June 21, 2025 • 10 mins
Sailing expert Mark Orams believes three-time America's Cup winner Peter Burling will be a huge asset for Luna Rossa, despite being unable to race on the water.
Burling has joined the Italian syndicate ahead of the 38th America's Cup, but will be restricted to a shoreline role.
Orams joined Piney to discuss further.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News broke on Friday night that three time America's Cup
winning helmsman with Emirates Team New Zealand Peter Berling will
join Luna Rossa for the next America's Cup. Former New
Zealand and World champion sailor Team New Zealand member and
sailing professor Mark Orams is with us to break this down.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Mark.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
First of all, when you heard this news, were you
surprised by it?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Not too much of a surprise, given that we'd already
heard that Peter Berling was not going to be around
within the Team New Zealand ranks for the thirty eighth
America's Cup, so it was only a matter of time
before one of the other challenges picked them up. Such
a good get, and the fact that Lerna Rossa prior
to Pralli ended up with Pete as a massive cup
(00:56):
for them.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
How much demand would Peter Berling have been in? Would
his phone have started ringing? Or not his phone maybe
but his agent's phone or whoever looks after these things.
Would there have been immediate contact made with his representatives
once it was known he was leaving Emirates Team New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Oh absolutely. In fact, I think there would have been
communication and just sort of sounding out with Peter long
before that, immediately after the end of the last America's Cup.
Remembering that this is somebody who has a track record
now second to none, including Russell Coots in terms of
America's Cups, Skipper's victories and the Youth America's Cup before that.
(01:33):
So Pete Berling is as an outstanding all round sailor.
He's technically very very smart and from Luna Rossa prator
for Elli's perspective. This elevates them now to a very
very strong position.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
In terms of what he can and can't do at
Luna Rossa under the nationality rules. Smart, can you just
explain where we are with that right now?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yes, certainly so. At the moment, the protocol for the
thirty eighth America's Cup is still a draft so yet
to be finalized between the defend Emirates Team New Zealand
and the challenger of record A seen a racing that's
been Ainsley's name of his new team, but within the
draft protocol it puts forward exactly the same restrictions as
(02:19):
for the thirty seventh America's Cup last time, and that
being that if you've sailed for a team in the
America's Cup immediately prior, you're not allowed to actually sail
for your new team in the subsequent Cup. So if
that protocol is confirmed for the thirty eighth America's Cup,
that means Peter Berling will not be permitted to sail
(02:40):
on board during the racing. Of course, for practice racing
and so on, he can, but during the racing itself
he won't be permitted to be part of the sailing team.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
How much would that dilute his value to Lunarossa.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I don't think a huge amount. The value that Pete
brings is his experience, and especially I think in terms
of his understanding of the critical decisions that are made
in the years leading up to the America's Cup. So
the performance in the America's Cup itself is determined by
what happens in the key decisions the years leading up
(03:16):
to it, and Peter has been intimately involved with all
of those decisions as the skipper and the lead of
the sailing team with an Emirates Ta New Zealand on
the three occasions now that they've won. So that's the
big value that he brings. What Lunar, Rossi, Prada Prelia
doing is setting themselves up for the future. They've already
(03:36):
indicated that they are changing out from their long standing
helmsman and skippers in Francesco Brunie the Italian and Jimmy Spittle,
and they've changed out to two extremely talented Italian sailors,
Ruggiero Tito and Marco Gridoni. And they've indicated that before
Marco Goredoni is an outstanding talent like Peter Berling before
(04:00):
him won the Youth America's Cup last time. So you know,
this is a team that is looking to the future,
and the investment with Peter Berling adds value to bringing
those two new talented young helmsman on board to form
a very formidable sailing team.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I understand all of what you've said about Peter Burling
being involved in everything that leads up to the regatta itself,
but I don't know Mark. Peter Berling strikes me as
an on the water sailor. He wants the ocean spray
in his face. That's how I feel about Peter Berling.
