How is the economy holding up, what on earth is happening on Thorndon Quay, and how do councils properly engage with local businesses?
Those were the questions for the Business Panel this week, consisting of Porirua mayor Anita Baker and The Woolstore executive director Paul Robinson.
The pair joined Nick Mills to discuss all things business in Wellington.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said, b your inside word on all
things business in the Capitol with Quinovac, better systems, better reporting,
better call, quinnobeck, oh eight hundred, quinovec.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's get down, Let's get down.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Monn John asked for the business power this week is
potty do a mayor? Good morning, Anita Baker.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Morning, how about you?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm great? How are you doing good?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
How was your tripping from Petown?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Very quick this morning? Not much traffic, no draffic.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Around and Executive director of the Wolf Store, Paul Robinson,
I bit you your trip from the Wolf Store through
Thorn along at a Key and into Tory Street would
have been a long and windy road. Well, not so much.
Speaker 5 (00:54):
Well, I know what you're talking about, Thornton and Key,
but coming across town I have to say, pretty quiet
was it on the Monday morning?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
But I mean I had to go to the Guthrie
Barnes Short Store last Saturday Saturday week ago to look
at some wallpaper. It's a disgrace.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Well, it's somewhere between a disgrace and impossible.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Sorry, disgrace and impossible. So what's going wrong? What can
be done to assist what's happening in Thornton.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Well we're advocating for a pause to be put on
that project and for a review to be done. I
mean there's basically three areas that the whole project is
based on really faulty safety information. The impacts on businesses
have never been assessed. And thirdly, and probably most egregiously
(01:46):
for all Wellingtonians, Thornton Key is not just a place
for cars, it's actually a place for pipes. It has
eight major water mains run along its length, two of
those are over one hundred years old, and the road works.
The new roading system is being built directly above one
hundred and ten year old sewer. That sewer is now
(02:09):
unserviceable without redoing all the work that's been done at
the moment.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I mean, you wouldn't read about it, would you. You
would be you.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Wouldn't You wouldn't get a building consent to do it
if you were doing it on your own property and
be sure of.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
That, Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, let's talk about
the economy. Let's start with the economy, Anita. You know
that we know that from being in Warrington and I'm
sure Paul will be giving you the same pieces of
information that I gave you that it's pretty damned tough
out there. We are in a recession, there's fears of
the larger rise in unemployment over the rest of the year,
and inflation is still biting it but reducing a little bit.
(02:44):
What's your outlook on things right now? How are you feeling,
How your business is feeling, how is your city feeling.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
People are struggling with a lot of people and putty
to our work for government, so a lot of people
have lost their jobs. Our coffee shops tell us that
people are going in, but they're sharing a plate or
buying a muffin and splitting it. So people aren't going
out as much. The restaurants are, you know, are slower,
definitely slower, and less people on the ground. I notice
not wandering around. The mull's not as busy. And if
(03:11):
you go shopping, I don't come to town to shop.
I'll go to Poddydu, I'll go to Otechi just as close.
We still want our free parking or we have paid parking,
so our free spaces are taken up more. But it's
tough for people petrol's gone up, food's gone up, rates
are about to go up, so everybody is struggling. Even
(03:31):
the people who had money will you'd think have money,
are struggling because mortgage rates have gone up. So it's
a tough time and I don't really see much changing
for the next.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Year will change things and what can you as a
council do to help your businesses in your area.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
For us, we support local business. Obviously it's Business Month
and Putty we started with our Love Local which is
our huge expo. We started that in Covid. We had
one hundred and thirty five businesses, three nine hundred people through.
It's a free day on a Saturday. We do it
once a year. Lots of businesses come out and then
during Business Month we've had lots of speakers. We've got
Barbara Kendall, bread Olsen Stilled to come Helmet from Nadie
(04:09):
Tower and it's a it's a way to support them
to making sure our new business is Like Paul's got
a new business that's going to open very shortly, which
I'm really excited about actually working with him on consents
and doing those things quicker so that businesses can open.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
It's a great segue for me, Paul, because you do business,
a lot of business in Wellington. Now you've done business
and is there a difference in dealing with PoTA and
dealing with Wellington.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Oh, undoubtedly. We some years ago we decided to distribute
our business equally across Wellington Aura in the Hut Valley
and we did that at the time for seismic reasons,
to spread our earthquake risk. But what's happened over the
years is that with Poorersity Council, they're economic development people.
(04:57):
They've been talking to us, you know, just on a
monthly basis. So we've had we've had a couple of
really good projects out there, but we haven't found the
same opportunities to do stuff in Wellington.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
No one cares and Wellington no one's trying to help him.
Work with you in Wellington well no.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
I guess with the old wall store down in Thornton Key,
which is our sort of flagship, what's happened with that
is we strengthened it back very soon after the christ
At earthquake, and then as climate change started to become
more important, we spent a few million dollars reducing the
carbon footprint of that building significantly. And as soon as
(05:36):
we finished that, we had let's get Wellington moving come
along and say, well, we're actually going to take away
the whole economic underpinning of that, which is going to
take away your car parks so your customers can't come
and visit you. And that's been I have to say,
that's been distressing.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Has it? What about you said you also did do
business in Lahart Compare Lowhart Body or in Wellington.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
Lower Hut's Hut Valley's got a great gen pool that's
got that of manufacturing Gene Paul and we sort of
focus a bit on industrial property. We're very, very fond
of the Hut Valley and the businesses out there that
are doing good Kiwi stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yes, So why is it that the two proliferal cities
and I bet your Upperhart with one gup is exactly
the same, are all there shaking the the pom poms
and saying come and do business with us, Anita. And
yet we find our own city council in Wellington saying, oh,
if you want to go out to Poor Paul, go,
if you want to go out to Lower Hut go.
(06:40):
I mean, doesn't that seem strange.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Do You are very strange, And we're happy to take
any business that wants to move to Potter obviously, but
you have to work with business. If you haven't got
business in your city center, you haven't got a city center.
But we need Wellington to actually thrive because as a region,
if it's not thriving, the rest of us are struggling.
So we need Wellington to actually become alive. I used
to go down where the ball store was, go to
(07:02):
the cafe shop down there, go to the fabric shop.
I don't go then. I don't drive through there. There's
no car parks, there's road cones for everybody in the city,
so it's not a place I want to come anymore.
So I understand why Paul's getting frustrated. But for me
at the top, I say too, I see we are
open for business. Whoever wants to come, we are open,
so we have to be positive and work with them.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Does that sort of make you a little bit anxious
with all your developments in town?
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Well are we constantly anxious? But I thought Wayne Guppy
last week on your show, he summed that up very well,
didn't he?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Nick Wig one hundred percent out.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
When Wellington hurts the rest of us and the other
in the two valleys we hurt as well.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, that's that's I was about to mention that, because
that's I mean, we're the We're the four hundred thousand.
