Full Show Podcast: 23 November 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason vine
from News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
The only place for the big names, the big issues,
the big controversies and the big conversations. It's all on
Weekend Sport with Jason Vain on your home of Sport
News Talks ed B.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Hi.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
There you a good afternoon and welcome into the Sunday
edition of Weekend Sport on News Talks VVEP. For November
twenty third, Happy sixty ninth birthday to Bruce Edgar, Happy
sixty seventh to Martin Snedden, and happy sixty fourth birthday
of MERVHWS two Test All Black swinger Joeli VINDERI also
born on the date nineteen seventy three. He passed away

(00:51):
far too soon in two thousand and two. I'm Jason
Pineshow produced by Annie McDonald. We're talking sport with you
until three. The final All Blacks Test of the year
is in the books and the curtain comes down on fees.

Speaker 5 (01:06):
In twenty twenty.

Speaker 6 (01:07):
Five for the All.

Speaker 7 (01:08):
Blacks No Brand Slam, three losses, ten woms, final score
fifty two to twenty six and.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Cardiff All Blacks Assistant Coach Jason Holland is along shortly.
It will be his final interview with us as All
Black's assistant coach. He is exiting that post. Of course.
We'll get an assessment a bit later in the afternoon
from Gregor Paul from the New Zealand Herald, who watched
on in Cardiff and was part of our radio commentary.
But it's your evaluation. I'm really after why she quite

(01:39):
enjoyed this morning finishing with a bit of a flourish,
a bright end to an at times challenging year. How
does it change the way you feel about the All
Blacks at the midway point of the World Cup cycle
and what is your assessment of twenty twenty five as
an All Blacks fan, now that all thirteen Test matches

(02:00):
have been played, Lines open immediately and across the afternoon
to review this morning and to evaluates the All Blacks year,
other matters around today. The first Ashes Test, what was
going on there all over inside two days in Perth.
It took just one hundred and forty one overs of

(02:22):
cricket for Australia to draw first blood and win the
first Test by eight wicket. It's going to get some
reaction to that your thoughts as well. What has happened
to Test cricket? And imagine, just imagine if you had
tickets for Day three today Keewilliam Lawson's going to start
sixth on the grid in this afternoon's Las Vegas Grand Prix.
We'll get you to Vegas with Formula one journalist Mick

(02:43):
Acres and Melbourne Storm forward Ali Cutta won't play in
the NRL next year. The club have confirmed that he
won't be available for the twenty twenty sixth season after
he required emergency brain surgery and the wake of Tong
has lost to the Kiwis in Auckland earlier in the month.
What can we learn from this very unfortunate situation? Kiwis

(03:03):
Doctor Greg McLeod is going to join us on the
show this suff the name James mccony two in his
regular Sunday slot that as always, the show is yours
to mold and to shape in any way that you
see fit, So please get involved. At eight one hundred
eighty ten eighty is the number fore your phone calls.
Senior texts into nineteen nineteen normal charges apply. Emails can

(03:25):
go to Jason at NEWSTALKSEDB dot co dot MZ it
has bang on ten past midday.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
From breaking down the Hail Mary's and the empic fails
weekends for it with Jason nine News Talk.

Speaker 7 (03:39):
ZMB fighting I'd look be ranging around now, takes on
the line, gets around them, buying a knocking one arm
past Sarka Yoani all left hand side and kaved Clark.
We'll get that second after all.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
And the seventh of the day for the All Blacks
fifty two twenty six, including a perfect eight from eight
from the Kicking Tea for Damien McKenzie, highest All Black
score of the year ten wins from thirteen in twenty
twenty five. All Blacks assistant coach Jason Holland is with
us from Cardiff. Jason, thanks for taking the call as always.
How do you evaluate the final All Blacks performance of

(04:16):
the year.

Speaker 8 (04:17):
Oh yea, look, it was mostly important to us that
we put together a performance tonight.

Speaker 9 (04:23):
So yeah, generally pretty happy.

Speaker 8 (04:26):
I think we you know, we scored some good tries
and we played some good footy at times and you know,
really put a really tenacious Welsh team away in the
end after after they came pretty hard early. But you know,
I think we're a bit more accurate than we had
been at times this season, which meant we could hold
onto the ball and be confident to hold the ball
and get to wits and score some tries. So we're yeah,

(04:48):
we just wanted to put a put a performance together
that we were happy with and what we've sort of
worked at during the week.

Speaker 9 (04:54):
There's a lot of things we trained pretty hard to
get and we got tonight.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
Did you sense and energy from players who perhaps have
had limited opportunities on the tour before tonight?

Speaker 9 (05:04):
Yeah, and that was all you know, you'd expect that,
wouldn't you know?

Speaker 8 (05:07):
We had We had young guys bring the energy, but
we also had guys, you know, especially the midfield, you know,
the older guys that played ady odd tests who were
getting their opportunity and you know, good professionals who were
always going to bring that energy and performance. So it
was a good mix, you know, the younger a couple
of younger boys getting opportunities and but you know, it's
easy when you don't get a game of forty for

(05:28):
three or four weeks to make some silly little errors
and that sort of thing. And I thought in general
we were able to build some pressure, especially the back
end of going to that second.

Speaker 9 (05:37):
Half and put the wash away. So yeah, it's been
a good week for energy. The boys have been good.

Speaker 8 (05:42):
And these guys are always always front up on the
all black jersey when they get during the week, you know,
when they get an opportunity.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
What was the hurt of last week used as as
fuel in a conscious sense this week.

Speaker 5 (05:56):
In a way.

Speaker 8 (05:59):
I don't know if you need to really use it.
You know, we were, you know, we boys are obviously
really disappointed with last week, and I think that just naturally,
you know, as coaches, you didn't have to use it,
you know, because naturally the boys are hurting, and so
they were. They were desperate to you know, come Tuesday
morning last week to try really hard for the week
and get things right.

Speaker 9 (06:19):
And yeah, for the most part, we saw the saw
how that turned out tonight.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
You consider just four penalties in the entire game today,
how much of a focus was discipline in your prep
for this one?

Speaker 9 (06:33):
Yeah, it's always it's always a big focus.

Speaker 8 (06:37):
The funny thing about it is that maybe sometimes media
and that don't see is you know that if you
hold onto the ball and you get your tech going well,
you get penalties and I think it's a big part
of it that we held onto the ball pretty well
for most parts in the Welsh were we're having to
give away penalties, you know, to slow down the attack,
and that happens both sides of the ball. So you know,

(06:59):
we won the year a bit more tonight. You know,
I thought Will Jordan was outstanding in the air, which
meant we had the ball a bit more and that's
what That's what discipline looks like sometimes that gives the
penalties around possessions.

Speaker 9 (07:11):
So yeah, we're really happy with that. We were smart.

Speaker 8 (07:15):
Toms Ellison's got us going really good in our DA
around our discipline and it's been on side and it
sort of helps helps METHRII doesn't that the opposition doesn't
get into your twenty two and then you get opportunities
to kicking them in twenty two and get your game.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
Gun and again they consider fourteen penalties plus the yellow
cards of course. So absolutely, Ruben love a guy You've
had a lot to do with Addie Eric and he
went today and what might his All Black's future look like?

Speaker 9 (07:41):
Oh future is clearly clearly massive.

Speaker 8 (07:45):
You know, He's he's been absolute champion on this tour obviously,
you know, he's got d mack and body in front
of him for the first three games, and he's set
the boys up by in our training weeks absolutely brilliantly
by being, you know, playing exactly where the opposition we're
going to play on the weekend.

Speaker 9 (08:03):
And for him to get us opportunity, you know, was.

Speaker 8 (08:05):
Awesome for home. And he's a great talent fifteen ten,
you know, and you saw what he can do. We'll
just try a getting off that big, banging off that
right foot and offend and those are the great things
that when Rubes is getting all the simple parts in
this game right then you see the magic so mass,
the future mass of future and there's no doubt that.

Speaker 9 (08:25):
He'll work hard for it. There's not that many people
that work harder than Rubes.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
And this time last year, Fabian Holland wasn't even an
All Black. He's played all but one of your thirteen
tests this year. He's just been named World Rugby's breakthrough
Player of the Year. How do you assays his development
as an All Black.

Speaker 9 (08:43):
It's got to be put into some sort of movie.

Speaker 8 (08:45):
I reckon the way, you know, the Yeah, growing up
as a kid in the Netherlands and then coming out
to you know, those last couple of years of school.
It's pretty phenomenal. And again he's just a good man
who worked hard and he's obviously massively talented and some
of his worker in the line out is you know,

(09:06):
right up there. So there's been some good stories like
that around some of the young fellows, you know, and
then there's a good for young fellows that are that
are doing some good things and readular kick on.

Speaker 9 (09:16):
So it's really encouraging.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
Yeah, we're just on that. Forty five players have worn
the Black jersey this year. Some of that's through necessity
with injuries, et cetera, but forty five players have played
for the All Blacks this year. How do you gauge
the depth that you've built?

Speaker 8 (09:30):
Look, well, I know Ray talks a lot about being
four deep in every position, you know, and we feel
like we feel like, you know, we're getting there, you know,
and lots of guys have that exposure and even if
it's not necessarily exposure in test matches, it's it's been
on a tour like this or you know, in places
like Argentina and and understanding and all that sort of

(09:52):
adds to your ability to be able to perform under pressure.

Speaker 9 (09:55):
So they're all getting good time and as you've seen
with some of them.

Speaker 8 (09:58):
You know, we had Wally Satiti come into it last
year and we know where he's got to and fabes
and rubes and you talk around those sorts of guys,
it's yeah, it's it's it's it's as exciting where they
can get to and and there was another year under
the belt where they where they can take it to.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Are you able to appraise the year as a whole
or is it a bit early for that.

Speaker 8 (10:20):
Yeah, it's probably not always a big picture Pinty, without
holding me to anything, it's I think it's there's a
really great moments in our season.

Speaker 9 (10:28):
There's some great things in it.

Speaker 8 (10:29):
But I think we're you know, we'd we'd accept and
challenge ourselves and our consistency of doing things, you know,
doing things right for longer, and that's going to be
a big, big work on going forward.

Speaker 9 (10:43):
You know, we play some good footing.

Speaker 8 (10:44):
And then we make silly eras or or or take
the pressure off us, you know, off the opposition and
put them back on to us. So you know, whether
that school set or a little bit of the way
that you know, we lose the year A lot were
at times during the season, which is turning games. There's
definitely things that where this team needs to be better,

(11:05):
But there's a potential because you see such good parts
of the game for so long.

Speaker 9 (11:10):
But we're just in a test match.

Speaker 8 (11:11):
That won't be good enough if you're not executing or smart,
or or kicking well or catching well under pressure. So
the beauty about this group is and and and probably
internally that will challenge each other pretty hard, you know.

Speaker 9 (11:29):
So that's it bodes well for for the next couple
of years.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
And how are your emotions today as you now prepare
to step away from the All Blacks?

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (11:39):
Yeah, Look, it's been just just chatting to the boys
and just told them of how much I love the
All Blacks and always having always well, and it's been
it's just it's been awesome too. Actually we've had we've
had a good bit of fun and connected well, they're
all great men. And yeah, I'm mixed emotions a lot

(12:00):
of but you know, I'm I'm pretty uh pretty confident
that you know, it's time for me to move on.
But by the same token of from enjoyed and respect
these people in this environment massively and so well, have
a good night tonight, no doubt, and talk to tell
a few yards and talk about of rubbish and then
we'll move on.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
Got your next move sorted out?

Speaker 5 (12:21):
No, not yet, not yet.

Speaker 8 (12:23):
I always said that I didn't want to really talk
about it until I make sure I gave everything to
the next couple of weeks on this tour.

Speaker 5 (12:29):
So m No, I know you've got a job for me, mate.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
Oh well, I mean, I'll tell you what punditry you'd
fit nicely into it. Jas Absolutely, I think you've got
a lot more to I think you've got a lot
more to offer the coaching side of things before you
move to the media with me.

Speaker 9 (12:43):
Mate, But from what I know of your salary, I
might take it now.

Speaker 4 (12:48):
Wow, Jason, Joy your night, Thanks for chatting. Appreciate your
accessibility across the year.

Speaker 9 (12:53):
Thanks fining cheers mate.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
No, thank you, Jason. Jason Holland there for the last
time as an All Black's assistant coach at joining us
on weekend Sport. We wait to see what the future
holds for me. He'll pop up somewhere. He is bone
deep when it comes to rugby, absolutely loves the game.
I've got no idea what happened inside the All Blacks
camp that has led to him exiting, but he will
pop up somewhere without a shadow of a doubt in

(13:17):
a coaching sense. All right, lines open, oh eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty. Probably the last time we'll talk
to the All Blacks this year, although depending on what
happens with a review and that sort of thing, we
may well pick it up again in the in the
next month or so. But line's open now, oh eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. Please feel free to take
the conversation wherever you'd like. Two thoughts on today, thoughts
on the Northern TiO of thoughts on the All Blacks year.

(13:39):
Whatever is front of mind for you, here's your chance
to give voice to it. On eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty. Few random thoughts to start today. Was actually
a pretty relaxing watch, I have to say, compared to
some of the tests we've watched this year. We were
always going to win. There wasn't rarely a heck of
a lot at stake. Was there an open game. Lots
of try is quite a nice way actually to end
a challenging year for the All Blacks. More on that

(14:01):
in a second man in the match today Wallace to Titi,
huge shift, his best test of the year, Wallace the
tt Ardie Savier Peter Larkey that appeals as our best
loose forward trio. Moving into twenty twenty six, I thought
Ruben Love had a good game, scored a nice try,
good energy, clearly a big future. As Jason Holland just said,
crazy it was only his fourth test of the year.

(14:24):
He's been in and around the squad the whole time,
only four of thirteen tests and only two starts. For
those asking why he was taken off with twenty five
to go, sounds like he rolled an ankle, so nothing
nothing at play there as far as getting them out
of there early. And if we're talking combos for twenty
twenty six, Caleb Clark will Jordan Ruben Love as a

(14:47):
back three All Blacks Player of the Year. No contest,
Absolutely no contest. For the second year in a row,
a rookie was the All Black's best player. Fabian Holland
named World Rugby's Breakthrough Player of the Year for twenty
twenty five and for me, the front runner in fact
read the only option for All Blacks Player of the Year.

