The National Party held its first party conference since entering government over the weekend, where John Key also made an appearance and called to lower the temperature on discussions over race relations.
So how did the conference go, and how heated is the discussion over race relations at the moment?
Newstalk ZB political editor Jason Walls joined Nick Mills.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk, said b Direct from news Talks DB's
team at tolerance the bee Hive Buzz.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Time to go to the Beehive for the bee high Buzz.
It's news Talk said best political edit to Jason Walls morning.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Jason, good morning Neck.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I'm great? Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
The National Party held their conference over the weekend in
South Ortland.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
How did it go and why was it South Autland?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I think it was just South Awkland because they have
a big event cidenter there that can hold a number
of their supporters. I mean they are always very well
attended National Party Conference, isn't It came in a number
of different facets, if you will. There was the Saturday
and the Sunday. Now, the Saturday seemed to be more
aimed at gearing up supporters and rallying them about what
has happened so far and kind of looking ahead to
(00:58):
the future as well. And you had speakers such as
Nikola Willis who consistently keeps hinting about the future of Kiwibank,
that it might be deregulated somehow in terms of getting
it out of public ownership and into more public or
private ownership of anybody that wants a bit of a
cut of that. So we're still waiting to see some
(01:18):
more details on that, but she consistently keeps hinting about this.
And then we had Sylvia Wood, who is the National
Party President, who was talking about how the National Party
needed to evolve and she was particularly looking for more
women amongst their ranks. So there was a lot of that.
And then of course you had the Sunday which was
dominated by the Chris Luxeen speech where he was talking
(01:39):
about or who made this maps announcement in terms of
what they're wanting to do in that area of things.
And of course you had John Key that was there
as well. And no matter how much we talk about
the National Party and the new National Party, Junkie always
enters the discussion. Somehow, the long shadow of the former
Prime Minister is always looming large at any sort of
national conference like this.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Jason, my biggest take with us if someone said to
me on the uber drive and to work this morning,
what did you take out of it National Party conference
over the weekend. Apart from the fact that it was
in South Auckland, Okay, are you putting that's purely down
to one of the venue hirrates. Though I get that,
I would have thought there was a little bit more
into that than they wanted to go into labor territory
and poisterriers or.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Show their muscles. But the biggest thing.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
That came out of that for the weekend for me
was that year eight mass numbers aren't big enough. Now,
is that the major problem that New Zealand's got is
that the major highlight of a national conference?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Oh well, I think that when it comes to big
problems that face the country, education is particularly massive, and
Chris Luxen and his Education Minister Eric is stanf that
have made absolutely no secret of their priorities in terms
of what they're doing in education. And obviously so many
people have kids in New Zealand. It's a major issue.
And I mean just looking at some of the numbers,
(02:58):
I mean, Luxeon over the weekend revealed that he was
pulling together. He had pulled together I mean from some data.
It's some new achievement data that correct limps Insight Progress
study which showed that just twenty two percent of Year
eight students in New Zealand had reached the benchmark for mathematics. Now,
looking at those numbers, people would say those are horrific.
That's a terrible, terrible score and we need to be
(03:20):
doing a lot more when it comes to that issue.
And that's exactly what Chris Luxon said when he got
those numbers. And obviously they had a plan to introduce
structural maths starting in term one twenty twenty five, and
that has come a year earlier than had been anticipated
based on those numbers. So they would be looking at
those numbers and saying that this is a real problem,
(03:40):
we need to do something about it, and he'll argues
that's exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I'm interested to hear what you thought of John key stand.