You know, there are the one hundred and twenty thousands
out there, So we need you need the masses.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
We need them to work. I get people coming out
from Wellington all the time to shop at the weekends
talking to us, and they're saying, you're so available, you know,
and you'll talk to us on the streets.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
So yeah, business panel today we have executive director of
the Wall Store Paul Robinson and Mayor of Potty to
A City, Anita Baker. Nita, let's talk about the censu's
latest results. I mean, I don't know whether you would
have seen this or heard this, but I'm sure you
would as mayor of por Warrington population didn't grow by
a single person between twenty and eighteen and twenty twenty
(08:28):
three senses, but the popular both population of both Pottido
and Hut and the wire Rappid did. Are more people
in businesses moving away from the Wellington city to other
places in the regions and if they are, why.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
I think they're moving at the moment for affordability and choice,
So in here you don't have it. In the hut
and Potido, we have choice. You can movement department, a
townhouse or a house. But people are just as many
people are moving from Pottidua to the Carpety Coast. In
Levin in particular, a lot of people are retiring to
live in they can sell their house in Pottydoer and
put money in the bank, or they're going over the
(09:02):
hill to Great Town and Featherston. So I think there's
movement all around the region. But it's about what's there
for people to have. It's affordability.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I mean, you've got suburbs that are now million dollar suburbs,
haven't you.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Absolutely, you know, Like you know, when I.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Grew up in Tawa or Linden Pori, Roua didn't have
suburbs of five hundred thousand dollar houses when they were
in Tawer or Redwood, did they?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (09:24):
No, they didn't. And even in Canon's Creek White Tangarua,
the houses are seven eight hundred, nine hundred thousand. So
nothing is affordable at the moment. So people are going
further north. You know you can buy a house and
live in for five hundred thousand can. Yes, and that's
a new build and with the new motorway transmission galley,
it's only thirty minutes down the road from Potida Paul.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Is this Wellington being bad and these other suburbs or
these other regional city has been good? Or is it
Wellington been bad and we just want to get the
hell out of Wellington.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Well. I think we've got some choices going forward, and
I think the opportunity that the valleys have got are
to offer sort of a medium density type housing environment
which appeals to me. One of the things which I
thought maybe we could talk about is Helmet Modlick, CEO
(10:16):
of NATI Tower, is leading this conversation around the edges
of Porer City Council, et cetera, around how do we
make Poruh the most livable city for families in New Zealand.
And it's a fantastic conversation. We did talk the other
day about about how do you feel when you see
(10:36):
a sixteen story apartment block. I don't get any positive
feelings when I look at one of those. I don't
care how flash they are.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I don't want to live in it.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
How do you feel when you drive through Papamoa and
you see a standalone house with a one point eight
meter brown wooden fence going one meter away from the
wall all the around. I don't feel good about.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
That, but I do feel So what's the answer?
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Well, I quite like I like Kenniperu Landing when I
go past there, which is just on the south side
of Poor City. Medium density.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Is that where the old Poror hospital was?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
Is that we're talking that sort of That feels right
to me.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
So that's more townhouses, blocks of townhouses only two story.
I don't even think there's a three in there at
the moment. The only issue in there is car parking
not enough. There's new rules around no car parks. Personally
I don't agree with.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Because you set those rules.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Government set the rules, and then council follow them through.
I still don't agree with them. Personally. I think that
people still need cars. You still need a car to
go to the supermarket nine times out of ten, don't you.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
So those apartment blocks you're talking about, and a friend
of mine actually bought one as a show show home,
and I think he's doubled his money in six years.
Oh they have.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
They're selling like hotcakes. And Nadi Toa have the balance
of the subdivision still to do. So they've got a
lot more houses going in and it's.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
So so they not have garages. None of them have garages.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
No, some of them do have garages. It's on street.
Parking is the problem. So it's for visitors and things
that is not enough.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Okay, poor Does that worry you?
Speaker 5 (12:02):
Oh? I think that's a soluble problem.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
But I do think what a sol solvable How is
it a solvable problem?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Now?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
I live in a suburb in Wellington right and now
when I go leave my suburb to come to town,
I have to give way ten or fifteen times and
three hundred meters because there's no room to for two
cars to go past. Right now, in Wellington we've got people.
Every street's got cars both sides of the street. Is
that a solvable problem?
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Well, I think it is what it is. I don't
think there's anything more than you can say than that.
But I still think the principle of that medium density
housing is fantastic. And I thought think that if Wellington
started to think about the issues involved in building high
(12:50):
rise like high density housing. We know that's very, very expensive.
You know that's that's sort of twelve to fifteen thousand
dollars a square meter. It's extraordinarily high. And I don't
know how we solve housing affordability when we're building at
that cost. Whereas if you're building, say a house, an
upper hut or in Parua, you might be building at
(13:13):
five thousand dollars a square meter. There is some hope
that that can be affordable.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Why is it? Why can either of you answer this
simple question? Because I had a discussion with a property
developer the other day about this. Why can they do
that for half the price in Australia that we're doing here?
I mean, I remember building a million dollar home for
three thousand square foot three thousand and square foot. I mean,
you're not you're both nodding with me. I'm right, aren't I?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Oh, you are right. I have to be on the
building game. And it has doubled, and you're right, it's
up to five thousand squad meter, but it's the cost
of the land underneath it is raised. But then fletchers
have a monopoly and everything's being imported in and the
cost raises are going up. Every three to six months.
The builders used to set a price. They can't do
that anymore because they go along to Bunnings or wherever
(13:57):
they're buying at placemakers and it's gone up again.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
So that change pol monopoly.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
No, I can't. I can't see that's changing. But what
it does point towards is for us to start taking
a regional approach planning. I mean, my pontificate on the
matter is that at the moment we have these cities,
Wellington City Council in particular, engaged in monocentric planning, designing
(14:23):
the city as if it finishes at narrowing a gorge
and at the airport. We should be designing a city
that starts at the airport and finishes at Levin. It
should be a polycentric so.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
To be a region, we should be amalgamated.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
The values in that is that you should be able
to go from Poruh to the Hut Valley in fifteen
to twenty minutes, either by public transport or by private transport.
You should be able to go Hut Valley to town
in fifteen to thirty minutes, and you shall be able
to go out to Porou from Wellington in the same time,
if we achieved that we'd.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Have a good city, we would and to do that
we need to open up the regions. Have the toll
roads going in if we want those roads given I
do agree with the toll roads. It's the only way
to make us.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Can I throw one in for you? Right? For both
of you? Because I was at a function where I
was speaking to someone. I'm not going to mention who
it was and what their job was, but they gave
me the impression that the government are really serious about
this underground tunnel from the terrace till Colberni. Now you're
both looking at me a little bit blank. But this person,
(15:31):
I've got to tell you, knew what he was talking about.
