September 18, 2025 • 31 mins
Nick Mills wrapped up the week with BRG senior consultant and Chris Luxon's former chief press secretary Hamish Rutherford, and former NZ Herald senior reporter Georgina Campbell.
They discussed the fallout from the 0.9% GDP drop, the upcoming Wellington Local Body Elections, amalgamation and what should happen with the City to Sea Bridge.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said, b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We've got a couple of really special guests and for Friday,
base off. I kind of really liked this idea. A
couple of scribes, a couple of well known, respected scribes.
People have written stuff that people don't want to read.
People have written stuff that people do want to read.
Hamus Rudford. He is a BRG senior consultant now in
former press secretary to Christopher Luxan. Good morning Age, Good
(00:36):
morning Nock. How are you very well? Thanks for having
me back. Nice to have you here, lovely to have
you on the show. And former New Zealand Herald journalist
colleague of mine. Can I call you a colleague? Yeah,
definitely a colleague of mine. Georgina Campbell. She was on
the show, on this very show from the start to
the fourth year for four years.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah, it's great to be back.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
And I feel like the old gang's back to get
that because we are all kind of former colleagues.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
The old times. Only one of us has been yelled
at by a Hamish So oh it wasn't me. Bring
piety Becker. Let's start. Let's start the knives have been
out for Christopher Luxin and Nikola Willis over the zero
point nine GDP drop in the Dune Quarter. Now, Hamish,
(01:22):
I want to start with you. Nobody, nobody predicted zero
point nine. Even the most pessimistic was saying zero point five.
What would be going on in the behavior right now?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (01:34):
Look, it's on one level, it's easy to talk about
how this is all stuff that happened months and months ago,
and it's basically confirmation that a time in the year
that we thought was really difficult was even more difficult
than we realized. There's no doubt that this puts strain
in the beehive because they're doing everything they can to
talk up the recovery, get the economy going, talking about
(01:54):
all the stuff that they're trying to do. Yesterday there
was an announcement about a new housing development being fast tracked,
bringing sort of activity into fruition quicker, and then suddenly
you're absolutely grabbed by terrible economic news from earlier in
the year. It is worth saying, though, that as you're
absolutely right, no one predicted it. It was worse than people realized.
(02:16):
If the Reserve Bank had known how bad it was,
back then interest rates would now be lower, and so
in a funny way, for households, it's kind of the
outlook is for lower interest rates, and that means more
money in the pockets of people who have mortgages, which
is you know, many hundreds of thousands of households. Undoubtedly,
it's a difficult couple of days for the government. It
(02:37):
distracts from all of the other stuff that they'd rather
be talking about RM A Reform fast track, you know,
all the activity, and it just you know, it means
it's all anyone's talking about.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Georgiana Campbell. I think it's more serious than that. I
think it's like a bang on the door saying let
us in.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
I think it is true, and I think the biggest
problem for the government is the degree to which they
have hinged. This can pain on turning the economy around,
getting us back on track. Announcing this year that we're
going for growth, and the exact opposite has happened. And
I do have to defer to the New Zealand Herald
political political editor Thomas Coglan here. He had the most
(03:21):
glorious line in his columnies today and I'll read it
out to you. But If the economics are bad, the
politics are even worse. We can now inter Prime Minister
Christopher Luxen's Year of Growth alongside Dame Desindra Dune's Year
of Delivery in the mausoleum of scene setting political clangers,
and I just think that absolutely summarizes my feeling yesterday.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I sort of, I.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Don't know, like I sort of was like, oh, seriously,
you know, like we're told to survive until twenty five.
We get to twenty five, and it's just so tough,
and I want to sort of try and be optimistic
and hang in there and put my head down and
work hard, and then you get a result like this,
and it's like it feels there is an element it
feels like the country is going down, and there's an.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Element of h where he's still sitting in the beehive,
isn't it because he's not saying that, Look.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
There's there's no doubt. Then you're absolutely right. The government
they have made everything about their ability to get the
economy going, and there's no doubt that this is a
real sort of like feeling like a knife to the
stomach in that sort of narrative. The fact is, over time,
interest rates start to move through the economy and the
activity will happen again. They will be judged on whether
(04:38):
they can get the economy moving again by the end
next year. I think they will have.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Do you think this could be almost a game? Because
you know, we had a lovely text during the political
hour of someone saying, hey, you know, when we read
the results out there, the next three months are no better.
I'm struggling, like hell. I mean, what happens is the
next one is down. I'll come to you both on this.
The next one's down again, but the following ones a
little bit up? Will we will we say it's okay
(05:04):
at the poling booth.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
I mean, I don't think many people today go, you know,
my life has materially changed because the GDP number was
higher or lower. What people ultimately feel, how people think
about their own fortune, how much money they've got in
their pocket, whether they can pay their bills. Inflation is
now materially lower. I mean, there's this sort of hangover.
(05:26):
The extremely high period of inflation that we had over
the last three years has eaten into people's purchasing power.
That's why people are feeling so grumpy. The proof will
be in the potting next year. I don't think people
are going to I don't think people are going to
go to the voting, going to the polls next year
and go, oh goodness me. I was going to vote
for National again. But there was a negative point nine
in the second quarter of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
No, yeah, I agree with that. But we're looking for
security and we're looking for that bright light, aren't.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
We, George, Yeah, we are.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
I do think though, to a degree, it's about the vibe.
I don't think people are going to you know, like
have the GDP figures for the past few times with
them they're voting. It's about do they feel confident, like
enough to invest, to spend their money to do things,
and they don't and they don't now. I think there
is still time for that to turn around.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yes, okay, this is it's a clanger. I'll start with you, George,
H can think about this for a second. Is Nikola
Willis's job safe?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yes, I think it is.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
I have no doubt. I have no doubt. You know,
the Prime Minister was absolutely down and quiver I was
talking to people last night. Job I think so, I don't,
I don't really see. I mean it's not like people
plotting would come and talk to me about it. But
but no, I don't think there's a it doesn't I
didn't get the sense there's always the excitement around this
stuff that there's no no doubt this is a difficult
period for the economy and for the government. But no,
(06:50):
I think they're pretty they'll stick to the plan and
it'll work or it won't.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
George, I'm looking at you.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Oh No, I think anything other than what Hamish has
just said would be a knee jerk reaction. There's a
lot of water to go under the bridge yet, so
jury's still out.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I'm just trying to work out in the scale, let's
give it make it a little bit easier for our
listeners on a scale of one to ten, for people
that don't know the ins and outs of the world
that we that you guys are living in. On a
scale of one to ten, that zero point nine. Where
does it sit, George.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I'll probably defer to Hamish on this experience.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
I mean, I'm not sure. I'm not sure exactly this
tells people. It's as bad as people feel, and it's
probably a bit of a dense So.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Is it a five out of ten for the government
or is it a six out of ten? As how
serious it ish?
