October 19, 2024 • 13 mins
The world’s most expensive horse racing event is taking place today.
Radwick in Australia is playing host to the $20 million Everest Race, and two Kiwi horses are favoured to win.
Horse racing Journalist Mick Guerin joined Piney for a chat about the event and the hefty prize that could be won.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from newstalksb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Not smart, but there is a lot of other sport
going on, including the world's richest horse race surprise pool
of twenty million Australian dollars the Everest over twelve hundred
meters jumps at six fifteen this evening New Zealand Time
at Randwick in Sydney. New Zealand Herald Racing editor mcgarren
joins us from Ramwick. Thanks for your time as always.
(00:33):
First of all, this is a slot race. Can you
just explain that concept to us?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yeah, High Piney, big high at all your listeners and
good luck to AWK on their severestros game today. It's
the great thing for the city and great for forty
in the country. A slot race means that basically people
can buy a slot that is the right to race
a horse. Not a human could buy it. Often it's
a corporation because these slots are very expensive. The are
(00:58):
six hundred thousand dollars and there's only twelve of them,
so anybody can go out and buy one. And then
you say I have slot, so I need to find
a horse. Now you may have your own horse, in
which case you race. Or for example, you and I
buy a slot together and then we think we want
to get Jolie Star, so we negotiate with the owners
(01:20):
of Jolie Star and say the top price, the first
price today seven million, if because we paid for the slot,
because obviously it hasn't cost the owners of the horse anything.
You say we might go fifty to fifty, Well, if
you've got a really good horse, you might go sixty forty.
So that's seven million dollars, which is the first prize.
The trainers and jockey's percentage comes out, so takes it
(01:42):
down to six. If we're fifty to fifty, you get
three million, as we do as a slot holders, and
they get three million. Now most of the big corporations
are involved, and this can actually use it as tax
deductibility as a marketing expense, so the actual six hundred
won't cost them six hundred much my marketing expenses. But
they're still negotiations to be done, and you're still going
(02:02):
to find a horse. And if you find a horse
three months ago and it loses form, you might have
to go point another horse. So there's a whole array
of politics and interesting machinations around the entire thing, and
people who want to work with each other and don't
want to work with each other, and Howard aligns with
their brand. It's really fascinating. It's part election, part nrl
(02:25):
AFL draft type thing and part horse race. And then
once all of that's happened, Piney, then we get to
quarter past six to night. The horses don't hear, they
get in the barriers and inside sixty eight seconds they
did the up twenty million dollars. So it's one of
the world's richest sporting events but also one of the
(02:46):
world's quickest.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Indeed so quick. Now. I read your piece this morning
in the Herald and you pointed out that the Everest
was set up to showcase Australian sprinting prowess. But there
are a couple of Kiwi horses who are probably favorite.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Meck, yeah, they are the favorite. So there's two New
Zealand owned horses in the race, I Wish I Win,
which races in the tab slot and they have an
enormous array of promotions around him. And then there's a
horse called Jolie Star who's owned by Cambridge stud Brendan
and Joe Lindsey, who didn't race that many horses. Ten
(03:20):
years ago. Brendan Lindsay, famous for setting up and then
selling Systeamer the Plastic found business for six hundred and
six million dollars. He bought Cambridge start off there now
late Sir Patrick Hogan, and has tipped an enormous amount
of money into rebuilding it. Now. This will be a
huge coupe for the New Zealand industry because if I
wish I win, wins his father Savabiel the Stallion stands
(03:44):
in my cutol If Jolie Star winds, she'll return home
to New Zealand to become a brood met. It's one
of the most valuable horses on Earth. Female horses anyway,
So New Zealand horses are basically breed more to win
sixteen hundred to twenty four hundred or thirty two hundred
that been the Melbourne Cup distances. The European horses a
(04:06):
bread for twenty four to thirty two. But the Australians
are speed mad. They love fast, quick horses who run
up two and three. So for us to be first
and second favorites to win a race set up for
Australian horses would almost be a little bit like I've
mentioned the NRL World Cup soccer for league, so the
(04:27):
League World Cup, it'd be like the Kiwis playing Tonga
in the final and all the Australians and the Kangaroo
supporters having to watch. That's what it will be like
if we manage to pull this off today at Randwick.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
How strong is the competition maker? Who are the big
threats to our two Kiwi horses?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Well, you're talking about big boys here, but the people
involved in this stuff make the people who run the
America's Cup look like they we're going to store like.
