November 22, 2025 • 9 mins
The All Blacks finished their 2025 season on a high note, by beating out Wales in Cardiff 52-26.
Robertson and his coaching staff have come under increased scrutiny this year, with some questionable performances generating concerns from experts.
NZ Herald sports reporter Gregor Paul joined Piney to recap the side's performance for the year.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks, edb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Down the Blind Again, Love Slipping.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Through Love, I Love, They Run, Ruben Love helfor to
the right and right hand up.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Right here, Rubin Love with a try on just the
second start he's had the opportunity to take in an
All Blacks jersey. He tweaked an ankle, unfortunately off for
the last twenty five minutes, but Rubin Love another to
perhaps enhance his reputation this morning, Let's get you back
to Cardiff and bring a New Zealand Herald Rugby writer
Gregor Paul Gregor, I do want to zoom out on
(00:41):
the entire year in a moment, But what did you
make of the All Black saventy minutes in Cardiff this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, they did what they needed to do, which was
to put a fairly troubled, inexperienced, underpowered Welsh team away.
It took them a wee bit longer than I think
they ideally would have liked. I think they thought they
would break them after halftime and they didn't. It took
about sixty five minutes before they really had them dead
(01:08):
and buried. They've got some good performances out of a
few of the guys that haven't.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Played any rugby.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I thought Leonard Brown and Yowanni formed quite a good
midfield combination. Rico Sorry Rubin Love played pretty well at fullback,
a young.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Player that people are quite excited about.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
And the forward pack did what it's been doing all
year and look pretty solid at set piece.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So they ticked a lot of boxers and.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
They probably made themselves feel better about where they are
in the world right now.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Does it change the way we should view twenty twenty five?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
No, absolutely not. Be a real danger to extrapolate. You know,
a game under a roof with a dry ball against
the world's twelfth best team, and really, you know, there's
a team that's won one game at home in the
last two years and it was against Japan last week
and that was with the last minute kick.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
You know, Whales are troubled.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
You can't really look at a game where that where
space and time are commodities that are freely given, because
Wales don't have the ability to defend or set piece
the way that you know the top tier teams can.
And you look at all that and go, well, look,
it was kind of a fun exercise to finish the year.
But the most telling point would be they weren't playing
(02:27):
for a Grand Swam. They all blacks, So there you go.
That would be where you put the season into perspective
and go, yep, that's true because they were well beaten
by England and they didn't really put any other trophies
in the cabinet. I mean you can talk about the
Bleddersold Cup, but yes they retained that. But to be honest,
Australia are despite some of the performances which were quite good,
(02:50):
remain a reasonably weak team as well. And when it
really mattered, this New Zealand team didn't win the games
that needed to. It didn't play well enough for long
enough and it hasn't really given us a confidence or
optimism that that will change next year.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
So when those in charge of these things are conducting
their review, where should they be placing the harshest spotlight.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think they've got to look at their attack game.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, because New Zealand for years decades, you tend to
lead the world in that department. They tend to be
the most innovative. They tend to be able to use
the ball better than most teams they mix up their
game management well, kick run passing.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
That's where they've been world leaders.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
The skill sets are tighter and better than most other teams,
and they deliver under pressure, which has been another factor.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
All of these things appear to be on the descent.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I would argue that South Africa and I looked at
the world's best attacking team, followed by Argentina, followed by England,
followed by France, maybe not in that order, so that
would be an area I think they need to look
at their back line full stop. They haven't found a
midfield combination that feels like the right one. They're back
three again, haven't found a combination there. They're working under
(04:10):
the high ball, and Madley was actually not bad tonight.
They took a few good, good, clean high catchers and
they had They had a big bearing on how the
game played out. But that's an area under scrutiny. The
general kicking game under scrutiny, and even the defense because
bizarrely that's actually the second excuse me, highest points total
Whales have ever scored against the All Blacks tonight.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So it was an open game.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
It was a loose game, but you'd still be when
you look at the defense, which again has been a
little bit erratic all year.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
What I read will interest your pace during the week
talking about David Kirk's nuclear option and that involved a
change at the very top of the coaching structure. Can
you see a scenario under which that happens.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yep, Yeah, I think you've got to be realistic about
these things and it'd be a tough decision that would
It would be unpressure that entered for New Zealand to
do that, but right halfway point of a World Cup cycle,
and you have to if you want to be the
best team in the world. You've created this ambition to
be number one, to build a billion dollar brand on
(05:18):
the back of the old lacks. You want to win
the World Cup in twenty seven. Right now, there's a
big gap between New Zealand and South Africa, and probably
a gap between New Zealand and England and France and
possibly there I said there's one there's one building between
New Zealand and Argentina possibly at the moment as well.
