November 29, 2024 • 15 mins
The All Blacks selection criteria debate rages on, with former Springboks coach Jake White warning NZR against changing their selection policy.
White joined Elliott on the show to elaborate on how it might hurt the All Blacks and whether they really need the overseas talent to stay competitive.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from newstalk edb Well.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Jack White wrote a very interesting opinion piece. You might
be able to check it out on Rugby Pass this
afternoon if you get a moment or so. Eligibility wise,
always a thorny topic when it comes to New Zealand
rugby and the All Blacks picking players from overseas or not.
It's again read its heads with All Blacks coach Scott
(00:33):
Robinson asked about it after the final game of the
Test season last week by media. He's spoken about it before,
of course, and has used the phrase he used last
week open mind or keeping an open mind before, But
this time he's going to present to the New Zealand
Rugby board arms with a bit more information, some data.
(00:54):
He's had fourteen tests in charge, of course, this year
he's coached at Test level for the first time. He's
got more evidence as to where the game is heating
and being able to pick players from overseas certainly seems
that his perspective is some ability to pet players from
off sure this, of course, with Richie Wonger currently playing
(01:15):
his rugby at Toshiba in Japan, suggestions and reports abound
that he is poised to sign with New Zealand Rugby. Again,
nothing official on that front at this point in time.
As I say, former Springbox coach Jack Whitter will cut
winning one at that writing column for Rugby Pass in
the last day or so and this line from it,
(01:37):
Scott Robinson's event would have been frustrated to have gone
down to France by a point and failed to put
away Italy after they put ninety six points on them
just over a year ago. I can understand them looking
around and saying, maybe you just bring in the overseas guys,
But I don't think that's a silver lot to solve
their desperation to retain the crown as the world's best team.
It's a colmn worth reading, but to explain more. Jake White,
(01:59):
former Springbox coach now the Bulls director of Rugby, joins
us on newstalk ZEBB this afternoon. Jake, thanks so much
for your time.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Thank you. I'm I'm glad I can join you jus.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Jake, I really enjoyed reading that piece that you wrote
for Ruggy Pass. It was thought provoking. Look, I've tried
to summarize it for our listeners, But in your own words,
perhaps explain to us why you believe that it would
be the wrong step for New Zealand rugby to open
the eligibility doors to players from abroad.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I look, I I'm old school and I and I
you know they will. It's a debate. It's a debate,
but there will be people that go, which they have been.
I've been following the bloggers and there's a lot of
you know, a lot of sentiment about come on, it's
it's in modern times. It's players can earn money, Surely
they can player this season, play for their country. I
(02:51):
just think, you know, it's not it's not but chance
that the four out of the five or father of
the top six teams don't pick foreign both players. England don't,
France don't, New Zealand don't, and Ireland don't and and
they they all can they consistently stay on the top
of world rugby. So you know, I asked myself the question,
(03:13):
and I asked a couple of guys because I knew
you were going to own me tonight. And Eliot, it's
very simple. If we had lost the quarterfinal by one point,
and I know he will won the quarter final by one,
the semi final by one, the final by one. If
we had lost the quarterfinal by one point, would the
world be following our model and saying that picking foreign
those claes is the way to go forward. And I'm
(03:33):
not so sure that that would give a model even
we'd want.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
It's focused around I guess Richie Mulwanga from a New
Zealand perspective and getting him back from overseas. But if
the doors were open and he was still playing in
Japan you could pick him from. Then it would allow
Sam Kaine, for example, to be picked. But do you
think it's a dangerous precedent to peck it on the
basis of say one player or one glas at a
certain point in history.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Well, you could have won the World Cup with Nick
Evans and you went for Stephen Donald. You so again,
someone said to me the fourth or fifth and when
you had Nick Evans playing at all, Equins was on
top of his game playing in the UK, didn't get
picked for the World Cup. Pick Stephen Donald, who was white.