How would he go in an off the water roll.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I think you'll add enormous value. We're Peter, and this
is really what caused the I guess the decision from
Grand Bolton for Peter not to continue on with Emirates
teamsyonder is that Peter is very much focused on the
Black Foils and the sale GP given them. You think
about a competitive person like Peter Berling three straight America's Cups,
(04:58):
but what he hasn't done is he hasn't won sale
GP in four straight seasons. He's come close, but this
is something he's yet to knock off, and so his
competitive ambitions will be really driven to develop the Black
Foils to be successful in something that they haven't knocked
off yet. So he will get in effect his competitive
sailing fixed through his sail GP endeavors and the Lunarosi
(05:21):
Prator Pralli will be him at a stage in his
life and career in the America's Cup where I think
he'll get satisfaction out of seeing the value he can
add to developing some rookie America's Cup helms people in
the new team that they're bringing together on this sailing
crew for Lunarossa if.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
You look into your crystal ball, then beyond the thirty
eighth to the thirty ninth, when presumably, if the rules
stay the same, he would be eligible to get back
on the boat. Can you see him doing that or
do you think that for the America's Cup he'll be
off the water and is on the water stuff will
be with the black foils moving forward.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Hard to know.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I meanole, there's a whole bunch of things that will
determine that. I think Peter Berling will certainly had the
talent and certainly the experience to be successful if he
was to come back to a sailing position. Whether the
thirty ninth America's Cup will allow him to do that
will largely depend on who wins the thirty eighth America's
Cup and the rules that they set up for the
(06:21):
next edition. So you know, there are a whole bunch
of things that would need to happen there. But Peter
Burley's not done yet. One of the things about the
sport of sailing is that you can stay very competitive,
unlike many other sports, into your forties. Remembering that Peter
Burling is still in his thirties, so he's not done
yet and wouldn't surprise me to see him helming in
(06:42):
America's Cup boat again sometime down the track.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well on or off the water, and likely off the
water for the thirty eighth. Then how much does this
boost lunar Rossa. Are they now likely to be the
challenger for the thirty eighth America's Cup.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, it's a long way out, but what we know
is that the key decisions that you make now determine
how competitive you're going to be when it comes to
race time. And remember that this cycle is quite short.
It's only two years until the next America's Cup series.
So Lunarosa Prator Prarey have a number of things in
their favor now. One is that are a very very
(07:17):
stable and competitive team. They've got continuity in terms of
key personnel, in terms of sponsors, so they don't have
to go out there and hustle like Ben Ainsley's having
to do at the moment to try and sort of
resurrect his team post Anios breakup. So they've got that continuity.
They've recruited extremely well and by the way, Peter Booley
(07:37):
is not the only ex Emirates team New Zealand member
Josh Jr. One of the key members of Emirates Team
New Zealand's success, moved to Lunarosa Prator Parali at the
beginning of this year. So they've built their stocks and
of course they've now got and effect the home court advantage.
With the announcement that Naples is the host of the
thirty eighth America's Cup, that's only a very short distance
(07:59):
from the base southern Endisidinia where Lunarosi Prata Parelli is,
So there's a whole bunch of things stacking up in
favor of Lunarosa Prata Parali. Now they will be a
formidable team. They already are, they're even more formidable now.
So you would have to say that at this stage,
even though it's two years away, they are in the
box seat to be the challenger and they will be
(08:20):
a very strong challenger if they get through the series
to challenge for the thirty eighth America's Cup.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Mark what about the dynamic between Peter Berling and some
of his Black Foils teammates, And I think about Bleair
Chuck for example, who he is a teammate of with
the Black Foils and sale GP and now will presumably
be an adversary of during the America's Cup. How are
those dynamics play out.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Yeah, that's an interesting point, isn't it. I think? And
this is not the first time where we've seen the
sort of the type four of the basis of the
Emirates Team New Zealand and the Black Foils. Andy Maloney
was quite a surprise when he chose to move on
from the Black Foils and he's now sailing for the
Brazilian team in sale GP, but he's remaining with Emirates
(09:10):
Team New Zealand. So and Blair Chuck of course and
Pete Berlin there tight. They've been great mates, Olympic partners
for three campaigns and co CEOs of the Black Foils.