You've got Godolphin, who are the Arabs who not only
own most of the oil wells in Dubai but also
Emirates they own the airline, so there serious people. Then
you've got Corball, who are the world leaders and horse
(05:08):
racing who were set up on the back of Magna's breweries.
And again they're talking you're getting involved with the billionaires.
And then you've got a guy called mister Jiang from
China who owns you Long and he has been buying
horses like Imperators, the New Zealand horse he paid six
point six million dollars for this year. He'll buy horses
for a million dollars on a woman. It is. These
(05:29):
are serious, serious players and the money involved is astronomical.
So not only I know some people think, well, that
doesn't affect me. It's not just about them. There's other
horses in the race who are owned by syndicates. One
of the horses is owned by a syndicate which has
a childcare worker involved. Just some normal lady who's enjoying
her life, had a couple percentage points on a horse
(05:51):
and now she's going head to head with Sheik Muhammed
who owns Go Dolphin, and are all in there in
their boxes today. Each horse and slot gets a box
and the horses don't know who owned them. That's the
majesty of racing is once you've got the horse, no
matter how much money you've spent on it, they don't know.
This race could be won by a horse who costs
ten million, or it could be one by a horse
(06:13):
who cost one hundred thousand dollars. So the horses the
key we have to beat. I think the three year
olds are the big danger and they are owned by
the superpowers. Stormboy owned by Coolmore Traffic Warden owned by Godolphin,
and the horse I like each way in the race
Growing Empire owned by you Long, which is out of China.
(06:34):
So the New Zealanders are up against it. But at
this stage, about five hours out from the race or
four hours out from the race, they are the favorites.
The weather is good in Sydney and the track is
a soft five piney, so that means it's pretty much perfect.
No one will be disadvantaged or advantage either way.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Now, the TAB res also giving punters here a chance
to win ten million dollars if we can pick the
correct finishing order of all twelve runners. Now that sounds
difficult mat but I think last year somebody did.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah I do for Morgan got it remarkable. So it's free. Basically,
if you're a TAB customer, it's free. If you're a
TV customer, you can log on to your website, you
don't have to put any money, and you can open
a TIB account with two dollars. This is not just
about gambling, and if you don't feel like gambling, don't
get but you can enter this competition for free. It's
(07:26):
like a free Loto ticket and you probably won't win.
But it's good fun. I entered and I can win
on I do some work for the tab, but Piney,
you can anybody listeningers can need to just go to
tab dot co, dot MZ and you've got to pick
all twelve horses in the correct finishing audit. If you
don't know anything, look go and favoritism or to go
(07:46):
in your favorite colors. It really doesn't matter. It's a
free loto ticket. As I said, somebody pulled it off
last year and an Auckland man got ten million tax
free Piney, so ironically he won more money than all
those people were talking about who actually had a horse
in the race.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Incredible. I thought I was going to do it then
MC I'd go. I wish I went in Jolly Star
one and two, so i'd have that for starters. Would
I be on the right track.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Look the market that that's the dividends for the horse,
and suggestion would be I like growing empire off back him.
It's one of those things with gambling. Not everybody should gamble.
If you have no disposable income and you and the
family are doing things stuff, then don't you. But if
you have got twenty dollars, which is what it cost
you to go to the movies, and you want to
have a bit of fun this afternoon. What would I do? Well,
(08:35):
you're already going to be riding the kiwis I wish
I win and Jolie Stark because you're a New Zealander
and you want them to win, because it's a big deal.