Speaker 10 (15:09):
What a story.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
The boy from the Netherlands who watched the All Blacks
from Afar had a dream and this year turned it
into reality in the most impressive impressive fashion. At the
other end of the experienced scale, Ricco Jowani, Anton Lennet Brown,
sever Reese for Lake Christie all got minutes today. I
thought they were all good, having been given very few
opportunities on this tour. But what does the future holt

(15:32):
for each of them in the Black Jersey, Because it's
entirely possible we may have seen the last of one
or more of those guys as All Blacks for Lake
Christie has almost certainly played his last Test once the
half back Cavalry returns next year. Noah Hothem definitely and
Dylan Pledger probably will go past him. Cam Roy guard
Cortez or utimas still there and Philake Christie's not even

(15:55):
signed beyond this year with New Zealand Rugby strong rumors
of a move to the UK for him for me,
for Lake Christie has been unfairly maligned. He's given very
good service to the All Blacks. Played twenty seven Test matches,
including a World Cup final and in that record lost
to South Africa in Wellington earlier this year. He was
the one guy who never stopped trying right to the end.

(16:17):
All the best of Finlay Christy for his next chapter.
The others. Rico Yowani eighty eight test matches, Anton Lenett
Brown eighty eight test matches, Severy thirty seven test matches,
all very loyal servants to the Black Jersey over an
extended period of time. But what will twenty twenty six
hold for them? Will they be there next year? Will
they be there in twenty twenty seven? Just before we

(16:40):
go to the lines. I'm sure the All Blacks will
enjoy some time together before flying home or heading off
on holiday, and rightly so. It's been a long year,
but the very important matter of reviewing the year needs
to be done while there are a few things still
fresh in the mind, because today won't and shouldn't mask
the major work ons needed. If the All Blacks that

(17:01):
are challenged the top table of world rugby again, to
be confident of beating South Africa in Johannesburg, to be
confident of beating France and Paris, to be confident of
beating England at Twickenham and for us as fans to
feel confident that they can go deep into the Rugby
World Cup in less than two years from now.

Speaker 11 (17:22):
The Voice of Sports on your home of Sport weekend.

Speaker 5 (17:26):
For jas.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
All right on hundred and eighty ten eighty for your thoughts.
Calls are stacking up. Let's get to them. Get I ben.

Speaker 12 (17:34):
A mate, Uh probably know of that. There's you the
pony with with your words, mate, that I want to
talk about the oblicks. I want to talk about Ireland.
I've settled for the rest of the world, the coming
up in the running rugby and the making context. And

(17:56):
I think the only way for the Abs to go
forward is to meet it and better, you know, come
up with faster runners, come up with us.

Speaker 6 (18:05):
How con t.

Speaker 12 (18:09):
I just think that the old, the old days of
us doing that and other teams doing kicks and and
beating us by penalty tries penalty kicks, that gone and
we just need to step up like we'll just watched
Ireland stand up to the goliath like the way they did. Ah,

(18:32):
but the the in Scotland, Scotland nearly head. I mean
that's Scotland. So this this this brain set that we've
got of oh you know, we're the All Blacks or
it'll be right. You know, it won't be right, and
we need to we need to change it. But yeah, man,
what a what a what a morning? Is spot pointing.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah, and the ben it was. Look, I think any
suggestion that that the all Blacks inside the All Blacks
camp anyway, and for fans too, that we are above
the rest now that I mean, that's gone. We're not
number one in the world. We're in the top four
in the world. I think if you were picking Rugby
World Cup semi finalists, would be one of them. But
there's no degree of absolute confidence that we would win

(19:19):
three big knockout matches in a row at a Rugby
World Cup right now. If we had to face France,
England and South Africa in three consecutive weeks, for example,
I'm not sure we would be utterly confident of winning
all three. We might win all three, but there's still
work to do, quite a bit of work to do
if we're to be more confident of that, I mean,

(19:39):
without being able to crystal ball, how will we feel
a year from now We've got a huge South African
two and next year four tests against South Africa. So
it might be that that is a turning point for
this site if they go over there and even square
that series three tests in South Africa one at a
yet to be disclosed neutral location. If we were to

(20:02):
come out of that series against a team that is
demonstrably better than anybody else right now at two two,
I think we'd be happy.

Speaker 13 (20:11):
Hello, right, good afternoon, Jason, here, are you very good?

Speaker 6 (20:15):
Right?

Speaker 4 (20:15):
Good to hear from you.

Speaker 13 (20:17):
I won't call your party everyone else does. I will
even calling first names. I'm one of the overage Jason,
following the days there with Wilson, Winn Ray and all
those sort of ones with the all backs, war breaks
and men were men. But I've met a few of
the guys. I've met Freggie McCormick face to face in

(20:38):
Tony Norton and Chris Wiley, but they will pass away now.
But those days rugby was a running game with everybody
wanted to go and watch because the wingers getting the.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
Tries, you know, like the on the wing then running
the ball.

Speaker 13 (21:01):
And passing and passing.

Speaker 5 (21:03):
Think.

Speaker 13 (21:03):
But nowadays that's some of these yellow cabs and red
as it's not football as such. Cases is it?

Speaker 4 (21:12):
Do you still enjoy watching it?

Speaker 14 (21:13):
Ray?

Speaker 3 (21:15):
I love watching it.

Speaker 5 (21:16):
Yes, I've run.

Speaker 13 (21:18):
I'm a real staunch run of the All Blacks ows
have been. But unfortunately I even got sky so I'll
sometimes get free to wear but listen to it on
the radio. But I have got one a little bit
of a bitch. Having a female referee is not really

(21:41):
good for men's rugby and I'm not being prejudiced for
in like that female should referee female games and men
referee men's games.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
Right, I don't agree. I completely disagree with that final point.
I thought Holly Davidson had a terrific game on the whistle. Actually,
I'll walk that back. A bit terrific might be taking
a bit far. She had a couple of issues around TMO,
but I thought she worked her way through them pretty well.
But if you compare Holly Davidson's performance on the whistle
today with all of the other performances of the referees

(22:14):
and All Blacks test matches this year, I think she's
right up there. I think her instructions were clear. I
think she defused a couple of situations. She relied on
the TMO perhaps a little bit too much. And maybe
if you're being ultra critical, she probably favored the All
Blacks a little bit too much in that game on

(22:35):
a couple of the tight calls. But I think an
overall assessment of Holly Davidson is a positive one and
I hope she gets to referee a lot more All
Blacks test matches. Holly, Hi, mate, A mate, Yeah.

Speaker 14 (22:47):
As you're saying there with Holly Datson, she'd done a
great job reffing. Definitely one of the best this year.
I agree with you're there and yeah to the All Blacks,
I think that was a great game. They showed a
lot of skill and very fast with the running ball,
and yeah, I was pretty impressed by it.

Speaker 5 (23:04):
Really.

Speaker 4 (23:05):
How do you feel confident and wise where we're right
in the middle of the World Cup cycle, right two
years since the last one, two years to the next one.
How would you describe your levels of optimism about the
next World Cup?

Speaker 14 (23:16):
I think in terms of the food pack and Jason Ryan,
I think we should be very confident there. He's a
very good coach there by looking like the best I've
been at the moment, like today, very good and against
South Africa as well. The back line, I think we
learned today that just Reuben Love's very good and he
needs to be starting. And also while we're there, we've

(23:37):
kind of sounds to me that we're being a bit
overcritical on the All Blacks. I think we've got the
best versatility that in you know, the international game. In
my opinion, Will Jordan is my player of the year
because he played at fourteen today, playing at fifteen all
year and he does that so well. So he's one
of the best wingers and he's the best fallback in

(23:57):
the All Blacks. So yeah, I think Will Jordan played
really good this year and we should look at our
versatility and definitely use that in twenty twenty seven.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
Good man, thanks for your call mate. Look, I saw
a stat earlier. Will Jordan played every minute of the
year for the All Blacks apart from the ten minutes
when he was yellowcarded. He started and finished every Test match.
The only ten minutes he wasn't out there was that
yellow card. I can't recall who it was against, but
that was the only minutes he missed. And I flip

(24:30):
flopped a bit here and I think most people have
around his best position. I now like him on the wing.
I like Clark on the left wing. He was terrific
this morning. I thought Caleb Clark showed that he is
the number one left winger and probably the number one
winger in the All Blacks. I liked will Jordan there,
and I want to see more of Reuben Love and

(24:50):
fifteen Olie. Thanks for your call, mate, twenty nine away
from one calls us stacking up a spear line occasionally
pops up, So take your opportunity if you can. Oh
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty back with more in
a moment.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
The biggest season sports are on weekend in Sports with
Jason Pain and t J Junnerhomes New Zealand's most trusted
home builder News dogs'd be for.

Speaker 7 (25:13):
On the right hand side to fighty Williams getting the
lead drive all those three to mighty Williams.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
Yeah, good leg drive from the big feller for his
try this morning. Jase, Hi, mate, maybe before.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
I give you my issummation of the tour and this
morning's game, has he been a law change in respect?

Speaker 4 (25:33):
I thought you're gonna have to narrow it down there, Jason,
narrow it down. Has there been a law change where
the law changes?

Speaker 15 (25:39):
I always thought once a kambergan was over, you couldn't
go back.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
I know you can. Obviously that happened this morning right there. Yeah, yeah, no,
I haven't ever seen it. Yeah, it did seem to
take a bit of time for them to reach the
That was the duplistic if you knock on, wasn't it,
which wasn't picked up until quite away later. So clearly
you can so whether that's always been there or whether
it's a recent change. Jase, Clearly now you can. Even

(26:05):
if they can version goes over, you can still chop the.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Trail on foul pray.

Speaker 15 (26:10):
I would have thought yes, but not something like that.
But anyway, hey, listen. My take on this and I
was watching. I only joined the second half live. I've
watched the whole replay is why didn't they play like
that last week? Because I know every opposition comes different, right,
but they were faultless in their head piece and never
lost the line out. I don't think any scrum feed
when a miss. They only had to play somewhere with

(26:33):
that passion and intensity last week, and I don't think
England would have stayed with us. And that's my summation
of today. I was quite happy with it.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
My reaction to that, Jass is that yeah, no, no,
I was too, and I enjoyed the game. I guess
the reaction back on that point is that Wales are
not England. Wales aren't even Scotland. They allowed the All
Blacks the space and the time to do the things
they did this morning. England simply did not allow the
All Blacks to play that way last week.

Speaker 15 (27:06):
True know, look, look, look, yeah, and I was expecting
that rebound, so look that that's probably fair. But look,
you know we said a few weeks ago, I remember
you're coming on saying. Someone said, do you think we'll
see sever Reese again? Well, he's a bit of a
conundrum because he's he produced a little bit of spark there.
Did you get two tries? I think you did. Yep.
So no, Look I think look, if you're really wanted

(27:28):
to rape the tour, it was up. They'll be annoyed
about last week just because I think they let themselves down.
I don't think England's that great. To be fair, we
weren't great, but they're not that. I don't think they're great,
But you're right, the big litmus tests will come next
year again. South Africa.

Speaker 16 (27:43):
They just look, they just look beyond approach, you.

Speaker 15 (27:47):
Know, they just they just seem to be able to
weather storms. They they they've got confidence right across one
to twenty two. If we if you say, if we
get out of that somewhere, you know, on par next year,
I'll be real happy about World Cup aspirations because you know,
we're doing it different this time. We're not taking in
World Cup year. We're where sort of you know, we're

(28:08):
going to do a little bit differently. We're going to
build towards it. So we've got enough UFA, we've got
enough experience. We just need to get rid of the
silly little ten minutes where we just go missing in action.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
And then right's good, Thanks Jase, good summation from you.
As always. You're right about peaking. We used to be
very good at peaking between World Cups, didn't we. I
remember how good we were in nineteen ninety seven, for example,
absolutely brilliant that year. Nineteen eighty nine, we were terrific.
We were pretty good in two thousand and five when
the lines came down here even twenty seventeen, if we

(28:42):
use a more recent example, Yeah, so you're right, there's
no point playing our best rugby now. I think what
we all want to see though, is that the Green
shoots the building blocks for what twenty twenty seven will bring.

Speaker 17 (28:54):
Blair Hi, Yeah, goodbye, Panie. I want to be the
exact opposite of all your happy campers. I want to
be a little bit of a Debbie down here. I
didn't think that was a great performance, to be honest,
I think you know, I heard Jason Holland say they we're.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Happy with the high ball.

Speaker 17 (29:14):
Well, we still filled almost half the high ball that
was put up. You know, it's we've still got problems
in defense. We missed seventeen eighteen percent of our tackles.
We can sended four tries to Wales. You know, it's
hard to say. You know, there was always a risk

(29:36):
of this game we're going to have a big blow
and everyone was going to go, yep, we've fixed it,
We've done it. But the same things were still wrong
the first ten minutes after the after half time. I
don't know what Scott Robinson tells them at halftime, but
you know, the Welsh came storming back into the game.

Speaker 13 (29:57):
We were flat, we were awful again.

Speaker 17 (30:00):
As I say, we're missing the high ball we can
set it four tries to the twelfth best team in
the world. I'm not I'm afraid I can't get excited
about what we saw today.

Speaker 18 (30:12):
Please it's a line.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
Yeah yeah, sorry, blow, I'll let you continue. It's a
very fair assessment. Look, and I don't think the All
Blacks are getting carried away with it either. I think
they're happy they won the Test match. I think there
are some tough conversations to come, and I think there
are some some big improvements still needed. Absolutely. Look, I
think you make you make salient points. But I don't
think that the All Blacks are getting carried away with this.
They're not saying everything's fine in the world now because

(30:36):
we've beaten the twelfth best team in the world, even
even in conceding four tries against them. They'll be satisfied.
But that'll be about it. I would say, Yeah, Well.

