November 9, 2024 • 18 mins
Black Caps bowler Neil Wagner is considered one of New Zealand's cricket greats.
His new memoir All Out expands on his sporting triumphs and tells his story all the way from his humble start in working-class Pretoria.
He joined Piney to explain further.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Neil Wagner had one of the great New Zealand Test
cricket careers.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Side New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Staling Test Match.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, one of the most famous Test matches and Neil
Wagner front and center for it. He played sixty four
Test matches for New Zealand, took two hundred and sixty wickets,
the fifth most by any New Zealand bowler at an
average of twenty seven point five to seven and an
exceptional strike rate of a wicket every fifty two deliveries.
(00:55):
Of the New Zealand bowlers who have taken more than
one hundred Test wickets, he is second only to Sir
Richard Hadley in terms of the number of balls bowled
per wicket taken. But it was his approach to the game,
his lion hearted attitude, has never say die mentality, and
his willingness to run and ball after ball, over after over,
(01:16):
regardless of the conditions or the match situation, and never
give an opposition better a second's rest, which endeared him
to New Zealand cricket fans. His autobiography is out it's
all out and your wager is in studio. Great to
see you, mate. How did you find the process of
(01:36):
writing the book.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Yeah, I've got a lot of more respeaks for people
who write a book now Number one. Number two sort
of felt like counseling in a way a little bit. Yeah,
it was. It wasn't easy to obviously get a lot
of stuff out that a lot of things that my
family member's, close friends, a lot of people wouldn't have
known about me. You sort of had to give them
(02:00):
a heads up before the book obviously came out to
say hey, so that they don't read it in there
for the first time. But to open up and sort
of put everything out there. It's not easy. You know
everyone's going to know everything about you. But personally wanted
to make an impact and tell a pretty cool story
that you know, my career has sort of been through
and what I've went through. So so, yeah, hopefully can
(02:23):
make an impact in one person's life, I'll be pretty satisfied.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Sometimes cricket auto biographies in particular can become a bit
of a list of games that you played and the
runs you scored, the work at you took, that sort
of thing. But this book is so much more than that,
as you've just alluded to there. How keen were you
for it to be a true account of the many
ups and downs in your life?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
I think there was the reason why I, you know,
wanted to write a book. At first.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
You know, I got hounded by James Roader, the writer
to write this book, and I.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Kept saying, nah, nah, I don't want to do it.
I don't want to do it.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
You know, I hate making anything sort of about me
or something like that, so I was a little bit
against it. And yeah, after you know, retirement and and
sitting down reflecting, and you know, I had a couple
of a couple of whiskeys one night with my wife
sitting down, and I rang them up and said, let's
write this book and put it on paper because I'll
change my mind tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
And then I thought, you know, I'm going to have
to go all out here.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
I'm going to have to try and try and explain
and give a real in depth I guess sort of background,
and I guess tell the whole story and people might
understand a little bit more and see why, you know,
my veins popped every time I guess celebrated wicket and
got extremely animated. I think this will give a lot
of people a lot of insight and reasons behind the
(03:43):
scenes and will know a lot more well.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
It certainly did for me. It's a terrific read. Neil,
congratulations on it. I know many people will find it
hard to correlate the confidence with which you played your cricket.
You know that, as you say that, how pumped up
you were, how outwardly exuberant you always were with the
off field challenges you talk about in the book at
its worst, the self doubt that you talk about in
(04:08):
the book at its worst, How bad was that?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Extremely bad at times when when you're on the fringe
and you don't know if you're going to play or not.
You know, you find out the morning of the teast
if you're going to be twelve and you're playing the
night before, not being able to sleep, you know, worrying
about if you're going to play or not, the uncontrollable
things of you.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
You're sort of just you.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Know, playing around your head and then finding out you're
not playing.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Was disappointed.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
But then when you do play, you're excited, but then
the nerves straight away kick then the anxiety, I guess,
the fear of failure, those sort of things. You know,
when you've done one your career but you don't get
a chance in white ball, cricket or and other things,
you sort of doubt yourself, you know, like are you
just you know, having a bit of luck or you know,
are you actually good enough? Why you're not seen to
(04:56):
I guess get you know, go to another step further,
or do better or do more. You know, there's there's
a lot of anxiety around that. And then when you
did well and performed, was to keep performing and keep
doing well. And then we had extremely good crop of
fast ballers around bringing down your neck the whole time.