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Oh, this is like a big big you know. All
they want to be talking about is their attempts to
get activity happening. But we're talking now about how bad
things were in April because they were they were worse
than expected. Like this, This is a tough couple of days.
But I don't think you know, there's a lot coming
at the government that they I believe they'll see through
it and they'll say, look, you next week, we won't
(08:02):
be thinking about this and they'll be judged on what
happens next to you.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Let's talk about the Wellington Council elections. You know that, George,
you'll be interested and this is this is your bread
and butter, this is what you made your living on.
We're only three weeks and one day from finding out
who's sixty Tory Farno as the Wellington mayor. Have you
sp spoken to Tory lately?
Speaker 4 (08:25):
No, No, I haven't. I've sort of just been head
down for six months and getting ready to head off
to Europe tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So you were speaking to her every couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
You were like, you know, it was my job to
speak to her neck What do you what do.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
You make of the race so far? I mean you
you were so involved in local politics that you know
was part of your world. Stepping out looking back in
what have you seen?
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Well, it's not exactly inspiring, is it. I was at
the hairdresser the other day and I said to her.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I was like, oh, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
You following local body elections. You know, do you think
Andrew Little was the front runner for the mayoral team?
Do you know what she said back to me, She's like,
who's Andrew Little? And I thought that was a really
good summary of the vibe and level of interest. And look,
I do think this is a race between Andrew Dottele,
Ray Chung, and Carl Tiffanbucker. So i'll give you my
(09:20):
view on the three of them, if you like. Carl
is running in the eastern ward, which is my ward.
There are actually no incumbents standing out there again, so
I think he's got a really good shot of being
a counselor. I don't think he will secure the mayoraltyt
that's not a bad thing, I think because his inexperience
in politics is a problem. He keeps sort of saying,
(09:41):
and I'm paraphrasing, but like, oh, I'm not a politician
and I'm not in it for the politics and I'm
just here for Wellington. That really annoys me. Local government
is politics, Like we literally.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Vote for them.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
They're spending our money on our behalf and I think
actually you need to be a master of politics to
be the mayor because you don't get voted in with
a majority and for your mandates you have to build
that around the table and guess.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
What that is? That's politics.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Ray very good message with the zero rates increases because
people are really hurting. It's a completely unrealistic message to
have zero rates increases, but it might just be enough
of an incentive to at least have that goal for
people to vote for him. He does have a tendency
to go on tangents, which is problematic, and there's that
herrendous email that he sent about Tory Farno. But I
(10:31):
wonder if that came out too early in the campaign.
Has that faded from people's minds so they now are
more just focused on the rates question. Potentially Andrew Little
when he launched his campaign talking about Kendalapol and Bigonia House,
I was like, seriously, like, I was so underwhelmed. It's
like those are not the big issues for Wellington, and
pleased that he has changed his messaging during the more
(10:53):
recent debates and he's also talking about downward pressure on rates.
In summary, never rule anything out because Wellington is a
wild card and if you look back on the past
two elections, you had Andy Foster beating Justine Aster, Tory
Fanno beating Paul Eagle. Neither of those things were predicted.
So I think, don't rule anything or anyone out.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Thanks for that rant.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
That was pretty good, as I wouldn't want to have
tried to go after that.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
I'm just going to go to you. I'm I'm not
sure what really to add to that, apart from apart
from I think basically it's been a bit of a
tultuous three years for the council, and so I suspect
that Andrew Little will form enough of an alliance to
get over the line.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I think, people, people, what do you think he'll bring?
I mean, what do you think that that it will
do for you?
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Just as your city's He's very experienced, he is, he's
got a tremendous public profile.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
He you know, his history.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
He has a history as a as a as obviously
a union leader, and some people say, you know, is
that really what Wellington need. But some of the business
leaders that I've spoken to who dealt with him as
a business leader, said, you could make a deal with
the guy, and once he made a deal, you had
a deal. And so so hopefully he's a guy that
could build some degree of consensus around the council to
(12:12):
get his programmed through because I think, as we've seen
with Tory, she didn't have the support of the bulk
of the council and so it was very hard to
know what was going to happen, and she didn't have
the numbers. Hopefully Andrew whatever he sort of brings, at
least he can bring some cohesion to the council if
indeed he wants.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
And he will have the numbers because it'll always be
I'm looking at you, George when I say this, I mean,
you know it's always going to be a left wing,
left leaning council table.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah, I think it is, and Wellington is a left
leaning city. But I think there are kind of two
things that could happen. It could be a real revolt
against the mayoralty of Tory Farno and the rates increases
that we've seen with that, and that's associated was left
leaning candidates having the majority around the council table or
(13:02):
we you know could see you know, like wanting to
continue with getting things getting things done the Greens with
the Greens in a continuation of that of Wellington's views.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And that's what's going to happen. Really, I mean, I
can't see it any other way. I just wanted to
quickly ask you because when you were, when you were
giving us that amazing information which I couldn't have done
it better with a computer in front of me, did
you actually ever believe Tory could have been mayor last
like this time of the last election you were, that
(13:42):
was your thing. You were writing about it every day.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, not to begin with, but I think towards the
end of the king you did. Yeah, I think you did.
There was a definite vibe shift, like Paul Eagle just
wasn't quite heading it. I think one of the strengths
of Tory's campaign was all of those posters that she
had on like the street level, and she was energetic,
like she she did bring some great energy, which is
(14:08):
really lacking in this campaign. But also do people want
that if they just want somebody who's upbeat and you know,
like enjoys the hospitality scene and is like keen for
Wellington to thrive when Wellington is in direstrates.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You know, well, that's what I get criticized for because
I keep saying Andrew Little's boring and I want excitement.
Everyone says, well, you've had excitement, what about trying to
get you know? And I agree with you. I've got
to say that when I speak to people about doing
business with Andrew Little, they say, if you shake his
hand and you look him in the eye, you know
that it's a done deal. And that's probably what we
(14:44):
kind of want in Wellington for the next three years.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
I think it's a there's a sense. I think he
think his slogan a serious leadership. I think that the
Wellington City Council does not have a good reputation. Homeowners
are really feeling the pain of the rates that increases.
I've got friends in Auckland who are embarrassed at how
our household rates are. I think people just want, you know,
someone serious.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
What about the regions? Anyone got anything that any upsets
in the regions because I think it's Anita Baker and Porrha.
