September 1, 2024 • 32 mins
Business confidence has hit a ten-year high according to ANZ's latest survey - but are businesses in Wellington feeling as confident as those in other parts of the country?
And what impact are electricity prices having on businesses, and is the market working?
Those were some of the questions for the Wellington Mornings Business Panel this week, with Kaffee Eis owner Karl Tiefenbacher and Mills Albert founding director Dave Mills.
Also on the agenda was Sir Peter Jackson's $100m buy-up of land in the city for a rumoured movie museum, and the state of New Zealand's banking sector.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said b.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Your inside word on all things business in the capital
with Quinovac, better systems, better reporting, better call, quinnobeck, oh
eight hundred, quinovec.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's get down, Let's get downs.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
You join us for our business panel this week is
Dave Mills, founding director of Mills Albert.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Good morning, mister.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Mills, Good morning Nick. How you sir?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I'm really good.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Now We've got to clear the air because I know
that you cop it a bit when people walk on
the streets and when I cop it a lot when
I walk the streets. Say what relation are you to Millsy?
And I say, actually, no relation at all. He just
took he pinched my name. He said, it was quite
a good day until he pinched my name. But we
have no relation apart from having and we will say
that me and our family are tied up with the Saints,
(01:03):
and you are very kindly as your family are tied
up with fun in the same So we'll get that
out in the air. It's not the reason you're here,
but we'll just let people name case the text machine
goes crazy and people say the only reason is here
is because he's a Saint sponsor. Very successful capity business.
Tell us tell our listeners a little bit about your business.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, we're a civil contracting business for first and Foremost,
but we also have a logging business that sort of
we do both forestry extraction and roading. We have a
rock farm that does we bring rocks down from Openuche
for use in coastal and river protection. And we've been
operating in the Company region for about twenty years. Formed
(01:42):
in twenty twenty but trading from twenty twenty two. I've
got a staff of about one hundred and ten full
time people and predominantly we work through the wire rapper
Wellington Company hider for Noua Womanui into Taranakie regions. So yeah,
that's about us, all right.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
So that people can understand you don't actually build buildings,
you build the infrastructure that the buildings go on.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Is that correct? Does that be a way of describing it?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
That is one way vertical vertical vertical construction is for
buildings and we're into horizontal so we do pipe infrastructure.
That's one of our major pillars, I suppose, so pulling
into stormwater services sewer water, we do subdivisions, we do
all sorts of roading. Walk is one of our clients.
(02:27):
But yeah, generally we work a lot for the local councils.
Willing to water at one of your clients not we've
done a little bit for Wellington Water. Actually we've locked
to do a little bit more. So hopefully that it's
on the cards coming up.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Hopefully they listening to the show and Carl Teffan Barker
who is Cafe Ice owner, But you'd be probably better
off known as a political I don't want to use
the word agitator because I would say that wouldn't describe
you well.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
But you're a political voice. Is that the right way
to describe it?
Speaker 5 (02:54):
I think maybe at the moment, Nick, but I'd still
rather just be known as Cafe Ice really. I mean
the political stuff is just based around the fact that
you know, I'm just wanting Wetington to be a bit
better than what on the path that's on at the moment.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
To be fair, are you prepared to speak up?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Which a lot of us as business people sit there
and moan and groan around our mates, but we don't
actually put our head up and say, hey, this needs
to be done.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah, I think that's exactly the point. I think someone's
got a stand up. And while i'd rather it wasn't me,
willing to have it been me, because as I said,
you know, I think there's some things that need to
be brought to people's attension. And I think, you know,
I've got a great city. We just got to make
sure we're still on the right path.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Is it a great city? Would you call it a
great city now? If someone came in and I'm actually
going to ring Carry Widham that did the show for
us last week after the show today, because all weeks
she was saying she was coming to Wellington for the
weekend and I'd be really interested to see what, as
an ex Wellingtonian, what she thought of the city when
she came in.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
I think that's tough on in it because I mean,
it is a great city, but is it a great
city right now? It's certainly not the same city it
was maybe ten fifteen years ago. I think ten fifteen
years ago, you'd be really proud to call yourself WELLINGTONI
and everyone will go, oh, I love that city. I
think now that has probably diminished, and I think that's
why I'm standing for counsel and doing these sort of things.
Is how simply because the path we're on has put
(04:14):
us in a place where we're not as good as
what we were ten fifteen years ago, and unfortunately, if
we don't change that will be even worse than ten
fifteen years from now as well.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Dave, do you think that we are a great city?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I mean, I know you live in the capital, you
live out that way, but you spend a lot of time,
especially during the rugby season and the basketball season, being
in we Wastington.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
So do you think we're still a great city.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I think we are a great city. There's some great
people here. It's got good bones, that's got a fantastic
the outlook when you're walking around the waterfront and what
have you. There's some beautiful places to see. But there
are some fundamental issues, I suppose, around the vibrancy and
the viability to be in business in Wellington. So there
(04:55):
are some work ons there. Are you hearing that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Are you hearing from your clients that it's getting tough
to do business in Wellington?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I believe the cost of everything's getting tough to operate everywhere. Actually,
to be fair, at the moment. But Wellington is a
tough place to operate.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Yes, what about capitdi?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I mean our listenership is obviously Capiti. I mean how's Capiti?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I mean Company is a it's another great place to live.
To be there and to operate we find there is
actually there's actually a lot of people moving from the
Wellington the area to Company and the access through turns
Fision Gully is actually providing that pathway which is probably
affecting Wellington a little bit as well. For Company, we've
become a lot more it's a lot more busy and vibrant.
(05:36):
But to operate there we find it really it's actually
a good place to operate. There's good access to both
the Wellington and obviously North and so, and there's a
lot of perspective work planned for company, which is a
good thing for an infrastructure installation company.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So yeah, I haven't been invited up yet. Everyone else
seems to be invited up there, Piety and coop, so
everyone around the place has been invited up, but no
one remembers to invite me up. So I have to
come up and see you guys. Right, let's talk about
business confidence. Let's let's kick this take it off for
something rare, some really good news. The latest a n
Z Business confidence survey had a shocking result. Business confidence
(06:14):
has jumped to its almost most confident in a decade,
which surprised a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Carl, why such a.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Jump and what do we make of it? And what's
it got to do with the ocr Really Well, I
think for.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
The last couple of years, you know, businesses have been
under a lot of pressure and there hasn't been a
lot of positivity that you could see in the in
the short term. I guess with the movement of the
ocr it's an indication that we've got a path that's
you know, obviously going to continue on down and it's
going to give people more money in their.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Bad How do you know that it's going to carry
on going down?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I mean, you come from a finance background, so you
know this is your this is your baby.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
How how do we have the confidence that is going
to keep going down?
Speaker 5 (06:50):
Unfortunately? I think it's a catch twenty two. I think
the reason it's got to keep on coming down is
because their economy is still very sluggish. You know there,
you know, there's still you know, people don't have a
lot of money in the back pocket to basically keep
the money stimulator. I mean, obviously both of us come
from a HOSPO background, and we've known since COVID rarely
everything's been a bit tough, and we haven't yet seen
(07:11):
that turn around massively. So I think the reality is
that the reserve banks now starting to appreciate the fact
that inflation is slowed enough to be able to start
that down with spiral on the insta rates. I think
realistically to get the stimulation we need to have a
really really positive look forward. That's going to have to
carry on down quite markedly, and that's I mean, that's
what all the banks are predicting as well. So I
think it will be fair to say there's no doubt
(07:33):
the insterstrates are going to come down. They're going to
have to, and I think that will undoubtedly give us
a bit more positive to going forward.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
David, Now I know you a little bit, and I
know that you're one of the most positive people that
I've ever met, so this would not come as a
surprise to you that the A and Z'd think we're
going to get better.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That's for sure. The indications are that the interest rates
are going to continue to go down. Albeit what sort
of rate, I'm not too sure, but the indicators are
there for that. What we've got to do. Unfortunately, a
part of it with the sluggishness of the economy. Of
part of it's about the the rise of an unemployment
because that's one of the drivers that brought the interest
(08:10):
rates down to the whole, the whole slowing of the economy.