So what I'd do is back growing empire. He's eight dollars,
did your ten dollars each way on it and again
bit responsibly. But if you've got that sort of coin
in your pocket, it's not a disaster. It rolls on
the wins. You turned twenty into one hundred, and all
(08:56):
of a sudden, you're not going to the movies tonight.
Maybe you're going out for dinner. That's what I would do, Poney.
It's a very even race and by no means an
easy race to pick. But I can't for estimate to
you how difficult it is to get a horse into
this race, like you are rarely playing with the world leaders.
So to have two New Zealand horses not only in
(09:17):
the race, but to be favored and knowing that could
have future impact on our breeding. As I said, to
explain it to people, who are listening to this who
don't care about racing. It's a little bit like if
we had two guys who played in the EPL, We'll
keep the soccer thing for today. If we had two
kids from New Zealand who ended up playing in the
EPL and then they ended up in the Champions League,
(09:40):
you're up against the best in the world. I realized
soccer is by far bigger England horse racing, but the
chances of doing it are that difficult because there are
so many horses bred and any horse in the world
is eligible for this race. Horses have come from overseas
for it before, so that's how hard there is to
get here. Then, Piney, you've got to win.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You've painted a brilliant picture for us. What's what sort
of crowd will they get at RAMD with today?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Sold out forty six thousand people. That's all they are
actually allowed to have because of the logistics of the
place and how many bathrooms they need and how many
security starts and all that needs sold out three days before. Now,
when you think about sport in Australia, there's only about
three sports that ever sell out. Rugby no longer sells out,
not really maybe the All Brick Keise might, but only
(10:29):
if the Eulbricks are playing the Willies. Obviously NARL can
sell out a final, they didn't sell out their recent
final because of the makeup of the two teams not
being Sydney based teams, and soccer can sell out clearly,
particularly when you play in Melbourne or Sydney a CE
they can sell out a big event, and obviously AFL
can sell out something, but obviously they actually play their
(10:50):
biggest games at the G. It's incredibly hard in Australia
to sell out a sporting event because there's so much
sport on here, So in Sydney to sell out three
days beforehand for forty six thousand tickets. And racing's a
varsity different animal from other rays. From other days. You
can to any ral final when your jeans and your boots,
you don't need to prepare takes. It's a lot goes
(11:11):
into racing today. The amount of money this day would
pour into the Sydney economy is staggering, just through people
who buying suits and buying stuff and going out for
dinners and breakfast and staying in hotels. Every economic study
you see about major racement Engton. We're about to have
one in christ Church for the carnival down there. They
have significantly more impact on the city economically than an
(11:34):
Ordex test because not only do more people travel for
it behind it, but they stay for longer, they spend
more money when they're there, and that's why these huge
cities like Melbourne and Sydney have these huge carnivals because
the money goes back into them and that's one of
the key things. Anybody who works in christ Rich's hospitality
will tell you the biggest week of the year is
(11:55):
cut week in christ Church and that's the same for
many many towns and cities around New Zealand and Australia.
So racing is not everybody's cup of teeth on it.
I absolutely get that and respect it. There is undeniably
a huge economic driver for that type of stuff, even
in a place as big as Sydney.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
MC. Great to get the chance to chat to you.
Thanks for painting such a good picture for us. All
the best this afternoon. Catch up again soon. No thanks
for taking our.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Call, Binnie. We appreciate the chet made and asty congratulations
to open the seed. Everybody involved. It is no small undertaking.