I think it's Ken Laban and Hut City, and I
think it's Gubby and Wayne Guppy and Upper Hut.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I'm not so sure about Lower Harsh.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I actually think that's the race to watch in terms
of it being quite close. I think the two front
runners are King Laban and Brady Dryer, who is a
current city counselor. I actually can't pick which way that's
going to go. I think it's going to be close.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Oh wow, I thought that was head. I thought just
the profile would have got a over.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Yeah, but Brady also has like a big profile out there,
like he's very prominent on social media, and he's obviously
been an existing counselor. So yeah, I think that could
be quite a close one.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Actually got anything on the regions.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
Look, I'll be honest, I haven't been haven't been particularly,
but name recognition is absolutely crucial, and so.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, well it's going to be Wayne Guppy, going to
be Anita Baker, and well I've looking at George. I'm
never ever going to argue Georgina Campbell when it comes
to politics, because that's her thing. She knows that local
politics especially. I've got to quickly ask you on this one, Hamus,
because I know that when we talked off air, you
had a couple of comments to make about it. Political
(16:23):
comment commentator doctor Bryce Edwards reckons we see far more
strikes under a national government than a labor one, as
the unions don't want to upset their mates on the
left when they are in power. Now you do you agree.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
With that or no?
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Well, look, I don't know. I read the story looking
for anything that looked like a fact related to the
number of strikes, and I seem to recall as a
journalist when Labor came in there were stats floating around. Certainly,
I think there's more. In fact, I'll give you an anecdote.
When I was based in the press gallery about a
decade to go into the Key government. I know for
a fact that when the public servants and I mean
the sort of the bureaucratic public servants were going on strike,
(17:01):
the Prime Minister's office made sure that the TV cameras
knew when the strikes were happening, so they could get
cameras out saying look, we're steering the unions down. I
think under Labor that you know, the pain of their
people protesting hurts the government a bit more. There's no
doubt at the moment, the you know, the teachers and
the doctors that engender's quite a lot of public sympathy
(17:23):
and puts that puts you know, puts pressure on the government.
But I don't believe. I'm certainly not a one.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
We don't believe the numbers are skewed it at all.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
I think there are more strikes under Labour because Labour's
more likely to move. But but I don't have stats
in front of me. Neither frankly, neither does Bryce.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
That's saying I agree with you, George, You're not in
your head there. What do you think?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Well, I agree with Hamish because I read Bryce's piece
and I was like, where are the figures? So I
went to try and find the figures and actually figured
this out. And Simon Bridges made the claim in twenty
eighteen when he was leader of the National Party that
in the nine months of that Labor government at the time,
there had been more industrial election than under the previous
(18:08):
nine years of the National government. Now journalists looked into
this and I read their reports and the data was
all over the place. There is essentially no good data
for this. MB does not publish an exhaustive list. Some
data counts strike action taken only some data sets count
strike action taken and intended strike action. So I think
(18:29):
there's an argument to be made on both sides. I
can understand Bryce's point that unions could potentially get pressured
from their allies not to damage labor led governments by striking. However,
I think the argument can also be made that nurses
and public servants and teachers strike under a labor government
because they believe they have a better chance of being heard. So, yeah,
(18:49):
no good numbers.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Really great, that's great to actually be able to exactly
what Friday Faces offers about having people different people's opinions
on a story. Transmission Gully, George, Now I've got to
start with you on this because this is your baby.
How many stories over four years did we do on
transmission Gully. Well, financially, it's out now that it's actually
worth one hundred and seventy three seventy three million dollars
(19:13):
a year per year to us. No deaths, I mean,
it's been apart from the maintenance side of it's been
one hell of a success, hasn't it.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Look, I think the safety stats and the resilience that
that road brings is fantastic. And I listened to you
on the radio this morning, Neck when you said that
this is a road that is delivering, But I just
would remind people it's actually a road that has not
yet been delivered. Okay, Like, let's just remember that this
(19:45):
was meant to be an eight hundred and fifty million
dollar road. It's now costing one point twenty five billion dollars.
It's not technically finished yet. They are literally about to
rip it back up because they did not do the
job properly to begin with.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
So you know, Hamis, I keep throwing you a curveboard,
which she's got facts like that. That's her baby. I mean,
she will lived on it for four years, you know.
I mean, no one could argue, ever argue Transmission Gully
with Georgina.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
No, no, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not arguing it.
But but you know, I used the road from time
to time. A month or so, guy, I used the
old road just to see what it's like. And it's
it's amazing how how quickly you get used to something new,
and when you drive the old road through pacockerrikey, Like,
you can't imagine all of Wellington's northern traffic going going
(20:33):
going along that road and how people managed and all
the long queues that used to form and you know,
an hour or two hours or more, you know, with
traffic crawling, and it's it's turned out, notwithstanding all of
Georgina's criticisms and the problems that they've had and the
cost overruns. But the fact is now Wellington couldn't really
imagine itself without it.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
H's next, what what do we need to see in
Wantington next? I'll come to you, to George, because I
can see you.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Oh goodness, question, good, good goodness?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Me.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
I think I mean we need we need to like
we have the count election coming through, hopefully that that
provides the city with a bit more more direction.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, George, if you got one that you think we
need to work on, I think my Victoria Tunnels for me. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
In terms of infrastructure projects, the second Mount Victoria Tunnel.
