May 25, 2025 • 10 mins
The long awaited handover of the role of Deputy Prime Minister happens this week, with NZ First leader Winston Peters handing the job to Act leader David Seymour. What can we expect from the pair of them in new positions?
Also, the Greens claim there is a nearly billion-dollar hole in the government's budget. Are they right?
Newstalk ZB political editor Jason Walls joined Nick Mills for the Beehive Buzz.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk, said B direct from news Talk, said
B's team at tolerance the bee Hive buzz.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Us joining as for the Beehive buzzes news Talk, said B.
Political edit to Jason Wolves morning, Jason.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Good morning neck.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
How are you to have around a golf over the
weekend after your strong, hard, hard week with the budget?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I did I play with Max Toll you're newsreader over there,
and he's a lot better than I am. But I'm
hoping to catch up on one of these days. I'll
tell you what it is next that he because he's
such a diligent, hard working employee, he starts working about
four am, so he's out of there by about ten
or ten thirty, so he gets the whole afternoon to practice.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm sorry, sorry, I have to correct you a little bit.
He is here till at least twelve thirty one o'clock.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
So Max iFeel listening. I'm so sorry for undervaluing what
you do. But there's still the whole afternoon to go
out and hit some balls.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Okay, all right? Well what you blaming your handicap on time?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
That's what he was does what's that about a bad
workman in his tools?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
That's right? Yeah, anyway, maybe with your new job you'll
be able to spend more time on the golf course. Now,
let's talk what's happening in the behind, because that's what
you're here for. The Greens are claiming they've found a
big hole in the budget. What is it?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
And dear, I sort of woke up and saw this
press release and have flashbacks of my time in the
press gallery when I was in twenty seventeen where Stephen
Joyce said he found an eleven point seven billion dollar
fiscal hole in Labour's books, and Labor came back and
said that wasn't actually the case and that we're back
and forth for what seemed like about thirty five years.
But we saw another one from the Greens this morning.
(01:48):
They said that they had founded the budget that government
had not accounted for the increase of its own employees
on the books over the budget forecast period when it
comes to kiwisaver. So of course you saw in the
budget the increase from progressively from three to three percent
to four percent for the employer contribution. Now this would
and it will hit the government quite hard. It employs
(02:09):
sixty five thousand people or thereabouts, some give or take
depending on the day, and so it's a fair chunk
of change if you're going to look at that number
and start giving them more money for their retirements. Essentially,
in the Greens, you know they are correct. There's no
specific line in the budget that says how much this
is going to cost the government. There's no number in
the budget that actually outlines the liability to the Crown
(02:33):
accounts on this one, but there is. Although there's no numbers,
it was it was cited in something called the specific
Fiscal Risk section of the budget. That is a section
where officials sort of note some of the big changes,
some of the big issues that will cost a lot
of money, but either not for a while or they
can't quantify the cost right now. Think things like what
(02:53):
if there's a big earthquake in Wellington. That sort of
stuff is in the specific Fiscal Risk section. And you know,
as I said, there's no number, and this is in
the specific Fiscal Risk section. But to be fair, what
are the Greens. It's only one sentence in the whole budget.
It says, in addition, there may be increased cost arising
(03:13):
from increases in the employer ken we saver contributions following
Budget twenty five decisions. And that's in this section about
public sector employment agreements. So it is in there, but
there's just not quantified at this stage. The Greens think
that it's going to cost between six hundred and thirty
three and seven hundred and fourteen million dollars, and as
(03:34):
I understand it, the government is in the process of
quantifying this cost or aware that it is going to
hit them. They're just not sure how much money it's
going to be yet, hence why it's in this specific
fiscal risk section and not somewhere where you can actually
quantify it with a number. The numbers that the Greens
have pulled out seem to be a little on the
high side. I don't think it's going to be up
(03:55):
to seven hundred million at all. But the government has
to pay through that for this, either making the government
departments pay for it themselves or adding new money into
next year's budget.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You know what, I might be oversimplifying this right, and
I probably are or got it wrong. And tell me
if I've got it wrong here, surely it's just one percent. Well,
it simple because I mean, they're all going to go
up from three to four percent, So surely it would
be a very simple forget to work.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Out, and I think that's exactly what the Greens have
done looking at this number here. But it's not that
simple because say, if you've got an employer and you're
an employer, you're an employer and you're looking at an employee,
it doesn't necessarily have to be a one percent increase.
