Education Minister Erica Stanford repeatedly tried to brief and seek input from Labour’s education spokeswoman Willow-Jean Prime about impending NCEA changes - but Prime and Hipkins refused to meet. Is this what we expect from the opposition?
Also, the Wellington City Council has voted against a proposal to install fencing along Wellington's waterfront after a recommendation from the coroner. Is this the right call?
To answer those questions, BRG senior consultant and former chief press secretary to Christopher Luxon Hamish Rutherford and Newstalk ZB political editor Jason Walls joined Nick Mills for Friday Faceoff.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday facear with Kudovic Property Management, a better rental experience
for all.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Visit Quovic dot co dot It's.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Head Thursday.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Start join us. The Friday face off is b RG
senior consultant and Christopher Luxen's former press secretary and a
former journalist and colleague of mine and general good guy
(00:49):
Hams Rudder for it Morning Homes, Good morning, how are you?
I know I pronounce your name wrong? When we'll get
it over and done with. But we'll get through the
show and we'll worry about that later. A new Stalks
there be political editor for the very last day to day.
Another good guy. I think he's a good guy. Jason Walls.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Are you gonna make me crying?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Nick? Last day?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Do you remember your last day here?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
H I do remember my last day here? It was,
it was, it was difficult. And I do remember Jason
turning up in Wellington. How long ago was it must
be nine years? A very boy faced he's still got
sort of boyish good looks, but you know he's come
a long way in nine years.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Have you ever worked together?
Speaker 4 (01:26):
We were there, that being you at the Herald.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
We work, but it's a it's a you know, within journalism,
it's often a pretty collegial relationship.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
So no, did you ever have any argy barges when
it was down at the Beehive? Come on, there must
be some.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Little story when you were in the press. I mean,
it wasn't nothing insurmountable in Political editor.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Jason was the Political editor and the chair of the
Press Gallery and and and naturally you do come into
conflict because the interests of the Press Gallery and the
and the Prime Minister's office don't always perfectly alike. But
but but I think, actually, I don't think our relationship
ever really deteriorated.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
It was fine. I mean, I've known of Hamish my
entire reporting career because I used to follow them on
Twitter and stuff, and then when I came down to
work in Wellington, I messaged them one day. I was like, Hey,
I've been a big fan for years, and you want
to maybe grab a beer? And I did, and then
I met him in the flesh and we've been good
friends ever since.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
An off the record meetings at Parliament, was there anything
that you like, you would sneak down down into a
little dudgeon, had a little bit of a chat.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Oh, it's not toobouch sneaking around, but I spent a
lot of time talking to Jason, and you know, it's
a it's a very important role that they play.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And we try to get a story. I was fishing.
I was fishing at a piece of water where there
was no fish.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
But Hamish would do this thing where you come down
to our office and sit down and there what's the goss?
And then we were just we were just kind of
gossip for a little bit. It was great. And so
that's kind of a bit of a running joke. Now
somebody walks into my office, takes an eclipments from Eclipse
Mints from my desk and says, what's the goss?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
It's when when I moved into into into the other
side of politics. It was certainly something I messed the
gossip that you pick up in the news room. Because
once you get used to used to the way these things,
these things run, you sort of never you miss it forever.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
And you'd suddenly be the enemy. You'd be there, or
not the enemy, but the way that you'd be watching
what you say in front of.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
But well they they had to test what you were saying.
And you know, we wanted to present what the government
was doing in a positive light and they were always
testing it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
So it's you know, great, Well, let's start with what
we started with this morning, right, national and labor education story.
Let's let's start with that. Education Minister Erica Stanford repeatedly
tried to brief Labour's education spokeswoman Willow Jen Prime about
the NCEEA changes, but Prime and then Hipkins refused to meet.
(03:35):
Despite Hipkins going on about this whole idea of the
cross party collaboration, heymush, what's going on here? I've called
it labor labor, lazy labor because you know they didn't
even bother responding to texts.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
That is how it looks, you know. Obviously, you know
all MP's people probably don't appreciate all MP's do work
very very hard. And I'm sure well o Gen Prime
as a very busy woman, but she's been caught out
because you know, it's one thing to go and meet
you know, every year, unificial and every teacher up and
down the country. The real sort of the chance that
she has to get good information and have an influence
(04:12):
is by meeting with the Education minister about something as important,
as important as this and as important to so many
New Zealanders. The way I think about this as a
political management point of view, this was a story on
Monday and it was very you know, I think broadly speaking,
it's been very well received. That changes to n CEA
labor the thing that you knowing what it's like an opposition,
(04:33):
the thing you want to do when the government does
something good, you say, you know, this is great, but
we should be focusing on the number of kids that
are turning up to school hungry and hoping that the
country moves on instead. Five days after the story came out,
there's a picture of Ericas Stanford on the front page
of the Herald and Labor, you know, basically having a
significant misstep, arguably embarrassing the leader of the Labor Party
(04:56):
who said, you know, they should be that the government
should be should be cooperating with them. It's you know,
Labour's away day and here we are still a week
later talking about it. That that will hurt Labor. I
think more than anything that it's such an unforced era
and the stories now are week old.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, and Jason, we all had so had Mike Hoskings saying,
you know, repeatedly saying that how Chris wouldn't get up
early in the morning for an interview on it as well.
Do I don't know whether you heard that story, but
that was that was going on and on about Ryan
Bridge tried to get him on his shown he said
it was too early in the morning for him.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I mean, it's just a deflection because this looks terrible
for Labor. It looks absolutely awful, because this is why
people don't like politicians, right. This is exactly what people
think of when they think of the dirty, slimy business
of politics, that it's all for show. And we had
Chris Hipkins saying repeatedly that they want to be involved
in things and he doesn't want to be in politics
(05:51):
just for opposing. And that's exactly how this looks. If
you're not taking the calls from the Education minister when
it comes to changes to Nceea as the education spokesperson
for the opposition party, why you here? What are you doing?
And we've heard from Willow Jean just few minutes actually
down at Labor's caucus retreat, in christ Church, and she
says that she quote could have done better on this one,
(06:12):
and she didn't realize how fast the announcement would be
made and she needed more time, which I think is
complete to quote Winston Peter's boulderdash, because at the end
of the.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Day she only responded when she knew the announcement Hamus
was coming out twenty four hours time. It was the
first time she responded.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
One hundred percent and by that point it's too late.
This is clearly you know, you could say this is
a job by the Education minister, but that's the nature
of politics. She was behind, she was scrambling towards the end,
and now it's very embarrassing.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Yeah, yeah, this is one of those things I've spent
a lot of this week talking about what I like
about politics is actually behind the scene. And Hamers alluded
to this as well, is that people actually do genuinely
work quite well together from across parties and things, and
this just really is a blemish on that. This is
just people that are on the surface surface of it
(07:01):
don't seem to care about the business of governing this
country and a more folks on scoring cheap political points.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Can I just quickly ask you both, and I'll start
with you. Hamish Erica Stanford. I mean absolute rock star.
