Full Show Podcast: 19 July 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks EDB. Hamilton becomes the heartbeat of All
Blacks rugby with the energy of legends.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
The big names of rugby.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Spirit of the wayutto and the fire of Test match rugby.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
This is it.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is your front row sint to the action, before
the action, sit play.

Speaker 4 (00:31):
From the Roaming Giant.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's Weekend Sport with Jason Vine on your home of
Sport News Talks EDB.

Speaker 5 (00:39):
Yes sday' yot, good afternoon and welcome into Weekend Sport
on News Talks EDB the Saturday edition for July nineteen,
the day of Test Match three for the All Blacks
in twenty twenty five. They meet the French and Hamilton
tonight in the final game of their three Test series,
having already secured the series and the Dave Gallaha Trophy
after wins and Dunedin narrowly and Wellington convincingly. And as

(01:02):
we have been on the last two Test match Saturday's
Weekend Sports again on location and what are location The
show has come to your life today from the Roaming
Giant at seven eight nine Hea Fee Terrace in Hamilton,
Home to the biggest covered garden bar in the city,
as well as several other very cool little hospitality spaces.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
The menu is diverse.

Speaker 5 (01:25):
You can get a cheap snack or a delicious steak
dinner a platter to share with your friends. They've got
a couple of weekly rituals which have become famous, including
their Bottomless Brunch and happy hours as well the name
The Roaming Giant. You might be wondering where that came from. Well,
apparently the circus used to frequent this part of Hamilton

(01:46):
around Claudland's, bringing with it giant animals like elephants and
giraffes and even the odd bear. And there's an old
newspaper article that tells of the disbelief a young boy
experienced on his way home from school one day after
coming face to face with an escaped elephant trying its
best to hide among the trees. And hence the name

(02:07):
of the pub is The Roaming Giant. We thank the
team here for hosting us today. Rugby is a major
focus over the next three hours, unsurprisingly, with a real
Wake Uttle and Chiefs, Flavor Mulus and All Blacks icon.
Stephen Donald is on the show after one o'clock. Another
former All Black, Matthew Cooper also said to join us
here live, as is Steve Gordon.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
He's gonna be part of our commentary tonight on zed Beat.

Speaker 5 (02:30):
We're also going to chat with former All Blacks forwards
coach and now Wallaby's assistant coach Mike Cron ahead of
the first Test between Australia and the British and Irish
Lines and Brisbane tonight. And first up today, I wanted
to chat about the imminent threat of Rugby three sixty,
the organization targeting the world's best players on lucrative contracts

(02:50):
to compete in a breakaway rugby competition. Leading sports agent
Bruce Sharrick standing by the chat with us on that.
Rob Nickel, the boss of the New Zealand Rugby Players
Association of it later on as well, and I'm really
keen for your views on this as well other matters
around today Global Football Sense. Wrexham AFC are in the country.
They meet the Wellington Phoenix from five this afternoon. I

(03:12):
want to bring you an interview with an eighty three
year old Welshman living in Wellington. He grew up watching
Wrexham as a young boy in the nineteen fifties and
we'll get the chance to watch them again in Wellington
seventy years later. His name is David Jones. I spoke
to him earlier this week and i'll play that out
for you. Adam Peacock with his Australian sporting issues as

(03:33):
per usual on a Saturday at around one forty five
Live Sport This afternoon, there's a round Fury Shield Challenge
Taranaki putting the log of Wood on the line against
Thames Valley at the Mania Domain from two o'clock this afternoon.
We'll keep you updated on that. We would love to
have you join the show. Come and see us at
the Roaming Giant if you are in the area. If
you bring your cowbells, we've got a free drink for

(03:53):
the first couple of you and a double pass to
watch the Warriors women take on Canberra at FMG Stadium
on the sixteenth of August. If you can't make it
down eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, we'll get your
throw on the phones nineteen two for your text messages
and emails as always into Jason at newstalksb dot co
dot nz.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Eleven past midday.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
The scoop from the track, fields and the court on
your Home of Sport weekends for it, Where's Jason Vine used, TALKSNB.

Speaker 5 (04:23):
Coming to your Live from the Roaming Giants, and reports
have emerged in recent days that breakaway rugby competition Rugby
three p sixty is gaining some traction. It's designed to
commercialize rugby for modern audiences and media networks and proposes
a radical shift in how rugby is structured and sold.
It promises a fresh format built for digital platforms and

(04:47):
global broadcasters, with fast paced matches, city festivals, and fan
first experiences. It draws heavily on the IPL and the NFL,
city based franchises, no relegation salary caps for parity, and
a short, dynamic calendar. The reported model is of twelve
franchises visit sixteen international venues, and it has reported from

(05:11):
potential backers across the Premier League, Formula One and the NFL,
with multiple bids for franchise slots already under consideration. Now
backers are targeting the three hundred best players in the
world across the men's and women's games. Dozens of elite
players have reportedly signed heads of agreement the world's top

(05:35):
forty stars get this are set to earn more than
two point three million New Zealand dollars per season. That's
the sort of money only a handful of players can
currently command around the globe. And it's not just Rugby
Union players being targeted. Warriors star Roger Tuivasa Schek, Knights
skipper Kayln Ponger and the Storm pair of Ryan Poppenhausen

(05:58):
and Nelson are so for Solomona have been linked to
deals with Rugby three sixty as well, and players who
join aren't Swing four specific franchises, but rather to the
competition itself, with the possibility of actions and drafts being
floated around. So let's find out a bit more about it.
Leading sports agent Bruce Sharrick is with us. Here's a

(06:20):
list of elite clients includes Roger too of Vasishek and
many current All Black stars. Bruce, thanks for joining us
on the show this afternoon. How realistic a concept do
you believe Rugby three point sixty to be?

Speaker 6 (06:37):
Well berth to get a Jason? Look, if you ahead
up asking that question six months ago, out of ten,
I probably would have given it a three or four.
What we continue to see over the six months leading
up to now is a lot of development and a
lot of progress. So you asked me now for remark
From what I know, I've suggest it's probably closer to

(06:59):
an eight.

Speaker 5 (07:01):
So what's happened in the last six months that's that's
bumped that number up.

Speaker 6 (07:07):
Investments the airs of broadcast partners and are willingness to
really charge on with what they see as a concept
back and I guess for the product of rugby union
across the globe, there's.

Speaker 5 (07:21):
Some big numbers being reported. I know you've seen them.
We've all seen them. You know, the likes of over
two million New Zealand dollars per year for some of
the top players. Are these numbers real?

Speaker 6 (07:34):
Yes they are, Jason, I can categorphy tell you that.

Speaker 5 (07:39):
So top players stand to earn over two million New
Zealand dollars per season in rugby three sixty.

Speaker 6 (07:47):
Yes, if they choose to join the concept.

Speaker 7 (07:51):
That's what's been promoted and clearly earlier on where they
were looking for commitments from players, the stakes are a
little bit higher. So like you need initiative, you know,
they are raising mistakes to get some early commitments from players.
And as you can imagine a lot of players are
still sitting on the fence, so you know that men

(08:12):
working through their whole process.

Speaker 6 (08:14):
But the numbers you're talking about, from what I know,
are pretty real.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Where will this money come from?

Speaker 6 (08:22):
Well, you know, I think if we look around the
globe at the moment, there's a real advertise for people
to invest in sporting franchises. We're seeing it in Bracking
at the moment, and I just think there's a collique. Well,
I know there's a collection of people who are minus.

Speaker 7 (08:36):
Shareholders and things are NBA and if how those sorts
of people are coming together to invest in this context.
So that's my understanding. I mean, one of the things
that I think has been faulty reported Jason is Seldi
backing this isn't CELDi money. And so the reality is,
you know, there are genuine and legitimate people who are
investing in the growth of rugby union globally.

Speaker 5 (08:57):
All right, So it's it's basically, I guess very rich
people who want to own a sporting franchise.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Is that what we're talking about in basic terms?

Speaker 6 (09:08):
Yeah, Look, I couldn't comment on I don't know the individual,
So I'll put that up front, and I don't know
whether or not they're of individual wealth. What I do
know as a collective there are certainly a lot of
money being put together to pull together these franchises, which
you know, as I understand now, there have been an

(09:28):
agreement on who those owners are.

Speaker 5 (09:31):
Involvement in this competition will presumably mean for a New
Zealand player foregoing the all Blacks, how strong does the
lure of the black jersey continue to be in keeping
our top players here?

Speaker 7 (09:43):
Well, yeah, you've hit on something that is the critical
point here at the end of the day, this concept
has gone through the front field of World Rugby, World Rugby,
and all of the unions are aware of it, They've
met with them, and they're looking to be sanctioned as
a genuine competition. So I mean, to answer your question,

(10:04):
it is the biggest leader and the reason why a
lot of players havn't committed yet. I mean, clearly we've
got a World Cup in twenty twenty seven and for
those players to effectively put that at risk because we
don't know the position of the national unions and the
participation of players from their countries to speederate countries. So yeah, look,
it still has a pull without doubt, but I think

(10:27):
the hope is and you know, Jason, I think for
those old enough, if we go back to the mid
nineties when Kerry Packer tried to come up with a
rebel competition, ironically the concept was very similar. What he
wanted to do was taking competition global, and he wanted
to take a competition around the world to elevate the
sort of rugby union. Clearly what that triggered was New

(10:48):
Zealan being one of them, but a lot of unions
becoming professional. Who knows what this may trigger and what
it may do spring you know, I guess the game
together and go, how do we elevate this game of
rugby to be relevant globally for the next twenty five years?

Speaker 5 (11:03):
So Rugby three sixty, if it becomes sanction then would
presumably run alongside the international program. But what about all
of the other club programs. We talk about Super rugby,
A player surely couldn't play Super rugby Rugby three sixty
and for the All Blacks.

Speaker 7 (11:19):
Correct, And I think that's where where the parties need
to sit down and see if here with some little
points here, what they have done with the calendar that's
been promoted is they're a windows for international rugby. I
think for us here in New Zealand the Rugby Championship
would need to be realigned. But as you know, there
are conversations about trying to align those calendars anyway. And

(11:39):
you're right, they couldn't play three to six the international
rugby and the domestic comp So that's where the pressure
point is in my head at least, And again I.

Speaker 6 (11:46):
Don't know that.

Speaker 7 (11:47):
I'm just surmising it as someone who's observed the industry
over many many years. Your domestic competition being Super Rugby
here and Premiership and Top fourteen in France, et cetera,
that is going to be challenged because if you take
out of it twenty thirty forty leading players from those competitions,

(12:08):
there's a real discussion to be had whether or not
that domestic comp is then the premier comp domestically. So look,
I don't have the answer to that. I guess my
role in all of this is to try and understand
how real it is and provide these options to our players,
and clearly Roger is one of those.

Speaker 8 (12:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (12:28):
As I say, we're charged with the responsibility of being
aware of global rugby in Wasson and now which was
formerly U SPORTIFU are the most connective agency globally and
we're very close to it, so we understand what's going wrong.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
How should New Zealand Rugby be reacting to.

Speaker 6 (12:43):
This with an open mind?

Speaker 7 (12:46):
In my view, Look, there are a lot of considerations
and if I get it from the New Zealand rank perspective,
you know, the major revenue streams are coming from broadcast,
They're coming from sponsors and effectively coming from walk up crowds.
So you know, if sky TV is an examples all
the watered down Super Rugby competition and circ AE hundred

(13:11):
million turned into fifty million. That's a financial challenge. But
is there a way around this? I don't know. I'm surviving.

Speaker 6 (13:17):
I guess what.

Speaker 7 (13:18):
I'm motivated by, Jason and excited by is this an
opportunity for us to sit down and see if we
can engage a wider global community of rugby fans and
really elevates the game and give it relevant for another
quarter of a decade.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Do you think it is? Do you think it could be?

Speaker 8 (13:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (13:36):
I do you know, with the right people at the
helm and sitting around. I mean, I think on the
pure commercials of it, there is a group of people
who have or are looking to invest circa two fifty
odd millions it's outside investment into this game. They clearly
have a commercial model that they're looking at that seeds
some return on it. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

(13:57):
So you know, there are some very smart people. I
know for a fact that they're resourcing up. They've got
a finance division, they've got a legal division, and they're
building an operations division because you've got to move a
rugby circus around the globe for eighteen weeks of the year,
and that is the concept that's going to I guess,
really well known destinations globally and playing a series and

(14:20):
carnival of footy on a Friday, of international world class
concept potentially on a Saturday, and rolling into another set
of games on a Sunday, and the fans of those
respective cities would be taking in some high level rugby union.

Speaker 5 (14:36):
You're doing your job as an agent by presenting these
options whatever they might excuse me, whatever they might be,
to your clients. What, without being specific about players, what's
the general feedback you're getting when you're presenting the rugby
three sixty concept.

Speaker 7 (14:53):
Yeah, look, eyes wide open as the first reaction. However,
again it's our role. If someone holds an inspiration to
play international rugby, then enter with extreme caution because at
this stage you do not want to put that at ricks.
So many of our current internationals are aware of the competition,
but you know it's not the thing for them at

(15:13):
this stage. It really isn't. But there are many other
players both not only here in New Zealand, but expat
playing in Japan, playing in France, playing in the UK
that could be coming off contractor in twenty six or
twenty seven and say, hey, there's another conference, another option.
Should we be looking at it? So you know, that's
our role, as you say, to put it in front

(15:34):
of them and to give them choice. And the way
that I see it, I guess is that it's another
international competition that players who, once they feel they may
have exhausted their domestic opportunity, can look further afield and
maybe engage in it.

Speaker 5 (15:49):
When the IPL came, and it was only the IPL,
if we use a cricket analogy, now there are any
number of franchise leagues around the world Bruce. Can you
ever see a time when rugby becomes a bit like
cricket with more than one option of this type available
to players?

Speaker 8 (16:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (16:07):
Look, I guess I can. And that's the sort of
individual I am. You know, I don't like sitting spell
and who knows, it'll be a bit beyond my time
in the game.

Speaker 6 (16:18):
But you know, if we're going to maintain.

Speaker 7 (16:20):
Relevance, we have to move with what the world is doing,
and maybe cricket is a model. Let me look at
you know, there are certain things within rugby that you know,
I treat you like everybody else, and it's the heritage,
it's the past, it's the tradition. To me, you hang
on to those the best you can. It's but you
can't live in the past, and you have to come
forward in some way, shape or form to maintain relevance

(16:42):
with a new audience. I mean, the people consuming a
product today are totally different to what they're with when
you and I were watching the past, so really worse.

Speaker 5 (16:51):
So Rugby three sixty is not a fairy tale, I
don't think so.

Speaker 7 (16:56):
As I say I would market in eight out of
ten given what I know, we're going to know within
the next two or three months whether or not this.

Speaker 6 (17:04):
Is the reality, and so you know that it's something that.