Speaker 17 (30:48):
I think overall, as I said to you last week,
I haven't changed my mind. I think I give the
whole year of five to ten for the All Blacks,
and I give the whole year of.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Four ten for the coaching.

Speaker 17 (30:58):
I just think, you know, even the Welsh at times
the back line was excellent to be honest, but you know,
just watching the high ball go up and just not
feeling confident that we were going to take it. That's
that's going to be a major problem. The line out
has probably been the shining star this year. I think

(31:20):
the scrums saw major problems. I'm not convinced about Jason
Ryan as a scrum coach, to be honest, and I'm
an old prop. The scrum still doesn't look great to me,
but the lineout's been fantastic. Yeah, I'm happy we beat Wales,
but that's about as far as it goes for me.

Speaker 4 (31:43):
Blair, thank you for calling mate. Look, as you know,
we welcome all opinion here and it's good to have,
you know, to have a I was going to say
a handbreak. That's probably the wrong phrase. I think it's
just realism from you, certainly, but your experience in forward packs.
I'll take on board what you say. You're right about
the lineout. I think they won fifteen from fifteen this morning.
I think I don't think we had we won all

(32:04):
our scrums, not that there were that many this morning.
End you think the first scrum was about half an
hour in. But thanks plead. Look, you know, Debbie down
is the wrong phrase. I think it's just realism and
that's cool. That's totally cool. Please call back any time, mate, Renee.

Speaker 19 (32:17):
Hello, yeah, morning afternoon, finey, how are you?

Speaker 4 (32:21):
I'm very well? Thank you good?

Speaker 14 (32:25):
Yeah. I just want to touch on the game.

Speaker 19 (32:27):
I only saw the second half, but a little bit
first ten minutes, first ten minutes, wasn't that great for me?
The Irish Welsh managed to get back into the game
a bit.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
You picked the wrong ten minutes to what you picked
the wrong ten minutes to watch. It's been the achilles
hell all year as that little period after halftime. It
didn't get better after that, though, thankfully.

Speaker 19 (32:49):
Did a little bit disappointed on the ref. I forgot
her name again, someone Holland.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
Was it Holly Davidson?

Speaker 19 (32:55):
Is her name Holly Davidson? When she ruled that try
and then the TMO came in saying it was held up,
and she had said that it was still down from
what she saw, and then she let themo. Overall, I
thought that was a little bit disappointing. She was adamant
that the try was scored, so I thought the TMO
had a bit of influence on that one. Also, I'm

(33:15):
not a fan of the chopping and changing the players.
I'm the old school, so I like to see players
set in their position and they stand that position. I'm
a fan of Lester at center. I think I think
if he had a bit more time than there, he
would cement that that position pretty well. Caleb Park on
the wing, and I'd actually like the severy Reese played
his heart out when he came on that field, and

(33:35):
I think that probably would have made a difference against
England as well with those players on there. And I'd
prefer Will Jordan that fallback not wing. So if you
had had those players on and keep them in those positions,
I think you'd probably find the game would probably be
a little bit more different as they keep going on
good points.

Speaker 4 (33:51):
Well made Renee the Yeah, I was actually quite pleased
for sever Reese because you know, I think most people,
myself included, probably thought he'd done his dashing the All
Blacks and who knows, that might be his last test.
But you're right, he came on. That leg ankle breaker
that he that he used to score one of his
tries was terrific. He still obviously got a bit of
zip and sing about him. I'll be intrigued to see

(34:14):
what his use is and in All Blacks teams moving forward.
As I say, it's possible he might not be involved
next year. Then again, on the evidents of this morning,
the spark he provided might be a fairly compelling proposition
for Scott Robertson next year and beyond. Thanks for calling, Rene,
It's sixteen to one back with more in just a moment.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Don't get caught offside. Eight Weekends for Us with Jason
Paine and GJ. Guvnerholmes, New Zealand's most trusted home builder
News Talks NV.

Speaker 7 (34:44):
Now love love for one of left pens like Hala Park,
He'll hate the ball Hip Wink Corner Haylor Park the
first of the afternoon for the All Blacks.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
Twelve forty seven Talking All Blacks, Gregor Paul after one
taking your calls though until then, Hello Mark.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Hey Piney, Yeah, I need to get it off my chest.
Cads are ruining international rugby. I'll just leave it at that,
just getting to the point of stupidity, textually ruining, ruin,
ruining the viewers enjoyment of the game, really, because it
just dictates the whole play, the whole game, everything and
they and they're being applied just so arbitrarily that it's
just as I said, it's just ruining the game.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
You see how many they were in that is Did
you see how many that were in that island? South
Africa games.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
Down to twelve At one point I thought I thought
the Irish were really courageous. I think over the last
few years they've probably been one of the most courageous
teams in international rugby. The Irish they just give it
everything and leave it all out there. Really the players
great to see Summersonny having a good game. He's one
of my favorite players. I think the All Blacks without

(35:50):
Jordi Barrett are really not as good defensively. I think
the last couple of weeks have shown there. I think
he's such a good player, and I think that midfield
combination really needs to be worked on. I don't think,
to me, Proctors, if you've got him at center, I
don't think you're going to when the Rugby World Cup
was in there. To be honest, I think they need
to make a decision to get that combination right. I

(36:15):
think Lesifi and Luku's got to be almost on the field.
He's made such an impact coming back and he really
gets over the game line. He's got great offloads. But
like Sonny bill in, Yeah, he makes quite a difference.
But I guess for this All Black season, I think
it's been disappointing to me. I think the promise of
Razer coming in that we were going to have something

(36:37):
special and I just don't think he's the best coach
in the world at the moment. I don't think there's
been too much innovation. I don't think we've actually moved on,
and I probably don't think this team's play as well
as you know his team in the last World Cup final,
to be honest, I mean where we pretty much work
down to fourteen players and still had a chance to

(36:58):
win it if the kicks have gone over. I just
don't think we're at that level. So I think in
a way we've gone backwards a season.

Speaker 4 (37:05):
What do you think just on the Fozzy team. It
did take four years for the Fozzy team to reach
that point, so that is the difference. But on your
point of whether they're a better team now than they
were when Razor took over, I don't think they are.

Speaker 5 (37:20):
No.

Speaker 4 (37:21):
I can't see enough improvement and even probably enough promise
of that improvement to say unequivocally that they are better
than they were when he took over. He's had the
two years now. I think people gave him last year
and said, Okay, what first year, Let's see what you
do in your second year. But having reached the halfway
point of the World Cup cycle, I think there are

(37:41):
still major doubts about the direction of the team.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
I just think that I can't understand why Holland and
McDonald had left the squad. Can you do you know?
Do you know the answers for that?

Speaker 12 (37:54):
I don't say or not?

Speaker 6 (37:55):
No.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
I it's a bit like the Nolan Tora incident. You know,
you've got these players who don't seem like they want
to leave, leaving the coaching squad for whatever reason.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
Yeah, this way Mark coaching the All Blacks or being
in the All Blacks coaching group is widely acknowledged as
the pinnacle of coaching as a New Zealander, and it
feels to me and I don't know anything about what
has happened here with Leam McDonald last year and with
Jason Holland this year, but you don't leave the All

(38:26):
Blacks if everything's going well thanks for your call, Mark,
David high Ok Jason.

Speaker 20 (38:35):
Just regarding the All Blacks season, I mean, on paper,
ten wins out of thirteen games is pretty good. But
for me, the most disappointing thing, which no one has
talked about, was the hiding they got them Wellington, which
is the biggest loss that the All Blacks have ever had,

(38:58):
and you know it's sort of even before in the
past they have never of that loss. I've never lost
by a big margin like that. So for me, that
was the most disappointing part of the season.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
Funnily enough, the bigger disappointment for me. So you're right
about that South African test, David, and goodness me, the
flowing the phones blew up after that. I remember it,
but it was I almost treated it as a bit
of an outlier, as a bit of an absolute anomally.
The bigger disappointment for me was the lost to England
last week and the All Blacks being unable to find
a way to to to win the game effectively. It

(39:36):
was a bigger disappointment last week to me was I
was guthered after Wellington. Don't get me wrong, but I
think if the All Blacks look back, they will they
will have you know, greater frustration over last weekend than
the game in Wellington in September.

Speaker 6 (39:54):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 21 (39:55):
Interestingly, before the tour of the tab had them as
the favorite out of the four games, so I thought
that they would only win three, so they must have
and they still had a favorites marginally against the England.
But they said they must have thought they were going
to lose to Ireland, if they were going to lose
it all. But yeah, I actually suspected that England were

(40:15):
going to win that game. You know, they were going
to be a bit tired and pretty much focused on
you know, China win all.

Speaker 4 (40:25):
Yeah, good on your David, thanks for your call. And
I think we need to give England some credit. Someone
said before they're a pretty ordinary side. That's ten wins
in a row. Now they've got Argentina tomorrow morning. I'd
imagine I'd win that, although Argentina as win a good
sight they beat us. But yeah, England are an improving side.
I think if you if you compare where England are
compared to where they were two years ago when they

(40:46):
came down here for Raz's first couple of tests in charge,
and where they are now I think they have improved,
have they All Blacks? I don't think so.

Speaker 5 (40:53):
Seven to one.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
When it's down to the line, you made a call
eight Weekend Sport with Jason Hyne, News Talk ZIMB.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
Four to one after one. Gregor Paul, who watched on
from Cardiff this morning alongside Elliott Smith on our news Talks,
he'd be commentary. Really interesting article. In fact, it was
an opinion piece that Gregor wrote during the week about
the nuclear option available to David Kirk's chair of the
board with regards to the All Blacks coaching team. The

(41:23):
nuclear option being make a change at the very top.

Speaker 6 (41:27):
More on that.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
After one's the only place to discuss the biggest fours
issues on and after fields, it's all on Winter and Sport.

Speaker 11 (41:36):
With Jason Vane on your home of sports news Talks.

Speaker 4 (41:42):
For one o seven. I do want to talk about
the Ashes, the two day test to kick off the Ashes.
We were supposed to have twenty five days of Test
cricket to look forward to. It's already down to twenty
two and that feels optimistic now. Adam Peacock, he normally
chats to us on a Saturday, was in Perth yesterday
he's already back in Sydney. It's done, the test is over.

(42:05):
He's going to add to us in our so be
keen to hear your thoughts too. Have we just forgotten,
Let's say we have guys just forgotten how to play
test cricket. Are they just not interested in doing that anymore?
Occupying the crease, building partnerships, playing each ball on its merits,
that sort of thing. Clearly not your thoughts on the ashes.
After two, we're going to do Formula one as well,

(42:27):
with Liam Wiwson's sixth on the grid for the Las
Vegas Grand Prix, which goes at five o'clock this afternoon.
Rugby though our focus and continues to be a couple
on texts before we move. Wall of Satiti was good,
says Andy, but take time to watch the work of
Simon Parker at the breakdown, massive impact cleaning out. The
likes of Satiti can only do what they do because
others are doing their job, Thanks Andy, And says Jason,

(42:49):
no one's mentioned Damien's perfect score with the Boots. Yeah,
eight from eight and some difficult ones too, and a
number of those tries were scored in white areas, weren't
they so yep, Damien Mackenzie without error off the kicking
Tea finally says Pete. Could the reason our All Blacks
have not progressed as much as we would like be

(43:10):
due to the strength of Super Rugby in the past
couple of years. Does it mean the coaches are not
getting the highest standard of player pool to select from anymore?
No one's talked about this. Thank you, Peter. I'm glad
you have brought it up. Jason, I feel Finlay Christie
should be the number two half back. He's much calmer,
he's gutsy, he knows his position. More importantly, he doesn't

(43:31):
often kick the ball away from a scrum or general play. Yeah,
as I said an hour or so ago, I think
Finlay Christie's been unfairly maligned. You know, he didn't pick
himself for the All Blacks. I think a lot of
people thought that there were better options out there when
Finlay Christie was selected. I think he got a lot
of a lot of blowback when Ian Foster selected him.

(43:52):
He had a cam Roy guard and the big matches
at the twenty twenty three Rugby World Cup. But he'll
never let you down. He's never going to be came
Roy Guard. He's never going to be Aaron Smith. All
he can be is the best version of himself. And
as I say, I remember this so clearly the South
African Test in Wellington this year when they put forty

(44:13):
on us and there were guys out there who I
don't know whether they gave up, but they certainly weren't
giving their roll. At the end fin Lake Christie was.
He was still throwing himself around at forty points down
late in that Test match. Don't think he'll play for
the All Blacks again. It feels as though he's on
the move, but I think he's got a legacy which

(44:35):
is fairly secure.

Speaker 7 (44:37):
Down the blind again, Love swiping through Love, he lovely run,
Ruben Love, help to the.

Speaker 4 (44:44):
Right and right hand up right, Yeah, Rubin Love with
a try on just the second start he's had the
opportunity to take in an All Blacks jersey. He tweaked
an ankle, unfortunately off for the last twenty five minutes,
but Rubin Love another to perhaps enhance his reputation. This morning,
let's get you back to Cardiff and bring a New
Zealand Herald Rugby writer Gregor Paul Gregor, I do want

(45:05):
to zoom out on the entire year in a moment.
But what did you make of the all black saty
minutes in Carliff this morning.

Speaker 22 (45:12):
Well, they did what they needed to do, which was
to put a fairly troubled, inexperienced, underpowered Welsh team away.
It took them a wee bit longer than I think
they ideally would have liked. I think they thought they
would break them after halftime and they didn't. It took
about sixty five minutes before they really had them dead

(45:33):
and buried. They got some good performances out of a
few of the guys that haven't played any rugby. I
thought Leonard Brown and Yowanni formed quite a good midfield combination.
Rico Sorry Rubin Love played pretty well at fullback, a
young player that people are quite excited about. And the
forward pack did what it's been doing all year and

(45:54):
looked pretty solid at set piece. So they ticked a
lot of boxers and they probably made themselves feel better
about where they are in the world right now.

Speaker 4 (46:04):
Does it change the way weish view twenty twenty five?

Speaker 5 (46:09):
No, absolutely not.