The government did say that there would be a spade
in the ground to booth within their first term. So
I will be watching that with interest because there has
been a bit of a hold up while they went
and investigated the Long Tunnel, which had already been investigated
only a few years prior and was found to be
very expensive. Anyway, I'm not sure about Utucky to north
(21:40):
of Livin, which I know is going ahead, and you know.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Well, I'm not sure it's going to be.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
More than two billion dollars to build their road.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
That is so much money, and it's double, it's more
than double what it was originally costed to be. And
when you have projects like Patoni to Grenada, second Mount
Victoria Tunnel sitting around, I'm just not sure that that's
the best use.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I'm going to According to a text, they are going
to toll it.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah, and that's good. It should be, it should be told.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
But it's going to take a long time to get
to a billion dollars worth of tolling.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
City.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
You see bridge Hamous What do you think? I mean,
it's been a bit of a screw up. The signs
were up, the builders were coming in, it was going
to be pulled down. Then suddenly, all of a sudden
it's not going to be and now they're starting to
clean it up and do it up.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Yeah, well, personally I find it quite an ugly You know,
piece of construction, but it's incredibly practical in terms of
getting from the city down onto the waterfront. So whatever
they end up finally doing, I hope there is still
some sort of crossing that doesn't doesn't doesn't take across
the road, slow down the highway even more. But but
but I have no affection for it as a as
(22:56):
a piece of art.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
But have you walked across and thought, you know, once
halfway across you look and you see the city and
then you see the CBD and you say, you can
you know, I have a have your sam Often you
see people having the sand their lunch up here. No,
I mean, apart from them being ugly, it's useful.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
I walk across it. I have walked across it many times,
and I think it's in a great spot. And you're
absolutely right, and it's just it's practical. When it's when
it was integrated to the Civic Square, it was a
great part of Wellington, right.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Georgina Campbell, you are looking at me with that look
that I have seen many times before. Come on, come on.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
The thing that frustrates me about this bridge is that
the last minute change of heart by the council is
because it wants to wait until the recommendations of the
government's Seismic Review and Earthquake Prome Building Review is finished
and released at the end of this month, because Council
offices have become aware that there are new engineering standards
(23:56):
to be released as part of that review, which might
mean that the bridge is no longer considered a risk. Well,
they should have been reading the New Zealand Herald in
June last.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Year when or listening to the show with me and
you've talked about it, when you told us about.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
It, and you know I wrote that the review will
consider scrapping the new building standard ratings, which engineers used
to decide where the structures of earthquake prone. Like, it
has been clear for some time that this review is
a major shakeup of that system. So for the Council
to all of a sudden be like, oh no, no,
we should wait until that happens, it's like, you guys
(24:32):
should have known a lot earlier than that. I My
biggest concern with this bridge is that the commentary that
in a big earthquake, and it's when it happens, not if,
because it's going to happen, that it collapses onto the
keys that arterial roots and prevents emergency services from getting
(24:54):
through the hospital. Now the council has to be seriously
sure that that is not going to happen, or there's
not a significant risk of that happening, because that would
be completely unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Well, you can get a build and clean it out
pretty quickly, right talking about councils Lower Heart, Upper Heart,
Potty Wellington amalgamation Haymus Rudtherford, I just with what's going
on in Auckland. Some say successfully, some say not so successfully.
I'm on the success side. I think it's a really
(25:26):
good idea.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
I agree. I mean it's probably easy for people who
live in Wellington, and I can see why if you
are an upper hut you think, well, this is code
for a loss of control into Wellington City. So perhaps
there'd be a bit of skepticism. But just from the
efficiency point of view, getting the city thinking of itself
in a region as a region and operating as a
region personally, I think it's a good idea.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yea, and events and trying to get more things that
we've got the whole all working together instead of working separately.
I mean, doesn't that make perfect sense to me?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It does.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
But then chances are if there are more events, if
we bring more events, and they're going to be in
Wellington City in all likelihood, So I can see why
perhaps people in Upper Heart might not view with you
out the same way.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
If you own Brewtown, you wouldn't think so, because there's
be a lot of stuff that could go out there.
They could amalg George, what are your thoughts? I mean,
this is your bread and butter, local councils. What do
you think?
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yeah, I think the amalgamation conversation is really heating up,
but interestingly it's not kind of hitting mainstream channels, and
I think it should be. There are all these little
bread crumbs that are littered across what government ministers are saying,
Like the Prime Minister has said that there are too
many layers of government when you know it is open
to scrapping regional councils. You know, Chris Bishop has stopped
(26:38):
councils working on district and regional plans while he's working
on a massive overhaul of the RIMA, you know, which
would kind of feeds into the Three Waters reform. Like
things are being taken off councils and even Chris Hipkins
is kind of you did that interview with him. He's
up for amalgamation in Wellington, and I just think with
(27:01):
there's double digit rates increases in that compounding effect, like
are in a financially unsustainable position?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And how do you think? I mean, Hot City and
Pottator have got a referendum question and they're voting. How
do you reckon they're going to go? What's your gut
telling you on that?
Speaker 4 (27:19):
I actually don't know because I don't think people, well,
people haven't been asked about this in a few years.
The questions are sort of quite open ended. They're a
bit different and it's sort of asking people, are you
open to us exploring amalgamation. But I think those questions
are not so much of a definitive answer. They're non
binding referendums. I think it's more about, you know, front
(27:42):
footing this inevitable.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Conversation the Friday face of.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
The come on Hei mish Rudiford, give us your hots
and not well.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
They're both both related to the hots with the South
African rugby fans, both last week at the stadium and
I was at Eden Park the week before. Both games.
At least I think a third of the crowd with
South Afric and absolutely wonderfully behaved, including in Wellington where
they absolutely whipped us in the second half. And you
know they very well behaved the Knots, the All Blacks
(28:15):
in the second half at Wellington. I've seen the All
Black slows before, but I've never seen anything like that.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Can I just quickly ask you before we go to George.
You've got plenty of little bit of time. I just
want to ask you where you thought was the better
watching your better occasion, better place to go and watch
Eden Park or Sky Stadium in Monning.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
I'm sorry to say it, but it's clearly Eden Park.
It's a better stadium really in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yes, and you share my view a little bit that
we might have problems getting the big events here.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
I absolutely think we will when the Cross Church Stadium
opens and we have two covered stadiums. Wellington probably have
might have some real difficulty.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
There. You go, Georgina Campbell, give us your hots and
knots well.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
I decided to keep mine local to Mirramar Peninsula, which
is where I live. My hot is literally hot. There
is a beautiful sauna at Wuser Bay. It's called Scenic
saunas that I have become addicted to, and it means
that you can swim in the sea all year round.
It's a wood fire sauna, so you go in like
(29:13):
you get hot and come out and do your cold
plunge in the sea. It is so exhilarating And if
you've fallen out of love with Wellington, go there have
a sauna session on a nice day. I did it
on Tuesday and that beautiful well worse the bay is a.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Big place whereabouts it by the yacht club or is.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
It they're close close to the yacht club, like just
behind the sea sand dunes there and the water was
crystal clear, Like I just thought, gosh, I live in
a beautiful place. That's my Hotmy not is the dog
poo on Merma Peninsula, Like I don't know what it
is with the streech from Sea Tune to Scorching Bay,
(29:53):
which is like quite an affluent area of Wellington, and
there is a dog poop for Africa, Like I have
never seen anything like it in any other suburbs that
I've ever lived in. But they just don't people don't
clean up after the dogs.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
That is terrible. You got a dog age. I do
do you look clean up after as you go? I
certainly do ye, Yeah, so do I When I did
have a dog.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Like you seriously have to kind of keep your eyes
on the pavement and not at the beautiful scenery in
case you step in it.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
We moth have to do it an hour on it
next week. Does your dog do what it shouldn't do
where it shouldn't do it? And do you not pick
it up?
Speaker 5 (30:27):
Unfortunately, George will be in Europe.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Hey, wonderful to see you. Both. Both ex colleagues are
bide and both people that I classify as friends are lovely, lovely,
greatest people in the world. Georgina Campbell is about to
have a little bit of a holiday.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yes, I'm flying out tomorrow. Very exciting.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, so when you get back we must catch up. Hey,
miss Rudford. Always good to see you. Keep up the
good work and lovely, lovely to see you both have
a great, great weekend and a great safe trip to
Europe or.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Last snag pleasure.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast. iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said, b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We've got a couple of really special guests and for Friday,
base off. I kind of really liked this idea. A
couple of scribes, a couple of well known, respected scribes.
