October 11, 2025 • 16 mins
R360 is the rebel rugby competition that has everyone talking, despite rugby unions all over the world warning players off it.
New Zealand, England, Ireland, France, Scotland, Australia, South Africa, and Italy have issued a joint statement against the competition, which is set to launch in 2026.
NZR's Chris Lendrum joined Piney to discuss further.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A joint statement from eight international rugby unions, including New Zealand's,
this week warning players they will not be eligible for
international selection if they switch to the proposed Rugby three
sixty League. Now, there have been reports of big money
offers for leading rugby and rugby league players for the competition,
which is being promoted by former England international Mike Tindall.
(00:36):
Our three sixty organizers have said they want to work
with the unions and that player welfare is their top priority,
but New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Ireland, England, Scotland, France
and Italy have united in their opposition. The union said,
as a group of national rugby unions, we are urging
(00:57):
extreme caution for players and support staff considering joining the
proposed R three sixty competition. They went on to say
we will be advising men's and women's players that participation
in R three sixty would make them ineligible for international selection.
New Zealand Rugby's general manager of Professional Rugby and Performance
(01:19):
is Chris Landram, who joins US now. Chris, thanks for
your time this afternoon. This, of course, doesn't actually change
anything from New Zealand Rugby's point of view, does it.
It's always been the case that you have to play
super rugby to play for the All Blacks. But were
you surprised that South Africa and Australia, who do select
overseas players for their test teams, have also said they
(01:42):
won't select our three sixty players for international rugby.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh pure funny. Thanks for having me on again, mate, No,
I'm not surprised. I think when all the unions are
looking at three sixty and thinking about the implication of
their players playing in it and the league establishing. Given
(02:12):
we've had very very minimal dialogue with the principles of
the proposed tournament, I think everybody's seeing threat at the
moment and a real challenge to the existing rugby business model.
So I'm not surprised at all.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Could that threat over time become an opportunity.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Well, we're open minded, right, but one of the challenges
at the moment is that most of the principles have
largely gone to ground. It's very difficult to get any
information or responses to questions that either ourselves or the
international Rugby Players Association have have asked about things like,
(03:00):
how will this actually work in practice? Is it even
seasible for them to release players? What are their plans,
particularly around women's rugby, because the release windows for international
women's rugby occur at different times in the calendar to
the men's. A whole range of questions like this, and
(03:25):
until those get answered, it's impossible to know whether there's
opportunity in it at all. But the threat in the
absence of information seems really clear to all national unions,
I think, and if I could summarize that pioneer, I
know we don't like talking about business models when we're
talking about sport, but the reality is, in simple terms,
(03:49):
professional rugby as it's constructed globally now makes money, and
that money funds the community game, and it's the same
for New Zealand or England, or Ireland or France, any
of the countries that have signed up now. The R
three sixty model appears to be founded on a concept
(04:14):
that their professional competition will make money, but that money
won't be reinvested back into the community game around the world,
that those profits will be heading straight to the back
pockets of a wealthy elite. So that's the challenge and
that's why you're seeing the national unions come out the
(04:35):
way we have.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So our three sixty's response to the union's joint statement
included the sentence, our philosophy is clear. If players want
to play for their country, they should have that opportunity.
Why would the union stand in their way? What is
your reaction to that?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Well, from a New Zealand perspective, it's really clear. Right,
We've always wanted our best players playing in our domestic competitions.
Our eligibility policy is founded on that premise and to
this sixtent R Sbrey sixty is no different from any
other competition that's come along over the years. We have
(05:17):
made the odd exception around sabbaticalsadn't we piney And it's
probably going to be your next question, but the reality
is those are in competitions that exist within the existing
Rugby ecosystem, not a competition that, for want of more information,
looks like it's a threat to that ecosystem and our
(05:40):
ability to fund our community programs and our pathway.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, I do have sabbaticals written down here, and I
assume that that sabbaticals wouldn't be available in R three sixty.
But what about players who come off contract with you,
go away, play in other countries, then come back home.
Lester fighting Looker the latest example, returned from his time
in France and water Black Jersey again last weekend. Richie
Wonger coming back from Japan next year in the future,
(06:08):
could you see some of your players leaving to play
Rugby three sixty for a season or two and then
coming back.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well, nothing's impossible, Pioney, But there's a big difference between
going and playing for Toulon or going and playing for Tashiba.
And at the moment, what we understand to be going
to play for R three sixty, and that is those
in the competitions I quoted the French competition, the Japanese competition.