You can negotiate with them around with it. If they
want to increase there can we say or offer it
that goes back into their salary. So that's probably why
it's not being quantified yet because they still need to
(04:45):
have these conversations. But you would think on the surface
of it it would be some simple figure like that,
but you know, nothing simple in government.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Well even if it even if it's going back into
this salary, it's one percent, you know, So I just
I don't see that that I think, you know, I
am let's move on. Let's move on, because I'm over
simplifying it and I'm agreeing with the which makes me
feel a bit naisy. It's finally happening. David Seymour switches
with Whinston Peterson becomes Deputy Prime Minister this week. Now
(05:15):
tell me what you're gonna tell me first, and then
I'm going to ask you a question, all.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Right in terms of what I'm going to tell you
about how it plays out, well, I mean it's sort
of so it happens this week. The switchover was always
going to be on the first of June, and that
is this Sunday, So it's going to be you know,
he's not going to be crowned or anything like that.
He's not going to be given a sash. He simply
goes up to the Governor General's residence and he signs
(05:40):
the documents and says I David Breen Seymour do solemnly
swear or whatever it is, and then like that he's
the Deputy Prime Minister. But it means that Winston obviously
the mental has shifted. He was on the Herald Now
this morning when David Seymour talking about it, and he
was very clear on the fact that you know, he's
going to be a statesman. He's going to be the
Deputy Prime Minister, representing both ministers and New Zealand, but
(06:01):
he's still going to be the act Party leader, and
he still needs to represent the constituents that him into Parliament.
And I've always said this on your show and others
that the one thing that's well, not the one thing.
But I think one of the things that the Prime
Minister Chris Luxon has done quite well as being Prime
Minister is his ability to delegate. And when it comes
to these two fellas David Seymour and Winston Peter's actually
(06:24):
allowing them to be themselves rather than this gray mashup
of their party and the government and just kind of
having no firm views and having to step into line
all the time. And it's going to pay dividends to
the next election. So I think he's done quite well
and I think Seymour is going to continue to be
Seymour right.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Oxford Union debate is what I wanted to ask you about,
because obviously our listeners would know that from when the
David LONGI and the Euatheum or whatever it was.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Breath. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, I mean that's the biggest speech in my in
my lifetime. Even though I can't remember what he actually said,
I don't believe and I don't want to think this
as a criticism of David Seymour, but I don't actually
think he's that great a public speaker. I think he's
an amazing on my crophone in a one on one interview,
and I think he's a really very bright guy. I
don't think he's a great public speaker. I think Oxford
(07:14):
University Union debate are actually going to be a little
bit disappointed.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Oh don't. I don't know. I mean, if you put
there is a bit, there's an element of public speaking
in there, but the clue is in the name the debate.
Right now, there are very few in Parliament that I've
seen that combetted David Seymour in a debate. I mean,
he's quick on his feet, he's very good when it
comes to a witty comeback, but he's also extremely across
his brief And there's only one person that I've ever
(07:39):
seen get the better of him in one of these exchanges,
and that's Thomas Coglin of The Herald when they were
talking about the Magna Carta one day and everybody else
was they had their eyes glazed over because they had
no idea what the pair were talking about. But you know,
other things like Guy Williams when he went to have
a crack at David sew Well got absolutely annihilated. So
you don't want to underestimate David Seymour. I mean, you
could disagree or agree with what he says or thinks,
(08:01):
but you don't want to underestimate the guy.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Right. Okay, we'll talk or hear on something about that too,
because I've got a story, but I don't want to
I don't want to put that on air, but we
will over a cup of tea sometime. There's been a
few people Select Committee to look into pay equity changes.