Speaker 7 (17:08):
Needs to be considered in certain exits about a broad
level and around the place because you know, and I
said this the other night, HI didn't stand for me.
Is not a strategy. The things are happening around you.
I'd rather be part of a change and not told
what to do as a result of a change. So
you know, engage further, find out what's going on, find

(17:28):
out if there is some middle ground, and we can
turn rugby and we all come together with the united
interest here that is to make rugby a very very
relevant sports globally. And if we can do that on
the back of private and new investment, why wouldn't.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
You terrific insight and hugely interesting comments from you, as always, Bruce,
our audience will have a lot to say. I'm sure
thanks for joining us this afternoon, mate, Thanks.

Speaker 7 (17:53):
So much, and go to the All Black suceeding Yeah, go.

Speaker 5 (17:55):
The All Blacks. Indeed, thanks Bruce, Bruce Sharik. They're one
of our leading sports agents. With some very very interesting thoughts. Indeed,
your chance to react now, I know you're going to
have something to say on this eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty. Now, before chatting to Bruce, a huge part
of me wondered if Rugby three point sixty was real
because the numbers that are being talked about in terms

(18:18):
of salaries here are massive, and that money has to
come from somewhere. If it's the IPL model that is
used in cricket, then that money comes from the franchise owners.
Because broadcast money is nowhere near what it used to be.
Sky and New Zealand Rugby still haven't landed on their

(18:38):
new broadcast deal, but when they do, it'll be less
than the current one. This is happening everywhere. The sports
rights market isn't what it used to be, so you're
relying rarely on multi millionaire owners or ownership groups who
want a new toy to throw some of their money into,

(18:58):
and throwing it into what could be a bottomless pit
with no chance of a return on that investment. And
often that doesn't matter too that really cashed up sporting
franchise owners who just want to own a sporting franchise.
That's okay, but you still need to find those owners.
But by what Bruce was saying, those conversations are well

(19:20):
and truly advanced. Then you start looking at the type
of player who would be attracted to this new competition,
and in particular New Zealand plants. Anybody who's in the
All Blacks right now will have their eyes on the
next Rugby World Cup. Every member of the current squad
will be targeting twenty twenty seven. Otherwise they wouldn't be there.

(19:43):
They're not going to make it, of course, but they'll
all want to be there. So there's no way in
the world any of the current All Blacks are going
to have their head turned by this. Will Jordan Cameroy,
Gardadi Savia, Cody Taylor. These guys aren't going to have
their head turned by three sixty Rugby three sixty before
the next World Cup afterwards, maybe, but not now. So

(20:05):
you can take our our top forty players, take them
off the table straight away for Rugby three sixty, and
you leave them off there until.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Twenty twenty eight at the very earliest.

Speaker 5 (20:18):
And I think you can also probably take off the
table the vast majority of super rugby players under the
age of about twenty five twenty six who still have
that carrot of the black jersey in front of them.
They will forego that chance if they sign for Rugby
three sixty. In other words, you're not going to really

(20:39):
get guys in their prime. You'll get players who still
have a bit of gas in the tank, but who
have fulfilled their All Blacks dreams and are looking for
a few more years at the end of their career
at the best money possible, and at the moment those
opportunities are in Japan and in the UK, and to
Willy suits end up in the US as well. If
Rugby three sixty takes off, then it's clubs in those

(21:01):
countries who have been attracting former All Blacks who will
have some competition. And there are also players who know
they're never going to be an All Black probably and
want to cash in on the opportunities that are presented
to them in very much the same way that players
now decide to go to Japan and to Europe. The

(21:21):
money is good and the time is right, so many
will go. And my gut feel around this is if
you want to go, you should go. If you're a
player and you see this opportunity and you believe it
to be real, you should go. No one is stopping
any player in New Zealand from taking advantage of the

(21:42):
free market. If Rugby three six three sixty turns out
to be real, then it's a great opportunity for a
certain type of player to cash in on their rugby ability.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
But rumors of.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
The demise of the All Blacks because of it are
well and truly out of whack. This won't spell the
end of the All Blacks. If this year has shown
us anything, how special that All Blacks Jersey still is,
how special it is to duplasy Kadifi, to Fabian Holland,
to Christian Leo Willy, to Ollie Norris, to to Mothy

(22:16):
tavatav Nawhy, to Bradley Slater when he gets on tonight,
the All Blacks will survive. O eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty is our number. Got a few coming through
on text, but keny hee youewha's want to chat to
Rob Nickel before one o'clock as well to get his
view on this from a New Zealand Rugby Players Association
point of view. But having listened to Bruce Sharrick, your

(22:37):
views are welcome. O eight hundred eighty ten eighty ninety
two nine two is the text line. Approaching twelve thirty
broadcasting Weekend Sport live from the Roaming Giant and Heath
Feed Terrace in Hamilton this afternoon. Back with more of
your calls after.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
This Live from the Roaming Giant in Hamilton. It's Weekend
Sport with Jason Fine and g J.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Gunner Homes New Zealand's most trusted home builder News Talks.

Speaker 5 (23:02):
That'd be great to be at the Roaming Giant and
Heath Feed Terras, Hamilton as we build towards tonight's rugby
test All Blacks France third in the three match series.
We're talking at the moment about rugby three sixty though
in the threat that it might pose or not.

Speaker 8 (23:17):
Hello John, Yes, just listening to your comments about the
all black players who are in line for the World Cup.
If all of the top nations do that, then this
rugby three sixty will not be a great Spitta. Colin
too out to twenty twenty seven will no.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
You're right, You're right.

Speaker 5 (23:39):
It's an interesting time to try and launch it, John,
that's a very good point. It seems more logical to
launch it off the back of the World Cup when
a few players are as they always do at the
end of a World Cup cycle coming towards the end
of their international careers, but are still looking for their
next contract, if you know what I mean.

Speaker 8 (23:56):
Yes, that's that's why, honest opinion, and that's why I
really don't Well, rugby needs to get a come competition
going involve all were top players.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
How can they do that? Though? John, I think that
most of the players will.

Speaker 5 (24:13):
Every player at the moment plays in a club competition
most of the time in their own country or in
another country. I don't know whether World Rugby has to
stand up another competition here.

Speaker 8 (24:24):
Well, I mean they had talked about the competition involving
sides like supersides playing, haven't they the Northern Southern hempspheare?
I mean, if they could get that going top, we're
sure He's backers would put their money into that. And
the other thing concerns me is considering the fact that

(24:48):
Saudi Arabia just brought every sport there is now, how
much backing is coming from there.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
Well, according to Bruce John Nunn, he just said then
that he thinks that's been misreported that there is not
Saudi backing for this. I guess that remains to be seen.
And as you say with out of Arabia, very very keen,
very very keen to to get involved in all sorts
of sports. You know, you wouldn't put it past them

(25:17):
to be involved as a as an owner of one
or more of these franchises, but apparently that is not
not in the mix at the moment. According to Bruce Sharrick,
I appreciate your call, John oh eight one hundred and
eighty ten eighty Kelvin, I'm in your.

Speaker 10 (25:29):
Town, yes, very big. Welcome to you, Jason. And now
right across the road from where you are from that pub.
Last time I was in there, had a couple of
beers after funeral. But right across the road from you,
the big building there is where they have all the
big netball games, the magic and that. And when you're
looking out towards that building, it looks like the builders

(25:51):
left in a hurry and left all the planks and
scaffolding behind. But it's to make it's to impress everybody evident.
But anyway, to the lefts of that used to be
the big old wooden Grand sand where the cross the
horse cross trotting used to be, and also the grayhound
racing was there as well, and.

Speaker 5 (26:10):
That's Globox are any you're talking about. Oh, yes, we
drove past it on the way down here. I was there, Prestkelvin.

Speaker 10 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, commonly cool Wallace Claudin's arena. But the Glowbox
is the commercial name. And just if you cross the
road and head one hundred meters south on the left
end's corner is a weatherboard building, probably a grocery shop,
and is a round, rusty steel ring set into the building.
And that's a proper or a ring it is, And
that's where you tie your horse up to.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
Okay, Calvin Well, I don't have one with me, but
if I did, that's where i'd go.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Thank you, my friend.

Speaker 5 (26:43):
Good to be in your town, I think, I said,
Bradley Slater. I meant Brody McAllister. Thank you Tony for
pointing that out to me on text.

Speaker 11 (26:50):
Evan, Hello, mate, how long does a through sexty season
go for?

Speaker 5 (26:56):
It's eighteen weeks apparently, twelve teams playing sixteen games across
eighteen weeks.

Speaker 12 (27:04):
And we'll maybe some all that take a tabbatical tour
rather well.

Speaker 5 (27:09):
I appreci Yeah, good point, ev And yeah, they what
they're saying is they're going to break for international windows,
although from what I've seen, and Rob Nickel might be
able to clarify this, it looks as that I've only
really thought about the Northern Hemisphere international windows rather than
the Southern Hemisphere ones.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
But that's the way they want to do it.

Speaker 5 (27:26):
They want to run this competition and still allow international
rugby to happen. But what does international rugby look like
when somebody from New Zealand who signs up for Rugby
three sixty presumably doesn't play for the All Blacks.

Speaker 6 (27:39):
Okay, now, Albert, I'm just wondering about those two points.

Speaker 13 (27:42):
Good.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
I appreciate your call, mate, Thanks indeed, Peter.

Speaker 11 (27:45):
Hello mate, Yeah, how you doing there?

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Very good, Peter.

Speaker 14 (27:49):
Good question. Have you watched the Team LESSO series?

Speaker 3 (27:54):
You know what?

Speaker 5 (27:54):
I haven't, Peter, And I know, like you're about the
thousandth person who's mentioned this to me, and I know
I should, but I haven't.

Speaker 14 (28:02):
There's a wonderful part where this Nigeria billionaire comes in
and he wants to buy up all these teams and
start his own league. And the speech that one of
the characters, Rebecca gives in response to it, That's how
I'm feeling at the moment. It's like these guys they
can come in and swoop up the traditions of the game. Yes,

(28:27):
those things aren't for sale. They shouldn't be for sale.

Speaker 5 (28:32):
It's a very interesting point you make, Peter, and I
look around and I see you look at cricket, right,
and cricket is probably the most traditional of sports. And
you know, thirty years ago you and I could have
had this conversation saying, look, the traditions of cricket are
not for sale. But you look at now the IPL
and what that's led to, and the number of franchise
leagues now, and the traditions of cricket have meant very

(28:56):
little to those who have stood these competitions up.

Speaker 14 (29:01):
Yeah, very much so. I mean, I mean, what's happened
to the testa and what's happened to the one? It's
pretty much all twenty hits and Googles.

Speaker 13 (29:09):
Now.

Speaker 14 (29:09):
I'm not saying that there's not a place for that,
but again, the traditions of cricket, where have that gone?

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Well?

Speaker 14 (29:18):
That?

Speaker 5 (29:18):
Yeah, Look, I mean I'm probably not the target audience
for franchise cricket if I'm honest, Peter. I love my
Test matches and you might be a similar generation to me.
You're probably a bit younger, but you know, I feel
like you like the traditional side of sport as well.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
So look, where have the tradition's gone.

Speaker 5 (29:38):
They still exist, I think in the international game, But
as far as any kind of allegiance or tribalism, if
we bring this back to rugby, I'm just not sure
how these franchises will be able to engender that in people.

Speaker 14 (29:56):
Yeah, that's the whole thing. It's just they don't see
rugby or sport in general as is something that drives
their passions, that that they feel attached to. They see
it as a product.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Bang on, Peter.

Speaker 14 (30:19):
Yeah, and if they take it as a product, if
it becomes their product and not their passion, what's what's
happened to it? Where where we livet in the meets?

Speaker 5 (30:29):
Our passion has become their products, Peter. All the peas,
make all the peas, and you're dead. You're dead, right?
And Look, And I really don't think they care when
I say they talking about the those behind competitions like this,
I'm not sure that they care, which you know, rightly
or wrongly, is probably a fact. Yeah, we have this

(30:52):
conversation a lot around rugby and about you know, the
the NPC and what that used to be and the
tribalism that was created and is still created by that.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
But in fact of matter is.

Speaker 5 (31:01):
That you know, it's a it's a competition that is
that is struggling. But yeah, it's a very very interesting
time for the game of rugby and all sport.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Rarely Peter good to chat to youre mate twelve forty
We're going to take a break. When we come back.

Speaker 5 (31:17):
Rob Nickel from the Players Association with his view on this.
After one o'clock we're joined by I think way Cuttle's
favorite rugby son beaver Stephen Donald here after one o'clock.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
Counting down to All blacksby France.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
On Your Home of Sport, It's Weekend Sport Live from
the Roman Giants in Hamilton.

Speaker 4 (31:37):
With Jason Pime and GJ.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Gunner homes New Zealand's most trusted home builder News Talks
ed B.

Speaker 5 (31:43):
Twelve forty four on News Talks Hebb, the Roaming Giants
started to fill up with a lot of lunchtime punters
ahead of tonight's action at FMG Stadium. Coming to your
Life here on News Talks EDB of course, talking Rugby
three sixty, let's get a view from the players, or
certainly the body that represents them. Rob Nickel is the
chief executive of the New Zealand Rugby Players Association. He's
with us now, Rob, thanks for your time this afternoon.

(32:05):
What is your reaction to the revelations this week about
Rugby three sixty and its potential impact on the game here?

Speaker 12 (32:14):
Yeah, good Afthenon Jason. Look, it's been around now for
nearly eighty months, so is there nothing new or surprising
for us or accredited agents or a large number of
the players. I guess there's a couple of key dates
for the manner emerging. I think Septembers are pretty important
time in terms of if they want to launch next year,
they need a few things ticked off by then, and

(32:34):
so it's become of a more public and this before agency,
and you know, they're looking to get off us out
to players around the world to try and to try
and stand.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
Up the league.

Speaker 12 (32:44):
But it's not you know, it's not the first time
and it won't be the last time that we have
private interest looking to start rugby competitions. And it's good.
It's good that people see us forward to something interesting
and they want to invest in it, and they want
to they want to create some activity and probably disrupting
sort of it.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
It's good, as you say, it's not the first time.
Do you believe this one has leaks?

Speaker 12 (33:09):
Well, they certainly, you know when we've met with them
a number of times now with the as of the
guys driving, and they certainly don't seem to be lacking
the capital based on what they're representing, and they're certainly
they're certainly talking the game and they're taking action and
they're moving forward. But there's also, as there is these things,
a lot a lot of questions that have yet to

(33:30):
be answered and only be sort of answered in the
fullness of time. Yes, it is a little bit difficult
to sort of say is this definitely going to happen?
Is they're not. You know, we've had competitions in the
past where players have literally signed let us have intention
that have just called us and you don't hear anything
about it. I think a couple of years ago we
had the twelves. We've got a couple of sevens tournaments,

(33:52):
one out of the state's, one out of out of
the Middle East being bandied around at the moment as well,
and we had one in India actually ran two months ago.
It was sort of like an IPL equivalent for seven's
rugby and was really successful and job that one was
supposed to be stood up two years ago, but they
finally got enough and running this year. So you just

(34:13):
it's really just really hard to tell, to be perfectly honest,
and where we just explain to the players and their
credited agents just to be really sensible, go through the detail,
make sure you really have a strong understanding of what
you're considering and what the implications are and what you're signing.
Get good advice and work through a good process.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
There's the money that's being talked about big enough to
turn the heads of players here, particularly those younger ones.
You can see, you know, older players have had their
all blacks career, they go off and play in Japan
or the UK.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
That sort of thing.