Seeing you had to be at the top of your game.
(05:17):
Any anytime you sort of slip up, someone else is
going to take that opportunity and that could be a
career over. So yeah, that came with a lot of
challenges on and off the field. Came a lot of
things that you had to try and put aside because
I was tiring and it was draining mentally, it was
definitely fatiguing.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So for me, it was quite nice.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
That I could channel that I guess stuff and to
bowling bounces, I.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Guess indeed, I want to talk about some of the highs.
But but first of all, when do you reckon you
were bowling at your absolute best? Is there a sweet
spot in your career?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Yeah, I definitely fill two and sixteen, probably two, you know,
I think a year before I retired it was probably
the best. I think, you know, as situation sort of
went on, as you grew in confidence, as you had
I guess you could put away that fear and anxiety
in that streets when your place got a little bit
(06:15):
more cemented and you knew we're going to play and
you can park those things up and you had a
good night's sleep beforehand, and you can just worry about
the job that you need to do. But once you
had a bit more experience it wasn't new, and you
had a couple of games behind your belt, it became easier.
And then it was sort of just get stuck into
your work sort of thing, you know, and the rhythm
was sort of there, and things sort of felt like
(06:36):
it was easier to kind of deal with the other challenges.
Was tough with your body when you had to you know,
they aches and pains and you know, the soreness. You
had to try and go through that and buite through it.
There was a challenge with it itself as well, where
you know, there's times you felt like maybe you should
sit this one out, but then I was just thinking
(06:58):
deep and it was amazing to see what you could
then do, what you could achieve. You know, how far
you could actually push your body, and where I thought
I couldn't play that test, all of a sudden you
played a whole series, played three Test matches and.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Got through it.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
It was amazing to see and that gave yourself again
that confidence to be able to know how far you
can push your body.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I want to ask you about a couple of specific
Test matches which fall towards the back end of your career.
The World Test Championship final win over India twenty twenty one.
I love your account of it in the book, and
I love Trent Bolt saying as Kan and Ross Taylor
out there, Look, if you have to go and you
could get ted runs, you could get ted runs, I
(07:34):
could get five runs. We're going to get there. I mean,
that's a great memory. But what are your most vivid
memories of the World Test Championship win.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
That was probably the longest test of my whole career,
not just because it had six days with the extra day.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
It was because we.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Stayed at the ground and your room staring looking at
the ground, waking up six o'clock in the morning and
you can hear the carvers coming off and the lawnmow
starting up and working and stuff like that. It was
pretty surreal because we normally don't stay at the ground.
You sort of drive in with a bus and you
sort of far away. But it just felt like you
were con this game and the at the ground and
(08:09):
never a way So that was extremely draining afterwards. But yeah,
it was an amazing test to be a part of.
Just the EBB and flover sitting around waiting with whether
so many things have happened in it. But it was
just an amazing game of cricket to be involved in,
and definitely obviously for me the pinnacle of the game.
And to be able to beat an India team equality
(08:30):
team in a final like that was.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Was high quality.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
And here we've gone this team and back that up
and beat them three all in India over the past months.