What's going on here.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
It's it's an interesting one. We got the word of
it yesterday that Marilyn Waring, who is of course the
young and or she was at the time the youngest
ever MP and she was this young female MP Muldoon.
She has started this People's Select Committee which is basically
taking ten MP's former MPs from across the political divide,
(08:38):
and Jackie Blue from the Nats, Nanaiamahuta from Labor, and
Sue Bradford as well from from the Greens. A lot
of really sort of these these Wahini with a lot
of mana within the public sector from years of their
service within politics and beyond are going to be sitting
down and essentially doing the Select committee that they said
(08:59):
that the government never did when it came to pay equity,
and it's not binding, like whatever they come up with,
it's not actually going to mean anything in terms of
the function of Parliament. And I'm not expecting Brook van
Velden to reverse everything based on the findings of this.
But Marilyn Wearing this morning, she was doing a stand up,
was talking about how the problem is the process and
there was no Select Committee inquiry here so people could
(09:21):
have their say or really investigate some of the things
that the government had been doing because the government did
put this through under urgency and there had been a
lot of feedback about this one as well. So if anything,
what this is going to do is it's going to
keep the conversation going for the critics of the pay
equity revamp in terms of you know, the Flirfit Simmons
of the unions and the CTU and the others. So
(09:44):
expect to be hearing more about this, but don't expect
it to do anything in terms of changing the government's mind.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I've got a Marilyn Wearing story and to tell you too,
But I don't know whether I can tell it. Can
I tell it on radio? No time.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I'm not going to tell you not to do it
no time.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well, but there used to be a thing when she
was in politics, when I was young, when I was
your agent, that used to say the softest part of
Maryland wearing was her teeth. There you go. I'll leave
it at that. Think about it. It'll come to you.
Thanks very much. Always a pleasure. Jason Wall's news talk
set Be's political editor.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks he'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk, said B direct from news Talk, said
B's team at tolerance the bee Hive buzz.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Us joining as for the Beehive buzzes news Talk, said B.
Political edit to Jason Wolves morning, Jason.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Good morning neck.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
How are you to have around a golf over the
weekend after your strong, hard, hard week with the budget?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I did I play with Max Toll you're newsreader over there,
and he's a lot better than I am. But I'm
hoping to catch up on one of these days. I'll
tell you what it is next that he because he's
such a diligent, hard working employee, he starts working about
four am, so he's out of there by about ten
or ten thirty, so he gets the whole afternoon to practice.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm sorry, sorry, I have to correct you a little bit.
He is here till at least twelve thirty one o'clock.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
So Max iFeel listening. I'm so sorry for undervaluing what
you do. But there's still the whole afternoon to go
out and hit some balls.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Okay, all right? Well what you blaming your handicap on time?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
That's what he was does what's that about a bad
workman in his tools?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
That's right? Yeah, anyway, maybe with your new job you'll
be able to spend more time on the golf course. Now,
let's talk what's happening in the behind, because that's what
you're here for. The Greens are claiming they've found a
big hole in the budget. What is it?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
And dear, I sort of woke up and saw this
press release and have flashbacks of my time in the
press gallery when I was in twenty seventeen where Stephen
Joyce said he found an eleven point seven billion dollar
fiscal hole in Labour's books, and Labor came back and
said that wasn't actually the case and that we're back
and forth for what seemed like about thirty five years.
But we saw another one from the Greens this morning.