I hope everybody enjoys liten.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
This game, Tom Man, mcthanks. Indeed, that's New Zealand Herald
Racing editor mcgarren absolute authority on horse racing, with some
very sensible messaging there as well. Yeah, the everest it
jumps at six point fifteen this evening, New Zealand time
at Ramwick and Sydney. I wish I win one of
the favorites, the other Kiwi horse, Jolly Starr, A couple
(12:53):
of keiw horses up against up against some of the
fastest in Australia. What it makes a sixty eight seconds
incredible incredible stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Paine, listen live
to News Talks it B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from newstalksb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Not smart, but there is a lot of other sport
going on, including the world's richest horse race surprise pool
of twenty million Australian dollars the Everest over twelve hundred
meters jumps at six fifteen this evening New Zealand Time
at Randwick in Sydney. New Zealand Herald Racing editor mcgarren
joins us from Ramwick. Thanks for your time as always.
(00:33):
First of all, this is a slot race. Can you
just explain that concept to us?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yeah, High Piney, big high at all your listeners and
good luck to AWK on their severestros game today. It's
the great thing for the city and great for forty
in the country. A slot race means that basically people
can buy a slot that is the right to race
a horse. Not a human could buy it. Often it's
a corporation because these slots are very expensive. The are
(00:58):
six hundred thousand dollars and there's only twelve of them,
so anybody can go out and buy one. And then
you say I have slot, so I need to find
a horse. Now you may have your own horse, in
which case you race. Or for example, you and I
buy a slot together and then we think we want
to get Jolie Star, so we negotiate with the owners
(01:20):
of Jolie Star and say the top price, the first
price today seven million, if because we paid for the slot,
because obviously it hasn't cost the owners of the horse anything.
You say we might go fifty to fifty, Well, if
you've got a really good horse, you might go sixty forty.
So that's seven million dollars, which is the first prize.
The trainers and jockey's percentage comes out, so takes it
(01:42):
down to six. If we're fifty to fifty, you get
three million, as we do as a slot holders, and
they get three million. Now most of the big corporations
are involved, and this can actually use it as tax
deductibility as a marketing expense, so the actual six hundred
won't cost them six hundred much my marketing expenses. But
they're still negotiations to be done, and you're still going
(02:02):
to find a horse. And if you find a horse
three months ago and it loses form, you might have
to go point another horse. So there's a whole array
of politics and interesting machinations around the entire thing, and
people who want to work with each other and don't
want to work with each other, and Howard aligns with
their brand. It's really fascinating. It's part election, part nrl
(02:25):
AFL draft type thing and part horse race. And then
once all of that's happened, Piney, then we get to
quarter past six to night. The horses don't hear, they
get in the barriers and inside sixty eight seconds they
did the up twenty million dollars. So it's one of
the world's richest sporting events but also one of the
(02:46):
world's quickest.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Indeed so quick. Now. I read your piece this morning
in the Herald and you pointed out that the Everest
was set up to showcase Australian sprinting prowess. But there
are a couple of Kiwi horses who are probably favorite.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Meck, yeah, they are the favorite. So there's two New
Zealand owned horses in the race, I Wish I Win,
which races in the tab slot and they have an
enormous array of promotions around him. And then there's a
horse called Jolie Star who's owned by Cambridge stud Brendan
and Joe Lindsey, who didn't race that many horses. Ten
(03:20):
years ago. Brendan Lindsay, famous for setting up and then
selling Systeamer the Plastic found business for six hundred and
six million dollars. He bought Cambridge start off there now
late Sir Patrick Hogan, and has tipped an enormous amount
of money into rebuilding it. Now. This will be a
huge coupe for the New Zealand industry because if I
wish I win, wins his father Savabiel the Stallion stands
(03:44):
in my cutol If Jolie Star winds, she'll return home
to New Zealand to become a brood met. It's one
of the most valuable horses on Earth. Female horses anyway,
So New Zealand horses are basically breed more to win
sixteen hundred to twenty four hundred or thirty two hundred
that been the Melbourne Cup distances. The European horses a
(04:06):
bread for twenty four to thirty two. But the Australians
are speed mad. They love fast, quick horses who run
up two and three. So for us to be first
and second favorites to win a race set up for
Australian horses would almost be a little bit like I've
mentioned the NRL World Cup soccer for league, so the
(04:27):
League World Cup, it'd be like the Kiwis playing Tonga
in the final and all the Australians and the Kangaroo
supporters having to watch. That's what it will be like
if we manage to pull this off today at Randwick.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
How strong is the competition maker? Who are the big
threats to our two Kiwi horses?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Well, you're talking about big boys here, but the people
involved in this stuff make the people who run the
America's Cup look like they we're going to store like.