And so by the same token, we've will to actually
looked to see if we can actually start relocating those
people into other employment and stop them in the this
migration either out of the region or ound of the country,
which is even worse. But in the in the sense
of a business and it's confidence, lower rates is always
(08:33):
going to provide that sort of that sort of stability.
But we've all sort of we've got some tough times
ahead of us.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yet you still think we've got I think we're bottomed
out potentially.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yes, but this was still a club. We've still going
to actually generate the revenue to keep climbing out. And
that's the thing. So if you have a look at
the amount of properties, the advertising that's going on for
properties and builds, it's probably at a real high at
the moment, because this building isn't happening just yet. It's
still not really happening. So it's it's starting to starting
to build. But as soon as there's a bit of
(09:08):
a confidence that the interest rates are going to stay
down there and the residential building gets going, I think
then we're really looking on to start of that growth again.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
That's the most positive guy in the world talking like,
we've still got some more hard types to go, Carl.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I don't need this. I was expecting that to be Oh, no,
we're done, now we're away.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
I think Dave's exactly right. I mean, the reality is
I was up in Auckland just last week and one
of my good friends up there as an architect, and
at the moment they have no work. So I mean,
you've a look at that pipeline. It takes a while
for things to rebuild once that positive he starts coming in.
So we've had all the negativity of their rising interest rates,
people under pressure. So as we as we get to
a point where by in straits are looking to come down,
(09:48):
it takes a while for that stimulation to flow through
to the construction center and all the people that benefit
from the construction center, because if first of all they
have to get your plans done, you have to getting
through counsel and all these sort of things. So I
think there's always going to be a lag on that.
So we've got, you know, things, another six to nine
months of hardship for many people.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Dave, can I ask you it's confidentially, you don't have
to tell me if you if you don't want to,
And just quickly, I mean, how's your forward book looking.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Pretty good at the moment, thank you. There's lots of
opportunity out there. Essentially just making sure you get everything
actually started. That's the hard part at the moment. There's
a lot of interest, there's a heck of a lot
of interest actually to be fair, but everyone's lining up
their projects and I've actually been waiting for a release
of the of this this construction onslaught that's going to
(10:33):
be out there, and I believe there will be.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
You think it's going to come back as a boom?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I do. I definitely do. And where we're going to
need it. We're going to need people because we are
losing a lot and you'll find a lot of these
people that have unfortunately lost their jobs I'll be I
think you'll find some repurposing on their career directions and
that's going to be one thing that's actually going to help.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Can you teach me how to drive a bulldope?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
We can teach anyone. In fact, what do you look
at me like that?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
For you teach anyone? Seventeen minutes past, we're talking to
business panel. I've just been it wasn't quite off at
a job, but I was offered training Dave Mills, founder
director of Mills Albert and Carl Tiefer bark to join
us for the business hour and Dave just fell off
the two chair when I said, I've suggested I'd be
a job that was too much for Wellington Mornings. That's
(11:16):
our business panel with Dave Mills. He still we still
kept them in here, other than the fact that he
knocked over a glass of water all over everything and
fell on the floor. What I suggested that who maybe
give me a job as a bulldozer driver?
Speaker 4 (11:28):
That was a little bit too much for him?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
And Carl Tiffan Barker, owner of Cafe Ice, and I've
organized how to get fruit of the forest and a
bigger container so I don't run out every time. If
you are, I'll give this a little ad. If you
are in Cafe Ice, only one to go for is
Fruit of the Forest. I mean, you know it's the best.
It's the best one. Dave's already looking forward to one
this afternoon, aren't you do. Let's talk Wellington business. There's
(11:51):
an interesting story in the paper over the weekend. More
and more people are leaving Wellington.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
We know that.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
We feel that, especially young people who can't get on
the properly ladder, have lost their jobs or aren't finding
opportunities to grow their career. Most of them more off
to Ozzie. But I'm actually hearing a lot more are
going to Asia. They're traveling. They're saying traveling is cheaper
than paying and renting and living in Wellington. Dave, I
mean you just talked about it before. I mean, you're
going to got all these jobs to do and you
(12:16):
need people to work. How worrying is this? Young people
are a big part of the soul in Wellington.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Why are they leaving him? Are you worried?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I am worried. I mean it's not just Wellington, it's
the actual regions as well. Where you find is actually
a migration out of the great city centers. Some of
that's driven by real estate and what have you, and
some of it's driven by opportunity. But if we lose
all of our youth, of sure, we're going to actually
(12:48):
we're going to come to some serious problems in ten
twenty years on. We're actually going to miss that benchmark
of people that are actually going to have provide the
experience and the excellence to be able to to in
a layman's sense of construction. We're going to miss those people.
They are actually going to be the grunt and have
(13:09):
that experience to do so. It is a worry.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Have you found that people are coming?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I mean, you're based in Caperity, You've got you know,
satellites elsewhere, but you're based in Kapadi. Are you finding
people ringing up and saying can I get a job
out there? Can I move out to Kapiti from Wellington
and work out there and live out there?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
We get a range of people from across the board.
To be honest with you, there's people coming from outside
the region to Capity because Wellington's got this little perception
that the actual the construction sensor is a little bit
more vibrant than some other areas, So there is actually
people coming into the area from outside coming into the
(13:49):
Wellington into the area as well. Yes, so, but the
trade offs of the people leaving, there's a lot more
trying to leave the area. So you're finding there's other
contractors coming into the area. So I'd say it's probably
a little bit more in that sense because they're trying
to get.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
The trying to get the market, trying to get into
your market. Yeah, Karl, I mean your business is run
with young people. I mean, are you having difficulty finding staff?
I must admit that your staff have always been very,
very good. Do you have trouble fighting them, to be honest,
for the last three years? Probably, yes, maybe up to
about six months ago. But over recent times it's been
(14:26):
a lot more people looking for work, So I think
you would have found that in your businesses. We're still
doing it tough. We're still having a real struggle. I
mean we're looking for many, many positions and really doing
it tough. Especially high end high end Cocktai Albama and
high end chefs are.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Very difficult to find.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
Yeah, we're more hiring the university students that maybe have
a year off. We're basically looking for some part time work.
So we find a lot of cvs coming in along
those lines. So people are starting to think back along
the lines of getting jobs and hospitals. So we're not
seeing that really at the moment. I think, you know,
I guess if you look at the city and you
look at that exodus, I guess part of the issue
was creating an environment where people want to come to Wasington.
(15:02):
Why do you want to come from Wasnington? Where's the buzz?
You know, where's that vibrance? See that?
Speaker 4 (15:05):
We what's changed?
Speaker 5 (15:08):
I think it's I think it's all an ongoing effective COVID.
I think the cost of living is becoming a real
massive issue within Wellington. I was up in Auckland, as
I said, and we're speaking to a guy who said, oh,
you know, I've just paid my rate sport it's a
thousand bucks. Said, well, how much do you pay four
thousand dollars a year? I go, well, what's your house
worth one point six mill? Oh that's interesting because my mum,
(15:29):
whose house is just about the same price as paying
nine two hundred dollars a year in my factory out
in Grenada North, which is worth the same amount of money.
Basically I paid twenty one thousand dollars a year, so
you know, I think, you know, we have some really
big costs going on here which makes the cost of
living a little bit more expensive, So it takes money
out of your pocket. That flows through the fact that
people have less money to go to hospo and in
(15:50):
support the hospow businesses, And we're seeing a lot of
that over recent times where hospow businesses, you know, the
nightlife and Courtney you know as well as I do that.
