July 11, 2025 • 10 mins
All Blacks coach Scott Robertson is happy to 'pick and stick' as he aims to mould combinations in test rugby.
The only changes Robertson has made for the second test against France in Wellington are injury related, with Caleb Clarke and Patrick Tuipulotu coming into the run-on side.
The likes of Tupou Vaa'i and Billy Proctor get another week at blindside and centre respectively, and Robertson says that's important.
All Blacks legend Conrad Smith joined Jason Pine for a chat about the second test against France, Proctor playing centre, and what he’s been up to in his retirement.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB All second strength.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Frank Side has delivered a first rate performance, but the
All Blacks hang on twin Test number one of twenty
twenty five thirty one, twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
So that was under the roof a week ago in
dneed and pleaded a work on for the All Blacks
and we'll get into that and maybe get your views
on the biggest work ons that are required ahead of
tests too. But great to open the show with one
of our greatest and in fact one of the world's
greatest ever rugby centers. He made his Test debut in
two thousand and four scored with his first touch on
(00:47):
debut against Italy. From two thousand and eight onwards, he
and are nono formed and outstanding and basically undroppable midfield pairing.
He played ninety four Test matches, the most by any
All Black center, scoring twenty six tries. A World Cup
winner in twenty eleven, again in twenty fifteen, and he
played one hundred and twenty six games for the Hurricanes,
(01:10):
captaining the side from twenty twelve until twenty fifteen and
made a member of the New Zealand Order of Merit
for services to rugby in twenty sixteen. Who else but
Conrad Smith who joins us now on the phone. Conrad,
thanks for taking the time. Can we actually start in
your former position? How do you assess Billy Proctor's ability
to become the long term wearer of the thirteen jersey
(01:32):
for the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of Bullief. I think he's
shown real class and promise from what we've seen it
with Super Rugby and with the Hurricanes, and so obviously
the challenge for him is to do that on the
international stage. I think he's got all the skills and
from what I know, the guy the mental game as
(01:56):
well to handle that. So look, I'm really excited. I
love watching the guy play and at the head of
him now he's going to there will be a bit
of luck. You've got to keep himself healthy, he's got
to keep his position in the spot. But I think,
you know again, it's it's like anyone that's starting out.
You don't want to put pressure on someone. But I
(02:18):
think he is up to it and I think he
has the potential to as you solidify that that spot
for however long he wants to. So, yeah, he's an
exciting prospect, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
You mentioned the mental side of the game there, what well,
how important is the is the mental side of playing
in that pretty crucial position in the back line.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Yeah, And I don't think that's the position specific. I
just think that's handling the step up to international ugly.
You've got to be have a good attitude about yourself.
You've got to have a first for knowledge. You've got
to be have that understanding. You know, you've got to
have some confidence, but also willingness to learn. And I
(03:00):
think that's a that's a fine balance. And you know,
so when you when I talk about the mental game,
that's that whole attitude towards you your footy, and attitude
towards being coached and working with teammates and all of that,
and so that that I don't know Billy real well,
I never play with him, haven't haven't coached him, but
I know enough to think that that side is a
(03:24):
street of this game. And in terms of what that
means for anyone at international level, like that's it's the
difference you know, your skill set gets you're there, how
long you start international level is large. It depends on
your mental site, how you can perform under treasure, and
how you work within a team environment. So yeah, that's
(03:46):
why I say it's exciting for him, and there's a
few in that boat, i'd say, within within the current team.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Indeed, the twelve thirteen partnership feels very important on a
rugby field, and we've had some great ones yourself and
mart and who of course for over a decade, Frank
Buns and Walter Little in the nineties. How long do
partnerships like that take to forge and to become really cohesive.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, time is that. That's there's no doubt about that,
and I think everyone you mentioned there would would say
the same. You know, Mar and I I think people
often forget we we started sort of playing competing for
a position back when we met each other two thousand
and two, two thousand and three, and it wasn't until
two thousand and eight that we had an all black
(04:30):
environment that we were at twelve thirteen. So that's a
long time. And then even then, you know, I think
our best rugby was a few years after that as
a partnership, So all of that time is important. You
learner to understand each other's game. And you know I
talked about the mental side before you you understand I
think the key bit is how you your mental side,
(04:53):
so i'd know you know what ma, what made mar
take what he did under pressure and likewise you know
he did the same for me. And when you can
pick those cues up from each other and actually help
you if you are under pressure, how you help your
teammate it out of that position and start thinking clearly
and back on your game. That that's that's the goal
(05:13):
that comes with experience. And look at as I say,
it's often time that you can't put in and speed
that proce he suck with good people around you and
that and that's what I think we were lucky with
some new black environment. I know there's good people doing
that you can't group as well.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
And he's still playing man listn't he? I say, he's
got another contract at the age of forty three. Do
you talk to him at all much? Have you seen
him later?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
It's just warm down willing that I'll be pitched up
with him tonight tomorrow and for sure like that's you know,
you talk about that experience a great thing of rugby,
you know, we we we start there as competitors and
now you end up with best mates. And uh, look,
he's someone he still inspires me the fact that he's
still going and and it's one thing to be still
(05:58):
going at the you know, the Major league rugby, who
was playing in America, but to the signing on a
top fourteen team in France, that's that's some serious he's playing.
