September 8, 2024 • 8 mins
Labour leader Chris Hipkins is publicly discussing potential taxes that could form Labour policy for the next election - is this a smart political strategy?
And its understood David Seymour's Treaty Principles Bill is before Cabinet today - how long is it until the bill is introduced to Parliament?
Newstalk ZB political editor Jason Walls joined Nick Mills for the Beehive Buzz.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk, said B Direct from news Talk, Saidb's
team at Parliament's the Bee High Buzz.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hipers Johnny Asks for the Bee High Buzz's News Talk,
said be Political editor Jason Wall's morning, Jason.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Good morning neck.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
How are you what a beautiful day in Paradise yesterday?
Were you and Wellington or were you following and sniffing
around a few politicians around the country.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Well I was in Auckland, but I was I believe
it or not. I do have time off from time
to time, so it's up there for a wedding. But
I heard Wellington was good. Apparently there's some sort of
phrase about Wellington on a good day and not being
able to beat it or something. I haven't heard it myself,
but apparently it's well known.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Lucky you're not in the studio with me right now,
because I'm I'm I'm giving you a one finger salute.
Chris have conceives to be doing a bit of media
blitz at the moment the last few days, and he's
talking about tax a lot. I've got this feeling that
he's a bit to reveal that they're going to adopt
a capital gains tax or a wealth tax or some text.
(01:11):
He's just softening the crowd, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Oh yeah, And I think nobody should really be that
surprised that this is happening. I mean, Labor Party have
been talking about capital gains tax on and off now
for decades and it was only somewhat ironically. It's only
when they're in positions to actually do something about it
that they don't do it, and then when they're in
opposition they decide, oh, this is actually something that we
need to do. So it's completely disingenuous from the party.
(01:36):
And I would say anybody that would be thinking of
shifting their vote to the Labor Party because of its
tax policy probably needs to take what's being discussed now
with quite a grain of salt, given the fact that
it was just into o Dern, who was in a
position where she could have put a capital gain tax
through under her government, that decided not just to not
do it, but to rule it out as long as
she was Prime minister. So she was extremely forthright about it.
(01:59):
Forthright about it. Chris Hipkins when he was Prime minister,
he could have run on a campaign of capital gains
tax and put them in when he was the Prime
minister if he got another term. But he decided not
to run on that platform. So now all of a
sudden they're deciding to talk about it again. I think
is incredibly disingenuous. However, you know, as night follows day,
(02:19):
the Labor Party will talk about tax. And I don't
think it's particularly of course they're going to do it.
I think that they've talked about rebalancing the tax system
for some time and they're going to have some sort
of policy on tax. We're still a long way out
from the election, so I'm not surprised to hear them
talking about it, but I would be surprised to see
a policy anytime soon. I think they're going to do
(02:40):
some groundwork for a couple of years so they have
something a little bit more tangible before the next election.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
See. I tend to disagree a little bit with you
because I think that they need to bring in some
sort of capital gains text. I need to bring in
some sort of wealth text to get their loyal labor
supporters back. They've lost them. They've lost them to the Greens,
They've lost them all over the place. They became too
much of a centrous party, and I think that they
realized that if they've got any chance of hell and
it's little or no chance, we all know that of
(03:07):
getting brigading power, they've got to bring their working class
voter back, working you know people back into the party.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, well, it's sort of the question is how they
do that. I mean, they're very boxed in at the
moment the Labor Party. They can't go too far left
because that's a position that's already been occupied by the
Greens and Tea Party Marty. And you're never going to
out left the Greens or Tea Party Marty, So you
can't really be dipping too far into that territory. What
you need to be doing is recapturing the center and
maybe even getting some of those center right votes. So
(03:37):
maybe that's where their strategy lies in the future. I mean,
and the capital gains tax. You know, it is seen
although a lot of economists seat is quite neutral, it
is seen as a left wing strategy and a left
wing position. So you know, there could be an argument
for saying that it's leave it with the Green Party,
leave it with leave it with Tea Party Marty, and
if they kind of come to the center, there's more
(03:58):
votes to be one there. But then again, you know
you're abandoning your values if you're thinking too much about
where you position yourself on the political spectrum.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I think, and that's labor to a t I mean,
that's what they've done wrong. I think, in my humble
opinion from living in a family where labor our lounge
was painted red. A bunch of religious leaders have come
out against David Seymour's treaties Principal Bill, what's the story here, Jayce?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
It's quite an interesting one because you don't actually see
a lot of times religious leaders coming together to do
something like this. I mean they're not I would say
that religious leaders aren't given a lot of airtime in
New Zealand media for a lot of reasons. But there
was a press release this morning. More than four hundred
church leaders, including three Anglican bishops, the Catholic archbishop and
the Catholic Cardinal, as well as a number of others,
(04:43):
including the Salvation Army Commissioner, have come together to sign
an open letter to MPs calling on them to vote
down David City's David Seymour Rather's Treaty Principal's Bill. Now
the bill has not even gone before Parliament yet. We
don't have a draft. Nobody knows what the bill looks like.