People have written stuff that people don't want to read.
People have written stuff that people do want to read.
Hamus Rudford. He is a BRG senior consultant now in
former press secretary to Christopher Luxan. Good morning Age, Good
(00:36):
morning Nock. How are you very well? Thanks for having
me back. Nice to have you here, lovely to have
you on the show. And former New Zealand Herald journalist
colleague of mine. Can I call you a colleague? Yeah,
definitely a colleague of mine. Georgina Campbell. She was on
the show, on this very show from the start to
the fourth year for four years.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah, it's great to be back.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
And I feel like the old gang's back to get
that because we are all kind of former colleagues.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
The old times. Only one of us has been yelled
at by a Hamish So oh it wasn't me. Bring
piety Becker. Let's start. Let's start the knives have been
out for Christopher Luxin and Nikola Willis over the zero
point nine GDP drop in the Dune Quarter. Now, Hamish,
(01:22):
I want to start with you. Nobody, nobody predicted zero
point nine. Even the most pessimistic was saying zero point five.
What would be going on in the behavior right now?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (01:34):
Look, it's on one level, it's easy to talk about
how this is all stuff that happened months and months ago,
and it's basically confirmation that a time in the year
that we thought was really difficult was even more difficult
than we realized. There's no doubt that this puts strain
in the beehive because they're doing everything they can to
talk up the recovery, get the economy going, talking about
(01:54):
all the stuff that they're trying to do. Yesterday there
was an announcement about a new housing development being fast tracked,
bringing sort of activity into fruition quicker, and then suddenly
you're absolutely grabbed by terrible economic news from earlier in
the year. It is worth saying, though, that as you're
absolutely right, no one predicted it. It was worse than people realized.
(02:16):
If the Reserve Bank had known how bad it was,
back then interest rates would now be lower, and so
in a funny way, for households, it's kind of the
outlook is for lower interest rates, and that means more
money in the pockets of people who have mortgages, which
is you know, many hundreds of thousands of households. Undoubtedly,
it's a difficult couple of days for the government. It
(02:37):
distracts from all of the other stuff that they'd rather
be talking about RM A Reform fast track, you know,
all the activity, and it just you know, it means
it's all anyone's talking about.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Georgiana Campbell. I think it's more serious than that. I
think it's like a bang on the door saying let
us in.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
I think it is true, and I think the biggest
problem for the government is the degree to which they
have hinged. This can pain on turning the economy around,
getting us back on track. Announcing this year that we're
going for growth, and the exact opposite has happened. And
I do have to defer to the New Zealand Herald
political political editor Thomas Coglan here. He had the most
(03:21):
glorious line in his columnies today and I'll read it
out to you. But If the economics are bad, the
politics are even worse. We can now inter Prime Minister
Christopher Luxen's Year of Growth alongside Dame Desindra Dune's Year
of Delivery in the mausoleum of scene setting political clangers,
and I just think that absolutely summarizes my feeling yesterday.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I sort of, I.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Don't know, like I sort of was like, oh, seriously,
you know, like we're told to survive until twenty five.
We get to twenty five, and it's just so tough,
and I want to sort of try and be optimistic
and hang in there and put my head down and
work hard, and then you get a result like this,
and it's like it feels there is an element it
feels like the country is going down, and there's an.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Element of h where he's still sitting in the beehive,
isn't it because he's not saying that, Look.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
There's there's no doubt. Then you're absolutely right. The government
they have made everything about their ability to get the
economy going, and there's no doubt that this is a
real sort of like feeling like a knife to the
stomach in that sort of narrative. The fact is, over time,
interest rates start to move through the economy and the
activity will happen again. They will be judged on whether
(04:38):
they can get the economy moving again by the end
next year. I think they will have.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Do you think this could be almost a game? Because
you know, we had a lovely text during the political
hour of someone saying, hey, you know, when we read
the results out there, the next three months are no better.
I'm struggling, like hell. I mean, what happens is the
next one is down. I'll come to you both on this.
The next one's down again, but the following ones a
little bit up? Will we will we say it's okay
(05:04):
at the poling booth.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
I mean, I don't think many people today go, you know,
my life has materially changed because the GDP number was
higher or lower. What people ultimately feel, how people think
about their own fortune, how much money they've got in
their pocket, whether they can pay their bills. Inflation is
now materially lower. I mean, there's this sort of hangover.
(05:26):
The extremely high period of inflation that we had over
the last three years has eaten into people's purchasing power.
That's why people are feeling so grumpy. The proof will
be in the potting next year. I don't think people
are going to I don't think people are going to
go to the voting, going to the polls next year
and go, oh goodness me. I was going to vote
for National again. But there was a negative point nine
in the second quarter of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
No, yeah, I agree with that. But we're looking for
security and we're looking for that bright light, aren't.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
We, George, Yeah, we are.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
I do think though, to a degree, it's about the vibe.
I don't think people are going to you know, like
have the GDP figures for the past few times with
them they're voting. It's about do they feel confident, like
enough to invest, to spend their money to do things,
and they don't and they don't now. I think there
is still time for that to turn around.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yes, okay, this is it's a clanger. I'll start with you, George,
H can think about this for a second. Is Nikola
Willis's job safe?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yes, I think it is.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
I have no doubt. I have no doubt. You know,
the Prime Minister was absolutely down and quiver I was
talking to people last night. Job I think so, I don't,
I don't really see. I mean it's not like people
plotting would come and talk to me about it. But
but no, I don't think there's a it doesn't I
didn't get the sense there's always the excitement around this
stuff that there's no no doubt this is a difficult
period for the economy and for the government. But no,
(06:50):
I think they're pretty they'll stick to the plan and
it'll work or it won't.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
George, I'm looking at you.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Oh No, I think anything other than what Hamish has
just said would be a knee jerk reaction. There's a
lot of water to go under the bridge yet, so
jury's still out.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I'm just trying to work out in the scale, let's
give it make it a little bit easier for our
listeners on a scale of one to ten, for people
that don't know the ins and outs of the world
that we that you guys are living in. On a
scale of one to ten, that zero point nine. Where
does it sit, George.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I'll probably defer to Hamish on this experience.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
I mean, I'm not sure. I'm not sure exactly this
tells people. It's as bad as people feel, and it's
probably a bit of a dense So.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Is it a five out of ten for the government
or is it a six out of ten? As how
serious it ish?