(06:40):
They exist within the current rugby ecosystem and that allows
for the profits from the international game and professional rugby
to circle around the system and fund the community game.
And so we've shown some flexibility, we've shown open minds
in the past to support our retention and support our
(07:01):
all Blacks performance. R three sixty appears to be a
step too far, mate, because the money's not going to
come back and float around the system and fund our
clubs and our schools.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Three sixty say, and I guess you have to take
this with a grain of salt. That they have agreements
in place with two hundred players. Do you know how
many of any of those are New Zealanders.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Well, what I can say is that weighing in R
three sixty is not something that's come up in any
All Blacks contract negotiations we've had in the last twelve months.
Our players appear to be really excited by the calendar
of rugby that's available if you're playing in New Zealand
over the next four years. It's not impossible that some
(07:51):
have signed some free contract agreements. By all I'd say
is I really hope the players and agents are doing
the illegal due diligence, that they understand whether those agreements
are binding or are on foot, and have taken advice
(08:12):
on it.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
And this might not be a question for you, given
that you're concern as current players, but do you think
players who reached the end of their contracts with New
Zealand Rugby then a head off shore and this has
happened most regularly to Japan to end their careers, do
you think those sorts of players would be tempted by
R three point sixty as opposed to going and playing
in Japan, for example.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Look, I'm sure there's temptation there because the sorts of
numbers that are being banded about are considerable, right, but
nobody really knows whether they're real, or how they will
be funded, or the economics of a tournament where you know,
(08:57):
it's essentially a traveling roadshow and there's a huge, huge
cost involved in putting on a competition of that order,
and it may well be that the principles and the
funders and behind it can afford to do that. But yeah, look,
I understand the temptation. I think what the national unions
(09:20):
have established, again in the absence of any real engagement
with R three sixty, is that players have got a choice.
And indeed, even the competition still needs to be sanctioned
by World Rugby. And I see that the third that
sanctioning application till the middle of next year. It was
due to be discussed and determined by World Rugby in September.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Do you think it'll get off the ground.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I don't know. I've been in the game and around
the game for a long time we've seen quote unquote
rebel circuits discussed before, or alternative competitions discussed before. Many
have come and gone. I would say R three sixty
(10:13):
has always seemed a little bit more serious to us.
Certainly the discussions around it inside the rugby business have
been ongoing for over twelve months. Probably now will it
get up? I just don't know. It's really a question
probably for players and agents. What I'm focused on is
(10:37):
New Zealand. New Zealand rugby are all blacks and black films.
We've got a really fantastic calendar of rugby coming up
for our best players to participate in. We know they're
really excited about that. Tours to and from South Africa,
British and Irish Lions tours, coming Nations championships, hopefully a
(10:59):
World Club Cup at some point. There's so much to
look forward to. Truly unique five year period coming up
for you know, best players, our teams in black and
that's where our focus is.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Chris, thank you for clarifying New Zealand Rugby's viewpoints so eloquently.
Always appreciate your time. Thanks for taking the call.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
But is your pioney nice to chat?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Nice to tet to you too, Chris. Chris Lenderm, New
Zealand Rugby's general manager of Professional Rugby and Performance, can
you get your views on our three sixty oh eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. Chris Lendrum made New Zealand
Rugby's view pretty clear there, and it's a consistent view,
no change from the stance they've always taken. If you
(11:47):
want to play for the All Blacks, you play Super
Rugby and that stance is paid off. New Zealand Rugby
has every player they want for the next World Cup
contracted to the end of twenty twenty seven, and they
have a dozen or so players contracted Beyond that, they've
done a very good job of making sure our most
i hortant players are locked in.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Now.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
The fact that South Africa and Australia in particular have
joined this United Front is more telling for me because
it's a departure from their policy of selecting players from
outside their own domestic competitions for test matches. So their
involvement in this United Front is a departure from their
(12:31):
normal policy, and Chris Landrum a couple of times pointed
out the fact that proceeds from professional rugby in the
unions that have joined together on this are fed back
into the community, and that is very salent. It's a
salient point. I feel also as though R three sixty
would have more chance of tempting players across if they
(12:52):
were launching in twenty twenty eight, the year after a
World Cup, when we always see an exodus of players,
usually to places like Japan that tends to be the
most common destination for those finishing their international career. I
feel as though that would be a more logical time
for them to launch. And then you ask yourself, which
(13:14):
sorts of players would look at our three P sixty
as an option. It would be most attractive, wouldn't it
to a player who's coming to the end of their
All Blacks career, who's been to a World Cup or
World Cup's plural and as looking for that last contract
or two before they retire and move on to the
next stage of their life. The sorts of players, as
(13:35):
I say, who right now look to finish their careers
up in Japan. There are any number of former All
Blacks up there right now, Sam Kaine, T J. Pettanatta,
Aaron Smith's up there, Brady Retallic, to name a few.