He thinks that that could be an actual viable thing
to do. I mean, would that fix your problem?
Speaker 5 (15:41):
And it?
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Oh, it'd be awesome just to get to the airport
in the hospital and make things move around the city more.
You could have more housing inside the city and Cuban
Moorlands stare of the businesses there. But that's only one thing.
We need to get from the hut to put.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
You to her.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
So we need that road to go. You know, fifty
eight is very slow it's taking them forever to build.
I heard a rumor that the cost to go through
that tunnel might be high figures.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I've got the figure he told me that from two
and I thought one hundred and two billion.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
No, no, no, isn't to drive through.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
It yourself to it as a toll.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
As a toll the tolls were going to be really
because of the cost to build it. I think it
would be excellent.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I've got the cost. You want to hear the count
they reckon that they've costed it. The work that's getting done.
This I'm exposing a bit here, was between three hundred
and fifty and four hundred million a kilometer, and with inflation,
so that's half a billion a kilometer four kilometers, two
(16:39):
billion dollars. I mean, if that was durable at that price, Paul,
what are your thoughts? You're looking at me like I'm
a dreamer.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
I don't worry. I'm thinking about transmission gully and thinking
about the cost per lane kilometer that I did on
the back of a envelope. What was that well, I
reckon that was fifty or sixty grand per lane kilometer,
if my memory is correct, say two.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
I don't think you're right, are you sorry?
Speaker 5 (17:07):
Per fifty or sixty thousand dollars per per meter? So anyway,
however I worked it out, transmission gully actually looks really
really cheap.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
It's opened the region and the tunnel would do the
same thing.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
One point two b then dollars thirty two kilometers. We're
about what's that forty million a kilometer or something.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yea, But I mean we're going underground. We're going right underground.
And I mean the fact that this person knew what
he was talking about might have been involved in some way,
said that the government's serious about it. That made me think, Well.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Now to Sydney. See the tunnels there, they're awesome, they work,
they make a city move.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I've got to take a break for the headlines. But
the other thing that he said, and maybe he's right
or maybe he's wrong, and both you can ponder this
while we have a break, that Wellington's one of the
very few major cities in the world that has State
Highway one running through the city.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Totally agree and unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Anita, I want to start with you on this one,
although Paul, I'd love to get your opinion on it
as well. Having a thing called a porror business month.
What is it? How important it is and how is important?
How important is it that that you take the front
as counsel, take the front foot with business.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
I think it's really important because we need to be
supporting our businesses and showing that. As I said, it
started with our love local and then we've had so
many events. We had our Wahini Paving the Way event
and I have to say the ladies from Tookemon and
the Queen's they were the speakers, Tanya and.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Well Tanya lives in your city, didn't you?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
No, she lives in the hut, does she?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I thought she was in t Vegel.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
That's oh sorry, Yes she lives there, as Rachel, who
doesn't so it was Rachel. Yes. They were just unbelievable.
I wish more people had turned up. I'm not sure
how many people actually heard about that. Those ladies were
awesome and really inspiring. We've done an Amatai event which
was the Mary and Pacific Businesses like it's like a
dating event, get together and I have to say that
(19:04):
was really good. All the big ones and small ones
getting together. How do they get together? I did the
food Stuff's Emerging Supply Forum. Last week which was really
interesting and a number of people out from Wellington. How
do they get their products into the supermarket? That was
fascinating and people were really thankful for that. And then
we did the Pacific Navigators at Partica Thursday night, I
(19:26):
think that was and that was another really good event.
So there's lots on. We've got Barbara Kendall to come obviously,
and Brad Olson, and then Helmet finishes it off with
his Circular Economy, which is he's always interesting to listen to.
But then the final one for me is the opening
of Paul's big new adventure.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Tell us about that, Paul, tell us about what. I
didn't even know you were doing something.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
In I should invite you to the opening.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Well, that'll be nice. I'm not an a lister, so
you know I might miss out.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
There's room for you, Nick for sure. Well, this is
a project that where we had an old sort of
midlife building that was between Partika, the local art gallery,
the city's art gallery and the waterfront. Poor has had
a desire to sort of reorientate itself towards towards its
(20:16):
lovely harbor for a number of years and we just
happened to own a piece of land that provided an
opportunity to do that. So we had we had Chris Moller,
who some people will remember as the guy did Grand
designs for New Zealanders there a few years ago. He's
(20:37):
designed a building that basically creates a pedestrian arcade that
connects Partica down to the sea, and next door to that,
we've sort of created a market hall where we'll have
a range of retail and hospitality experience.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
A great spot for a cafe, wouldn't it.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
Several cafes, several.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Lots of eateries, art, it's got a glass roof so
you can sit on the second level and relax.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
I did read about I have read about it. It's
been an article about it, hasn't it. So when does
this open?
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Well, we have the arcade open for Martoiki and the
market hall will follow a few weeks later.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
And a much roughly. I mean, is this a big
investment for you? I mean I don't want you to
give me the commercial sensitive stuff, but is this a
big investment for you to be taken to a regional city.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
Well, we're just a small family business, you know. It's
my brother and two sisters and our chief executive myself.
So for us, it is a big project. It started
off being looking like quite a small project back in
pre COVID days and the days of low interest rates.
As time has gone by, it's assumed larger and larger proportions,
(21:49):
So it is a big project for I.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Mean, that's pretty spectacular for my mayor of the city.
I mean that cafe in the museum is one of
my all time favorite cafes. I mean, that's a great cafe.
The museum is amazing, That building's great, you know. I mean,
Tapara Arena is an amazing facils, rest and soul Willie
Trema for putting it all together. Without that man's vision,
(22:12):
that would never have happened. So there's some great things
happening out there, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's huge.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
We're so lucky to have Paul investing in it. On
the waterfront there, we obviously want to get involved and
it ties into our Mutaiki celebrations, which is open for everybody.
We're going to have some lights down on the waterfront
and then you go into the arena and we've got
a huge number of things going for a whole week
there that are free for people to attend.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
You get a view of the water.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yes, beautiful.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
We need to fix the harbor.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, but it is a beautiful spot, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
You know what it is to place of great beauty.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Business Week we do it every two weeks. We have
a business hour and we talk about things. Today we've
been blessed with having the presence of Mayor Alita Baker
and executive director of the Wall Store Paul Robinson. Now
those of you don't know the Wall Store, it's an
amazing beautiful old brick building that a lot of money's
been gone into over the last ten years, what i'd say,
(23:08):
ready years, twenty years. Yeah, if you drive along the
motorway leaving Wellington on your left hand side, you'll see
it in Thornton. It's beautiful. And now we are hearing
that this other nice development, beautiful development. I've seen photos
of it a couple of weeks ago, a month ago
on the paper in Porora as well. So it's great
to have you here both to have a chat. I
want to talk to you now about something that I'm
(23:31):
very passionate about. Wearlington City Council has introduced a new
policy restricting councilors from asking information on anything except for
upcoming votes labeled undemocratic and unconstitutional. A story came out
today revealing the council staff and not giving counselors copies
of legal advice on the airport's sale. Anita, This to
me is nuts because the CEO is telling the board,
(23:56):
which is the council, rather than vice versa. Now am
I reading this wrong?
