May 9, 2025 • 13 mins
The British and Irish Lions touring squad to Australia has been named.
The inclusion of 20-year-old Henry Pollock raised eyebrows, the traditional bolter only having played 30 minutes of test rugby.
BBC Rugby Commentator James Burridge joined Piney to discuss the squad.
“He talks a very good game, but he can talk it as well.”
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Northampton's twenty year old loose forward Henry Pollock is the
bolt in the British and Irish Lions touring squad for
Australia in July and August.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Change those extra few meters Tyler hit that line, perfecting
Henry target us go.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And that burgeoning refut Jason grows and grows.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
There's the celebration for t less.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
If I'm wondering what all the talk is above, just
sit back and look, and there's a brilliant, brilliant line.
He packed himself to beat Prendergast on the out side.
Prendergasta's be disabineded with attack of effort, but this guy
has pass, he has power and he has the confidence
to pluck his ears back and go for it. Watch
the response here. Twenty years of age.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, he only turned twenty in January, Henry Pollock and
had played only one Premiership game before the start of
the season. Let's bring in the BBC's James Burridge to
talk more about this. Let's start with Henry Pollock, shall we. James.
I know you've spent a bit of time with him
today doing some media after his naming in the squad.
Was his selection a surprise? Is he a balter in
(01:23):
the true sense of that word.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
In a funny sort of way, Jason, I think we
were expecting it. Yes, he's a bolster in the traditional sense.
He's someone who only made his debut for his club
last year. This time last year he was playing in
the under twenties. He's played thirty minutes of Test rugby,
played outstanding the Wealth Northampton the Championshi Cup last week.
(01:48):
And the thing about Henry is that he talks a
very good game, but he can walk it as well.
Like when he made his Test debut for England, he
went to Tommy Freeman and went, I'm going to score
a try on my debut and I'm going to score
it on the wing. And that's exactly what he did.
And whenever you watch Henry talk about it, watch some
of the footage which is really insightful with him. The
(02:10):
way he communicates. He's not backwards about coming forwards. He
believes in his ability to change games, to dictate games,
and he backs it up every time that it would
be different if he talked a great game and then
got sent off or missed the tackle or dropped a
ball or gave away a penalty. And he hasn't really
(02:32):
done that. He's backed it up game after game he's
got better. So at the moment he's on an upward
trajectory and Andy Farrell couldn't not pick him. So, yes,
he is a bolter, but he's not because he's been
getting better every week.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
If you see what I mean, I know exactly what
you mean. Yeah, sometimes people just present an irresistible case.
Or what's he like is he is confident off the
grass as he clearly is on it.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
He is confident. He's a great lad. He's very polite. Yes,
he's a bit brash. Yes he's a bit loud. Some
of it's front, frankly. Part of it is this insatiable
character that he has. He comes from a great family
his and you know, sport is in their blood. His
(03:17):
mum was a massive triathlete and when he was a kid,
she would be getting up him, his sisters, his brother
angers at ridiculous times in the morning to do you know,
Paul sprints at five six am in the morning and
they'd be doing that three or four times a week
before they did anything else, before they went to school,
before they went into rugby training. You know, his brother's
(03:40):
a golfer, a very good golfer, his sisters a sprinter
for the sprinter, and Pollock's based level of fitness as
a result of all of this is unbelievably high because
of the training he did with his his brother, his
when his mum. That's why if you look at the
way he scores his tries, his athleticism, his fitness is
(04:01):
ridiculous because of his because of what he did as
a kid. There's a lesson here. I think if you
want your kids to be really fighting fit and have
a really good base level of fitness and be a triathletes,
because that's what Henry was.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Fantastic. Well, I want to talk about some of the
others who run this thirty eight man squad in a moment,
but you often look at those who haven't made it,
who are the unluckiest players.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I think Darty Graham, the Scotland wing, will probably feel
a bit hard done by mack Hanson, has been selected.