They fishing ended up winning the World Cup. So you know,
it's ironic. I think that if you look, you really
(04:22):
have never had to pick foreign base players and I've
still won three World Cups, so you know, I don't
I don't think that it is my mumble opinion. I
don't think that Richie no Longer is going to make
you win the World Cup. I think you've got enough
rugby players there. And if it means that you're going
to pick rich In no Longer and Tazzelle as a
loose forward you end up winning the World Cup, well
(04:44):
then I think the problem is much deeper than you
guys foresee.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
At the top of your call, and you mentioned some
of the sacrifices rig Komba and the finger being amputated,
Buck Shelford of course in the the Stray Boots, and yes,
Sam Whitelock's grandfather, you mentioneds Well Nelson dale Zel who
was injured in the Second World Will went on to
play of the All Blacks and that sacrifice. You know,
you go overseas, you sacrifice something, and that is in
(05:12):
this case in All Blacks Jersey.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Well, you know, I mean, you know, there's a very
very easy thing to say, you've got to sacrifice, and
sacrifice has got to hurt. I mean, it's easy to say,
you know, I know, we're living in modern towth. But
I think I can't overemphasize enough that I think having
toured New Zealand many times, having what's from outside how
important the black jersey is, having read many many, you know,
(05:39):
books about how important the black jersey is, having seen
many documentaries about how important the black jerseys, I think
you open that gate and you allow foreign players that
are playing abroad to pick for your country, I think
you're going to lose something that's very, very unique in
your country. And that is the thing I think it
keeps to all blacks from outside. That's the thing that
(06:00):
I see that keeps the all blacks as competitive as
any country in any sport. You're after you, and once
you change that, I'm not convinced you you you're ever
going to get it back.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
We probably look at South Africa at the moment and go, well,
you can peck all these players from overseas, and then
the ones that are developing in US size like the
one that your director of rugby forore and gives them
a wider Paul. But do you think that's not necessarily
it's just a happenstance of Because we're at this point
in time South Africa has got the depth, it will
swing back at some other points in New Zealand other
(06:32):
countries around the world. That you know, this is just
a moment in time with the depth scenario for the
all Blacks.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
That's exactly what I think. I think it all goes
in cycles. You know, people said, oh, if it wasn't
for few players playing overseas, we wouldn't have produced the
Canaan Moodies and wouldn't have produced the youngsters that are
coming through wetly. That is very simply where did all
the young players come through in the old days? Where
did you know the alkest name on the poor villain
(07:00):
says thet the Yakas and all that come through when
we had a generation of players who never left the shores.
So I think it's one eye to suggest that because
people are playing overseas, therefore we produce better players in
South Africa. I really don't believe that that's the case.
I mean, we produce some very very good rugby players,
in fact, the best players in the world in the
(07:22):
times that no one was allowed to play over season,
no one was picked from playing overseas. So I genuinely
don't think it's one or the other.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Two thousand and seven Rugby All Cup winning coach Jake White,
who won up with the spring Box with us on
Weekend Sport, is currently the Blue Balls Director of Rugby.
Jake Obviously, there's been a lot of success for the
spring Box since they change those eligibility laws and these
circumstances dictating it around the rands and the power of
that abroad. But do you think that anyone will go Actually,
(07:52):
we need to wind this back and get our players
back playing in South Africa domestically.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Well, I'll answer your question. If there's anyone who's over
there that wanted like that, it's me. I mean, I
coach a provincial side in South Africa and we must
never kill the goose that lays the golden neck. If
it's going to be a free for all where everyone
can go overseason still playing in the national rugby, then
what happened is that the domestic rugby in our country
will die. And you know, the supporters won't put money
(08:19):
into the game, the sponsors won't put money into the game,
the supporters won't come to the games and watch live
rugby because the best players will be playing in other competitions.
So you know, we've got to be careful what we
wish for because if all the best players in New
Zealand on ever in New Zealand and they only played
for the All Blacks, well, when you're going to kill
your domestic game. And the one thing New Zealand have
managed to do with a very small population is build
(08:42):
up their grassroots, their club rugby, their schools rugby, their
university rugby, you know, even their women's rugby at the stage.
