September 19, 2025 • 5 mins
The Black Ferns are coming to terms with their eight year reign as world champions being over.
They've been stunned by Canada 34-19 in their World Cup semi-final in Bristol.
Canada raced out the gates with three tries in the opening 25 minutes and led 24-7 at half-time.
Former Black Ferns Captain and Sky Sport Commentator Les Elder told Piney Canada not only outplayed us, but we were also outcoached.
“Everything that you’d expect from the Black Ferns, they cancelled it out, and then they executed on their side of the ball.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks, EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News talksb Les Elder twenty two tests for New Zealand,
captain the side and won the World Cup in twenty seventeen,
now a rugby commentator and analyst with Sky Sport. At least,
can we start with Canada? How good were they?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Well, you have to start with Canada, right, because they
were just too good. They outplayed us. They I actually
think we were out coached as well. Their game plan was,
you know, everything that you'd expect from the Black Friends.
They canceled it out and then they executed it on
the side of the board.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Can you talk a bit more about that in terms
of the game plan Canada came with on both sides
of the ball. What did you see from them that
was particularly effective?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
They flooded the edges, which is where we gain a
lot of our traction and momentum. Right, We've got outstanding
outside backs and we create momentum on the edge of
the fields. They shut that down, and when they shut
that down, it means we need to adapt. And I
don't think we adapted fast than we did adapt at
the start of the second half by playing through the
middle of the field with our pick and goes and
(01:11):
our boards going to work. But it was probably an
adaptation that came a little bit too.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Late and with ball in hand for Canada. Do you
think the Black Ferns were caught out in any way
by how high tempo the Canadian game plan was.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, I think we were actually, and I think we
were very mindful of their outside backs because they've got
some speedsters. Mikayla break off camera told us that Asia
Hogan Rochester is as fast as her, so that means
they're all faster than the Black Ferns because Mikayla is
one of the fastest in New Zealand. So I think
maybe because we were aware of that speed and flare
out wide, it changed how we defended internally and they
(01:48):
took the opportunities there. And that's why Justine, the halfback
that Pelithier, had such a great game because she's seen
our defense fanning and then she took up opportunities and
gaps through the middle.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
There were also a number of handling erarors from the
Black Ferns. That's uncharacteristic really, was that a result of
the on field and scoreboard pressure Canada built.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Quite possibly, we have seen a little bit so riddled
through the Blackburns throughout the i'd say the past year.
They did seem to capitalize on that in some of
these later games, but let's be we weren't tested other
than the half against South Africa. We haven't been tested
by quality side this Rugby World Cup. So yeah, that pressure,
(02:30):
not only the pressure that Canada applied on us defensively
done things to our attack, but also chasing such a
score line, right, we started too slow. They put seventeen
points on us and we were chasing the clock for
a long time.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Would Georgia Miller have made a significant difference.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Absolutely, I do think so. It's what she creates on
the edge of the field, and like I said, they
shut down our edge. But imagine if we had Georgia
out there, it could have played games with their defense.
At least she would have beaten the first defender. So yeah,
I think losing her was a massive loss.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
You talk there as well about not being tested up
until now in the tournament. The same goes for Canada though,
Les you know, they sort of rolled through Paul play
Put forty odd on Australia. How were they able to
keep their standards nice and high despite the fact they
weren't really tested either.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, that's a good point you make that, and I
think again it just comes down to the quality of
the team, the quality of the coaching, the game plan
that they executed. We heard Poorsha Woodman Whickliffe post game say,
we knew the game plan they were going to bring.
We knew what they were going to do. Unlike Canada,
though they didn't shut them, we didn't shut them down
knowing that game plan. So again I'm not going to
(03:43):
take away from Canada. They outplayed us. They executed a
great game plan.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So the Black Ferns will now play off the third
and fourth again. Nobody, I'm sure once you reach the
semis wants to be involved. And how challenging will it
be to get up for another game.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, absolutely, it's going to be tough. But like I
said on air, for hours, to soak that all in,
you've got to feel it. You've got to hurt it,
you know, feel the hurt, but you've got to go
again because that's that's your job. That's what you've got
to do. You don't pick and choose which moment she's
turned up for, so they'll one d flick the switch
and they'll go again because they have to.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
The end of a World Cup cycle always sees the
changing of the guard in some respects, and we know
that we're likely not going to see Porscha Woodman Wickliffe
again beyond this World Cup obviously, and maybe some others too.
Do you expect a reinvigoration of the playing group now, well.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I think looking at the positives of it, they have
the coaching group have done quite a good job at
bringing some depth into the side, right So there are
players that didn't even make this World Cup still at
home who are young in the early twenties. Those girls
will start featuring in the coming years, so I think, yes,
we're going to see so the exodus of some players,
but we're going to see I think more young Braxton
(04:54):
Thornton McGee's turn up on our tellies as well.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Could Canada win the World Cup?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Absolutely, and I hope they do. That's the reason why
I hope they do. Obviously, the long rivalry with England
just sort of still sits there as an old player,
but Canada have the semi professional on top of that,
they don't have the legacy of the infrastructure of a
(05:20):
men's game. New Zealand has a strong men's program, France
has a strong men's program, England have a strong men's program.