You know they're struggling down that end, and that's that's
just losing a bit of virberency. And what do young
people want? Young people want a vibrant place where you
can go out and have a really good part. I
want to safe and happy and fun place very much
say yeah, I think that's all part of it. So
you know, that's the sort of things we need to
get to get back and focused on. Is basically, what
(16:12):
are people How are we drawing people into the inner city?
What are we what are we creating for them to
come in and enjoy? And I think maybe we've just
lost focused on.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
That, Dave quickly, I've got to go to an air break.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Do you think that we can do more to make
it a better place and more vibrant place to live
and work.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
The Wellington Central. I do notice there's there's distinctive signs
of the struggle that's out there, So you see that
when you're walking on the street, and unfortunately those people
there and they do actually sort of make it a
little bit of an uncomfortable enviral.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Talk about the people living on the street.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, it's it's it's not they're
doing but it's yeah, I get you. It does. It
does have an impact. I'm not too certain how else
Wellington can Actually, it's not just it's not just the city,
it's everything. It's we're getting people out and about now.
We're a lot more isolated than what we do and
we tend to together a lot in the street and
(17:08):
enjoy the vibrancy at sports games whatever. We're not really
sort of bonding together as a community like that, and
it'll be something that'll be really good to see happening again.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
The Commerce Commission report into New Zealand banking sector has
this come back and found the big Aussie banks are
highly profitable, lack innovation, and don't compete for customers. Finance
Minister Nicholas Willis has come down hard on them, saying
the government will step in to create more competition. Carl,
do you think we actually are being raughted by our
big banks?
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Yeah, it's tricky one, anak. I think we always complain about,
you know, big businesses doing pretty well. I mean, there's
some arguments that the banks have to make money to
be sustainable and to be protected in case of downturns.
I personally bank with Keywi Bank because I like the
idea of banking with a new.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Business banking as well business banking with them as well.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
Some of there they don't have quite the technical ability
to do all the business banking maybe efficiently at the moment,
and that's probably a bit of downfall. But what I'd
say is when I look at the interest rates they charge,
they are pretty much to the big banks. So if
we were getting ripped off as public as much as
what people would like to think, then Key Bank should
be able to better that quite markedly in putting some
(18:16):
true competitions.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
So I just I just won't don't think that they
are that much more competitive.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
I think I think, you know, the intrate's pretty much same,
you know, whether you go to Keybank or west Bank,
and most of us Key most about the interest rate
they're charging us or not giving us some deposit money.
So if those are the two most driving factors for
us KEYI bank either should be able to better them
or it says something that maybe we're not getting wrought
as much as possible because a lot of them, but
it's made in the background, through the through the financial
market services that they do added value on, or would
(18:42):
argue they do added value on.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
How do you get on with Kiwi Bank with the
fact that you're a cash flow business so you would
have to do a little bit of cash banking and
stuff like that. I know it's dropped the hell out
of in some you do no banking at all, but
kiwibanks sort of don't have that facility do.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
They what they do, but they're limited.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
So I mean, if you're in Wantington, you know we
Manas Street or Lampty Key is basically where we can go.
There's not much parking around them, so it gets a
little bit awkward. But as you say, there's not that
much cash goes through the tools day, so it's a
it's a less of a issue. I mean, I found
I found them to be really good, to be honest,
I've enjoyed moving with keep Bank and I found quite
supportive as well.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Right, I'll look into it does banking It does our
banking system work for New Zealand consumers and businesses? Dave,
do you reckon that we've got a good enough system
in place or are we being let down?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Well as far as competitiveness goes, we'd like to think
they're always getting the best deal. Okay, Since we went
through a stimulated economy more or less through COVID and
everything amped up in its price increase, and it was
it was a stimulated economy. Since then, what's happening in
the construction phase that we've seen as prices are coming
(19:50):
down to probably probably realistic levels to be fair, we're
actually becoming a lot more hungrier and we'd like to
expect that the bank.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
So your price is basically you're saying, if you have
if I asked you to put a new road in
down the road here, your price is better now than
it was.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Two years ago.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
We're a lot more competit you have to.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Be prices covered down. You're telling you competitive with your quotes,
but you carry up.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Sorry, and so we didn't like to think that the
banks and other major institutions are going to start following
that trend supplies as well. I mean, we all have
to make money, but you've just got to be a
lot more smarter about how you go about your business,
otherwise you're going to miss out.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Do you have a relationship with your bank?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Do you ever like magnificent relationship with the who the
ben Zen? Sorry, I know we're in the aliens here,
but we have a fantastic We've been with them since
day one and whatever, and that's one of the key
things we have done. Will stay pretty close to our
bank and they with us, so we don't have any
issues whatsoever. As long as we stay on in those
lines of communication.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
As long as you don't overdraft, you're okay. Cal Do
you have a good relationship with your bank?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:53):
As I said, I think we get on really well
with the guys from Kiwi Bank. Yeah, I'm pretty happy
with it.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I guess.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
I guess the Kiwi Bank do things better. Could they
be compete with the big boys? Would you?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I mean, Dave, why are you not with Kiwi Bank?
You're a Kiwi lawyer, key we bloke.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
That's a good question. Actually, so we've we've not really
looked at changing. We just said you've been looked after,
you if we've been looked after. So and it's interesting
hearing from Carl that there's not two dissimilar interest rates
and what have you, and the levels of service we
have are fantastic. I just can't I can't really speak
highly enough of what we are getting from our bank
as far as feedback, advice and actually support. Really can't
(21:32):
ask for any more than that.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
I think that's key, really is if you've been looked after,
then you're happy. If you're not been looked after, change
because the reality is there's not a lot of loyalty
from the banks to the customers these days. It's not
like twenty years ago, thirty years ago we had long
term relationships good to here Dave does have them. But
my experience has always been that I deal with a
manager and we get on really well and it's really good.
Then he gets promoted and then get someone else and
then it may or may not work from that point on.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
But you know, I'm.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Always intrigued by the big, big businesses like Spark and
those places who work really really hard to get new
customers but do very little to retain current customers.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Have you as a hospitality operator? I have, so I'm
quite a put in my hand up is as it changed.
I mean, I rang a guy I'm looking to buy
a piece of equipment, quite an expensive piece of equipment,
and I rang a guy that finances me over the
phone said I'll send you an application that was twelve
pages long. And I said, what the hell's changed? And
he said, oh, your hospital. None of the no one
(22:25):
wants to touch hospital at the moment.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
I think, as we know, I mean, hospital is suffering
at the moment, probably more than most areas. And I
think if you're in hospital and you're trying to raise
funds from the banks, they're not going to be that
interested in hearing from you. I think that's the reality
of it. And I think we have to expect that
to carry on for another six to nine months.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I think I need to get into roading with Dave,
and I need to find that job and get out
the roading.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
All those a job still going over well.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I don't want to bitch that a year because last
time I mentioned he dropped his water and fell off
the sea. So he said he would give me a job.
But then you know, you could hear his partners Regorg
give up, say him give him that old father a job.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
No way.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Power prices are at record high in New Zealand, our
biggest electricity gent tailors, and now it's profits up hundreds
of millions of dollars. All amidst our call that we're
in a crisis. The government is now moving to boost
electricity supply. Carl, how's that changed for you? I mean,
electricity prices used to be about three percent or two
and a half to three percent for me. Now they're
(23:22):
about six which is almost the same as rent should be.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
I think I had a little look before I came
on the show actually to see how we're going, and
I think maybe we're about thirty percent higher than we
were a year and a half ago on electricity.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
I mean it's massive, It is quite big.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
I mean, to be fair, when I look at all
the other bills that have gone up, I don't necessarily
think it's any bigger than what the other precures we've had.
I mean, i'd say that you know, just about everything
has gone up so substantially for us.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Yeah, it's all right for our rates to go up.