So you know, there's no doubt in my mind that
you know, once you open the gates, and I'll say
it again, you're got, you're going to lose something that's
very very special to New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Just finally, on that point, Jake, the line your ruggy
past thing is that short term gain for long term
pain because once you open that that gate, you can't
really close it, can you From a New Zealand perspective.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Well, I mean you go back and rowind the clock.
Once you put a sponse on your jersey, that was gone.
You know, you guys are one for years and years
without having to put response on the front of your
jumper and you still won World Cups. So it does work.
It does work. I think you know, I just said
to someone tonight. I knew you were going to call me,
and I was going to ask you a question. You know,
if I'd said to you ten years ago that a
(09:34):
boyfriend a matter we'd be playing for Scotland, you would
have thought I was crazy. I told you ten years
ago that Israel Filao could play for Australia and for Tonga,
you would have said, I'm crazy, you know. And that's
what happened. Is slowly but surely, we just be eroding
the thing that was so unique about our game, and
that was to play for your country in the national anthem.
And I and then I came up with an idea.
(09:56):
And I know it's completely left field, but so is
where we are now in terms of what old school
people thought. But what's to stop us from in ten
years Palm saying that everybody who plays in the Premiership
in England can play for England, and everyone who plays
in the Japanese league can play for Japan and everyone
that plays in the French league can play for France.
So if you tie WEE Fijian, Georgian and you play
(10:18):
in that league, you can play for that country. I
mean if I said that now, people would go you
lost your marble stack. You you've got no idea where
we're going. But I mean, what's changed? We we we
you know. I was. I was at Montpelier when when
Duan Famava asked me, please, I need to get out
of my contract. I need to get to Edinburgh. They've
(10:38):
ear marked me as a guy can play for Scotland.
I need to be there by the end of the year.
Otherwise I've losed a three year window. If I go
in January, I've got to wait five years. So I was.
I was part of that whole Chansfer when when he
was earmarked by the by the Scottish rugby Union to
come across. Now, I mean, that's why I wrote in
that article about you know, the foreign players as well.
(11:01):
I mean I've never I've never, probably because I've lived
in a country we have so many players a bit
like you Zealand. Maybe I would think differently if I
was in a small nation where I could go in
ahead and the best forty fifty juniors every year, put
them in academy and then bring them through for my country.
But is that is that the way it's going to go.
Is that where the minor unions are going to go
(11:21):
and start academies where they where they go and you know,
you know, get and recruit the best juniors and then
basically everything in your country is meaningless because I mean
with what you could have, you could use me example,
like like Wales if they went and got the fifteen
best Kiwi players at school level and the twenty best
South African players and thirty five players every year when
(11:42):
to go and live in Wales and in five years
time those players are then all eligible for for Wales.
I mean I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's what
I'm not sure that's what Welsh rugby in the in
the valleys and where they come from would really want
as well. So that's why I said it's a debate,
it's not it's not a view that I think everyone's
(12:03):
got an opinion. I just think that New Zealand need
to hang on to the thing they've hold so dearly
for so long. Otherwise I think that I think that
whatever they've done in the past then becomes meaningless.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Jack White with us on new Stalk hibt be Jack
before I let you go. It's an interesting point. And
your ten years time. Maybe down the track it will
be that case. Before I go, I want to get
your thoughts. You started at the start of a World
Cup cycle in two thousand and four. Scott Robertson's done
the same. What's your view on his first season and
charges as all Black seat coach?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, I think he had had met himself that coaching
test Rake me is very different to coaching a provincial
side like the Crsaders. I'm sure he's learned a lot
and you zilla Rugby will be back. I think the
one thing again, and this is why I can't. I
can't appraud you enough or praise you enough. I mean,
I've been privaged to sitting in a chains room with
Joe Hobbs and Alex Whyley and you know Brian Lahall,
(12:59):
so Brian Lahall and and you know the legends of
the game, sitting next to us in the chains room
having a debate about the Test match. I think the
one thing I think New Zealand they have got the
edge on every other country is they want to get
it right. They want to uphold all the things that
are important and they want to share whatever they have
to share to make sure that their country stays on
(13:19):
top of the world. So you know, I have no
doubt whatever they whatever mistakes they've made, whatever lessons they
need to learn, I'm sure they will learn them. I'm
sure that everyone involved in New Zealand rugby will will
contribute to them getting better. And I have no doubt
that in the next couple of years New Zealand rugby
will get strong and strong. And it won't be because
when two or three players back from overseas or play
(13:41):
them while they overseas. For the All Blacks, I still
think that their rugby culture, the whole, the whole or
everything they stand for in New Zealand rugby is much
stronger than any individual. And let's be fair, that has
been that has been the narrative that's come out of
New Zealand from day one is that no player is ever, ever, ever,
you know, stronger or ever more important than the jersey.