All we have is what the Act Party have talked
about publicly. So it is a bit premature them talking
(05:07):
about this, but it also comes, as I understand it,
this Cabinet will today be discussing the Treaties Principles Bill
in the Cabinet meeting this afternoon. So that is the
draft that's going in front of ministers to discuss. We
know that it will go before a first reading because
it's in the National Act Coalition agreement, but their Prime
(05:27):
Minister said it's not going to go any further than that.
They're not going to support it in the second reading,
but it means that it will be debated in the
Select Committee. I'm this one. This I've never heard of
this group before, this group of four hundred people. They're
called Common Grace, Altera Roa. So I did a bit
of reading and they seem frankly, they seem very left wing.
I mean, there's our story. Part of their website says
(05:49):
climate change, inequity and the legacy of colonization are harming
God's Earth and its people, and I mean take out
the God's Earth and its people, take out the God.
It sounds like it's being ripped from the Green Party website.
So I think there's more to this than meets the eye.
I think it's a little bit more coordinated behind the
scenes with some of the bill's biggest opponents. But nevertheless,
(06:10):
it's got headlines across New Zealand and a lot of
people are talking about it ahead of it going before
cabinet this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So where where does that leave us? Where does that
leave us right now?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well, right now, that's exactly what's going to be happening.
I mean the MPs or the ministers will discuss at
this afternoon. Chris Hipkins is going to go before journalists
this afternoon for his post cabinet press conference. One of
us is going to ask did you discuss this in cabinet?
And he's going to tell us we don't discuss what
happens in cabinet, And then we're going to press him
on if his mind has been changed, and he's going
to say, my mind is exactly the same as it
(06:43):
was when you were asking me about this last Is
that because it's an active party National party coalition agreement.
We will support it in the first reading so it
can go through a select committee process, but we will
be voting against it in the second reading. And I
think that's almost a beatum what the Prime Minister is
going to say this afternoon. So nothing really has changed.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
What a complete waste of yours and my hard earned
text by a dollar.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, it depends how you look at it. I mean,
the act Party will argue that this is a conversation
that they think is actually helpful to have about where
the treaty principles are in today's how today's modern environment,
and if they're fit for purpose, and having a select
committee go through that and actually figuring that out is
actually a good thing. We might get a lot of
people that disagree. We might get a lot of people
(07:27):
that agree that having the conversation about it will actually
make us a society a lot better informed about the
Treaty of Wyepungi as well as the principle. So you know,
it could come out to be a good thing that
we all learn about this and a lot of people
that didn't know about it say, hey, I'm actually opposed
to these treaty principles changing because of this, that and
the other reason. Or it could have somebody on the
other hand saying I don't want them to change, and
(07:49):
then actually learning about how they work in the modern
context and they say, well, actually, I don't think that's
fit for purpose. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Good on you. Thanks always a pleasure. Jason Walls. He
is news Talk zibb'st political editor, and he joins us
every Monday morning from the behive.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine a m.