I mean, he said we need to cool things down
when it comes to race relations. Do you, firstly you
think there's any chance for that? And do you think
he might be having a little dig at the eight
Party and.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Coalition Partners New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I absolutely think that he was having a bit of
a bar at the Act Party. In fact, when he
was talking to Mike Hosking this morning, he specifically said
it was ax Treaty Referendum bill that was stoking a
bit of this and He also went on to say
that he didn't support it, and if John Key doesn't
support it, that's a pretty good indication that the rest
of the party doesn't as well. You'll remember that Chris
(04:24):
Luxon said that the party would support it up to
the second reading, so they'll vote for it in its
first reading so they can get the select committee process,
but it won't go any further than that. But in
terms of cooling things down on race relations, no, there's
absolutely no chance that is going to be happening because
of parties like Tea Party Marty who that is basically
their entire ethos is to stoke this race relations sort
(04:47):
of fire. And I think there is a case to
be made that the media have a bit of a
job here to do. But it's a bit of a
tough one, right because on the one hand, Tea Party
Marty will say something outrageous and then we'll get criticized
for not covering it in a way that we would
if the Act Party or another party would say something
we would put on the front page. But at the
(05:07):
same time, when we do cover it, we get criticized
for actually stoking these race relations fires that were often
criticized for So there's really no winning and I hate
to do this sort of woe is Me media, but
there is no real winners here unless parties like TI
Party Marti, you know, tone it down a bit.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Do you think that that causing the problems or do
you think that it is ACT the treaty stuff. We
just didn't need that in the first couple of years,
did we.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Oh well, I mean, the ACT party will veil argue
that it's not a racist policy that they've had, and
they'll argue that basically looking at the treaty's principle is
fit for purpose now because the Waitani Tribunal has moved
on so significantly from what it was that when it
was set up. However, the others like TI Party Marti
will argue that any sort of treaty tampering with the treaty,
(05:55):
which ACT will say that's not exactly what's happening, shouldn't
be touched because the treaty is our founding documents. So
there's arguments from both sides, but it hasn't been a
civil discussion, and I fear that there's absolutely no way
to have a civil discussion now when we have people
just throwing all sorts of rhetoric around, Like you think
of the way that Tea Party Marty uses words like
how the government wants to quote exterminate Marty, which is
(06:17):
just inflammatory.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Right, Let's talk about the membership because I thought when
I was watching the little bits and pieces that I
saw of the conference, I thought the John Key was
rolled in there to actually talk to try and drum
up more membership. What do we know what the membership
numbers are? Are they down?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Because there was quite a bit of talk of that
as well, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, there was. I think the National Party keeps that
pretty close to their chest in terms of what the
day to day membership numbers are. But I mean you
just have to look at things like the donations. The
National Party gets so more donations than any other political party.
I mean last year we saw it, and it was
an election year. It was between five and eight million dollars,
which is a hefty amount of money. So they'll be
(06:57):
happy with the amount of money that's coming in. However,
you know, to be a political party, you want to
be able to bringing in as much as possible because
if you're bringing in a lot, it means that you're
sort of stifling your political opponents as well, because there's
only a finite amount of money out there. So I
think there's a bit of that going on as well.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Jason, there seems to be a little bit of opposition
to the government's early childhood education changes. Tell me what
the opposition is to what changes.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, this is a really good story Buyer on Azaria Howell,
I'm basically saying that the vast majority of those in
the education sector who gave feedback on the government's ECE
red tape provisions disagreed with the plans as laid out
by Associate Minister of Education David Seymour. So that is
the government is attempting to scrap the network management provisions,
(07:43):
which is currently required sign off from the Minister of
Education in the establishment processes for new ECE centers. So
it's not really that much of a surprise that established
these the centers don't aren't on board with this one.
I mean, David Seymour when he was speaking to Azaria
said that when he made the changes the end of
Life Choice Bill, ninety percent of those consultants is that
(08:05):
they were against. It was a referendum by the public
and it passed by two votes to one. So often
when it comes to these sorts of consultations, you do
get the people that are most against it, that are
the most vocal, So it's not really a surprise at all.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I mean, to pull that one out, I mean, that
has been a hell of a success, But to pull
that one out, that's pretty that's almost comparing elimonade to
a beer. Really, isn't it well in.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Some ways in terms of what it is that is
being compared. I mean, end of life choice is completely
different from ECE, but the principle around consultation is the same.
I mean, that's what governments struggle with quite a lot.
They'll go out for consultation on something and the vast
majority of it often is very negative by people that
are going to be impacted, and you don't hear from
(08:50):
the people that are very positive or the people that
doesn't really affect them very much. So you do tend
to get a bit of a skewed view when it
comes to consultation in some areas.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Now I can't leave you, let you go without asking
about what's happening in the United States, Donald Trump, Camilla Harris.