(14:02):
And you know long made that.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Last, Jack White, it has been a pleasure catching up
with you. Thank you very much for your thoughts and
wish you the best of luck tomorrow morning against Connaitt
New Zealand Time.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Thank you, thanks so much, all the best that.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Is Jake White joining us on News Talk zeb this afternoon.
You caught up with them in Galway, of all places,
the Blue Balls playing Connot's in the URC tomorrow morning.
Lucky enough to get some of Jake White's time. Great
to get an outsider's perspective on that eligibility. When I
saw that piece, because there's been a lot of column
inch's written this year from in New Zealand and externally
(14:39):
saying the All Blacks need to change their selection policy
and they need to pick players from Japan or wherever
else players might be playing. It was interesting to get
a World Cup winning coaches perspective from someone outside the country. He's,
as you heard there, very much against the prospect of
selecting players from abroad for the All Blacks. A specific
(15:00):
set of circumstances has led to South Africa doing it
around there economy. But he says, you know he listed
at the top, didn't he France, Ireland, England, All Blacks
don't select players from abroad.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from newstalk edb Well.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Jack White wrote a very interesting opinion piece. You might
be able to check it out on Rugby Pass this
afternoon if you get a moment or so. Eligibility wise,
always a thorny topic when it comes to New Zealand
rugby and the All Blacks picking players from overseas or not.
It's again read its heads with All Blacks coach Scott
(00:33):
Robinson asked about it after the final game of the
Test season last week by media. He's spoken about it before,
of course, and has used the phrase he used last
week open mind or keeping an open mind before, But
this time he's going to present to the New Zealand
Rugby board arms with a bit more information, some data.
(00:54):
He's had fourteen tests in charge, of course, this year
he's coached at Test level for the first time. He's
got more evidence as to where the game is heating
and being able to pick players from overseas certainly seems
that his perspective is some ability to pet players from
off sure this, of course, with Richie Wonger currently playing
(01:15):
his rugby at Toshiba in Japan, suggestions and reports abound
that he is poised to sign with New Zealand Rugby. Again,
nothing official on that front at this point in time.
As I say, former Springbox coach Jack Whitter will cut
winning one at that writing column for Rugby Pass in
the last day or so and this line from it,
(01:37):
Scott Robinson's event would have been frustrated to have gone
down to France by a point and failed to put
away Italy after they put ninety six points on them
just over a year ago. I can understand them looking
around and saying, maybe you just bring in the overseas guys,
But I don't think that's a silver lot to solve
their desperation to retain the crown as the world's best team.
It's a colmn worth reading, but to explain more. Jake White,
(01:59):
former Springbox coach now the Bulls director of Rugby, joins
us on newstalk ZEBB this afternoon. Jake, thanks so much
for your time.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Thank you. I'm I'm glad I can join you jus.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Jake, I really enjoyed reading that piece that you wrote
for Ruggy Pass. It was thought provoking. Look, I've tried
to summarize it for our listeners, But in your own words,
perhaps explain to us why you believe that it would
be the wrong step for New Zealand rugby to open
the eligibility doors to players from abroad.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I look, I I'm old school and I and I
you know they will. It's a debate. It's a debate,
but there will be people that go, which they have been.