She can't make a mistake, can she?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Oh? Absolutely, She's one of the national strongest performers. She's
done I think great, great work on education. I think
this aligns, you know, the anecdotes that I'm hearing from
people who have who have kids at school or employers
they don't understand in CEA, so they wanted this fixed.
She seems to have handled it well. She handled the
(07:38):
abuse and care stuff pretty well. I think some you know, difficult,
chunky portfolios. I think immigration, historically, education and health are
sort of called the suicide portfolios because it's just it's
just it's just so difficult and so many things can
go wrong. But I think I think she's managing it well.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Your personal thoughts now you're leaving to be hyping.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I've always said what I like this a good thing
about being the political editor. No, I think she's great.
I think you're you're right, And I think what she
does very well is the retail politics of it. One
of the things that when, for example, when the NATS
were in opposition, there had the mobile phone ban in
schools and a lot of people, including myself, said well, hey,
this is already happening in schools. This is a little
bit silly, But then it's something that parents particularly really
(08:20):
capped onto and now they can show the results of
it happening. And it's the same with NCAA. So I
think that she does retail very well.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
From a political point of view, whenever you're making an announcement,
you want it to be well received, but you want
enough people to be opposed to it that it keeps
the story going. When it came to the phone ban,
we couldn't believe how lucky we got that Labor just
instinctively went against it, and it kept the story going
for days and days and days, and all the parents
were saying, we're on your side. The worst thing that
(08:46):
can happen is you make an announcement in no opposition
and the government says okay, great and the story goes away.
Here's another example that Labor has made a government announcement,
is that the public area on their side last for
days and days and days.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah. Another story that we talked about this morning that
you both will know deeply because not too far from
the beehive Wellington City Council has voted against the proposal
to install the fencing along Wellington's Waterford recommendations, even though
recommendations from the coroner said that should go up, and
have said that the council's been remiss because they know
of the lives that have been lost. Jace, you would
(09:21):
have walked along that waterfront one hell of a lot
when you actually get leaving.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
More stumbling home from Parliament is what you're trying to say.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, you can say that, is this the right decision
by Wellington City Council.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, I mean, just it's not like it's a sheer
drop off into a cliff and then rocks right at
the bottom and anybody that gets close is going to die, right,
I mean, it seems like it's common sense and just
stay away, just stay away from the side. I never
really understood why this was an issue, and I'm glad
Wellington Council have come to the conclusion they have. The
coroner was right to see what the coroner said, But
(09:54):
then again, the coroner would probably look at the fatalities
on New Zealand's roads and say we should ban cars
as well. I mean, and it's the Council's decision and
it's their prerogative to look at the advice and make
a decision. I think on this one they probably have
got it right.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Hey, mus what did your what do your initial thoughts
when when this is all going down?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Oh look, I mean on the one hand that you know,
the waterfront is so beautiful and it would be a
bit of a nice are I guess just I guess
to put account of you. We have a three year
old daughter. We love taking her out on a scooter
and the areas where there's not not offense, would just
be reluctant to take her because you know she could
so easily, you know, a little bit out of control
and go over the edge. So I can kind of
(10:31):
understand why there's pressure for it. It's it to be
to be for that, it's a slightly dangerous situation. Every
now and then someone's going to go over the edge,
and if it's you know, when it does go wrong,
you can understand why people would be demanding for it
to be fixed.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
So do you think the council made the right decision
by putting this temporary fencing up there? No one knows
what's going to happen with that, but obviously they're going
to leave it to the next council to make a decision.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I mean, I guess you'd like one thing around all
or another because that temporary fencing just makes it look
so cheap and nasty. So I either put up a
proper fence, will take it.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, do it or don't.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
It's Friday face off with Hamosh Rudford and Jason Walls.
Government is planning to ditch petrol taxes in favor of
road user charges for all motorists by twenty twenty seven,
saving us or when we go to the petrol pump
around about seventy cents a later, but we're going to
have to pay a tax via the rucks Hamish Rudiford,
(11:25):
What do you think of this plan? I mean it
would have been in the talking point when you were
in the beehive. I mean, what are your thoughts? Why
are they doing it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well I wasn't involved in conversations about this thing in particular,
but this has been an idea. I remember talking to
someone from the AA about this sort of a decade
ago that sooner or later we're going to get to
the point where you're going to pay for the roads
through road user charges.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I mean, have they been discussing this for a while,
because I've never even thought of.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It as an idea. It's a bit like the shift
from analog to digital television. Sooner or later we'll get there.
I mean, if you think about the number of electric
cars that we have on the roads that are increasing
every week, you know, possibly not as much as they were,
but increasing week. They're not paying the road user charges.
And then you see someone you know driving along the
motorway and an old you know, an oldness in maxima,
(12:14):
chances are they're either a petrol head or they can't
afford to upgrade their car, and they are getting absolutely
slammed if they can't afford to upgrade their cars because
they're on a lower income. And so the current taxation
is actually regressive as in the you know, poorer people
end up paying more. So I mean, it's yeah, it's
an inevitably inevitability over time, you know, more and more
(12:36):
electric car drivers are you know that it was part
of the encouragement to get them, get people to buy that.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Are currently paying it now. So I mean, so they
have brought it in, so we do currently pay it
but I mean, you're right and the and the you're
right that the hybrid one is even worse, exactly because
because hybrid, you'd fill up your car once every three
weeks if you're lucky, exactly. Jason Wall's what do you
think what's the public sentiment being on this?
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Oh? I think the public probably looks at this and says, oh, yeah,
it seems about right. I think Chris Bishop did quite
a good job of selling it in so far as
saying that you're not this is an equity argument, and
Hamish made the good point that it is a regressive
tax at the moment because if you're somebody that's a
poor family that can't afford an ev, you're stuck paying
the petrol tax. And whereas a wealthy Tesla driver doesn't
(13:19):
have to worry about that at all. Tesla's are heavy cars.
They're way worse on the roads than a lot of
other you know, your your Nissan. I'm not a car guy.
What's a petrol Zuki Swift or something like that? You know?
And I think the thing that cracked me up about
it was Bish was talking about how at the end
of the month you'd pay your your your charge is
(13:39):
like a Netflix subscription. I thought, I like Netflix. I'd
hate to be paying a bill. You know, I get
where you're coming from.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
But Jesus, once again we've seen a politician put it
together pretty damn well. I mean that the little caption
on TV one where they drove out of the car
with the reporter, I think that it's quite brilliant political sales.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yeah, and I would say it's probably been quite a
good week for the government. Hamish, you could probably weigh
in better than I can. But you know, they've the
opposition has been until today quite silent and the government
has had the run of things.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, it's difficult for the opposition in a recess week.