Speaker 22 (46:10):
Be a real danger to extrapolate, you know, a game
under a roof with a dry ball against the world's.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
Twelfth best team.

Speaker 22 (46:20):
And really, you know, this was a team that's won
one game at home in the last two years and
it was against Japan last week and that was when
the last minute kick.

Speaker 5 (46:28):
You know, Wales are troubled and you can't really look at.

Speaker 22 (46:32):
A game where that where space and time are commodities
that are freely given, because Wales don't have the ability
to defend or set piece the way that you know
the top tier teams can. And you look at all
that and go, well, look it was it was kind
of a fun exercise to finish the year. But the
most taling point would be they weren't playing for a

(46:53):
Grand Swan. They all blacks, so there you go. That
would be where you put the season into perspective and go, yep,
that's true because they were well beaten by England and
they didn't really put any other trophies in the cabin.
I mean, you can talk about the bledder Cell cut,
but yes they retained that. But to be honest, Australia
are despite some of the performances which were quite good,

(47:16):
remain a reasonably weak team as well. And when it
really mattered, this new Zealand team didn't win the games
that needed to. It didn't play well enough for long enough,
and it hasn't really given us a confidence or optimism
that that will change next year.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
So when those in charge of these things are conducting
their review, where should they be placing the harshest spotlight.

Speaker 5 (47:42):
Then they've got to look at their attack game.

Speaker 22 (47:45):
Yeah, because New Zealand for years decades, tend to lead
the world in that department. They tend to be the
most innovative. They tend to be able to use the
ball better than most teams. They mix up their game
management well, kick run passing, that's where they've been world leaders.
The skill sets are tighter and better than most other teams,
and they deliver under pressure, which has been another factor.

Speaker 5 (48:08):
All of these things appear to be on the on
the descent.

Speaker 22 (48:13):
I would argue that so Africa and I looked at
the world's best attacking team, followed by Argentina, followed by England,
followed by France, maybe not in that order, So that
would be an area I think they need to look
at their back line full stop. They haven't found a
midfield combination that that feels like the right one. They're
back three again. Haven't found a combination there. They're working

(48:35):
under the high ball, and mainally it was actually not
bad tonight. They took a few good, good, clean high
catchers and they had they had a big bearing on
how the game played out. But that's an area under scrutiny.
Their general kicking game under scrutiny, and even the defense
because bizarrely that's actually the second excuse me, highest points
total Whales have ever scored against the All Blacks tonight.

Speaker 5 (48:58):
So it was an open game.

Speaker 22 (48:59):
It was a loose game, but you'd still be when
they look at the defense, which again has been a
little bit erratic all year.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
What I read will interest your pace during the week
talking about David Kirk's nuclear option and that involved a
change at the very top of the coaching structure. Can
you see a scenario under which that happens.

Speaker 5 (49:22):
Yep, Yeah, I think you've got to be realistic about
these things and go.

Speaker 22 (49:25):
It'd be a tough decision, that would It would be
unprecedented for New Zealand to do that, but right at
the halfway point of a World Cup cycle, and you
have to if you want to be the best team
in the world. You've created this ambition to be number one,
to build a billion dollar brand on the back of
all blacks.

Speaker 5 (49:46):
You want to win the World Cup in twenty seven.

Speaker 22 (49:48):
Right now, there's a big gap between New Zealand and
South Africa, and probably a gap between New Zealand and
England and France, and possibly there I said there's one,
there's one building between New Zealand and Argentina possibly at
the moment as well. So you look at all that
and go okay, so we're in fourth or fifth place
realistically despite the world ranking senior And second, what is

(50:13):
the level of confidence that this current group can change
the trajectory of this team?

Speaker 5 (50:19):
Can they catch South Africa?

Speaker 22 (50:21):
Can they build a team, a game plan, a consistency
that is going to turn New Zealand into world champions
in two years time. If you don't believe that, and
if you think that you know that that's unlikely to happen,
then you have to seriously consider making the change now
to maximize the time that whoever you choose to make,

(50:41):
whoever comes into as a change, that you're giving them
the time that they will need to prepare a team
and you know, rebuild it and do whatever they need
to do to take it to the World Cup. So look,
it's cutthroat and people need to be serious about that
and they need to be mature about that and go
this is the gig. That's what high performance looks like.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
Can you see them doing it? Would they have the courage,
they have the bottle to do it, to change all
blacks coaches midway through a World Cup cycle?

Speaker 5 (51:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 22 (51:13):
I think that the danger of that is it would
be could be overblown and say, well, you know, only
two years two years a long time in international rugby.
Plenty of other teams have done it in World Cup
cycles and had good results. Sometimes it hasn't delivered, sometimes
it has, so there's no real way of knowing. I
think the issue would be not some I mean you'd

(51:35):
have to challenge at the risk of changing against the
risk of not changing.

Speaker 5 (51:39):
That's definitely a question you need to ask.

Speaker 22 (51:42):
But circularly you would need to ask if you're going
to make that change, you'd be doing sort of time
where you'd have to control the process of who you
would who would come in to replace, And that would
be the question I think people would have is would
would New Zealand Rugby be certain or confident right now
given contracting situations and personnel availability, that if they were

(52:06):
to make a change, would they necessarily be able to
upgrade what they.

Speaker 5 (52:11):
Currently have now. Clearly, Jamie Jobsph has been parked as the.

Speaker 22 (52:15):
Guy in waiting, having taken control of the All Black
fifteen last week, and clearly he's coached at the international
level with Japan his experience, so he would be the guy.
But the question then would be would he be able
to gather up enough people around him to give the
confidence that he's going to put together.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
You know, a team, And he might be able to
keep some of the existing guys.

Speaker 22 (52:40):
He might think, yeah, look, I would probably come in
and keep one or two of them, But that would
be it, because it really is about a team. It's
not about one guy. It's about can you can you
put all the pieces in place? And that would be
the question. So, and I don't know necessarily because I
don't know availability, I don't know how easy it would
be to extricate people from around the world, you know,

(53:01):
if this job suddenly became available. So these would big
questions that you'd have to, you know, weigh up than
white Coat.

Speaker 4 (53:07):
Absolutely, and the obvious one is you point out to
Tony Brown, but contracted with the spring Box for what
that's worth through until twenty twenty seven. Plenty of food
for thought. Gregor, thank you so much for joining us.
Might have loved your coverage of this too. I look
forward to seeing you back home.

Speaker 5 (53:20):
My pleasure.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
That's Gregor Paul from the end, said Herald read them
at ends at Herald dot co dot nz some very
interesting thoughts there. Would they do it? Would they have
the courage to do it? As Gregor says, he lays
it out in fairly logical terms. If you believe that
there is a better option in the next two years

(53:43):
to win us the Rugby World Cup, then you have
to consider it. Look, I think it would be a
massive call, a massive call to change. If you look
back to the last World Cup cycle, Ian Foster, depending
on who you believe, was all set to be relieved
of his duties and Raiser was supposed to come in

(54:04):
and take over. But as it happened, that didn't happen
and it proved to be the right decision. Ian Foster
improved that team to the point where they were within
a point of winning the Rugby World Cup. I just
think it would be a massive call, especially as Gregor
also says, without really knowing at least you had cast

(54:26):
iron guarantees that Jamie Joseph, and it would be Jamie Joseph,
Let's be honest, he'd be the one to take over.
You'd have to have cast iron guarantees that he could
get Tony Brown out of South Africa for starters, because
Jamie Joseph Tony Brown combo is a pretty compelling proposition.
But Tony Brown's contracted to South Africa till twenty twenty seven,

(54:47):
and while he's on record even on this show, was
saying that he would like to coach the All Blacks
one day. Why would he live South Africa Now they're flying.
I feel as though he had seen his contract out,
wouldn't he and then see what happens after that. Scott
Robertson was asked about his coaching future as part of
this postmatch media conference. Today. They're taking me in a

(55:09):
four year contract in belief and this group has got
some great young players coming through.

Speaker 9 (55:14):
Is going to be some learning along the way, you like,
I'm excited. Got some great becking from David and the board,
a good crew behind us.

Speaker 5 (55:21):
You know, I'm excited.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
Thinks there you go are eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
Let's pick up on that or anything you saw this morning.
We do have for the first time this afternoon a
spare line if you want to jump aboard our eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty Ian. Hello, Hi, Jase got
Ian Good.

Speaker 23 (55:38):
Thanks.

Speaker 24 (55:40):
What a wonderful game. I mean the your blocks were
always going to win this match. But I would like
to talk about the referee, Holly Davidson. Yes, in my
personal opinion, I thought you had a pretty good game.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
You sound surprised to you, and I thought you had
a good game too.

Speaker 24 (55:57):
I'm not surprised at all. I thought you had a
magnificent game, Achel, after what we've seen previously over the
over the last ten or so tests.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 24 (56:10):
I mean, the result was always going to be what
it was. But you know, I thought she controlled the
game very well.

Speaker 4 (56:17):
I agree with you. I and I thought she gave
clear instructions. As I said last hour, I think she
was perhaps a little bit swayed by the TMO a
couple of times. There was a suggestion perhaps that that
she should have stuck with her on field decision when
Will Jordan looked to have got the ball down but
then second guested a little bit, and I think probably
came to the right decision actually because I didn't see

(56:38):
a clear grounding that ball either. But look, I think
she can look back and when she gets assessed by
her bosses, I think the one they'll give her a
pass marker, a very solid pass mark.

Speaker 25 (56:48):
Absolutely, I would give it as an Holly Davidson, I
would give her if it was if I was on
that board, which I'm not, of course, I would give
her a ninety five percent past mate.

Speaker 13 (57:02):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
I think she was good and hopefully she gets gets
more test matches the whole. You know, I think we
should judge as a referee just as we judge any referee. Obviously,
it was an historic occasion, first time a female referee
has controlled an All Blacks Test match. Let's hope that
it's not a talking point in years to come and
that we're just talking about referees. I thought she was

(57:24):
was good. She had an ability I thought too, of
diffusing potentially not explosive situations, but she was just very
you know, just just able to diffuse things. And maybe
that is part of being maybe you know, being a
female is a superpower in that situation. But I yep.

(57:45):
I think if you're ranked all of the referees who
have controlled All Blacks test matches this year, she would
be up near the top. And there have been plenty
of occasions this year on the show when we've been
talking about referees in a different way. Thanks a good
to hear from you, mate, Hello, Pete.

Speaker 10 (57:59):
I think goodness, I'm as to listen to everyone today
that you've had a really good rugby analyst.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
It's Gregor.

Speaker 10 (58:05):
I can't think of his full name, a Scottish accent.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
Yeah, Grigapool, Yeah, Grigapool.

Speaker 10 (58:11):
Thank goodness, Thank goodness that he is identified something that
I believe is blatantly obvious.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
Now, this is a.

Speaker 10 (58:20):
Dysfunctional All Black side. The third quarter has been a
Knight in disaster in dysfunction. That's a coaching through coaching folk.
Now I believe Jason Holland I mean more importantly because
I'm a big fan of his and I know that
he's highly regarded and he was a great intelligent fallback

(58:43):
and that's Leon McDonald. Now he fell out with Razor
on philosophy and strategy of the back line. Now I
don't want to get into that. So we've had two
guys Jason Holland I don't put in the same class
or category as Leon McDonald, but he's up there. Now
we've got another guy there that I put down just
just my little bit of intuition here, Steve. He ain't

(59:07):
doing the job. He has to go immediately now when
you're a professional coach, but Razor is and he is
a manager raiser I identify is no different than a
number one ranked soccer team. And England are not coaches,
are managers. Ferguson was a manager who managed men. So

(59:30):
my thing is this, This is what I'm saying right now,
this is a big coaching problem. I think we've got
tremendoustic book players. We don't have the world class that
we had. You can't replace Richie McCall, Brodier Retallic, Sam
Whitelocke and Jeraine Coroner overnight, but we've got some real
good ones there. You know, the guys have meeting him today,
So Titi, I think brilliant. I think we've got the

(59:52):
best back in the world. And Jordan McDonald, sorry McKenzie
is great.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
But got to go, mate.

Speaker 10 (59:59):
I'm telling him now, this is my prediction. If we
hang on will would we not get the boot. And
he has to have a clean sweep. And David Kirk
has to tell every single one of those guys this
is a format and these are the coaches we believe
because there's got to be a big effort from the

(01:00:20):
guys on the board to get the right coaching stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
That's that's my take.

Speaker 4 (01:00:25):
No, it's a good take, Pete. Thank you for voicing
it here in such eloquent fashion. Yes, Scott Henson's it's
been widely reported that he does a lot of the
technical side of things that Razor is more, as you
just pointed out there, Pete, more of a kind of
English football manager type of coacher. And oversee it if
you like a man manager who doesn't do a lot

(01:00:47):
of the technical stuff on the grass from week to week,
leaves that to his experts. Now, there's been talk that
Jason Holland won't actually be replaced in the coaching team,
that they will spread the responsibilities among the rest of them.
And look, I've got a lot of time for Gregor.
I think he's a terrific analyst of the game and
reading his pieces, he surmises that Scott Robertson might have

(01:01:12):
to go back to that actual coaching to do more
of the on the grass stuff, to pick up an
area of expertise, just as Ian Foster did before him
and others before him. I think you can. You don't
need a massive team of coaches. Yes, you have your specialists,

(01:01:33):
of course you do. One man can't do it all
by himself. But I wonder whether there might have to
be just a slight change of approach in terms of
the way that responsibilities are cut and sliced within that
coaching group. Regardless, there will be a review. There will

(01:01:54):
have to be. I mean, even if they'd won every
test this year, there still would be. Every responsible organization
has an annual review of some sort to work out
what's going well and what could be improved. Whether New
Zealand Rugby's board take the nuclear option and decide, and

(01:02:15):
they're quite within their rights to do this, if they
decide that there is a better option over the next
two years in order for the All Blacks to win
the World Cup, then they have to take that decision
if they firmly believe that it is the right one.
They're quite within their rights to do it. My gut

(01:02:36):
feel my opinion is that they won't, but they are
within their rights to at least examine it, and they
would be in dereliction of duty if they don't. One
twenty eight back with more calls after this The.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Voice of Sport on Your Home of Sport Weekend Sport
with Jason Vyne and GJ. Gunner Homes New Zealand's most
trusted home builder News talksvy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:02):
Nine to one, twenty nine to two. That is twenty
nine to two. James mcconeiy before too. We'll focus on
the Ashes after two, but let's continue the All Blacks chat.
Some great calls coming through.