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Oh, this is like a big big you know. All
they want to be talking about is their attempts to
get activity happening. But we're talking now about how bad
things were in April because they were they were worse
than expected. Like this, This is a tough couple of days.
But I don't think you know, there's a lot coming
at the government that they I believe they'll see through
it and they'll say, look, you next week, we won't
(08:02):
be thinking about this and they'll be judged on what
happens next to you.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Let's talk about the Wellington Council elections. You know that, George,
you'll be interested and this is this is your bread
and butter, this is what you made your living on.
We're only three weeks and one day from finding out
who's sixty Tory Farno as the Wellington mayor. Have you
sp spoken to Tory lately?
Speaker 4 (08:25):
No, No, I haven't. I've sort of just been head
down for six months and getting ready to head off
to Europe tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So you were speaking to her every couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
You were like, you know, it was my job to
speak to her neck What do you what do.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
You make of the race so far? I mean you
you were so involved in local politics that you know
was part of your world. Stepping out looking back in
what have you seen?
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Well, it's not exactly inspiring, is it. I was at
the hairdresser the other day and I said to her.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I was like, oh, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
You following local body elections. You know, do you think
Andrew Little was the front runner for the mayoral team?
Do you know what she said back to me, She's like,
who's Andrew Little? And I thought that was a really
good summary of the vibe and level of interest. And look,
I do think this is a race between Andrew Dottele,
Ray Chung, and Carl Tiffanbucker. So i'll give you my
(09:20):
view on the three of them, if you like. Carl
is running in the eastern ward, which is my ward.
There are actually no incumbents standing out there again, so
I think he's got a really good shot of being
a counselor. I don't think he will secure the mayoraltyt
that's not a bad thing, I think because his inexperience
in politics is a problem. He keeps sort of saying,
(09:41):
and I'm paraphrasing, but like, oh, I'm not a politician
and I'm not in it for the politics and I'm
just here for Wellington. That really annoys me. Local government
is politics, Like we literally.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Vote for them.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
They're spending our money on our behalf and I think
actually you need to be a master of politics to
be the mayor because you don't get voted in with
a majority and for your mandates you have to build
that around the table and guess.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
What that is? That's politics.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Ray very good message with the zero rates increases because
people are really hurting. It's a completely unrealistic message to
have zero rates increases, but it might just be enough
of an incentive to at least have that goal for
people to vote for him. He does have a tendency
to go on tangents, which is problematic, and there's that
herrendous email that he sent about Tory Farno. But I
(10:31):
wonder if that came out too early in the campaign.
Has that faded from people's minds so they now are
more just focused on the rates question. Potentially Andrew Little
when he launched his campaign talking about Kendalapol and Bigonia House,
I was like, seriously, like, I was so underwhelmed. It's
like those are not the big issues for Wellington, and
pleased that he has changed his messaging during the more
(10:53):
recent debates and he's also talking about downward pressure on rates.
In summary, never rule anything out because Wellington is a
wild card and if you look back on the past
two elections, you had Andy Foster beating Justine Aster, Tory
Fanno beating Paul Eagle. Neither of those things were predicted.
So I think, don't rule anything or anyone out.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Thanks for that rant.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
That was pretty good, as I wouldn't want to have
tried to go after that.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
I'm just going to go to you. I'm I'm not
sure what really to add to that, apart from apart
from I think basically it's been a bit of a
tultuous three years for the council, and so I suspect
that Andrew Little will form enough of an alliance to
get over the line.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I think, people, people, what do you think he'll bring?
I mean, what do you think that that it will
do for you?
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Just as your city's He's very experienced, he is, he's
got a tremendous public profile.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
He you know, his history.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
He has a history as a as a as obviously
a union leader, and some people say, you know, is
that really what Wellington need. But some of the business
leaders that I've spoken to who dealt with him as
a business leader, said, you could make a deal with
the guy, and once he made a deal, you had
a deal. And so so hopefully he's a guy that
could build some degree of consensus around the council to
(12:12):
get his programmed through because I think, as we've seen
with Tory, she didn't have the support of the bulk
of the council and so it was very hard to
know what was going to happen, and she didn't have
the numbers. Hopefully Andrew whatever he sort of brings, at
least he can bring some cohesion to the council if
indeed he wants.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
And he will have the numbers because it'll always be
I'm looking at you, George when I say this, I mean,
you know it's always going to be a left wing,
left leaning council table.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah, I think it is, and Wellington is a left
leaning city. But I think there are kind of two
things that could happen. It could be a real revolt
against the mayoralty of Tory Farno and the rates increases
that we've seen with that, and that's associated was left
leaning candidates having the majority around the council table or
(13:02):
we you know could see you know, like wanting to
continue with getting things getting things done the Greens with
the Greens in a continuation of that of Wellington's views.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And that's what's going to happen. Really, I mean, I
can't see it any other way. I just wanted to
quickly ask you because when you were, when you were
giving us that amazing information which I couldn't have done
it better with a computer in front of me, did
you actually ever believe Tory could have been mayor last
like this time of the last election you were, that
(13:42):
was your thing. You were writing about it every day.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, not to begin with, but I think towards the
end of the king you did. Yeah, I think you did.
There was a definite vibe shift, like Paul Eagle just
wasn't quite heading it. I think one of the strengths
of Tory's campaign was all of those posters that she
had on like the street level, and she was energetic,
like she she did bring some great energy, which is
(14:08):
really lacking in this campaign. But also do people want
that if they just want somebody who's upbeat and you know,
like enjoys the hospitality scene and is like keen for
Wellington to thrive when Wellington is in direstrates.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You know, well, that's what I get criticized for because
I keep saying Andrew Little's boring and I want excitement.
Everyone says, well, you've had excitement, what about trying to
get you know? And I agree with you. I've got
to say that when I speak to people about doing
business with Andrew Little, they say, if you shake his
hand and you look him in the eye, you know
that it's a done deal. And that's probably what we
(14:44):
kind of want in Wellington for the next three years.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
I think it's a there's a sense. I think he
think his slogan a serious leadership. I think that the
Wellington City Council does not have a good reputation. Homeowners
are really feeling the pain of the rates that increases.
I've got friends in Auckland who are embarrassed at how
our household rates are. I think people just want, you know,
someone serious.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
What about the regions? Anyone got anything that any upsets
in the regions because I think it's Anita Baker and Porrha.