So it's all right for our rates to go up
by thirty percent. And if you're saying it's okay for
electricity prices to.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Go oh no, the rate's gone up by more than
the electricity. That's my whole point, you know. I mean
it's all relative. I mean, obviously we have an issue
if we can't keep up with supply going forward, and
we need to be having them reinvest in that. So
if the one hundreds of million dollars a product profit
of being reinvested, then that's probably what we need to
be having happened. But if it's not happening, then we're
probably a little bit of trouble.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Right, Dave, how does the supply crisis concern you? I mean,
are you big at electricity users your organization?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
No, But we've gone solace to be honest, with the
installed solar at work, and that provides most of our
power use. But I'll tell you where it does have
an impact. Recently, You'll see you may have seen a
closure of the Crool International pop mall and the Tongue
Wai saw Mill two hundred and thirty people employed in
those mills, and their power went up from one hundred
(24:45):
dollars per mega what hour to five hundred dollars per
mega what hour over a three year period, which is
an effect actually made that business unattendable. That has a
downstream effect obviously on the Ruapehu region and also probably
far reaching into the lights of the port of Napier
where a lot of that export material went out of
So how the exorbitant costs And that's one of those
(25:10):
supplies that maybe need to have a look at what
they're doing. We were all sort of trying to clean
things back a bit and bring inflation back. We need
to actually manage their supplies in that sense, I believe, Well.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That's great stuff. That's sad, but great information to have.
I've always wondered why the government don't do and now
I realized, because they own all these detailers anyway, or
a large percentage, why they don't just give you free
solar on every house and you pay it off over
a period of time, or if you sell the house
you pay it back. I mean, if either of you
thought that that would be a good idea, that would
(25:41):
take a hell of a lot of out of the grid,
wouldn't it or would it?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I definitely think sol is the idea, especially for residential.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Do you have it residentially as well?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
No, not yet, but we will be look at the
pool wall.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Oh that didn't work out? So have you got a call?
Speaker 5 (26:01):
Unfortunately not We were thinking about it. But I mean again,
it's a big investment, cash up frontage safe. The government
would lend you the money, but the reality is, at
some point everyone pays, you know, everything that we do,
everything that happens, at some point there is a cost
and someone has to bear it. And you know, the
government unfortunately doesn't actually have an endless pile of cash
that's sitting around that they can addition to stuff either.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Dave, what how much is that? How long is the
payback on your solar at work? Because I've got a
cafe that I think would benefit greatly out of solar
solar panels? But how how long do you work the
investment out?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Over? As this good question? Because over and that she
had too much to do with that side. I'm so sorry.
I don't can't tell you, but it's we're providing about
eighty percent of our power out of it until you
do that. Wow. So and it's amazing how how it
works on a day that's not what you'd consider sunny,
so it still picks up, still picks up. So it's
actually have you got.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
A what do you call it?
Speaker 3 (26:57):
A battery pack there as well, so you can keep
it in yourself and go back into the grid.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
So we don't use the battery pair, there is that
option to do so. Yeah, to be quite, it'll be
five years.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I would think that pays a battery.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, i'd say something like that. Wow, it wasn't that.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Me and Carl are just looking at it with bit
of breath. Figure, hell, hell that would work.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
It must be the Capitany's son. I thought it was
about a fifteen twenty year paid bad for most people.
But if you're using a lot and a lot of panels,
and I guess you're getting a bigger benefit.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Right, Trades and Construction, Dave, hopefully you know a little
bit about this. I keep hearing from property developers aren't
doing many or if any deals at the moment with
a drop of interest rates, Well we see more deals
on the horizon. What are you hearing? Are you feeling it?
Are you getting the big developers ringing you again?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
There is a there's a start of something building, there's
a developer with and he was acually thinking about not continuing,
and now he's making indications that he's going to do that.
The actual builds are starting to happen, just slowly, but
like I said earlier, there's a lot more advertising going
on at the moment, more than it's been for several years.
(28:04):
We're there, the A ones and the Platinum homes are
really trying to make it effort to get things going
because now with these interesting interest rates coming down, is
what's going to probably kickstart that that hopefully the escalation
and work through construction, vertical construction, through residential.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
So Carl, what are you hearing?
Speaker 5 (28:26):
I think you know that lag effect is still going
to take place. I think you know people will start
warming up again. I know a lot of people were
walking away from deals not that long ago. So now
with this more positive interest rate scenario, in this thought
that maybe we're heading in the right direction now, I
think maybe we start seeing that build, but I think,
you know, again, six to nine months for it to
start to build into something that's really substantial, I'd imagine biggest.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Rumor that's been floating around town for a while.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Is.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Companies associated with Peter Jackson and fran Walsh have purchased
more than one hundred million dollars worth of property in
Larle Bay on the waterfront, which suggests that could be
a long rumored movie museum. I've also heard there might
be some sort of film training school out there really quickly,
because I've got to go to an ad break for
you both, David, how big would this be for Wetington?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Massive? I just think the hefty of the roading infrastructure
bell to handle the traffic, that's the number one thing.
It's bad enough now to get back and forward. So no,
I'm serious to up with that.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Yeah no, but you're right.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
But the whole thing for the Worlington area will be fantastic,
especially with the training institute attached to it.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Okay, that massive, I mean we can't be we can't
actually say how grateful we should be for Peter Jackson
Van Walsh's investment in Wetnington and continued investment in Wantington.
I would have rather seen it as Keena obviously, where
he wanted it in the first place, but I think
anywhere in Wannington it's got to be a positive, very city.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Right, Oh guys, someone really really special comes into town, right,
someone that's never been to Wellington before. You're picking them
up at eleven am at Wellington Airport. It's been a
bit windy. Hopefully the plane didn't catch fire, landed, are
okay and they're feeling like they're all right? You picked
them up at Wellington More Wellington the airport, Dave Mills.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
I know you're going to get out to Capity as
quickly as you can. But what do you do?
Speaker 3 (30:04):
And you can take them straight to Capit if you
can bypass Wellington, what would you do with that very
special person when they flew into Wellington Airport?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I'm surprised you're asking me that. You know, I'll take
them to a Saints game, but seriously, well also the
tour lines or a Pride game. We've got to get
our community going. But now I'd probably just take them
for a walk down down the waterfront. To be honest
with you, everything's down there. Call them to a couple
of bars, maybe have a latte or something like that,
but just down the waterfront, just soaking some of their
(30:33):
ambiance that's down there.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Yeah, Carl, what would you do a part? Give him?
Speaker 5 (30:38):
A free ice cream. I do exactly the same. I
think the waterfront is out as really the heart and
soul of Wontington and what's special about it? To paper,
I think is probably worth a visit just for the
Gallipoli display if nothing else, So that and then a
meal it shed five would probably be my preference. But otherwise,
you know, if I was a bit younger and a
bit more vibe we wanted, then it would probably be
Monsoon Poon or Napoli and then probably drink it. Maybe
(31:01):
Hawthorne Lounge or maybe somewhere like Library would probably be
my cup.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Okay, what's this fly? You've just given me?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Just a fly that the unions wouldn't have let the
posties deliver. Yeah, I was so lucky I wasn't on
there that week, weren't they? Yeah, just riding my mailbox
before I came down here. It just was from better
Wellington and I thought you might like a copy. Your
future reach bill will be twenty and twenty six. Of
it was nine than five hundred, now twenty twenty six,
it's going to be fourteen thousand, and twenty and twenty nine.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
It's going to be twenty four thousand. They're out. I'll
put that.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
I'll put that up on our Facebook page for you
to have a look at. Thank you both very much
for coming. And we didn't even get to talk about
Golden Mile. That's probably a good thing. We would and
didn't have long enough, did we with Carl. Thank you
both very much for what you do for Wellington. Appreciate
and appreciate you coming in and have a great afternoon.
And let's be positive about Wellington. It feels like to
(31:58):
me and I might be too positive. It feels like
we've bottomed out. I can feel it, feel it going,
and you're both nodding, so you both agree, let's hope.