I've been following the bloggers and there's a lot of
you know, a lot of sentiment about come on, it's
it's in modern times. It's players can earn money, Surely
they can player this season, play for their country. I
(02:51):
just think, you know, it's not it's not but chance
that the four out of the five or father of
the top six teams don't pick foreign both players. England don't,
France don't, New Zealand don't, and Ireland don't and and
they they all can they consistently stay on the top
of world rugby. So you know, I asked myself the question,
(03:13):
and I asked a couple of guys because I knew
you were going to own me tonight. And Eliot, it's
very simple. If we had lost the quarterfinal by one point,
and I know he will won the quarter final by one,
the semi final by one, the final by one. If
we had lost the quarterfinal by one point, would the
world be following our model and saying that picking foreign
those claes is the way to go forward. And I'm
(03:33):
not so sure that that would give a model even
we'd want.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
It's focused around I guess Richie Mulwanga from a New
Zealand perspective and getting him back from overseas. But if
the doors were open and he was still playing in
Japan you could pick him from. Then it would allow
Sam Kaine, for example, to be picked. But do you
think it's a dangerous precedent to peck it on the
basis of say one player or one glas at a
certain point in history.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Well, you could have won the World Cup with Nick
Evans and you went for Stephen Donald. You so again,
someone said to me the fourth or fifth and when
you had Nick Evans playing at all, Equins was on
top of his game playing in the UK, didn't get
picked for the World Cup. Pick Stephen Donald, who was white.
They fishing ended up winning the World Cup. So you know,
it's ironic. I think that if you look, you really
(04:22):
have never had to pick foreign base players and I've
still won three World Cups, so you know, I don't
I don't think that it is my mumble opinion. I
don't think that Richie no Longer is going to make
you win the World Cup. I think you've got enough
rugby players there. And if it means that you're going
to pick rich In no Longer and Tazzelle as a
loose forward you end up winning the World Cup, well
(04:44):
then I think the problem is much deeper than you
guys foresee.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
At the top of your call, and you mentioned some
of the sacrifices rig Komba and the finger being amputated,
Buck Shelford of course in the the Stray Boots, and yes,
Sam Whitelock's grandfather, you mentioneds Well Nelson dale Zel who
was injured in the Second World Will went on to
play of the All Blacks and that sacrifice. You know,
you go overseas, you sacrifice something, and that is in
(05:12):
this case in All Blacks Jersey.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Well, you know, I mean, you know, there's a very
very easy thing to say, you've got to sacrifice, and
sacrifice has got to hurt. I mean, it's easy to say,
you know, I know, we're living in modern towth. But
I think I can't overemphasize enough that I think having
toured New Zealand many times, having what's from outside how
important the black jersey is, having read many many, you know,
(05:39):
books about how important the black jersey is, having seen
many documentaries about how important the black jerseys, I think
you open that gate and you allow foreign players that
are playing abroad to pick for your country, I think
you're going to lose something that's very, very unique in
your country. And that is the thing I think it
keeps to all blacks from outside. That's the thing that
(06:00):
I see that keeps the all blacks as competitive as
any country in any sport. You're after you, and once
you change that, I'm not convinced you you you're ever
going to get it back.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
We probably look at South Africa at the moment and go, well,
you can peck all these players from overseas, and then
the ones that are developing in US size like the
one that your director of rugby forore and gives them
a wider Paul. But do you think that's not necessarily
it's just a happenstance of Because we're at this point
in time South Africa has got the depth, it will
swing back at some other points in New Zealand other
(06:32):
countries around the world. That you know, this is just
a moment in time with the depth scenario for the
all Blacks.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
That's exactly what I think. I think it all goes
in cycles. You know, people said, oh, if it wasn't
for few players playing overseas, we wouldn't have produced the
Canaan Moodies and wouldn't have produced the youngsters that are
coming through wetly. That is very simply where did all
the young players come through in the old days? Where
did you know the alkest name on the poor villain
(07:00):
says thet the Yakas and all that come through when
we had a generation of players who never left the shores.