An amazing achievement and that will be the pinnacle of
I guess and a lot of those guys career as
one of the best achievements they would have ever had.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
The one run win over England at the basin after
following on. Take us inside your head as you line
up to bowlder Jimmy Anderson, England and nine down they
need to to win.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Again, the ebbs and flows of the game where you
feel like in control. You feel like, you know, we've
done hard work. We've gone through two innings after being
made follow on. You know, the man of work those
batt put into to get us in a good position,
and all of a sudden, a couple of wickets full
you feel like you're going to you know, this is it,
We're going to win this game. Then a partnership between
(09:18):
Stokes and Roots sort of brings that back down again
and put you under pressure and finally get their wickets
and you feel like, okay, this is it.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
This is the moment too. You know we've got a
sniff here.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
And then James Anderson pulls me through Kane's legs out
of nowhere for four and I thought, Jesus, is it.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
You know it's not meant to be.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
You've got to get back to your top of your
mark and you know, put that behind you and find
a way of doing something, believing that we can win
this and thank goodness, will a little tickle down legs side,
But yeah, it was. It was definitely, you know, the
highlight of a career, something that you know you look
back on fondly and always remember. And the moments afterwards
in the change room of your your mates, you know,
(09:56):
drinking a couple of nice cold beers. Those are the
moments you can remember, the smile on everyone's faces, and
it's the thing you miss the most.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
The next teest after that trianchor in christ at the
end of that summer, you've got a torn hamstring and
a bulging disc in your back, chasing two eighty five
to win. Matt Henry gets out five to win. You
go out there to join Kine with one run to win.
You sprint twenty meters dive fall length with a torn
hamstring and a bulging disk in your back to run
(10:24):
the buy that wins the game. On your thirty seventh birthday.
I mean, come on, God, that's up there.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah, I had to do something.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
I was bloody frustrated that I got injured, and you know,
not playing a part of the game and sitting there watching,
you know, you feel helpless. It was.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
It's one of the.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Worst things as sports when you're they're injured in the
side and you watch your mates, you know, grinding away,
and I just felt like I want to do something.
I wanted to contribute somewhere, you know, you want to
get amongst it. And it's amazing thing and drilling and
a couple of painkillers what it can do. Chogged out
there and sort of tested the hamstring out and loot, Yeah,
I can do this. Until I started running their foot
that run, I felt like I was pulling an eighteen
(11:03):
year old truck, but eventually got there. But yeah, it
was It was just nice to be out there, I
guess in a moment where Caine played such an amazing
innings instead of us home. You know, he's done it
so many times, but to be there, I guess again,
in the most of it and a part of it,
it was a huge, a huge privilege and a huge honor,
you know, to to represent his zeland, but to be
(11:25):
there in a winning a moment like that as yeah,
as pretty special.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Now can you talk us through the conversations that led
to your international retirement.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, it was tough.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
There was one of the hardest things I think I've
ever had to go through as a sportsman, as a player.
You know, when you feel like you still have something
to offer and you're there, you know, yeah, age is
for me personally, just a number. I'm still playing cricket
the moment domestically and still feel like, you know, you
can get a job done. But you know, I kind
of feel like, yeah, when when you're not doing as
(11:58):
well or you know you're going through a bit of
a tough patch. Sometimes it's part a parcel of this
sport and the nature of it, and you know you're
only one get him away from from that swinging round
and you know what you can do with the experience
you've you've gone through throughout the years, and and sort
of felt like, you know, I still had a bit
to offer to to get pulled up aside, and you know,
(12:19):
I guess theah the words where you know gets told
you your your career is over and we think you
should retires.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
It's tough, you know, you know, it.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Took a while to to sink in. It took a
while to to realize that, you know, for the team
and for the best thing forward that it might be
the right decision and it's something that I am going
to have to do, and you know, you think about
the team first, I guess in that moment. But yeah,
it wasn't easy. It's it's a tough thing. And like
I said, when you when you treasure something so much
(12:49):
and it's been such a big part of you for
so long and you want to be out there to
to create more memories, to know that it just stops
an instant like that, Yeah it wasn't easy, but hey,
it's part of life and part of a sportsman's journey,
I guess in a way. And again that's what I
wanted to try and get across in this book because
the learnings of that is that I'm probably not the
(13:12):
only guy to go through this. I probably won't be
the only guy to go through this, and other people
will go through it as well.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
The mental stuff with that afterwards again was brutal.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
You know, the lows you feel with that and having
to pick yourself up again and go again, it's pretty tough.
And that's what I wanted to try and achieve out
of this book is to hopefully have an impact in
someone's life, because I know about a couple of people
doing it pretty tough out there at the moment.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
They're not alone. There's a lot of people go through
these sort of things. Of course.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
The two guys so you had the conversation worth or
two of them were Gary Stead and Tim Soudy, coach
and captain at the time. How's your relationship with those
two guys?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Now, I've got a very good relationship with Tim, you know.