Speaker 4 (24:02):
No, no you're not. And I think you're reading it
like this is because simply because they have leaks. Council table,
My council table doesn't have any leaks. The councilors can
contact me in the CEE for any information they want
and they get it. And I think that's the difference.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
But surely you can't make a decision without all the information. Absolutely,
you're the Board of directors. You're the helicopter pilot looking down,
aren't you.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
I think they're entitled to that information. And I was
really shocked to read it.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
And if you've got a leak, get rid of the leak.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Well they've got so many leaks. I don't know how
they can, but yeah, I'm on board. They should not
be able to do this.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Board does that amaze you? I mean, you would have
been in the corporate world. Do you know how it works.
You've got the CEO telling the board what information she
wants or he wants to give them, and nothing else.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Well, I think that's a pattern of behavior that's sort
of emerged out of let's get Wellington moving over there.
We we had these what we've had six years. Let's
get Wellington moving with this highly constructed information that's both
being dispensed to the PubL Blick and to the counselors.
(25:08):
And it's not really doesn't look very good.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So what do we do? How do we change it?
I mean, surely we want the people that we voted
on to know what's going on.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Surely, well exactly And you know, like I've as everybody knows,
I've had an agenda about the Thornton Key those things.
But now I even see something as simple as the
council agreed to start creating these changing lanes reports. That
was some economic reports to look at the impacts of
roading changes and other factors on retail activity around Wellington.
(25:44):
So the first one came out that said, oh, we
can't see any impact from roading changes on retail, and
everybody said, well, we're not sure about your methodology for
compiling that report. A draft second report was produced back
in April, and that actually painted a very dire picture
for retail and Wellington. It showed basically showed that Wellington
(26:08):
retail was down fifteen percent while Auckland's retail CBD retail
was growing. And that report's just disappeared. It's never made
it beyond draft report, so it hasn't got to the councilors.
Well the council basically had it. I don't know how
I came across it, but it just turned up my
email box one day as a draft report and it's
(26:30):
just disappeared. It hasn't been published.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Can I be as rude as to say Anita Baker
and you can avoid this because I know that it
will be putting you on the spotlight that Barbara mccarro,
the CEO of Wellington, has far too much power.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
To be really nice. My CEO doesn't work like that.
So we see each other every day, we discuss things.
Everything's on the same level. I think in Wellington they
work differently and it's certainly not how that we work.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Compt you to are do you think it's broken?
Speaker 4 (27:02):
That's for them to fix? And I think you guys
have all worked that out, but it doesn't happen like that.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Put it, Paul, do you think it's broken? Do you
think it's broken? That Basically the CEO is telling KPMG
do a report on the sale of airport, but we
only want to hear the good side. We don't want
to hear anything bad about our idea of what we're
going to do with the money. So only give us
the good stuff. And here's two hundred thousand to do it.
Do you not think that's broken?
Speaker 4 (27:25):
So?
Speaker 5 (27:25):
I think the data around that was that when Mayor
Lester was the mayor, public favorability for council decision making
was running at thirty six percent, and I think throughout
the Foster and now the fund our mayoralties, we're down
to sixteen percent and going south. That to me is broke.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Am I getting it wrong? Tell me if I'm getting.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
It wrong, it's broke.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
It's broke. And he is not saying anything, but she's smiling.
Ready we had a camera in here, Hey, Paul, We'd
be all right if we had a camera it here.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
I just have a great counsel and a great ce
That's all I can say, and I don't see the
same thing. You know, it's different dynamics.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Do we need to do something about it? It's the
next question. Do we wait for the eighteen months or
do we do something about it earlier.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
Well, that's down to counselors and whether they want to
address the issue or not. But I do know that
the view I've formed is that our public institutions that
are designed to protect us from poor decision making are
looking very very thinly spread at the moment. You know,
(28:42):
I think the complaints that get laid with the Ombudsmen,
of which there are many, that office is having difficulty
responding to the sheer volume. I don't think the Order
to General has got any mind space to look at
the Wellington specific issues. Doesn't seem to be anything coming
(29:03):
out of that. The Minister's the Crown ministers are prevented
from interfering unless it's the most dire circumstance. So we're
not that well protected by our public institutions.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Do you agree. I can't say I don't want to
put you in that spot. That's that was very daughty
of me, right over, Anita Baker, someone really special.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
I've got to get through the traffic and out to
put it. I'm going to Katahi on the waterfront, Paul's
new new outfit.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
What's in the ka and what does it mean? The
art trail sharing food bearing sharing, sharing.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Food, and then over to Partaker, all in one spot.
You can't wait for anything else.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Gosh, okay, I thought that was going to come from you, okay, Paul,
Paul Robinson from the Wall Store. Someone really special, a
cousin that you haven't seen for forty years or hasn't
been to Warrington before, and you picked up at Wearrington
Airport three o'clock on a Saturday afternoon. What are you
going to do? Well?
Speaker 5 (30:06):
If daylight saving, I'll take them out to Butterfly Creek
in Eastbourne for a walk through the bush there, because
I think that's an outstanding walk. And then I'll whistle
them over to rang A Toy and Parua and take
them up the top of that hole, which is another
outstanding walk.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
And then is that colonial knob? Is that the same?
Speaker 5 (30:29):
You're not allowed to go on anymore.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
You're not allowed to call it colonial nob I grew up.
I grew up out there colonial knobs, colonial nob I.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Did I, But I don't call it anymore.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
It's Dranger toy and it's the most beautiful bike ride
and walkway that you can do. And then I'd take
them down to Katahi afterwards for a bit of hospo.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Of course you would, of course you would great to
have you both in the studio, Paul. I hope you
have some real success with what's going on in Thornton.