I just got a feeling that she's going to be Okay,
She's going to do it. Donald Trump seems to have
gone a little bit quiet lately.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Hasn't he?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I know, very un characteristic for somebody like him. And
I think that you know, he doesn't tweet, He uses
his truth social and I don't know how many people
are actually on there, but obviously the stoush brewing over
the when and where to debate Kamala Harris's read its
ugly head with Trump saying that he wants to debate
her on Fox News and Karmlala Harris wanting to debate
(09:35):
on ABC, and I mean it really has come to
bite Trump and the bum because he said, quote he'll
debate Kamala Harris anytime, any place. Well, it turns out
that has really been reduced to just when he wants
and where he wants, rather than any time any place.
So I think that Kamala Harris is definitely developing some
(09:56):
strong momentum that seems to head to head. I think
that's where a lot of voters will make up their mind, and.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
It comes down to Wednesday. Do you reckon that she'll
announce her vice president or yeah, we'll be vice president
wouldn't it, Do you reckon, She'll announce it on Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Look at all signs point to yes. At this stage,
you want to be able to give it a good
lead in time, so the vice President's able to go
out and canvas people and somebody in a swing state
or a state where they really need those Democratic votes
would probably be the best bet.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Do you reckon? Do you give her any sort of chance?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, I mean I think that she's going up against Trump,
who is a strong contender, I would say, but she
has a much better chance than Joe Biden. I think
when Joe Biden was the president, there was a lot
of complacency within the Republicans thinking no, we've got this.
But that complacency seems to have disappeared with Kamala Harris.
And I think that Trump would be watching what's going
(10:48):
on now and knowing what happened to Joe Biden about
and you can see how it takes one debate to
really just destroy the profits of a candidate to know
that his next debate performance is critical against Kamala Harris.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I'm looking forward to that. I beat you too, I
am looking forward to that. I think she's going to
be fine. I heard her after the last debate when
it was cold. She just asked her a few questions after,
you know, after the last debate, and I thought she
was good. I don't think it's going to be I
think it's going to be an interesting debate. I don't
think he's got it all his own way.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I think it's going to be extremely interesting. I'll be
watching as well.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Okay, thanks, Jase, appreciates you as always. Jason Walls is
News Talks a Beast political editor and he's coming out
comes to us live from the Beehive. Keeps us up
to date with what's going on in the Beehive.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to News Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk, said b Direct from news Talks DB's
team at tolerance the bee Hive Buzz.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Time to go to the Beehive for the bee high Buzz.
It's news Talk said best political edit to Jason Walls morning.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Jason, good morning Neck.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I'm great? Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
The National Party held their conference over the weekend in
South Ortland.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
How did it go and why was it South Autland?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I think it was just South Awkland because they have
a big event cidenter there that can hold a number
of their supporters. I mean they are always very well
attended National Party Conference, isn't It came in a number
of different facets, if you will. There was the Saturday
and the Sunday. Now, the Saturday seemed to be more
aimed at gearing up supporters and rallying them about what
has happened so far and kind of looking ahead to
(00:58):
the future as well. And you had speakers such as
Nikola Willis who consistently keeps hinting about the future of Kiwibank,
that it might be deregulated somehow in terms of getting
it out of public ownership and into more public or
private ownership of anybody that wants a bit of a
cut of that. So we're still waiting to see some
(01:18):
more details on that, but she consistently keeps hinting about this.
And then we had Sylvia Wood, who is the National
Party President, who was talking about how the National Party
needed to evolve and she was particularly looking for more
women amongst their ranks. So there was a lot of that.
And then of course you had the Sunday which was
dominated by the Chris Luxeen speech where he was talking
(01:39):
about or who made this maps announcement in terms of
what they're wanting to do in that area of things.
And of course you had John Key that was there
as well. And no matter how much we talk about
the National Party and the new National Party, Junkie always
enters the discussion. Somehow, the long shadow of the former
Prime Minister is always looming large at any sort of
national conference like this.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Jason, my biggest take with us if someone said to
me on the uber drive and to work this morning,
what did you take out of it National Party conference
over the weekend. Apart from the fact that it was
in South Auckland, Okay, are you putting that's purely down
to one of the venue hirrates. Though I get that,
I would have thought there was a little bit more
into that than they wanted to go into labor territory
and poisterriers or.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Show their muscles. But the biggest thing.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
That came out of that for the weekend for me
was that year eight mass numbers aren't big enough. Now,
is that the major problem that New Zealand's got is
that the major highlight of a national conference?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Oh well, I think that when it comes to big
problems that face the country, education is particularly massive, and
Chris Luxen and his Education Minister Eric is stanf that
have made absolutely no secret of their priorities in terms
of what they're doing in education. And obviously so many
people have kids in New Zealand. It's a major issue.