You've got Godolphin, who are the Arabs who not only
own most of the oil wells in Dubai but also
Emirates they own the airline, so there serious people. Then
you've got Corball, who are the world leaders and horse
(05:08):
racing who were set up on the back of Magna's breweries.
And again they're talking you're getting involved with the billionaires.
And then you've got a guy called mister Jiang from
China who owns you Long and he has been buying
horses like Imperators, the New Zealand horse he paid six
point six million dollars for this year. He'll buy horses
for a million dollars on a woman. It is. These
(05:29):
are serious, serious players and the money involved is astronomical.
So not only I know some people think, well, that
doesn't affect me. It's not just about them. There's other
horses in the race who are owned by syndicates. One
of the horses is owned by a syndicate which has
a childcare worker involved. Just some normal lady who's enjoying
her life, had a couple percentage points on a horse
(05:51):
and now she's going head to head with Sheik Muhammed
who owns Go Dolphin, and are all in there in
their boxes today. Each horse and slot gets a box
and the horses don't know who owned them. That's the
majesty of racing is once you've got the horse, no
matter how much money you've spent on it, they don't know.
This race could be won by a horse who costs
ten million, or it could be one by a horse
(06:13):
who cost one hundred thousand dollars. So the horses the
key we have to beat. I think the three year
olds are the big danger and they are owned by
the superpowers. Stormboy owned by Coolmore Traffic Warden owned by Godolphin,
and the horse I like each way in the race
Growing Empire owned by you Long, which is out of China.
(06:34):
So the New Zealanders are up against it. But at
this stage, about five hours out from the race or
four hours out from the race, they are the favorites.
The weather is good in Sydney and the track is
a soft five piney, so that means it's pretty much perfect.
No one will be disadvantaged or advantage either way.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Now, the TAB res also giving punters here a chance
to win ten million dollars if we can pick the
correct finishing order of all twelve runners. Now that sounds
difficult mat but I think last year somebody did.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah I do for Morgan got it remarkable. So it's free. Basically,
if you're a TAB customer, it's free. If you're a
TV customer, you can log on to your website, you
don't have to put any money, and you can open
a TIB account with two dollars. This is not just
about gambling, and if you don't feel like gambling, don't
get but you can enter this competition for free. It's
(07:26):
like a free Loto ticket and you probably won't win.
But it's good fun. I entered and I can win
on I do some work for the tab, but Piney,
you can anybody listeningers can need to just go to
tab dot co, dot MZ and you've got to pick
all twelve horses in the correct finishing audit. If you
don't know anything, look go and favoritism or to go
(07:46):
in your favorite colors. It really doesn't matter. It's a
free loto ticket. As I said, somebody pulled it off
last year and an Auckland man got ten million tax
free Piney, so ironically he won more money than all
those people were talking about who actually had a horse
in the race.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Incredible. I thought I was going to do it then
MC I'd go. I wish I went in Jolly Star
one and two, so i'd have that for starters. Would
I be on the right track.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Look the market that that's the dividends for the horse,
and suggestion would be I like growing empire off back him.
It's one of those things with gambling. Not everybody should gamble.
If you have no disposable income and you and the
family are doing things stuff, then don't you. But if
you have got twenty dollars, which is what it cost
you to go to the movies, and you want to
have a bit of fun this afternoon. What would I do? Well,
(08:35):
you're already going to be riding the kiwis I wish
I win and Jolie Stark because you're a New Zealander
and you want them to win, because it's a big deal.