I think Wellingtonians feel for you. I think anybody that's
driven through Thornton lately feels for you. I think that
they've done. What Wellington City Council has done to Thornton
is a disgrace and very very sad. But trust me,
(31:07):
it's coming to a street by by you anywhere. It's
going to happen. You're not You're going to be first
careful for the ring, but it's going to happen to
other people. I need to bake it, keep up the
good work and potty do it. I haven't been out
for a while, but I must go out and have
a love look around. Yeah, I'm going to go out
and have a look. I saw it, I saw the
I said that'd be great. I could open a great
cafe out there.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
So I looked love to have it.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, never thought about it. So there you go. And
now I will go out. Not this afternoon. I want
to get some sleep this afternoon after a sleepless night
last night. But I will go out the next couple
of days and have a look. Thank you both for
joining us on the show this morning. Great to have
you here.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
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You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's get down, Let's get down.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Monn John asked for the business power this week is
potty do a mayor? Good morning, Anita Baker.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Morning, how about you?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm great? How are you doing good?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
How was your tripping from Petown?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Very quick this morning? Not much traffic, no draffic.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Around and Executive director of the Wolf Store, Paul Robinson,
I bit you your trip from the Wolf Store through
Thorn along at a Key and into Tory Street would
have been a long and windy road. Well, not so much.
Speaker 5 (00:54):
Well, I know what you're talking about, Thornton and Key,
but coming across town I have to say, pretty quiet
was it on the Monday morning?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
But I mean I had to go to the Guthrie
Barnes Short Store last Saturday Saturday week ago to look
at some wallpaper. It's a disgrace.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Well, it's somewhere between a disgrace and impossible.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Sorry, disgrace and impossible. So what's going wrong? What can
be done to assist what's happening in Thornton.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Well we're advocating for a pause to be put on
that project and for a review to be done. I
mean there's basically three areas that the whole project is
based on really faulty safety information. The impacts on businesses
have never been assessed. And thirdly, and probably most egregiously
(01:46):
for all Wellingtonians, Thornton Key is not just a place
for cars, it's actually a place for pipes. It has
eight major water mains run along its length, two of
those are over one hundred years old, and the road works.
The new roading system is being built directly above one
hundred and ten year old sewer. That sewer is now
(02:09):
unserviceable without redoing all the work that's been done at
the moment.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I mean, you wouldn't read about it, would you. You
would be you.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Wouldn't You wouldn't get a building consent to do it
if you were doing it on your own property and
be sure of.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
That, Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, let's talk about
the economy. Let's start with the economy, Anita. You know
that we know that from being in Warrington and I'm
sure Paul will be giving you the same pieces of
information that I gave you that it's pretty damned tough
out there. We are in a recession, there's fears of
the larger rise in unemployment over the rest of the year,
and inflation is still biting it but reducing a little bit.
(02:44):
What's your outlook on things right now? How are you feeling,
How your business is feeling, how is your city feeling.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
People are struggling with a lot of people and putty
to our work for government, so a lot of people
have lost their jobs. Our coffee shops tell us that
people are going in, but they're sharing a plate or
buying a muffin and splitting it. So people aren't going
out as much. The restaurants are, you know, are slower,
definitely slower, and less people on the ground. I notice
not wandering around. The mull's not as busy. And if
(03:11):
you go shopping, I don't come to town to shop.
I'll go to Poddydu, I'll go to Otechi just as close.
We still want our free parking or we have paid parking,
so our free spaces are taken up more. But it's
tough for people petrol's gone up, food's gone up, rates
are about to go up, so everybody is struggling. Even
(03:31):
the people who had money will you'd think have money,
are struggling because mortgage rates have gone up. So it's
a tough time and I don't really see much changing
for the next.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Year will change things and what can you as a
council do to help your businesses in your area.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
For us, we support local business. Obviously it's Business Month
and Putty we started with our Love Local which is
our huge expo. We started that in Covid. We had
one hundred and thirty five businesses, three nine hundred people through.
It's a free day on a Saturday. We do it
once a year. Lots of businesses come out and then
during Business Month we've had lots of speakers. We've got
Barbara Kendall, bread Olsen Stilled to come Helmet from Nadie
(04:09):
Tower and it's a it's a way to support them
to making sure our new business is Like Paul's got
a new business that's going to open very shortly, which
I'm really excited about actually working with him on consents
and doing those things quicker so that businesses can open.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
It's a great segue for me, Paul, because you do business,
a lot of business in Wellington. Now you've done business
and is there a difference in dealing with PoTA and
dealing with Wellington.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Oh, undoubtedly. We some years ago we decided to distribute
our business equally across Wellington Aura in the Hut Valley
and we did that at the time for seismic reasons,
to spread our earthquake risk. But what's happened over the
years is that with Poorersity Council, they're economic development people.
(04:57):
They've been talking to us, you know, just on a
monthly basis. So we've had we've had a couple of
really good projects out there, but we haven't found the
same opportunities to do stuff in Wellington.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
No one cares and Wellington no one's trying to help him.
Work with you in Wellington well no.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
I guess with the old wall store down in Thornton Key,
which is our sort of flagship, what's happened with that
is we strengthened it back very soon after the christ
At earthquake, and then as climate change started to become
more important, we spent a few million dollars reducing the
carbon footprint of that building significantly. And as soon as
(05:36):
we finished that, we had let's get Wellington moving come
along and say, well, we're actually going to take away
the whole economic underpinning of that, which is going to
take away your car parks so your customers can't come
and visit you. And that's been I have to say,
that's been distressing.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Has it? What about you said you also did do
business in Lahart Compare Lowhart Body or in Wellington.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
Lower Hut's Hut Valley's got a great gen pool that's
got that of manufacturing Gene Paul and we sort of
focus a bit on industrial property. We're very, very fond
of the Hut Valley and the businesses out there that
are doing good Kiwi stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yes, So why is it that the two proliferal cities
and I bet your Upperhart with one gup is exactly
the same, are all there shaking the the pom poms
and saying come and do business with us, Anita. And
yet we find our own city council in Wellington saying, oh,
if you want to go out to Poor Paul, go,
if you want to go out to Lower Hut go.
(06:40):
I mean, doesn't that seem strange.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Do You are very strange, And we're happy to take
any business that wants to move to Potter obviously, but
you have to work with business. If you haven't got
business in your city center, you haven't got a city center.
But we need Wellington to actually thrive because as a region,
if it's not thriving, the rest of us are struggling.
So we need Wellington to actually become alive. I used
to go down where the ball store was, go to
(07:02):
the cafe shop down there, go to the fabric shop.
I don't go then. I don't drive through there. There's
no car parks, there's road cones for everybody in the city,
so it's not a place I want to come anymore.
So I understand why Paul's getting frustrated. But for me
at the top, I say too, I see we are
open for business. Whoever wants to come, we are open,
so we have to be positive and work with them.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Does that sort of make you a little bit anxious
with all your developments in town?
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Well are we constantly anxious? But I thought Wayne Guppy
last week on your show, he summed that up very well,
didn't he?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Nick Wig one hundred percent out.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
When Wellington hurts the rest of us and the other
in the two valleys we hurt as well.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, that's that's I was about to mention that, because
that's I mean, we're the We're the four hundred thousand.