Speaker 5 (34:50):
Is the money on offer here big enough to show
your heads of younger players.

Speaker 12 (34:54):
It's quite funny this particular of the office that are
going around and the money that's been put on table
for three six it's enough to get retired players out
of here. It's made it it's not too bad. Yeah,
it's certainly the biggest the offers that are coming on
the table. It's the biggest we've seen in rugby. And
if they stand behind and that's what they're going to

(35:16):
be playing players for two or three years, it's it's
life changing changing figures in the context of rugby union,
that's sure.

Speaker 5 (35:24):
So in the in the words of the famous Queen song,
is this real life or is it just fantasy?

Speaker 2 (35:29):
What's your gut feel?

Speaker 12 (35:31):
Well, the credibility of the people that have been involved.
You know, they come from a background of one of
the biggest sports agencies in the world, and they've been
in rugby. Mike Tindall, I mean everyone knows, you know
Mike Tindall as a player and a personally and a
figure up in the UK. You know, a couple of
the agents that are involved running running this have been

(35:52):
around rugby for a long time. So they clearly believe
this is God merit and they clearly believe they've got
the substance to pull it off. But I guess it's
like all good things, and whether you're in sport or whatever,
you come up with an idea and you're like, this
is a really good idea. One goes yeah, yeah, and
then ye say okay, can we make a business case here?
And you make a business case and then you might
get to invest the same year. It's good, Okay, well

(36:14):
we'll do the plan, and then you do your business
plan and investors come along and say, yes, we're committed
will vestiness business plan. But you've got to implement an
implementation that almost doesn't matter what sort of business or
thing you're starting up, particularly in sport, that's where the
rubber hits the ground, and it's not straightforward, and it's
not easy, and the things that you bought, you had

(36:34):
planned for will almost definitely not pan out that way.
And I think that's that's what I've always observed these
private leagues, whether it's in rugby corrector network football, whatever
it might be, you always met with the unexpected or
roadblocks that you didn't anticipate. Or in our context of rugby,
they need World Rugby sign off to be able to

(36:57):
stage their game unless they want to bear a so
called rebel league. They have said that they will release
players for international duty, but in putting their schedule together
and actually think about the Southern hemispherence nationals and at
the end of the day, if plays in this league,
they won't be able to be able to play for
the All Blacks or even Australia or South African Rugby
Championship for example. So there's there. They're coming at the

(37:21):
implementation phase. They're coming across a lot of things I
think that they hadn't planned for, and so this this
is when the rubber hits around and we'll just see
whether they'll be able to navigate their way through that
or around us or smash their way through it. I
guess it's all going to play out in front of us.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Do you think they will?

Speaker 12 (37:38):
I honestly don't know, Fanny, I really don't know. I
think I don't think it will happen necessarily as quickly
as they would like it. I think they're going to
come across a couple of issues that they're going to
have to eat and take time to resolve or you know,
I don't imagine the L and R or the end
of premiership going to be that happy of complaining tournaments

(37:59):
in their backyard and in contracting their players, you know
how the FEF are. Then it's quite a northern hemus.
They're focusing at the moment. You know, how do some
of those established competitions and unions feel, How do World
Rugby feel about it? Do they want to put up
some barriers or are they going to roll out the
red carpet. It's yeah, I honestly, I can't really give
an opinion other than say, it's another league that's out there.

(38:21):
We're taking it seriously, We're engaged with them. The players
that are receiving offers are taking it seriously and looking
at it closely. But it's not the first and it
won't be the last one.

Speaker 5 (38:32):
Great to get your insight, Rob, thanks so much for
joining us up that I Matt really appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (38:36):
Yeah, not so much help on it.

Speaker 12 (38:38):
Actually measure if you know, if you're out there thinking
about it, is what's going to happen and you never
learned anything there to do? But no, we'll see what happens.
And the one thing I would say is, you know,
fifteen twenty years ago when the stuff was going around,
we went the private players to speak. We went as
organized as we are now, were really quite organized. Most
players have got very confident agents and people there to

(39:00):
be able to talk to. We've got really established methodologists
of what you've got to check, and we've got lots
of avenues. The player can really understand what it means
to them and their careers and their families and things
like that, so there's no excuses. And in terms of players,
this is good advice and make decisions that work for them,
So that's one.

Speaker 5 (39:20):
Good thing about it, and they're good to know our
plaza are in safe hands again. Thanks Rob, appreciate your times, buddy.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
No good on you, mate.

Speaker 5 (39:27):
That's Rob Nikola, Chief executive Officer of the New Zealand
Rugby Players Association.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
It's just so interesting to see where this will go.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
Like Rob said, you know, this isn't the first of
these that's come across the desk of players and player
agents and those involved in the Players Association. Look, they
always look good on a PowerPoint presentation, don't they. But
when the rubber hits the road, as Rob said, there,
that is when we get a real idea about it.
From what Bruce Sharick was saying, he believes this one

(39:55):
to be well advanced. Others I think are less sure
about it. What is sure is that it will be
very interesting to see how it plays out over the
next little while. Seven and a half away from one
talks he'd be and Weekend Sport coming to your live
this afternoon from the Roaming Giant seven eight nine.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
He feed terraces in Hamilton back in the mo.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Live from the Roaming Giant at Hamilton ahead of the
All Blacks fe Frances Weekend Sport with Jason Pine and GJ.
Gardner Holmes, New Zealand's most trusted home builder on your
home of Sport News.

Speaker 5 (40:28):
Talks V four to one here in Hamilton at the
Roaming Giant News at one and then one of Hamilton
Rugby Like I thought Rugby Chief Rugby's favorite sons, the
Beaver Stephen Donald, is he going to chat to him
after one o'clock about rugby matters past and present. He's
obviously involved in coverage of the game now as a

(40:50):
commentator on Skyes. He's going to join us with some
thoughts about tonight, but also just want to talk about
some of the famous moments, one in particular from his
rugby career. Stephen Donald after one great show, says Jamie
talking about Passion Finals day in Central Otago today. A
shout out to our upper Kluther Ram taking on their
old rivals Wakatipu from Queenstown, Beautiful Day and Wanica Club Rugby,

(41:11):
gum boots and big bottles only nine dollars.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Can't get better than that, Jamie simply cannot get better
than that. Thank you for your calls and text. We're
back after one with Stephen.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Donald bringing you the build up the Battle Elevanta as
we count down to All Blacks fe.

Speaker 14 (41:32):
France and a new era of All Black rugby is underway.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
LA It's Weekend Sports with Jessente Lave from The Roaming
Giant and Hamilton on your home of Sports new Stalk SIV.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Here's indeed welcome and welcome back to the show.

Speaker 5 (41:47):
One Oa do im Jason Pine come into your life
from the Roaming Giants and Hamilton seven eight nine. He
feeds terrasts starting to fill up with the lunchtime crowd
as they build towards a seven oh five kickoff tonight
at FMG Stadium and Hamilton. The All Blacks take on
France in the third match in their three Test series.
Our lines of communication open all afternoon. Oh eight hundred
and eighty eighty get to throw on the phone nine

(42:07):
two ninety two on text and some guests to enjoy
a chat with, including our next one. When you think
of rugby in this part of the country, a few
names spring instantly to mine, most notably our next guest.
He actually played this first NBC rugby games for Counties
while he was still at school in two thousand and one,
then moved to Waycuttor in two thousand and four debut

(42:30):
for the Chiefs and five went on to become their
all time leading points scorer eight hundred and eighty six
points one hundred and five matches, still second only to
Damien Mackenzie. Played for New Zealand under twenty one so
the junior All Blacks, and made his full All Blacks
debut against England in two thousand and eight. Went on
to play twenty five times for the All Blacks, including

(42:51):
twenty three Test matches, the last of which provided one
of the most iconic moments in our sporting history.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Thirty five out dead in front, he moves in, he
likes it.

Speaker 15 (43:02):
There's a little skimminus over hay Well our back at
the twenty two Stephen Donald popped up.

Speaker 5 (43:10):
Everyone knows where they were when he kicked that goal.
In the twenty eleven Rugby World Cup Finals, Since then,
he's been and continues to be a radio host, podcaster, entrepreneur,
rugby coach and commentator, analyst with skysport No and universally
as Beaver Stephen Donald.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Nice to see you, mate, Great to be here, poney,
how are you mate? I'm very good. It's so good
to see you.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
Can you go anywhere in this town without us being
asked for a selfie or will we stop for a chat?

Speaker 16 (43:34):
It's good, it's I don't live in Hamilton anymore, but
I've been down all morning watching my beautiful nieces play
net Border start with at eight point thirty and then hockey.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
At ten thirty. And yeah, I love being down here.

Speaker 16 (43:46):
It's a wonderful public And yeah, he said, it's a
wonderful part of my life. And I always feel like,
you know, obviously born and bred Wayuku, but this is
always I talk about home. This is you know, sitting
there place that I feel like it's home for me.

Speaker 13 (44:00):
You know.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Good on your mate, Well you you look right at
home now.

Speaker 5 (44:03):
Last night or yesterday late afternoon you coached the Classics
against the pacifica Legends of Eaton Park.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
How did that go?

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Yeah? It was good.

Speaker 16 (44:12):
If anyone saw it on Sky TV last night, you'd
have had a laugh. Obviously, a lot of us, well
a lot of us, all of us well and truly passed,
are used by date, but great fun and a great concept.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Of course.

Speaker 16 (44:27):
Classics is born out of the classic All Blacks that
the Great Andy, the late great Andy Hayden was the
big driving force behind it, and then a wonderful, wonderful story.
His kids now have picked up the bat and then
just called the Classics, obviously due to legal reasons, but
they're running it. And although it's a lot of fun

(44:48):
for the guys to get together and play games and socialize,
it really is a wonderful void filled for guys post career.
And you know, we do live a wonderful life as
far as our careers go. But you know, and it
shouldn't but we don't feel sorry for it yourselves. But
once you walk out of an environment where you've got

(45:10):
thirty five of your best mates and your front out
into what I call the real world, it's it can
be harsh, and things like getting to give up a
couple of times a year or whatever, like the Haydens
are now carrying on, is wonderful and they're doing God's
worker stars. I'm concerned in a small way for the
for the rugby players. I and we've got a great
game next week against fong Andui at the legendary Cooks Garden.

(45:34):
And again although it's wonderful for us to get together
as former.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
Teammates and opponents.

Speaker 16 (45:40):
Also, I love the thing that the last couple of years,
last year we went to Fongolai and played in Northland.
This year Cooks Garden Wanganui MPC team is people like,
the names are pretty impressive and next week's team is
even more blockbust than the last night's team. And the
fact is people Fongui would have seen that caliber player.
I know, you know, pass these wadys, but that caliber

(46:01):
player and in the community, and the boys will be
down there for four days straight next week.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
So looking forward to that.

Speaker 5 (46:06):
Mate, you talk about that move to the real world,
and there are so many challenges I'm sure with that financial, physical,
but the friendship stuff. You spend all day every day
with thirty five of your best mates yep, and all
of a sudden that's gone.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
How challenging is that?

Speaker 17 (46:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (46:20):
And I guess I found it pretty challenging.

Speaker 16 (46:25):
Something because the fact that it is it is essentially
you don't realize what you've got until it's gone.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
And mine left with COVID.

Speaker 16 (46:33):
Really I finished in Japan and SEID and catch off
COVID and came back and for six months, you know,
I was I know, we were all sort of getting
up in the morning, going right, how I'm going to
fill in today because we weren't allow to go an anybody
our house. But I found an extremely difficult just routine.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
You know.

Speaker 16 (46:50):
I was always someone that because I had to work
so hard to get where I did, because I wasn't talented,
I sort of would take every box and I used
to think myself, Oh, I can't wait till I'm finished playing.
I'll drink and eat pies. And then you know, you
wake up and all of a sudden, a month into
this new freedom, and you're like, she's an't I supposed
to be somewhere or where's my next training? You know?

Speaker 3 (47:10):
And I can eat what I want or I can
drink what I want, you.

Speaker 16 (47:12):
Know, And all of a sudden, you know, the structure
of life is tough to get hold of. And then
you're not being around guys, and then going through you
feel isolated and like.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
He's killing males being what they are.

Speaker 16 (47:24):
We don't bring up each other and go, geez's struggle
because I don't know what to do now, you know,
And and then you know, getting into the real world.
I mean, you're yourself for a reason why my cushion
was a lot softer because you got.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Me a job.

Speaker 16 (47:36):
But there are guys, and I know, for six months
I was thinking what am I going to do? You know,
And I know the guys that really struggle. And you
talk about the paycheck and we are blessed with the
paycheck we get while playing. But then all of a
sudden you get used to that, and your family and
your wives and all that get used to it too,
and all that becomes a factor. So no, it's an
interesting time, and yeah, things like the classics all that.

(47:58):
It's not going to solve all the problems. It's just
still a nice way for guys to get together and
actually be open about it and talk about it and go, yeah,
she's a bit difficult in what you can you help
me shover out? So I've got to I've got a
little business at the moment, which you know, we strugg along,
but like one of our employees, or the only employee
we've got, is one of my great old teammates from
down these ways. So it's it's cool about I do

(48:19):
that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Too, Yeah, brilliant stuff.

Speaker 5 (48:20):
I want to talk about your your current exploits and
your and your things you're involved in. Shortly, but it's
there a day that goes by when someone doesn't remind
you about the twenty third of October twenty eleven.

Speaker 16 (48:34):
It's funny you get asked that, and.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
And the reality is probably not no, it's yeah, it's yeah.

Speaker 16 (48:42):
I guess it's just become so normal now that there's
always that sort of that sort of people and the
you know, like people go, oh, do you get sick
of it? There's two things about like a it's a
lot better.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Than being reminded about Hong Kong every day.

Speaker 16 (48:55):
And secondly, and secondly, when those people come up and
talk to you, it's the first time that they've ever
seen you or been the opportunity. Like some of the
stories I've heard from people are unbelievable as far as
what either meant to them or where they were or
like I ran into somebody.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
I'm trying to think where I was.