Great player mack Hanson obviously you guys know them well
down under. But Darcy Graham, he does have. The Lions
don't have bags of insatiable pace, if you know what
(04:49):
I mean. They don't have ludicrous pace in their back three.
They I mean Tommy Freeman, you and Vander Murder, James Layer,
they're all quick. Darty Graham, he's agile, quick, he's got
incredible footwork. I think are the great wingers like Jason
Robinson for the lines down the years, not comparing him
with Darty Graham. But Darty Greham will feel hard done
(05:10):
by that he hasn't been selected. I think maybe you
know George Ford potentially, you know he's about to win
one hundred caps for England, but he's never gone on
a Lions tour and they've gone with Finn Smith, Finn
Russell and Marcus Smith as that potential third ten stroke fifteen.
So I suppose George Fall will be frustrated up there.
(05:31):
Jack Willis potentially, I mean, he's playing in rugby in
France to lose. I think it was always going to
be difficult because there's so much competition in that back row.
But I suppose off the top of my head I
would go Darty Greham. And the point is we're still
quite early in the process. It was still six weeks
away from that first game. Also, I think it is
so there's still a chance for this tour to change,
(05:53):
for the composition of the squad to change. I think
the average is five or six players get injured anyway,
So even though this toll party's been announced by Farrell,
come that first Test against Argentina and Dublin and then
the trip down Under to Australia, this squad could look
very different.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Excuse me, Liz Zoman. On the fly House, you mentioned
Dathan Smith and MICUs Smith out of England and Scotland's
Fan Russell. Do you like that mix of teams?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
I mean he was spoiled for choice in a way. Farrell.
I still think his son could play a part in
this as well. Owen. I mean he's not he hasn't
played the game time yet. For me, I think Finn
Smith is the starting ten. I think he's proven, he's got,
he is in ridiculous form, He's confident and again I
(06:42):
talk about upwards trajectory, I think he's on that right now.
I don't think Finn Russell had the best six nations.
He hasn't been tearing it for Bath. I think the
next month will be fascinating because Barth will be going
for a Premiership title and Finns Northampton Sayings are going
for a European champions Cup title. How will those two
individuals fare over the next month. Russell's obviously got stock,
(07:06):
haven't he? He's an incredible player, extremely gifted. But I
think form is really fascinating and it's also interering how
he'll do whichever nine they picked. Do they go for Mitchell,
do they go for Gibson Park That partnership is key,
and who's going to be the twelve? I think the
choice of twelve will be fascinating. Will they go to
(07:26):
a pilot too? Will they go Bundy? Aki? All these partnerships,
because you know there's a few games, it almost feels
a bit like a preseason tour. Before they played the
first Test, I played six or seven tests. How they
gel with each other at nine, ten and twelve I
think will be really interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Do you just even listening to your talk about those
players and looking at this, at this list of the
riches at the hit the disposal of the coaching staff.
But I do note and you will have too, just
the two Welsh players in the thirty eight that is
a low for a Lions tour in the modern era.
That must sting. And I guess it's a sign of
the times at the moment, but that must stinger Rugby
(08:06):
mad Nation like Wiles does it?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
You bet it does. Yeah, it's really painful to see.
I think even in recent times, you know that you
have the Jamie Roberts of the world, Mike Fellers that
you know, the George North, the battle that Lord have
with Israel fell out. I mean for recent lines fans,
that was box office And there's two players going and
(08:30):
if we're honest, Thomas Williams is probably at this stage
third in the pecking order. Might break through, but you
don't know, and injuries might play a part in this.
Jack Morgan was simply outstanding in the Six Nations the
World with a losing team, he played brilliantly. He deserves
to be on that tour, so as Williams. He's shown
incredible injection of pace and creativity and a girl at scrumhalf.