I've you know, sent him a text last night again
congratulating him with this.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
You know, he is a good mate.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
We've we've shared the change room, you know, and some
real highs and lows together and a huge friendship and
we'll be friends a life, you know. It's one thing
of this whole black cap set up. It's been pretty
amazing in that sense. And with Gary, you know, I
don't think it could have been easy for him. I
haven't really spoken to him after that, but I know,
(14:19):
you know, as a coach, it can't be it can't
be easy thing to do, and it's part of your job,
I guess in nature. But yeah, haven't really really spoken
to him afterwards. But yeah, somewhere somewhere down the line
will probably sit down every somewhere.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
What drove you to give absolutely everything you did when
you had not just the silver fern on your chest
but any cricket shirt on. What where did that drive
come from?
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
The once in will to you know, I guess achieve
your dream and your goal that you wanted to do
number one, but number two, having felt throughout your whole
life that you're not really getting back to or people
don't really see what you feel or believe that you
can do. You know, you don't really get the backing,
or you don't really feel like people believe that you
(15:10):
can do.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I guess the job as good as other people can.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
And so for me it was ultimately, you know, you
sort of always felt like you beck a little bit
against the wall and you've got to go out and
prove yourself over and over again. And I just had
to find this way of trying to prove people wrong
and show them and say, hey, I can do this job,
and I'll do it all day long. And that drove
me to you know, stand up the whole time. The
(15:33):
amount of times they had to fall down and get
back up again was sort of something that told you
a lot and I guess my wife was a huge
driver beyond the scenes with a lot of things, the
stuff she had to go through as well, and the
support she had to give me for my family and
stuff like that. You know, I knew it's a little
bit more than just playing for myself.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
You're representing them.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
You're playing for them as well, and to give them
a better life and put a roof over your head.
You know, there's a lot of stuff writing on this,
so you had to try and find a way and
there swee all their passion and sort of came in
and tried to deliver every time. I, you know, had
that fund on my chest.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Do you ever wonder what would have happened if you
hadn't accepted the offer to come to Otaga.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Gosh, I'll probably still live in my parents. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Gosh, I've been trying to find some sort of job somewhere. Yeah,
I don't know. It would have been a tough one.
There's so many ways we could look at it. I
don't know what have happened if I signed a county contract,
you know for two years, it would have been a considerb.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
More amount of money.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
You know, If I would have just finished as a
county cricket player, or just you know, it might have
gone a different route and not play cricket as long
as I have or achieve what I have. But yeah,
no way do I ever had any thoughts of looking back,
going what for what?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
How?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
It's just, you know, jumped at the opportunity, jumped on
that plane, and I sort of never looked back ever since.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
We recently did a poll on the air. We put
together a list of New Zealand sports people who should
never ever have to buy a beer again. You've got
heaps of votes. Man, do people buy you beers? They
surely do.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Maybe there's been a couple and I really appreciate it.
It's been pretty kind and pretty generous. There's been a
couple of times where people have rocked up of a
beer and it's been you know, you sort of feel
a little bit embarrassed, but it has been very awesome
to see how people have got around it and done
that by no means expected at all. I'd love to
actually just buy them a beer back, to be honest,
(17:33):
but yeah, it just shows you the nature and the
generosity and the kindness of Kiwis and how they get
amongst things and support sport and people, and it's body
awesome to see.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure
kneel across your career. Where delighted you accepted the offer
to come to Otago then obviously qualified to play for
New Zealand and did it for so long with such
humility but such exuberance, such success and a part of
a huge, hugely successful era in New Zealand cricket. The
book is cracking, mate, It's a really good read. I'd
recommend it to anybodyrect on this and on your career.
(18:08):
Thanks for taking the time for a chat.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Thank you so much appreciateing this.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Thanks mate, Thank you Neil, thanks for stopping in, mate,
Neil Wagner. All out the name of the book it is,
it's a it's a beauty. It's I read a lot
of sporting autobiographies and as I said to Wegg's at
the start of that chat, you know often they can
just be oh, we played this team and here's what happened.
