September 12, 2025 • 10 mins
The Springboks are looking to bounce back after failing to breach the Fortress last week.
They’ll be looking to keep the All Blacks from a home sweep as they face off at Wellington’s Sky Stadium tonight.
Former Springboks coach Heyneke Meye joined Piney for a chat about the key areas the ‘Boks will need to perform in to flip the script and level the series.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks edb back for.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Preston, turn Mackenzie into the stands and the All blackstaffend
the Fortress twenty four seventeen and at all time chess
match between these two nations.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, that was a week ago at Eden Park. We
go again tonight at sky Stadium. Heineke Meyer is one
of the most celebrated rugby coaches in South African history.
He was the first South African coach to win Super
Rugby with the Balls in two thousand and seven. He
was Springbox coach from twenty twelve to twenty fifteen, guiding
South Africa to third place at the twenty fifteen Rugby
World Cup. Heineka Ia joins us on the show. Heinika,
(00:51):
great to get your expertise across New Zealand. Let's go
back a week. What did you make of the spring
Box performance at Eden Park last weekend?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Yeah? Thanks? Firstly, just thank you for having me, Abbous.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
You love your country, love the All Blacks and that
epic battles, so thanks for being on your show.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yeah. I thought it was an unbelievable test match. I
was glued to my seat.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
I always knew it's gonna be very, very difficult because
especially with newziudn't losing against Argentina and with the Eden
Park record.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
But I thought it was a brilliant, brilliant Test match.
I thought this didn't really played well. I think with
the old game.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
Change for me was that when you didn't go to eat,
it's always going to be difficult for Africa to chase.
They're not a good chasing team and I just thought
the All Blacks want the small battles. I am, you know,
every small battle, especially in the rain. I thought this
landed really well and you know, put pressions in Africa
on the in the lineouts, but it all came down
(01:48):
to taking opportunities and it's always gonna be difficult if
you fought in zero down, especially away from home and
chasing in those wet conditions.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
So I thought it was an.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Awesome teste match, so Africa that well to come back,
but I wasn't.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I was involved.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
You know, I watched the previous two Test matches in
South Africa where the All Blacks was also aiding in
South Africa came back with their bench. I thought this
this time around the New Zealands show a lot of
more composure. But what the great Test match and believable
test match.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, and the best thing is we get another one
hopefully as good tonight. Interesting you mentioned the bench because
Resci Erasmus went with a five to three bench split
at Eden Park. He's done the same again tonight. Did
you think he might have gone six too, given how
effective the bomb squad tactic was in the in the
Rugby Championship in Johannesburg and Cape Town last year.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah, I think it's worked for them.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
I think with the seven one and it's too bigger
risk away from home and especially in New Zealand, I
thought a six two can work for them, and especially
I think if the game is squeak, obviously doesn't suit.
Soo Africa showed against Australia where they opened up the
game and played unbelievable rack me and then Australia came
back and beat us. But you know it just also,
I think he's got so much respect for New Zealand
(03:00):
because if you're not covered everywhere, New zident can take you,
you know, take you apart.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
But I also think he sees the backers in back
so this week's going to be a total, total different game.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
I still think they've got a good forward back, but
very exciting back.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
So it's going to be a exciting game.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Do you expect then to be more expensive because it
was a type battle as you would have seen last
weekend at even part Do you expect both teams to
perhaps at least attempt to be a bit more expensive.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Yeah, I know I'm probably old school, but I think
before I answer you there, I think it's going to
come down to three things. I think it's going to
come down firstly to the scrum battle, and then second
is going.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
To come down to the aerial battle.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
You know, New Zealand has struggled the first fifteen minutes
and then they scored two great trials and then to
Rafca the chase and then they couldn't just kick the
ball in the.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Air and contest.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
So I think this line's done well of their team,
you know, especially the back three for the area battle.
And I think where these games are one and lost
is in the last twenty minutes when the impact players
comes on.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I think that Africa had a huge luxury you.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Know, in the way back, especially the two previous tests.
Is when they won in South Africa where the bench
they brought up was brilliant, very very much experienced guys
that could play, that could start an any these match.
