Chris Bishop: Housing Minister on new legislation allowing demolition of the Gordon Wilson flats

A social housing block that has sat empty in central Wellington for more than a decade will soon lose its heritage status - and there's hopes it could be demolished this side of Christmas. 

The Gordon Wilson flats on The Terrace have sat empty since 2012, with Victoria University buying the land in 2014. But the buildings held heritage status, making permission to demolish the buildings difficult to acquire. 

But now the government will progress legislation to remove the flats' heritage status, allowing demolition.

“The amendment will remove the flats’ protected heritage status and will make its demolition a permitted activity under the RMA. This means the building can finally be demolished, without a resource consent,“ Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. 

He joined Nick Mills to discuss the decision.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said, b.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Joining us now is Housing Minister christ How you doing?
Good morning?

Speaker 3 (00:18):
How are you coming well? How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
You're talking to two people at once, You're trying to
do two things at once.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
I just ducked out of a meeting of my apologies,
I know, no.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Good on you firstly, congratulations. I mean this is I think,
as a welling Tony in a great move. We were
a little bit disappointed when you didn't do it originally.
Now you have done it, well done.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Thank you. Yeah, I mean I was as frustrated as anyone,
as I think people remember from the time. I mean,
basically it's complicated, but the Council tried to delist it
and legally I couldn't agree to it for a variety
of reasons. It's not worth going into. But basically we've
and I said we'd find a solution and we've now
found one, which is basically Parliament's going to directly legislate
to allow that to demolish the Gordon Wilson Flats. It's

(01:01):
a bit ridiculous, to be honest, that Parliament has to
legislate to do it. But it's you know, I think
a pragmatic step forward. You know, the Council wants them gone.
VIC wants the heritage gone. The people at Wellington, I think,
overwhelmingly want these things demolished and so we're going to
let that go on and do it.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
So how does it work now, I mean legislation? How
long are we waiting for that? You know? How long
will it happen till we see it? Actually bulldozers there?

Speaker 3 (01:27):
So the bill, so we're moving an amendment to a
bill that's already before Parliament. It's just come back from
Select Committee, so it'll get its second reading in the
next month or so and then it will be into
law by the end of July, so the next six
weeks or so, and then basically once it's law, VIC
will be able to go and demolish it basically straight away.

(01:47):
And my understanding as they're already working on the plans
for that. So the effect of the law is to
delist it from the Wellington District Plan, which means it's
no longer heritage listed, which is the thing that's been
stopping at all these years, and then also make it
a permitted activity for VIC to demolish it, so they
won't need a resource consent to demolish and it won't
be heritage listed. They can just get on and do it.

(02:08):
So ultimately it's over the vic. But you know, they
seem pretty keen. So you may see you may see
some diggers and you may see a demo, you know,
the side of Christmas.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Oh wow, I own a panic. Wellington City Council has
come out hard saying it should have been restored, and
she thinks it's part of our history. What do you
say to people. I mean, it's not what I think,
But what do you say to people that think that way?

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Well, the interesting thing is the people who say all
of these things are never the people who actually own
the building. So people who say, you know, we need
to preserve our heritage, ninety nine percent of the time
they are saying that in relation to buildings that they
themselves don't own. So they are imposing extra cost on
people for things that they don't own. So the reality

(02:52):
is saying that it needs to be restored. As a view,
We've had that view for fifteen years. No one can
make it work economically to restore it. It's just too difficult.
It's it's to crepit. It's an eyesore, it's earthquake throne.
It's filled with this best off. That's the reason why
everyone had to move out of the social housing back
in twenty eleven twenty twelve. VIC now owns it. They've

(03:13):
had two different attempts to delist it and actually demolish
it and put a new student accommodation up there. They've
failed twice legally because of the heritage listing. The reality
is if it could be restored, it would be it can't.
So what are we going to do just sit there
looking at it for the next twenty years and say, oh,
this would be great if we could. You know, I'll well,
it be good if someone could restore. I mean, I

(03:33):
love heritage as much as the next person. And it's
really you know, when you see a heritage building that's
restored and people drop some money on it, it's fantastic. But
not everything works economically. And my point to I owner
would be, you know, seriously, respectfully, this is progress for Wilington.
You know those things are in I saw. Nothing is
going to change unless we actually change the law, and

(03:53):
that's what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Tell me, what's going to happen to its sister building,
the one you know dright behind Willis Street there, you know,
the one I think it's McDonald Crescent straight be've.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Hadn't the Dickson Street flats?