But there's a lot more to this one, a lot
more to it. I would recommend it all out.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
It's called for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine.
Listen live to news Talk said B weekends from midday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Neil Wagner had one of the great New Zealand Test
cricket careers.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Side New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Staling Test Match.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, one of the most famous Test matches and Neil
Wagner front and center for it. He played sixty four
Test matches for New Zealand, took two hundred and sixty wickets,
the fifth most by any New Zealand bowler at an
average of twenty seven point five to seven and an
exceptional strike rate of a wicket every fifty two deliveries.
(00:55):
Of the New Zealand bowlers who have taken more than
one hundred Test wickets, he is second only to Sir
Richard Hadley in terms of the number of balls bowled
per wicket taken. But it was his approach to the game,
his lion hearted attitude, has never say die mentality, and
his willingness to run and ball after ball, over after over,
(01:16):
regardless of the conditions or the match situation, and never
give an opposition better a second's rest, which endeared him
to New Zealand cricket fans. His autobiography is out it's
all out and your wager is in studio. Great to
see you, mate. How did you find the process of
(01:36):
writing the book.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Yeah, I've got a lot of more respeaks for people
who write a book now Number one. Number two sort
of felt like counseling in a way a little bit. Yeah,
it was. It wasn't easy to obviously get a lot
of stuff out that a lot of things that my
family member's, close friends, a lot of people wouldn't have
known about me. You sort of had to give them
(02:00):
a heads up before the book obviously came out to
say hey, so that they don't read it in there
for the first time. But to open up and sort
of put everything out there. It's not easy. You know
everyone's going to know everything about you. But personally wanted
to make an impact and tell a pretty cool story
that you know, my career has sort of been through
and what I've went through. So so, yeah, hopefully can
(02:23):
make an impact in one person's life, I'll be pretty satisfied.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Sometimes cricket auto biographies in particular can become a bit
of a list of games that you played and the
runs you scored, the work at you took, that sort
of thing. But this book is so much more than that,
as you've just alluded to there. How keen were you
for it to be a true account of the many
ups and downs in your life?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
I think there was the reason why I, you know,
wanted to write a book. At first.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
You know, I got hounded by James Roader, the writer
to write this book, and I.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Kept saying, nah, nah, I don't want to do it.
I don't want to do it.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
You know, I hate making anything sort of about me
or something like that, so I was a little bit
against it. And yeah, after you know, retirement and and
sitting down reflecting, and you know, I had a couple
of a couple of whiskeys one night with my wife
sitting down, and I rang them up and said, let's
write this book and put it on paper because I'll
change my mind tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
And then I thought, you know, I'm going to have
to go all out here.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
I'm going to have to try and try and explain
and give a real in depth I guess sort of background,
and I guess tell the whole story and people might
understand a little bit more and see why, you know,
my veins popped every time I guess celebrated wicket and
got extremely animated. I think this will give a lot
of people a lot of insight and reasons behind the
(03:43):
scenes and will know a lot more well.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
It certainly did for me. It's a terrific read. Neil,
congratulations on it. I know many people will find it
hard to correlate the confidence with which you played your cricket.
You know that, as you say that, how pumped up
you were, how outwardly exuberant you always were with the
off field challenges you talk about in the book at
its worst, the self doubt that you talk about in
(04:08):
the book at its worst, How bad was that?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Extremely bad at times when when you're on the fringe
and you don't know if you're going to play or not.
You know, you find out the morning of the teast
if you're going to be twelve and you're playing the
night before, not being able to sleep, you know, worrying
about if you're going to play or not, the uncontrollable
things of you.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
You're sort of just you.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Know, playing around your head and then finding out you're
not playing.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Was disappointed.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
But then when you do play, you're excited, but then
the nerves straight away kick then the anxiety, I guess,
the fear of failure, those sort of things. You know,
when you've done one your career but you don't get
a chance in white ball, cricket or and other things,
you sort of doubt yourself, you know, like are you
just you know, having a bit of luck or you know,
are you actually good enough? Why you're not seen to
(04:56):
I guess get you know, go to another step further,
or do better or do more. You know, there's there's
a lot of anxiety around that. And then when you
did well and performed, was to keep performing and keep
doing well. And then we had extremely good crop of
fast ballers around bringing down your neck the whole time.