This week the government's been doing what it can, making
announcements using its pulpit, and yeah, I think it's you know,
people see government doing things, making some tricky decisions and
getting on with it. Maybe there will be a bit
of a bit of trouble when in the changeover period
if people need to pay for some sort of technology
to to to be able to do this. But I
(14:31):
think overall, you know, talk about it now if it happens,
and if it happens down the track by the time
it gets to that point, people will be sort of
so used to the idea that they'll just do it
and move on.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
What do you both say? And I'll come to you first,
Jason this, what do you say to those people that
think once the technology is in the car and you
go five kilometers over the speed limits, is suddenly you
can automatically get a ticket? Now, I had an expert
on the show that just rang in the show and
he said that technologies a while away, but I can
tell in my car it prings me every time I
go over. So surely that technology is something to the
(15:03):
government to look at it.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
It seems a little big brother ask to me. It's
just the idea that having, you know, having the government
in your car. It just I doesn't want.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Going to do that for road user. Yeah. Different.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah, it's a little different though, because it's like they're
watching you and if you're getting a ticket going over.
I mean, listen, I was driving the transmission gully the
other day and without looking, I was going one hundred
and twenty. I was like, jeez, if there was a Spotify, yeah,
it would slow people down. But it just doesn't sit right.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I don't know, were you in one of the company cars.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
No, no, no, because we get a little we get
a notification that sent to our editors for it. And
I was doing one of the campaigns and Audrey Young,
who was my editor at the time, she kind of
took me aside and she was just like, oh no, no,
she didn't. I was driving her somewhere and then she
got all these emails from me from the bosses saying
he's over, he's over. And then she turned to me
and she said, you're a much better driver than those
emails would suggest.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Well, my producer's got one of those leaders, got one
of those leaders from his bosses as well, from the
company cars. I mean himachured busty to get in here.
What do you got to.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Say, Oh, just that exactly that it already happens for employers.
I mean, I hope it doesn't get. As someone who occasionally,
you know, like Jason on on Transmission Gully, you sometimes
look on the steep downhills you go one hundred and
twenty k's it's you hope it doesn't get, you know,
to the point where it's it's the job of the
police to catch you, not the job of your car
to tell on.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
You, did you get any of those emails from your
previous employer?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I don't remember getting no.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
One will very diplomatic answer, he doesn't remember.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
He doesn't remember this. Yeah, Limost, my producers just telling
me my Limost don't get them. I remember a certain
prime mitister. Was it Helen Clark? Yes, that wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It was one hundred and sixty ks now through the
back of Canterbury and racing so she could make it
to the rugby. Those were glorious days.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
They were good days. I want to talk about groceries.
This is something that's really starting to get up my
nose right The Grocery Commissioner has just released its latest
report on the state of the industry, finding we have
pay higher prices than most of the OECD fifth. We're
fifth right now. I personally think the ros Grocery Commissioner
(17:05):
has been a complete, an utter waste of time. We
keep hearing that the only solution is the third player?
But hamous is this run? Is this amos run of it?
Is this actually realistically realistic? Could we get a third player?
Or is it just narrative to make us all feel
that something better is going to happen?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
If we were going to have if we are sorry,
if we are going to have a third player. It'll
take a long time to build up the scale. I mean,
you know, in Wellington we have more Wilson's. There's a
few other players, but it's going to take a long
time not to I don't know the grocery commissioner. But
it's not like you can appoint an official and suddenly
the price of food comes down. It's as simple as that, hopefully.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I mean, the story that we were sold by labor
when they put him in it was labor that put
him in, was that this was this was the answer.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah. Well, I mean that's the that's always the temptation
to reach for the lever that you have, which is
to hire someone and say here's the solution. You might
get a day of good news out of it, you know.
And now they're not in Now they're not in charge
to answer the questions about why it hasn't fixed the problem.
But you know, all, you know, I don't really think
that the government itself can do much. You've seen perhaps
(18:13):
a bit of jaw boning from from the beehive about
supermarket prices and the supermarkets sort of steer back at them,
and prices haven't come down, and so it's it's hard work.
The only solution is competition. The government, I don't think
should directly intervene and create a company or sponsor a company.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
To break up a company.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Well, that that would be an enormous, enormous thing to do,
because on the one hand, it's an interesting kind of idea,
but on the other hand, you could create a bit
of sovereign riskers. And if you break i don't know,
pack and save and your world and into toe or
you do some sort of structural separation on that, it's
it's you know, some of the supermarkets are individually owned,
(18:53):
so it's it's it's hard, but you know, basically they
should be doing whatever they can to try and attract
a third player. Whether that happens or not, I'm not sure.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
And David Symour would never let that sort of thing
happen either.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
You don't think he did. No, No, they keep saying
that they got to get in there with a sword.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
But it's I think, as hate we said, it's it's
Nicola Willis with the jaw boning. Every second day. She's
coming out and putting the supermarkets on notice and nothing
is changing. And I think people are really cottoning onto this.
And she's she tried to do with fon terror and
saying I'm going to go in there and we're going
to talk about the price of butter, and obviously nothing changes.
She just needs to be seen to be doing something
quite often, and I think that it's kind of wearing
(19:31):
thin with the public at the moment. Just because a
politician is saying, oh, we need to do something, We're
going to go in and have some meetings, doesn't mean
things are actually going to change.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And they haven't.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
They haven't changed.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
I haven't changed the thing. No.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
But and I also do think that you know, we're
and you know, I blame the media, I guess because
it's my last four hours on the job. But I'm
going back into media, I guess. But you know, we
do as a country every winter get obsessed with the
price of a certain thing. And a couple of years
ago it was the price of cucumbers, the price of tomatoes,
and you're like, hello, these are seasonal vegetables. Of course
(20:03):
they're going to be jumping around a bit.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I get the tomato, the cucumbers because we don't have
to have tomato with a ham and tomato sandwich. Were
gonna have ham and cheese, but we still got to
have the butter.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Well, the thing with butter is it's dictated by the
global price. And if you look at Brad Olson actually
did some really good research on this to see that
the New Zealand economy is actually a lot better off
when we've got we've got some butter with you right now,
sayfety dollars worth it in your life.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Little I got a buffer this morning. They gave you
a little contata of butter, and I saved the contato
of butter. I mean, it's getty ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
You could sell that and buy a new house.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I think Jason's point is absolutely valid, and I know
it's very hard for people, but I mean, and the
scheme of I don't know how how much butter you
use in your household. It doesn't have the impact of
you know, pepso you know a bug leap and petrol prices.