(01:48):
They said that they had founded the budget that government
had not accounted for the increase of its own employees
on the books over the budget forecast period when it
comes to kiwisaver. So of course you saw in the
budget the increase from progressively from three to three percent
to four percent for the employer contribution. Now this would
and it will hit the government quite hard. It employs
(02:09):
sixty five thousand people or thereabouts, some give or take
depending on the day, and so it's a fair chunk
of change if you're going to look at that number
and start giving them more money for their retirements. Essentially,
in the Greens, you know they are correct. There's no
specific line in the budget that says how much this
is going to cost the government. There's no number in
the budget that actually outlines the liability to the Crown
(02:33):
accounts on this one, but there is. Although there's no numbers,
it was it was cited in something called the specific
Fiscal Risk section of the budget. That is a section
where officials sort of note some of the big changes,
some of the big issues that will cost a lot
of money, but either not for a while or they
can't quantify the cost right now. Think things like what
(02:53):
if there's a big earthquake in Wellington. That sort of
stuff is in the specific Fiscal Risk section. And you know,
as I said, there's no number, and this is in
the specific Fiscal Risk section. But to be fair, what
are the Greens. It's only one sentence in the whole budget.
It says, in addition, there may be increased cost arising
(03:13):
from increases in the employer ken we saver contributions following
Budget twenty five decisions. And that's in this section about
public sector employment agreements. So it is in there, but
there's just not quantified at this stage. The Greens think
that it's going to cost between six hundred and thirty
three and seven hundred and fourteen million dollars, and as
(03:34):
I understand it, the government is in the process of
quantifying this cost or aware that it is going to
hit them. They're just not sure how much money it's
going to be yet, hence why it's in this specific
fiscal risk section and not somewhere where you can actually
quantify it with a number. The numbers that the Greens
have pulled out seem to be a little on the
high side. I don't think it's going to be up
(03:55):
to seven hundred million at all. But the government has
to pay through that for this, either making the government
departments pay for it themselves or adding new money into
next year's budget.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You know what, I might be oversimplifying this right, and
I probably are or got it wrong. And tell me
if I've got it wrong here, surely it's just one percent. Well,
it simple because I mean, they're all going to go
up from three to four percent, So surely it would
be a very simple forget to work.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Out, and I think that's exactly what the Greens have
done looking at this number here. But it's not that
simple because say, if you've got an employer and you're
an employer, you're an employer and you're looking at an employee,
it doesn't necessarily have to be a one percent increase.
You can negotiate with them around with it. If they
want to increase there can we say or offer it
that goes back into their salary. So that's probably why
it's not being quantified yet because they still need to
(04:45):
have these conversations. But you would think on the surface
of it it would be some simple figure like that,
but you know, nothing simple in government.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Well even if it even if it's going back into
this salary, it's one percent, you know, So I just
I don't see that that I think, you know, I
am let's move on. Let's move on, because I'm over
simplifying it and I'm agreeing with the which makes me
feel a bit naisy. It's finally happening. David Seymour switches
with Whinston Peterson becomes Deputy Prime Minister this week. Now
(05:15):
tell me what you're gonna tell me first, and then
I'm going to ask you a question, all.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Right in terms of what I'm going to tell you
about how it plays out, well, I mean it's sort
of so it happens this week. The switchover was always
going to be on the first of June, and that
is this Sunday, So it's going to be you know,
he's not going to be crowned or anything like that.
He's not going to be given a sash. He simply
goes up to the Governor General's residence and he signs
(05:40):
the documents and says I David Breen Seymour do solemnly
swear or whatever it is, and then like that he's
the Deputy Prime Minister. But it means that Winston obviously
the mental has shifted. He was on the Herald Now
this morning when David Seymour talking about it, and he
was very clear on the fact that you know, he's
going to be a statesman. He's going to be the
Deputy Prime Minister, representing both ministers and New Zealand, but
(06:01):
he's still going to be the act Party leader, and
he still needs to represent the constituents that him into Parliament.
And I've always said this on your show and others
that the one thing that's well, not the one thing.