You know that guys on the bench of sixty seventy
test matches new Zi learned that young guys on the
bench and still finding their feet. Suddenly South Africa also
has now more inexperienced guys on the bench and it
(04:24):
doesn't fight it as you know, as they used to.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
So I think the.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Last twenty minutes, when the fresh leaks comes on, that's
going to be the big difference.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
And I think the big.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Chance of the affic is going to be I mean,
I think Tony Brown's been brilliant. You know, they're moving
in the right direction, playing more expansive.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
But the big question mark for me is.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Going to be when they played like that against Australia,
they were valeted and then suddenly when they got tired,
makes you know, mistakes and three turners crossed them three
three tries in Australia came back. So it's going to
be a fine line between you know, trying to be
expensive and these guys can score tries. They're very very
exciting and good forwards. But again, if they the one
(05:03):
thing I've learned against the Zilian, if you make mistakes,
they're going to punish.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
So it's gonna be a fine balance. But I still think.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
It's all going to be about, you know, set piece
and pressure and suffocate.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, those those areas you mentioned fascinating to me. The
scrum and the and the aerial part of the game.
I mean you would have seen the South African scrum,
you know, when that tight hit on New Zealand's ball
which indirectly led to a try. The aerial battle, I
think most of us thought South Africa had the better
of that.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Do you expect them.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
To bomb away again tonight in Wellington? I mean it
might be a little bit windy. So do you think
they'll employ some of the tactics.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Yeah, I think it's I think they will, but I
think it will be stupid. If they picked this exciting
back line and they just want to play a tactical game,
then they probably would have gone with pol And and
Villian guys that's more used to that, and the nine
that's that's a good box kicker, like a fuff. I
think they're even gonna you know, take a cho once
play more expansive rugby, but they will always stick to
(05:59):
their DNA, you know, so they will there will there
will always.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Be aerial battle. I mean that's part of the new game.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
But I think they're going to take more chances because
they feel that you have to score tries against New Zealand.
You're not just going to defend. They're not just going
to outmuscle them. And one thing I've been very impressed,
you know, I follow New Zealand in epic battles. I've
been really impressed. Are they improved in their forwards. The
big thing that I think they've done right is South Africa.
(06:26):
If they scram well, more well, pressure and suffocate, they
win games. Suddenly New Zealants stopping the malls and I
thought this, Youleents scram well bought that one scram So
I think they've done great work with their forwards, you know,
touffing them up, scramming well, puting pressure on the set piece.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
So suddenly South Africa is a very very strong team.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
They win the set piece battle and then they force
you into mistakes. But suddenly news Leents is really improved
in their forwards, and you know, I've been really impressed
with their scrammaging battle as well lately, and I know
one scram was a bad scram, but all over, I
think they've done great work with their forwards.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
We're right in the middle of a World Cup cycle.
We're two years since the last one and two years
away from the next one. How much evolution in terms
of players in playing style do you expect from the
spring box between now and the next Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (07:19):
I think they're in a difficult cycle because a lot
of those guys that won two World Cups. You know,
I don't want to take credit, but I picked most
of those guys at twenty one two and the All
Blacks had a brilliant team. I remember we last against
two points, but most of those All Black teams had
handed test matches and they were legends of the game.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
And now that's you know, it changes.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
They got older and rebuilding and South Africa is now
where the All Blacks who are when I used to coach.
But now also, you know, do you keep these guys
for another two years and they're all going to be
thirty five and you know, probably over their best or
do you do you start pushing the youngsters, and I
think it's going to be a combination, but it's gonna
be interesting times. You know, I think he has to
(08:01):
give youngsters a chance. But again, you know, I respect
the All Blacks so much. Every Test match against them
as a battle, especially away from home. So in the
one sense, it's good giving guys chance.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
On the other side, you want.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
To pick your best team because you have to be
at your beastically going to beat the All Black So
this is going to be a very interesting test match.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
And you it's a mepic battles with the may As coach.
That narrow semi final loss at the Rugby World Cup
in twenty fifteen, does that still sting.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
A little bit?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Do you still think about that that game?