If our three sixty gets off the ground, I feel
like it's the Japanese clubs who should be more worried
because they will have genuine competition for the players who
right now see Japan as their final rugby destination. So
(14:01):
then you look at the current crop of all Blacks
and who might have their head turned by this, And
it's guys, as I say, I've had very good all
black's careers, have been to a World Cup or two,
but who are not now first choice in their position,
and who may or may not go to the next
Rugby World Cup. If I'm R three sixty, those are
(14:22):
the types of guys I'm getting in touch with. I'd
be on the phone straight away to Severes. He's only contracted, incidentally,
until the end of twenty twenty six, not twenty seven.
Ricco Yowani might be an option. Dalton Papolli he might
be an option. Both contracted until twenty twenty seven, but
we know that these things can be gotten out off.
Anton Lennard Brown might be an option. He's contracted until
(14:45):
the end of twenty twenty eight. But again we're talking
about older players. Unless R three sixty are able to
tempt an elite young player into the fold, a first
choice all black who's nearer the start of their career
than the end, then I'm not sure too much has
really changed, and I don't think there's any need for
(15:06):
p or even concern. If if they could tempt Camera
Reguard or Wallace Stiti or Will Jordan, then we would
have a problem, and then we'd have to have another conversation.
Of course, all of this is contingent on R three
(15:27):
sixty actually getting off the ground at all, and I
would love to get an update from them. I'd like
to know if this is all actually a thing or not,
and what impact has the stance from these eight unions
had on their plans. How far down the track are
they to having their competition sanctioned by World Rugby, which,
as you heard Chris Lenham say, hasn't happened yet because
(15:48):
without that it's just a dream, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Now.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
We've reached out several times this week to invite a
representative from R three sixty onto the show. It feels
to me like they'd want to state their case an update.
A berg sports minded New Zealand audience like this show
has on their plans and their progress, but we've had
no reply, and from what I can say, I don't
think any other New Zealand based media outlet has either.
Look the invitation to them remains open and always will.
(16:13):
Very keen to hear from our three sixty about this.
As I say, we've tried and we will keep trying
for more.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
From Weekends Sport with Jason Fine, Listen live to News
Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A joint statement from eight international rugby unions, including New Zealand's,
this week warning players they will not be eligible for
international selection if they switch to the proposed Rugby three
sixty League. Now, there have been reports of big money
offers for leading rugby and rugby league players for the competition,
which is being promoted by former England international Mike Tindall.
(00:36):
Our three sixty organizers have said they want to work
with the unions and that player welfare is their top priority,
but New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Ireland, England, Scotland, France
and Italy have united in their opposition. The union said,
as a group of national rugby unions, we are urging
(00:57):
extreme caution for players and support staff considering joining the
proposed R three sixty competition. They went on to say
we will be advising men's and women's players that participation
in R three sixty would make them ineligible for international selection.
New Zealand Rugby's general manager of Professional Rugby and Performance
(01:19):
is Chris Landram, who joins US now. Chris, thanks for
your time this afternoon. This, of course, doesn't actually change
anything from New Zealand Rugby's point of view, does it.
It's always been the case that you have to play
super rugby to play for the All Blacks. But were
you surprised that South Africa and Australia, who do select
overseas players for their test teams, have also said they
(01:42):
won't select our three sixty players for international rugby.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh pure funny. Thanks for having me on again, mate, No,
I'm not surprised. I think when all the unions are
looking at three sixty and thinking about the implication of
their players playing in it and the league establishing. Given
(02:12):
we've had very very minimal dialogue with the principles of
the proposed tournament, I think everybody's seeing threat at the
moment and a real challenge to the existing rugby business model.