So you think it's going to be a little bit
Karl does think it's going to be a little bit longer,
and I'll take his advice. But Milsey and I are,
we're pretty optimistic.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
We're going to go for it.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
You reckon the Saints might make the finals next year.
Of course, that's real optimism.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said b.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Your inside word on all things business in the capital
with Quinovac, better systems, better reporting, better call, quinnobeck, oh
eight hundred, quinovec.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's get down, Let's get downs.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
You join us for our business panel this week is
Dave Mills, founding director of Mills Albert.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Good morning, mister.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Mills, Good morning Nick. How you sir?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I'm really good.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Now We've got to clear the air because I know
that you cop it a bit when people walk on
the streets and when I cop it a lot when
I walk the streets. Say what relation are you to Millsy?
And I say, actually, no relation at all. He just
took he pinched my name. He said, it was quite
a good day until he pinched my name. But we
have no relation apart from having and we will say
that me and our family are tied up with the Saints,
(01:03):
and you are very kindly as your family are tied
up with fun in the same So we'll get that
out in the air. It's not the reason you're here,
but we'll just let people name case the text machine
goes crazy and people say the only reason is here
is because he's a Saint sponsor. Very successful capity business.
Tell us tell our listeners a little bit about your business.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, we're a civil contracting business for first and Foremost,
but we also have a logging business that sort of
we do both forestry extraction and roading. We have a
rock farm that does we bring rocks down from Openuche
for use in coastal and river protection. And we've been
operating in the Company region for about twenty years. Formed
(01:42):
in twenty twenty but trading from twenty twenty two. I've
got a staff of about one hundred and ten full
time people and predominantly we work through the wire rapper
Wellington Company hider for Noua Womanui into Taranakie regions. So yeah,
that's about us, all right.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
So that people can understand you don't actually build buildings,
you build the infrastructure that the buildings go on.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Is that correct? Does that be a way of describing it?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
That is one way vertical vertical vertical construction is for
buildings and we're into horizontal so we do pipe infrastructure.
That's one of our major pillars, I suppose, so pulling
into stormwater services sewer water, we do subdivisions, we do
all sorts of roading. Walk is one of our clients.
(02:27):
But yeah, generally we work a lot for the local councils.
Willing to water at one of your clients not we've
done a little bit for Wellington Water. Actually we've locked
to do a little bit more. So hopefully that it's
on the cards coming up.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Hopefully they listening to the show and Carl Teffan Barker
who is Cafe Ice owner, But you'd be probably better
off known as a political I don't want to use
the word agitator because I would say that wouldn't describe
you well.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
But you're a political voice. Is that the right way
to describe it?
Speaker 5 (02:54):
I think maybe at the moment, Nick, but I'd still
rather just be known as Cafe Ice really. I mean
the political stuff is just based around the fact that
you know, I'm just wanting Wetington to be a bit
better than what on the path that's on at the moment.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
To be fair, are you prepared to speak up?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Which a lot of us as business people sit there
and moan and groan around our mates, but we don't
actually put our head up and say, hey, this needs
to be done.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah, I think that's exactly the point. I think someone's
got a stand up. And while i'd rather it wasn't me,
willing to have it been me, because as I said,
you know, I think there's some things that need to
be brought to people's attension. And I think, you know,
I've got a great city. We just got to make
sure we're still on the right path.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Is it a great city? Would you call it a
great city now? If someone came in and I'm actually
going to ring Carry Widham that did the show for
us last week after the show today, because all weeks
she was saying she was coming to Wellington for the
weekend and I'd be really interested to see what, as
an ex Wellingtonian, what she thought of the city when
she came in.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
I think that's tough on in it because I mean,
it is a great city, but is it a great
city right now? It's certainly not the same city it
was maybe ten fifteen years ago. I think ten fifteen
years ago, you'd be really proud to call yourself WELLINGTONI
and everyone will go, oh, I love that city. I
think now that has probably diminished, and I think that's
why I'm standing for counsel and doing these sort of things.
Is how simply because the path we're on has put
(04:14):
us in a place where we're not as good as
what we were ten fifteen years ago, and unfortunately, if
we don't change that will be even worse than ten
fifteen years from now as well.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Dave, do you think that we are a great city?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I mean, I know you live in the capital, you
live out that way, but you spend a lot of time,
especially during the rugby season and the basketball season, being
in we Wastington.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
So do you think we're still a great city.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I think we are a great city. There's some great
people here. It's got good bones, that's got a fantastic
the outlook when you're walking around the waterfront and what
have you. There's some beautiful places to see. But there
are some fundamental issues, I suppose, around the vibrancy and
the viability to be in business in Wellington. So there
(04:55):
are some work ons there. Are you hearing that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Are you hearing from your clients that it's getting tough
to do business in Wellington?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I believe the cost of everything's getting tough to operate everywhere. Actually,
to be fair, at the moment. But Wellington is a
tough place to operate.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Yes, what about capitdi?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I mean our listenership is obviously Capiti. I mean how's Capiti?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I mean Company is a it's another great place to live.
To be there and to operate we find there is
actually there's actually a lot of people moving from the
Wellington the area to Company and the access through turns
Fision Gully is actually providing that pathway which is probably
affecting Wellington a little bit as well. For Company, we've
become a lot more it's a lot more busy and vibrant.
(05:36):
But to operate there we find it really it's actually
a good place to operate. There's good access to both
the Wellington and obviously North and so, and there's a
lot of perspective work planned for company, which is a
good thing for an infrastructure installation company.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So yeah, I haven't been invited up yet. Everyone else
seems to be invited up there, Piety and coop, so
everyone around the place has been invited up, but no
one remembers to invite me up. So I have to
come up and see you guys. Right, let's talk about
business confidence. Let's let's kick this take it off for
something rare, some really good news. The latest a n
Z Business confidence survey had a shocking result. Business confidence
(06:14):
has jumped to its almost most confident in a decade,
which surprised a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Carl, why such a.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Jump and what do we make of it? And what's
it got to do with the ocr Really Well, I
think for.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
The last couple of years, you know, businesses have been
under a lot of pressure and there hasn't been a
lot of positivity that you could see in the in
the short term. I guess with the movement of the
ocr it's an indication that we've got a path that's
you know, obviously going to continue on down and it's
going to give people more money in their.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Bad How do you know that it's going to carry
on going down?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I mean, you come from a finance background, so you
know this is your this is your baby.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
How how do we have the confidence that is going
to keep going down?
Speaker 5 (06:50):
Unfortunately? I think it's a catch twenty two. I think
the reason it's got to keep on coming down is
because their economy is still very sluggish. You know there,
you know, there's still you know, people don't have a
lot of money in the back pocket to basically keep
the money stimulator. I mean, obviously both of us come
from a HOSPO background, and we've known since COVID rarely
everything's been a bit tough, and we haven't yet seen
(07:11):
that turn around massively. So I think the reality is
that the reserve banks now starting to appreciate the fact
that inflation is slowed enough to be able to start
that down with spiral on the insta rates. I think
realistically to get the stimulation we need to have a
really really positive look forward. That's going to have to
carry on down quite markedly, and that's I mean, that's
what all the banks are predicting as well. So I
think it will be fair to say there's no doubt
(07:33):
the insterstrates are going to come down. They're going to
have to, and I think that will undoubtedly give us
a bit more positive to going forward.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
David, Now I know you a little bit, and I
know that you're one of the most positive people that
I've ever met, so this would not come as a
surprise to you that the A and Z'd think we're
going to get better.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That's for sure. The indications are that the interest rates
are going to continue to go down. Albeit what sort
of rate, I'm not too sure, but the indicators are
there for that. What we've got to do. Unfortunately, a
part of it with the sluggishness of the economy. Of
part of it's about the the rise of an unemployment
because that's one of the drivers that brought the interest
(08:10):
rates down to the whole, the whole slowing of the economy.