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Listen every game against New Zealand sting. We had epic battles,
and myself and Steve, you know, we tried to bring
back the mutual respect and I think it was great.
We had beers afterwards and I think we both both
old schooled and believe in the ethics of the game,
so it was great battles. I think, you know, that
was one of the best teams that ever played a game.
And you know, the last few games I think we
(08:56):
won one by two points, lost one by two, lost
other one by three. So I always felt we closed
the gap. But so much respect for that team. And
obviously every game where you present your country, you don't win.
But I always, I always knew that you have to
be at your best, and that was epic battles. You know,
I really really thought that was an amazing team and
it was just such an honor.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
You know.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
I always stood, you know, on the sidelines, facing the
half gut not to want to be on TV. I
just I've got so much respect, and you know, I
want to be.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
There and experience that.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
So I was so blessed, you know, to coach against
them not easy. I would like to prefer to to
coach against easy New Zealand teams, but you don't get
easy New Zealan teams. But yeah, we had epic battles
and the good friends a lot of those guys, and
so much respect, you know, between the two countries, and
I think that's great for the game.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Absolutely, and that respect continues between the players, the coaches
and the fans as well. At one surprise, you'll learn
there were there were thousands of South African fans there
last week mixing with the All Blacks fans, the vibe
was fantastic and we're hoping for more of the same tonight. Haneker,
has been great to get the chance to chat. Thanks
for being so generous with your time this afternoon.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
No, thank you so much. And yeah, I just hope
these battles and keep on going.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
And like you said, you know, it's such a great
to two of the best countries in the world playing
agains each other but afterwards being friends, and I think
that's what's racy is all about. And we're looking forward
to a great desk match. I think there's gonna be
a crack off a game and I can't wait. Different
you know, different things are upenning with both sides, new
jillions on the apps. That Africa has got huge challenges,
but it's gonna be it's gonna be small, small margins,
(10:28):
and I just hope we get a great, great desk
match and keep the friendship and keep the battles going.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, I'm sure we will. Honek, I'm sure we will.
Thanks again for your time, Honeck. Am I there one
of the most celebrated rugby coaches in South African History
and spring Box Coach between twenty twelve and twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to news talks b weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks edb back for.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Preston, turn Mackenzie into the stands and the All blackstaffend
the Fortress twenty four seventeen and at all time chess
match between these two nations.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, that was a week ago at Eden Park. We
go again tonight at sky Stadium. Heineke Meyer is one
of the most celebrated rugby coaches in South African history.
He was the first South African coach to win Super
Rugby with the Balls in two thousand and seven. He
was Springbox coach from twenty twelve to twenty fifteen, guiding
South Africa to third place at the twenty fifteen Rugby
World Cup. Heineka Ia joins us on the show. Heinika,
(00:51):
great to get your expertise across New Zealand. Let's go
back a week. What did you make of the spring
Box performance at Eden Park last weekend?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Yeah? Thanks? Firstly, just thank you for having me, Abbous.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
You love your country, love the All Blacks and that
epic battles, so thanks for being on your show.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yeah. I thought it was an unbelievable test match. I
was glued to my seat.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
I always knew it's gonna be very, very difficult because
especially with newziudn't losing against Argentina and with the Eden
Park record.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
But I thought it was a brilliant, brilliant Test match.
I thought this didn't really played well. I think with
the old game.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
Change for me was that when you didn't go to eat,
it's always going to be difficult for Africa to chase.
They're not a good chasing team and I just thought
the All Blacks want the small battles. I am, you know,
every small battle, especially in the rain. I thought this
landed really well and you know, put pressions in Africa
on the in the lineouts, but it all came down
(01:48):
to taking opportunities and it's always gonna be difficult if
you fought in zero down, especially away from home and
chasing in those wet conditions.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
So I thought it was an.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Awesome teste match, so Africa that well to come back,
but I wasn't.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I was involved.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
You know, I watched the previous two Test matches in
South Africa where the All Blacks was also aiding in
South Africa came back with their bench. I thought this
this time around the New Zealands show a lot of
more composure. But what the great Test match and believable
test match.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, and the best thing is we get another one
hopefully as good tonight. Interesting you mentioned the bench because
Resci Erasmus went with a five to three bench split
at Eden Park. He's done the same again tonight. Did
you think he might have gone six too, given how
effective the bomb squad tactic was in the in the
Rugby Championship in Johannesburg and Cape Town last year.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah, I think it's worked for them.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
I think with the seven one and it's too bigger
risk away from home and especially in New Zealand, I
thought a six two can work for them, and especially
I think if the game is squeak, obviously doesn't suit.