I think it's Ken Laban and Hut City, and I
think it's Gubby and Wayne Guppy and Upper Hut.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I'm not so sure about Lower Harsh.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I actually think that's the race to watch in terms
of it being quite close. I think the two front
runners are King Laban and Brady Dryer, who is a
current city counselor. I actually can't pick which way that's
going to go. I think it's going to be close.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Oh wow, I thought that was head. I thought just
the profile would have got a over.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Yeah, but Brady also has like a big profile out there,
like he's very prominent on social media, and he's obviously
been an existing counselor. So yeah, I think that could
be quite a close one.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Actually got anything on the regions.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
Look, I'll be honest, I haven't been haven't been particularly,
but name recognition is absolutely crucial, and so.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, well it's going to be Wayne Guppy, going to
be Anita Baker, and well I've looking at George. I'm
never ever going to argue Georgina Campbell when it comes
to politics, because that's her thing. She knows that local
politics especially. I've got to quickly ask you on this one, Hamus,
because I know that when we talked off air, you
had a couple of comments to make about it. Political
(16:23):
comment commentator doctor Bryce Edwards reckons we see far more
strikes under a national government than a labor one, as
the unions don't want to upset their mates on the
left when they are in power. Now you do you agree.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
With that or no?
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Well, look, I don't know. I read the story looking
for anything that looked like a fact related to the
number of strikes, and I seem to recall as a
journalist when Labor came in there were stats floating around. Certainly,
I think there's more. In fact, I'll give you an anecdote.
When I was based in the press gallery about a
decade to go into the Key government. I know for
a fact that when the public servants and I mean
the sort of the bureaucratic public servants were going on strike,
(17:01):
the Prime Minister's office made sure that the TV cameras
knew when the strikes were happening, so they could get
cameras out saying look, we're steering the unions down. I
think under Labor that you know, the pain of their
people protesting hurts the government a bit more. There's no
doubt at the moment, the you know, the teachers and
the doctors that engender's quite a lot of public sympathy
(17:23):
and puts that puts you know, puts pressure on the government.
But I don't believe. I'm certainly not a one.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
We don't believe the numbers are skewed it at all.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
I think there are more strikes under Labour because Labour's
more likely to move. But but I don't have stats
in front of me. Neither frankly, neither does Bryce.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
That's saying I agree with you, George, You're not in
your head there. What do you think?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Well, I agree with Hamish because I read Bryce's piece
and I was like, where are the figures? So I
went to try and find the figures and actually figured
this out. And Simon Bridges made the claim in twenty
eighteen when he was leader of the National Party that
in the nine months of that Labor government at the time,
there had been more industrial election than under the previous
(18:08):
nine years of the National government. Now journalists looked into
this and I read their reports and the data was
all over the place. There is essentially no good data
for this. MB does not publish an exhaustive list. Some
data counts strike action taken only some data sets count
strike action taken and intended strike action. So I think
(18:29):
there's an argument to be made on both sides. I
can understand Bryce's point that unions could potentially get pressured
from their allies not to damage labor led governments by striking. However,
I think the argument can also be made that nurses
and public servants and teachers strike under a labor government
because they believe they have a better chance of being heard. So, yeah,
(18:49):
no good numbers.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Really great, that's great to actually be able to exactly
what Friday Faces offers about having people different people's opinions
on a story. Transmission Gully, George, Now I've got to
start with you on this because this is your baby.
How many stories over four years did we do on
transmission Gully. Well, financially, it's out now that it's actually
worth one hundred and seventy three seventy three million dollars
(19:13):
a year per year to us. No deaths, I mean,
it's been apart from the maintenance side of it's been
one hell of a success, hasn't it.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Look, I think the safety stats and the resilience that
that road brings is fantastic. And I listened to you
on the radio this morning, Neck when you said that
this is a road that is delivering, But I just
would remind people it's actually a road that has not
yet been delivered. Okay, Like, let's just remember that this
(19:45):
was meant to be an eight hundred and fifty million
dollar road. It's now costing one point twenty five billion dollars.
It's not technically finished yet. They are literally about to
rip it back up because they did not do the
job properly to begin with.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
So you know, Hamis, I keep throwing you a curveboard,
which she's got facts like that. That's her baby. I mean,
she will lived on it for four years, you know.
I mean, no one could argue, ever argue Transmission Gully
with Georgina.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
No, no, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not arguing it.
But but you know, I used the road from time
to time. A month or so, guy, I used the
old road just to see what it's like. And it's
it's amazing how how quickly you get used to something new,
and when you drive the old road through pacockerrikey, Like,
you can't imagine all of Wellington's northern traffic going going
(20:33):
going along that road and how people managed and all
the long queues that used to form and you know,
an hour or two hours or more, you know, with
traffic crawling, and it's it's turned out, notwithstanding all of
Georgina's criticisms and the problems that they've had and the
cost overruns. But the fact is now Wellington couldn't really
imagine itself without it.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
H's next, what what do we need to see in
Wantington next? I'll come to you, to George, because I
can see you.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Oh goodness, question, good, good goodness?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Me.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
I think I mean we need we need to like
we have the count election coming through, hopefully that that
provides the city with a bit more more direction.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, George, if you got one that you think we
need to work on, I think my Victoria Tunnels for me. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
In terms of infrastructure projects, the second Mount Victoria Tunnel.
The government did say that there would be a spade
in the ground to booth within their first term. So
I will be watching that with interest because there has
been a bit of a hold up while they went
and investigated the Long Tunnel, which had already been investigated
only a few years prior and was found to be
very expensive. Anyway, I'm not sure about Utucky to north
(21:40):
of Livin, which I know is going ahead, and you know.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Well, I'm not sure it's going to be.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
More than two billion dollars to build their road.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
That is so much money, and it's double, it's more
than double what it was originally costed to be. And
when you have projects like Patoni to Grenada, second Mount
Victoria Tunnel sitting around, I'm just not sure that that's
the best use.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I'm going to According to a text, they are going
to toll it.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah, and that's good. It should be, it should be told.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
But it's going to take a long time to get
to a billion dollars worth of tolling.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
City.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
You see bridge Hamous What do you think? I mean,
it's been a bit of a screw up. The signs
were up, the builders were coming in, it was going
to be pulled down. Then suddenly, all of a sudden
it's not going to be and now they're starting to
clean it up and do it up.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Yeah, well, personally I find it quite an ugly You know,
piece of construction, but it's incredibly practical in terms of
getting from the city down onto the waterfront. So whatever
they end up finally doing, I hope there is still
some sort of crossing that doesn't doesn't doesn't take across
the road, slow down the highway even more. But but
but I have no affection for it as a as
(22:56):
a piece of art.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
But have you walked across and thought, you know, once
halfway across you look and you see the city and
then you see the CBD and you say, you can
you know, I have a have your sam Often you
see people having the sand their lunch up here. No,
I mean, apart from them being ugly, it's useful.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
I walk across it. I have walked across it many times,
and I think it's in a great spot. And you're
absolutely right, and it's just it's practical. When it's when
it was integrated to the Civic Square, it was a
great part of Wellington, right.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Georgina Campbell, you are looking at me with that look
that I have seen many times before. Come on, come on.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
The thing that frustrates me about this bridge is that
the last minute change of heart by the council is
because it wants to wait until the recommendations of the
government's Seismic Review and Earthquake Prome Building Review is finished
and released at the end of this month, because Council
offices have become aware that there are new engineering standards
(23:56):
to be released as part of that review, which might
mean that the bridge is no longer considered a risk. Well,
they should have been reading the New Zealand Herald in
June last.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Year when or listening to the show with me and
you've talked about it, when you told us about.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
It, and you know I wrote that the review will
consider scrapping the new building standard ratings, which engineers used
to decide where the structures of earthquake prone. Like, it
has been clear for some time that this review is
a major shakeup of that system. So for the Council
to all of a sudden be like, oh no, no,
we should wait until that happens, it's like, you guys
(24:32):
should have known a lot earlier than that. I My
biggest concern with this bridge is that the commentary that
in a big earthquake, and it's when it happens, not if,
because it's going to happen, that it collapses onto the
keys that arterial roots and prevents emergency services from getting
(24:54):
through the hospital. Now the council has to be seriously
sure that that is not going to happen, or there's
not a significant risk of that happening, because that would
be completely unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Well, you can get a build and clean it out
pretty quickly, right talking about councils Lower Heart, Upper Heart,
Potty Wellington amalgamation Haymus Rudtherford, I just with what's going
on in Auckland. Some say successfully, some say not so successfully.