Speaker 24 (01:03:12):
Hi Dan, Gooday, Pliny, How are.

Speaker 4 (01:03:15):
You Dan, I'm good, I'm very good.

Speaker 24 (01:03:17):
Thank you, Piney.

Speaker 18 (01:03:19):
My question is a twofold question really, as the Super
Rugby doing the All Blacks any favors in regard to
style of play and discipline issues when it comes to

(01:03:43):
international rugby.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
Okay, that's the first part of the twofold question. I'll
answer that. In my view, it's I don't think Super
Rugby is helping the All Blacks win international matches. No,
I think Super Rugby is a wonderful product and I
love watching it, but it is very different from what
the All Blacks face from the likes of South Africa, England, Ireland,

(01:04:07):
France and others. I don't know whether it has an
impact on discipline necessarily, Dan, but certainly I don't think
Super rugby is the best preparation for international rugby.

Speaker 18 (01:04:21):
And I guess my second question is we always seem
to get one or two good players from Super Rugby.
But it comes back to my first question. Are those
players that picked from Super Rugby sort of aligned with

(01:04:45):
international rugby or have they still got Super Rugby structure
in their heads and basing their international careers on that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
Well, again, I think they can. They can only play
inside the team structure that is handed to them, Dan,
and I guess within a Super Rugby framework, they are
handed that structure and once they get to the All Blacks, look,
it's not as though it's a million miles away. Maybe
it should be, because as I said before, it's not
the same, you know, playing for the Hurricanes against the

(01:05:18):
Chiefs one week and then playing for the All Blacks
against South Africa the next. I mean the departure of
the South African teams from Super Rugby is obviously had
an impact, but it's incumbent upon the players when they're
brought into the All Blacks and the coaching staff once
they're there, to mold them into a cohesive unit. International
teams in every sport are drawn from clubs and they

(01:05:42):
play differently for their club than they do for their country.
But there are some very efficient countries, South Africa being
one of them. Ireland, although they're in a bit of
a holding pattern, it feels at the moment another one
England is starting to up their trajectory if you like.
But yeah, look it's a very salient point. We love

(01:06:06):
Super Rugby and the razzle dazzle of it, and I
am looking forward to seeing how it goes next year.
I always look forward to Super Rugby. Is it the
best preparation for the All Blacks to win Test matches?
I think it helps, But I don't think you would
say that that you know, Super Rugby is the best
replication of international rugby, because it simply isn't. Thanks for

(01:06:30):
your called in as shiah Hi Jason.

Speaker 16 (01:06:37):
You said you listen to what you just had an
interview with Gregor Paul and you listen to his commentary
with Elliot.

Speaker 6 (01:06:43):
Is that right?

Speaker 5 (01:06:45):
Yes?

Speaker 24 (01:06:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:06:47):
Last week he made a very relevant point about the
third quarter ways of the All Blacks. He mentioned the
points differential for the Abs and the third quarter for
test matches this year. Did you hear that figure?

Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
Well, I'm almost certain it was a negative figure.

Speaker 21 (01:07:04):
It was more on a sixty two minus sixty two.

Speaker 16 (01:07:10):
You've referenced all back attacking strategies and the departure of
a couple of attack coaches. I McDonald and of recently
is at Holland he had interviewed. I suggest that the
all backs attacking strategy is pretty much the Crusaders and
drag kick the ball to the opposition. I hope that

(01:07:32):
they knock the ball on or lose the ball and
the tackle, and you capitalize on their mistakes. Unfortunately, international
teams don't make mistakes.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
It's an interesting take. Yeah, it's an interesting take. Cash.
Is that how you assess the Crusaders attacking strategy? Kick
the ball to the other team and then pressure them
into mistakes?

Speaker 16 (01:07:57):
Yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Yep. And the fact that as far as.

Speaker 16 (01:08:07):
Robertson's tenures concerned, well, the stupidity was giving him a
four year contract you pay. The postmatch interview with him
and he referenced that point. He has a four year
contract now if they're going to sack and they'll have
to pay him, payout his remaining two years as well
as paying two years to another head coach. So I

(01:08:29):
don't think the board can afford to do anything like that.
So I think financially they simply won't get rid of him.
They wouldn't even consider it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:36):
Do you think they'll asked that if they had grave
concerns about the direction of the team, that they wouldn't
they wouldn't make the change, that they would let a
financial factor influence that decision.

Speaker 16 (01:08:53):
Well, yeah, you know, sorry, b S walks money talks.
They can happen pulp as much as they like, but
if they're going to get rid of him, they have
to pay him out as well as paying presumably Joseph
for a two year tenure. But all of this could
have been avoided if Mark Robinson hadn't jumped up and down, Yes,

(01:09:16):
three bags falls and give him a four year contract.
Foston never got that. He got two years, a two
plus two deal. Two years and then we'll have a
review of you and see how you've gone. Well, that
was what should have happened with Robertson, but courtesy of
Mark Robinson, the stale turd in New Zealand Rugby administration,

(01:09:37):
he's left David kirk In in a very invidious position.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
Ash, thank you for your call. I appreciate it, Marty, Hi, Hi, Jason,
how are you doing good? Thank you money good.

Speaker 26 (01:09:51):
The referee, I thought she refereed well, I'm probably exceptionally well.
However that's within the framework that she's got to referee
with him. So what I don't particularly like is the
way the game as being refereed. That decision that was
turned over, for example, turned over after the conversion. It

(01:10:15):
really just doesn't do it for me, and I don't
think it does the game justice. It stops it from flowing.
It almost feels like in the Northern Hemisphere particularly, the
TMO is just trolling through to see what little thing
he can find that's not right. And I just noticed
the referee like they stand up to the players who

(01:10:37):
are supposed to be experienced and tell them now get
the ball out, now, don't come forward, you'll be outside.
I'm a weave at old school, but I can recall
a New Zealand referee that probably some of the listeners
will be able to remember was a guy from Mastenden
called Bob Francis. And one of the things I really
liked about Bob was how he controlled a game. He

(01:11:00):
didn't impose himself. Back in those days we had the
touch judges putting the flags up and he was quite
happy to override them. Have he felt that what he
saw was where it was at. So I think she
did a good job considering the framework. She's got to
work with them. They're probably sitting up there saying, well,
you've done. That's really great, But for me it's just

(01:11:21):
a bit too officious.

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
Good call, Marty, I look, you want to get an
argument from me. You know, when a conversion's gone over
and then the whole thing's chalked off, you have to
wonder on a knock on as you say, I loved
your description. Yeah, I wonder whether the TMO some of
them are just trolling that footage looking for an opportunity
to get involved.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
I'm a bit like you, a bit old school. Bob Francis,
great man, former mayor of Masterden. Too terrific chap at
the town to men him a couple of times. Really
good man, Hey Marty, thanks mate, I appreciate it. Twenty
to two, let's take a break, come back James mcconey
in this regular Sunday slot.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
The Big Issues on and after Field Call eight hundred
eighty ten eighty Weekend Sport with Jason.

Speaker 11 (01:12:03):
Fine and GJ. Gunner homes Land's most trusted O Milder
News Talk.

Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
Baby seventeen to two Sunday Afternoon means James mccony.

Speaker 5 (01:12:13):
Hello mate, Hello, Poney, how are you.

Speaker 4 (01:12:17):
I'm good. I'm good. We've had some very invigorating All
Blacks discussion in the last hour and three quarters. I've
enjoyed it. What did you make of this morning? What
do you make of twenty twenty five? What a wide
ranging question that is?

Speaker 6 (01:12:29):
Well this morning. I'm happy to answer it, Poney.

Speaker 5 (01:12:32):
This morning.

Speaker 6 (01:12:33):
All Blacks versus Wales test matches are almost scripted, aren't they?
The same thing happens every time. It's like a rom
com where you know that they'll end up together, you know,
like a Kate Hudson movie. Yep, And you know that
the All Blacks are gonna sort of basically push out
in the fourth quarter and to a comfortable win. But

(01:12:55):
up until then there's a little bit of intrigue. You
think that Kate might not end up with Matthew McConaughey,
but in the end she does. I mean, it's just
the way it is. And so I think it was
just for the course really to beat Wales like that.
But happy to see Ruben Love and a few others
out there play really well and wanted to TEETI suddenly
just hitting his straps, running at full pace, which is

(01:13:18):
nice to see.

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
Yeah, and look, he had a terrific season last year,
as we know, and it was good to see him
recapture some of that form. What chance do you think
that a rookie wins All Blacks Player of the Year
for a second year in a row. Fabian Holland has
been awarded World Rugby's Breakthrough Player of the Year. Could
he be the All Blacks Player of the Year for
twenty five Well.

Speaker 6 (01:13:41):
I think so. I mean, I think I don't know
if you remember that my contributions to your Chowpony, but
you know, because there's so many right. But a few
weeks ago I was talking about the stats at that
incredible Test where he won fifteen or fifteen lineouts thrown
to him, and there's only one other line out won
by the All Blacks and Patrick tupel Or who took

(01:14:02):
that one. So I've never seen a stat like that
in my time covering rugby and so but the fact
that it's a rookie doing that, and I think it
was a Blitterzo test or possibly the South Africa Tests
at Eden Park where he did that, and that is
just incredible to think that he's playing that kind of
hand as a first year All Black. So yep, he's

(01:14:23):
It'd be my pick for All Black of the Year.
I mean, you know, cam Reguard has obviously shown that
he's world class and he's World fifteen material, but Holland
has been an absolute find. But I do notice that
on your show that a lot of people were definitely
pretty critical of Raisers. So it feels like the sort
of season where people aren't necessarily that and amored with

(01:14:48):
the way the All Blacks have been playing.

Speaker 4 (01:14:50):
No, I think you're right, and I think that's probably
fair given you know, I think the gut feel for
most people and a bicking for yours, is that they
don't feel overly optimistic about twenty twenty seven. I don't know,
it seems odd, but we do go from World Cup
to World Cup. How do you feel about whether the
All Blacks are in the midpoint of the World Cup cycle.

Speaker 6 (01:15:13):
I feel confident in the talent that's been developed, and
I think as a development job, I think Ras has
done that really well. So you know, I'm probably an
advocate for the way he has brought plans. And although
I am a I'm a big Ruben Love fan and
I feel like having him just carrying the tackle back
for most of the tour was a wasted opportunity, you know.

(01:15:37):
So and next year he's getting Richiem Warner back, So
we may never find out how good Ruben Love it
can be as a first five at test level. But
that's fine. I mean, I think that he's had a
lot on his plate in terms of getting new All
Blacks up to scratch. The big problem is one that
a lot of your listeners has identified for me. As
well as the strategy, the attack strategy, the will's come

(01:16:00):
off a lot. You saw against England last week, you know,
plugging the blind that's crowded, basically becoming you know, turnover
fodder when you don't have enough people and support enough
cleaners they're called. So I think in terms of changes,
I think there should be someone to come in. We

(01:16:22):
can't get Tony Brown, obviously, and you did mention that
he's contracted through the twenty twenty seven for South Africa,
which is a huge bummer. But I think we need
to find the next best thing to Tony Brown to
run our attack.

Speaker 4 (01:16:36):
All right, some questions to be answered and some discussions
to be had. Can we move to the Ashes? I
was looking forward to day three of the Ashes when
I finished the show today. I was going to settle
in and double screen bit of Auckland f C a
bit of Ashes. But there aren't any more Ashes deliveries
to be had in Perth. All over in two days.

Speaker 6 (01:16:57):
I know. I can't believe that. I'm not going to
I don't want to compare this to another movie, but
it was over before it started, Pony. And the weird
thing is is that I I like bas Ball because
it's you know, it's frantic and high risk and it
feels dangerous, you know it just it says Brendan McCollum
all over it. Really But when does dads, when does

(01:17:18):
basballme come mcazi cricket. That's the question, you know, And
I think the answer is after lunch yesterday. That's when,
because England were in a really good spot. They were
in a really good spot yesterday. They had Pope and
there it was the partnership together. Sorry, I'm just looking

(01:17:41):
at notes. Pope and duck It and they were in
a good spot and they should have flipped the script
there and then and gone anti Baz and just dug in,
and I think they would have come away with at
least a tough ask for Australia, if not a victory.
And instead it was bas all the way.

Speaker 27 (01:18:00):
And you live by the beads, you die by the
bas You're right.

Speaker 4 (01:18:03):
Though, they were sixty five for one when Ducket and
Pope were together, and as you say they were, they
weren't baars balling it necessarily, but they were starting to
build what could have been a fairly handy lead. But
from sixty five for one to all out one sixty four,
what's that nine for ninety nine, you've lost.

Speaker 6 (01:18:22):
Yeah, it was an absolute disaster. And that's why at
lunch time it just would have been a perfect time
to say, okay, let's dig in now. Because the thing
about Australian bowlers is they never go away. And oh
there's a couple of times when you do notice that.
The I mean, I remember when Ross Taylor sort of
pounded them into submission a few years ago when he
got two ninety over there in Perth, but they could

(01:18:44):
still see hope. There's still grass on the pitch, probably
too much grass. I interviewed the great Jeff Thompson the
other day and he was saying there's so much grass
on these Test wickets that even he at seventy five
could take some workts, And of course I laughed, haha.
And then I watched the Test and what Actually, maybe
you're right, Jeff, because it was treacherous out there. But yeah,

(01:19:06):
this is the whole thing. Those Aussie bowlers knew there
was still hope and they still had the you know,
the bit between their teeth, and they came back and
just absolutely plowed through England. So I think that's one
that got away, and maybe that they need to mix
up that strategy from bas to anti bans just every
now and then.

Speaker 4 (01:19:25):
I agree. Now, one of the proudest sporting regions in
New Zealand is Marlborough and you had the opportunity to
m see their sports awards over the weekend.