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Sorry, yes, yeah, the Dickson Street flat. Yeah, that's what
you're talking about it because they're also designed by Gordon.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Wilson, So the same same, same sort of thing, aren't
they And they're empty now and with.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Very similar Yeah. So that's owned by kying Aura currently
and they've removed everyone so it's very similar. So both
earthquake prone, you know, very expensive to upgrade. Kying Aura
moved everyone out of there back in twenty twenty one,
twenty two twenty around about them. So that's been sitting there.

(04:33):
Kying Aura is looking at exactly what it does with
that site right now, but it is in a very
similar situation to the Gordon Wilson You're right, Could it
be pulled down?

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Could you could? Would you be able to sign that
off to and get it pulled down straightaway as well?

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Potentially potentially in the future. I mean one of the
things we're doing is a lot so we're taking direct
action on the Gordon Wilson Flat and you know, literally
Parliament is going to delist them through through a law change.
But the other thing that the law change does is
make it easier to delist other heritage buildings, so the
Dickson Street flats and a whole range of other buildings

(05:09):
that people are keen to delist that will become easier
as a result of this law change as well. So
again it's complicated, but the council will be able to
go through an easier process to delist them from their
district plan. And you know, I already had indications from
a couple of councilors that they're they're ten to get
started on that. You know they can.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
It's that horrible old petrol drum or whatever water drum
out of Murma. That's one of those ones too that
can probably be put in there as well.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
That is a specific one that a councilor has already
mentioned to me this morning. They all be moving to
delist from the plan once once our law changes take effect,
which will be at the end of July. So things
are actually happening quite quickly now, which is really good.
We're just cracking on and getting on with it because
Wellington can't wait I'm sick of a situation and we
just need to crack.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
On one hundred percent with you, one hundred percent. Tell
me how scrutiny week you competent of it?

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Oh? No, I enjoyed scrutiny week. I mean I I
just said ninety minutes talking about how then at the
Social Services Committee and you know we've got we've got
a lot of things, good things happening in housing. So
you know, I enjoy the back cord.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Nay, you don't, don't tell me.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
You do, you don't do? I enjoy I enjoy it
because ultimately, ultimately the reason you get into politics, right
is to do things and to explain what you're doing
and to try and make a difference and have a
debate about things. And that's what that's what I just wandering.
So I enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Okay, No, no, No, there's been a bit of chat
about some labor and peace swearing under their breath. It
wasn't it you, was it?

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Oh? I saw that. No, it wasn't it me. I
don't know how it was that. No, I saw that. No,
it wasn't it me.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
No.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
No, We've had a very very jovial Select Committee exchange
this morning. It was all good.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
I thought it was. I thought it might have been
Ginny Anderson having a crack at you. That's what I
thought originally.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
When you know, well, you could be forgiven for thinking that,
but no, not not on this occasion.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Thank you very much for joining us on the show
this morning. Thank you very much for doing what you're doing.
I think it's an amazing decision. I think I'm really
pleased that it's happening. Now. We just need to crack
on and get some more things there. Can you can
you take over the Golden Mile and soap that too,
sort that out. That'll be good. Thanks. Leave that with you,
leave that, leave that with you. Take it easy. You

(07:15):
have a good one. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
Appreciate your chest.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Chris Bishop there housing minister. Yeah, I just slipped the
old Golden Mile one and there give him a chance.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
For more From Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.