Kevin Carter: Rongotai College Principal on year 14s playing on school sports teams

Marlborough Boy’s College has made headlines once more, this time for the number of “year 14s” in its First XV team. 

One of the top rugby schools in the South Island, the team has five year 14 students playing this season. 

It’s led to debates around eligibility for school sports, and raised questions about the integrity of the Miles Totora Premiership. 

Rongotai College Principal Kevin Carter joined Piney to discuss what schools are doing to try keep a level playing field.  

“[Returning for year 14] has to be about the academics,” he told Piney. 

“I’d hate to think that there were schools out there encouraging students to come back solely to boost their sports teams.” 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from newstalk ZEDB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
One of the top rugby schools in the South Island
has five year fourteen students in their first fifteen squad
this season. For those of us of my generation and
a bit older, we're talking about eighth formers.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Now.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
The year fourteen phenomenon, which sees students return for a
sixth year of high school for sporting purposes, has long
been a source of contention in secondary school sport. In fact,
the practice was banned in rowing earlier this year after
a small number of schools allowed students to return to
row at the Marty Cup, the national championships, so they

(00:50):
said no more of that. But it still seems to
be going on in other sports including rugby. How widespread
is it, has it gotten better, has it gotten worse?
And are there any steps in place to prevent it.
Let's bring in principle at Wellington's wrong Attai College and
Deputy Chair of the College Sport Wellington Board, Kevin Carter. Kevin,
thanks for joining us on Weekend Sport. You've seen the

(01:11):
story concerning Malbler boys. What was your initial reaction to
the story first of all.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Well, there are a number of reasons why kids actually
come back to school for a year fourteen, So it's
not a new phenomenon that students are doing this, I suspect,
it's just what's brought it to the attentions this year
number of a third of their first fifteen are year
fourteen students. I mean. The other flashboart has been rowing,

(01:41):
as you mentioned, where some schools have had you know,
five out of a rowing eight as year fourteen's and
then they leave at the end of mardy gup. That
does sound a bit dodgy, I think to many people,
and that's why the school's rowing community has moved to
sort of put an end to that type of thing happening.

(02:01):
But there are lots of legitimate reasons why kids come
back to year fourteen, and in particular academic ones. They
don't have the qualification they need to do what they
want to do in their next stage of their life,
and so they'll come back to complete the qualification and
we've had students at my school do that as well.
Generally speaking, across sports teams, if there is a year

(02:24):
fourteen in a school team, there might be one, and
I don't think that's a problem. It's when there's such
a large number that it becomes an issue.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, And I don't think anybody would would say that
coming back to complete academic qualifications at an academic institution,
a secondary school was that. There's nothing wrong with that, Kevin.
It's obviously it's I think, the right course of action
for many students. Do you think there is, though I

(02:54):
don't know, you know, a practice of students being encouraged
to come back for that year fourteen with the intent
of them partipating in sport.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Look, I couldn't comment on that. I have no idea.
I'd hate to think that that was happening if it was,
because it's wrong. It has to be about the academics.
There has to be some purpose in sports, not necessarily,
in my opinion, the right purpose for coming back to
school for another term or even you know, two thirds

(03:33):
of the or three quarters of a year. So I'd
hate to think that there were schools out there encouraging
students to come back solely to boost their sports teams.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Are there any hard and fast rules around year fourteen's
participating in sport?

Speaker 3 (03:55):
It's not hard and fast about year fourteens it's about age.
There are limits to the age that students can play,
although rowing has brought in some some rulings on that
and the rugby age age limits have have been looked
at as well. So it's an age based thing. Is

(04:17):
the only is the only thing that restricts someone from
So you couldn't have someone who's twenty one playing in
the fear Susteam for us.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
No, No, of course not. But I mean, should there
be a rule, Should there be a rule just for example, Kevin,
that once you've had you know that five calendar years
from your year nine year beyond that point you don't
play school sport. Would that work?