So you look at all that and go okay, so
(05:40):
we're in fourth or fifth place realistically despite the world
ranking senior and second, what is the level of confidence
that this current group can change the trajectory of this team.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Can they catch South Africa?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Can they build a team, a game plan, a consistency
that is going to turn New Zealand into world champions
in two years time. If you don't believe that, and
if you think that you know that that's unlikely to happen,
then you have to seriously consider making the change now
to maximize the time that whoever you choose to make
you who comes into as a change, that you're giving
(06:19):
them the time that they will need to prepare a
team and you know, rebuild it and do whatever they
need to do to take it to the World Cup.
So look, it's cutthroat and people need to be serious
about that, and they need to be mature about that
and go, this is the gig.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
That's what high performance looks like.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Can you see them doing it? Would they have the courage,
would they have the bottle to do it? To change
all Blacks coaches midway through a World Cup cycle?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I think that the danger of that is it would
be could be overblown and say, well, you know, only
two years, two years a long time in international rugby.
Plenty of other teams have done it in World Cup
cycles and had good results. Sometimes it hasn't delivered, sometimes
it has, so there's no way of knowing. I think
the issue would be not so. I mean, you'd have
(07:10):
to challenge at the risk of changing against the risk
of not changing. That's definitely a question you need to ask.
But circularly you would need to ask if you're going
to make that change, you'd be doing sort of time
where you'd have to control the process of who you
would who would come in to replace, And that would
be the question that I think people would have is
(07:32):
would would New Zealand RUG be be certain or confident
right now given contracting situations and personnel availability, that if
they were to make a change, would they necessarily be
able to upgrade what they currently have now. Clearly Jamie
Joseph has been parked as the guy in waiting, having
taken control of the All Black fifteen last week, and
(07:55):
clearly he's coached at international level with Japan. He's experienced,
so he would be the guy. But the question then
would be would he be able to gather up enough
people around them to give the confidence that he's going
to put together, you know, a team and he might
be able to keep some of the existing guys. He
might think, yeah, look, I would probably come in and
(08:17):
keep one or two of them, but that would be it,
because it really is about a team. It's not about
one guy. It's about you. Can you put all the
pieces in place? And that would be the question. So,
and I don't know necessarily because I don't know availability.
I don't know how easy it would be to extricate
people from around the world if this job suddenly became available.
(08:38):
So these are big questions that you'd have to weigh
up and work out absolutely.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
And the obvious one is you point out is Tony
Brown but contracted with the spring Box for what that's
worth through until twenty twenty seven, plenty of food for thought. Gregor,
thank you so much for joining us. Might have loved
to coverage of us too. I look forward to seeing
you back home my pleasure. That's Gregor Paul from the
n Said Herald.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to news Talks it'd be weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks, edb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Down the Blind Again, Love Slipping.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Through Love, I Love, They Run, Ruben Love helfor to
the right and right hand up.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Right here, Rubin Love with a try on just the
second start he's had the opportunity to take in an
All Blacks jersey. He tweaked an ankle, unfortunately off for
the last twenty five minutes, but Rubin Love another to
perhaps enhance his reputation this morning, Let's get you back
to Cardiff and bring a New Zealand Herald Rugby writer
Gregor Paul Gregor, I do want to zoom out on
(00:41):
the entire year in a moment, But what did you
make of the All Black saventy minutes in Cardiff this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, they did what they needed to do, which was
to put a fairly troubled, inexperienced, underpowered Welsh team away.
It took them a wee bit longer than I think
they ideally would have liked. I think they thought they
would break them after halftime and they didn't. It took
about sixty five minutes before they really had them dead
(01:08):
and buried. They've got some good performances out of a
few of the guys that haven't.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Played any rugby.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I thought Leonard Brown and Yowanni formed quite a good
midfield combination. Rico Sorry Rubin Love played pretty well at fullback,
a young.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Player that people are quite excited about.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
And the forward pack did what it's been doing all
year and look pretty solid at set piece.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So they ticked a lot of boxers and.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
They probably made themselves feel better about where they are
in the world right now.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Does it change the way we should view twenty twenty five?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
No, absolutely not. Be a real danger to extrapolate. You know,
a game under a roof with a dry ball against
the world's twelfth best team, and really, you know, there's
a team that's won one game at home in the
last two years and it was against Japan last week
and that was with the last minute kick.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
You know, Whales are troubled.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
You can't really look at a game where that where
space and time are commodities that are freely given, because
Wales don't have the ability to defend or set piece
the way that you know the top tier teams can.
And you look at all that and go, well, look,
it was kind of a fun exercise to finish the year.
But the most telling point would be they weren't playing
(02:27):
for a Grand Swam. They all blacks, So there you go.