So I'm not surprised at all.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Could that threat over time become an opportunity.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Well, we're open minded, right, but one of the challenges
at the moment is that most of the principles have
largely gone to ground. It's very difficult to get any
information or responses to questions that either ourselves or the
international Rugby Players Association have have asked about things like,
(03:00):
how will this actually work in practice? Is it even
seasible for them to release players? What are their plans,
particularly around women's rugby, because the release windows for international
women's rugby occur at different times in the calendar to
the men's. A whole range of questions like this, and
(03:25):
until those get answered, it's impossible to know whether there's
opportunity in it at all. But the threat in the
absence of information seems really clear to all national unions,
I think, and if I could summarize that pioneer, I
know we don't like talking about business models when we're
talking about sport, but the reality is, in simple terms,
(03:49):
professional rugby as it's constructed globally now makes money, and
that money funds the community game, and it's the same
for New Zealand or England, or Ireland or France, any
of the countries that have signed up now. The R
three sixty model appears to be founded on a concept
(04:14):
that their professional competition will make money, but that money
won't be reinvested back into the community game around the world,
that those profits will be heading straight to the back
pockets of a wealthy elite. So that's the challenge and
that's why you're seeing the national unions come out the
(04:35):
way we have.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So our three sixty's response to the union's joint statement
included the sentence, our philosophy is clear. If players want
to play for their country, they should have that opportunity.
Why would the union stand in their way? What is
your reaction to that?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Well, from a New Zealand perspective, it's really clear. Right,
We've always wanted our best players playing in our domestic competitions.
Our eligibility policy is founded on that premise and to
this sixtent R Sbrey sixty is no different from any
other competition that's come along over the years. We have
(05:17):
made the odd exception around sabbaticalsadn't we piney And it's
probably going to be your next question, but the reality
is those are in competitions that exist within the existing
Rugby ecosystem, not a competition that, for want of more information,
looks like it's a threat to that ecosystem and our
(05:40):
ability to fund our community programs and our pathway.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, I do have sabbaticals written down here, and I
assume that that sabbaticals wouldn't be available in R three sixty.
But what about players who come off contract with you,
go away, play in other countries, then come back home.
Lester fighting Looker the latest example, returned from his time
in France and water Black Jersey again last weekend. Richie
Wonger coming back from Japan next year in the future,
(06:08):
could you see some of your players leaving to play
Rugby three sixty for a season or two and then
coming back.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well, nothing's impossible, Pioney, But there's a big difference between
going and playing for Toulon or going and playing for Tashiba.
And at the moment, what we understand to be going
to play for R three sixty, and that is those
in the competitions I quoted the French competition, the Japanese competition.
(06:40):
They exist within the current rugby ecosystem and that allows
for the profits from the international game and professional rugby
to circle around the system and fund the community game.
And so we've shown some flexibility, we've shown open minds
in the past to support our retention and support our
(07:01):
all Blacks performance. R three sixty appears to be a
step too far, mate, because the money's not going to
come back and float around the system and fund our
clubs and our schools.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Three sixty say, and I guess you have to take
this with a grain of salt. That they have agreements
in place with two hundred players. Do you know how
many of any of those are New Zealanders.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Well, what I can say is that weighing in R
three sixty is not something that's come up in any
All Blacks contract negotiations we've had in the last twelve months.
Our players appear to be really excited by the calendar
of rugby that's available if you're playing in New Zealand
over the next four years. It's not impossible that some
(07:51):
have signed some free contract agreements. By all I'd say
is I really hope the players and agents are doing
the illegal due diligence, that they understand whether those agreements
are binding or are on foot, and have taken advice
(08:12):
on it.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
And this might not be a question for you, given
that you're concern as current players, but do you think
players who reached the end of their contracts with New
Zealand Rugby then a head off shore and this has
happened most regularly to Japan to end their careers, do
you think those sorts of players would be tempted by
R three point sixty as opposed to going and playing
in Japan, for example.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Look, I'm sure there's temptation there because the sorts of
numbers that are being banded about are considerable, right, but
nobody really knows whether they're real, or how they will
be funded, or the economics of a tournament where you know,
(08:57):
it's essentially a traveling roadshow and there's a huge, huge
cost involved in putting on a competition of that order,
and it may well be that the principles and the
funders and behind it can afford to do that. But yeah, look,
I understand the temptation. I think what the national unions
(09:20):
have established, again in the absence of any real engagement
with R three sixty, is that players have got a choice.
And indeed, even the competition still needs to be sanctioned
by World Rugby. And I see that the third that
sanctioning application till the middle of next year. It was
due to be discussed and determined by World Rugby in September.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Do you think it'll get off the ground.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I don't know. I've been in the game and around
the game for a long time we've seen quote unquote
rebel circuits discussed before, or alternative competitions discussed before. Many
have come and gone. I would say R three sixty
(10:13):
has always seemed a little bit more serious to us.
Certainly the discussions around it inside the rugby business have
been ongoing for over twelve months. Probably now will it
get up? I just don't know. It's really a question
probably for players and agents. What I'm focused on is
(10:37):
New Zealand. New Zealand rugby are all blacks and black films.