So I think it's one eye to suggest that because
people are playing overseas, therefore we produce better players in
South Africa. I really don't believe that that's the case.
I mean, we produce some very very good rugby players,
in fact, the best players in the world in the
(07:22):
times that no one was allowed to play over season,
no one was picked from playing overseas. So I genuinely
don't think it's one or the other.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Two thousand and seven Rugby All Cup winning coach Jake White,
who won up with the spring Box with us on
Weekend Sport, is currently the Blue Balls Director of Rugby.
Jake Obviously, there's been a lot of success for the
spring Box since they change those eligibility laws and these
circumstances dictating it around the rands and the power of
that abroad. But do you think that anyone will go Actually,
(07:52):
we need to wind this back and get our players
back playing in South Africa domestically.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Well, I'll answer your question. If there's anyone who's over
there that wanted like that, it's me. I mean, I
coach a provincial side in South Africa and we must
never kill the goose that lays the golden neck. If
it's going to be a free for all where everyone
can go overseason still playing in the national rugby, then
what happened is that the domestic rugby in our country
will die. And you know, the supporters won't put money
(08:19):
into the game, the sponsors won't put money into the game,
the supporters won't come to the games and watch live
rugby because the best players will be playing in other competitions.
So you know, we've got to be careful what we
wish for because if all the best players in New
Zealand on ever in New Zealand and they only played
for the All Blacks, well, when you're going to kill
your domestic game. And the one thing New Zealand have
managed to do with a very small population is build
(08:42):
up their grassroots, their club rugby, their schools rugby, their
university rugby, you know, even their women's rugby at the stage.
So you know, there's no doubt in my mind that
you know, once you open the gates, and I'll say
it again, you're got, you're going to lose something that's
very very special to New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Just finally, on that point, Jake, the line your ruggy
past thing is that short term gain for long term
pain because once you open that that gate, you can't
really close it, can you From a New Zealand perspective.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Well, I mean you go back and rowind the clock.
Once you put a sponse on your jersey, that was gone.
You know, you guys are one for years and years
without having to put response on the front of your
jumper and you still won World Cups. So it does work.
It does work. I think you know, I just said
to someone tonight. I knew you were going to call me,
and I was going to ask you a question. You know,
if I'd said to you ten years ago that a
(09:34):
boyfriend a matter we'd be playing for Scotland, you would
have thought I was crazy. I told you ten years
ago that Israel Filao could play for Australia and for Tonga,
you would have said, I'm crazy, you know. And that's
what happened. Is slowly but surely, we just be eroding
the thing that was so unique about our game, and
that was to play for your country in the national anthem.
And I and then I came up with an idea.
(09:56):
And I know it's completely left field, but so is
where we are now in terms of what old school
people thought. But what's to stop us from in ten
years Palm saying that everybody who plays in the Premiership
in England can play for England, and everyone who plays
in the Japanese league can play for Japan and everyone
that plays in the French league can play for France.
So if you tie WEE Fijian, Georgian and you play
(10:18):
in that league, you can play for that country. I
mean if I said that now, people would go you
lost your marble stack. You you've got no idea where
we're going. But I mean, what's changed? We we we
you know. I was. I was at Montpelier when when
Duan Famava asked me, please, I need to get out
of my contract. I need to get to Edinburgh. They've
(10:38):
ear marked me as a guy can play for Scotland.
I need to be there by the end of the year.
Otherwise I've losed a three year window. If I go
in January, I've got to wait five years. So I was.