Speaker 16 (49:18):
I was overseas somewhere and I ran into one of
our true heroes, which is somebody who's in our army,
and he told me that how he watched the game.
They watched it six hours after us because they were
serving over in wherever the war was at the time,
Afghanistan or what have you, and they got it. They
knew when it was on, but they had to get

(49:38):
it taken up to them on some sort of device
through like what what do they call those in the army,
sort of convoys or whatever, and dropping off the tape
of the game, dropping off the tape of the game.
And when this guy told me that, I mean I
was probably a few years deep at the time, by
tell what, it sobered me up. When you when you
hear that sort of story in the reality of it,

(49:59):
and and I guess again highlights the fact that what
what the what the sport and the team means to
this country. And when you hear things like that, mate,
you can't help. But you know, if it's five minutes
out of your day, then so be it, because it's
always cool to hear people's excitement for it.

Speaker 5 (50:14):
Were you actually white baiting or has that story been exaggerated.

Speaker 16 (50:18):
Oh look at you know, a lot of a lot
of my friends trying and say, were you or were
you just trying to make a quick buck from the
next movie or something, But no, it's it's true.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Or was white bating down the river.

Speaker 16 (50:30):
With my great mate Douggie, And I like, the river's
got pretty good reception these daysn't it. But that part
of it is still to this day hasn't been covered
by any of the any of the towers.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
So, yeah, I was.

Speaker 16 (50:42):
I was none the wise, And you know, I went
down there that day having no information but thinking, shit,
it's not me then who you know? So obviously you'd
already been an injury and you'd had a glimmer of hope.
But my great mate Cruds had got caught on ahead
of me there on that one, And yeah I had,
I had hopes. But at the time Pitty was gold kicking.

(51:05):
Petty had also the ability probably cover ten if need be.
And I don't know how deep the Hong Kong fall
out ran with the coaches, you know, like they say,
I mean on yours gone from the early announcements, But
did it mean that if they were down to number three?

Speaker 3 (51:21):
Was I still gone gone.

Speaker 16 (51:23):
So I went down there, have no ambition or thought
of being a part of it.

Speaker 5 (51:29):
Well, it's, as I say, part of our folklore, something that, yeah,
I'm sure you'll be reminded of for many years to come.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Can we bring it to the present day?

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (51:38):
You're close with many of these Chiefs boys. Can ask
you about a couple of them. Anton Lenet Brown Yep.
First test of the year after coming back from injury,
his eighty six tests, and we know he can play
twelve or thirteen? What is his best roll beef to
play with it? All Blacks twelve, thirteen or twenty three?

Speaker 16 (51:53):
Yeah, I mean the first thing that strikes you that
I reckon creeps up on it crept up on me
when I looked at it the start of the year.
Was you just set his number eighty six. If you're
an eighty six test All Black, you are something. And
I remember, first of all, I when I came back
from Japan, I walked out on a big contract and
I was I've regretted ever since with my paycheck.

Speaker 7 (52:14):
But I.

Speaker 16 (52:17):
Came back and just played white Kadow and then picked
up another Chiefs turn. And I remember first training I
ever went too, And obviously there was a lot of
hype around the guy with blonde hair and a cheeky
smile and we'll.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Get to him.

Speaker 16 (52:29):
And there was also a bit of high pround this midfielder.
And I had about two or three trainings with him
then from Barras Soap, and I thought, I literally thought
Conrad Smith straight away, and from from a engine point
of view, like to play in the midfield and to
play like Conrad that you need a big engine, and

(52:49):
Conrad had that. Anton's got a massive engine, an intelligent
football even at a young age, and just the way
he's he's not one of your typical explosive midfielders, but
he's a very safe pair of hands. He's very clever
on defense. And that's what I just thought, straight a
Conrad Smith to Anton, he probably offers a bit more
than Conrad Wood on attack. Like if you ever get

(53:11):
to see Anton close up, he's a big body, just
probably doesn't come across set as that explosive guy. So
for me, I'm excited by seeing him tonight. I think
from what we've seen this year, maybe that thirteen jersey
is available for the first time in a long time,
and for Anton who we've mentioned. He's played eighty six

(53:31):
tests apart from when he first came in, which was
through necessity. He came in very young because he was
a replacement lots of midfield injuries, and he had a
quite a long run at twelve that very first year.
He's not had a prolonged run. I don't think he's
always been that guy that can cover every position. And
that's so for him, best position pinely like twelve. I

(53:55):
think sown up like Jordy bout rightfully so vice captain
of the All backs.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
He ain't going anywhere.

Speaker 16 (54:01):
So for Anton, big opportunity tonight and hopefully in the
coming weeks to say hate what about me is the
starting option?

Speaker 5 (54:08):
What about the blonde head guy with the cheeky smile
he gets to start tonight Damien McKenzie at first five?
Is there a genuine head to head going on here
between him and Bowden Barrett? Or do you think a
pecking order has been established?

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Yeah, it's an interesting one.

Speaker 16 (54:22):
I mean prior to the prior to a quarter final,
hair Blues chiefs, I would have said, this is Damien's time.
We've just got to go in on Damien. He will
be the man, you know, And this is just ignoring
the fact of whatever Richie does, Richie does. But I
just thought, if he's going to be a man for
twenty twenty seven, then I thought they missed an opportunity

(54:42):
last year by fluffing around with him and not backing
him where now Body, I was live that day, and
Body showed everything that you'd expect from our first five
of one hundred and fifty all Black games, you know,
and has experienced to bring down the Chiefs with that
Blues team that night. Then he went very around in
that semi final, and I've really enjoyed the way Body's

(55:03):
gone about conducting things in the last sort of couple
of weeks. So I think there is a picking order.
I think there's no hiding from the fact. I think
Body's number one, and it's his jersey well and truly
at the moment, which I guess lends itself to think, right,
how are you going to use Damien McKenzie and still
and I lose track of his numbers, But again, he's
been around for a long time now, and obviously always

(55:24):
treat those two particular because they're business pardners as young
little bloody boys. But the fact is that they're very
experienced guys now and I still don't think we've nurtured
Damien's role. If he is going to be a bench player,
he could be the world's best bench player. You know,
he's no doubt about that in my mind. So what
have we got to do to make that happen? You know, like,

(55:44):
do we need to be committed to bringing him on
for a certain time? And you know, because for me,
I would have thought, there's nothing more scary from an
opposition point of view. If you can bring on a
Damien McKenzie when you've had fifty five sixty minutes of
the All Blacks playing at a tempo that they are
now and then on there's no rest, this thing's coming
on and his first thought and second and third boarders

(56:07):
to run. Then I think that's an exciting prospect of
the All Backs.

Speaker 5 (56:10):
I totally agree, Beef, I totally And that was Boden
Barratt's role to play, all right, And you know up
to the twenty fifteen.

Speaker 16 (56:14):
Will came and he was the best bench player we've
ever seen. Yeah, we're about a shadow of it out.
He did a bit of an anyone. So Damien physically
and attribute wise, he's got everything body hair, so why
can't he come on and be that guy too and
that difference maker. We don't need to have women's seven
giants come off the bench and call it a bomb squad.
We can bring on these guys who can turn a

(56:35):
game our way.

Speaker 5 (56:35):
You know, between Damien and Anton the seven and Quintin
pie back in the All Blacks twelve jersey.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Given the three years he said, how cool is this man?

Speaker 3 (56:45):
It's a brilliant story.

Speaker 16 (56:46):
Obviously we all know the injury and how it happened
and cut him down when he was essentially starting twelve.
He was at a young age and they say with
those knees injuries that it does take a while.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
Even when you're back, you're not truly back.

Speaker 16 (56:59):
You know, you've got to get feel free about and
all the rest of at him and this year, like
I mean, I actually said on another bloody platform that
last year I thought he was getting stuffed.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
Around by the Chiefs.

Speaker 16 (57:10):
And even as a proud Chiefs man, I said, get
this guy out of here. For Quinn's career, go behind us.
You know they would love you down there. Now they've
got a pretty good twelve themselves, but you know, he
needed to be starting, and I thought he was getting
stuffed around here by the Chiefs. But this year, obviously,
I just think maybe his confidence has come back.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
He's physically a lot better, and.

Speaker 16 (57:32):
I've always wanted him in this sort of setup, and
for the Chiefs too, because simply he reminds me a
bit of Oamrpi and I don't think we've had all
our Marpie since Lamapi, and I think that's been a
missing ingredient in our midfield. I liked the idea of
a contrast, but Quinn this year is offered and showed
that he's a lot more than just a basher. He's

(57:53):
got subtleties of his kicking game, his passing game. And
I also think, and any ten will tell you, there's
twelves that they play better with, and it might not
be the best twelve they've played with, but they do
just some towels fit you like a glove. And I
just think Quinn and Damien were all together, and I
think Damien often plays his bits footy, So for me,

(58:15):
that shows that Quinn's a great communicator, because a ten
playing well is usually a result of having a great
communicator outside them.

Speaker 5 (58:22):
How do you feel the All Blacks are placed what
will be three games into year or two of a
World Cup cycle. After tonight, can you make an assessment
on how we're placed heading towards twenty twenty seven?

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Probably not, Probably not towards twenty twenty seven.

Speaker 16 (58:35):
But what I do like compared to last year is
the style and the intent that they're playing with. And
I don't want to sound like a cheerleader, but I
am a cheerleader for the way that they're playing.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
You know, Like last year.

Speaker 16 (58:52):
As Proud in New Zealander and All Black fan as
I am, I found it tough to be positive and
tough to enjoy it because I just felt that we
were I think we were chasing the opposite the other countries.
You know, we were seeing these Northern Hemisy teams have
success and we were thinking, oh, we need to copy that. Well,
that's arrogantly or whatever. That's not our way, you know,
like we play our way. And I just think the

(59:14):
last two weeks has shown I think the rugby public
and anyone watching is that I think we're starting to
realize that we're never going to be South Africa, but
we don't want to be South Africa.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
We're never going to be Island or England. You know
we want to be.

Speaker 16 (59:28):
We've been the best rugby team in the world for
one hundred years for a reason, because they've played like
we play. And I just think the last couple of
weeks you've seen a endeavor to play with more tempo.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
You've seen an endeavor to be more attacking.

Speaker 16 (59:41):
From all parts of the field, and some of the
best attacking teams of a most you kick the most,
but you've got to kick in a way that you
still got the option to attack. And I just felt
last year we were kicking and you knew of our kicking.
I knew of our kicking, and the guy one hundred
meters away, I knew our kicking and the drunk guy
five ks down the road and you've are kicking where
this year. I just think they've got a lot more

(01:00:04):
threat to their game and I'm loving watching it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
Just to just to finish. I know you've got lots
going on. Are you on the Sky team tonight and
loving your commentary? You're analysis part of the breakdown and everything.
What about Grins, You've got the Grins jacket on. They're
still going strong? Is it your your drink brand.

Speaker 16 (01:00:19):
Yeah, we've got myself and Damien and Anton and a
couple other silent partners.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
We've got our We've got our Grim's drink band, which.

Speaker 16 (01:00:25):
Is an RTD, which I never touched an RTD before
we started the brand. But you got to keep up
with the trends, they say. So now we've got that
and if it's and if it's not in your bottle store,
then you're not buying from a good bottle store.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
And so yeah, we're chucking along.

Speaker 16 (01:00:39):
As a tough market, there's a lot of these overseas
companies coming in and making it extremely tough for us
little kV companies to survive.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
But we're boxing on.

Speaker 16 (01:00:48):
I've got many roles in there, including the delivery driver,
the CEO, the marketing manager and and warehouse packer. But
it's been it's been good. I mean we're actually looking
overseas and seeing if we can get any footholds here.
So it's it's certainly been an interesting dip into a
business world.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Good man, And I mean, how are you staying fit
because you haven't blown out?

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Man?

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
What are you doing to stay first?

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
Well, I'm not a great sleeper, so I've utilized that.

Speaker 16 (01:01:11):
So I get up at about a quarter five every
morning and just do something be it. I go, I
go for a run on the dark, cold streets, A
oake you for half an hour. Or I've got a
bit of home gym GiB and I go to half
an hour, get that done before kids wake up, and
then it's there. Turned to make me be a slave,
I guess like I did my own.

Speaker 5 (01:01:31):
Paris Beaver's so good to see you, man, I could
we could chat for a long time, and I know
you good other commitments.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
I really appreciate your stopping down. Hey, mate, it's great
to see you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
She's piney. Great to be your mate.

Speaker 5 (01:01:40):
Stephen Donald Beaver to all of us, joining us here
at the Roaming Giants seven eight nine he feet Terrace
as we build towards kickoff tonight at five past seven
back in a mow on weekend sport, start your journey
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Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
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Speaker 5 (01:01:59):
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(01:02:20):
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Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
From the Roaming Giant and Hamilton It's weekend sport with
Jason Pine and GJ Gardner Homes, New Zealand's most trusted
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Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
News Talk bu awesome feedback on the chat with Stephen
Donald on email from at Jason and Eden Park. At
the twenty eleven Rugby World Cup, final. As Beaver came
on the field, the crowd collectively must have realized he
needed a boost in confidence, given he had been maligned
since Hong Kong. The crowd erupted into a chart of
Beaver Beaver, knowing that we needed this guy to do

(01:03:23):
a job. It was brilliant and the rest is history.
It is just, honestly one of the great sporting yarns
of our time. Lots of other feedback coming through which
I'll get to.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is our number.
By the way, we haven't really talked about the All
Blacks tonight, have we.

Speaker 5 (01:03:38):
We probably should do that at some point. What are
you expecting or what are you hoping for? What will
satisfy you tonight at the final whistle? Because the series
has signed up, I think the smart money would be
on an All Blacks three nail clean sweep. I just
can't see that there will be anything other than another
All Blacks victory tonight. I get the feeling they'll be

(01:03:59):
at least as convincing as Wellington, and perhaps more.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
For a couple of reasons.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
One, the French just seem to me to be stumbling
along towards the finish line. They've been in action for
a year now. This is their end of season tour.
They've had a very very long rugby year and it
just feels to me as though they want to get
on that plane, they want to get out of here. Look,
they may well finish with a flourish and with the

(01:04:25):
team being named, I think it might be perhaps, you know,
a bit more like Dunedin than Wellington. But I honestly
look at this All Blacks team and that's the second
reason I think this. There are some hungry, hungry All
Blacks in that team, players who have been waiting for
an opportunity and tonight will get it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
And some of them we talked about before.

Speaker 5 (01:04:44):
With Beef Quintupaire, he'll start a Test match for the
first time since Dunedin in twenty twenty two. That has
been that's how long it's been since Quintepires started a
Test match and he'll start it at home the first
time he's ever done that. Anton Lennet Brown. Anton Lennet Brown,
what a player. I mean, he could be a real

(01:05:05):
fulcrum in this midfield. Damien McKenzie, well, whenever dmac plays,
you just don't know what's going to happen, do you?

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
But it could be brilliant.

Speaker 5 (01:05:12):
It could be running against some you know, slightly tired fringemen.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
It could be amazing. And then you know players coming
off the bench.