(08:53):
But yeah, it's it's painful, isn't it. I mean, Falatoo
didn't make the cuts. He did actually play pretty well
during the Six Nations, but you know, it's interesting that
Farrell hasn't got too many number eight at his dispose. Okay,
Doris is injured out of the tour altogether, but yeah,
it's sad that there's any two Welsh players going. There's
no other word for it. Really.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
You mentioned Kyle of Doris there. I guess he would
have been a captaincy candidate as well had he been
fit to tour. Marotji is the skipper. Is that a
popular choice?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
I think it was. It wasn't it was the only choice.
I think it was just a blatantly obvious choice. Staring
Andy Farrell in the face. I think he probably would
have gone with He probably would have gone with Toji regardless.
I think Toji's got a lot of experienced third lines
tour captain for his club, captain for his country, and
(09:45):
he's got the respects in the backing, not just of
the England players but those those others around him. And
I think he's really he's matured. I think he admitted
to himself that the Lioness announcement yesterday, he's less naive
and he's seen it all now, Maritoji, and he's this
there's a real sense of calmness about a Tooji. One
thing he does do is he will the full eighty minutes.
(10:07):
There's always been this fascinating kind of reflection on players,
do they actually last eighty minutes? England have had this
problem that one of the reasons Jamie George actually lost
the England captain to you wasn't actually played the full
eighty minute. And it's often in those last ten that
you need that leadership, you need that understanding. And now
(10:27):
Maritoji is also very good communicated with the referees and
we've seen in test matches down the years how how
fundamental that is.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Well, the squad's been named. We look forward to having
the British and Irish lines down in our part of
the world, just across the Tasman. What would the general
expectations be for the British and Irish lines in Australia,
James would a three nil series will be expected?
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Well, a year ago, I think many people perceive wisdom
was yeah, that would be the expectation. But obviously what
Joe Schmidtz now been able to produce in that last
twelve months has been fastating to watch, great to see
because you want to see a really strong performing Wallaby's team,
don't you You want to be able to what they
did against England just demonstrated that you cannot take them,
(11:17):
You can't be complacent against them. I think complacency is
a big watch word for the Lions because yes, they'll
be going down Under. But Joe Schmidt is one of
the the He's got one of the best tactical brains
in the game, hasn't he. I just remember when he
was back, you know, coaching the All Blacks against Arland
in the World Cup. Just how he unpicks them then.
(11:38):
And I'm sure he'll have some tricks up his sleeve,
particularly against Andy Farrell's Lions team as well. So tour
victory first and foremost, that's what you want. If it's
three mil, that's absolutely fantastic. But I don't think you
can take anything for granted.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
That is certainly the message that Farrell is saying to
mauth Water and prospect when this team, as you say,
play Argentina first and then he'd down Under for Australia. James,
always appreciate your time and expertise. Thanks for joining us
across New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Is always greatest, BGJAS, all the best now, all the best.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
To you too, mate, James Burridge, there are out of
the BBC with a breakdown of the thirty eight man
squad that's going to tour Australia. As you heard James
mentioned there, they've got a game against the Argentinian side
first before they come down and then you look at
their schedule. That game against Argentina is on Saturday June
twenty one. That's New Zealand times seven in the morning.
(12:32):
Then they come down to Australia. They take on the
Force in Perth as their first game. Then they head
across to Brisbane to take on the Reds, then the Wara, Tarzan, Sydney,
the Brumbies and Cameras, so they play all four Super
Rugby sides. Then that Australia New Zealand Invitational side that
(12:54):
we still don't really know the makeup of, but looking
forward to seeing a few non all black New Zealanders
in that. And then it's into the Test matches, the
first of which on the evening of Saturday July the
nineteenth at some Corpse Stadium in Brisbane. Then they play
First Nations and PACIFICA fifteen two or three days later.