Speaker 6 (01:19:36):
Oh poney, what a night to be down there. I
probably will never get invited back, but was great to
be in Blenham and a fantastic crowd there. I loved it.
You know, like this is one of those things where
I know that you're seeing the Nelson Awards next week
and I'm sure you'll hit it out of the park.
But look, there's some incredible athletes that have come through

(01:19:58):
there and you kind of forget Lance Kins. You know,
there's Joe Sullivan of course, a gold medalist row of his,
Anton Oliver and others you know, who've just been luminaries
of the Mulborough sporting scene.

Speaker 4 (01:20:14):
Leon McDonald was a Mulber boy, I think, yes.

Speaker 6 (01:20:17):
Leo McDonald, David Hill, There's lots of them that have
come through there. But the Supreme Award winner last night
was Tomurthy tavitav Nahweyo, so he turned up from Fiji
and Marlborough. And the great thing about it is like, look,
there were other really cool athletes as well. I should
mention before get into Timurthy and the victory acceptance speech.

(01:20:40):
It's just that there was two young cyclists we should
look out for, brother and sister, Finn and Neve McKenzie
watched this space, both under nineteen or nineteen years old
and both doing incredible things on the world stage. And
then Meeg Flanagan, a roller who's very talented and under
twenty three crews currently at University of Tennessee with his

(01:21:01):
sister Emma, an equally talented rower, So look out for them.
But Tomurthy couldn't be there getting in his knee operation done.
And a guy called Bill Matthews, Uncle Bill they call him,
who looked after Tomurthy as soon as he arrived. And
Marlborough made the speech. And there's something to be said
for having real salt of the Earth people getting up

(01:21:21):
on stage and telling inappropriate stories. It actually works, Piney,
because everyone else is saying the normal lip server stuff,
positive things and blah blah blah. But honestly, Bill brought
the house down and I'm not going to tell the
inappropriate stories today on zeb But he did tell one
story about how he wasn't that keen on fitness in

(01:21:42):
the early days to Morthy and he said the equivalent
of his idea of fitness was just to lie on
the bed and then he'd tell him to get out
of bed, and he'd just opened one eye like a tuatara,
he said, and that was that was the most exercise,
he said, in the early days. But he turned it
around and then became a champion.

Speaker 4 (01:22:02):
Wonderful stuff. I'll get you to send me all your
notes with including your jokes that I can use a
Nelson in a week's time. Jim boy, it's good to
chat mate. James mcconey part of our Sunday seven to
two four away from two, after the news too. We're
going to pivot away from the rugby. Thank you for
all your calls and your feedback and your correspondence. It's
been a great chat. This afternoon, we're going to pivot
to the ashes where it will be more conversation to

(01:22:24):
be had. What's happened to the principles of red bull batting?
They seem to have been completely abandoned, certainly by these
two teams. Adam Peacock going to join us to run
an eye over the ashes and we'll preview the Las
Vegas Grand Prix Liam Lawson starting from sixth.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
The only place to discuss the biggest sports issues on
and after fields.

Speaker 5 (01:22:46):
It's all on.

Speaker 11 (01:22:47):
Weekend Sport with Jason Paine on your home of sport
US Talk.

Speaker 4 (01:22:54):
Two o seven on Weekend Sport. Thanks for joining us.
We're here till three, Tim Beverage. After that, Before we
get there, I want to have a yarn about this
Ali Cup Tour scenario where he won't play for the
Melbourne Storm at all in twenty twenty six. The club
have confirmed that that was after he required emergency brain

(01:23:17):
surgery and the wake of Tong has lost to the
Kiwis in Auckland earlier this month. I'm sure we've all
caught up with the dreadful scenes we saw there and
the fact that Ali Kator took a head knock before
the game had even started and yet was allowed to play,
where he took two further blows to the head which
led to the situation we now find ourselves in. Kiwi's

(01:23:39):
doctor Greg McLeod with us this hour with his thoughts
on this and what we can learn from the whole thing.
We'll get you to Vegas where the Las Vegas grom
Prix is set to go in just under three hours,
Leeam Lawson. As you heard in the Sports News there
with e larger starting from sixth on the grid. Second
time he's qualified inside the top ten. Let's hope that
he can at least hold that position and who knows,

(01:24:02):
push for something even higher, maybe his best ever Formula
One finish. I want to talk the ashes shortly as well.
I'm very keen to hear your thoughts on this. It'spen
to be a test match, isn't It is Test cricket
down just not even a thing anymore. Maybe it's not.
Adam Peacock going to join us shortly and then I'm
going to get your thoughts on this. We continue to

(01:24:24):
take your calls and your feedback on anything that grabs
your attention. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is
our number nine two ninety two for your text messages
emails to Jason at Newstalk SDV dot co dot nz.
As we took past eight after two time to catch
you up on the plethora of sporting action that's occurred
since last week. Spoke in case you missed at starting

(01:24:49):
in the Australian National Basketball League, a much needed win
for the Breakers over Ken's locking said again a nice midrange.
Mc Rays tried all.

Speaker 7 (01:24:59):
He can so no avail the New Zealand Breakers.

Speaker 4 (01:25:05):
Pretty much late start to finish and they end up
winning this game by six points one two ninety six
to the final score, and the Breakers slowly moving up
the ladder. They're up to seventh now and the A
League means MacArthur have stormed Wellington and taken home maximum points.
Down the left come MacArthur and it.

Speaker 18 (01:25:24):
Comes to Sawyer.

Speaker 11 (01:25:26):
What a tava is? Sleep by all the way in me?

Speaker 28 (01:25:28):
But it's Manderswayan and Harrison.

Speaker 29 (01:25:31):
Sawyer with a second.

Speaker 28 (01:25:32):
Goal of the season and MacArthur's first away goal of
the season celebrates the goal which separates the sides now.

Speaker 4 (01:25:43):
And separated them at the end. One Milton MacArthur over
the Phoenix. Staying with football, some stunning results in the
Premier League, Liverpool dropping points at home against Nottingham Forest
and the young man can produce something for it.

Speaker 7 (01:25:57):
Hutchinson finding a way through smartstop from anison Kipswaits finishes
the job surely.

Speaker 4 (01:26:06):
To Forests three nil to Nottingham Forest over Liverpool and
Enfield and Manchester City lost as well to Newcastle Barns.

Speaker 15 (01:26:16):
Murphy bal Tomata and it's ten in.

Speaker 29 (01:26:23):
After much prevarication, Harvey Barns at Dan.

Speaker 7 (01:26:29):
Three girls now in the space of six minutes, two
of them for Harvey Barnes at.

Speaker 4 (01:26:35):
Newcastle and a two to one win for Newcastle at
home to Manchester City. Must mention Crystal Palace as well.
They were two nil winners away at Wolverhampton. Dan Hooker
lost by a submission in the octagon and Cutter this
morning deciding.

Speaker 15 (01:26:51):
Whether or not to step off because he could lose
position if because he'd.

Speaker 4 (01:26:54):
Get the child. You can tell Dan's kind of weak.
Depending now for Dan Hooker and is the mister man
Sorote Journey's back in contention. I'm on the Serukian showing
his prow SC's now in line for a title shot
and to rugby. France delivered Australia a winless Northern to us.

Speaker 7 (01:27:19):
Scrappy on the deck and I said, they're going to
put some pressure on austray get their defensive line up,
They're going to make their tackles take time and he
come friends with their break.

Speaker 9 (01:27:28):
Out viewing here bearing for France.

Speaker 5 (01:27:36):
It's he's second and that likely enough.

Speaker 4 (01:27:39):
Forty eight thirty three the final score there and the
spring box continue to prove that they are without doubt
the number one side in world rugby. A twenty four
to thirteen win over Ireland. The Irish drum pulverized once more.

Speaker 5 (01:27:53):
Finebag and Goma Zoo.

Speaker 11 (01:27:56):
Sutter. You sit the sad.

Speaker 4 (01:28:02):
Side through the completed defense of.

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
The Irish when it's down to the line. You made
a call on eight Weekend Sport with Jason Pine News
Talks EV.

Speaker 4 (01:28:15):
Twelve minutes past two. The first Ashes cricket Test is
over inside two days in Perth. Makeshift opener Travis Head
has cracked the sixth equal fastest century in Test history
to deliver Australia an eight wicket win over England, guards.

Speaker 29 (01:28:35):
It and gets the hundred short just sixty nine goals.
But I'm so sweet for Travis Head. He was taken
at the top and he has absolutely delivered Christine in
one of the great Ashes hundreds. He preferred fastest one hundred.

Speaker 4 (01:28:54):
Pret Australia y Test cricket and needing to score two
hundred and five to win the Test match, the highest
score of the Test. Travis Head reached his one hundred
off just sixty nine balls and eventually mashed one hundred
and twenty three of just eighty three deliveries, sixteen fours
and four six's, combining in stands of seventy five with

(01:29:14):
Jake Weatherall for the first wicket and one hundred and
seventeen with Manus Lava Shane for the second. Regular Saturday
Australian correspondent Adam Peacock was in Perth yesterday and he
joins us, now, how should we reflect on a Test
that lasted just one hundred and forty one overs and
finished inside two days?

Speaker 27 (01:29:35):
It was mad piney, good afternoon. Yeah, I'm back in
Sydney already. Actually look at the red eye flight back
back from Perth, and yeah, because I saw it was
going to be a sunny Sunday in Sydney. So out
of their quick, smart but just extraordinary. It's mad how
quickly it all happened, and just a violent momentum changes.

(01:29:58):
They weren't just subtle ones and see in Test cricket
they were just like it all happened in clumps. It
was extraordinary.

Speaker 4 (01:30:05):
Travis Head one hundred and twenty three off three's aside
his century off sixty nine balls. Tell us a bit
about his innings.

Speaker 27 (01:30:13):
Yeah, he was watchful enough by his standards to start
with and then just got in a rhythm like he does.
And we've seen it before. We've seen it in Test
cricket before, we've seen it in World Cup finals before
against India. It was actually the two year anniversary this week.
If he's if he's not in the World Cup Final,
he's come up with something as special to take the

(01:30:35):
game away from England in literally an hour. Once he
once he got on a roll that I was down
there on the boundary rope and you just saw the
the body language of the English. It just like the
life has been sucked out of the ball by ball
and by the time they got to the end of
it that I just had no answers. Even Marnus was

(01:30:56):
getting in in the act and charging and moving around
the crease to fashion shots that he wouldn't ordinarily come
up with.

Speaker 6 (01:31:02):
So it was just it was just so weird, so
weird what happened.

Speaker 4 (01:31:06):
So Travis h was only opening the batting, wasn't he
as a as a bit of a makeshift open He
normally beats sort of four or five, doesn't he. But
still an issue around Usmand Kawaja and his injury. They
won't move Trevors hit up as a permanent opener. Will
they that this is just kind of a one off thing.

Speaker 6 (01:31:23):
Yeah, hard to know.

Speaker 27 (01:31:25):
They've got options now. So I didn't know that there's
a C eleven game going on at the moment over
there in Perth against England lines and Josh Engliss opened
for the C eleven, So I don't know if that
was a because Josh Engliss was in the test squad,
if that was a thought that they might go down

(01:31:45):
that path if Kawasha doesn't come up. Look Usma Kawaja.
Obviously he's had back spasms, and the usual thought is
if you go out with something like that, come back in.
You didn't lose your spot if there was mitigating circumstances
about your condition. But he's backspasms masked a greater problem.
So there might be something structurally wrong with Usman at
the moment that he needs to take care of and

(01:32:06):
it might ruin out of the second test.

Speaker 6 (01:32:08):
I don't know what they do.

Speaker 27 (01:32:09):
I doubt that they'd put Travis's head up the top
unless they were forced to what they were yesterday. But
as we saw, it's a pretty good fullback option.

Speaker 4 (01:32:19):
Absolutely well. England and their second innings at one point
were sixty five for one with Ben Duckett and Oli
Pope together, So they had a lead of over one
hundred by that stage and still nine second in things
wickets in hand. Is there just not an inclination or
an ability to not bas ball at anymore? Is that

(01:32:41):
just the way they play regardless?

Speaker 27 (01:32:42):
Now, yeah, there were hitting balls that you could leave,
and you saw that with Travis Head and Jake wheather
Or at the top of the Australian fourth innings. You
didn't have to hit every ball and once you got
the pace of the wicket then you can start to
go after things. Look at the finite thing. Travis Head
was hitting shots that on another day perhaps they get

(01:33:04):
a three feet to the left. We spoke yesterday the
shot that he played on day one, that it was
just a weird shot. He couldn't help himself. Well, a
lot of the shots he played yesterday he couldn't help himself.
Was just this time they were finding the gap. So
that's what you've got to accept with Travor's head. I
think the problem for England is that they've got about
four like that in their top six. I would say

(01:33:27):
that Joe Root and Ben Stokes and the only two
that can really control themselves when they see something that
they like. So yeah, yesterday was one of those days
where they just was just capitulated by virtue of the
fact that they couldn't show a B the patients.

Speaker 4 (01:33:43):
Is there a degree of disappointment that anybody who had
tickets from day three onwards won't see any cricket.

Speaker 27 (01:33:51):
Yeah, yeah, I don't like two days as extraordinary as
yesterday was in the last session. I don't like to
see two day tests. It doesn't help anyone really, you
wanted to see it least three days. I mean crew
of Australia they've been in the fetal position finance today,
but the fact that they've had to refund a sellout
crowd today, a near sellout on day four and probably

(01:34:14):
a few tickets on day five as well. But you
run your risk in the modern day of I think
there's been thirty four tests this year, nine of them
gone five days, and to five of those were the
England India Test series. So elsewhere in the world only
four tests have gone five days in all of twenty
twenty five, so it's a weird. I'll set up right now,

(01:34:36):
But yeah, I'd like to see a bit more cricket
played please. You mentioned at the top under two hundred
overs in the whole match. That's that's not great, that's
not fantastic. So yeah, hopefully, hopefully it's not the precursor
to something to come throughout the whole series.