And so by the same token, we've will to actually
looked to see if we can actually start relocating those
people into other employment and stop them in the this
migration either out of the region or ound of the country,
which is even worse. But in the in the sense
of a business and it's confidence, lower rates is always
(08:33):
going to provide that sort of that sort of stability.
But we've all sort of we've got some tough times
ahead of us.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yet you still think we've got I think we're bottomed
out potentially.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yes, but this was still a club. We've still going
to actually generate the revenue to keep climbing out. And
that's the thing. So if you have a look at
the amount of properties, the advertising that's going on for
properties and builds, it's probably at a real high at
the moment, because this building isn't happening just yet. It's
still not really happening. So it's it's starting to starting
to build. But as soon as there's a bit of
(09:08):
a confidence that the interest rates are going to stay
down there and the residential building gets going, I think
then we're really looking on to start of that growth again.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
That's the most positive guy in the world talking like,
we've still got some more hard types to go, Carl.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I don't need this. I was expecting that to be Oh, no,
we're done, now we're away.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
I think Dave's exactly right. I mean, the reality is
I was up in Auckland just last week and one
of my good friends up there as an architect, and
at the moment they have no work. So I mean,
you've a look at that pipeline. It takes a while
for things to rebuild once that positive he starts coming in.
So we've had all the negativity of their rising interest rates,
people under pressure. So as we as we get to
a point where by in straits are looking to come down,
(09:48):
it takes a while for that stimulation to flow through
to the construction center and all the people that benefit
from the construction center, because if first of all they
have to get your plans done, you have to getting
through counsel and all these sort of things. So I
think there's always going to be a lag on that.
So we've got, you know, things, another six to nine
months of hardship for many people.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Dave, can I ask you it's confidentially, you don't have
to tell me if you if you don't want to,
And just quickly, I mean, how's your forward book looking.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Pretty good at the moment, thank you. There's lots of
opportunity out there. Essentially just making sure you get everything
actually started. That's the hard part at the moment. There's
a lot of interest, there's a heck of a lot
of interest actually to be fair, but everyone's lining up
their projects and I've actually been waiting for a release
of the of this this construction onslaught that's going to
(10:33):
be out there, and I believe there will be.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
You think it's going to come back as a boom?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I do. I definitely do. And where we're going to
need it. We're going to need people because we are
losing a lot and you'll find a lot of these
people that have unfortunately lost their jobs I'll be I
think you'll find some repurposing on their career directions and
that's going to be one thing that's actually going to help.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Can you teach me how to drive a bulldope?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
We can teach anyone. In fact, what do you look
at me like that?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
For you teach anyone? Seventeen minutes past, we're talking to
business panel. I've just been it wasn't quite off at
a job, but I was offered training Dave Mills, founder
director of Mills Albert and Carl Tiefer bark to join
us for the business hour and Dave just fell off
the two chair when I said, I've suggested I'd be
a job that was too much for Wellington Mornings. That's
(11:16):
our business panel with Dave Mills. He still we still
kept them in here, other than the fact that he
knocked over a glass of water all over everything and
fell on the floor. What I suggested that who maybe
give me a job as a bulldozer driver?
Speaker 4 (11:28):
That was a little bit too much for him?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
And Carl Tiffan Barker, owner of Cafe Ice, and I've
organized how to get fruit of the forest and a
bigger container so I don't run out every time. If
you are, I'll give this a little ad. If you
are in Cafe Ice, only one to go for is
Fruit of the Forest. I mean, you know it's the best.
It's the best one. Dave's already looking forward to one
this afternoon, aren't you do. Let's talk Wellington business. There's
(11:51):
an interesting story in the paper over the weekend. More
and more people are leaving Wellington.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
We know that.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
We feel that, especially young people who can't get on
the properly ladder, have lost their jobs or aren't finding
opportunities to grow their career. Most of them more off
to Ozzie. But I'm actually hearing a lot more are
going to Asia. They're traveling. They're saying traveling is cheaper
than paying and renting and living in Wellington. Dave, I
mean you just talked about it before. I mean, you're
going to got all these jobs to do and you
(12:16):
need people to work. How worrying is this? Young people
are a big part of the soul in Wellington.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Why are they leaving him? Are you worried?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I am worried. I mean it's not just Wellington, it's
the actual regions as well. Where you find is actually
a migration out of the great city centers. Some of
that's driven by real estate and what have you, and
some of it's driven by opportunity. But if we lose
all of our youth, of sure, we're going to actually
(12:48):
we're going to come to some serious problems in ten
twenty years on. We're actually going to miss that benchmark
of people that are actually going to have provide the
experience and the excellence to be able to to in
a layman's sense of construction. We're going to miss those people.
They are actually going to be the grunt and have
(13:09):
that experience to do so. It is a worry.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Have you found that people are coming?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I mean, you're based in Caperity, You've got you know,
satellites elsewhere, but you're based in Kapadi. Are you finding
people ringing up and saying can I get a job
out there? Can I move out to Kapiti from Wellington
and work out there and live out there?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
We get a range of people from across the board.
To be honest with you, there's people coming from outside
the region to Capity because Wellington's got this little perception
that the actual the construction sensor is a little bit
more vibrant than some other areas, So there is actually
people coming into the area from outside coming into the
(13:49):
Wellington into the area as well. Yes, so, but the
trade offs of the people leaving, there's a lot more
trying to leave the area. So you're finding there's other
contractors coming into the area. So I'd say it's probably
a little bit more in that sense because they're trying
to get.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
The trying to get the market, trying to get into
your market. Yeah, Karl, I mean your business is run
with young people. I mean, are you having difficulty finding staff?
I must admit that your staff have always been very,
very good. Do you have trouble fighting them, to be honest,
for the last three years? Probably, yes, maybe up to
about six months ago. But over recent times it's been
(14:26):
a lot more people looking for work, So I think
you would have found that in your businesses. We're still
doing it tough. We're still having a real struggle. I
mean we're looking for many, many positions and really doing
it tough. Especially high end high end Cocktai Albama and
high end chefs are.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Very difficult to find.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
Yeah, we're more hiring the university students that maybe have
a year off. We're basically looking for some part time work.
So we find a lot of cvs coming in along
those lines. So people are starting to think back along
the lines of getting jobs and hospitals. So we're not
seeing that really at the moment. I think, you know,
I guess if you look at the city and you
look at that exodus, I guess part of the issue
was creating an environment where people want to come to Wasington.
(15:02):
Why do you want to come from Wasnington? Where's the buzz?
You know, where's that vibrance? See that?
Speaker 4 (15:05):
We what's changed?
Speaker 5 (15:08):
I think it's I think it's all an ongoing effective COVID.
I think the cost of living is becoming a real
massive issue within Wellington. I was up in Auckland, as
I said, and we're speaking to a guy who said, oh,
you know, I've just paid my rate sport it's a
thousand bucks. Said, well, how much do you pay four
thousand dollars a year? I go, well, what's your house
worth one point six mill? Oh that's interesting because my mum,
(15:29):
whose house is just about the same price as paying
nine two hundred dollars a year in my factory out
in Grenada North, which is worth the same amount of money.
Basically I paid twenty one thousand dollars a year, so
you know, I think, you know, we have some really
big costs going on here which makes the cost of
living a little bit more expensive, So it takes money
out of your pocket. That flows through the fact that
people have less money to go to hospo and in
(15:50):
support the hospow businesses, And we're seeing a lot of
that over recent times where hospow businesses, you know, the
nightlife and Courtney you know as well as I do that.
You know they're struggling down that end, and that's that's
just losing a bit of virberency. And what do young
people want? Young people want a vibrant place where you
can go out and have a really good part. I
want to safe and happy and fun place very much
say yeah, I think that's all part of it. So
you know, that's the sort of things we need to
get to get back and focused on. Is basically, what
(16:12):
are people How are we drawing people into the inner city?