You know, there are the one hundred and twenty thousands
out there, So we need you need the masses.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
We need them to work. I get people coming out
from Wellington all the time to shop at the weekends
talking to us, and they're saying, you're so available, you know,
and you'll talk to us on the streets.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
So yeah, business panel today we have executive director of
the Wall Store Paul Robinson and Mayor of Potty to
A City, Anita Baker. Nita, let's talk about the censu's
latest results. I mean, I don't know whether you would
have seen this or heard this, but I'm sure you
would as mayor of por Warrington population didn't grow by
a single person between twenty and eighteen and twenty twenty
(08:28):
three senses, but the popular both population of both Pottido
and Hut and the wire Rappid did. Are more people
in businesses moving away from the Wellington city to other
places in the regions and if they are, why.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
I think they're moving at the moment for affordability and choice,
So in here you don't have it. In the hut
and Potido, we have choice. You can movement department, a
townhouse or a house. But people are just as many
people are moving from Pottidua to the Carpety Coast. In
Levin in particular, a lot of people are retiring to
live in they can sell their house in Pottydoer and
put money in the bank, or they're going over the
(09:02):
hill to Great Town and Featherston. So I think there's
movement all around the region. But it's about what's there
for people to have. It's affordability.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I mean, you've got suburbs that are now million dollar suburbs,
haven't you.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Absolutely, you know, Like you know, when I.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Grew up in Tawa or Linden Pori, Roua didn't have
suburbs of five hundred thousand dollar houses when they were
in Tawer or Redwood, did they?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (09:24):
No, they didn't. And even in Canon's Creek White Tangarua,
the houses are seven eight hundred, nine hundred thousand. So
nothing is affordable at the moment. So people are going
further north. You know you can buy a house and
live in for five hundred thousand can. Yes, and that's
a new build and with the new motorway transmission galley,
it's only thirty minutes down the road from Potida Paul.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Is this Wellington being bad and these other suburbs or
these other regional city has been good? Or is it
Wellington been bad and we just want to get the
hell out of Wellington.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Well. I think we've got some choices going forward, and
I think the opportunity that the valleys have got are
to offer sort of a medium density type housing environment
which appeals to me. One of the things which I
thought maybe we could talk about is Helmet Modlick, CEO
(10:16):
of NATI Tower, is leading this conversation around the edges
of Porer City Council, et cetera, around how do we
make Poruh the most livable city for families in New Zealand.
And it's a fantastic conversation. We did talk the other
day about about how do you feel when you see
(10:36):
a sixteen story apartment block. I don't get any positive
feelings when I look at one of those. I don't
care how flash they are.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I don't want to live in it.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
How do you feel when you drive through Papamoa and
you see a standalone house with a one point eight
meter brown wooden fence going one meter away from the
wall all the around. I don't feel good about.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
That, but I do feel So what's the answer?
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Well, I quite like I like Kenniperu Landing when I
go past there, which is just on the south side
of Poor City. Medium density.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Is that where the old Poror hospital was?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
Is that we're talking that sort of That feels right
to me.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
So that's more townhouses, blocks of townhouses only two story.
I don't even think there's a three in there at
the moment. The only issue in there is car parking
not enough. There's new rules around no car parks. Personally
I don't agree with.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Because you set those rules.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Government set the rules, and then council follow them through.
I still don't agree with them. Personally. I think that
people still need cars. You still need a car to
go to the supermarket nine times out of ten, don't you.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
So those apartment blocks you're talking about, and a friend
of mine actually bought one as a show show home,
and I think he's doubled his money in six years.
Oh they have.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
They're selling like hotcakes. And Nadi Toa have the balance
of the subdivision still to do. So they've got a
lot more houses going in and it's.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
So so they not have garages. None of them have garages.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
No, some of them do have garages. It's on street.
Parking is the problem. So it's for visitors and things
that is not enough.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Okay, poor Does that worry you?
Speaker 5 (12:02):
Oh? I think that's a soluble problem.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
But I do think what a sol solvable How is
it a solvable problem?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Now?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
I live in a suburb in Wellington right and now
when I go leave my suburb to come to town,
I have to give way ten or fifteen times and
three hundred meters because there's no room to for two
cars to go past. Right now, in Wellington we've got people.
Every street's got cars both sides of the street. Is
that a solvable problem?
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Well, I think it is what it is. I don't
think there's anything more than you can say than that.
But I still think the principle of that medium density
housing is fantastic. And I thought think that if Wellington
started to think about the issues involved in building high
(12:50):
rise like high density housing. We know that's very, very expensive.
You know that's that's sort of twelve to fifteen thousand
dollars a square meter. It's extraordinarily high. And I don't
know how we solve housing affordability when we're building at
that cost. Whereas if you're building, say a house, an
upper hut or in Parua, you might be building at
(13:13):
five thousand dollars a square meter. There is some hope
that that can be affordable.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Why is it? Why can either of you answer this
simple question? Because I had a discussion with a property
developer the other day about this. Why can they do
that for half the price in Australia that we're doing here?
I mean, I remember building a million dollar home for
three thousand square foot three thousand and square foot. I mean,
you're not you're both nodding with me. I'm right, aren't I?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Oh, you are right. I have to be on the
building game. And it has doubled, and you're right, it's
up to five thousand squad meter, but it's the cost
of the land underneath it is raised. But then fletchers
have a monopoly and everything's being imported in and the
cost raises are going up. Every three to six months.
The builders used to set a price. They can't do
that anymore because they go along to Bunnings or wherever
(13:57):
they're buying at placemakers and it's gone up again.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
So that change pol monopoly.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
No, I can't. I can't see that's changing. But what
it does point towards is for us to start taking
a regional approach planning. I mean, my pontificate on the
matter is that at the moment we have these cities,
Wellington City Council in particular, engaged in monocentric planning, designing
(14:23):
the city as if it finishes at narrowing a gorge
and at the airport. We should be designing a city
that starts at the airport and finishes at Levin. It
should be a polycentric so.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
To be a region, we should be amalgamated.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
The values in that is that you should be able
to go from Poruh to the Hut Valley in fifteen
to twenty minutes, either by public transport or by private transport.
You should be able to go Hut Valley to town
in fifteen to thirty minutes, and you shall be able
to go out to Porou from Wellington in the same time,
if we achieved that we'd.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Have a good city, we would and to do that
we need to open up the regions. Have the toll
roads going in if we want those roads given I
do agree with the toll roads. It's the only way
to make us.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Can I throw one in for you? Right? For both
of you? Because I was at a function where I
was speaking to someone. I'm not going to mention who
it was and what their job was, but they gave
me the impression that the government are really serious about
this underground tunnel from the terrace till Colberni. Now you're
both looking at me a little bit blank. But this person,
(15:31):
I've got to tell you, knew what he was talking about.
He thinks that that could be an actual viable thing
to do. I mean, would that fix your problem?
Speaker 5 (15:41):
And it?
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Oh, it'd be awesome just to get to the airport
in the hospital and make things move around the city more.