(13:14):
The second Test is at the mcg on the night
of Saturday July twenty six, and the tour wraps at
a Core Stadium in Sydney on Saturday August. The second look,
I mean again, no skin in this game. I don't
support Australia, I don't support the British and Irish lines,
but goodness me, I'm in front of the TV for
those games, and not just the Test matches but the
(13:36):
other ones as well. You look at the British and
Irish Lions touring side, especially in the backs cheap as,
there are some riches for Andy Farrell to select from.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk ZEDB weekends from midday or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Northampton's twenty year old loose forward Henry Pollock is the
bolt in the British and Irish Lions touring squad for
Australia in July and August.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Change those extra few meters Tyler hit that line, perfecting
Henry target us go.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And that burgeoning refut Jason grows and grows.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
There's the celebration for t less.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
If I'm wondering what all the talk is above, just
sit back and look, and there's a brilliant, brilliant line.
He packed himself to beat Prendergast on the out side.
Prendergasta's be disabineded with attack of effort, but this guy
has pass, he has power and he has the confidence
to pluck his ears back and go for it. Watch
the response here. Twenty years of age.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, he only turned twenty in January, Henry Pollock and
had played only one Premiership game before the start of
the season. Let's bring in the BBC's James Burridge to
talk more about this. Let's start with Henry Pollock, shall we. James.
I know you've spent a bit of time with him
today doing some media after his naming in the squad.
Was his selection a surprise? Is he a balter in
(01:23):
the true sense of that word.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
In a funny sort of way, Jason, I think we
were expecting it. Yes, he's a bolster in the traditional sense.
He's someone who only made his debut for his club
last year. This time last year he was playing in
the under twenties. He's played thirty minutes of Test rugby,
played outstanding the Wealth Northampton the Championshi Cup last week.
(01:48):
And the thing about Henry is that he talks a
very good game, but he can walk it as well.
Like when he made his Test debut for England, he
went to Tommy Freeman and went, I'm going to score
a try on my debut and I'm going to score
it on the wing. And that's exactly what he did.
And whenever you watch Henry talk about it, watch some
of the footage which is really insightful with him. The
(02:10):
way he communicates. He's not backwards about coming forwards. He
believes in his ability to change games, to dictate games,
and he backs it up every time that it would
be different if he talked a great game and then
got sent off or missed the tackle or dropped a
ball or gave away a penalty. And he hasn't really
(02:32):
done that. He's backed it up game after game he's
got better. So at the moment he's on an upward
trajectory and Andy Farrell couldn't not pick him. So, yes,
he is a bolter, but he's not because he's been
getting better every week.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
If you see what I mean, I know exactly what
you mean. Yeah, sometimes people just present an irresistible case.
Or what's he like is he is confident off the
grass as he clearly is on it.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
He is confident. He's a great lad. He's very polite. Yes,
he's a bit brash. Yes he's a bit loud. Some
of it's front, frankly. Part of it is this insatiable
character that he has. He comes from a great family
his and you know, sport is in their blood. His
(03:17):
mum was a massive triathlete and when he was a kid,
she would be getting up him, his sisters, his brother
angers at ridiculous times in the morning to do you know,
Paul sprints at five six am in the morning and
they'd be doing that three or four times a week
before they did anything else, before they went to school,
before they went into rugby training. You know, his brother's
(03:40):
a golfer, a very good golfer, his sisters a sprinter
for the sprinter, and Pollock's based level of fitness as
a result of all of this is unbelievably high because
of the training he did with his his brother, his
when his mum. That's why if you look at the
way he scores his tries, his athleticism, his fitness is
(04:01):
ridiculous because of his because of what he did as
a kid. There's a lesson here. I think if you
want your kids to be really fighting fit and have
a really good base level of fitness and be a triathletes,
because that's what Henry was.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Fantastic. Well, I want to talk about some of the
others who run this thirty eight man squad in a moment,
but you often look at those who haven't made it,
who are the unluckiest players.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I think Darty Graham, the Scotland wing, will probably feel
a bit hard done by mack Hanson, has been selected.
Great player mack Hanson obviously you guys know them well
down under. But Darcy Graham, he does have. The Lions
don't have bags of insatiable pace, if you know what
(04:49):
I mean. They don't have ludicrous pace in their back three.