And I mean just looking at some of the numbers,
(02:58):
I mean, Luxeon over the weekend revealed that he was
pulling together. He had pulled together I mean from some data.
It's some new achievement data that correct limps Insight Progress
study which showed that just twenty two percent of Year
eight students in New Zealand had reached the benchmark for mathematics. Now,
looking at those numbers, people would say those are horrific.
That's a terrible, terrible score and we need to be
(03:20):
doing a lot more when it comes to that issue.
And that's exactly what Chris Luxon said when he got
those numbers. And obviously they had a plan to introduce
structural maths starting in term one twenty twenty five, and
that has come a year earlier than had been anticipated
based on those numbers. So they would be looking at
those numbers and saying that this is a real problem,
(03:40):
we need to do something about it, and he'll argues
that's exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I'm interested to hear what you thought of John key stand.
I mean, he said we need to cool things down
when it comes to race relations. Do you, firstly you
think there's any chance for that? And do you think
he might be having a little dig at the eight
Party and.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Coalition Partners New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I absolutely think that he was having a bit of
a bar at the Act Party. In fact, when he
was talking to Mike Hosking this morning, he specifically said
it was ax Treaty Referendum bill that was stoking a
bit of this and He also went on to say
that he didn't support it, and if John Key doesn't
support it, that's a pretty good indication that the rest
of the party doesn't as well. You'll remember that Chris
(04:24):
Luxon said that the party would support it up to
the second reading, so they'll vote for it in its
first reading so they can get the select committee process,
but it won't go any further than that. But in
terms of cooling things down on race relations, no, there's
absolutely no chance that is going to be happening because
of parties like Tea Party Marty who that is basically
their entire ethos is to stoke this race relations sort
(04:47):
of fire. And I think there is a case to
be made that the media have a bit of a
job here to do. But it's a bit of a
tough one, right because on the one hand, Tea Party
Marty will say something outrageous and then we'll get criticized
for not covering it in a way that we would
if the Act Party or another party would say something
we would put on the front page. But at the
(05:07):
same time, when we do cover it, we get criticized
for actually stoking these race relations fires that were often
criticized for So there's really no winning and I hate
to do this sort of woe is Me media, but
there is no real winners here unless parties like TI
Party Marti, you know, tone it down a bit.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Do you think that that causing the problems or do
you think that it is ACT the treaty stuff. We
just didn't need that in the first couple of years,
did we.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Oh well, I mean, the ACT party will veil argue
that it's not a racist policy that they've had, and
they'll argue that basically looking at the treaty's principle is
fit for purpose now because the Waitani Tribunal has moved
on so significantly from what it was that when it
was set up. However, the others like TI Party Marti
will argue that any sort of treaty tampering with the treaty,
(05:55):
which ACT will say that's not exactly what's happening, shouldn't
be touched because the treaty is our founding documents. So
there's arguments from both sides, but it hasn't been a
civil discussion, and I fear that there's absolutely no way
to have a civil discussion now when we have people
just throwing all sorts of rhetoric around, Like you think
of the way that Tea Party Marty uses words like
how the government wants to quote exterminate Marty, which is
(06:17):
just inflammatory.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Right, Let's talk about the membership because I thought when
I was watching the little bits and pieces that I
saw of the conference, I thought the John Key was
rolled in there to actually talk to try and drum
up more membership. What do we know what the membership
numbers are? Are they down?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Because there was quite a bit of talk of that
as well, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, there was. I think the National Party keeps that
pretty close to their chest in terms of what the
day to day membership numbers are. But I mean you
just have to look at things like the donations. The
National Party gets so more donations than any other political party.