Seeing you had to be at the top of your game.
(05:17):
Any anytime you sort of slip up, someone else is
going to take that opportunity and that could be a
career over. So yeah, that came with a lot of
challenges on and off the field. Came a lot of
things that you had to try and put aside because
I was tiring and it was draining mentally, it was
definitely fatiguing.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So for me, it was quite nice.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
That I could channel that I guess stuff and to
bowling bounces, I.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Guess indeed, I want to talk about some of the highs.
But but first of all, when do you reckon you
were bowling at your absolute best? Is there a sweet
spot in your career?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Yeah, I definitely fill two and sixteen, probably two, you know,
I think a year before I retired it was probably
the best. I think, you know, as situation sort of
went on, as you grew in confidence, as you had
I guess you could put away that fear and anxiety
in that streets when your place got a little bit
(06:15):
more cemented and you knew we're going to play and
you can park those things up and you had a
good night's sleep beforehand, and you can just worry about
the job that you need to do. But once you
had a bit more experience it wasn't new, and you
had a couple of games behind your belt, it became easier.
And then it was sort of just get stuck into
your work sort of thing, you know, and the rhythm
was sort of there, and things sort of felt like
(06:36):
it was easier to kind of deal with the other challenges.
Was tough with your body when you had to you know,
they aches and pains and you know, the soreness. You
had to try and go through that and buite through it.
There was a challenge with it itself as well, where
you know, there's times you felt like maybe you should
sit this one out, but then I was just thinking
(06:58):
deep and it was amazing to see what you could
then do, what you could achieve. You know, how far
you could actually push your body, and where I thought
I couldn't play that test, all of a sudden you
played a whole series, played three Test matches and.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Got through it.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
It was amazing to see and that gave yourself again
that confidence to be able to know how far you
can push your body.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I want to ask you about a couple of specific
Test matches which fall towards the back end of your career.
The World Test Championship final win over India twenty twenty one.
I love your account of it in the book, and
I love Trent Bolt saying as Kan and Ross Taylor
out there, Look, if you have to go and you
could get ted runs, you could get ted runs, I
(07:34):
could get five runs. We're going to get there. I mean,
that's a great memory. But what are your most vivid
memories of the World Test Championship win.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
That was probably the longest test of my whole career,
not just because it had six days with the extra day.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
It was because we.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Stayed at the ground and your room staring looking at
the ground, waking up six o'clock in the morning and
you can hear the carvers coming off and the lawnmow
starting up and working and stuff like that. It was
pretty surreal because we normally don't stay at the ground.
You sort of drive in with a bus and you
sort of far away. But it just felt like you
were con this game and the at the ground and
(08:09):
never a way So that was extremely draining afterwards. But yeah,
it was an amazing test to be a part of.
Just the EBB and flover sitting around waiting with whether
so many things have happened in it. But it was
just an amazing game of cricket to be involved in,
and definitely obviously for me the pinnacle of the game.
And to be able to beat an India team equality
(08:30):
team in a final like that was.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Was high quality.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
And here we've gone this team and back that up
and beat them three all in India over the past months.
An amazing achievement and that will be the pinnacle of
I guess and a lot of those guys career as
one of the best achievements they would have ever had.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
The one run win over England at the basin after
following on. Take us inside your head as you line
up to bowlder Jimmy Anderson, England and nine down they
need to to win.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Again, the ebbs and flows of the game where you
feel like in control. You feel like, you know, we've
done hard work. We've gone through two innings after being
made follow on. You know, the man of work those
batt put into to get us in a good position,
and all of a sudden, a couple of wickets full
you feel like you're going to you know, this is it,
We're going to win this game. Then a partnership between
(09:18):
Stokes and Roots sort of brings that back down again
and put you under pressure and finally get their wickets
and you feel like, okay, this is it.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
This is the moment too. You know we've got a
sniff here.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
And then James Anderson pulls me through Kane's legs out
of nowhere for four and I thought, Jesus, is it.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
You know it's not meant to be.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
You've got to get back to your top of your
mark and you know, put that behind you and find
a way of doing something, believing that we can win
this and thank goodness, will a little tickle down legs side,
But yeah, it was. It was definitely, you know, the
highlight of a career, something that you know you look
back on fondly and always remember. And the moments afterwards
in the change room of your your mates, you know,
(09:56):
drinking a couple of nice cold beers. Those are the
moments you can remember, the smile on everyone's faces, and
it's the thing you miss the most.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
The next teest after that trianchor in christ at the
end of that summer, you've got a torn hamstring and
a bulging disc in your back, chasing two eighty five
to win. Matt Henry gets out five to win. You
go out there to join Kine with one run to win.