They I mean Tommy Freeman, you and Vander Murder, James Layer,
they're all quick. Darty Graham, he's agile, quick, he's got
incredible footwork. I think are the great wingers like Jason
Robinson for the lines down the years, not comparing him
with Darty Graham. But Darty Greham will feel hard done
(05:10):
by that he hasn't been selected. I think maybe you
know George Ford potentially, you know he's about to win
one hundred caps for England, but he's never gone on
a Lions tour and they've gone with Finn Smith, Finn
Russell and Marcus Smith as that potential third ten stroke fifteen.
So I suppose George Fall will be frustrated up there.
(05:31):
Jack Willis potentially, I mean, he's playing in rugby in
France to lose. I think it was always going to
be difficult because there's so much competition in that back row.
But I suppose off the top of my head I
would go Darty Greham. And the point is we're still
quite early in the process. It was still six weeks
away from that first game. Also, I think it is
so there's still a chance for this tour to change,
(05:53):
for the composition of the squad to change. I think
the average is five or six players get injured anyway,
So even though this toll party's been announced by Farrell,
come that first Test against Argentina and Dublin and then
the trip down Under to Australia, this squad could look
very different.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Excuse me, Liz Zoman. On the fly House, you mentioned
Dathan Smith and MICUs Smith out of England and Scotland's
Fan Russell. Do you like that mix of teams?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
I mean he was spoiled for choice in a way. Farrell.
I still think his son could play a part in
this as well. Owen. I mean he's not he hasn't
played the game time yet. For me, I think Finn
Smith is the starting ten. I think he's proven, he's got,
he is in ridiculous form, He's confident and again I
(06:42):
talk about upwards trajectory, I think he's on that right now.
I don't think Finn Russell had the best six nations.
He hasn't been tearing it for Bath. I think the
next month will be fascinating because Barth will be going
for a Premiership title and Finns Northampton Sayings are going
for a European champions Cup title. How will those two
individuals fare over the next month. Russell's obviously got stock,
(07:06):
haven't he? He's an incredible player, extremely gifted. But I
think form is really fascinating and it's also interering how
he'll do whichever nine they picked. Do they go for Mitchell,
do they go for Gibson Park That partnership is key,
and who's going to be the twelve? I think the
choice of twelve will be fascinating. Will they go to
(07:26):
a pilot too? Will they go Bundy? Aki? All these partnerships,
because you know there's a few games, it almost feels
a bit like a preseason tour. Before they played the
first Test, I played six or seven tests. How they
gel with each other at nine, ten and twelve I
think will be really interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Do you just even listening to your talk about those
players and looking at this, at this list of the
riches at the hit the disposal of the coaching staff.
But I do note and you will have too, just
the two Welsh players in the thirty eight that is
a low for a Lions tour in the modern era.
That must sting. And I guess it's a sign of
the times at the moment, but that must stinger Rugby
(08:06):
mad Nation like Wiles does it?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
You bet it does. Yeah, it's really painful to see.
I think even in recent times, you know that you
have the Jamie Roberts of the world, Mike Fellers that
you know, the George North, the battle that Lord have
with Israel fell out. I mean for recent lines fans,
that was box office And there's two players going and
(08:30):
if we're honest, Thomas Williams is probably at this stage
third in the pecking order. Might break through, but you
don't know, and injuries might play a part in this.
Jack Morgan was simply outstanding in the Six Nations the
World with a losing team, he played brilliantly. He deserves
to be on that tour, so as Williams. He's shown
incredible injection of pace and creativity and a girl at scrumhalf.
(08:53):
But yeah, it's it's painful, isn't it. I mean, Falatoo
didn't make the cuts. He did actually play pretty well
during the Six Nations, but you know, it's interesting that
Farrell hasn't got too many number eight at his dispose. Okay,
Doris is injured out of the tour altogether, but yeah,
it's sad that there's any two Welsh players going. There's
no other word for it. Really.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
You mentioned Kyle of Doris there. I guess he would
have been a captaincy candidate as well had he been
fit to tour. Marotji is the skipper. Is that a
popular choice?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
I think it was. It wasn't it was the only choice.