So he's he's a frequent athlete and there's no fluke
like you know the guy. He still is professional about
his game as he's ever been and that's the reason
he's still getting contract and he'll he'll keep playing until,
(06:21):
as I say to a few until someone dragged him
off the field. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's
not the last time. Brilliant.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well, we watched with interest to how long he goes?
Can we come back to the to the Test match
tonight off the back of the winning Dunedin last weekend? Conrad,
what do you think the major improvements the coaching staff
in the players will be looking for in the second
Test tonight?
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, I think there'll be a bit, you know, there'll
be some specific things around you know, the high ball
which was a bit of a talking point, and I
think we're better than what we showed on the weekend,
and that can take a bit of a bit of time.
But also just well we talked a bit about the combinations,
but just yea, some of the fluidity on attack. I
(07:05):
actually thought we created some really good opportunities. I was.
I was pretty excited about what I saw in terms
of what they offered, the variation on attack. That's what
I personally love seeing. I get a bit worried when
I see teams becoming really predictable, which I think Rugby
fell into a trap for a few, you know, for
a couple of years, but certainly you know the tribes
(07:27):
being scored nowadays, as in the last sort of twelve
eighty months, teams have really brought different things into their
attack in shape and I liked actually what I saw
last week, and I think is there's just a you know,
one more week of experience and even the training so
they'll get passes that stick and options being taken at
(07:48):
the right times. That yeah, fact a big difference on
a score board.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
And the weather in Wellington always becomes a bit of
a talking point. It looks like it should be okay tonight.
But what was it like playing at sky Stadium on
those those wet, windy nights.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Yeah, you never knew well what you're in for. I mean,
I'm sitting there now it's actually blue skies and feeling
pretty good. I'd love to play, but I know she's
twelve or even twenty minutes of a long time I've
been willing to that can all change. I mean I've
playing enough tests, an Irish one where we are warmed
up and it was clear and fine. By the time
(08:24):
we came to check off, it was dropped something like
six degrees and it was roaring with rain. So that'll
be ready for that. Hopefully it's okay. But in terms
of yeah, the conditions, you just you can't plan too
far ahead. You're just going to be good enough to
adapt to whatever it throws at you. And I'm sure
they would have prepared for that and really really to adapt.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
And as far as your current involvement in the game
of rugby is concerned, Conrad, I know you did some
refereeing up in tananaky and you're on the board of
the Hurricanes Alumni, which helps you know past and current
players with you know, with their transition and some difficult times.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Are you doing any.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Coaching, any official involvement in that way, I'm.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Not coaching so much. I mean I'm the role with
nash Arabi Plas, so that's through World rugby, and we
do a fair bit of work around the game with referees,
around the laws of the game and some of the
trends and what a fluent sort of world rugby can
have on the game itself, what's being played. And hey,
I enjoy that. I love the game. I love staying involved.
(09:30):
Coaching is not really for me, certainly at the moment
I had the face of that, but I certainly you know,
I love staying in fold the greatest game on earth,
and I think we need more people, you know, in
that corner supporting how good it is for even for
kids and for everyone. So I'm certainly one of those.
And my involvement, although it's not directly on the field,
(09:55):
as I say, doing a bit of referring and in
international rugby plas to stay connected, and that's what I
can to make sure the game is still playing great
spirit and the camarader in all the great values that
it teaches us as still to the full. For years
to come, hopefully, good Man.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Conrad, I know you got a busy schedule. Today is
always over test weekend. Thanks for taking some time with us.