But the fact is New Zealand benefits when international commodity
prices in particular deary are high. And if you want
(20:56):
the economy to get out of this funk, Actually it's
more likely to do that when milk prices are high
than when they're low. And yes, that means that that
that goods at the supermarket go up a bit, but
overall it's better for New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I mean, good point, amosh. Do we just need to
get over ourselves with the supermarket prices? Where are five
million people? We're at the bottom of the world. We're
hugely spread out, so cost of getting things around the
country and we all have to even it out. Do
we just have to get over ourselves? Oh?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Look, look, I mean the fact is that's what that's
what people, what affects people and what they notice. And
the government's job. You know, they can't they can't drag
you know, wal mart in here and tell them to
open supermarkets everywhere, and they can't. They shouldn't promise them,
you know, lots of subsidies to do. So what they
should be doing is ensuring that the competition settings are
fear looking for anything that they can to do that
(21:48):
and and and get on and do it.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Jason, is there anything else the government could absolutely could
could do and do easily to bring the prices down
in supermarkets without talk.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Import another four million people, so that there's some actual
scale and some incentive for another supermarket player to get here.
I mean, we're a country of five million people. It's
not really a lucrative offer for an Aldi or a
Walmart to take the risk. In the global economy right
now that is being turned on its head by tariffs.
It's just not going to happen. And I don't think
(22:20):
there is much you can do outside of subsidizing grocery prices,
and you shouldn't app I mean, we just have to
look back at Muldoon to know why subsidizing things like
terry is a bad idea.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
It's interesting because I heard Simon Bridges this morning jumping
up and down about Auckland, saying Auckland is a quarter
of the population in New Zealand, quarter of everything, and
so important. They've got a third player. So a quarter
of New Zealand has got a third player in Costco,
haven't they. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I don't think someone was talking just about supermarket prices,
but and there is apparently some evidence that around Costco
it has an impact because the locals have to have
to compete with it. But to Jason's point, we're a
small population country, but actually quite a large country and
so you've got to deliver. People have expectations that they'll
get the same services in the cargo and Gisbon as
they do in Auckland, and that's its QUADN operation.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Friday face off with BRG Senior consultant Hamish Rudford and
new Stalk said, b's x in about three hours time.
Political still still.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
The political editor.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Not yet.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
I'll we exit five or one p.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
That's what I've said in a few hours time. I
wasn't trying to cut you off. We'll get your fired
before you get your last big pay. Let's talk about fishery.
Fishy story for me, I got pretty upset by this
Fisheries Minister Shane Jones, a former Sea Lord chair recipient
of donations from the fishing industry. I mean he brought
(23:41):
out this sweeping change to the Fishery Acts, including preventing
the public from assessing footage from cameras on boats. Do
we you might be able to both answer this? Can
the media still get to look at those under or not?
I think he's cut us out as well. I think
everyone's been cut out well.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
I think at one point sheen John specifically said that
he doesn't want people accident accessing it through OIA Official
Information Act requests. So I don't think.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
So, hey, okay, start me up here.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
No Hamis should start you up here, Start me up here.
I need to hear what he has to see so
I can figure out what.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I'm strongly thinking that there's a conflict here.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Sure, sure, okay, what are your thoughts? Well as as
you said in the meeting notes, Shane Jones is a
former sea a former chairman of Sea Lord. And if
you go through his declarations of donations over at least
a decade, he's been getting significant donations from the fishing industry.
He You can accuse Shane Jones of many things, but
(24:39):
you cannot accuse him of not being nakedly supportive of
the fishing industry, nakedly supportive of the mining industry, nakedly
supportive of the farming industry. So if you aren't surprised
by what happened this week, I ask you to pay
attention for the last decade they you know I've had
I've had battles with Shane Jones over over over my
(25:01):
time in journalism. We we got on finding government and
just on the question is it a conflict of interest
if you take money from a sector, well, the Labor
Party institutionally takes money from the unions. Does that mean
that labor is not allowed to involve it involve itself
in industrial relations policy?
Speaker 3 (25:19):
But it doesn't. Doesn't it slightly concern you? And we've
got a lot of talk about that, you know, the
labor stuff and the unions and that. But you know,
Winston Peters gets a lot of money from horse racings,
doesn't he And he's Minister of Racers, So I mean, I.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Be careful here now, he's probably listening.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Something wrong.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I've got something wrong and he has, and he's supportive
of it. The fact is, you know, if you if
you really don't like it, you're invited every three years
not to vote for New Zealand first.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Okay, okay, I get that. I'm still trying to recover
from the thoughts of Change Jones naked.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
I mean I was just going to say, you said
Sheen Jones and naked one too many times for my
liking the Hamish too. Yeah, I mean, for what it's worth,
you know, Change, You make a fair point. Anybody that's
been paying attention knows where Sheen Joeans interests lay in
the same with the unions as well. It comes back
to this argument New Zealand is just too small and
if you want people in charge of a certain sector,
(26:15):
you usually get them from within the sector that they're
lobbying for or have some sort of influence in. So
it's just I don't.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Buy that, don't you. I don't buy that. I just
think it's a straight out conflict. If you're getting money
from an industry and you're getting put into parliament, of
course you're going to fight for that industry.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, you know, the National Party at certain points in
its history has been referred to as the Party of
the farmer yep. And you know, are you are you
suggesting that at any point over the past. You know, however,
whatever the history of the National Party is, that they
shouldn't involve themselves and policies around the primary sector. You know,
it's just too unafforidable, you know, get it. The merits
(26:56):
of the policy, I don't actually the particular policies, I
don't know. But no one, no one should be surprised
that Shane Jones is trying to remove costs for the
fishing industry.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Okay, let's move on to a story that we came
across our desk that I'm sure that you're going to
have some a clear view on a body of a
recent lead deceased Deputy secretary from the Department from Internal Affairs.
His body was brought into the office for the staff
to say goodbye. And it was more than bringing his
body into staff. He was going to go into the
(27:26):
National Library until Brook van Valden found out about and said, hey,
that's not going to happen. You're not closing down the
CAF and the National so they moved it into a
meeting room. This to me, Jason Walls, is a very
weird story.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Oh it is very strange. I mean the first thing
that I thought when I read this story was when
I die, I do not want my body to go
back into the newsroom, because you know, if my colleagues
want to visit me, they can visit me. You know,
I'm not going to be lying in state anywhere. And
I don't over and fleet my opinion of myself that much.
But it just seems so strange, what's going on? Why
(27:58):
would I unless there are some intricacies and some details
here that I'm not proving to you as to why
this had to happen in a workplace. I think it's
deeply strange.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Come on, hey, mus you tell me no, no, I
mean it's an unfortunate situation. It's an unfortunate how it's unfolded.
But it would say I go into the National Library
a bit because there's a cafe attached to it. It's
normally basically empty from what I can see, unless they're
having a function there. When you think about you know,
think about Wellington and think about what government is a
lot of it really is creating a bit of a show.
(28:30):
Why do we have such an incredible Supreme Court so
that you know, when you go in there you feel like, wow,
this is a place where the law has made it serious.