You could have more housing inside the city and Cuban
Moorlands stare of the businesses there. But that's only one thing.
We need to get from the hut to put.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
You to her.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
So we need that road to go. You know, fifty
eight is very slow it's taking them forever to build.
I heard a rumor that the cost to go through
that tunnel might be high figures.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I've got the figure he told me that from two
and I thought one hundred and two billion.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
No, no, no, isn't to drive through.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
It yourself to it as a toll.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
As a toll the tolls were going to be really
because of the cost to build it. I think it
would be excellent.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I've got the cost. You want to hear the count
they reckon that they've costed it. The work that's getting done.
This I'm exposing a bit here, was between three hundred
and fifty and four hundred million a kilometer, and with inflation,
so that's half a billion a kilometer four kilometers, two
(16:39):
billion dollars. I mean, if that was durable at that price, Paul,
what are your thoughts? You're looking at me like I'm
a dreamer.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
I don't worry. I'm thinking about transmission gully and thinking
about the cost per lane kilometer that I did on
the back of a envelope. What was that well, I
reckon that was fifty or sixty grand per lane kilometer,
if my memory is correct, say two.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
I don't think you're right, are you sorry?
Speaker 5 (17:07):
Per fifty or sixty thousand dollars per per meter? So anyway,
however I worked it out, transmission gully actually looks really
really cheap.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
It's opened the region and the tunnel would do the
same thing.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
One point two b then dollars thirty two kilometers. We're
about what's that forty million a kilometer or something.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yea, But I mean we're going underground. We're going right underground.
And I mean the fact that this person knew what
he was talking about might have been involved in some way,
said that the government's serious about it. That made me think, Well.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Now to Sydney. See the tunnels there, they're awesome, they work,
they make a city move.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I've got to take a break for the headlines. But
the other thing that he said, and maybe he's right
or maybe he's wrong, and both you can ponder this
while we have a break, that Wellington's one of the
very few major cities in the world that has State
Highway one running through the city.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Totally agree and unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Anita, I want to start with you on this one,
although Paul, I'd love to get your opinion on it
as well. Having a thing called a porror business month.
What is it? How important it is and how is important?
How important is it that that you take the front
as counsel, take the front foot with business.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
I think it's really important because we need to be
supporting our businesses and showing that. As I said, it
started with our love local and then we've had so
many events. We had our Wahini Paving the Way event
and I have to say the ladies from Tookemon and
the Queen's they were the speakers, Tanya and.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Well Tanya lives in your city, didn't you?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
No, she lives in the hut, does she?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I thought she was in t Vegel.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
That's oh sorry, Yes she lives there, as Rachel, who
doesn't so it was Rachel. Yes. They were just unbelievable.
I wish more people had turned up. I'm not sure
how many people actually heard about that. Those ladies were
awesome and really inspiring. We've done an Amatai event which
was the Mary and Pacific Businesses like it's like a
dating event, get together and I have to say that
(19:04):
was really good. All the big ones and small ones
getting together. How do they get together? I did the
food Stuff's Emerging Supply Forum. Last week which was really
interesting and a number of people out from Wellington. How
do they get their products into the supermarket? That was
fascinating and people were really thankful for that. And then
we did the Pacific Navigators at Partica Thursday night, I
(19:26):
think that was and that was another really good event.
So there's lots on. We've got Barbara Kendall to come obviously,
and Brad Olson, and then Helmet finishes it off with
his Circular Economy, which is he's always interesting to listen to.
But then the final one for me is the opening
of Paul's big new adventure.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Tell us about that, Paul, tell us about what. I
didn't even know you were doing something.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
In I should invite you to the opening.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Well, that'll be nice. I'm not an a lister, so
you know I might miss out.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
There's room for you, Nick for sure. Well, this is
a project that where we had an old sort of
midlife building that was between Partika, the local art gallery,
the city's art gallery and the waterfront. Poor has had
a desire to sort of reorientate itself towards towards its
(20:16):
lovely harbor for a number of years and we just
happened to own a piece of land that provided an
opportunity to do that. So we had we had Chris Moller,
who some people will remember as the guy did Grand
designs for New Zealanders there a few years ago. He's
(20:37):
designed a building that basically creates a pedestrian arcade that
connects Partica down to the sea, and next door to that,
we've sort of created a market hall where we'll have
a range of retail and hospitality experience.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
A great spot for a cafe, wouldn't it.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
Several cafes, several.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Lots of eateries, art, it's got a glass roof so
you can sit on the second level and relax.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
I did read about I have read about it. It's
been an article about it, hasn't it. So when does
this open?
Speaker 5 (21:08):
Well, we have the arcade open for Martoiki and the
market hall will follow a few weeks later.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
And a much roughly. I mean, is this a big
investment for you? I mean I don't want you to
give me the commercial sensitive stuff, but is this a
big investment for you to be taken to a regional city.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
Well, we're just a small family business, you know. It's
my brother and two sisters and our chief executive myself.
So for us, it is a big project. It started
off being looking like quite a small project back in
pre COVID days and the days of low interest rates.
As time has gone by, it's assumed larger and larger proportions,
(21:49):
So it is a big project for I.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Mean, that's pretty spectacular for my mayor of the city.
I mean that cafe in the museum is one of
my all time favorite cafes. I mean, that's a great cafe.
The museum is amazing, That building's great, you know. I mean,
Tapara Arena is an amazing facils, rest and soul Willie
Trema for putting it all together. Without that man's vision,
(22:12):
that would never have happened. So there's some great things
happening out there, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's huge.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
We're so lucky to have Paul investing in it. On
the waterfront there, we obviously want to get involved and
it ties into our Mutaiki celebrations, which is open for everybody.
We're going to have some lights down on the waterfront
and then you go into the arena and we've got
a huge number of things going for a whole week
there that are free for people to attend.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
You get a view of the water.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yes, beautiful.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
We need to fix the harbor.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, but it is a beautiful spot, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
You know what it is to place of great beauty.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Business Week we do it every two weeks. We have
a business hour and we talk about things. Today we've
been blessed with having the presence of Mayor Alita Baker
and executive director of the Wall Store Paul Robinson. Now
those of you don't know the Wall Store, it's an
amazing beautiful old brick building that a lot of money's
been gone into over the last ten years, what i'd say,
(23:08):
ready years, twenty years. Yeah, if you drive along the
motorway leaving Wellington on your left hand side, you'll see
it in Thornton. It's beautiful. And now we are hearing
that this other nice development, beautiful development. I've seen photos
of it a couple of weeks ago, a month ago
on the paper in Porora as well. So it's great
to have you here both to have a chat. I
want to talk to you now about something that I'm
(23:31):
very passionate about. Wearlington City Council has introduced a new
policy restricting councilors from asking information on anything except for
upcoming votes labeled undemocratic and unconstitutional. A story came out
today revealing the council staff and not giving counselors copies
of legal advice on the airport's sale. Anita, This to
me is nuts because the CEO is telling the board,
(23:56):
which is the council, rather than vice versa. Now am
I reading this wrong?