Really appreciate you joining us this afternoon, No problem, no,
thank you, Conrad for joining us. Conrad Smith on Weekend
Sport with Us, one of the greatest to ever play
the game, certainly in the number thirteen Jersey.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk st B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB All second strength.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Frank Side has delivered a first rate performance, but the
All Blacks hang on twin Test number one of twenty
twenty five thirty one, twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
So that was under the roof a week ago in
dneed and pleaded a work on for the All Blacks
and we'll get into that and maybe get your views
on the biggest work ons that are required ahead of
tests too. But great to open the show with one
of our greatest and in fact one of the world's
greatest ever rugby centers. He made his Test debut in
two thousand and four scored with his first touch on
(00:47):
debut against Italy. From two thousand and eight onwards, he
and are nono formed and outstanding and basically undroppable midfield pairing.
He played ninety four Test matches, the most by any
All Black center, scoring twenty six tries. A World Cup
winner in twenty eleven, again in twenty fifteen, and he
played one hundred and twenty six games for the Hurricanes,
(01:10):
captaining the side from twenty twelve until twenty fifteen and
made a member of the New Zealand Order of Merit
for services to rugby in twenty sixteen. Who else but
Conrad Smith who joins us now on the phone. Conrad,
thanks for taking the time. Can we actually start in
your former position? How do you assess Billy Proctor's ability
to become the long term wearer of the thirteen jersey
(01:32):
for the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of Bullief. I think he's
shown real class and promise from what we've seen it
with Super Rugby and with the Hurricanes, and so obviously
the challenge for him is to do that on the
international stage. I think he's got all the skills and
from what I know, the guy the mental game as
(01:56):
well to handle that. So look, I'm really excited. I
love watching the guy play and at the head of
him now he's going to there will be a bit
of luck. You've got to keep himself healthy, he's got
to keep his position in the spot. But I think,
you know again, it's it's like anyone that's starting out.
You don't want to put pressure on someone. But I
(02:18):
think he is up to it and I think he
has the potential to as you solidify that that spot
for however long he wants to. So, yeah, he's an
exciting prospect, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
You mentioned the mental side of the game there, what well,
how important is the is the mental side of playing
in that pretty crucial position in the back line.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Yeah, And I don't think that's the position specific. I
just think that's handling the step up to international ugly.
You've got to be have a good attitude about yourself.
You've got to have a first for knowledge. You've got
to be have that understanding. You know, you've got to
have some confidence, but also willingness to learn. And I
(03:00):
think that's a that's a fine balance. And you know,
so when you when I talk about the mental game,
that's that whole attitude towards you your footy, and attitude
towards being coached and working with teammates and all of that,
and so that that I don't know Billy real well,
I never play with him, haven't haven't coached him, but
I know enough to think that that side is a
(03:24):
street of this game. And in terms of what that
means for anyone at international level, like that's it's the
difference you know, your skill set gets you're there, how
long you start international level is large. It depends on
your mental site, how you can perform under treasure, and
how you work within a team environment. So yeah, that's
(03:46):
why I say it's exciting for him, and there's a
few in that boat, i'd say, within within the current team.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Indeed, the twelve thirteen partnership feels very important on a
rugby field, and we've had some great ones yourself and
mart and who of course for over a decade, Frank
Buns and Walter Little in the nineties. How long do
partnerships like that take to forge and to become really cohesive.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, time is that. That's there's no doubt about that,
and I think everyone you mentioned there would would say
the same. You know, Mar and I I think people
often forget we we started sort of playing competing for
a position back when we met each other two thousand
and two, two thousand and three, and it wasn't until
two thousand and eight that we had an all black
(04:30):
environment that we were at twelve thirteen. So that's a
long time. And then even then, you know, I think
our best rugby was a few years after that as
a partnership, So all of that time is important. You
learner to understand each other's game. And you know I
talked about the mental side before you you understand I
think the key bit is how you your mental side,
(04:53):
so i'd know you know what ma, what made mar
take what he did under pressure and likewise you know
he did the same for me. And when you can
pick those cues up from each other and actually help
you if you are under pressure, how you help your
teammate it out of that position and start thinking clearly
and back on your game. That that's that's the goal
(05:13):
that comes with experience. And look at as I say,
it's often time that you can't put in and speed
that proce he suck with good people around you and
that and that's what I think we were lucky with
some new black environment. I know there's good people doing
that you can't group as well.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
And he's still playing man listn't he? I say, he's
got another contract at the age of forty three. Do
you talk to him at all much? Have you seen
him later?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
It's just warm down willing that I'll be pitched up
with him tonight tomorrow and for sure like that's you know,
you talk about that experience a great thing of rugby,
you know, we we we start there as competitors and
now you end up with best mates. And uh, look,
he's someone he still inspires me the fact that he's
still going and and it's one thing to be still
(05:58):
going at the you know, the Major league rugby, who
was playing in America, but to the signing on a
top fourteen team in France, that's that's some serious he's playing.