We've got a really fantastic calendar of rugby coming up
for our best players to participate in. We know they're
really excited about that. Tours to and from South Africa,
British and Irish Lions tours, coming Nations championships, hopefully a
(10:59):
World Club Cup at some point. There's so much to
look forward to. Truly unique five year period coming up
for you know, best players, our teams in black and
that's where our focus is.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Chris, thank you for clarifying New Zealand Rugby's viewpoints so eloquently.
Always appreciate your time. Thanks for taking the call.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
But is your pioney nice to chat?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Nice to tet to you too, Chris. Chris Lenderm, New
Zealand Rugby's general manager of Professional Rugby and Performance, can
you get your views on our three sixty oh eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. Chris Lendrum made New Zealand
Rugby's view pretty clear there, and it's a consistent view,
no change from the stance they've always taken. If you
(11:47):
want to play for the All Blacks, you play Super
Rugby and that stance is paid off. New Zealand Rugby
has every player they want for the next World Cup
contracted to the end of twenty twenty seven, and they
have a dozen or so players contracted Beyond that, they've
done a very good job of making sure our most
i hortant players are locked in.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Now.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
The fact that South Africa and Australia in particular have
joined this United Front is more telling for me because
it's a departure from their policy of selecting players from
outside their own domestic competitions for test matches. So their
involvement in this United Front is a departure from their
(12:31):
normal policy, and Chris Landrum a couple of times pointed
out the fact that proceeds from professional rugby in the
unions that have joined together on this are fed back
into the community, and that is very salent. It's a
salient point. I feel also as though R three sixty
would have more chance of tempting players across if they
(12:52):
were launching in twenty twenty eight, the year after a
World Cup, when we always see an exodus of players,
usually to places like Japan that tends to be the
most common destination for those finishing their international career. I
feel as though that would be a more logical time
for them to launch. And then you ask yourself, which
(13:14):
sorts of players would look at our three P sixty
as an option. It would be most attractive, wouldn't it
to a player who's coming to the end of their
All Blacks career, who's been to a World Cup or
World Cup's plural and as looking for that last contract
or two before they retire and move on to the
next stage of their life. The sorts of players, as
(13:35):
I say, who right now look to finish their careers
up in Japan. There are any number of former All
Blacks up there right now, Sam Kaine, T J. Pettanatta,
Aaron Smith's up there, Brady Retallic, to name a few.
If our three sixty gets off the ground, I feel
like it's the Japanese clubs who should be more worried
because they will have genuine competition for the players who
right now see Japan as their final rugby destination. So
(14:01):
then you look at the current crop of all Blacks
and who might have their head turned by this, And
it's guys, as I say, I've had very good all
black's careers, have been to a World Cup or two,
but who are not now first choice in their position,
and who may or may not go to the next
Rugby World Cup. If I'm R three sixty, those are
(14:22):
the types of guys I'm getting in touch with. I'd
be on the phone straight away to Severes. He's only contracted, incidentally,
until the end of twenty twenty six, not twenty seven.
Ricco Yowani might be an option. Dalton Papolli he might
be an option. Both contracted until twenty twenty seven, but
we know that these things can be gotten out off.
Anton Lennard Brown might be an option. He's contracted until
(14:45):
the end of twenty twenty eight. But again we're talking
about older players. Unless R three sixty are able to
tempt an elite young player into the fold, a first
choice all black who's nearer the start of their career
than the end, then I'm not sure too much has
really changed, and I don't think there's any need for
(15:06):
p or even concern. If if they could tempt Camera
Reguard or Wallace Stiti or Will Jordan, then we would
have a problem, and then we'd have to have another conversation.
Of course, all of this is contingent on R three
(15:27):
sixty actually getting off the ground at all, and I
would love to get an update from them. I'd like
to know if this is all actually a thing or not,
and what impact has the stance from these eight unions
had on their plans. How far down the track are
they to having their competition sanctioned by World Rugby, which,
as you heard Chris Lenham say, hasn't happened yet because
(15:48):
without that it's just a dream, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Now.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
We've reached out several times this week to invite a
representative from R three sixty onto the show. It feels
to me like they'd want to state their case an update.
A berg sports minded New Zealand audience like this show
has on their plans and their progress, but we've had
no reply, and from what I can say, I don't
think any other New Zealand based media outlet has either.
Look the invitation to them remains open and always will.
(16:13):
Very keen to hear from our three sixty about this.
As I say, we've tried and we will keep trying
for more.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
From Weekends Sport with Jason Fine, Listen live to News
Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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