So what I'd do is back growing empire. He's eight dollars,
did your ten dollars each way on it and again
bit responsibly. But if you've got that sort of coin
in your pocket, it's not a disaster. It rolls on
the wins. You turned twenty into one hundred, and all
(08:56):
of a sudden, you're not going to the movies tonight.
Maybe you're going out for dinner. That's what I would do, Poney.
It's a very even race and by no means an
easy race to pick. But I can't for estimate to
you how difficult it is to get a horse into
this race, like you are rarely playing with the world leaders.
So to have two New Zealand horses not only in
(09:17):
the race, but to be favored and knowing that could
have future impact on our breeding. As I said, to
explain it to people, who are listening to this who
don't care about racing. It's a little bit like if
we had two guys who played in the EPL, We'll
keep the soccer thing for today. If we had two
kids from New Zealand who ended up playing in the
EPL and then they ended up in the Champions League,
(09:40):
you're up against the best in the world. I realized
soccer is by far bigger England horse racing, but the
chances of doing it are that difficult because there are
so many horses bred and any horse in the world
is eligible for this race. Horses have come from overseas
for it before, so that's how hard there is to
get here. Then, Piney, you've got to win.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You've painted a brilliant picture for us. What's what sort
of crowd will they get at RAMD with today?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Sold out forty six thousand people. That's all they are
actually allowed to have because of the logistics of the
place and how many bathrooms they need and how many
security starts and all that needs sold out three days before. Now,
when you think about sport in Australia, there's only about
three sports that ever sell out. Rugby no longer sells out,
not really maybe the All Brick Keise might, but only
(10:29):
if the Eulbricks are playing the Willies. Obviously NARL can
sell out a final, they didn't sell out their recent
final because of the makeup of the two teams not
being Sydney based teams, and soccer can sell out clearly,
particularly when you play in Melbourne or Sydney a CE
they can sell out a big event, and obviously AFL
can sell out something, but obviously they actually play their
(10:50):
biggest games at the G. It's incredibly hard in Australia
to sell out a sporting event because there's so much
sport on here, So in Sydney to sell out three
days beforehand for forty six thousand tickets. And racing's a
varsity different animal from other rays. From other days. You
can to any ral final when your jeans and your boots,
you don't need to prepare takes. It's a lot goes
(11:11):
into racing today. The amount of money this day would
pour into the Sydney economy is staggering, just through people
who buying suits and buying stuff and going out for
dinners and breakfast and staying in hotels. Every economic study
you see about major racement Engton. We're about to have
one in christ Church for the carnival down there. They
have significantly more impact on the city economically than an
(11:34):
Ordex test because not only do more people travel for
it behind it, but they stay for longer, they spend
more money when they're there, and that's why these huge
cities like Melbourne and Sydney have these huge carnivals because
the money goes back into them and that's one of
the key things. Anybody who works in christ Rich's hospitality
will tell you the biggest week of the year is
(11:55):
cut week in christ Church and that's the same for
many many towns and cities around New Zealand and Australia.
So racing is not everybody's cup of teeth on it.
I absolutely get that and respect it. There is undeniably
a huge economic driver for that type of stuff, even
in a place as big as Sydney.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
MC. Great to get the chance to chat to you.
Thanks for painting such a good picture for us. All
the best this afternoon. Catch up again soon. No thanks
for taking our.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Call, Binnie. We appreciate the chet made and asty congratulations
to open the seed. Everybody involved. It is no small undertaking.
I hope everybody enjoys liten.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
This game, Tom Man, mcthanks. Indeed, that's New Zealand Herald
Racing editor mcgarren absolute authority on horse racing, with some
very sensible messaging there as well. Yeah, the everest it
jumps at six point fifteen this evening, New Zealand time
at Ramwick and Sydney. I wish I win one of
the favorites, the other Kiwi horse, Jolly Starr, A couple
(12:53):
of keiw horses up against up against some of the
fastest in Australia. What it makes a sixty eight seconds
incredible incredible stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Paine, listen live
to News Talks it B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.