I mean last year we saw it, and it was
an election year. It was between five and eight million dollars,
which is a hefty amount of money. So they'll be
(06:57):
happy with the amount of money that's coming in. However,
you know, to be a political party, you want to
be able to bringing in as much as possible because
if you're bringing in a lot, it means that you're
sort of stifling your political opponents as well, because there's
only a finite amount of money out there. So I
think there's a bit of that going on as well.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Jason, there seems to be a little bit of opposition
to the government's early childhood education changes. Tell me what
the opposition is to what changes.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, this is a really good story Buyer on Azaria Howell,
I'm basically saying that the vast majority of those in
the education sector who gave feedback on the government's ECE
red tape provisions disagreed with the plans as laid out
by Associate Minister of Education David Seymour. So that is
the government is attempting to scrap the network management provisions,
(07:43):
which is currently required sign off from the Minister of
Education in the establishment processes for new ECE centers. So
it's not really that much of a surprise that established
these the centers don't aren't on board with this one.
I mean, David Seymour when he was speaking to Azaria
said that when he made the changes the end of
Life Choice Bill, ninety percent of those consultants is that
(08:05):
they were against. It was a referendum by the public
and it passed by two votes to one. So often
when it comes to these sorts of consultations, you do
get the people that are most against it, that are
the most vocal, So it's not really a surprise at all.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I mean, to pull that one out, I mean, that
has been a hell of a success, But to pull
that one out, that's pretty that's almost comparing elimonade to
a beer. Really, isn't it well in.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Some ways in terms of what it is that is
being compared. I mean, end of life choice is completely
different from ECE, but the principle around consultation is the same.
I mean, that's what governments struggle with quite a lot.
They'll go out for consultation on something and the vast
majority of it often is very negative by people that
are going to be impacted, and you don't hear from
(08:50):
the people that are very positive or the people that
doesn't really affect them very much. So you do tend
to get a bit of a skewed view when it
comes to consultation in some areas.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Now I can't leave you, let you go without asking
about what's happening in the United States, Donald Trump, Camilla Harris.
I just got a feeling that she's going to be Okay,
She's going to do it. Donald Trump seems to have
gone a little bit quiet lately.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Hasn't he?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I know, very un characteristic for somebody like him. And
I think that you know, he doesn't tweet, He uses
his truth social and I don't know how many people
are actually on there, but obviously the stoush brewing over
the when and where to debate Kamala Harris's read its
ugly head with Trump saying that he wants to debate
her on Fox News and Karmlala Harris wanting to debate
(09:35):
on ABC, and I mean it really has come to
bite Trump and the bum because he said, quote he'll
debate Kamala Harris anytime, any place. Well, it turns out
that has really been reduced to just when he wants
and where he wants, rather than any time any place.
So I think that Kamala Harris is definitely developing some
(09:56):
strong momentum that seems to head to head. I think
that's where a lot of voters will make up their mind, and.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
It comes down to Wednesday. Do you reckon that she'll
announce her vice president or yeah, we'll be vice president
wouldn't it, Do you reckon, She'll announce it on Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Look at all signs point to yes. At this stage,
you want to be able to give it a good
lead in time, so the vice President's able to go
out and canvas people and somebody in a swing state
or a state where they really need those Democratic votes
would probably be the best bet.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Do you reckon? Do you give her any sort of chance?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, I mean I think that she's going up against Trump,
who is a strong contender, I would say, but she
has a much better chance than Joe Biden. I think
when Joe Biden was the president, there was a lot
of complacency within the Republicans thinking no, we've got this.
But that complacency seems to have disappeared with Kamala Harris.
And I think that Trump would be watching what's going
(10:48):
on now and knowing what happened to Joe Biden about
and you can see how it takes one debate to
really just destroy the profits of a candidate to know
that his next debate performance is critical against Kamala Harris.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I'm looking forward to that. I beat you too, I
am looking forward to that. I think she's going to
be fine. I heard her after the last debate when
it was cold. She just asked her a few questions after,
you know, after the last debate, and I thought she
was good. I don't think it's going to be I
think it's going to be an interesting debate. I don't
think he's got it all his own way.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I think it's going to be extremely interesting. I'll be
watching as well.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Okay, thanks, Jase, appreciates you as always. Jason Walls is
News Talks a Beast political editor and he's coming out
comes to us live from the Beehive. Keeps us up
to date with what's going on in the Beehive.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to News Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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