Week days, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk, said B Direct from news Talk, Saidb's
team at Parliament's the Bee High Buzz.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hipers Johnny Asks for the Bee High Buzz's News Talk,
said be Political editor Jason Wall's morning, Jason.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Good morning neck.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
How are you what a beautiful day in Paradise yesterday?
Were you and Wellington or were you following and sniffing
around a few politicians around the country.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Well I was in Auckland, but I was I believe
it or not. I do have time off from time
to time, so it's up there for a wedding. But
I heard Wellington was good. Apparently there's some sort of
phrase about Wellington on a good day and not being
able to beat it or something. I haven't heard it myself,
but apparently it's well known.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Lucky you're not in the studio with me right now,
because I'm I'm I'm giving you a one finger salute.
Chris have conceives to be doing a bit of media
blitz at the moment the last few days, and he's
talking about tax a lot. I've got this feeling that
he's a bit to reveal that they're going to adopt
a capital gains tax or a wealth tax or some text.
(01:11):
He's just softening the crowd, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Oh yeah, And I think nobody should really be that
surprised that this is happening. I mean, Labor Party have
been talking about capital gains tax on and off now
for decades and it was only somewhat ironically. It's only
when they're in positions to actually do something about it
that they don't do it, and then when they're in
opposition they decide, oh, this is actually something that we
need to do. So it's completely disingenuous from the party.
(01:36):
And I would say anybody that would be thinking of
shifting their vote to the Labor Party because of its
tax policy probably needs to take what's being discussed now
with quite a grain of salt, given the fact that
it was just into o Dern, who was in a
position where she could have put a capital gain tax
through under her government, that decided not just to not
do it, but to rule it out as long as
she was Prime minister. So she was extremely forthright about it.
(01:59):
Forthright about it. Chris Hipkins when he was Prime minister,
he could have run on a campaign of capital gains
tax and put them in when he was the Prime
minister if he got another term. But he decided not
to run on that platform. So now all of a
sudden they're deciding to talk about it again. I think
is incredibly disingenuous. However, you know, as night follows day,
(02:19):
the Labor Party will talk about tax. And I don't
think it's particularly of course they're going to do it.
I think that they've talked about rebalancing the tax system
for some time and they're going to have some sort
of policy on tax. We're still a long way out
from the election, so I'm not surprised to hear them
talking about it, but I would be surprised to see
a policy anytime soon. I think they're going to do
(02:40):
some groundwork for a couple of years so they have
something a little bit more tangible before the next election.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
See. I tend to disagree a little bit with you
because I think that they need to bring in some
sort of capital gains text. I need to bring in
some sort of wealth text to get their loyal labor
supporters back. They've lost them. They've lost them to the Greens,
They've lost them all over the place. They became too
much of a centrous party, and I think that they
realized that if they've got any chance of hell and
it's little or no chance, we all know that of
(03:07):
getting brigading power, they've got to bring their working class
voter back, working you know people back into the party.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, well, it's sort of the question is how they
do that. I mean, they're very boxed in at the
moment the Labor Party. They can't go too far left
because that's a position that's already been occupied by the
Greens and Tea Party Marty. And you're never going to
out left the Greens or Tea Party Marty, So you
can't really be dipping too far into that territory. What
you need to be doing is recapturing the center and
maybe even getting some of those center right votes. So
(03:37):
maybe that's where their strategy lies in the future. I mean,
and the capital gains tax. You know, it is seen
although a lot of economists seat is quite neutral, it
is seen as a left wing strategy and a left
wing position. So you know, there could be an argument
for saying that it's leave it with the Green Party,
leave it with leave it with Tea Party Marty, and
if they kind of come to the center, there's more
(03:58):
votes to be one there. But then again, you know
you're abandoning your values if you're thinking too much about
where you position yourself on the political spectrum.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I think, and that's labor to a t I mean,
that's what they've done wrong. I think, in my humble
opinion from living in a family where labor our lounge
was painted red. A bunch of religious leaders have come
out against David Seymour's treaties Principal Bill, what's the story here, Jayce?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
It's quite an interesting one because you don't actually see
a lot of times religious leaders coming together to do
something like this. I mean they're not I would say
that religious leaders aren't given a lot of airtime in
New Zealand media for a lot of reasons. But there
was a press release this morning. More than four hundred
church leaders, including three Anglican bishops, the Catholic archbishop and
the Catholic Cardinal, as well as a number of others,
(04:43):
including the Salvation Army Commissioner, have come together to sign
an open letter to MPs calling on them to vote
down David City's David Seymour Rather's Treaty Principal's Bill. Now
the bill has not even gone before Parliament yet. We
don't have a draft. Nobody knows what the bill looks like.
