
to try and make the game faster also safer for the players.
So all of that has helped I think the game
(07:03):
grow into the right direction and it's going to keep
It's going to canntinue to do that. And what I
love is that over the last few years, players, coaches,
you know, key stakeholders in the game have also been
collaborating with referees to try and make that game you
know better for every run too. So I think it's
changed a lot over the two hundred and twenty two games,
(07:23):
as certainly I can remember I've helped to change. I
feel like it's gone in the right direction. So it's
exciting to still be a part of because I think
we can actually go a lot further than making a
game that we love, you know, more more enjoyable for
other parts of the world as well. So I think
it's pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Can you still watch a game of rugby as a
fan without refereeing it from the stand or from your couch?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Oh? No, I think I was five games five games
in and that kind of stopped for me unfortunately. And
I feel sorry for any any you know, close friends
and family as well, because I think they sort of
fixed on watching the referee too now. But me, no,
I always I've always sort of watching a game, and
you know, even though I can, I can really enjoy,
you know, watching the all backs of a fan. I'm
definitely you know, looking at where the referees positioned and
(08:09):
for the sistems that they make and the replays that
come on the big screen as well. So and I
enjoy it. But you know, it's a fascinating part of
the game. When I'm sort of sitting in the stands
or I'm sitting on the couch watching watching a game
of rugby, I think I can get a bit loud.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I think I don't believe that. I don't believe so too.
Twenty two this afternoon. What do you reckon the final
number will be?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Look, I don't know. I think I'm thirty five now,
and if you look at sort of the age of
you know, some some of the top referees have sort
of continued into their sort of late forties. I'd love
to I'd love to continue for another few World Cups.
Obviously We're a World Cup coming in Australia, the US
after that, and then you know, potentially out there as well.
But yeah, look, the body is really good right now.
(08:54):
I feel like I'm really contributing well to the game,
friends really well as well. So and also I feel like,
you know, there's sort of still a lot of stuff
that I can earn and get better at. So I
hope the runways quite long. I'm keen to stay. I'm
part of the game because it's a privilege to be.
It's got to run on any sort of field, you know,
not just around the world, but you know, especially in
New Zealand. You know, right from Super Rugbnb Seve and
(09:16):
to Club Rugby. You know, it's it's it's it's awesome.
So yeah, look, I'm hoping, I'm hoping it's it's a
long one, but it's not because you know, we've got
a lot of young refrees coming up and they take
over me and that's fine as well. I would have
left it in a good place. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Well, I'm sure there's a bit to come and join
number two too too this afternoon. Ben, thanks for chatting
and we'll catch up again soon. Bye, Thank no, thank
you mate. That has been O'Keefe on his way to
referee his two hundred and twenty second first class game
of fifteen's passing Patty O'Brien's two twenty one that record
dating back to two thousand and five.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk sed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on ihard Radio
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