It's solemn. Same with the National Library. What's it for
apart from holding events? This is a person I didn't
I wasn't aware of this person. But they're a senior
person at di A, you know. And and the sad
bit is I assume the family had been promised this
(28:51):
and now so instead of doing that, a decision's made
to take them to some meeting room and do I
A and do it there? Which is I mean, if
it was weird being in the National Library, it's even
weirder being in some random meeting Roman Department of Internal
Affair is Personally, I think maybe it would have been
a situation whether it's where it's better to ask for
forgiveness than permission. They should have let it go through
(29:13):
and then say, okay, we're not doing it again.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Very well put very good counterproduct. I mean, I mean,
you've got beakers.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Is a difference of opinion in our household and and
lots of people. Most I think I think I'm out
of I'm just about out on my own on this one.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
But it still doesn't mean I want to be brought
and put them to the cast because I think it's
bad enough that I have to walk past some of
my ex friends in colleagues photo.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
There will be a parade down Courtney Place.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
But I'm you know, no, it's going to be very
low key. I've already I can promise you it's going
to be very low key.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
The not.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Right, oh okay, hamous Rudiford pronounced wrongly. Can you give
me your hots and knots please.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I've got two hots, Great Ritchie Moore and are coming
home Finally, the other hot it's a explain. I just
think he's an absolutely outstanding player and you know, he
absolutely reached his peak in the World Cup and then unfortunately,
you know, very reasonably for him, he has to make
money for his family and just disappeared overseas. The other
one's a bit more nerdy. There was a survey out
(30:21):
yesterday saying in flesh and expectations are coming down. Reserve
Bank really follow closely follows that and hopefully that that's
another sort of another domino to fall before we get
more interest rates cuts, because it's it's it's obvious for
the world to see that everyone's kind of, you know,
the economy has not kept into life in the way
that you would expect with high commodity prices and relatively
low interest rates, and hopefully they can go lower and
(30:42):
that sort of helps kick things along.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I see, I see the English ones dropped this morning,
so they went down below four or four percent. Jason,
w's your hots and knots well.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
So my knot is my apartment. We're trying to rent
it out at the moment because we're heading to the
Big Smoke in Auckland, and unfortunately we're having some problems
with the Wellington rental market at the moment, God forbid
we try and sell it and take a blood bath
at the stage. So if anybody out there has keen
for an apartment, I'd be absolutely down for that.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
You're I missed my not Okay, hold on, Jace, give
us you're not hot that. I'll give you the number
of the person that sold it to you, and then
yet they might be able to help you go. You're
not hot. Sorry, h Well.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
We've got a new water feature at our house. It's
the patio suddenly sitting under two inches of water and
it's because, for the fourth time this year, the pipes
are bursting on our little street and it's it's just,
you know, I know, Wellington Water's woes have sort of
dropped off the main, dropped off the headlines, but it's
still a problem, certainly a problem where we're living. And
to add insult to injury, it was the water feature
(31:45):
turned up when the rates building.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I'll give you nick Leget's number thank you after the show,
which you'd already have. Sure, guys, thank you very much. Jace.
I've got to say thanks for everything you've done for
me and the show and everything you've done for everything.
You're a great guy, amazing talent, and I wish you
only everything but luck in the future and this stay
in contact. I really have a lot of respect.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure, and my heart would
have been the fact that I've really enjoyed my time
with you and everybody else as z' b and look,
I'm glad that I'm still going to be in media,
so look.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Out great and I will get you back. You were
very good. I enjoyed you. We're going to get you back.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
There's debating the good, the bad, the ugly and everything
in between. Friday face Off with Quinnovic, Wellington's property management experts.
Call eight hundred Quinnovic for more from Wellington Mornings with
Nick Mills. Listen live to news talks It'd be Wellington
from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday facear with Kudovic Property Management, a better rental experience
for all.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Visit Quovic dot co dot It's.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Head Thursday.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Start join us. The Friday face off is b RG
senior consultant and Christopher Luxen's former press secretary and a
former journalist and colleague of mine and general good guy
(00:49):
Hams Rudder for it Morning Homes, Good morning, how are you?
I know I pronounce your name wrong? When we'll get
it over and done with. But we'll get through the
show and we'll worry about that later. A new Stalks
there be political editor for the very last day to day.
Another good guy. I think he's a good guy. Jason Walls.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Are you gonna make me crying?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Nick? Last day?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Do you remember your last day here?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
H I do remember my last day here? It was,
it was, it was difficult. And I do remember Jason
turning up in Wellington. How long ago was it must
be nine years? A very boy faced he's still got
sort of boyish good looks, but you know he's come
a long way in nine years.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Have you ever worked together?
Speaker 4 (01:26):
We were there, that being you at the Herald.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
We work, but it's a it's a you know, within journalism,
it's often a pretty collegial relationship.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
So no, did you ever have any argy barges when
it was down at the Beehive? Come on, there must
be some.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Little story when you were in the press. I mean,
it wasn't nothing insurmountable in Political editor.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Jason was the Political editor and the chair of the
Press Gallery and and and naturally you do come into
conflict because the interests of the Press Gallery and the
and the Prime Minister's office don't always perfectly alike. But
but but I think, actually, I don't think our relationship
ever really deteriorated.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
It was fine. I mean, I've known of Hamish my
entire reporting career because I used to follow them on
Twitter and stuff, and then when I came down to
work in Wellington, I messaged them one day. I was like, Hey,
I've been a big fan for years, and you want
to maybe grab a beer? And I did, and then
I met him in the flesh and we've been good
friends ever since.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
An off the record meetings at Parliament, was there anything
that you like, you would sneak down down into a
little dudgeon, had a little bit of a chat.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Oh, it's not toobouch sneaking around, but I spent a
lot of time talking to Jason, and you know, it's
a it's a very important role that they play.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And we try to get a story. I was fishing.
I was fishing at a piece of water where there
was no fish.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
But Hamish would do this thing where you come down
to our office and sit down and there what's the goss?
And then we were just we were just kind of
gossip for a little bit. It was great. And so
that's kind of a bit of a running joke. Now
somebody walks into my office, takes an eclipments from Eclipse
Mints from my desk and says, what's the goss?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
It's when when I moved into into into the other
side of politics. It was certainly something I messed the
gossip that you pick up in the news room. Because
once you get used to used to the way these things,
these things run, you sort of never you miss it forever.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
And you'd suddenly be the enemy. You'd be there, or
not the enemy, but the way that you'd be watching
what you say in front of.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
But well they they had to test what you were saying.
And you know, we wanted to present what the government
was doing in a positive light and they were always
testing it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
So it's you know, great, Well, let's start with what
we started with this morning, right, national and labor education story.
Let's let's start with that. Education Minister Erica Stanford repeatedly
tried to brief Labour's education spokeswoman Willow Jen Prime about
the NCEEA changes, but Prime and then Hipkins refused to meet.