Soo Africa showed against Australia where they opened up the
game and played unbelievable rack me and then Australia came
back and beat us. But you know it just also,
I think he's got so much respect for New Zealand
(03:00):
because if you're not covered everywhere, New zident can take you,
you know, take you apart.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
But I also think he sees the backers in back
so this week's going to be a total, total different game.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
I still think they've got a good forward back, but
very exciting back.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
So it's going to be a exciting game.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Do you expect then to be more expensive because it
was a type battle as you would have seen last
weekend at even part Do you expect both teams to
perhaps at least attempt to be a bit more expensive.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Yeah, I know I'm probably old school, but I think
before I answer you there, I think it's going to
come down to three things. I think it's going to
come down firstly to the scrum battle, and then second
is going.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
To come down to the aerial battle.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
You know, New Zealand has struggled the first fifteen minutes
and then they scored two great trials and then to
Rafca the chase and then they couldn't just kick the
ball in the.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Air and contest.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
So I think this line's done well of their team,
you know, especially the back three for the area battle.
And I think where these games are one and lost
is in the last twenty minutes when the impact players
comes on.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I think that Africa had a huge luxury you.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Know, in the way back, especially the two previous tests.
Is when they won in South Africa where the bench
they brought up was brilliant, very very much experienced guys
that could play, that could start an any these match.
You know that guys on the bench of sixty seventy
test matches new Zi learned that young guys on the
bench and still finding their feet. Suddenly South Africa also
has now more inexperienced guys on the bench and it
(04:24):
doesn't fight it as you know, as they used to.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
So I think the.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Last twenty minutes, when the fresh leaks comes on, that's
going to be the big difference.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
And I think the big.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Chance of the affic is going to be I mean,
I think Tony Brown's been brilliant. You know, they're moving
in the right direction, playing more expansive.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
But the big question mark for me is.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Going to be when they played like that against Australia,
they were valeted and then suddenly when they got tired,
makes you know, mistakes and three turners crossed them three
three tries in Australia came back. So it's going to
be a fine line between you know, trying to be
expensive and these guys can score tries. They're very very
exciting and good forwards. But again, if they the one
(05:03):
thing I've learned against the Zilian, if you make mistakes,
they're going to punish.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
So it's gonna be a fine balance. But I still think.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
It's all going to be about, you know, set piece
and pressure and suffocate.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, those those areas you mentioned fascinating to me. The
scrum and the and the aerial part of the game.
I mean you would have seen the South African scrum,
you know, when that tight hit on New Zealand's ball
which indirectly led to a try. The aerial battle, I
think most of us thought South Africa had the better
of that.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Do you expect them.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
To bomb away again tonight in Wellington? I mean it
might be a little bit windy. So do you think
they'll employ some of the tactics.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Yeah, I think it's I think they will, but I
think it will be stupid. If they picked this exciting
back line and they just want to play a tactical game,
then they probably would have gone with pol And and
Villian guys that's more used to that, and the nine
that's that's a good box kicker, like a fuff. I
think they're even gonna you know, take a cho once
play more expansive rugby, but they will always stick to
(05:59):
their DNA, you know, so they will there will there
will always.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Be aerial battle. I mean that's part of the new game.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
But I think they're going to take more chances because
they feel that you have to score tries against New Zealand.
You're not just going to defend. They're not just going
to outmuscle them. And one thing I've been very impressed,
you know, I follow New Zealand in epic battles. I've
been really impressed. Are they improved in their forwards. The
big thing that I think they've done right is South Africa.