I'm on the success side. I think it's a really
(25:26):
good idea.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
I agree. I mean it's probably easy for people who
live in Wellington, and I can see why if you
are an upper hut you think, well, this is code
for a loss of control into Wellington City. So perhaps
there'd be a bit of skepticism. But just from the
efficiency point of view, getting the city thinking of itself
in a region as a region and operating as a
region personally, I think it's a good idea.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yea, and events and trying to get more things that
we've got the whole all working together instead of working separately.
I mean, doesn't that make perfect sense to me?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It does.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
But then chances are if there are more events, if
we bring more events, and they're going to be in
Wellington City in all likelihood, So I can see why
perhaps people in Upper Heart might not view with you
out the same way.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
If you own Brewtown, you wouldn't think so, because there's
be a lot of stuff that could go out there.
They could amalg George, what are your thoughts? I mean,
this is your bread and butter, local councils. What do
you think?
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yeah, I think the amalgamation conversation is really heating up,
but interestingly it's not kind of hitting mainstream channels, and
I think it should be. There are all these little
bread crumbs that are littered across what government ministers are saying,
Like the Prime Minister has said that there are too
many layers of government when you know it is open
to scrapping regional councils. You know, Chris Bishop has stopped
(26:38):
councils working on district and regional plans while he's working
on a massive overhaul of the RIMA, you know, which
would kind of feeds into the Three Waters reform. Like
things are being taken off councils and even Chris Hipkins
is kind of you did that interview with him. He's
up for amalgamation in Wellington, and I just think with
(27:01):
there's double digit rates increases in that compounding effect, like
are in a financially unsustainable position?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And how do you think? I mean, Hot City and
Pottator have got a referendum question and they're voting. How
do you reckon they're going to go? What's your gut
telling you on that?
Speaker 4 (27:19):
I actually don't know because I don't think people, well,
people haven't been asked about this in a few years.
The questions are sort of quite open ended. They're a
bit different and it's sort of asking people, are you
open to us exploring amalgamation. But I think those questions
are not so much of a definitive answer. They're non
binding referendums. I think it's more about, you know, front
(27:42):
footing this inevitable.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Conversation the Friday face of.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
The come on Hei mish Rudiford, give us your hots
and not well.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
They're both both related to the hots with the South
African rugby fans, both last week at the stadium and
I was at Eden Park the week before. Both games.
At least I think a third of the crowd with
South Afric and absolutely wonderfully behaved, including in Wellington where
they absolutely whipped us in the second half. And you
know they very well behaved the Knots, the All Blacks
(28:15):
in the second half at Wellington. I've seen the All
Black slows before, but I've never seen anything like that.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Can I just quickly ask you before we go to George.
You've got plenty of little bit of time. I just
want to ask you where you thought was the better
watching your better occasion, better place to go and watch
Eden Park or Sky Stadium in Monning.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
I'm sorry to say it, but it's clearly Eden Park.
It's a better stadium really in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yes, and you share my view a little bit that
we might have problems getting the big events here.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
I absolutely think we will when the Cross Church Stadium
opens and we have two covered stadiums. Wellington probably have
might have some real difficulty.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
There. You go, Georgina Campbell, give us your hots and
knots well.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
I decided to keep mine local to Mirramar Peninsula, which
is where I live. My hot is literally hot. There
is a beautiful sauna at Wuser Bay. It's called Scenic
saunas that I have become addicted to, and it means
that you can swim in the sea all year round.
It's a wood fire sauna, so you go in like
(29:13):
you get hot and come out and do your cold
plunge in the sea. It is so exhilarating And if
you've fallen out of love with Wellington, go there have
a sauna session on a nice day. I did it
on Tuesday and that beautiful well worse the bay is a.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Big place whereabouts it by the yacht club or is.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
It they're close close to the yacht club, like just
behind the sea sand dunes there and the water was
crystal clear, Like I just thought, gosh, I live in
a beautiful place. That's my Hotmy not is the dog
poo on Merma Peninsula, Like I don't know what it
is with the streech from Sea Tune to Scorching Bay,
(29:53):
which is like quite an affluent area of Wellington, and
there is a dog poop for Africa, Like I have
never seen anything like it in any other suburbs that
I've ever lived in. But they just don't people don't
clean up after the dogs.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
That is terrible. You got a dog age. I do
do you look clean up after as you go? I
certainly do ye, Yeah, so do I When I did
have a dog.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Like you seriously have to kind of keep your eyes
on the pavement and not at the beautiful scenery in
case you step in it.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
We moth have to do it an hour on it
next week. Does your dog do what it shouldn't do
where it shouldn't do it? And do you not pick
it up?
Speaker 5 (30:27):
Unfortunately, George will be in Europe.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Hey, wonderful to see you. Both. Both ex colleagues are
bide and both people that I classify as friends are lovely, lovely,
greatest people in the world. Georgina Campbell is about to
have a little bit of a holiday.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yes, I'm flying out tomorrow. Very exciting.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, so when you get back we must catch up. Hey,
miss Rudford. Always good to see you. Keep up the
good work and lovely, lovely to see you both have
a great, great weekend and a great safe trip to
Europe or.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Last snag pleasure.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast. iHeartRadio
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