(03:35):
Despite Hipkins going on about this whole idea of the
cross party collaboration, heymush, what's going on here? I've called
it labor labor, lazy labor because you know they didn't
even bother responding to texts.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
That is how it looks, you know. Obviously, you know
all MP's people probably don't appreciate all MP's do work
very very hard. And I'm sure well o Gen Prime
as a very busy woman, but she's been caught out
because you know, it's one thing to go and meet
you know, every year, unificial and every teacher up and
down the country. The real sort of the chance that
she has to get good information and have an influence
(04:12):
is by meeting with the Education minister about something as important,
as important as this and as important to so many
New Zealanders. The way I think about this as a
political management point of view, this was a story on
Monday and it was very you know, I think broadly speaking,
it's been very well received. That changes to n CEA
labor the thing that you knowing what it's like an opposition,
(04:33):
the thing you want to do when the government does
something good, you say, you know, this is great, but
we should be focusing on the number of kids that
are turning up to school hungry and hoping that the
country moves on instead. Five days after the story came out,
there's a picture of Ericas Stanford on the front page
of the Herald and Labor, you know, basically having a
significant misstep, arguably embarrassing the leader of the Labor Party
(04:56):
who said, you know, they should be that the government
should be should be cooperating with them. It's you know,
Labour's away day and here we are still a week
later talking about it. That that will hurt Labor. I
think more than anything that it's such an unforced era
and the stories now are week old.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, and Jason, we all had so had Mike Hoskings saying,
you know, repeatedly saying that how Chris wouldn't get up
early in the morning for an interview on it as well.
Do I don't know whether you heard that story, but
that was that was going on and on about Ryan
Bridge tried to get him on his shown he said
it was too early in the morning for him.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I mean, it's just a deflection because this looks terrible
for Labor. It looks absolutely awful, because this is why
people don't like politicians, right. This is exactly what people
think of when they think of the dirty, slimy business
of politics, that it's all for show. And we had
Chris Hipkins saying repeatedly that they want to be involved
in things and he doesn't want to be in politics
(05:51):
just for opposing. And that's exactly how this looks. If
you're not taking the calls from the Education minister when
it comes to changes to Nceea as the education spokesperson
for the opposition party, why you here? What are you doing?
And we've heard from Willow Jean just few minutes actually
down at Labor's caucus retreat, in christ Church, and she
says that she quote could have done better on this one,
(06:12):
and she didn't realize how fast the announcement would be
made and she needed more time, which I think is
complete to quote Winston Peter's boulderdash, because at the end
of the.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Day she only responded when she knew the announcement Hamus
was coming out twenty four hours time. It was the
first time she responded.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
One hundred percent and by that point it's too late.
This is clearly you know, you could say this is
a job by the Education minister, but that's the nature
of politics. She was behind, she was scrambling towards the end,
and now it's very embarrassing.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Yeah, yeah, this is one of those things I've spent
a lot of this week talking about what I like
about politics is actually behind the scene. And Hamers alluded
to this as well, is that people actually do genuinely
work quite well together from across parties and things, and
this just really is a blemish on that. This is
just people that are on the surface surface of it
(07:01):
don't seem to care about the business of governing this
country and a more folks on scoring cheap political points.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Can I just quickly ask you both, and I'll start
with you. Hamish Erica Stanford. I mean absolute rock star.
She can't make a mistake, can she?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Oh? Absolutely, She's one of the national strongest performers. She's
done I think great, great work on education. I think
this aligns, you know, the anecdotes that I'm hearing from
people who have who have kids at school or employers
they don't understand in CEA, so they wanted this fixed.
She seems to have handled it well. She handled the
(07:38):
abuse and care stuff pretty well. I think some you know, difficult,
chunky portfolios. I think immigration, historically, education and health are
sort of called the suicide portfolios because it's just it's
just it's just so difficult and so many things can
go wrong. But I think I think she's managing it well.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Your personal thoughts now you're leaving to be hyping.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I've always said what I like this a good thing
about being the political editor. No, I think she's great.
I think you're you're right, And I think what she
does very well is the retail politics of it. One
of the things that when, for example, when the NATS
were in opposition, there had the mobile phone ban in
schools and a lot of people, including myself, said well, hey,
this is already happening in schools. This is a little
bit silly, But then it's something that parents particularly really
(08:20):
capped onto and now they can show the results of
it happening. And it's the same with NCAA. So I
think that she does retail very well.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
From a political point of view, whenever you're making an announcement,
you want it to be well received, but you want
enough people to be opposed to it that it keeps
the story going. When it came to the phone ban,
we couldn't believe how lucky we got that Labor just
instinctively went against it, and it kept the story going
for days and days and days, and all the parents
were saying, we're on your side. The worst thing that
(08:46):
can happen is you make an announcement in no opposition
and the government says okay, great and the story goes away.
Here's another example that Labor has made a government announcement,
is that the public area on their side last for
days and days and days.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah. Another story that we talked about this morning that
you both will know deeply because not too far from
the beehive Wellington City Council has voted against the proposal
to install the fencing along Wellington's Waterford recommendations, even though
recommendations from the coroner said that should go up, and
have said that the council's been remiss because they know
of the lives that have been lost. Jace, you would
(09:21):
have walked along that waterfront one hell of a lot
when you actually get leaving.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
More stumbling home from Parliament is what you're trying to say.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, you can say that, is this the right decision
by Wellington City Council.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, I mean, just it's not like it's a sheer
drop off into a cliff and then rocks right at
the bottom and anybody that gets close is going to die, right,
I mean, it seems like it's common sense and just
stay away, just stay away from the side. I never
really understood why this was an issue, and I'm glad
Wellington Council have come to the conclusion they have. The
coroner was right to see what the coroner said, But
(09:54):
then again, the coroner would probably look at the fatalities
on New Zealand's roads and say we should ban cars
as well. I mean, and it's the Council's decision and
it's their prerogative to look at the advice and make
a decision. I think on this one they probably have
got it right.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Hey, mus what did your what do your initial thoughts
when when this is all going down?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Oh look, I mean on the one hand that you know,
the waterfront is so beautiful and it would be a
bit of a nice are I guess just I guess
to put account of you. We have a three year
old daughter. We love taking her out on a scooter
and the areas where there's not not offense, would just
be reluctant to take her because you know she could
so easily, you know, a little bit out of control
and go over the edge. So I can kind of
(10:31):
understand why there's pressure for it. It's it to be
to be for that, it's a slightly dangerous situation. Every
now and then someone's going to go over the edge,
and if it's you know, when it does go wrong,
you can understand why people would be demanding for it
to be fixed.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
So do you think the council made the right decision
by putting this temporary fencing up there? No one knows
what's going to happen with that, but obviously they're going
to leave it to the next council to make a decision.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I mean, I guess you'd like one thing around all
or another because that temporary fencing just makes it look
so cheap and nasty. So I either put up a
proper fence, will take it.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, do it or don't.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
It's Friday face off with Hamosh Rudford and Jason Walls.