I was part of that whole Chansfer when when he
was earmarked by the by the Scottish rugby Union to
come across. Now, I mean, that's why I wrote in
that article about you know, the foreign players as well.
(11:01):
I mean I've never I've never, probably because I've lived
in a country we have so many players a bit
like you Zealand. Maybe I would think differently if I
was in a small nation where I could go in
ahead and the best forty fifty juniors every year, put
them in academy and then bring them through for my country.
But is that is that the way it's going to go.
Is that where the minor unions are going to go
(11:21):
and start academies where they where they go and you know,
you know, get and recruit the best juniors and then
basically everything in your country is meaningless because I mean
with what you could have, you could use me example,
like like Wales if they went and got the fifteen
best Kiwi players at school level and the twenty best
South African players and thirty five players every year when
(11:42):
to go and live in Wales and in five years
time those players are then all eligible for for Wales.
I mean I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's what
I'm not sure that's what Welsh rugby in the in
the valleys and where they come from would really want
as well. So that's why I said it's a debate,
it's not it's not a view that I think everyone's
(12:03):
got an opinion. I just think that New Zealand need
to hang on to the thing they've hold so dearly
for so long. Otherwise I think that I think that
whatever they've done in the past then becomes meaningless.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Jack White with us on new Stalk hibt be Jack
before I let you go. It's an interesting point. And
your ten years time. Maybe down the track it will
be that case. Before I go, I want to get
your thoughts. You started at the start of a World
Cup cycle in two thousand and four. Scott Robertson's done
the same. What's your view on his first season and
charges as all Black seat coach?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, I think he had had met himself that coaching
test Rake me is very different to coaching a provincial
side like the Crsaders. I'm sure he's learned a lot
and you zilla Rugby will be back. I think the
one thing again, and this is why I can't. I
can't appraud you enough or praise you enough. I mean,
I've been privaged to sitting in a chains room with
Joe Hobbs and Alex Whyley and you know Brian Lahall,
(12:59):
so Brian Lahall and and you know the legends of
the game, sitting next to us in the chains room
having a debate about the Test match. I think the
one thing I think New Zealand they have got the
edge on every other country is they want to get
it right. They want to uphold all the things that
are important and they want to share whatever they have
to share to make sure that their country stays on
(13:19):
top of the world. So you know, I have no
doubt whatever they whatever mistakes they've made, whatever lessons they
need to learn, I'm sure they will learn them. I'm
sure that everyone involved in New Zealand rugby will will
contribute to them getting better. And I have no doubt
that in the next couple of years New Zealand rugby
will get strong and strong. And it won't be because
when two or three players back from overseas or play
(13:41):
them while they overseas. For the All Blacks, I still
think that their rugby culture, the whole, the whole or
everything they stand for in New Zealand rugby is much
stronger than any individual. And let's be fair, that has
been that has been the narrative that's come out of
New Zealand from day one is that no player is ever, ever, ever,
you know, stronger or ever more important than the jersey.
(14:02):
And you know long made that.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Last, Jack White, it has been a pleasure catching up
with you. Thank you very much for your thoughts and
wish you the best of luck tomorrow morning against Connaitt
New Zealand Time.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Thank you, thanks so much, all the best that.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Is Jake White joining us on News Talk zeb this afternoon.
You caught up with them in Galway, of all places,
the Blue Balls playing Connot's in the URC tomorrow morning.
Lucky enough to get some of Jake White's time. Great
to get an outsider's perspective on that eligibility. When I
saw that piece, because there's been a lot of column
inch's written this year from in New Zealand and externally
(14:39):
saying the All Blacks need to change their selection policy
and they need to pick players from Japan or wherever
else players might be playing. It was interesting to get
a World Cup winning coaches perspective from someone outside the country. He's,
as you heard there, very much against the prospect of
selecting players from abroad for the All Blacks. A specific
(15:00):
set of circumstances has led to South Africa doing it
around there economy. But he says, you know he listed
at the top, didn't he France, Ireland, England, All Blacks
don't select players from abroad.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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