Canada's men's team and you know, we don't know much
about them, let's be honest. So they have created what
they have created. This women's team, have created this off
their own back and to me is a proud female
(05:40):
rugby player and supporter of the women's game. It shows
how women can do it on their terms.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Leers, have really enjoyed your analysis across the tournament on
Sky and here this afternoon. Thanks for taking our.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Call, no problems, thanks for having me, no thanks.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
For joining us. There's Elder, their former Black Firms captain.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk ZB weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks, EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News talksb Les Elder twenty two tests for New Zealand,
captain the side and won the World Cup in twenty seventeen,
now a rugby commentator and analyst with Sky Sport. At least,
can we start with Canada? How good were they?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Well, you have to start with Canada, right, because they
were just too good. They outplayed us. They I actually
think we were out coached as well. Their game plan was,
you know, everything that you'd expect from the Black Friends.
They canceled it out and then they executed it on
the side of the board.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Can you talk a bit more about that in terms
of the game plan Canada came with on both sides
of the ball. What did you see from them that
was particularly effective?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
They flooded the edges, which is where we gain a
lot of our traction and momentum. Right, We've got outstanding
outside backs and we create momentum on the edge of
the fields. They shut that down, and when they shut
that down, it means we need to adapt. And I
don't think we adapted fast than we did adapt at
the start of the second half by playing through the
middle of the field with our pick and goes and
(01:11):
our boards going to work. But it was probably an
adaptation that came a little bit too.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Late and with ball in hand for Canada. Do you
think the Black Ferns were caught out in any way
by how high tempo the Canadian game plan was.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, I think we were actually, and I think we
were very mindful of their outside backs because they've got
some speedsters. Mikayla break off camera told us that Asia
Hogan Rochester is as fast as her, so that means
they're all faster than the Black Ferns because Mikayla is
one of the fastest in New Zealand. So I think
maybe because we were aware of that speed and flare
out wide, it changed how we defended internally and they
(01:48):
took the opportunities there. And that's why Justine, the halfback
that Pelithier, had such a great game because she's seen
our defense fanning and then she took up opportunities and
gaps through the middle.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
There were also a number of handling erarors from the
Black Ferns. That's uncharacteristic really, was that a result of
the on field and scoreboard pressure Canada built.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Quite possibly, we have seen a little bit so riddled
through the Blackburns throughout the i'd say the past year.
They did seem to capitalize on that in some of
these later games, but let's be we weren't tested other
than the half against South Africa. We haven't been tested
by quality side this Rugby World Cup. So yeah, that pressure,
(02:30):
not only the pressure that Canada applied on us defensively
done things to our attack, but also chasing such a
score line, right, we started too slow. They put seventeen
points on us and we were chasing the clock for
a long time.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Would Georgia Miller have made a significant difference.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Absolutely, I do think so. It's what she creates on
the edge of the field, and like I said, they
shut down our edge. But imagine if we had Georgia
out there, it could have played games with their defense.
At least she would have beaten the first defender. So yeah,
I think losing her was a massive loss.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
You talk there as well about not being tested up
until now in the tournament. The same goes for Canada though,
Les you know, they sort of rolled through Paul play
Put forty odd on Australia. How were they able to
keep their standards nice and high despite the fact they
weren't really tested either.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, that's a good point you make that, and I
think again it just comes down to the quality of
the team, the quality of the coaching, the game plan
that they executed. We heard Poorsha Woodman Whickliffe post game say,
we knew the game plan they were going to bring.
We knew what they were going to do. Unlike Canada,
though they didn't shut them, we didn't shut them down
knowing that game plan. So again I'm not going to
(03:43):
take away from Canada. They outplayed us. They executed a
great game plan.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So the Black Ferns will now play off the third
and fourth again. Nobody, I'm sure once you reach the
semis wants to be involved. And how challenging will it
be to get up for another game.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, absolutely, it's going to be tough. But like I
said on air, for hours, to soak that all in,
you've got to feel it. You've got to hurt it,
you know, feel the hurt, but you've got to go
again because that's that's your job. That's what you've got
to do. You don't pick and choose which moment she's
turned up for, so they'll one d flick the switch
and they'll go again because they have to.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
The end of a World Cup cycle always sees the
changing of the guard in some respects, and we know
that we're likely not going to see Porscha Woodman Wickliffe
again beyond this World Cup obviously, and maybe some others too.
Do you expect a reinvigoration of the playing group now, well.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I think looking at the positives of it, they have
the coaching group have done quite a good job at
bringing some depth into the side, right So there are
players that didn't even make this World Cup still at
home who are young in the early twenties. Those girls
will start featuring in the coming years, so I think, yes,
we're going to see so the exodus of some players,
but we're going to see I think more young Braxton
(04:54):
Thornton McGee's turn up on our tellies as well.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Could Canada win the World Cup?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Absolutely, and I hope they do. That's the reason why
I hope they do. Obviously, the long rivalry with England
just sort of still sits there as an old player,
but Canada have the semi professional on top of that,
they don't have the legacy of the infrastructure of a
(05:20):
men's game. New Zealand has a strong men's program, France
has a strong men's program, England have a strong men's program.
Canada's men's team and you know, we don't know much
about them, let's be honest. So they have created what
they have created. This women's team, have created this off
their own back and to me is a proud female
(05:40):
rugby player and supporter of the women's game. It shows
how women can do it on their terms.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Leers, have really enjoyed your analysis across the tournament on
Sky and here this afternoon. Thanks for taking our.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Call, no problems, thanks for having me, no thanks.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
For joining us. There's Elder, their former Black Firms captain.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk ZB weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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