I think it was just a blatantly obvious choice. Staring
Andy Farrell in the face. I think he probably would
have gone with He probably would have gone with Toji regardless.
I think Toji's got a lot of experienced third lines
tour captain for his club, captain for his country, and
(09:45):
he's got the respects in the backing, not just of
the England players but those those others around him. And
I think he's really he's matured. I think he admitted
to himself that the Lioness announcement yesterday, he's less naive
and he's seen it all now, Maritoji, and he's this
there's a real sense of calmness about a Tooji. One
thing he does do is he will the full eighty minutes.
(10:07):
There's always been this fascinating kind of reflection on players,
do they actually last eighty minutes? England have had this
problem that one of the reasons Jamie George actually lost
the England captain to you wasn't actually played the full
eighty minute. And it's often in those last ten that
you need that leadership, you need that understanding. And now
(10:27):
Maritoji is also very good communicated with the referees and
we've seen in test matches down the years how how
fundamental that is.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Well, the squad's been named. We look forward to having
the British and Irish lines down in our part of
the world, just across the Tasman. What would the general
expectations be for the British and Irish lines in Australia,
James would a three nil series will be expected?
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Well, a year ago, I think many people perceive wisdom
was yeah, that would be the expectation. But obviously what
Joe Schmidtz now been able to produce in that last
twelve months has been fastating to watch, great to see
because you want to see a really strong performing Wallaby's team,
don't you You want to be able to what they
did against England just demonstrated that you cannot take them,
(11:17):
You can't be complacent against them. I think complacency is
a big watch word for the Lions because yes, they'll
be going down Under. But Joe Schmidt is one of
the the He's got one of the best tactical brains
in the game, hasn't he. I just remember when he
was back, you know, coaching the All Blacks against Arland
in the World Cup. Just how he unpicks them then.
(11:38):
And I'm sure he'll have some tricks up his sleeve,
particularly against Andy Farrell's Lions team as well. So tour
victory first and foremost, that's what you want. If it's
three mil, that's absolutely fantastic. But I don't think you
can take anything for granted.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
That is certainly the message that Farrell is saying to
mauth Water and prospect when this team, as you say,
play Argentina first and then he'd down Under for Australia. James,
always appreciate your time and expertise. Thanks for joining us
across New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Is always greatest, BGJAS, all the best now, all the best.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
To you too, mate, James Burridge, there are out of
the BBC with a breakdown of the thirty eight man
squad that's going to tour Australia. As you heard James
mentioned there, they've got a game against the Argentinian side
first before they come down and then you look at
their schedule. That game against Argentina is on Saturday June
twenty one. That's New Zealand times seven in the morning.
(12:32):
Then they come down to Australia. They take on the
Force in Perth as their first game. Then they head
across to Brisbane to take on the Reds, then the Wara, Tarzan, Sydney,
the Brumbies and Cameras, so they play all four Super
Rugby sides. Then that Australia New Zealand Invitational side that
(12:54):
we still don't really know the makeup of, but looking
forward to seeing a few non all black New Zealanders
in that. And then it's into the Test matches, the
first of which on the evening of Saturday July the
nineteenth at some Corpse Stadium in Brisbane. Then they play
First Nations and PACIFICA fifteen two or three days later.
(13:14):
The second Test is at the mcg on the night
of Saturday July twenty six, and the tour wraps at
a Core Stadium in Sydney on Saturday August. The second look,
I mean again, no skin in this game. I don't
support Australia, I don't support the British and Irish lines,
but goodness me, I'm in front of the TV for
those games, and not just the Test matches but the
(13:36):
other ones as well. You look at the British and
Irish Lions touring side, especially in the backs cheap as,
there are some riches for Andy Farrell to select from.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
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