Government is planning to ditch petrol taxes in favor of
road user charges for all motorists by twenty twenty seven,
saving us or when we go to the petrol pump
around about seventy cents a later, but we're going to
have to pay a tax via the rucks Hamish Rudiford,
(11:25):
What do you think of this plan? I mean it
would have been in the talking point when you were
in the beehive. I mean, what are your thoughts? Why
are they doing it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well I wasn't involved in conversations about this thing in particular,
but this has been an idea. I remember talking to
someone from the AA about this sort of a decade
ago that sooner or later we're going to get to
the point where you're going to pay for the roads
through road user charges.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I mean, have they been discussing this for a while,
because I've never even thought of.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It as an idea. It's a bit like the shift
from analog to digital television. Sooner or later we'll get there.
I mean, if you think about the number of electric
cars that we have on the roads that are increasing
every week, you know, possibly not as much as they were,
but increasing week. They're not paying the road user charges.
And then you see someone you know driving along the
motorway and an old you know, an oldness in maxima,
(12:14):
chances are they're either a petrol head or they can't
afford to upgrade their car, and they are getting absolutely
slammed if they can't afford to upgrade their cars because
they're on a lower income. And so the current taxation
is actually regressive as in the you know, poorer people
end up paying more. So I mean, it's yeah, it's
an inevitably inevitability over time, you know, more and more
(12:36):
electric car drivers are you know that it was part
of the encouragement to get them, get people to buy that.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Are currently paying it now. So I mean, so they
have brought it in, so we do currently pay it
but I mean, you're right and the and the you're
right that the hybrid one is even worse, exactly because
because hybrid, you'd fill up your car once every three
weeks if you're lucky, exactly. Jason Wall's what do you
think what's the public sentiment being on this?
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Oh? I think the public probably looks at this and says, oh, yeah,
it seems about right. I think Chris Bishop did quite
a good job of selling it in so far as
saying that you're not this is an equity argument, and
Hamish made the good point that it is a regressive
tax at the moment because if you're somebody that's a
poor family that can't afford an ev, you're stuck paying
the petrol tax. And whereas a wealthy Tesla driver doesn't
(13:19):
have to worry about that at all. Tesla's are heavy cars.
They're way worse on the roads than a lot of
other you know, your your Nissan. I'm not a car guy.
What's a petrol Zuki Swift or something like that? You know?
And I think the thing that cracked me up about
it was Bish was talking about how at the end
of the month you'd pay your your your charge is
(13:39):
like a Netflix subscription. I thought, I like Netflix. I'd
hate to be paying a bill. You know, I get
where you're coming from.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
But Jesus, once again we've seen a politician put it
together pretty damn well. I mean that the little caption
on TV one where they drove out of the car
with the reporter, I think that it's quite brilliant political sales.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yeah, and I would say it's probably been quite a
good week for the government. Hamish, you could probably weigh
in better than I can. But you know, they've the
opposition has been until today quite silent and the government
has had the run of things.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, it's difficult for the opposition in a recess week.
This week the government's been doing what it can, making
announcements using its pulpit, and yeah, I think it's you know,
people see government doing things, making some tricky decisions and
getting on with it. Maybe there will be a bit
of a bit of trouble when in the changeover period
if people need to pay for some sort of technology
to to to be able to do this. But I
(14:31):
think overall, you know, talk about it now if it happens,
and if it happens down the track by the time
it gets to that point, people will be sort of
so used to the idea that they'll just do it
and move on.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
What do you both say? And I'll come to you first,
Jason this, what do you say to those people that
think once the technology is in the car and you
go five kilometers over the speed limits, is suddenly you
can automatically get a ticket? Now, I had an expert
on the show that just rang in the show and
he said that technologies a while away, but I can
tell in my car it prings me every time I
go over. So surely that technology is something to the
(15:03):
government to look at it.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
It seems a little big brother ask to me. It's
just the idea that having, you know, having the government
in your car. It just I doesn't want.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Going to do that for road user. Yeah. Different.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah, it's a little different though, because it's like they're
watching you and if you're getting a ticket going over.
I mean, listen, I was driving the transmission gully the
other day and without looking, I was going one hundred
and twenty. I was like, jeez, if there was a Spotify, yeah,
it would slow people down. But it just doesn't sit right.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I don't know, were you in one of the company cars.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
No, no, no, because we get a little we get
a notification that sent to our editors for it. And
I was doing one of the campaigns and Audrey Young,
who was my editor at the time, she kind of
took me aside and she was just like, oh no, no,
she didn't. I was driving her somewhere and then she
got all these emails from me from the bosses saying
he's over, he's over. And then she turned to me
and she said, you're a much better driver than those
emails would suggest.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Well, my producer's got one of those leaders, got one
of those leaders from his bosses as well, from the
company cars. I mean himachured busty to get in here.
What do you got to.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Say, Oh, just that exactly that it already happens for employers.
I mean, I hope it doesn't get. As someone who occasionally,
you know, like Jason on on Transmission Gully, you sometimes
look on the steep downhills you go one hundred and
twenty k's it's you hope it doesn't get, you know,
to the point where it's it's the job of the
police to catch you, not the job of your car
to tell on.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
You, did you get any of those emails from your
previous employer?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I don't remember getting no.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
One will very diplomatic answer, he doesn't remember.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
He doesn't remember this. Yeah, Limost, my producers just telling
me my Limost don't get them. I remember a certain
prime mitister. Was it Helen Clark? Yes, that wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It was one hundred and sixty ks now through the
back of Canterbury and racing so she could make it
to the rugby. Those were glorious days.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
They were good days. I want to talk about groceries.
This is something that's really starting to get up my
nose right The Grocery Commissioner has just released its latest
report on the state of the industry, finding we have
pay higher prices than most of the OECD fifth. We're
fifth right now. I personally think the ros Grocery Commissioner
(17:05):
has been a complete, an utter waste of time. We
keep hearing that the only solution is the third player?
But hamous is this run? Is this amos run of it?
Is this actually realistically realistic? Could we get a third player?
Or is it just narrative to make us all feel
that something better is going to happen?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
If we were going to have if we are sorry,
if we are going to have a third player. It'll
take a long time to build up the scale. I mean,
you know, in Wellington we have more Wilson's. There's a
few other players, but it's going to take a long
time not to I don't know the grocery commissioner. But
it's not like you can appoint an official and suddenly
the price of food comes down. It's as simple as that, hopefully.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I mean, the story that we were sold by labor
when they put him in it was labor that put
him in, was that this was this was the answer.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah. Well, I mean that's the that's always the temptation
to reach for the lever that you have, which is
to hire someone and say here's the solution. You might
get a day of good news out of it, you know.