(06:26):
If they scram well, more well, pressure and suffocate, they
win games. Suddenly New Zealants stopping the malls and I
thought this, Youleents scram well bought that one scram So
I think they've done great work with their forwards, you know,
touffing them up, scramming well, puting pressure on the set piece.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
So suddenly South Africa is a very very strong team.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
They win the set piece battle and then they force
you into mistakes. But suddenly news Leents is really improved
in their forwards, and you know, I've been really impressed
with their scrammaging battle as well lately, and I know
one scram was a bad scram, but all over, I
think they've done great work with their forwards.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
We're right in the middle of a World Cup cycle.
We're two years since the last one and two years
away from the next one. How much evolution in terms
of players in playing style do you expect from the
spring box between now and the next Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (07:19):
I think they're in a difficult cycle because a lot
of those guys that won two World Cups. You know,
I don't want to take credit, but I picked most
of those guys at twenty one two and the All
Blacks had a brilliant team. I remember we last against
two points, but most of those All Black teams had
handed test matches and they were legends of the game.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
And now that's you know, it changes.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
They got older and rebuilding and South Africa is now
where the All Blacks who are when I used to coach.
But now also, you know, do you keep these guys
for another two years and they're all going to be
thirty five and you know, probably over their best or
do you do you start pushing the youngsters, and I
think it's going to be a combination, but it's gonna
be interesting times. You know, I think he has to
(08:01):
give youngsters a chance. But again, you know, I respect
the All Blacks so much. Every Test match against them
as a battle, especially away from home. So in the
one sense, it's good giving guys chance.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
On the other side, you want.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
To pick your best team because you have to be
at your beastically going to beat the All Black So
this is going to be a very interesting test match.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
And you it's a mepic battles with the may As coach.
That narrow semi final loss at the Rugby World Cup
in twenty fifteen, does that still sting.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
A little bit?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Do you still think about that that game?
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Listen every game against New Zealand sting. We had epic battles,
and myself and Steve, you know, we tried to bring
back the mutual respect and I think it was great.
We had beers afterwards and I think we both both
old schooled and believe in the ethics of the game,
so it was great battles. I think, you know, that
was one of the best teams that ever played a game.
And you know, the last few games I think we
(08:56):
won one by two points, lost one by two, lost
other one by three. So I always felt we closed
the gap. But so much respect for that team. And
obviously every game where you present your country, you don't win.
But I always, I always knew that you have to
be at your best, and that was epic battles. You know,
I really really thought that was an amazing team and
it was just such an honor.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
You know.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
I always stood, you know, on the sidelines, facing the
half gut not to want to be on TV. I
just I've got so much respect, and you know, I
want to be.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
There and experience that.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
So I was so blessed, you know, to coach against
them not easy. I would like to prefer to to
coach against easy New Zealand teams, but you don't get
easy New Zealan teams. But yeah, we had epic battles
and the good friends a lot of those guys, and
so much respect, you know, between the two countries, and
I think that's great for the game.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Absolutely, and that respect continues between the players, the coaches
and the fans as well. At one surprise, you'll learn
there were there were thousands of South African fans there
last week mixing with the All Blacks fans, the vibe
was fantastic and we're hoping for more of the same tonight. Haneker,
has been great to get the chance to chat. Thanks
for being so generous with your time this afternoon.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
No, thank you so much. And yeah, I just hope
these battles and keep on going.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
And like you said, you know, it's such a great
to two of the best countries in the world playing
agains each other but afterwards being friends, and I think
that's what's racy is all about. And we're looking forward
to a great desk match. I think there's gonna be
a crack off a game and I can't wait. Different
you know, different things are upenning with both sides, new
jillions on the apps. That Africa has got huge challenges,
but it's gonna be it's gonna be small, small margins,
(10:28):
and I just hope we get a great, great desk
match and keep the friendship and keep the battles going.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, I'm sure we will. Honek, I'm sure we will.
Thanks again for your time, Honeck. Am I there one
of the most celebrated rugby coaches in South African History
and spring Box Coach between twenty twelve and twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to news talks b weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.