But I think one of the things that the Prime
Minister Chris Luxon has done quite well as being Prime
Minister is his ability to delegate. And when it comes
to these two fellas David Seymour and Winston Peter's actually
(06:24):
allowing them to be themselves rather than this gray mashup
of their party and the government and just kind of
having no firm views and having to step into line
all the time. And it's going to pay dividends to
the next election. So I think he's done quite well
and I think Seymour is going to continue to be
Seymour right.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Oxford Union debate is what I wanted to ask you about,
because obviously our listeners would know that from when the
David LONGI and the Euatheum or whatever it was.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Breath. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, I mean that's the biggest speech in my in
my lifetime. Even though I can't remember what he actually said,
I don't believe and I don't want to think this
as a criticism of David Seymour, but I don't actually
think he's that great a public speaker. I think he's
an amazing on my crophone in a one on one interview,
and I think he's a really very bright guy. I
don't think he's a great public speaker. I think Oxford
(07:14):
University Union debate are actually going to be a little
bit disappointed.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Oh don't. I don't know. I mean, if you put
there is a bit, there's an element of public speaking
in there, but the clue is in the name the debate.
Right now, there are very few in Parliament that I've
seen that combetted David Seymour in a debate. I mean,
he's quick on his feet, he's very good when it
comes to a witty comeback, but he's also extremely across
his brief And there's only one person that I've ever
(07:39):
seen get the better of him in one of these exchanges,
and that's Thomas Coglin of The Herald when they were
talking about the Magna Carta one day and everybody else
was they had their eyes glazed over because they had
no idea what the pair were talking about. But you know,
other things like Guy Williams when he went to have
a crack at David sew Well got absolutely annihilated. So
you don't want to underestimate David Seymour. I mean, you
could disagree or agree with what he says or thinks,
(08:01):
but you don't want to underestimate the guy.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Right. Okay, we'll talk or hear on something about that too,
because I've got a story, but I don't want to
I don't want to put that on air, but we
will over a cup of tea sometime. There's been a
few people Select Committee to look into pay equity changes.
What's going on here.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
It's it's an interesting one. We got the word of
it yesterday that Marilyn Waring, who is of course the
young and or she was at the time the youngest
ever MP and she was this young female MP Muldoon.
She has started this People's Select Committee which is basically
taking ten MP's former MPs from across the political divide,
(08:38):
and Jackie Blue from the Nats, Nanaiamahuta from Labor, and
Sue Bradford as well from from the Greens. A lot
of really sort of these these Wahini with a lot
of mana within the public sector from years of their
service within politics and beyond are going to be sitting
down and essentially doing the Select committee that they said
(08:59):
that the government never did when it came to pay equity,
and it's not binding, like whatever they come up with,
it's not actually going to mean anything in terms of
the function of Parliament. And I'm not expecting Brook van
Velden to reverse everything based on the findings of this.
But Marilyn Wearing this morning, she was doing a stand up,
was talking about how the problem is the process and
there was no Select Committee inquiry here so people could
(09:21):
have their say or really investigate some of the things
that the government had been doing because the government did
put this through under urgency and there had been a
lot of feedback about this one as well. So if anything,
what this is going to do is it's going to
keep the conversation going for the critics of the pay
equity revamp in terms of you know, the Flirfit Simmons
of the unions and the CTU and the others. So
(09:44):
expect to be hearing more about this, but don't expect
it to do anything in terms of changing the government's mind.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I've got a Marilyn Wearing story and to tell you too,
But I don't know whether I can tell it. Can
I tell it on radio? No time.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I'm not going to tell you not to do it
no time.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well, but there used to be a thing when she
was in politics, when I was young, when I was
your agent, that used to say the softest part of
Maryland wearing was her teeth. There you go. I'll leave
it at that. Think about it. It'll come to you.
Thanks very much. Always a pleasure. Jason Wall's news talk
set Be's political editor.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks he'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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