What are we what are we creating for them to
come in and enjoy? And I think maybe we've just
lost focused on.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
That, Dave quickly, I've got to go to an air break.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Do you think that we can do more to make
it a better place and more vibrant place to live
and work.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
The Wellington Central. I do notice there's there's distinctive signs
of the struggle that's out there, So you see that
when you're walking on the street, and unfortunately those people
there and they do actually sort of make it a
little bit of an uncomfortable enviral.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Talk about the people living on the street.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, it's it's it's not they're
doing but it's yeah, I get you. It does. It
does have an impact. I'm not too certain how else
Wellington can Actually, it's not just it's not just the city,
it's everything. It's we're getting people out and about now.
We're a lot more isolated than what we do and
we tend to together a lot in the street and
(17:08):
enjoy the vibrancy at sports games whatever. We're not really
sort of bonding together as a community like that, and
it'll be something that'll be really good to see happening again.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
The Commerce Commission report into New Zealand banking sector has
this come back and found the big Aussie banks are
highly profitable, lack innovation, and don't compete for customers. Finance
Minister Nicholas Willis has come down hard on them, saying
the government will step in to create more competition. Carl,
do you think we actually are being raughted by our
big banks?
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Yeah, it's tricky one, anak. I think we always complain about,
you know, big businesses doing pretty well. I mean, there's
some arguments that the banks have to make money to
be sustainable and to be protected in case of downturns.
I personally bank with Keywi Bank because I like the
idea of banking with a new.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Business banking as well business banking with them as well.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
Some of there they don't have quite the technical ability
to do all the business banking maybe efficiently at the moment,
and that's probably a bit of downfall. But what I'd
say is when I look at the interest rates they charge,
they are pretty much to the big banks. So if
we were getting ripped off as public as much as
what people would like to think, then Key Bank should
be able to better that quite markedly in putting some
(18:16):
true competitions.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
So I just I just won't don't think that they
are that much more competitive.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
I think I think, you know, the intrate's pretty much same,
you know, whether you go to Keybank or west Bank,
and most of us Key most about the interest rate
they're charging us or not giving us some deposit money.
So if those are the two most driving factors for
us KEYI bank either should be able to better them
or it says something that maybe we're not getting wrought
as much as possible because a lot of them, but
it's made in the background, through the through the financial
market services that they do added value on, or would
(18:42):
argue they do added value on.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
How do you get on with Kiwi Bank with the
fact that you're a cash flow business so you would
have to do a little bit of cash banking and
stuff like that. I know it's dropped the hell out
of in some you do no banking at all, but
kiwibanks sort of don't have that facility do.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
They what they do, but they're limited.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
So I mean, if you're in Wantington, you know we
Manas Street or Lampty Key is basically where we can go.
There's not much parking around them, so it gets a
little bit awkward. But as you say, there's not that
much cash goes through the tools day, so it's a
it's a less of a issue. I mean, I found
I found them to be really good, to be honest,
I've enjoyed moving with keep Bank and I found quite
supportive as well.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Right, I'll look into it does banking It does our
banking system work for New Zealand consumers and businesses? Dave,
do you reckon that we've got a good enough system
in place or are we being let down?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Well as far as competitiveness goes, we'd like to think
they're always getting the best deal. Okay, Since we went
through a stimulated economy more or less through COVID and
everything amped up in its price increase, and it was
it was a stimulated economy. Since then, what's happening in
the construction phase that we've seen as prices are coming
(19:50):
down to probably probably realistic levels to be fair, we're
actually becoming a lot more hungrier and we'd like to
expect that the bank.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
So your price is basically you're saying, if you have
if I asked you to put a new road in
down the road here, your price is better now than
it was.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Two years ago.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
We're a lot more competit you have to.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Be prices covered down. You're telling you competitive with your quotes,
but you carry up.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Sorry, and so we didn't like to think that the
banks and other major institutions are going to start following
that trend supplies as well. I mean, we all have
to make money, but you've just got to be a
lot more smarter about how you go about your business,
otherwise you're going to miss out.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Do you have a relationship with your bank?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Do you ever like magnificent relationship with the who the
ben Zen? Sorry, I know we're in the aliens here,
but we have a fantastic We've been with them since
day one and whatever, and that's one of the key
things we have done. Will stay pretty close to our
bank and they with us, so we don't have any
issues whatsoever. As long as we stay on in those
lines of communication.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
As long as you don't overdraft, you're okay. Cal Do
you have a good relationship with your bank?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:53):
As I said, I think we get on really well
with the guys from Kiwi Bank. Yeah, I'm pretty happy
with it.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I guess.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
I guess the Kiwi Bank do things better. Could they
be compete with the big boys? Would you?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I mean, Dave, why are you not with Kiwi Bank?
You're a Kiwi lawyer, key we bloke.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
That's a good question. Actually, so we've we've not really
looked at changing. We just said you've been looked after,
you if we've been looked after. So and it's interesting
hearing from Carl that there's not two dissimilar interest rates
and what have you, and the levels of service we
have are fantastic. I just can't I can't really speak
highly enough of what we are getting from our bank
as far as feedback, advice and actually support. Really can't
(21:32):
ask for any more than that.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
I think that's key, really is if you've been looked after,
then you're happy. If you're not been looked after, change
because the reality is there's not a lot of loyalty
from the banks to the customers these days. It's not
like twenty years ago, thirty years ago we had long
term relationships good to here Dave does have them. But
my experience has always been that I deal with a
manager and we get on really well and it's really good.
Then he gets promoted and then get someone else and
then it may or may not work from that point on.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
But you know, I'm.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Always intrigued by the big, big businesses like Spark and
those places who work really really hard to get new
customers but do very little to retain current customers.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Have you as a hospitality operator? I have, so I'm
quite a put in my hand up is as it changed.
I mean, I rang a guy I'm looking to buy
a piece of equipment, quite an expensive piece of equipment,
and I rang a guy that finances me over the
phone said I'll send you an application that was twelve
pages long. And I said, what the hell's changed? And
he said, oh, your hospital. None of the no one
(22:25):
wants to touch hospital at the moment.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
I think, as we know, I mean, hospital is suffering
at the moment, probably more than most areas. And I
think if you're in hospital and you're trying to raise
funds from the banks, they're not going to be that
interested in hearing from you. I think that's the reality
of it. And I think we have to expect that
to carry on for another six to nine months.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I think I need to get into roading with Dave,
and I need to find that job and get out
the roading.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
All those a job still going over well.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I don't want to bitch that a year because last
time I mentioned he dropped his water and fell off
the sea. So he said he would give me a job.
But then you know, you could hear his partners Regorg
give up, say him give him that old father a job.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
No way.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Power prices are at record high in New Zealand, our
biggest electricity gent tailors, and now it's profits up hundreds
of millions of dollars. All amidst our call that we're
in a crisis. The government is now moving to boost
electricity supply. Carl, how's that changed for you? I mean,
electricity prices used to be about three percent or two
and a half to three percent for me. Now they're
(23:22):
about six which is almost the same as rent should be.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
I think I had a little look before I came
on the show actually to see how we're going, and
I think maybe we're about thirty percent higher than we
were a year and a half ago on electricity.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
I mean it's massive, It is quite big.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
I mean, to be fair, when I look at all
the other bills that have gone up, I don't necessarily
think it's any bigger than what the other precures we've had.
I mean, i'd say that you know, just about everything
has gone up so substantially for us.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Yeah, it's all right for our rates to go up.