Speaker 4 (01:34:52):
And just the word on Mitchell Stark, who picked up
ten wickets for the match. I know he was a
guest of yours on your excellent Willow Talk podcast. He
just keeps on keeping on, doesn't he. Well over four
hundred wickets. Now, how many more years would Stark have
in the tank and teast matches?

Speaker 16 (01:35:09):
Well?

Speaker 27 (01:35:10):
Now that he's given up two twenty internationals, So yeah,
he might go around for another One Day World Cup,
but I think he's going to prioritize playing Test matches,
so I can see him go around for another couple
at least. Yeah, he'll have IPL I can't see him
playing too much more franchise cricket apart from that, so yeah,

(01:35:31):
a couple more years. I could conceivably see him go
to the Ashes series away in twenty twenty seven. I
can't see why not. So yeah, he's in superb physical
condition at this stage. It's a long summer. It's one
Test match, a very short Test match, which helps everyone.
But yeah, he's prepared. It's no surprise that he's come

(01:35:52):
up with a result like this given how he's prepared.
I saw his preparation all the way through from a
couple of months ago up there in Brisbane where he
just started running again. He needed an ankle thing could
look after. He need a quarter zone and he's just
slowly built, slowly built. Played a bit of white Book
for Australia, play the shargwn for you South Wales and
it's turned out perfectly for it.

Speaker 4 (01:36:11):
I appreciate you chatting to us on a different day.
Enjoy the rest of your sunny Sunday in Sydney, Adam.
Thanks for taking our call, mate.

Speaker 27 (01:36:20):
I'm spending lunch time watching Newcastle United in Manchester City.

Speaker 6 (01:36:24):
I know what happens.

Speaker 27 (01:36:25):
I just want to relive it.

Speaker 4 (01:36:26):
So what a twenty four hours for you. Incredible love
it mate, Thanks thanks again. Adam Peacock joining us. He's
our regular Saturday correspondent of course, but checking in today
with what happened at the Ashes yesterday. Yeh. Check out
the Willow Talk podcast he and Brad Hadden are in
charge of that and it's a very very good listen.

(01:36:48):
I keep for your thoughts on this. Imagine if you
had tickets for Day three of the first Ashes Test
in Perth today, and thousands and thousands of people will
have had tickets, Families who perhaps could only have to
go to one day, so they would have chosen today

(01:37:09):
Sunday as the day they get along. Day three normally
a good day in a Test match. What about the
corporates who will have selected today as the day they
bring their their clients, their customers along to, you know,
to sort of whine and dine them at the cricket.
What about all the food that's been ordered in advance,

(01:37:31):
ready for the thousands and thousands of hungary and thirsty
patrons today. What happens to all of that food? Cricket
fans of all types will have planned to day at
the cricket today, but there's no cricket for them because
in the space of one hundred and forty one overs,
the game's done. And this wasn't a two day Test

(01:37:51):
because of any demons in the wicket. It's not because
of an art a mismatch. These are too of supposedly
the best test teams in the world starting their battle
for the oldest prize in the game. Theyse to have
been playing test cricket against each other for one hundred
and forty eight years, and all of a sudden the
current crop have either forgotten how to play this form

(01:38:13):
of the game or they just can't be bothered anymore.
What happened to occupying the crease, playing yourself in, getting
a gauge on the pitch, the conditions the opposition bowler
is putting a price on your wicket, building partnerships, grinding
the other team down, keeping them out there in the
hot sun for as long as possible. What happened to
a bit of application? Or is this now what Test

(01:38:38):
cricket is just a slightly longer game of T twenty.
Look if it is, then I guess that's okay. But
we do need to have a serious chat about reducing
test matches from five days down to four. Adam Peacock
has pointed it out, the very small percentage of tests
that now go to five days. I mean, can you,

(01:38:59):
with hand on heart say that you think any of
the three test matches between New Zealand and the West
Indies next month will go five days, not because the
Western these will necessarily come out on bas ballot, but
because they now can't field a Test side that you
have any confidence in. We can talk some meshes of

(01:39:20):
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. Hello, Dallas.

Speaker 6 (01:39:23):
Heiney.

Speaker 3 (01:39:26):
It's changed.

Speaker 30 (01:39:27):
Test cricket has changed forever now and it's because of
basball and T twenty. T twenty and Test cricket will merge.
You watch in five years, they will merge completely and
there won't be two different types of player, will be
the same Travis Head type of player, and it'll be

(01:39:48):
What I'm really interested is do they leave Travis Head
at the top of the order, because if that is true,
that means T twenty has won, and.

Speaker 3 (01:39:59):
You know, I wouldn't be a posted.

Speaker 30 (01:40:00):
I just love to see that.

Speaker 27 (01:40:02):
And if they did that, they would.

Speaker 30 (01:40:03):
Bring in Mitch Marsh if they had any flair. They're
bringing miss Vash who is the same type of player
for the middle order, which would really bring some excitement
in there. So yeah, I think players these days that
don't care about losing all those Things's players they'll be
out enjoying a game of golf today.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
They don't care about loving.

Speaker 4 (01:40:24):
Will they will? They don't tell us. I still, I
know what you're saying, and I and I get that
times have changed, But I say.

Speaker 5 (01:40:33):
What happened?

Speaker 4 (01:40:34):
What occupying the crease playing balls on their merits?

Speaker 24 (01:40:38):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:40:38):
Like I've just had a message through from a colleague
saying that he understands that Cricket Australia have lost five
million dollars because that test ended on day two. I
mean they'll be, they'll be, they'll be crying into their
I mean they'll have masses of beer leaft because I
haven't been a a sell it, they'll be crying into it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:56):
Yeah, that's a problem I must have met. That's a problem.

Speaker 30 (01:40:58):
But on the plot side, it's going to be a
sellout for for Brisbane days day one and two.

Speaker 4 (01:41:05):
Yeah, I wouldn't be buying ticket beyond that. I wouldn't
be booked tickets beyond that.

Speaker 6 (01:41:10):
Look.

Speaker 4 (01:41:10):
Actually, my producer Andy, who you've probably spoke to, is
when you rung through, has got tickets to the Adelaide
Test in I think it's it starts on Wednesday, the
seventeenth of December. Actually we can probably bring them in.
Have you got tickets for the whole test, Andy, or
have you just bought day one tickets? What have you
done finding I've got four day, four day tickets. Good.

(01:41:35):
You need to, You'll need to. You'll need to find
something else to do on day four, definitely, maybe day three.

Speaker 31 (01:41:41):
I'm very concerned about all of this. I've actually started
to book a look at booking and like wine tours
up the Barossa Valley tours tours across Adelaide, because I
don't want to be stuck there with nothing to do.
It's I've been told I've never been it, but I've
been told it's a fantastic, fantastic place to visit. So
I will be fine, but I'm quite concerning. I want

(01:42:02):
to I will be absolutely ropeable if it's a two
and a bit day test that I that I bok
out all the money to.

Speaker 30 (01:42:11):
You'll see the players on the wine to its.

Speaker 31 (01:42:15):
True actually at the budge, at the costs suddenly skyrockets
because demands a lot higher as well. I might try
to keep an eye out for them as well, but
a piece of.

Speaker 4 (01:42:26):
Something that surge pricing because there will be all these
people with a couple of days on their hands. Hey, Dallas,
thanks mate, good to chat. The next Test, incidentally between
these two, is scheduled for Brisbane December. And I say this,
you know with a grain of salt, from December four
to eight, so certainly December four and five. But you would,
wouldn't you, You would be now reticent to buy tickets

(01:42:50):
for anything beyond well, I was going to say beyond
day three, but you know, like I said, there'll be
a lot of people who bought Day three tickets and
have to be refunded. But it's not the refunder say
get your money back so you don't lose out. But
yet what you lose out on is watching a day
of cricket. That's the only test as I understand it
in Perth this summer. So a lot of people would say, okay,

(01:43:14):
we'll get along on the Sunday, that'll be a good
day to go along. Well, you know it's a we'll
get there. Turn up at Optors today and there's nobody there.
Two twenty sevenitor is, we'll take a break, come back
more cricket if you like. We'll also talk some some
Grand Prix and some rugby league before three o'clock.

Speaker 1 (01:43:32):
One crouch Hold engaged Weekend Sports with Jason Pain and GJ. Gunderholmes,
New Zealand's most trusted home builder News Talk to Bailey.

Speaker 4 (01:43:42):
Two thirty from Glenn on email Jason, Australia open They're
own chase with Travis Head aka their own version of
bas ball and how it worked brilliant, although perhaps as
much as a result of player injury as tactical. Now.
I do worry for England, says Glenn, who are going
to have to be more circumspect in their approach. Good
coaches are able to change tactics, so we'll find out

(01:44:04):
how good McCullum is. As one thing you have to
do is respect your opponent and attack their weaknesses. This
Australian attack is not a weakness and Pat Commers is
still to return. This will be a whitewash unless England
changed their tactics. Thank you, Glen.

Speaker 18 (01:44:19):
Well.

Speaker 4 (01:44:19):
Let's hear from Ben Stokes, the captain of England. What
were his initial thoughts after this very short Test match?

Speaker 23 (01:44:26):
Yeah, yeah, obviously pretty tough, you know, going into our
bowling innings there where, you know, Australia had to chase
the sort of highest square of the Test. Much we
were you know, we're pretty confident in our abilities be
able to go on bold them out. But yeah, I

(01:44:46):
mean at the moment, still in a little bit of
a wow phase after what Travis had just done to us.
It was, yeah, pretty incredible special not from Travis.

Speaker 4 (01:44:57):
Were they a bit shell shocked England with the way
that Australia set about the run chase?

Speaker 23 (01:45:01):
Yeah, I think you know, it was obvious to us
as a group when Travis came out. It was off
the order there with Jake that they'd sent Travis out
there to play the role in which he was so
successful at doing. And yeah, it was it was so
hard to be able to continue with plans in which

(01:45:23):
you know, we tried to implement because he had an
answer for everything. You know, we went through three four,
five different modes to try and get the wicked of
Travis because when he was going, we knew that he
was going to be the big one. But yeah, he
just had an answer to absolutely everything. And you know,
he really took the balls on and it was.

Speaker 4 (01:45:44):
Some knock And how big a concern was it for
being Stokes that across the entire Test mates the two innings,
England were only able to bet for sixty seven overs.

Speaker 23 (01:45:55):
Well by that, you know that inning's there, you know,
Australia chasing down two hundred and was it less than
thirty overs? You know, nineteen wickets fell on day one
and the guys who had success out in the middle
were the ones who are brave enough to to take

(01:46:17):
the bowlers on and get them off the length, which
was you know, the most successful. You know, watching our
guys bowl on that first innings, they just looked, you know,
impossible in particular for Malus and Steve to be able
to score when we were able to run up and
smash away at that length. And I guess, you know,

(01:46:41):
for us and for me in conditions like that on
wickets like that that offer a lot to bowlers. When
you are the one who's managed to get the time
out in the middle, read the wicket and understand it,
it's just realizing that you know enough, never enough, even
on a wicked that is obviously offering a lot to

(01:47:02):
the bowlers. Yeah, it's pretty obviously the guys he managed
to find success up they were the ones who really
decided to take the game on because it was a
lot happening out there.

Speaker 4 (01:47:11):
Those are the postmatch thoughts of England captain Ben Stokes.
The second Ashes Test are set to begin in Brisbane
on the fourth of December. Just on twenty six away
from three Let's move to Rugby League, Melbourne Storm forward
Ali Katoa won't play in the NRL next year. The
club have confirmed he won't be available for the twenty

(01:47:33):
twenty sixth season after he needed emergency brain surgery and
the wake of tong has lost to the Kiwis in Auckland.
Earlier this month, the twenty five year old former Warriors
player was rushed to hospital having taken three head knocks
before and during the Pacific Championship Test. Storm CEO Justin
Rodsky says cart Tower has returned to Melbourne, but after

(01:47:55):
consultation with the club's doctor and some neuro specialists, he
will not be available in twenty twenty six. Let's get
some further insight into this, Kiwis doctor Greg mcclouds with us. Greig,
thanks for taking the time for a chat this afternoon.
What was your overall assessment of what played out in
the case of Elie Katoa?

Speaker 18 (01:48:17):
Oh?

Speaker 32 (01:48:18):
Thanks soason think for time. So firstly, what played out?
My heart goes out to Ellie and his family. I
know it's a pretty traumatic event and I'm devastating for
him for the head of the season and how applaud
the Melbourne Storm for giving him the time to recover.
So yeah, very unfortunate events, but I guess we need
to take some learnings from that. Of course, you know

(01:48:40):
what happened was you know, you sort everyone needs to
reflect on that, not not only about what happened, but
how that could be prevented. Certainly the situation that unfolded.
You know, there are obviously multiple what seems to me
seemed to multiple steps there that perhaps there could have
been some change at certain levels. And I know the
l's done some independ investigation and hopefully you will get

(01:49:01):
some learnings for that. But what we take from that
is a certain there is a collective responsibility to actual
We hopefully don't see anything like that Again's no, you know,
there's seen some practical music but in place, but the
changing type of attitude towards head injuries and edication needs
to continue to change, which it is, but it needs

(01:49:22):
to hopefully catch up a bit quicker.

Speaker 4 (01:49:25):
This was a slightly unusual situation and that he took
a head knock before the game started, during during the
warm ups. How common is that and is there a
protocol for situations like that?

Speaker 32 (01:49:37):
Yeah, I think this is what the learning, one of
the major learning is where you hopefully what we should
take from us is that it has highlight the potential
gap in the game. In my opinion, you know, we
do have increasing types and measures that happened during the
game with independent concussion spots and the banker system, which
is a good thing and I think we should continue
to support that model. But you know, what happened the

(01:50:01):
warm up, there is still an era which injuries can happen,
which you know obviously was a case there. And you know,
while there was a video footage of that which emerged
that wasn't actually was on broadcast news for broadcast footage.
And perhaps there need to be some extension of the
courage of spotters and formal coverage of that for available

(01:50:23):
for sort of monitoring and review to extend into the
warm up because that's clearly an injury restaurant as it's eventuated,
but it's probably a gap there which we've now.