So he's he's a frequent athlete and there's no fluke
like you know the guy. He still is professional about
his game as he's ever been and that's the reason
he's still getting contract and he'll he'll keep playing until,
(06:21):
as I say to a few until someone dragged him
off the field. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's
not the last time. Brilliant.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well, we watched with interest to how long he goes?
Can we come back to the to the Test match
tonight off the back of the winning Dunedin last weekend? Conrad,
what do you think the major improvements the coaching staff
in the players will be looking for in the second
Test tonight?
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, I think there'll be a bit, you know, there'll
be some specific things around you know, the high ball
which was a bit of a talking point, and I
think we're better than what we showed on the weekend,
and that can take a bit of a bit of time.
But also just well we talked a bit about the combinations,
but just yea, some of the fluidity on attack. I
(07:05):
actually thought we created some really good opportunities. I was.
I was pretty excited about what I saw in terms
of what they offered, the variation on attack. That's what
I personally love seeing. I get a bit worried when
I see teams becoming really predictable, which I think Rugby
fell into a trap for a few, you know, for
a couple of years, but certainly you know the tribes
(07:27):
being scored nowadays, as in the last sort of twelve
eighty months, teams have really brought different things into their
attack in shape and I liked actually what I saw
last week, and I think is there's just a you know,
one more week of experience and even the training so
they'll get passes that stick and options being taken at
(07:48):
the right times. That yeah, fact a big difference on
a score board.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
And the weather in Wellington always becomes a bit of
a talking point. It looks like it should be okay tonight.
But what was it like playing at sky Stadium on
those those wet, windy nights.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Yeah, you never knew well what you're in for. I mean,
I'm sitting there now it's actually blue skies and feeling
pretty good. I'd love to play, but I know she's
twelve or even twenty minutes of a long time I've
been willing to that can all change. I mean I've
playing enough tests, an Irish one where we are warmed
up and it was clear and fine. By the time
(08:24):
we came to check off, it was dropped something like
six degrees and it was roaring with rain. So that'll
be ready for that. Hopefully it's okay. But in terms
of yeah, the conditions, you just you can't plan too
far ahead. You're just going to be good enough to
adapt to whatever it throws at you. And I'm sure
they would have prepared for that and really really to adapt.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
And as far as your current involvement in the game
of rugby is concerned, Conrad, I know you did some
refereeing up in tananaky and you're on the board of
the Hurricanes Alumni, which helps you know past and current
players with you know, with their transition and some difficult times.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Are you doing any.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Coaching, any official involvement in that way, I'm.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Not coaching so much. I mean I'm the role with
nash Arabi Plas, so that's through World rugby, and we
do a fair bit of work around the game with referees,
around the laws of the game and some of the
trends and what a fluent sort of world rugby can
have on the game itself, what's being played. And hey,
I enjoy that. I love the game. I love staying involved.
(09:30):
Coaching is not really for me, certainly at the moment
I had the face of that, but I certainly you know,
I love staying in fold the greatest game on earth,
and I think we need more people, you know, in
that corner supporting how good it is for even for
kids and for everyone. So I'm certainly one of those.
And my involvement, although it's not directly on the field,
(09:55):
as I say, doing a bit of referring and in
international rugby plas to stay connected, and that's what I
can to make sure the game is still playing great
spirit and the camarader in all the great values that
it teaches us as still to the full. For years
to come, hopefully, good Man.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Conrad, I know you got a busy schedule. Today is
always over test weekend. Thanks for taking some time with us.
Really appreciate you joining us this afternoon, No problem, no,
thank you, Conrad for joining us. Conrad Smith on Weekend
Sport with Us, one of the greatest to ever play
the game, certainly in the number thirteen Jersey.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk st B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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