You sprint twenty meters dive fall length with a torn
hamstring and a bulging disk in your back to run
(10:24):
the buy that wins the game. On your thirty seventh birthday.
I mean, come on, God, that's up there.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah, I had to do something.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
I was bloody frustrated that I got injured, and you know,
not playing a part of the game and sitting there watching,
you know, you feel helpless. It was.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
It's one of the.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Worst things as sports when you're they're injured in the
side and you watch your mates, you know, grinding away,
and I just felt like I want to do something.
I wanted to contribute somewhere, you know, you want to
get amongst it. And it's amazing thing and drilling and
a couple of painkillers what it can do. Chogged out
there and sort of tested the hamstring out and loot, Yeah,
I can do this. Until I started running their foot
that run, I felt like I was pulling an eighteen
(11:03):
year old truck, but eventually got there. But yeah, it
was It was just nice to be out there, I
guess in a moment where Caine played such an amazing
innings instead of us home. You know, he's done it
so many times, but to be there, I guess again,
in the most of it and a part of it,
it was a huge, a huge privilege and a huge honor,
you know, to to represent his zeland, but to be
(11:25):
there in a winning a moment like that as yeah,
as pretty special.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Now can you talk us through the conversations that led
to your international retirement.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, it was tough.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
There was one of the hardest things I think I've
ever had to go through as a sportsman, as a player.
You know, when you feel like you still have something
to offer and you're there, you know, yeah, age is
for me personally, just a number. I'm still playing cricket
the moment domestically and still feel like, you know, you
can get a job done. But you know, I kind
of feel like, yeah, when when you're not doing as
(11:58):
well or you know you're going through a bit of
a tough patch. Sometimes it's part a parcel of this
sport and the nature of it, and you know you're
only one get him away from from that swinging round
and you know what you can do with the experience
you've you've gone through throughout the years, and and sort
of felt like, you know, I still had a bit
to offer to to get pulled up aside, and you know,
(12:19):
I guess theah the words where you know gets told
you your your career is over and we think you
should retires.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
It's tough, you know, you know, it.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Took a while to to sink in. It took a
while to to realize that, you know, for the team
and for the best thing forward that it might be
the right decision and it's something that I am going
to have to do, and you know, you think about
the team first, I guess in that moment. But yeah,
it wasn't easy. It's it's a tough thing. And like
I said, when you when you treasure something so much
(12:49):
and it's been such a big part of you for
so long and you want to be out there to
to create more memories, to know that it just stops
an instant like that, Yeah it wasn't easy, but hey,
it's part of life and part of a sportsman's journey,
I guess in a way. And again that's what I
wanted to try and get across in this book because
the learnings of that is that I'm probably not the
(13:12):
only guy to go through this. I probably won't be
the only guy to go through this, and other people
will go through it as well.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
The mental stuff with that afterwards again was brutal.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
You know, the lows you feel with that and having
to pick yourself up again and go again, it's pretty tough.
And that's what I wanted to try and achieve out
of this book is to hopefully have an impact in
someone's life, because I know about a couple of people
doing it pretty tough out there at the moment.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
They're not alone. There's a lot of people go through
these sort of things. Of course.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
The two guys so you had the conversation worth or
two of them were Gary Stead and Tim Soudy, coach
and captain at the time. How's your relationship with those
two guys?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Now, I've got a very good relationship with Tim, you know.
I've you know, sent him a text last night again
congratulating him with this.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
You know, he is a good mate.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
We've we've shared the change room, you know, and some
real highs and lows together and a huge friendship and
we'll be friends a life, you know. It's one thing
of this whole black cap set up. It's been pretty
amazing in that sense. And with Gary, you know, I
don't think it could have been easy for him. I
haven't really spoken to him after that, but I know,
(14:19):
you know, as a coach, it can't be it can't
be easy thing to do, and it's part of your job,
I guess in nature. But yeah, haven't really really spoken
to him afterwards. But yeah, somewhere somewhere down the line
will probably sit down every somewhere.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
What drove you to give absolutely everything you did when
you had not just the silver fern on your chest
but any cricket shirt on. What where did that drive
come from?
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
The once in will to you know, I guess achieve
your dream and your goal that you wanted to do
number one, but number two, having felt throughout your whole
life that you're not really getting back to or people
don't really see what you feel or believe that you
can do. You know, you don't really get the backing,
or you don't really feel like people believe that you
(15:10):
can do.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I guess the job as good as other people can.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
And so for me it was ultimately, you know, you
sort of always felt like you beck a little bit
against the wall and you've got to go out and
prove yourself over and over again. And I just had
to find this way of trying to prove people wrong
and show them and say, hey, I can do this job,
and I'll do it all day long. And that drove
me to you know, stand up the whole time. The
(15:33):
amount of times they had to fall down and get
back up again was sort of something that told you
a lot and I guess my wife was a huge
driver beyond the scenes with a lot of things, the
stuff she had to go through as well, and the
support she had to give me for my family and
stuff like that. You know, I knew it's a little
bit more than just playing for myself.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
You're representing them.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
You're playing for them as well, and to give them
a better life and put a roof over your head.
You know, there's a lot of stuff writing on this,
so you had to try and find a way and
there swee all their passion and sort of came in
and tried to deliver every time. I, you know, had
that fund on my chest.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Do you ever wonder what would have happened if you
hadn't accepted the offer to come to Otaga.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Gosh, I'll probably still live in my parents. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Gosh, I've been trying to find some sort of job somewhere. Yeah,
I don't know. It would have been a tough one.
There's so many ways we could look at it. I
don't know what have happened if I signed a county contract,
you know for two years, it would have been a considerb.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
More amount of money.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
You know, If I would have just finished as a
county cricket player, or just you know, it might have
gone a different route and not play cricket as long
as I have or achieve what I have. But yeah,
no way do I ever had any thoughts of looking back,
going what for what?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
How?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
It's just, you know, jumped at the opportunity, jumped on
that plane, and I sort of never looked back ever since.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
We recently did a poll on the air. We put
together a list of New Zealand sports people who should
never ever have to buy a beer again. You've got
heaps of votes. Man, do people buy you beers? They
surely do.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Maybe there's been a couple and I really appreciate it.
It's been pretty kind and pretty generous. There's been a
couple of times where people have rocked up of a
beer and it's been you know, you sort of feel
a little bit embarrassed, but it has been very awesome
to see how people have got around it and done
that by no means expected at all. I'd love to
actually just buy them a beer back, to be honest,
(17:33):
but yeah, it just shows you the nature and the
generosity and the kindness of Kiwis and how they get
amongst things and support sport and people, and it's body
awesome to see.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure
kneel across your career. Where delighted you accepted the offer
to come to Otago then obviously qualified to play for
New Zealand and did it for so long with such
humility but such exuberance, such success and a part of
a huge, hugely successful era in New Zealand cricket. The
book is cracking, mate, It's a really good read. I'd
recommend it to anybodyrect on this and on your career.
(18:08):
Thanks for taking the time for a chat.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Thank you so much appreciateing this.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Thanks mate, Thank you Neil, thanks for stopping in, mate,
Neil Wagner. All out the name of the book it is,
it's a it's a beauty. It's I read a lot
of sporting autobiographies and as I said to Wegg's at
the start of that chat, you know often they can
just be oh, we played this team and here's what happened.
But there's a lot more to this one, a lot
more to it. I would recommend it all out.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
It's called for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine.
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