That would be where you put the season into perspective
and go, yep, that's true because they were well beaten
by England and they didn't really put any other trophies
in the cabinet. I mean you can talk about the
Bleddersold Cup, but yes they retained that. But to be honest,
Australia are despite some of the performances which were quite good,
(02:50):
remain a reasonably weak team as well. And when it
really mattered, this New Zealand team didn't win the games
that needed to. It didn't play well enough for long
enough and it hasn't really given us a confidence or
optimism that that will change next year.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
So when those in charge of these things are conducting
their review, where should they be placing the harshest spotlight.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think they've got to look at their attack game.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, because New Zealand for years decades, you tend to
lead the world in that department. They tend to be
the most innovative. They tend to be able to use
the ball better than most teams they mix up their
game management well, kick run passing.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
That's where they've been world leaders.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
The skill sets are tighter and better than most other teams,
and they deliver under pressure, which has been another factor.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
All of these things appear to be on the descent.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I would argue that South Africa and I looked at
the world's best attacking team, followed by Argentina, followed by England,
followed by France, maybe not in that order, so that
would be an area I think they need to look
at their back line full stop. They haven't found a
midfield combination that feels like the right one. They're back
three again, haven't found a combination there. They're working under
(04:10):
the high ball, and Madley was actually not bad tonight.
They took a few good, good, clean high catchers and
they had They had a big bearing on how the
game played out. But that's an area under scrutiny. The
general kicking game under scrutiny, and even the defense because
bizarrely that's actually the second excuse me, highest points total
Whales have ever scored against the All Blacks tonight.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So it was an open game.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
It was a loose game, but you'd still be when
you look at the defense, which again has been a
little bit erratic all year.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
What I read will interest your pace during the week
talking about David Kirk's nuclear option and that involved a
change at the very top of the coaching structure. Can
you see a scenario under which that happens.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yep, Yeah, I think you've got to be realistic about
these things and it'd be a tough decision that would
It would be unpressure that entered for New Zealand to
do that, but right halfway point of a World Cup cycle,
and you have to if you want to be the
best team in the world. You've created this ambition to
be number one, to build a billion dollar brand on
(05:18):
the back of the old lacks. You want to win
the World Cup in twenty seven. Right now, there's a
big gap between New Zealand and South Africa, and probably
a gap between New Zealand and England and France and
possibly there I said there's one there's one building between
New Zealand and Argentina possibly at the moment as well.
So you look at all that and go okay, so
(05:40):
we're in fourth or fifth place realistically despite the world
ranking senior and second, what is the level of confidence
that this current group can change the trajectory of this team.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Can they catch South Africa?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Can they build a team, a game plan, a consistency
that is going to turn New Zealand into world champions
in two years time. If you don't believe that, and
if you think that you know that that's unlikely to happen,
then you have to seriously consider making the change now
to maximize the time that whoever you choose to make
you who comes into as a change, that you're giving
(06:19):
them the time that they will need to prepare a
team and you know, rebuild it and do whatever they
need to do to take it to the World Cup.
So look, it's cutthroat and people need to be serious
about that, and they need to be mature about that
and go, this is the gig.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
That's what high performance looks like.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Can you see them doing it? Would they have the courage,
would they have the bottle to do it? To change
all Blacks coaches midway through a World Cup cycle?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I think that the danger of that is it would
be could be overblown and say, well, you know, only
two years, two years a long time in international rugby.
Plenty of other teams have done it in World Cup
cycles and had good results. Sometimes it hasn't delivered, sometimes
it has, so there's no way of knowing. I think
the issue would be not so. I mean, you'd have
(07:10):
to challenge at the risk of changing against the risk
of not changing. That's definitely a question you need to ask.
But circularly you would need to ask if you're going
to make that change, you'd be doing sort of time
where you'd have to control the process of who you
would who would come in to replace, And that would
be the question that I think people would have is
(07:32):
would would New Zealand RUG be be certain or confident
right now given contracting situations and personnel availability, that if
they were to make a change, would they necessarily be
able to upgrade what they currently have now. Clearly Jamie
Joseph has been parked as the guy in waiting, having
taken control of the All Black fifteen last week, and
(07:55):
clearly he's coached at international level with Japan. He's experienced,
so he would be the guy. But the question then
would be would he be able to gather up enough
people around them to give the confidence that he's going
to put together, you know, a team and he might
be able to keep some of the existing guys. He
might think, yeah, look, I would probably come in and
(08:17):
keep one or two of them, but that would be it,
because it really is about a team. It's not about
one guy. It's about you. Can you put all the
pieces in place? And that would be the question. So,
and I don't know necessarily because I don't know availability.
I don't know how easy it would be to extricate
people from around the world if this job suddenly became available.
(08:38):
So these are big questions that you'd have to weigh
up and work out absolutely.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
And the obvious one is you point out is Tony
Brown but contracted with the spring Box for what that's
worth through until twenty twenty seven, plenty of food for thought. Gregor,
thank you so much for joining us. Might have loved
to coverage of us too. I look forward to seeing
you back home my pleasure. That's Gregor Paul from the
n Said Herald.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to news Talks it'd be weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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