Speaker 5 (01:05:21):
Brady McAllister is going to have his first chance to
wear the black jersey. Reuben Love at fullback. That guy's
been just waiting for an opportunity. So yeah, that's my feeling. Anyway,
yours might be different. Are eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
If you would like to give us your thoughts, Let's
go through a few of the texts here. Stephen Donald interview,

(01:05:42):
great straight talk, none of the boring corporate speak we
sometimes get from the All Blacks. Tell Stephen that the
World Cup well and truly usurps Hong Kong. Yes, I'd
probably probably knows that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
And it's true.

Speaker 5 (01:05:54):
What I'm Beaver great comments, says this one great interview
with Beaver. Jason clear respect between the two of you. Yeah,
I mean I just really liked the guy. What a
great discussion with Beaver says, and so down to earth
and knowledgeable. Yes, he's both of those things. Jeremy says,
This chat with Stephen's great. What a legend. The guy's
an absolute character, says Henry. So yeah, it's been it's

(01:06:14):
been great. It's been great to get the chance to chet.
What happened in Hong Kong, says this one. I don't
remember that. That was that Bledisloe Cup Test.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
In twenty ten from memory where.

Speaker 5 (01:06:26):
Beaver was he went to find touch and didn't find
touch and Australia got the ball and came back and
won the game. It was in October of twenty ten.
They won at twenty six twenty four, and he was
much maligned after that for not finding touch for goodness sake,
and then of course the All Black said look, hey,
we're going to move in a different direction and he

(01:06:48):
dropped down the pecking order. But as we know in
twenty eleven, Dan Carter, Colin Slade, Aaron Cruden and then
Beaver of course coming off the bench in the final
and kicking that goal which will forever be etched into
our history. Oh, e one hundred and eighty ten eighty
our number. It's twenty five too. When you come to Hamilton,
it's amazing here you run into but I'm not amazed

(01:07:09):
to run into this man. Minty our rugby commentator for
Waikato and Chiefs matches.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Does anyone even call you Graham anymore? Or is it just.

Speaker 18 (01:07:18):
Minty minty just about the whole time? Actually, Jason, if
I introduce themself as Graham Mead, people go who's that? Yeah,
who's that? But now it's been minty for thirty years,
it probably will be for the next thirty Maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Haven't had a test test since twenty twenty two.

Speaker 5 (01:07:32):
That seems a long time between test matches for the
fine people of the Tron.

Speaker 18 (01:07:37):
To be honest, Jason, that stadium is not big enough.
We're just not returning the investment. The all Blacks need
to make a dollar out of it. I think both
tests should be an Auckland. I don't want to take
it away from the cakeson, but if they want to
make money, we've got a fill stands.

Speaker 5 (01:07:51):
But that's not the only consideration here. Surely it can't
be the only consideration. And you said it with a
twinkle in your eye, because f MG Stadium is a
magnificent place to watch a game of rugby.

Speaker 18 (01:08:02):
It's the best gramm, it's the best ground on the world.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
Well, the grass is the best, Kja, I'll tell.

Speaker 18 (01:08:05):
You Okay, what do you call them? The lawn rangers?
The grass is great, but look, it's a great stadium
to watch at. It's a great stadium to go to.
It's got a great atmosphere. You're right on the thing.
But it's coming about money now, it's about return. I
love being at efing Jets Home. For me, it's like
you with the Caketon. It's the best place ever. But

(01:08:25):
sometimes we've got to be realistic, don't we.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Well, we do.

Speaker 5 (01:08:28):
And the other factor that's going to play a part
in this. All the two factors is that there are
going to be fewer test matches and we've got a
brand new stadium in christ Church. Staff Well, you have
to think take test matches, and probably deservedly so because
the people of Christch haven't had much test rugby. It'll
take test matches at least one per year. I said
a couple of weeks ago. I think Dunedan should continue
to host under the Roof in July because it's such

(01:08:50):
a good ground Hamilton, though, I'm looking forward to getting
there tonight. Because it is rectangular, it makes such a
huge difference.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
It does.

Speaker 18 (01:08:57):
It's built for rugby, it's built for sport. It's built
to be close. I love the place and look on
it was a twinkle on my own and I said
that if they take test matches away from Hamilton, I'll
be depressed. I'll be sorry. But yeah, look it's my hometown.
It's it's a place I'm very passionate about. It's it's
just a neat place to be and it's neat to
have you any exact years and it was great you
featured on my show this one that was the coolest

(01:09:18):
thing and signed the door. I've made it for life.

Speaker 5 (01:09:21):
I've signed the door at Zidby in Hamilton. That is
a highlight for me too. When are the Chiefs going
to win Super Rugby?

Speaker 18 (01:09:28):
I know want to answer this.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
It was this year and we got robbed.

Speaker 18 (01:09:33):
I think, no, it didn't. It was a great game.
It was probably the best game of footing and Super rugby.
I've seen the better team won on the day. We've
been closed chasing.

Speaker 5 (01:09:42):
Yeah three times in the Grand final. The team this
is the thing. What will it take to take that
final step?

Speaker 18 (01:09:47):
I got no idea. Super Rugby is getting so damn
good now that this year, you know, Hurricanes were sitting
down and Otago was sitting on there ild sitting down
the bottom. They were good teams. Yep, it's just going
to be the luck on the day at the time,
and I think it's home advantage. If we'd been at home,
that would have been a Chiefs win, but they dumped
it against a and that cost us the Grand Final.

Speaker 5 (01:10:08):
Yeah, I was going to mention that because the Blues,
obviously with the changed finals format, Yeah, came to Hamilton
knowing they were in the last chance saloon. The Chiefs
knew it didn't matter if they lost, they would still
be in contention, which they they were, and you know,
and continued line and made the final.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
But I totally agreement to you.

Speaker 5 (01:10:28):
I think if that game's in Hamilton, then we're celebrating
a Chiefs super rugby when an't we Well.

Speaker 18 (01:10:32):
Probably I'm probably sabering up about now actually to be honest,
but Yeah, going to be a big challenge for the
next year. They're letting a lot of players go, there's
a lot of change going on, a new coach coming
in that hasn't been announced. There's a lot of change
in the Chiefs. Always be a Chief for ever to
be a Chief, just like you'll be a hurricane, for
be a hurrican.

Speaker 5 (01:10:50):
We haven't won out. We haven't won it since twenty
sixteen minute and I'll never you know. And there's a
lot of people in the Hurricanes catsman who thought that,
you know, last year would be would be the one
for us. And then Wallace the Titi turned up at
Scottis Stadium and just became this this incredible force of nature.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
But it's small margins and knockout rugby, right it is.

Speaker 18 (01:11:09):
It's a tiny minuscule seconds. Yeah, not minutes, it's seconds,
And like mill Wax tonight, now it's going to be seconds.
That first game down in Otago, it was just seconds
away from a loss.

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
And a win.

Speaker 18 (01:11:23):
Last week, we're brilliant this week. I think Rays is
doing what he said he's going to do. He's going
to give everybody a gallop. And I think it's neat
to see a chief back line that will a lot
to prove let it round back from injury, Quintu Pip
playing great footy, Mackenzie needs to stand his authority and
Radham and hope them look three half backs from the
White Cat. I just don't need to say anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:11:44):
You're dropping cam Roy Gallen there who I know featured
on your local show this morning, Clayton McMillan. He leaves
to take up his next challenge in Monster.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
What will his chief's legacy be?

Speaker 18 (01:11:57):
Honesty Dead said honesty. Clayton called it like it was
if you played garbage, you got told you got played garbage,
you played good, you got told you play okay. But
a tremendous man around the men. That he could walk
on broken glass and the players would crawl on it
behind him. And I just like the guy. The cut
of the guy. There was nothing pretentious, very honest. You've

(01:12:19):
had him on your show a few times and now
there's no fancy words I'll tell you for one, but
just a nice guy, and nice guys sometimes succeed. I
think he'll come back to New Zealand one day, and
I'd love to see him a part of an all
black sort of direction. I think he could.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
He totally could.

Speaker 5 (01:12:35):
I mean he's going to push out the edges of
his coaching CV by coaching somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Ed Munster. That's a big club. It's a really big club.

Speaker 5 (01:12:43):
They have huge expectation over there, and I'm sure he'll
be a success over there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
The name that gets thrown around a lot recently is
John A. Gibbs. Part of the part of the s
is that who's going to get the gig?

Speaker 18 (01:12:53):
I think so I'm pretty sure that's where he's going
to sit. By any He's got all the skills, he's
got all the things about it. That's he's done. His
coach around the world. He's coached very well. You know,
he had the honor of being sacked from France from
the Michelin team. Everybody gets that. Once you've done that,
you've you've been somewhere. But yeah, carries a lot with him.
I think the balance of Tupoo via Nata Rocoi and

(01:13:16):
the loose forwards that the Chiefs this year had John A.
Gibbs planted all over them, and now Toupoo's moved to six.

Speaker 3 (01:13:23):
Till it that.

Speaker 5 (01:13:23):
Yeah, I do.

Speaker 18 (01:13:24):
I really like that. He was always had that ability.
He's so mobile. First game and Dunedin he was like,
on the hell is this? So I'm all at seed?
Last week Tupou started to find his place. Yeah, I
think he's going to be a good.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Six all right.

Speaker 5 (01:13:38):
Just to finish, I won't ask you for a prediction
necessarily for tonight, But what sort of performance do you
expect from the All Blacks tonight?

Speaker 18 (01:13:46):
Last week will do me fine if they can maintain
what happened last week with the changes raises called, I'll
actually start saying raises got it? Okay, It's taking me
a long time to get there, but he's he's getting
he's getting there. I'm starting to like him. I'm starting
to like him.

Speaker 5 (01:14:01):
Well he's winning you over, then he's obviously doing something right.
Good to see you, Minty Graham. Minty meet a real
character of rugby around the White cutto and the host
of their morning show on ZB on Saturdays, and our
rugby commentator of course for Chiefs and White Couple MPC
matches seventeen away from two, We're going to breakaway. When
we come back, We're across the Tasman Adam Peacock.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
After this, cutting down to all lagsbe Fronts on your
home of Sport. It's Weekend Sport Live from the Roman
Giants in Hamilton with Chasin Vine and TJ Gardner Homes
New Zealand's most trusted home builder News Talk zed B.

Speaker 5 (01:14:38):
One forty six is the time message on tex Spiney
you're going to need to go to detox after all
this common commentary pub trips is over.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
I have been very restrained. Muss just water for me.

Speaker 5 (01:14:52):
The punters in here though, at the roaming, Giant and
heathy Terrace Hamilton are enjoying themselves in all ways, shapes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
And forms, and how could you not. It is an
absolutely cracking venue.

Speaker 5 (01:15:04):
We're hit all three time for our regu A Saturday
catch up now with Australian correspondent Adam Peacock, who joins
us Adam first taste tonight between the Wallabies and British
and Irish Lions in Brisbane. What other levels of optimism
about this among Australian rugby fans.

Speaker 19 (01:15:21):
Well, they're not peaking. Put it that way, go there
for the start. I look, pinety of one of my
life mohottos is to, yeah, just always underplay everything because
you can never get disappointed. So yeah, realistically they should

(01:15:42):
wipe us, like seriously, you look at their lineup, you
look at what some of those Northern Hemisphere teams have done,
and you've got those combinations, got the best of the best,
and you've got Australia at a time when we're just
searching around to kind of reshape ourselves after a disastrous
World Cup campaign. That's the reality of the situation now.

(01:16:02):
If it turns and that those combinations aren't quite working
for to the Lions who have been slicking patches in
these laid up games and the world is confined something
and they're going to have to play above themselves. They're
going to have to do the Queenslane. What Queensland did
is start of origin rug beliegue to contend we're a
sneaky chance that the common thought is that we get

(01:16:23):
one game, but not sure where that one is. But
we don't get white, but we don't win this series.
That's the common thought.

Speaker 5 (01:16:29):
Way to get And I just wonder that as well, Adam,
which is the more likely test to win? Is it
the first one or is it perhaps once the Wallabies
have had a decent stretch of time together. Mate, Look,
I don't know. A hypothetical situation the lines go tune up.
Maybe your best chance is the third Test. I don't
know what you think.

Speaker 19 (01:16:46):
Yeah, I'm not sure either. I'm not sure either whether
or not, like get lines toon Nell up and then
we get to Sitney and we get one piccause they're
all thinking, oh, look after myselves for my clubs and
thinks like that. I'm not sure. I'm not sure, but
I dare say that the Lions, if they get in
that situation, would be looking at the fact that they're
looking in all probability they win the midwek and next

(01:17:06):
one they're looking at a perfect tour on Australian sword.
They lost that one to Argentina in Ireland before they left,
of course. But yeah, it's a tough.

Speaker 8 (01:17:14):
One to call.

Speaker 19 (01:17:15):
Talk to me about twenty five minutes in the game,
I reckon, we'll know, but the lawrence just so well
a willed even though they are a conglomeration. But yeah,
it can be real tough.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
All right.

Speaker 5 (01:17:27):
We'll look forward to that tonight around ten o'clock New
Zealand time that game kicks off.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
Other matters around.

Speaker 5 (01:17:33):
You were at the Paul Gallon Sonny Bill Williams fight
on Wednesday night.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
What were your reflections on that.

Speaker 19 (01:17:41):
It was a good night at boxing. There was some
really good undergard ones. The main event. I was just
you know, you look at it and you go sunny
Bill probably wins, loses a point, it brings it back
into Gallon's favor. Perhaps it was a tight fight, but yeah,
Sonny will probably through the prettier punches and the better

(01:18:03):
out mound boxing punches. That the fact that it was
two minute rounds was I would have preferred six three
minute rounds and eighty two minute rounds. I just think
that attritional value would would have opened the fight up
and delivered a clear result by the end of it.
Either way, I'm not sure either way it would have gone.
But yeah, it was a tight fight and it was

(01:18:25):
an enjoyable evening. It's an enjoyable fight and attention, all
the things you want from the big sporting event. But
I'd pay in ten years time. It's not one man
and we look back on I go wow, I was there.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
Fair enough.

Speaker 5 (01:18:36):
And something else that happened during the week was that
Australia bowled the West End. He's out for twenty seven
in their third cricket Test. Now, why on earth couldn't
they have been just a bit better in the field
and keep them under twenty six to take that unwanted
record off us?

Speaker 19 (01:18:50):
Yeah, from nine to fifty five. Yeah, blame sent concert.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
Oh we are, don't you worry, we are.

Speaker 19 (01:18:58):
That was both joyous from our point of view, and
Mitch Stark was unreal to see he get his four
hundreds and hundred tests and he took fight crickets the balls.
Scottie Bowlin gets a hat trick. But if you did
think far out with when you sort yourselves out, and
then this is not just on the West Indies, they
can't do so much. I mean they've only got so
much revenue coming into their system, which they have to.