Speaker 6 (01:50:33):
Since seen and realized that good potent.

Speaker 32 (01:50:35):
You could make some movements there.

Speaker 4 (01:50:37):
You talked before Greg quite rightly about practical applications, practical
steps that can be taken, but also attitudes. Is there
still a big challenge in getting pliers to admit when
they've taken a knock to the head.

Speaker 3 (01:50:51):
It is.

Speaker 32 (01:50:51):
There's some very good research through Tom Long with his
performer's Roosts doctor the friend of NROL experience. At a
nice cross sectional study in twenty twenty one on the
attitude and reporting of specifically elite rugged players and the
NRAL back report, seventeen percent admitted to not reporting concussion symptoms.
That is then, you know, full five years ago now,

(01:51:13):
So you would like to think things are changing, But
I do think there is obviously still an element of
underreporting that happens, and that's really differentive. It's a tricky
era because I guess that comes down to motivation to
report and not report it. You know, if you look
at the situation that happened on in the Pacific Championships,
young man making you know, about to play for his

(01:51:36):
country in a crucially important match. You know, I don't
know what was going through his head. I don't know
what happened. I don't know if there was even a
discussion of that, but that might be a very different scenariot.
Someone who's playing in an inner player has been dropped
to the reserve grade and in that bottom of the ladder.
So you know, there's all these intrinsic motivations and there's
external ones too, but you know the tendency like is

(01:51:58):
there if I don't play? What will that mean? Will
I lose my face? Will that guarante their contract? So
sort of multi variable question as I imagine that would
influence that.

Speaker 6 (01:52:08):
But we do know that.

Speaker 32 (01:52:10):
Concussion symptoms are underreported. I don't know what the current
rate is, but it's a very well recognized fact that
it does happen.

Speaker 4 (01:52:17):
Just for clarity, Greg, if a player does take a
head not, let's bring it into the game where it's
most common. If a player takes a head not during
the game and it has to come off, well, actually,
let's take a back. If a player takes a head
not during a game, what is the protocol? What is
your responsibility as part of the medical team.

Speaker 32 (01:52:33):
So, as I mentioned in the side, it's a collective responsibility.
So it's you know, gathering the colatter information about who
saw what, and there are processes formerly a place for that,
and you know, each team has their own sort of
personal relationships with the onfield stuff and supporting of those
are good ones, but collective responsibility to see and act
and report about what you're seeing. And that's not only

(01:52:54):
just you know, staff and field, it's you know, you
might see something on the sideline and other players are
actually getting better at that too. There's often we do
take a chair sity and teammates sers so I mean
he's not good. We take that very seriously because they
might see something we don't, you know. So there's a
collective responsible about recognizing potentially something happening in acting up

(01:53:15):
so you know, going to the videos and having a
look at that very quickly, you know, and having a
low threshold to have safety fairs. So when in doubt
we take them out, we take them off because there's
no harm in really bringing someone off for fifteen minutes
and working out that day find and perhaps maybe because
a cautious called bringer. I think that's always something that

(01:53:36):
should or certainly would be the practice in most peoples
in the game. That would be the way we're moving
is just if you're not sure, just let's get them
off and check them out. So having a low threshold,
I gets some suspicion for you know, it's it's something
something happened until we prove it didn't. If that makes
any sense.

Speaker 4 (01:53:55):
It does. Isn't it a potential for tension between medical
stuff and high performance stuff? Coach is saying, hy, he's fine.
I want to bag on there.

Speaker 32 (01:54:04):
Look, I want to know that's probably be a discussion
and a flavor of what's potentially gone past. Again, that
comes down to education and understanding concussion in the wider context. Again,
it's a collective responsibilities. A lot of I think discussions
before you get to that point. So you know, if
this is certainly something that I do in my prats,
I've done with my coaches in the science, Yason, we

(01:54:27):
have an open ye this Sometimes this is effect of
a lot of the game. It's contacts or people will
get head injuries, and it is what it is. We
have to look after the player and getting by in
is you know, certainly can be very I understand that
people are bit different, but having a good relationship with
medical staff and performance staff is crucial, and I think

(01:54:48):
we're moving close and closer to that as we say
more normally and I think within the introduction of the
independent system has created an opportunity there or at least
a discussion, but that sometimes that might not necessarily be
a decision. So that's actually made it a bit easier
for team stuff. Uh, you know they were taking off independently.

(01:55:09):
It wasn't there is no stake in the game, and
the person's not right and someone else is agreeing with me,
So that's it's it's becoming less NECESSI an mission certainly
not a not an issue that I come across at all.

Speaker 4 (01:55:21):
That's great to hear, and just to Finn, it's just
back to this specific case and it's it's a it's
a terrible case and the consequences are significant. A year
out of the game, do you think the seriousness of
this and the consequence is now faced by Eli Cartor
because of it will serve as a wake up cause?
The right the right phrase, a cautionary tale? Will it?
Will it? Will it improve attitudes? Do you think or

(01:55:42):
help to improve player attitudes about head knocks?

Speaker 32 (01:55:45):
I certainly, I do think it will. I certainly hope so,
I hope while it was an unfortunate incident, I hope
I hope we do all take some learnings from that
and how to prevent and and not end up in
a situation that. I mean, it's just often I'm glad,
he's he's okay. His future is a bit uncertain, which
is very unfortunate. But hopefully we will all take some

(01:56:08):
caution in the wind with regards to these things head knocks,
and you should never underestimate them because you know, it's
not a case of she'll be right, it's something sometimes
that's turned out a bit worse. So i'd hope so
I hope you'd hope that will serve as a as
a as a learning point for future education decisions discussions

(01:56:33):
which are all upcoming toll upon us now at pre
season has just started everywhere across in Rowland. Hopefully that
could be a very topical reminder that we need to
take this seriously.

Speaker 4 (01:56:43):
Let's hope so, Greg, you've provided superb inside and expertise.
Thanks for joining us this afternoons.

Speaker 6 (01:56:49):
My pleasure.

Speaker 4 (01:56:49):
That is Greg McLeod. He was he is was the
key with his doctor in that test match actually and
providing excellent insight there. Let's hope that lessons are learned
seventeen away from three take right Vegas, Las Vegas Grand
Prix at five o'clock this after known. Liam Lawson sixth
on the grid, will preview it for you when we

(01:57:09):
come back.

Speaker 2 (01:57:11):
You be the TMO.

Speaker 1 (01:57:13):
Have your say on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
Weekend Sport with Jason Pine and GJ. Gavnerholmes, New Zealand's
most trusted home builder news Dogs.

Speaker 4 (01:57:22):
They'd be just on thirteen away from three. Just a
quick shout out to Macca listening to U Lence and
Blaze the Dog as well. Good to have you with
us this afternoon. Can we drive a Liam Lawson showed
his class in a wet and wild qualifying session for
Formula one's Las Vegas Grand Prix. He'll start sixth on
the grid. It's laws in second, top ten start in
succession qualifying and finishing seventh in Brazil earlier this month.

(01:57:46):
Let's bring in journalist with the Las Vegas Review Journal,
Mick Acres. Mick, how treacherous were conditions during qualifying?

Speaker 33 (01:57:55):
Yeah, you know, early on and yeah, it looked like
the rain wasn't gonna get it kind of last through
out the night, but somehow, some way, the radar got
defied and it started pouring, you know, messing into the
last few minutes of qualifying because you can visibly see
the water flying up on the starting grip. When they
kept coming by and qualifying, he saw a lot of slideouts.

(01:58:16):
It was pretty treacherous. But I think the crowd took
it well. The grand stands were filled up. They're out
there having fun, so you know, despite their reign, it's
really it's not an usual occurrence. I heard November in
Las Vegas, so it's little an anomaly, I would say,
But you know, people took it in. The drivers obviously
did what they could, but kind of provided a little
bit more you know, excitement for the race.

Speaker 4 (01:58:37):
I think indeed, how much impact did it have on
qualifying order for the Rice.

Speaker 33 (01:58:43):
Well, it didn't really delay anything.

Speaker 3 (01:58:45):
You know.

Speaker 33 (01:58:46):
Obviously they have all their sets of tires that deal
with different whether and all that, so they brought out
some of the wats at first, seemed like towards the
end they kind of went to the intermediate. So as
far as like any of the time or anything, everything's
pretty much stayed true to form.

Speaker 5 (01:58:59):
So no real impact there.

Speaker 4 (01:59:01):
Okay, So as you say, we kind of always trust
the way the full cast. But is it bitter for
Rice Die today?

Speaker 33 (01:59:08):
Yeah, I'm out here at the Blasio Fountain Club on
the Strip looking up at the sky. I can see
the sun poking through. So that's the first time we've
seen that in two days. So things are kind of
getting dried up right now. We've seen, you know a
lot of traffic on the strip right now. Obviously in
a few hours are gonna shut it down for the
you know, some of the academy stuff to get underway
and then some of the you know drives to get
out there and the race start here. But yeah, sun's

(01:59:28):
starting to come out, so you know, things are getting
dry and you know, like you said, you can't always
trust it, but hey, cross the fingers.

Speaker 5 (01:59:34):
I think it's gonna be a pretty good night.

Speaker 4 (01:59:37):
All right. We'll look forward to that third time. If
one has been held in Vigas, how popular is the
event there?

Speaker 5 (01:59:43):
Yeah, so it's growing.

Speaker 33 (01:59:44):
The first year there was like nine months of roadwork
that led up to it, so it kind of angered
a lot of the locals, right, so they didn't really
know what that one was. So the second year those
a lot less road construction. It's just the set up
time and tear down time and same for this year.
So they've been that one's been really good at getting
out in the community. They've been trying to do a
lot of community benefit things, giving out tickets like teachers

(02:00:06):
and there are people doing good things in the in
the charitable world here, So they're kind of been putting
the planning to seed to make it more of an
accepted a bit here in Las Vegas, and I think
it's kind of paying off for them.

Speaker 4 (02:00:16):
So Lando Norris is on pole for a third strike Rice,
See is he favorite? Can he put the Driver's Championship?
You know, pretty much had to reach this week? Can't
have a Lando Norris look and qualifying?

Speaker 33 (02:00:30):
Yeah, you know, obviously it's kind of back and forth.
And then it was the last second where his last
lap around he took over the poll. So one of
the exciting aspects about the range is that he kind
of put it all on the line at the last
lap there and he came close to hitting the wall.
So he took that chance and it paid off for him.
He's definitely favorite here in the sports books. Obviously, I
don't think he could fully put it away unless so,

(02:00:52):
you know, everyone behind him crashes his teammate crashers and
all that, but I.

Speaker 5 (02:00:56):
Think he can set them stuff up for a success
with a good run here.

Speaker 4 (02:01:00):
Tell us about this track and opportunities for posting on
this track where energy, bit of energy in the backround
there there was passing the opportunity.

Speaker 33 (02:01:15):
Yeah, this one tends to have the more, the more,
the most overtakes on the season, So there's tons of
chances for overtakes, which makes this one of the most
exciting UH races on the season. We got them one
quarter mile along UH stressed on the Las Vegas Strip itself.
A lot of turns after that, but yeah, this one
is definitely there's ample opportunity for overtakes here.

Speaker 4 (02:01:36):
And now Man k we man Liam Lulson sixth in qualifying.
What have you mind of his performances over the weekend.

Speaker 33 (02:01:44):
Yeah, you know there's he could you know, he's kind
of an underdog, right, so a lot of people in
the crowd are have been pretty excited about the way
he's been performing, especially last night. They saw, you know,
it's kind of up there on the grid at first
when they're in Q three, so a lot of people
are kind of getting behind him.

Speaker 5 (02:01:59):
That's kind of cool.

Speaker 33 (02:01:59):
To see, so, uh see how that kind of carries
over into tonight's race.

Speaker 4 (02:02:04):
All right, And just for clarity, uh what time local
time does the rice get under? Why it's five o'clock
over here in New Zealand, Thom, is it eight o'clock?

Speaker 24 (02:02:10):
A not for you?

Speaker 5 (02:02:12):
Eight pm?

Speaker 33 (02:02:13):
So you know, two hours early in the last year,
which was ten. So obviously we're gonna we're gonna end
it before men at our time. They kind of work
with the people. They took a lot of feedback from
the past attendees saying, hey, we wanted to end a
little bit earlier. Obviously they do it at night for
the lights in Vegas and also for the overseas audience
on TV. But I think in then and at ten
is gonna be a great way to kind of, you know,

(02:02:34):
kick this race off, you know, get the finishers there
and then people can get back out in the strip
and enjoy the casinos, that dining in the club and
all that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (02:02:42):
Yeah, plenty to to enjoy in Vegas, that's for sure. Him.
Thanks for your Tom mickaik is from the Las Vegas
Review Journal. The Las Vegas Grand Prix starts at five
o'clock this afternoon New Zealand Time eight to three.

Speaker 1 (02:02:54):
Analyzing every view from every angle in the Sporting World.
Weekend Sport with Jason five then call always under eight
us talks in B.

Speaker 4 (02:03:04):
Five to three. That's us to beverage in with the
Weekend Collective after three o'clock. Thank you so much for
listening across the weekend and for taking part in the show.
Great contributions, particularly around the all Blacks. We might we
might talk All Blacks again before the end of the year.
Who knows, maybe we'll pivot away to something else for
the next month or so before Christmas. Thanks to Annie

(02:03:25):
McDonald for producing the show. To Riff a workmatee, thank
you indeed for all of your heavy lifting taking us
out today. Well, in a couple of hours, all eyes
will be on Vegas where Liam Lawson. I reckon, I've
got this gut feel and I wouldn't take it for
any more than that that he will have his best
Grand Prix, not just this year, but in his career.

(02:03:46):
I just get a feeling that he may end up
somewhere near the front of that field, you know. And
so in honor of that, and with my fingers crossed,
Katy Perry waking up in Vegas, taking us out, said
tomorrow night on Sports Talk.

Speaker 11 (02:04:16):
Listens up.

Speaker 1 (02:04:34):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live
to news talks it be weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio