July 12, 2025 • 11 mins
Confidence is building in the All Blacks as they delivered a far more convincing performance over the French following their struggles to put their opposition away in Dunedin
Former England international and expert rugby analyst Thomas Waldrom recaps the All Blacks much improved performance in Wellington.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks edb Roy God.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I've got right. They have nothing for a try.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Will Jordan on time number forty one Jeth level.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
That's forty one tries now for Will Jordan in forty
three tests.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It's madness.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
The strike rate with which he scores tries. The All
Blacks record is forty nine, held by Doug Hallett. He's
got forty one now. It's a pretty tough year for
the All Blacks, but depending on how many of the
test matches Will Jordan plays, he could get there. He
could bring up fifty by the end of the year. Astonishing.
Let's bring in form of Mary All Blacks, Hurricanes and
(00:52):
Crusaders Lucy and England International now expert analyst on our
News Talks EDB. Wellington Commentary's Thomas Waldrom Thomas, thanks for
your time man. How much improvement did you see last
night from the All Blacks compared to last weekends in Dunedin.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, I think that's the thing. They sort of second
week together now, like actually paint a probab game instead
of training and stuff like that, so you can tell
that everything was sort of clicking more and I think
they probably had a bit more look at the French
and you saw a couple of players that they throw
the line out there. They did, so they've definitely done
their homework during the week and you can tell that
they're definitely prepared a lot better this week.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yeah, I want to come to the lineouts at the moment,
but you know, I think we do we have to
sort of limitary expectations of the All Blacks in Week
one of any year, I think we could spect them.
They came out and put fifty on everybody. But do
we need to have to do we need to be
a little bit less expectant in the first Test match
of a calendar year.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I think so. And I think we sort of just
sometimes we just worry about the opposition a bit too much
in New gn And and they they haven't bore their
best team or a little bit negative. I think. Yeah,
I think it's always the tough. You saw South Africa
battle as well against Italy, so everyone sort of all
the sort of someone hemans where guys that's sort of
starting this season where all the northern guys are finishing
(02:04):
And you probably could tell that even last night the Lions,
where the Australia in Z team probably just didn't gel
quick enough. And these boys have been together, they've had
there what four or fifth game, So yeah, this probably
is a tough one first up, but the less the
thing that you can always get better from that one. Anyway.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yeah, that's a great point. So let's look at the lineouse.
The first three All Blacks tries came from lineouts, So
how much work goes into striking like that from set piece?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Oh messively and less the thing. It's just the guys
that are probably the line out leaders are looking opportunities
and because yes, I think you just want to win.
You want to win your ball most of the time.
But then if you see opportunities that they must have
picked out there. The nine in the twenty two probably
defense at the back of the lineout and the two
might cover a bit quickly for the drive. So yeah,
you see opportunities and less the thing when you got
(02:54):
well the whole squad maybe what twenty foards or so
looking at different parts of the lineout, someone always picks
up something that you can exploit. And I think all
Blacks definitely saw there yesterday.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah, Bryan Evans must be pretty stoked Day's coming as
line out coach and know the scoring tries for fun
from lineout.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Oh definitely. And that's the thing is stampings mark on it,
and I think that's the same as the driving nine
outs as well. Probably the last couple of years, Jone's
probably been the best at it because of Jason Ryan
of what he's brought to the Crusaders like stop it
in the mall as massive, and I know New Genre
has done a lot of work on that. So yes,
big credits of both coaches sort of getting these forwards
(03:31):
in the right space nine times out of ten?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Do you like to poor vity at six?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
I had a question mark about it, but to be
to be, fear's probably been the best for them on
the last two weeks, So yeah, that's the thing. Has
when I was sort of resourcing for the under twenties,
must have been for about four or five years ago.
When I came back, we didn't have any locks and
I was sorry. He had a buntance of locks, but
no six and we were tended to take him as
(04:00):
a sex as well before COVID hit, So yeah, there
was potential we were going to look at him at
six anyway. But no, he's definitely stepped up their void
and sort of smesh with both hands.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Really he had look he has is it? I don't know.
I don't think.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
I don't feel like every lock can play six, you know,
So what is it about to Borvai in particular, you know,
that would would allow him perhaps to take ownership of
this six jersey moving forward?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, And I think you sort of look at all
the six as we've had in the past, like Jerome Ko,
like the ones that have stayed there, like Jerry, what's
you know, what's the difference with them? I think it's
the X factor. They've got something like Jeri on defense.
You you want to go anywhere near him with you
if you've got the ball in hand, and same as Jerome,
And I think Tubby has actually got a presence in
(04:46):
their space. So I think it's yeah, some of them
just thinking about him the last couple of weeks. I
think all the well, yeah, he's he's good in the
open as well, so he's got some pace behind him
unless sort of yeah, what.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You need it helps in the line out too?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Are going back to that, doesn't it When you've effectively
got three locks in the lineout and Christian Leo Williardi
Savilla plenty of options ad lineout time. So when Wallace
Stiti comes back, can you see against South Africa Via
at six, Saver at seven, SA Titi at eight.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Yeah, I think you've got to give him a crck there.
So I know the Frenches and the as they say,
didn't bring their best team, but you still got to
play what's in front of you. Where Africa will be
a big big test watching them, watching the highlights before though,
they're so physical, just in your face, so it's going
to be some different people are going to come against
(05:37):
and just even this school like you know Whide but
they had a couple tries where three or four passes
on the outside all ball in front of them, So
it's going to definitely be a bigger challenge. But I
still think he deserves a shot there.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
You were renowned for your physicality and you weren't the
biggest guy.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
How much of it is mental?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I think quite a lot. But yeah, so that's because
as I tell you, I like you just yeah, I
think if you overthink it, and I was pretty lucky
I didn't have many injuries in my career and stuff.
So I didn't really have any doubts of, well, well
my body couldn't handle this or couldn't do this, and
I was just probably just head down and just going
as hard as you can for as long as you can.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And I mean it sounds I don't know physicality.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
It's such an interesting concept to meet Thomas, you know,
having never been in the situation.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
You know, I just feel like you know, I have
do you just have to.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Accept that you're going to actually put your body through
a bit across the eighty minutes?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Oh, you definitely, yeah, And that's and that's the good
thing about being like being professional you because you've got
weeks and months and stuff like that as at a
stop start when you get injured. But I was lucky
enough I could always have you just string Like I
always say to people, you can string five or six
games eighty minute performances you set up for a long
while if you if you don't get injured, and you
(06:52):
can just keep going and you just have to, yeah,
deal with the after myth on a Saturday about how
you recover and stuff like that as well. So talk
me a while to understand recovery. But once you understand
it and know why why it's so important. It's it's
a it's a great tool to have as well.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
The yellow card to boat and bear it last night
for that knockdown. As a player, what are you supposed
to do in that situation.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, that's a that's a tough one as well. Yeah,
there's instincts and there's opportunities that you see that you
sort of go, ah, I'm a blot of position, but
if I can grab the ball, I go for it.
And it's it's been a hard one for a few
years where any put your if you put your hand out,
you're going to be in trouble to go straight to ground. Well,
(07:40):
probably I'd look at it more as if your partners
facing up, because then you're you're trying to catch it,
an't you. You're trying to beat it up, so you've
got more time to get it. But then if your
hands down, it's sort of a different way that you
you have got no attempt to get it whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Really, Yeah, I understand the I think we all understand
the intent of the law, don't. Well, you don't want
a guy, you know, batting a ball down when there's
an overlap on the outside. But I, like I said,
I think in your position of the hands a great,
great way of looking at it.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I'm not sure what else Bowden Barrack can do.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
I just think he's he's just in a natural position
the balls set his hand, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, And because I thought it was a bit weird
as well, because I see it wrong where the team
I said it was a forward pass anyway.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, and I well, I actually thought the French flag
knocked it on too, So yeah's going on there? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So when he said as a forward pass, so the
trial was never going to stand. So did that count
they're out from body? Yeah, I would have thought they
would have counted everything out of it was a normal
pass and it happened then potentially, But yeah, forward pass
and the knockdown in ten minutes, it's pretty tough, I
think absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I totally agree. You played a bit of rugby at
that ground.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Well, it actually wasn't too bad last night weather wise,
but you know, it does blow, it does swirl around.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
How tricky is that venue to play in?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It is.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
But that's the thing that's when you understand it and
you know where the wind's coming from and best taking
advantage of it. That's the thing. Having a few one
in some players like Jordie Jordia would have directed a
lot of players and he would have known that that's
the thing. But their grounds amazing because the mant of
rain we've headed one into and I've sort of watched
a couple of club rugby games yesterday and college rugby.
(09:16):
The grounds were just soaking. There was just mud everywhere
and there was no running rugby. It was just tucking
up to the forward. So to see the crown and
how pristine it is, it was awesome.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
All right.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
And just to finish the all Blacks know they've won
the series. Now France know they've lost the series, and
I'm sure they're probably just wanting to get home. What
do you expect to happen and tease three in Hamilton
next weekend?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, I think because it is the last game of
the season as well. I think after this they go
back and they sort of they have five or six
weeks off to go back to their clubs and stuff,
so I think they I'm hoping that they throw everything
at it because nothing to lose, they sort of enjoy
the week. I don't from what I learned they're going
to Hamilton. Know they they're going straight to Auckland.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That's the French.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Yeah, no, that yeah, I think I'm not sure. I
think the All Blacks might be going to Hamilton. I
think France, I said, and I will come down the
day before or something.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah. Yeah, so that's the much show that they partially
will go to Auckland and enjoy themselves up there and
experience what Orkland has an officer and stuff. So yeah,
so I think they want to probably experience a bit
of New Zealand. So yes, the last game, I know
this thing. I'm hoping they'd just sort of come out
I have no fear and maybe stick to the A
(10:26):
team that he thinks he's just going to go on
one sort of instead of chopping and changing theirteen guys.
I think it's pretty tough as well, So hopefully you
can stick with a solid fifteen and then go after
it for that for the French anyway.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
But tough on the tourism industry of Hamilton's done.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Not going to Hamilton, no exactly. And yeah, I just yeah,
I had an when they were questioning that they were
just like, oh, now we're going to Auckland. There was
no Yeah, there was no how Cam you're not. They
just didn't have the same thing.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
They realized we're just not going to We're just not
going until the game. Good stuff, Thomas. Hi, great to
get your analysis, Mite. Thanks for taking the tom this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Mate'll talk you so yeah, look forward to mate.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Thomas Waldrum, former Hurricanes Crusaders, Maori, all Blacks England loose.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Forward for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen
live to News Talk set B weekends from midday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks edb Roy God.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I've got right. They have nothing for a try.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Will Jordan on time number forty one Jeth level.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
That's forty one tries now for Will Jordan in forty
three tests.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It's madness.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
The strike rate with which he scores tries. The All
Blacks record is forty nine, held by Doug Hallett. He's
got forty one now. It's a pretty tough year for
the All Blacks, but depending on how many of the
test matches Will Jordan plays, he could get there. He
could bring up fifty by the end of the year. Astonishing.
Let's bring in form of Mary All Blacks, Hurricanes and
(00:52):
Crusaders Lucy and England International now expert analyst on our
News Talks EDB. Wellington Commentary's Thomas Waldrom Thomas, thanks for
your time man. How much improvement did you see last
night from the All Blacks compared to last weekends in Dunedin.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, I think that's the thing. They sort of second
week together now, like actually paint a probab game instead
of training and stuff like that, so you can tell
that everything was sort of clicking more and I think
they probably had a bit more look at the French
and you saw a couple of players that they throw
the line out there. They did, so they've definitely done
their homework during the week and you can tell that
they're definitely prepared a lot better this week.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yeah, I want to come to the lineouts at the moment,
but you know, I think we do we have to
sort of limitary expectations of the All Blacks in Week
one of any year, I think we could spect them.
They came out and put fifty on everybody. But do
we need to have to do we need to be
a little bit less expectant in the first Test match
of a calendar year.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I think so. And I think we sort of just
sometimes we just worry about the opposition a bit too much
in New gn And and they they haven't bore their
best team or a little bit negative. I think. Yeah,
I think it's always the tough. You saw South Africa
battle as well against Italy, so everyone sort of all
the sort of someone hemans where guys that's sort of
starting this season where all the northern guys are finishing
(02:04):
And you probably could tell that even last night the Lions,
where the Australia in Z team probably just didn't gel
quick enough. And these boys have been together, they've had
there what four or fifth game, So yeah, this probably
is a tough one first up, but the less the
thing that you can always get better from that one. Anyway.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yeah, that's a great point. So let's look at the lineouse.
The first three All Blacks tries came from lineouts, So
how much work goes into striking like that from set piece?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Oh messively and less the thing. It's just the guys
that are probably the line out leaders are looking opportunities
and because yes, I think you just want to win.
You want to win your ball most of the time.
But then if you see opportunities that they must have
picked out there. The nine in the twenty two probably
defense at the back of the lineout and the two
might cover a bit quickly for the drive. So yeah,
you see opportunities and less the thing when you got
(02:54):
well the whole squad maybe what twenty foards or so
looking at different parts of the lineout, someone always picks
up something that you can exploit. And I think all
Blacks definitely saw there yesterday.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah, Bryan Evans must be pretty stoked Day's coming as
line out coach and know the scoring tries for fun
from lineout.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Oh definitely. And that's the thing is stampings mark on it,
and I think that's the same as the driving nine
outs as well. Probably the last couple of years, Jone's
probably been the best at it because of Jason Ryan
of what he's brought to the Crusaders like stop it
in the mall as massive, and I know New Genre
has done a lot of work on that. So yes,
big credits of both coaches sort of getting these forwards
(03:31):
in the right space nine times out of ten?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Do you like to poor vity at six?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
I had a question mark about it, but to be
to be, fear's probably been the best for them on
the last two weeks, So yeah, that's the thing. Has
when I was sort of resourcing for the under twenties,
must have been for about four or five years ago.
When I came back, we didn't have any locks and
I was sorry. He had a buntance of locks, but
no six and we were tended to take him as
(04:00):
a sex as well before COVID hit, So yeah, there
was potential we were going to look at him at
six anyway. But no, he's definitely stepped up their void
and sort of smesh with both hands.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Really he had look he has is it? I don't know.
I don't think.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
I don't feel like every lock can play six, you know,
So what is it about to Borvai in particular, you know,
that would would allow him perhaps to take ownership of
this six jersey moving forward?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, And I think you sort of look at all
the six as we've had in the past, like Jerome Ko,
like the ones that have stayed there, like Jerry, what's
you know, what's the difference with them? I think it's
the X factor. They've got something like Jeri on defense.
You you want to go anywhere near him with you
if you've got the ball in hand, and same as Jerome,
And I think Tubby has actually got a presence in
(04:46):
their space. So I think it's yeah, some of them
just thinking about him the last couple of weeks. I
think all the well, yeah, he's he's good in the
open as well, so he's got some pace behind him
unless sort of yeah, what.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You need it helps in the line out too?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Are going back to that, doesn't it When you've effectively
got three locks in the lineout and Christian Leo Williardi
Savilla plenty of options ad lineout time. So when Wallace
Stiti comes back, can you see against South Africa Via
at six, Saver at seven, SA Titi at eight.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Yeah, I think you've got to give him a crck there.
So I know the Frenches and the as they say,
didn't bring their best team, but you still got to
play what's in front of you. Where Africa will be
a big big test watching them, watching the highlights before though,
they're so physical, just in your face, so it's going
to be some different people are going to come against
(05:37):
and just even this school like you know Whide but
they had a couple tries where three or four passes
on the outside all ball in front of them, So
it's going to definitely be a bigger challenge. But I
still think he deserves a shot there.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
You were renowned for your physicality and you weren't the
biggest guy.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
How much of it is mental?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I think quite a lot. But yeah, so that's because
as I tell you, I like you just yeah, I
think if you overthink it, and I was pretty lucky
I didn't have many injuries in my career and stuff.
So I didn't really have any doubts of, well, well
my body couldn't handle this or couldn't do this, and
I was just probably just head down and just going
as hard as you can for as long as you can.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And I mean it sounds I don't know physicality.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
It's such an interesting concept to meet Thomas, you know,
having never been in the situation.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
You know, I just feel like you know, I have
do you just have to.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Accept that you're going to actually put your body through
a bit across the eighty minutes?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Oh, you definitely, yeah, And that's and that's the good
thing about being like being professional you because you've got
weeks and months and stuff like that as at a
stop start when you get injured. But I was lucky
enough I could always have you just string Like I
always say to people, you can string five or six
games eighty minute performances you set up for a long
while if you if you don't get injured, and you
(06:52):
can just keep going and you just have to, yeah,
deal with the after myth on a Saturday about how
you recover and stuff like that as well. So talk
me a while to understand recovery. But once you understand
it and know why why it's so important. It's it's
a it's a great tool to have as well.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
The yellow card to boat and bear it last night
for that knockdown. As a player, what are you supposed
to do in that situation.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, that's a that's a tough one as well. Yeah,
there's instincts and there's opportunities that you see that you
sort of go, ah, I'm a blot of position, but
if I can grab the ball, I go for it.
And it's it's been a hard one for a few
years where any put your if you put your hand out,
you're going to be in trouble to go straight to ground. Well,
(07:40):
probably I'd look at it more as if your partners
facing up, because then you're you're trying to catch it,
an't you. You're trying to beat it up, so you've
got more time to get it. But then if your
hands down, it's sort of a different way that you
you have got no attempt to get it whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Really, Yeah, I understand the I think we all understand
the intent of the law, don't. Well, you don't want
a guy, you know, batting a ball down when there's
an overlap on the outside. But I, like I said,
I think in your position of the hands a great,
great way of looking at it.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I'm not sure what else Bowden Barrack can do.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
I just think he's he's just in a natural position
the balls set his hand, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, And because I thought it was a bit weird
as well, because I see it wrong where the team
I said it was a forward pass anyway.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, and I well, I actually thought the French flag
knocked it on too, So yeah's going on there? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So when he said as a forward pass, so the
trial was never going to stand. So did that count
they're out from body? Yeah, I would have thought they
would have counted everything out of it was a normal
pass and it happened then potentially, But yeah, forward pass
and the knockdown in ten minutes, it's pretty tough, I
think absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I totally agree. You played a bit of rugby at
that ground.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Well, it actually wasn't too bad last night weather wise,
but you know, it does blow, it does swirl around.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
How tricky is that venue to play in?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It is.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
But that's the thing that's when you understand it and
you know where the wind's coming from and best taking
advantage of it. That's the thing. Having a few one
in some players like Jordie Jordia would have directed a
lot of players and he would have known that that's
the thing. But their grounds amazing because the mant of
rain we've headed one into and I've sort of watched
a couple of club rugby games yesterday and college rugby.
(09:16):
The grounds were just soaking. There was just mud everywhere
and there was no running rugby. It was just tucking
up to the forward. So to see the crown and
how pristine it is, it was awesome.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
All right.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
And just to finish the all Blacks know they've won
the series. Now France know they've lost the series, and
I'm sure they're probably just wanting to get home. What
do you expect to happen and tease three in Hamilton
next weekend?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, I think because it is the last game of
the season as well. I think after this they go
back and they sort of they have five or six
weeks off to go back to their clubs and stuff,
so I think they I'm hoping that they throw everything
at it because nothing to lose, they sort of enjoy
the week. I don't from what I learned they're going
to Hamilton. Know they they're going straight to Auckland.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That's the French.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Yeah, no, that yeah, I think I'm not sure. I
think the All Blacks might be going to Hamilton. I
think France, I said, and I will come down the
day before or something.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah. Yeah, so that's the much show that they partially
will go to Auckland and enjoy themselves up there and
experience what Orkland has an officer and stuff. So yeah,
so I think they want to probably experience a bit
of New Zealand. So yes, the last game, I know
this thing. I'm hoping they'd just sort of come out
I have no fear and maybe stick to the A
(10:26):
team that he thinks he's just going to go on
one sort of instead of chopping and changing theirteen guys.
I think it's pretty tough as well, So hopefully you
can stick with a solid fifteen and then go after
it for that for the French anyway.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
But tough on the tourism industry of Hamilton's done.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Not going to Hamilton, no exactly. And yeah, I just yeah,
I had an when they were questioning that they were
just like, oh, now we're going to Auckland. There was
no Yeah, there was no how Cam you're not. They
just didn't have the same thing.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
They realized we're just not going to We're just not
going until the game. Good stuff, Thomas. Hi, great to
get your analysis, Mite. Thanks for taking the tom this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Mate'll talk you so yeah, look forward to mate.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Thomas Waldrum, former Hurricanes Crusaders, Maori, all Blacks England loose.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Forward for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen
live to News Talk set B weekends from midday, or
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