So you know, those friendships I think transcend who these
people are competing for. They run long, they run deep,
(09:32):
and we're in a stage now I think in professional
sailing where people moving and competing for different teams, there's
analogous to what we see in a lot of other
professional sports where those friendships remain. You're absolutely fear as competitors,
in this case on the water or in other places
on the field, on the court, but off the court
(09:52):
or off the field, off the water, you still retain
those friendships in the respect that's been built over decades
of sailing with and now sailing against one another.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Fascinating times ahead, Mark, thanks so much for joining us
this afternoon and lending us your analysis. Really appreciate it
so pleasure. No thanks, my, that's our professor, Mark Orams,
Sailing Professor Mark Orams, former New Zealand and World champion
Silo and Team New Zealand member.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk Set B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News broke on Friday night that three time America's Cup
winning helmsman with Emirates Team New Zealand Peter Berling will
join Luna Rossa for the next America's Cup. Former New
Zealand and World champion sailor Team New Zealand member and
sailing professor Mark Orams is with us to break this down.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Mark.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
First of all, when you heard this news, were you
surprised by it?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Not too much of a surprise, given that we'd already
heard that Peter Berling was not going to be around
within the Team New Zealand ranks for the thirty eighth
America's Cup, so it was only a matter of time
before one of the other challenges picked them up. Such
a good get, and the fact that Lerna Rossa prior
to Pralli ended up with Pete as a massive cup
(00:56):
for them.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
How much demand would Peter Berling have been in? Would
his phone have started ringing? Or not his phone maybe
but his agent's phone or whoever looks after these things.
Would there have been immediate contact made with his representatives
once it was known he was leaving Emirates Team New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Oh absolutely. In fact, I think there would have been
communication and just sort of sounding out with Peter long
before that, immediately after the end of the last America's Cup.
Remembering that this is somebody who has a track record
now second to none, including Russell Coots in terms of
America's Cups, Skipper's victories and the Youth America's Cup before that.
(01:33):
So Pete Berling is as an outstanding all round sailor.
He's technically very very smart and from Luna Rossa prator
for Elli's perspective. This elevates them now to a very
very strong position.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
In terms of what he can and can't do at
Luna Rossa under the nationality rules. Smart, can you just
explain where we are with that right now?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yes, certainly so. At the moment, the protocol for the
thirty eighth America's Cup is still a draft so yet
to be finalized between the defend Emirates Team New Zealand
and the challenger of record A seen a racing that's
been Ainsley's name of his new team, but within the
draft protocol it puts forward exactly the same restrictions as
(02:19):
for the thirty seventh America's Cup last time, and that
being that if you've sailed for a team in the
America's Cup immediately prior, you're not allowed to actually sail
for your new team in the subsequent Cup. So if
that protocol is confirmed for the thirty eighth America's Cup,
that means Peter Berling will not be permitted to sail
(02:40):
on board during the racing. Of course, for practice racing
and so on, he can, but during the racing itself
he won't be permitted to be part of the sailing team.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
How much would that dilute his value to Lunarossa.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I don't think a huge amount. The value that Pete
brings is his experience, and especially I think in terms
of his understanding of the critical decisions that are made
in the years leading up to the America's Cup. So
the performance in the America's Cup itself is determined by
what happens in the key decisions the years leading up
(03:16):
to it, and Peter has been intimately involved with all
of those decisions as the skipper and the lead of
the sailing team with an Emirates Ta New Zealand on
the three occasions now that they've won. So that's the
big value that he brings. What Lunar, Rossi, Prada Prelia
doing is setting themselves up for the future. They've already
(03:36):
indicated that they are changing out from their long standing
helmsman and skippers in Francesco Brunie the Italian and Jimmy Spittle,
and they've changed out to two extremely talented Italian sailors,
Ruggiero Tito and Marco Gridoni. And they've indicated that before
Marco Goredoni is an outstanding talent like Peter Berling before
(04:00):
him won the Youth America's Cup last time. So you know,
this is a team that is looking to the future,
and the investment with Peter Berling adds value to bringing
those two new talented young helmsman on board to form
a very formidable sailing team.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I understand all of what you've said about Peter Burling
being involved in everything that leads up to the regatta itself,
but I don't know Mark. Peter Berling strikes me as
an on the water sailor. He wants the ocean spray
in his face. That's how I feel about Peter Berling.