All we have is what the Act Party have talked
about publicly. So it is a bit premature them talking
(05:07):
about this, but it also comes, as I understand it,
this Cabinet will today be discussing the Treaties Principles Bill
in the Cabinet meeting this afternoon. So that is the
draft that's going in front of ministers to discuss. We
know that it will go before a first reading because
it's in the National Act Coalition agreement, but their Prime
(05:27):
Minister said it's not going to go any further than that.
They're not going to support it in the second reading,
but it means that it will be debated in the
Select Committee. I'm this one. This I've never heard of
this group before, this group of four hundred people. They're
called Common Grace, Altera Roa. So I did a bit
of reading and they seem frankly, they seem very left wing.
I mean, there's our story. Part of their website says
(05:49):
climate change, inequity and the legacy of colonization are harming
God's Earth and its people, and I mean take out
the God's Earth and its people, take out the God.
It sounds like it's being ripped from the Green Party website.
So I think there's more to this than meets the eye.
I think it's a little bit more coordinated behind the
scenes with some of the bill's biggest opponents. But nevertheless,
(06:10):
it's got headlines across New Zealand and a lot of
people are talking about it ahead of it going before
cabinet this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So where where does that leave us? Where does that
leave us right now?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well, right now, that's exactly what's going to be happening.
I mean the MPs or the ministers will discuss at
this afternoon. Chris Hipkins is going to go before journalists
this afternoon for his post cabinet press conference. One of
us is going to ask did you discuss this in cabinet?
And he's going to tell us we don't discuss what
happens in cabinet, And then we're going to press him
on if his mind has been changed, and he's going
to say, my mind is exactly the same as it
(06:43):
was when you were asking me about this last Is
that because it's an active party National party coalition agreement.
We will support it in the first reading so it
can go through a select committee process, but we will
be voting against it in the second reading. And I
think that's almost a beatum what the Prime Minister is
going to say this afternoon. So nothing really has changed.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
What a complete waste of yours and my hard earned
text by a dollar.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, it depends how you look at it. I mean,
the act Party will argue that this is a conversation
that they think is actually helpful to have about where
the treaty principles are in today's how today's modern environment,
and if they're fit for purpose, and having a select
committee go through that and actually figuring that out is
actually a good thing. We might get a lot of
people that disagree. We might get a lot of people
(07:27):
that agree that having the conversation about it will actually
make us a society a lot better informed about the
Treaty of Wyepungi as well as the principle. So you know,
it could come out to be a good thing that
we all learn about this and a lot of people
that didn't know about it say, hey, I'm actually opposed
to these treaty principles changing because of this, that and
the other reason. Or it could have somebody on the
other hand saying I don't want them to change, and
(07:49):
then actually learning about how they work in the modern
context and they say, well, actually, I don't think that's
fit for purpose. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Good on you. Thanks always a pleasure. Jason Walls. He
is news Talk zibb'st political editor, and he joins us
every Monday morning from the behive.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine a m.
Week days, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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