(01:19:20):
They've got a lot of mouths to feed over there,
with a lot of islands and things like that. But
the ICC have to sort this out. Otherwise, what are
we going to have Test cricket in ten fifteen years side?
It's just going to be a racing three unfortunately, because
you guys have got a similar problem in that or
Shane Bond was the first one and you've got guys

(01:19:42):
like Trent Bolt. Now how much test crickets are they're
going to play now that they can just feed their
pockets and you can get on them. They have to.
It's an individual sport in that sense. But yeah, the ICC,
you got a lot of thinking to do about how
we can distribute more in order and those payments go
directly to Test cricket. They don't just go and then
start bloody paintings. Get a lotment coaches and thinks that

(01:20:02):
is a Test cricket fund to help the fact that
you know you've got a Nicholas Forum who could probably
backfire for the West Indies in the Test match but
doesn't because he played Tea twenty. You got to fix that.

Speaker 5 (01:20:12):
Yeah, indeed, just on Constance, it didn't have a happy series.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
So you're going to open the betting in the Ashes.

Speaker 19 (01:20:19):
A big question mark. And now we're thinking with Sheffield
children of four or five games before the first Ashes Test,
where we're thinking it's a good old fashioned battoff over here,
it's Sam, it's Martus, Labor, Shane, it's USB and Kwaja's
mate McSweeney. For two spots it looks like cam Green's
Lockdown three, Smith four, Head five, Webster six. So those

(01:20:39):
those two not just not just Constance but Aussie I reckon,
it's a bit up in the air. So no, it's good.
It's going to come off Ober November. There's going to
be a lot of attention on State cricket and I
reckon all come.

Speaker 7 (01:20:50):
Down to that.

Speaker 5 (01:20:51):
All right, Well, it's good chatting Australian sport with you, Adam,
and you're the risty weekend mate. We'll catch up again
next Saturday.

Speaker 19 (01:20:57):
Keep finny, have a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
You have a good one too, Adam.

Speaker 5 (01:20:59):
Thanks indeed, Adam Peacock a big part of our Saturdays
around this time.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
Every weekend on we Ken Sport. What are we coming up?
Seven away from two?

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
Back in the mom.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
Live from the Roaming Giant at Hamilton ahead of the
All blacksbe France Weekend Sport with Jason Pine and t
J Gardnerholmes, New Zealand's most trusted home builder on your
home of Sport news Talk z'd be.

Speaker 5 (01:21:25):
They're coming up four minutes away from two. After the
two o'clock news our final hour from the Roaming Giant
here in Heafy Terrace, Hamilton, I forget We've got full
commentary for you of the All Blacks France Third Test
match from FMG Stadium, Hamiltons. I built up from six
with commentary from five past seven Elliott Smith, our lead
to a commentator and rugby editor with Steve Gordon, former

(01:21:46):
All Black alongside, speaking of who he is going to
make an appearance here at the Roaming Giant after two o'clock,
as is Matthew Cooper, another absolute White cut Or rugby
legend and current president of New Zealand Rugby.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
He's going to pop in for a chat as well.

Speaker 5 (01:22:00):
Mike cron leads us off after two o'clock, one of
the most highly respect then regarded rugby coaches going around.
He's currently with the Aussies ahead of their tests hereies
against the British and Irish Lions and a Wrecksham fan
who's been waiting seventy years to watch his team play
in Wellington.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
Hamilton becomes the heartbeat of all Blacks rugby with the energy.

Speaker 4 (01:22:25):
Of legends, the big names of rugby, the.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
Spirit of the way cutto and the fire of Testaman Rugby.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
This is it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:32):
This is your front row seat to the action before
the actions.

Speaker 4 (01:22:38):
Play from the Roaming Giant.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
It's Weekend Sport with Jason Vain on your home of
Sport News Talks b.

Speaker 5 (01:22:46):
Yes, indeed six and a half past two, I'm Jason
Pine at the Roaming Giant heafy Terrace and Hamilton started
to fill up with all Blacks fans. When you have
all Blacks replica gear and evidence now at the Roaming Giant.
Great place to enjoy a meal before the game or
a drink with friends.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
We're here until three o'clock this hour.

Speaker 5 (01:23:05):
Mike Cronshaw one of the great coaches, one of the
great forwards coaches. He's now with the Wallabies. Can he
help them beat the British and Irish Lions. Mike cron
on the show shortly but later on this hour, joined
by New Zealand Rugby president Matthew Cooper. He's going to
pop in a white Cuttle rugby legend. Of course, he
told us who's going to bring Steve Gordon with him,

(01:23:25):
so that'll make two White Cuttle rugby legends.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
And let's not thinking about Wrexham.

Speaker 5 (01:23:30):
They take him on the Wellington Phoenix this afternoon, and
there's a Wrexham fan in his eighties in Wellington who
supported the team as a young boy and then moved
to New Zealand. He's been waiting seventy years for the
chance to see them play live again.

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
So he's on the show as well.

Speaker 5 (01:23:45):
But as we approach eight pass two, as we always
do it around him at this time on weekend Sport,
it's time to catch you up with some of the
things that you might have missed. Some of the things
that have happened sports wise over the last twelve to
twenty four hours.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
That you might not have caught up with in case
you missed it.

Speaker 5 (01:24:01):
Starting with cricket, the Black Cats cruising to a winover
Zimbabwe in their T twenty Fry Series match.

Speaker 3 (01:24:10):
He'll be right here.

Speaker 20 (01:24:11):
Well, this could be the final shot. It is a
boundary and New Zealander won this match. They record their
second win in the tri series. This one is a
thumping win, winn by eight wickets.

Speaker 5 (01:24:25):
Devin Conway standing out with an unbeaten fifty nine to
lead the chase to the NRL. The Cronulla Sharks keeping
up their good form against the Roosters.

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
Times sad it comes the right shows.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
The alla has gone over.

Speaker 3 (01:24:41):
For the chance.

Speaker 16 (01:24:43):
He's gonna move and he's busting and move right there
to scorn a train lot of.

Speaker 5 (01:24:50):
Moment thirty one eighteen their teenth win of the season. Meantime,
the Penrith Panthers continue their surge the clay.

Speaker 21 (01:24:57):
Hi Topt and Burn Humphreys.

Speaker 3 (01:24:59):
Benny got away from Mara. Denny did a number.

Speaker 21 (01:25:02):
Of jocks that class. Casey mcclaim the nineteen year old
with a ferry Stoney's try to cap off this night.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
For Pedron thirty ten win over the rabbit Os.

Speaker 5 (01:25:15):
Their early season struggles now long forgotten to rugby at
Eden Park last night, Scotland's clinical as they beat Manu.
Someone has shimmings off this long point subtler cad ten
meters out again, little kick coming from mcdonnh.

Speaker 17 (01:25:33):
That's brilliant from Scotland.

Speaker 3 (01:25:36):
Rory's Jimpson scores their second.

Speaker 5 (01:25:41):
To the Open championship at Royal Port Rasher.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
Disappointing Open championship for.

Speaker 5 (01:25:47):
Rack Kiwee's Ryan Fox, though coming oh so close to
making the cuts in miracle fashion.

Speaker 17 (01:25:54):
Three over.

Speaker 13 (01:25:56):
Royan.

Speaker 15 (01:25:58):
So he's going to make an eagle that the cut
never left the flag water swinging.

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
He'll know that a birdie give him outside Chancer Nick
in the weekend and I nearly made win one better.

Speaker 5 (01:26:10):
What a shot, very nearly holing out on the last
for eagle unless it didn't drop both Ryan Fox and
Daniel Hilly. You're finishing just one shot outside the cut
line and to the field of France. Tadey Pagaca continuing
to show his dominance in the Pyreneese extending his lead
in the thirteenth stage, Mountain time Trial gets again.

Speaker 22 (01:26:28):
The yellow jersey is just going to turn the heat
up even more as he reaches the top of the climb,
the crowd urging him on the yellow jersey of Taddy
Pagaca is just going to obliterate all of the other
times as he wins another stage.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Analyzing every view from every angle in the Sporting World
Weekend Sport with Jason High they call.

Speaker 5 (01:26:55):
News Talks INB coming up eleven past two here on
news Talks here B Weekend Sport at the Roaming Giant.
Mike cron is one of wild rugby's most successful coaches.
He coached well over two hundred All Blacks games during
a golden era for the side, during which they won
two World Cups, fashioned an incredible winning record and stayed

(01:27:15):
at the top of the world rugby rankings for longer
than any other team ever has.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
He also helped the Black.

Speaker 5 (01:27:20):
Ferns to World Cup glory in twenty twenty two, and
last year became a member of Joe Schmitt's Wallaby set
up as they prepared to face the British and Irish
Lions first Test in Brisbane tonight, Mike Cron's book is out.
It's simply called Coach Lessons from an All Blacks Legend.
Mike Cron is with us on Weekend Sport. Mike, thanks
for your time. Congrats on the book. Could the Mike

(01:27:42):
Cron who coached the Saint Andrew's College verse fifteen in
his late twenties ever have imagined the journey that rugby
has taken you on?

Speaker 11 (01:27:51):
Oh heck, no, nay. And I certainly don't coach like
I did back then, Thank god. You know that was
my first coaching gig in nineteen eighty three and Andrews.
You know, It's was back then a boys college, private
school in christ Church, and it was a great stepping
stone for me. And you never thought that you're ever
going to be probably even a senior Aby coach back then.

Speaker 5 (01:28:14):
One thing that became obvious to me as I read
the book is how important to you the players are
as part of the coaching process, Which seems obvious, but
I'm sure it's not the case with some coaches. You say,
the best coach is the person you're performing the activity with.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
Can you explain why that is?

Speaker 11 (01:28:33):
Yeah? Okay, Well, an example I use quite often when
I talk to coaches, you know, they say, oh, we
don't have resources like you've got, and I go, hold on,
you do actually say you've got twenty five players at
training or twenty six players whatever. You do a little activity,
you know, like pate for instance, you know, coaches getting
the peers one holder pad the other come in and

(01:28:55):
punch rap, you know, like we tackle and drive it
back to five each. Now that's how I was coached,
you know, when I was playing. Now you know what
would happen is that the guy holding the pad were
given sometant feedback back to the guy doing the activity,
like good front leg drive or you hit and stopped
or whatever. So once you do that, you've now got

(01:29:17):
you know, twenty six coaches out on the training field,
So you're not allowing mediocrity to ever creep into a session,
and that player is developing. And remember, learning is motivation
and motivation is enjoyment. So the player is learning, they're motivated.
If they're motivated, they're having fun and they're enjoying it.
Which that's the whole idea of it, isn't it absolutely right?

Speaker 5 (01:29:39):
Another thing that I really enjoyed finding out about was
the fact that you visited many other sporting organizations to
find out new things, to observe the way they went
about things, from ballet to suma wrestling. What drove that
desire in you and still does to think about things
a bit differently?

Speaker 11 (01:29:59):
Knowing I don't know enough, that's the first thing you've
got to identify. I do not have enough knowledge. And
the second thing is first for knowledge. So they are
your two drivers. And I've always had and still have
a first for knowledge that I can come up with
some other way of educating my player or athlete to
understand how to use their body better, that I can

(01:30:20):
pass that on, and then it's up to them if
I'd like to keep that or delete it, you know.
So Hence I go around and try and pick up
things of different sports from you know, as you rightly said,
sumo and ballet, and I've been to cage fighting, and
I've been all over America, and you know, ice hockey
and basketball, netball, you know everything, jiu jitsu, wrestling, karate,

(01:30:45):
anything at all that is top level, I'll go into
and have a look. The big thing is, don't go
on with the preconceives over there. I think this is
what I want to learn, just going with an open mind,
to sit there and just soak it all up and
something will jump out the bottom of the neighbors. That's valuable.

Speaker 5 (01:30:59):
The other quote that stood out for me in the
book was one you use a few times. You talk
about loving the players as much at nine o'clock at
night after they've played a game as you do at
seven point thirty before they've played. How important a plank
in your coaching philosophy.

Speaker 11 (01:31:13):
Was That it's huge and that I actually got that
off Steve Hanson. He drove that, and I think that's
great that an athlete knows that no matter what the result,
you know, when they trudge off for a game, you
know you're not a fair winded sailor. You don't just
pat them on the back when they win. You are

(01:31:34):
there for them. And after every test like tomorrow night,
I don't know how this test is going to go
against the Fish and Irish Lions, but I guarantee you,
whatever the result, the players will be treated exactly the
same by myself when they come back into the shed,
and I think that's really really important. I always thank
them for their effort. Sometimes it's good enough and other
times it's not good enough to get a win. That's

(01:31:55):
the way it is. But I certainly will not be
a fair winded sailor and only be a friend when
you win.

Speaker 5 (01:32:02):
Scrum question for you, Mike, will a technically better scrummager
always get the better of a physically stronger player.

Speaker 11 (01:32:11):
No, not necessarily. You know, it's about mass and speed.
You know. It's the big guy who hadn't got much technique,
but he packed fires him in pretty good. There's a
lot of weight coming at you. So there's a bit
of this and a bit of that.

Speaker 17 (01:32:26):
You know.

Speaker 11 (01:32:26):
But for me, I just work on the fact that
if I can get you technically as best you can
possibly be, so you use your body most efficiently, that
gives you more energy for getting around the paddic and
running with the ball and making tackles and doing stuff
that you love as well.

Speaker 5 (01:32:44):
How proud are you of the work that you have
done around scrums? Safety and safety of rugby players generally.

Speaker 11 (01:32:54):
Yeah, yeah, I never really thought about it until I
was asked if I'd go up to you know, government
house and receive a gong safety And it's something I'd
never do, you know, to be honest, well, I said,
I'd never write a book too, but.

Speaker 18 (01:33:09):
There you go.

Speaker 11 (01:33:12):
I don't think I would have accepted if it was
just for coaching, you know, if they said, you've won
a couple of World Cups coming up and get a gone,
I don't think I would have accepted that. But it
wasn't that. It was for safety over the years and
working with World Rugby and helping change laws and working
with the medical fraternity. So I go, oh, yeah, I

(01:33:34):
understand that, and yeah, that's probably something should be proud of.

Speaker 2 (01:33:39):
Indeed you should.

Speaker 5 (01:33:40):
Speaking of pride with as helping the Black Ferns to
World Cup victory at the back end of twenty twenty
two rank in your career.

Speaker 11 (01:33:50):
How of a highlight because you never I had mucked
around coaching the Seven Lady, a woman in the fifteens,
but just a one off session here and the one
off session there, never full time like I did with
Wayne Smith. And that it was well, I had to
learn that women learn differently when you're coaching them. I

(01:34:12):
had to learn that very quickly. And once once we
formed a relationship and they worked out it was a
safe learning environment that they're in, we got growth, you know,
like huge growth daily growth. With the ladies, they're outstanding,
you know, we just had to get them over a hump.
That what I found. Women they're very harsh on themselves,

(01:34:35):
you know, if they make a mistake at training, they
beat themselves up mentally, and we had to get past
that and get them to understand that to get growth
you are we are going to stretch and stretch and
stress your skill level and you will fail at times.
It's okay, eventually you'll achieve that skill. Once you achieve

(01:34:57):
that skill, we're going to make it harder, so you
fail again, and then eventually you will achieve that skill,
and then we again we make it harder. So that
was sort of like way in the mind philosophy, and
once the woman worked out out, they jumped at it
and gave everything a crack and we got huge growth
in a very short period of time.