Speaker 3 (04:42):
I'm sure that if that was put in place that
there'd be it would be able to be enforced, I think.
But the reality is, of course, let's not forget there's
not a lot of year four teens, and it's only
when there seems to be this this confluence of them
in one particular team then it seems to be an issue.

(05:05):
So if there was, you know, one player out of
fifteen in a FIRS fifteen who's in the year fourteen,
is there going to be a problem with that? Probably not.
But when there's five, there might be seem to be
an issue.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Has this been something you've been aware of in the
Wellington region. This is a Marlborough example, but it's just
the latest example. Has there been Has there been similar
sort of things in the Wellington region and in your patch?

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Not that I'm aware of. Certainly in my time as
principal at my school, I think we may have had
two year fourteens over the sixteen years that I've been
principal who have played first often several years apart, and
they've all come back for legitimate academic reasons and bona
fide pupils of the school. I know there is at

(05:51):
least one Wellington school that does have a rule that
they enforce themselves. There will be no for year fourteens
in our first fifteen and good on them.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Would you like to see that, even not necessarily you
know in reigned in law, but would you like to
see more schools follow suit in that way?

Speaker 3 (06:10):
I think it is something for the schools to think
about themselves, whether it became a regulation, as I say,
if it prevents five or six in a rowing crew
or a rugby team, that's something that people may have
to look at.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
When you're trying to attract students to your school, and
I know you've got open days coming up, open evenings coming.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Up, and we had hours this week.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Oh there you go, well and always came to attract
attract new students to your school. How important is sport
and the offering of sport in that conversation.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Oh, look at it's part of the wider picture of
what happens at school, and you know, it is an
important thing, and certainly at our school it's something that
you know, we encourage kids to placeboard. Around eighty percent
of our boys play at least one sport for the
school during the course of the year, and so that's
something we highlight. And of course we also highlight the

(07:08):
you know, the kids that have done really well at sport,
and when our teams have done well, we highlight that
as well. So, yeah, sport's an important part of that attraction,
but no more important than the cultural aspects of the
school and of course the academic ones as well.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Is there ego at play in the secondary school sporting landscape? Kevin?
You know, headmasters, principals, coaches chasing sporting success by whatever
means is available to them.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
I'm sure that whether it's ego or some other marketing
tools that there is that happened. You know, scholarships being
offered to students to change schools and play in the
use of tea and I mean it's one of the
reasons we have new school regulations across the whole New

(07:59):
Zealand secondary school sporting scene that there are limits to
how many new school players there can be sports teams.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, so just explain that to us. So basically, you
can't you can't buy in, for want of a better phrase,
an entire sports team for a year thirteen year for example, No,
you couldn't.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
You're different sports have different numbers that you can have
in your squads on a match day, which which might
be three or four for instance in a rugby In
a rugby team here in Wellington, it is three players
out of the squad of twenty two that can be
new to the school and by that it's within the

(08:39):
last eighteen months of coming to the school and no
more than that.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
And you talk before about you use the word marketing,
which I guess it is. You know, you're marketing your
school to prospective students, and I guess you're in a
competitive market, Kevin. Where you are you got Scott's College
just down the road, You've got Wellington College and Pats
Town a Catholic school, and others as well. Is it
competitive to try and get students, not just good sporting students,
but good students to your school.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Of course it is because all of our government funding
is determined by by the numbers of students we have.
Our staffing is determined in the state sector, in state
integrated sector, by the number of students we have in
our school. And herefre marketing the school and getting kids
through the gate is really important.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Well, you will forever be Artie Savia's School, Kevin, not
that I'm sure you use that as a as a
marketing tool. You might, but you'll always be Artie Savia's school.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
We will. And Julian Savias and Winton Rufus there you go.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, it's an honor roll honor roll, which is very impressive. Kevin.
Thank you for joining us this afternoon to add some perspective.
I know our listeners will have a bit to say.
I appreciate your time. Cool, Thank you, No, thank you, Kevin.
Kevin Carter, a Wrongatai College principal and deputy chair of
the College Sport Wellington Board.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
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