Speaker 4 (24:02):
No, no you're not. And I think you're reading it
like this is because simply because they have leaks. Council table,
My council table doesn't have any leaks. The councilors can
contact me in the CEE for any information they want
and they get it. And I think that's the difference.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
But surely you can't make a decision without all the information. Absolutely,
you're the Board of directors. You're the helicopter pilot looking down,
aren't you.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
I think they're entitled to that information. And I was
really shocked to read it.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
And if you've got a leak, get rid of the leak.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Well they've got so many leaks. I don't know how
they can, but yeah, I'm on board. They should not
be able to do this.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Board does that amaze you? I mean, you would have
been in the corporate world. Do you know how it works.
You've got the CEO telling the board what information she
wants or he wants to give them, and nothing else.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Well, I think that's a pattern of behavior that's sort
of emerged out of let's get Wellington moving over there.
We we had these what we've had six years. Let's
get Wellington moving with this highly constructed information that's both
being dispensed to the PubL Blick and to the counselors.
(25:08):
And it's not really doesn't look very good.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So what do we do? How do we change it?
I mean, surely we want the people that we voted
on to know what's going on.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Surely, well exactly And you know, like I've as everybody knows,
I've had an agenda about the Thornton Key those things.
But now I even see something as simple as the
council agreed to start creating these changing lanes reports. That
was some economic reports to look at the impacts of
roading changes and other factors on retail activity around Wellington.
(25:44):
So the first one came out that said, oh, we
can't see any impact from roading changes on retail, and
everybody said, well, we're not sure about your methodology for
compiling that report. A draft second report was produced back
in April, and that actually painted a very dire picture
for retail and Wellington. It showed basically showed that Wellington
(26:08):
retail was down fifteen percent while Auckland's retail CBD retail
was growing. And that report's just disappeared. It's never made
it beyond draft report, so it hasn't got to the councilors.
Well the council basically had it. I don't know how
I came across it, but it just turned up my
email box one day as a draft report and it's
(26:30):
just disappeared. It hasn't been published.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Can I be as rude as to say Anita Baker
and you can avoid this because I know that it
will be putting you on the spotlight that Barbara mccarro,
the CEO of Wellington, has far too much power.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
To be really nice. My CEO doesn't work like that.
So we see each other every day, we discuss things.
Everything's on the same level. I think in Wellington they
work differently and it's certainly not how that we work.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Compt you to are do you think it's broken?
Speaker 4 (27:02):
That's for them to fix? And I think you guys
have all worked that out, but it doesn't happen like that.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Put it, Paul, do you think it's broken? Do you
think it's broken? That Basically the CEO is telling KPMG
do a report on the sale of airport, but we
only want to hear the good side. We don't want
to hear anything bad about our idea of what we're
going to do with the money. So only give us
the good stuff. And here's two hundred thousand to do it.
Do you not think that's broken?
Speaker 4 (27:25):
So?
Speaker 5 (27:25):
I think the data around that was that when Mayor
Lester was the mayor, public favorability for council decision making
was running at thirty six percent, and I think throughout
the Foster and now the fund our mayoralties, we're down
to sixteen percent and going south. That to me is broke.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Am I getting it wrong? Tell me if I'm getting.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
It wrong, it's broke.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
It's broke. And he is not saying anything, but she's smiling.
Ready we had a camera in here, Hey, Paul, We'd
be all right if we had a camera it here.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
I just have a great counsel and a great ce
That's all I can say, and I don't see the
same thing. You know, it's different dynamics.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Do we need to do something about it? It's the
next question. Do we wait for the eighteen months or
do we do something about it earlier.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
Well, that's down to counselors and whether they want to
address the issue or not. But I do know that
the view I've formed is that our public institutions that
are designed to protect us from poor decision making are
looking very very thinly spread at the moment. You know,
(28:42):
I think the complaints that get laid with the Ombudsmen,
of which there are many, that office is having difficulty
responding to the sheer volume. I don't think the Order
to General has got any mind space to look at
the Wellington specific issues. Doesn't seem to be anything coming
(29:03):
out of that. The Minister's the Crown ministers are prevented
from interfering unless it's the most dire circumstance. So we're
not that well protected by our public institutions.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Do you agree. I can't say I don't want to
put you in that spot. That's that was very daughty
of me, right over, Anita Baker, someone really special.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
I've got to get through the traffic and out to
put it. I'm going to Katahi on the waterfront, Paul's
new new outfit.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
What's in the ka and what does it mean? The
art trail sharing food bearing sharing, sharing.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Food, and then over to Partaker, all in one spot.
You can't wait for anything else.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Gosh, okay, I thought that was going to come from you, okay, Paul,
Paul Robinson from the Wall Store. Someone really special, a
cousin that you haven't seen for forty years or hasn't
been to Warrington before, and you picked up at Wearrington
Airport three o'clock on a Saturday afternoon. What are you
going to do? Well?
Speaker 5 (30:06):
If daylight saving, I'll take them out to Butterfly Creek
in Eastbourne for a walk through the bush there, because
I think that's an outstanding walk. And then I'll whistle
them over to rang A Toy and Parua and take
them up the top of that hole, which is another
outstanding walk.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
And then is that colonial knob? Is that the same?
Speaker 5 (30:29):
You're not allowed to go on anymore.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
You're not allowed to call it colonial nob I grew up.
I grew up out there colonial knobs, colonial nob I.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Did I, But I don't call it anymore.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
It's Dranger toy and it's the most beautiful bike ride
and walkway that you can do. And then I'd take
them down to Katahi afterwards for a bit of hospo.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Of course you would, of course you would great to
have you both in the studio, Paul. I hope you
have some real success with what's going on in Thornton.
I think Wellingtonians feel for you. I think anybody that's
driven through Thornton lately feels for you. I think that
they've done. What Wellington City Council has done to Thornton
is a disgrace and very very sad. But trust me,
(31:07):
it's coming to a street by by you anywhere. It's
going to happen. You're not You're going to be first
careful for the ring, but it's going to happen to
other people. I need to bake it, keep up the
good work and potty do it. I haven't been out
for a while, but I must go out and have
a love look around. Yeah, I'm going to go out
and have a look. I saw it, I saw the
I said that'd be great. I could open a great
cafe out there.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
So I looked love to have it.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, never thought about it. So there you go. And
now I will go out. Not this afternoon. I want
to get some sleep this afternoon after a sleepless night
last night. But I will go out the next couple
of days and have a look. Thank you both for
joining us on the show this morning. Great to have
you here.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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