How would he go in an off the water roll.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I think you'll add enormous value. We're Peter, and this
is really what caused the I guess the decision from
Grand Bolton for Peter not to continue on with Emirates
teamsyonder is that Peter is very much focused on the
Black Foils and the sale GP given them. You think
about a competitive person like Peter Berling three straight America's Cups,
(04:58):
but what he hasn't done is he hasn't won sale
GP in four straight seasons. He's come close, but this
is something he's yet to knock off, and so his
competitive ambitions will be really driven to develop the Black
Foils to be successful in something that they haven't knocked
off yet. So he will get in effect his competitive
sailing fixed through his sail GP endeavors and the Lunarosi
(05:21):
Prator Pralli will be him at a stage in his
life and career in the America's Cup where I think
he'll get satisfaction out of seeing the value he can
add to developing some rookie America's Cup helms people in
the new team that they're bringing together on this sailing
crew for Lunarossa if.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
You look into your crystal ball, then beyond the thirty
eighth to the thirty ninth, when presumably, if the rules
stay the same, he would be eligible to get back
on the boat. Can you see him doing that or
do you think that for the America's Cup he'll be
off the water and is on the water stuff will
be with the black foils moving forward.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Hard to know.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I meanole, there's a whole bunch of things that will
determine that. I think Peter Berling will certainly had the
talent and certainly the experience to be successful if he
was to come back to a sailing position. Whether the
thirty ninth America's Cup will allow him to do that
will largely depend on who wins the thirty eighth America's
Cup and the rules that they set up for the
(06:21):
next edition. So you know, there are a whole bunch
of things that would need to happen there. But Peter
Burley's not done yet. One of the things about the
sport of sailing is that you can stay very competitive,
unlike many other sports, into your forties. Remembering that Peter
Burling is still in his thirties, so he's not done
yet and wouldn't surprise me to see him helming in
(06:42):
America's Cup boat again sometime down the track.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well on or off the water, and likely off the
water for the thirty eighth. Then how much does this
boost lunar Rossa. Are they now likely to be the
challenger for the thirty eighth America's Cup.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, it's a long way out, but what we know
is that the key decisions that you make now determine
how competitive you're going to be when it comes to
race time. And remember that this cycle is quite short.
It's only two years until the next America's Cup series.
So Lunarosa Prator Prarey have a number of things in
their favor now. One is that are a very very
(07:17):
stable and competitive team. They've got continuity in terms of
key personnel, in terms of sponsors, so they don't have
to go out there and hustle like Ben Ainsley's having
to do at the moment to try and sort of
resurrect his team post Anios breakup. So they've got that continuity.
They've recruited extremely well and by the way, Peter Booley
(07:37):
is not the only ex Emirates team New Zealand member
Josh Jr. One of the key members of Emirates Team
New Zealand's success, moved to Lunarosa Prator Parali at the
beginning of this year. So they've built their stocks and
of course they've now got and effect the home court advantage.
With the announcement that Naples is the host of the
thirty eighth America's Cup, that's only a very short distance
(07:59):
from the base southern Endisidinia where Lunarosi Prata Parelli is,
So there's a whole bunch of things stacking up in
favor of Lunarosa Prata Parali. Now they will be a
formidable team. They already are, they're even more formidable now.
So you would have to say that at this stage,
even though it's two years away, they are in the
box seat to be the challenger and they will be
(08:20):
a very strong challenger if they get through the series
to challenge for the thirty eighth America's Cup.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Mark what about the dynamic between Peter Berling and some
of his Black Foils teammates, And I think about Bleair
Chuck for example, who he is a teammate of with
the Black Foils and sale GP and now will presumably
be an adversary of during the America's Cup. How are
those dynamics play out.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Yeah, that's an interesting point, isn't it. I think? And
this is not the first time where we've seen the
sort of the type four of the basis of the
Emirates Team New Zealand and the Black Foils. Andy Maloney
was quite a surprise when he chose to move on
from the Black Foils and he's now sailing for the
Brazilian team in sale GP, but he's remaining with Emirates
(09:10):
Team New Zealand. So and Blair Chuck of course and
Pete Berlin there tight. They've been great mates, Olympic partners
for three campaigns and co CEOs of the Black Foils.
So you know, those friendships I think transcend who these
people are competing for. They run long, they run deep,
(09:32):
and we're in a stage now I think in professional
sailing where people moving and competing for different teams, there's
analogous to what we see in a lot of other
professional sports where those friendships remain. You're absolutely fear as competitors,
in this case on the water or in other places
on the field, on the court, but off the court
(09:52):
or off the field, off the water, you still retain
those friendships in the respect that's been built over decades
of sailing with and now sailing against one another.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Fascinating times ahead, Mark, thanks so much for joining us
this afternoon and lending us your analysis. Really appreciate it
so pleasure. No thanks, my, that's our professor, Mark Orams,
Sailing Professor Mark Orams, former New Zealand and World champion
Silo and Team New Zealand member.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk Set B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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