Speaker 2 (01:35:16):
Let's bring it to the present day.

Speaker 5 (01:35:18):
You're about to embark on a three test series as
part of the Wallabies coaching set up against the British
and Irish Lions.

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
How confident do you feel, Mike?

Speaker 11 (01:35:26):
That wouldn't be a word I'd use.

Speaker 3 (01:35:29):
Fair enough.

Speaker 11 (01:35:30):
They are an extremely, extremely good team and this is
my I'm very lucky. This is my third series to
coach against them, the two thousand and five and twenty
seventeen against them when I was coaching the All Blacks
and never ever thought I'd have another crack at them,
And now here I am at twenty twenty five, and
you know, they are an ex extremely good team. She was,

(01:35:51):
And we do not know until eight o'clock tomorrow night
how good we are against them, So that's you know,
I'll know more than nine point thirty. You'll know that
if you're competitive, were really competitive or better or a
fair way off. So it's one of those unknowns to
be fair. All I do know is that Joe and

(01:36:13):
I and all the other coaching staff, we've got the
players as well as they can be. You know, they
are enjoying each other as a company. They're pretty clear
in the head, the reasonably fit. So all you hopeful
is they can put their best foot forward. But you
know we'll not nine pint thirty.

Speaker 5 (01:36:31):
Indeed, do you have a hunch? Do you have a
hunch at and how are you going to match up
against them more? Are you really just going to wait
and see?

Speaker 11 (01:36:38):
No, I don't have a hunch you know, I've seen
I've worked that out over. I don't know if I
was at two hundred and forty three testimony or not.
I think it is or some bloody thing. And you
know when you think, when you think something, it doesn't
work out, you know. So I just keep a very
open mind and have watched the game as an analyst
and to help the players and not be a fan,

(01:37:01):
and hopefully they can.

Speaker 18 (01:37:03):
All your hope is that all your players.

Speaker 11 (01:37:05):
They go out there put their best foot forward. Now
if it's not good enough, it's not good enough. That
it is good enough, that's great.

Speaker 5 (01:37:12):
How did you find the experience of coaching against the
All Blacks last year?

Speaker 3 (01:37:16):
Difficult?

Speaker 11 (01:37:17):
Very difficult. In a perfect world, I said, you know,
I'd just skipped those two Rugby Championship games to stay
at home on those too and just do Argentina and
Sarah Cever. It didn't make that way, does it. So
it's difficult. And it's lovely to go into the shed
and Wellington we're all invited in and it was different
because it's not my shed anymore, because I was there

(01:37:38):
as a guest, and it was lovely to be invited
and meet some really good friends. You know, guys I've
coached and management that I've worked for many years with,
so our friendships. You know, that's the wonderful thing about sport,
and that that friendships that you will have forever.

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Indeed, then, just to finish, Mike, are you able to
watch rugby just for the spectacle of a game of
rugby or is that not possible now that you've been
involved with the game at such a high coaching level
for so long?

Speaker 7 (01:38:06):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (01:38:07):
I you know, are you either got your coach's hat
on or your fan hat?

Speaker 3 (01:38:10):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 11 (01:38:11):
I can go down to the gavernor's bay partly, and
I used to go down there and watch, you know,
say the Crusaders play or whatever, and you've just got
your fan hat on. You're sitting there having put the
locals watching a game at footing. And I have no
problem with that at all, you know, and really enjoy it,
you know. But then you know, when you're involved in

(01:38:32):
a team, well you've got to put your coaching hat on,
you know. But I think that's the easy way to
describe it. Are you do you have skin in the
game or you're just a fan?

Speaker 5 (01:38:41):
The book's a cracker Mike, it's called coach lessons from
an All Blacks legend out now. Really appreciate you taking
the time for a chat. Made all the all the
best in the series against the British and Irish lines
over the next three weekends.

Speaker 11 (01:38:52):
Thanks very much. Have a good day.

Speaker 5 (01:38:54):
You have a good day too, Mike. Thanks indeed, Mike
crom there preparing with Joe Schmidt to take on the mate.

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
Of the British and Irish lines.

Speaker 5 (01:39:01):
First Test is tonight ten o'clock New Zealand time at Brisbane.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
Some call studying and Brisbane.

Speaker 5 (01:39:06):
So after the All Blacks game, time to get home
and watch the Lions against Australia, the first of three
Test matches over the next three weekends. Two twenty three
Rugby Royalty has arrived here at the Roaming Giant and
Heafe Terras.

Speaker 8 (01:39:22):
Well.

Speaker 5 (01:39:22):
I'm sure he won't describe himself as that, but Matthew
Cooper is here, one of the white cut All rugby
team's greats, current president of New Zealand Rugby.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
He's going to join us for a chat right after this.

Speaker 5 (01:39:35):
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(01:39:58):
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(01:40:18):
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Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
Good play from the Roaming Giant in Hamilton. It's weekend
Sport with Jason Fne and GJ. Guner Homes New Zealand's
most trusted home builder News Talk zb.

Speaker 2 (01:40:37):
To twenty seven.

Speaker 5 (01:40:38):
It's been wonderful traveling around with the All Blacks Test
matches over the last three weeks. We find ourselves in
Hamilton at the Roaming Giants Heafy Terraces and joined by Wow.
I was gonna say, way Cuto Rugby Royalty. I think
I've probably got it right. Sixty three games for Hawks
Bay first of all, one hundred and twenty three for
White Cuttle fifteen hundred out eighty seven points, easily the

(01:40:59):
most in Mulu history. In fact, nearly nine hundred and
fifty more than the next best. Eight Super Rugby games
for the Highlanders, twenty five for the che's All Blacks
debut in nineteen eighty seven. Black Jersey twenty six times,
including eight Test matches, two hundred and twenty four points.
Are now President of New Zealand Rugby, Matthew Cooper.

Speaker 17 (01:41:17):
Nice to see you, mate, Yeah, great to be here, pioneer.

Speaker 15 (01:41:20):
I'm really looking forward to having a Test match in Hamilton,
my home and.

Speaker 17 (01:41:26):
I'm through. This is rugby country and we could.

Speaker 15 (01:41:28):
Say that about most of New Zealand, but yeah, pretty
special for this region.

Speaker 2 (01:41:32):
Yeah, I think you can genuinely say it about the
White Catter.

Speaker 5 (01:41:34):
They love their rugby here, you know, back to and
I want to talk about your playing days in a while,
but it seems a long time since we had a
Test match, ye twenty twenty two.

Speaker 3 (01:41:43):
Yeah it is.

Speaker 17 (01:41:43):
It's a while.

Speaker 15 (01:41:44):
It's a challenge because you balance, you balance gate revenue
and against against the importance of sharing the game around
our nation.

Speaker 17 (01:41:56):
And we get that.

Speaker 15 (01:41:58):
And if ever a place in New Zealand deserves test matches,
it's christ Church when they come online next year with Takaha,
and we're looking forward to that. But this place here,
it's a I heard you earlier today around what we'll
see tonight, and we'll see a passionate, close crowd twenty
four to twenty five thousand, and yeah, it's true.

Speaker 17 (01:42:18):
And I mentioned, not only mentioned the White Shadow, but
you know, I always I'm.

Speaker 15 (01:42:23):
Really really big on in my other role around Thames Valley,
King Country and across the Kaims the back planey. They'll
be here in Droves as well, and and up up
the road at County.

Speaker 17 (01:42:32):
So it's a it's a good part of New Zealand.

Speaker 15 (01:42:34):
I'm I'm you know, I was just a kid growing
up in Hawk's Bay and I was all gravitated by
the way Gatto. I gravit how they played their game,
how they played rugby, you know, the back line. The
innovation about Wayatto and I suppose thirty eight years on.

Speaker 17 (01:42:51):
This place is about innovation. The White cuta was. You know,
there's a lot good things happen in this in this province.

Speaker 5 (01:42:57):
Well, you were part of a of a fantastic White
Countle side. When you think back, and I'm not sure
how often you do, but when you do, what stands
out most to you about your playing days for White
cutp oh.

Speaker 15 (01:43:09):
They were they were special. I mean the red jail
on black, the Mulu, you know, the great crowds of
Rugby Park, thirty odd thousand, they creamed they, you know,
crammed them in. And it was just the team. I
mean we were a good team. We had great players,
you know, good players, but we were at stars.

Speaker 17 (01:43:30):
But we were we were a really solid side. I
mean we would play, would play the great Auckland side.

Speaker 15 (01:43:35):
And that's one game ninety three, the Shield game and
ninety three up at Eden Park in front of forty
eight thousand, and you know, Auckland brilliant, outstanding there, brilliant
side fourteen.

Speaker 17 (01:43:46):
All blacks, one Manu Samoa.

Speaker 15 (01:43:48):
We had three all blacks and we went up there
and I always vividly remember that it was one of
those ones where you say, you look at your mate
and you saved yourself in a white cuttough jersey, I'm
not going to let your mate down. And that's sort
of what it's like when you're in this place.

Speaker 17 (01:44:03):
It's it is very much about matship.

Speaker 15 (01:44:05):
It's about working hard, it's about you know, pushing yourselves
to limits.

Speaker 2 (01:44:10):
I love hearing that that I mean because that Auckland
side annoying.

Speaker 5 (01:44:16):
It was sixty two challengers successfully repelled. When you went
up that day, did you feel like something special was
going to happen?

Speaker 15 (01:44:25):
Well, we had a bit of an insight Piney the
year before in a semi final we played Auckland ad
Eden Park which led to our the first ever Grand
final and provincial rugby on national provincial rugby against the
Targo in ninety two.

Speaker 17 (01:44:38):
So we came away there. Perby did a pretty good.

Speaker 15 (01:44:42):
Howk there the hand of God, there was a it
was a not a bad tight head from Perby at
tight head.

Speaker 17 (01:44:49):
But we but we know we dominate.

Speaker 15 (01:44:52):
But yeah, we knew that we had a side to
match them up front, and if you didn't match the
great Auckland forward pack, you'd come second all the time.
And we were strong on defense. We were really very
much like the French. We had had a very suffocating
French with Rhece Ellison myself. We had an absolute superstar

(01:45:12):
and an eighteen year old Todd Miller at fullback and
just some really you know, your Monklies, your Mitchell's, your Jerrems,
your Gordon's, your Anderson's, your Low's, your your Gatlands.

Speaker 17 (01:45:22):
It was just a good side Stephenson.

Speaker 15 (01:45:24):
So we I think there was an there was that
mystique and fear of Auckland had gone, and so that
day it had to you had to play really well,
it had to walk, click, and it did.

Speaker 2 (01:45:35):
What were the early days of super rugby like for you, Yeah.

Speaker 17 (01:45:38):
Really interesting.

Speaker 15 (01:45:39):
It was that navigation of it was probably a little
bit like your conversation I.

Speaker 17 (01:45:44):
Heard earlier around a league.

Speaker 15 (01:45:46):
You know, we were we're in the midst of the
world rugby corporation and and and there was so much
going on and once it was once it was a
line there, you know, once it's all sorted, it was Okay,
the the the contracts Piney that were offered are a
little bit different today that so I don't know if

(01:46:08):
it was true professionalism, but it was.

Speaker 17 (01:46:11):
It was great that navigation.

Speaker 15 (01:46:12):
I think it took a while here in terms of
letting go of Waikato Mulus being the number one and
then forming that bond with the Chiefs, and that did
take a little while.

Speaker 4 (01:46:23):
And now it's.

Speaker 17 (01:46:24):
Positioned really well.

Speaker 15 (01:46:25):
I mean everyone knows that it's Chiefs and then the
Waikato and it's positioned really well.

Speaker 17 (01:46:29):
And yeah, they were good days.

Speaker 15 (01:46:31):
I missed the cut in year one and I got
drafted to become an Otago Highlander and so that was
really special to play with that brilliant Otago southern side
of the time.

Speaker 17 (01:46:42):
So just another great experience for me in my career.

Speaker 15 (01:46:45):
Was to be a Highlander and then lucky enough to
come back and have three years with the Chiefs.

Speaker 5 (01:46:49):
You have been in Duneda and Wellington the last two weekends.
What have you made of the All Blacks Fronts test
matches one and two?

Speaker 17 (01:46:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:46:55):
Really good.

Speaker 17 (01:46:57):
I think that was a very good French performance.

Speaker 15 (01:46:59):
I wasn't surprised because I go back to nineteen eighty
six and the Cavaliers are over in South Africa and
they picked Brian Lahore and the team pick a new team,
a young team called the Baby.

Speaker 17 (01:47:11):
Blacks, and they're down at Lancaster Park.

Speaker 15 (01:47:14):
These men, these twenty two, I think it would have
been at the time, not twenty three. They put on
an All Black jersey and then they were part of
that legacy. They were having to be the legacy of
All Black rugby at the time.

Speaker 17 (01:47:27):
Then you know nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 15 (01:47:30):
And they created something quite special. They had Serge Blanco,
they had Philips, they had Jean Pierre Reeve, the Gui
la Porte, they had absolute superstar team.

Speaker 17 (01:47:43):
But the All Blacks.

Speaker 15 (01:47:43):
Beat them and it didn't matter. It wasn't the Baby Blacks.
The All Blacks beat the French. And I felt that
was a bit like that last a couple of weeks
ago in Dunedin, and I thought that that preach team
played really well.

Speaker 17 (01:47:53):
I caveat that by saying.

Speaker 15 (01:47:55):
That was the first time the All Blacks had got
together in twenty five after the Super Rugby season, so
they put it together. They then they went to Denise,
then they went to Wellington and and and I was
super impressed with that side. I've been super impressed with
the new boys coming into the All Blacks. I think
that there's that the what I've seen last year in

(01:48:16):
terms of what the coaching group under Razer are trying
to do here is is is play a pretty quick game.
Is to play a fast game. But this year they
want to finish. They if they finished a couple of
times last year they would They would have won in Johannesburg,
they should have won in Paris.

Speaker 17 (01:48:32):
They know that.

Speaker 15 (01:48:33):
And then and then to see this philosophy of having
winning the much treasured Dave Gallaher Cup, which is which
means a lot to to the All Blacks to then
do what he talks about, I want to be four deep,
Scott Robinson talks about I want to be four deep.
I want to make sure two years out from Australia
we've got depth in all position. The Wellington performance has

(01:48:54):
enabled that. That's enabled the All Blacks to to give
and and and I really hope it works. I really
wanted to work tonight because we've got this is an
exciting team. It's a particularly excited about the new players
coming through and you know the chance of a new
a new debutante as well, Ruben Love coming in for that,

(01:49:14):
Quinta Pie coming back after a long time, the great
story of Anton Lennett Brown. Luke Jakinson's another good story
because he's a very powerful loose forward, but he hasn't
had game time, So you know, I think you know
this is a really good opportunity. It gears up for
the Rugby Championship, so you're really looking forward to it?