So it's all right for our rates to go up
by thirty percent. And if you're saying it's okay for
electricity prices to.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Go oh no, the rate's gone up by more than
the electricity. That's my whole point, you know. I mean
it's all relative. I mean, obviously we have an issue
if we can't keep up with supply going forward, and
we need to be having them reinvest in that. So
if the one hundreds of million dollars a product profit
of being reinvested, then that's probably what we need to
be having happened. But if it's not happening, then we're
probably a little bit of trouble.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Right, Dave, how does the supply crisis concern you? I mean,
are you big at electricity users your organization?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
No, But we've gone solace to be honest, with the
installed solar at work, and that provides most of our
power use. But I'll tell you where it does have
an impact. Recently, You'll see you may have seen a
closure of the Crool International pop mall and the Tongue
Wai saw Mill two hundred and thirty people employed in
those mills, and their power went up from one hundred
(24:45):
dollars per mega what hour to five hundred dollars per
mega what hour over a three year period, which is
an effect actually made that business unattendable. That has a
downstream effect obviously on the Ruapehu region and also probably
far reaching into the lights of the port of Napier
where a lot of that export material went out of
So how the exorbitant costs And that's one of those
(25:10):
supplies that maybe need to have a look at what
they're doing. We were all sort of trying to clean
things back a bit and bring inflation back. We need
to actually manage their supplies in that sense, I believe, Well.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That's great stuff. That's sad, but great information to have.
I've always wondered why the government don't do and now
I realized, because they own all these detailers anyway, or
a large percentage, why they don't just give you free
solar on every house and you pay it off over
a period of time, or if you sell the house
you pay it back. I mean, if either of you
thought that that would be a good idea, that would
(25:41):
take a hell of a lot of out of the grid,
wouldn't it or would it?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I definitely think sol is the idea, especially for residential.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Do you have it residentially as well?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
No, not yet, but we will be look at the
pool wall.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Oh that didn't work out? So have you got a call?
Speaker 5 (26:01):
Unfortunately not We were thinking about it. But I mean again,
it's a big investment, cash up frontage safe. The government
would lend you the money, but the reality is, at
some point everyone pays, you know, everything that we do,
everything that happens, at some point there is a cost
and someone has to bear it. And you know, the
government unfortunately doesn't actually have an endless pile of cash
that's sitting around that they can addition to stuff either.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Dave, what how much is that? How long is the
payback on your solar at work? Because I've got a
cafe that I think would benefit greatly out of solar
solar panels? But how how long do you work the
investment out?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Over? As this good question? Because over and that she
had too much to do with that side. I'm so sorry.
I don't can't tell you, but it's we're providing about
eighty percent of our power out of it until you
do that. Wow. So and it's amazing how how it
works on a day that's not what you'd consider sunny,
so it still picks up, still picks up. So it's
actually have you got.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
A what do you call it?
Speaker 3 (26:57):
A battery pack there as well, so you can keep
it in yourself and go back into the grid.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
So we don't use the battery pair, there is that
option to do so. Yeah, to be quite, it'll be
five years.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I would think that pays a battery.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, i'd say something like that. Wow, it wasn't that.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Me and Carl are just looking at it with bit
of breath. Figure, hell, hell that would work.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
It must be the Capitany's son. I thought it was
about a fifteen twenty year paid bad for most people.
But if you're using a lot and a lot of panels,
and I guess you're getting a bigger benefit.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Right, Trades and Construction, Dave, hopefully you know a little
bit about this. I keep hearing from property developers aren't
doing many or if any deals at the moment with
a drop of interest rates, Well we see more deals
on the horizon. What are you hearing? Are you feeling it?
Are you getting the big developers ringing you again?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
There is a there's a start of something building, there's
a developer with and he was acually thinking about not continuing,
and now he's making indications that he's going to do that.
The actual builds are starting to happen, just slowly, but
like I said earlier, there's a lot more advertising going
on at the moment, more than it's been for several years.
(28:04):
We're there, the A ones and the Platinum homes are
really trying to make it effort to get things going
because now with these interesting interest rates coming down, is
what's going to probably kickstart that that hopefully the escalation
and work through construction, vertical construction, through residential.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
So Carl, what are you hearing?
Speaker 5 (28:26):
I think you know that lag effect is still going
to take place. I think you know people will start
warming up again. I know a lot of people were
walking away from deals not that long ago. So now
with this more positive interest rate scenario, in this thought
that maybe we're heading in the right direction now, I
think maybe we start seeing that build, but I think,
you know, again, six to nine months for it to
start to build into something that's really substantial, I'd imagine biggest.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Rumor that's been floating around town for a while.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Is.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Companies associated with Peter Jackson and fran Walsh have purchased
more than one hundred million dollars worth of property in
Larle Bay on the waterfront, which suggests that could be
a long rumored movie museum. I've also heard there might
be some sort of film training school out there really quickly,
because I've got to go to an ad break for
you both, David, how big would this be for Wetington?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Massive? I just think the hefty of the roading infrastructure
bell to handle the traffic, that's the number one thing.
It's bad enough now to get back and forward. So no,
I'm serious to up with that.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Yeah no, but you're right.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
But the whole thing for the Worlington area will be fantastic,
especially with the training institute attached to it.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Okay, that massive, I mean we can't be we can't
actually say how grateful we should be for Peter Jackson
Van Walsh's investment in Wetnington and continued investment in Wantington.
I would have rather seen it as Keena obviously, where
he wanted it in the first place, but I think
anywhere in Wannington it's got to be a positive, very city.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Right, Oh guys, someone really really special comes into town, right,
someone that's never been to Wellington before. You're picking them
up at eleven am at Wellington Airport. It's been a
bit windy. Hopefully the plane didn't catch fire, landed, are
okay and they're feeling like they're all right? You picked
them up at Wellington More Wellington the airport, Dave Mills.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
I know you're going to get out to Capity as
quickly as you can. But what do you do?
Speaker 3 (30:04):
And you can take them straight to Capit if you
can bypass Wellington, what would you do with that very
special person when they flew into Wellington Airport?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I'm surprised you're asking me that. You know, I'll take
them to a Saints game, but seriously, well also the
tour lines or a Pride game. We've got to get
our community going. But now I'd probably just take them
for a walk down down the waterfront. To be honest
with you, everything's down there. Call them to a couple
of bars, maybe have a latte or something like that,
but just down the waterfront, just soaking some of their
(30:33):
ambiance that's down there.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Yeah, Carl, what would you do a part? Give him?
Speaker 5 (30:38):
A free ice cream. I do exactly the same. I
think the waterfront is out as really the heart and
soul of Wontington and what's special about it? To paper,
I think is probably worth a visit just for the
Gallipoli display if nothing else, So that and then a
meal it shed five would probably be my preference. But otherwise,
you know, if I was a bit younger and a
bit more vibe we wanted, then it would probably be
Monsoon Poon or Napoli and then probably drink it. Maybe
(31:01):
Hawthorne Lounge or maybe somewhere like Library would probably be
my cup.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Okay, what's this fly? You've just given me?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Just a fly that the unions wouldn't have let the
posties deliver. Yeah, I was so lucky I wasn't on
there that week, weren't they? Yeah, just riding my mailbox
before I came down here. It just was from better
Wellington and I thought you might like a copy. Your
future reach bill will be twenty and twenty six. Of
it was nine than five hundred, now twenty twenty six,
it's going to be fourteen thousand, and twenty and twenty nine.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
It's going to be twenty four thousand. They're out. I'll
put that.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
I'll put that up on our Facebook page for you
to have a look at. Thank you both very much
for coming. And we didn't even get to talk about
Golden Mile. That's probably a good thing. We would and
didn't have long enough, did we with Carl. Thank you
both very much for what you do for Wellington. Appreciate
and appreciate you coming in and have a great afternoon.
And let's be positive about Wellington. It feels like to
(31:58):
me and I might be too positive. It feels like
we've bottomed out. I can feel it, feel it going,
and you're both nodding, so you both agree, let's hope.
So you think it's going to be a little bit
Karl does think it's going to be a little bit longer,
and I'll take his advice. But Milsey and I are,
we're pretty optimistic.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
We're going to go for it.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
You reckon the Saints might make the finals next year.
Of course, that's real optimism.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.