Speaker 2 (01:49:32):
Yes, I can't wait.

Speaker 5 (01:49:33):
So you're now president of New Zealand Rugby. Does that
mean you can watch the game or do you have
to shake too many hands for that?

Speaker 17 (01:49:38):
Oh? No, I always do. I always make sure I
watch a game.

Speaker 15 (01:49:41):
I'm a I'm a very passionate fan and I always
will be and very proud of this whole group, This
whole all black group are incredible people.

Speaker 17 (01:49:49):
The staff are amazing.

Speaker 15 (01:49:51):
Tonight, well, there will be a lot of good partners
that will be with us tonight, and our events team
are incredible. So I'll be up there with board members
and Robbo and we will we will entertain our people
who look after us.

Speaker 17 (01:50:05):
And and yeah, I'm I'm in.

Speaker 15 (01:50:09):
A very privileged role and I don't underestimate it. Piney
it's it's an absolute dream. It's a pleasure to be
involved with the All Blacks, it's a pleasure to be
involved with the Black Ferns. It's a you know, it's
a pleasure to be involved with our domestic game. So
I'm you know, I'm looking forward to tonight and I'm
you know, I love the opportunity of what this presents.

Speaker 17 (01:50:32):
There's a lot of good things happening.

Speaker 15 (01:50:33):
I'm so looking forward to Round the twenties tomorrow and
revego in Italy as they take on the South Africa
and the World Cup Under twenty final. The Black Ferns
are tracking all right, we're looking we're looking to head
away shortly and we've got a domestic competition about to
start in both the FBC and the NBC and the Heartland.

Speaker 17 (01:50:52):
So yeah, this is great. I'm I'm I'm loving it.

Speaker 11 (01:50:55):
Good.

Speaker 2 (01:50:55):
How's your brother Greg getting on?

Speaker 17 (01:50:57):
Yeah good, he's a Greg's an international coach. He's been
in Utah and he's he's actually on the plane now
to Japan. So he's got another surjouron in Japan and
no special brother. He's him and I.

Speaker 15 (01:51:10):
Him and I are still talking after replace them in
ninety two as the All Black fallback.

Speaker 17 (01:51:15):
Against the Irish.

Speaker 15 (01:51:16):
So so I must long time the hold of grudge
of he is and they're very very very good brother
and know he's doing well, and yeh know we're.

Speaker 17 (01:51:24):
You know, it's it's just nice at the moment, Piney.

Speaker 15 (01:51:26):
I sense that our focus at the moment, and it's
a it's a big it's a big organization. We think
about our commercial, you think about international, you think about global.
We know that we could play France anywhere and we
would draw massive crowds, and the same with South Africa.
There is that brand, the brand All Blacks is massive globally,
and it's also really important this game domestically, and there's

(01:51:48):
a lot of work going on about competitions and and so.

Speaker 17 (01:51:51):
All that complexity. But I'm really feeling good about our game.

Speaker 15 (01:51:55):
Because we're in a good space of focusing on rugby
and and you know, tonight it's another exciting night. And
I have said to everyone, to the board and to
members of the staff, welcome to Paradise. At the start
of the week and I remember Raiser come up to
him and he said, yesterday he said, he said, Coops,
he said, you talk about paradise.

Speaker 17 (01:52:14):
He said, We've had the weddest.

Speaker 15 (01:52:15):
Week we've ever had an international rugby, so I don't
know how much I can do that, but I wouldn't
love anywhere else fighting.

Speaker 5 (01:52:23):
Good on your mate, It's so good to see you, Matthew.
Your enthusiasm is infectious. Great day of your popping in
on such a busy day, mate.

Speaker 2 (01:52:28):
We'll see it tonight.

Speaker 17 (01:52:29):
Very good.

Speaker 5 (01:52:29):
Thanks finding Matthew Cooper there, President of New Zealand Rugby
and former All Black, joining us at the Roaming Giant
here as we build towards kickoff tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:52:37):
Just on twenty one away from three back in a mow, counting.

Speaker 1 (01:52:42):
Down to all lagsby Frants on your Home of Sport
against Weekend Sport Live from the Roaming Giants in Hamilton
with Chason Vine and TJ Gun the homes New Zealand's
most trusted home builder News Talks.

Speaker 5 (01:52:54):
There'd be two forty two on news Talks b Weekend
Sport at the Roaming Giant. Just updating you on Live Sport.
Ranfilly Shield action at the Maniah Domain in Mania Thams Valley,
trying to wrestle the shield off tartanuky.

Speaker 2 (01:53:07):
I don't think that's going to happen.

Speaker 5 (01:53:09):
Approaching half time, Tartanucky lead Thames Valley forty three points
to nil, forty three nil approaching halftime. Something special this
afternoon for Wellington Phoenix football fans to enjoy. Their side
will take on Wrexham at Sky Stadium from five o'clock.
Wrexham have, of course become a global sensation thanks to
their purchase by Hollywood superstars Ryan Reynolds and Rob mclahenny,

(01:53:32):
the reality TV series which has been based around them,
and their three successive promotions which mean they're now just
one tier below the Premier League. In recent days, I've
visited eighty three year old David Jones through Welsh name.
He lives in Wellington but grew up in Wrexham and
has been a lifelong fan. I asked David first of all,

(01:53:54):
how he became a Wrexham fan as a young boy.

Speaker 23 (01:53:57):
Oh, my father was a nationally a Wrecksham fan. By
the age of six, he decided that he was willing
to me along there. We didn't have a car in
those days. We had a tandem and I would just
sit on the back. From the age of six to
the age of fifteen, I would see Wrexham regularly or

(01:54:20):
most of the if not all, of the home games.

Speaker 2 (01:54:22):
What do you remember about those years from a six
year old boy to your mid teens, What stands out
when you think about your visits to watch Rix and play.

Speaker 23 (01:54:31):
In those days? They were very so up and down
moments when they looked like they were going to head
for the Premiere what's now the Premier Division and they'd
end up back in the National Division. Followed them very closely.
They had some really really good players. I mean I
remembers of a center half by the name of Alan Fox.

(01:54:51):
I thought he should have been playing for Wales. He
actually played for Wales under twenty threes, but he never
made the full team much I think were diabolical. I
don't know if you would know. They had a full
back called Ali McGowan. I played left full back in
my of soccer days, even though I've right footed. They

(01:55:12):
obviously to put me with a left back, so you know,
and he was really my idols of the center forward.
Tommy Bannon was another sort of favorite of mine who
scored an awful lot of goals.

Speaker 4 (01:55:25):
In that time.

Speaker 23 (01:55:26):
Even now, I mean when I picked up pick up
the Sunday papers. I go online on the Sunday. The
first team I'm always looking for is Wrexham. Probably was
one of the last matches I saw. Wrexham played Manchester
United in the FA Cup and there were thirty four
thousand people there. Then we lost five knells. I don't

(01:55:48):
talk about it too much, but since then, I since
I moved over here, they've obviously changed the ground considerably
and at the moment they only actually I can only
take twelve thousand. I've got a grandson who's a regular
SI supporter and you have to be a member now
to actually get to the match. You know, you can't

(01:56:10):
just turn up a turnstile. Although now they are doing
so well, I would imagine, and I think I've heard
or read somewhere that they are extending the ground again. Wrexham,
I mean some big news to North Wales, even though
as I said earlier, they've had their ups and downs.

Speaker 5 (01:56:32):
When you came to New Zealand then, how were you
able to stay in touch? I mean you talked about
the papers, I mean Sunday Morning British football results, no
doubt were you able to stay connected to the club
once you came to New Zealand.

Speaker 23 (01:56:44):
Not connected to the club, but I mean I did
have a brother and I've mentioned my grandson who were
both supporters and they would regularly give me some updates.

Speaker 10 (01:56:59):
You know.

Speaker 23 (01:57:00):
They had some pretty rough times. They went into liquidation
at one stage and were saved by the fans. The
fan rallied round and supported them in terms of finding
money etc. Since these American actors when they bought at
the club, I understand, I mean there was worth about
one million and now apparently they're talking about two hundred million.

Speaker 5 (01:57:25):
How do you think long time ricks and fans feel
about a couple of American actors coming in and taking
over their football club.

Speaker 23 (01:57:33):
Well, there might have been a bit upset to start with,
but when you see what's happened in the last three years,
you know, they these guys have actually taken Wrexham from
National Division through to the Championship with you know now
even talking about some Premier League next time. So the

(01:57:55):
fans would be absolutely but he run away with it,
you know. But as I say, I wasn't there whence
these guys took over, but with the state Wrexham was
in and I'm pretty sure that they were accepted the
guys pretty quickly.

Speaker 5 (01:58:12):
And rixam are coming to New Zealand, not only in
New Zealand but to Wellington where you now live. Are
you going to be able to get to the game.

Speaker 23 (01:58:19):
I'm certainly going to the game. I rang this grandson
and christ Church and I said, Morgan, you and I
will be going to this match. And he said, oh great,
thank you very much. And then my son Ever heard
that and he said I'm coming to her and sold
his partner. My daughter Nesta also overheard it and seeing

(01:58:41):
a partner coming along as well. So it's cost me
six hundred dollars. Well, I was supporting Wrexham. It was
four prints, you know, as a six and seven year
old and has forked out bloody three hundred pounds. I
had to take that family.

Speaker 5 (01:58:58):
And just back to when you were a boy and
went along. Can you remember those moments where maybe for
the first time you saw that expense of grass as
you walked in there as a six year old and
start your love of the game.

Speaker 23 (01:59:10):
Yeah, well, I mean yeah, I mean you're blown away
by by it really, especially at the age of six.
But I mean I still got used it because once
I became a journalist myself, and I got to go
to lots and lots of sports occasions, you know, cricket
matches and the like, and but no obviously as a
six year old, I've blown away and at one stage

(01:59:31):
the ground was so full. I think he made me
in a cup match and I was getting squashed and
one of the players, I can't I've been trying to
think of his name, one of the players. I think
it was. It was Stoke City that were playing. One
of their players came over and got hold of me
and put me to set on the grass, you know,

(01:59:52):
actually on the corn just from them, just behind the line.

Speaker 2 (01:59:58):
Because I guess in those days here it wasn't all ster,
was it.

Speaker 5 (02:00:00):
Were you actually understanding terrace's watching always in the terraces?

Speaker 23 (02:00:04):
Yeah, I mean we couldn't have phone to go into
the in the sit down area, so it was certainly
not until I started work myself. As I say, it
was only four points ago in and my father sort
of coughed up. It wouldn't have coughed up to take
me to the seated area mostly supporters stood. In those days.

(02:00:25):
It seemed to me an accepted thing, you know, could.

Speaker 2 (02:00:28):
You see you're a six year old boy. Could you
see standing with all these adults around.

Speaker 23 (02:00:32):
Because I would be in the front, you see, I
mean my father would be behind me or whoever was
taking me there. So yeah, I would be right up
the wall with the pitch just next to it, a
little bit of ground between the wall and the pitch,
and that's what I sat on when I was feeling
pretty uncomfortable one day.

Speaker 2 (02:00:53):
Amazing memory.

Speaker 5 (02:00:54):
So from the six year old boy to the man
in his eighties, now you're going to almost come full
circle to see your football team again. You probably thought
I'll never get to watch them live again.

Speaker 23 (02:01:04):
Well, well, absolutely yeah, well and certainly not, certainly not
over here. I may have been our home a few
times and never quite got to offer it pal match.

Speaker 2 (02:01:14):
That is the utterly delightful.

Speaker 5 (02:01:16):
David Jones, eighty three year old Wrexham fan based in Wellington,
looking forward to getting along with the crowd of what
I'm hearing is going to be over twenty five thousand
there this afternoon when Wellington Phoenix host Wrexham. It's a
pre season frimhly for both sides. One I know that
they're both looking forward to and you might have caught
this news this morning.

Speaker 2 (02:01:35):
I'm sure you have that.

Speaker 5 (02:01:36):
Libby Kikacci, former Wellington Phoenix player who's been overseas for
many years now, has this morning been confirmed as Rixham's
latest signing. He mon't be playing in this game. He's
over in the UK at the moment, but when Rexham
start their championship season in a month or so, Libby
Caccacci will be wearing Wrexham colors. Night away from Three

(02:01:58):
News Talks, he'd.

Speaker 1 (02:01:58):
Be live from the Rooming Giant and Hamilton ahead of
the Old Lags Fee France. We Sport with Jason Pine
and GJ. Gunner Homes New Zealand's most trusted home builder
on your Home of Sport News Talks.

Speaker 5 (02:02:14):
Vy coming up five to three. The show is just
about done. I must say it's going to be rather
I don't know, a little bit deflating. Going back to
the studio next Saturday. After three consecutive Saturday afternoon shows
at three magnificent pubs Emerson's in Dunedin, Shed twenty two
in Wellington and today the utterly Magnificent Roaming Giant and

(02:02:37):
Heathy Terrace, Hamilton.

Speaker 2 (02:02:38):
It's been buzzing all day.

Speaker 5 (02:02:39):
We have greatly enjoyed being here, and we thank the
team for hosting us this afternoon. Massive thanks to Victoria
and Tomato for your on site support as well, and
to Andy McDonald beck in the studio who doesn't get
any of the fun. You just have to sit there
and kind of push buttons.

Speaker 24 (02:02:56):
Yeah, well, I'm glad you'll just get to know what
I've been feeling again for the past last three weeks.

Speaker 2 (02:03:02):
So I'm going to go to a pub straight after this.
I think good, good, So you should, so you should
have you got a song before.

Speaker 7 (02:03:07):
You do that?

Speaker 2 (02:03:07):
Yeah, yeah, I do Pinney.

Speaker 3 (02:03:10):
Cold Play.

Speaker 2 (02:03:10):
I've got cold Play that lead us out.

Speaker 24 (02:03:13):
I'm sure if anyone lives near an internet or has
access to it, you know why.

Speaker 2 (02:03:19):
Enjoy, We'll enjoy. We'll see tomorrow. To wrap the tears
from mid Day, Piping.

Speaker 25 (02:03:23):
Out Shine.

Speaker 4 (02:03:49):
Shine Shine.

Speaker 25 (02:04:00):
Shine by.

Speaker 13 (02:04:06):
Follow the cola Shine look at the start the card
the Shine Fall.

Speaker 4 (02:04:21):
Are the things that you do For more from Weekend
Sport with Jason Fine.

Speaker 1 (02:04:31):
Listen live to news talks it be Weekends from Midday
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.

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