And now they're not in Now they're not in charge
to answer the questions about why it hasn't fixed the problem.
But you know, all, you know, I don't really think
that the government itself can do much. You've seen perhaps
(18:13):
a bit of jaw boning from from the beehive about
supermarket prices and the supermarkets sort of steer back at them,
and prices haven't come down, and so it's it's hard work.
The only solution is competition. The government, I don't think
should directly intervene and create a company or sponsor a company.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
To break up a company.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Well, that that would be an enormous, enormous thing to do,
because on the one hand, it's an interesting kind of idea,
but on the other hand, you could create a bit
of sovereign riskers. And if you break i don't know,
pack and save and your world and into toe or
you do some sort of structural separation on that, it's
it's you know, some of the supermarkets are individually owned,
(18:53):
so it's it's it's hard, but you know, basically they
should be doing whatever they can to try and attract
a third player. Whether that happens or not, I'm not sure.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
And David Symour would never let that sort of thing
happen either.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
You don't think he did. No, No, they keep saying
that they got to get in there with a sword.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
But it's I think, as hate we said, it's it's
Nicola Willis with the jaw boning. Every second day. She's
coming out and putting the supermarkets on notice and nothing
is changing. And I think people are really cottoning onto this.
And she's she tried to do with fon terror and
saying I'm going to go in there and we're going
to talk about the price of butter, and obviously nothing changes.
She just needs to be seen to be doing something
quite often, and I think that it's kind of wearing
(19:31):
thin with the public at the moment. Just because a
politician is saying, oh, we need to do something, We're
going to go in and have some meetings, doesn't mean
things are actually going to change.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And they haven't.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
They haven't changed.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
I haven't changed the thing. No.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
But and I also do think that you know, we're
and you know, I blame the media, I guess because
it's my last four hours on the job. But I'm
going back into media, I guess. But you know, we
do as a country every winter get obsessed with the
price of a certain thing. And a couple of years
ago it was the price of cucumbers, the price of tomatoes,
and you're like, hello, these are seasonal vegetables. Of course
(20:03):
they're going to be jumping around a bit.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I get the tomato, the cucumbers because we don't have
to have tomato with a ham and tomato sandwich. Were
gonna have ham and cheese, but we still got to
have the butter.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Well, the thing with butter is it's dictated by the
global price. And if you look at Brad Olson actually
did some really good research on this to see that
the New Zealand economy is actually a lot better off
when we've got we've got some butter with you right now,
sayfety dollars worth it in your life.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Little I got a buffer this morning. They gave you
a little contata of butter, and I saved the contato
of butter. I mean, it's getty ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
You could sell that and buy a new house.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I think Jason's point is absolutely valid, and I know
it's very hard for people, but I mean, and the
scheme of I don't know how how much butter you
use in your household. It doesn't have the impact of
you know, pepso you know a bug leap and petrol prices.
But the fact is New Zealand benefits when international commodity
prices in particular deary are high. And if you want
(20:56):
the economy to get out of this funk, Actually it's
more likely to do that when milk prices are high
than when they're low. And yes, that means that that
that goods at the supermarket go up a bit, but
overall it's better for New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I mean, good point, amosh. Do we just need to
get over ourselves with the supermarket prices? Where are five
million people? We're at the bottom of the world. We're
hugely spread out, so cost of getting things around the
country and we all have to even it out. Do
we just have to get over ourselves? Oh?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Look, look, I mean the fact is that's what that's
what people, what affects people and what they notice. And
the government's job. You know, they can't they can't drag
you know, wal mart in here and tell them to
open supermarkets everywhere, and they can't. They shouldn't promise them,
you know, lots of subsidies to do. So what they
should be doing is ensuring that the competition settings are
fear looking for anything that they can to do that
(21:48):
and and and get on and do it.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Jason, is there anything else the government could absolutely could
could do and do easily to bring the prices down
in supermarkets without talk.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Import another four million people, so that there's some actual
scale and some incentive for another supermarket player to get here.
I mean, we're a country of five million people. It's
not really a lucrative offer for an Aldi or a
Walmart to take the risk. In the global economy right
now that is being turned on its head by tariffs.
It's just not going to happen. And I don't think
(22:20):
there is much you can do outside of subsidizing grocery prices,
and you shouldn't app I mean, we just have to
look back at Muldoon to know why subsidizing things like
terry is a bad idea.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
It's interesting because I heard Simon Bridges this morning jumping
up and down about Auckland, saying Auckland is a quarter
of the population in New Zealand, quarter of everything, and
so important. They've got a third player. So a quarter
of New Zealand has got a third player in Costco,
haven't they. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I don't think someone was talking just about supermarket prices,
but and there is apparently some evidence that around Costco
it has an impact because the locals have to have
to compete with it. But to Jason's point, we're a
small population country, but actually quite a large country and
so you've got to deliver. People have expectations that they'll
get the same services in the cargo and Gisbon as
they do in Auckland, and that's its QUADN operation.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Friday face off with BRG Senior consultant Hamish Rudford and
new Stalk said, b's x in about three hours time.
Political still still.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
The political editor.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Not yet.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
I'll we exit five or one p.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
That's what I've said in a few hours time. I
wasn't trying to cut you off. We'll get your fired
before you get your last big pay. Let's talk about fishery.
Fishy story for me, I got pretty upset by this
Fisheries Minister Shane Jones, a former Sea Lord chair recipient
of donations from the fishing industry. I mean he brought
(23:41):
out this sweeping change to the Fishery Acts, including preventing
the public from assessing footage from cameras on boats. Do
we you might be able to both answer this? Can
the media still get to look at those under or not?
I think he's cut us out as well. I think
everyone's been cut out well.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
I think at one point sheen John specifically said that
he doesn't want people accident accessing it through OIA Official
Information Act requests. So I don't think.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
So, hey, okay, start me up here.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
No Hamis should start you up here, Start me up here.
I need to hear what he has to see so
I can figure out what.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I'm strongly thinking that there's a conflict here.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Sure, sure, okay, what are your thoughts? Well as as
you said in the meeting notes, Shane Jones is a
former sea a former chairman of Sea Lord. And if
you go through his declarations of donations over at least
a decade, he's been getting significant donations from the fishing industry.
He You can accuse Shane Jones of many things, but
(24:39):
you cannot accuse him of not being nakedly supportive of
the fishing industry, nakedly supportive of the mining industry, nakedly
supportive of the farming industry. So if you aren't surprised
by what happened this week, I ask you to pay
attention for the last decade they you know I've had
I've had battles with Shane Jones over over over my
(25:01):
time in journalism. We we got on finding government and
just on the question is it a conflict of interest
if you take money from a sector, well, the Labor
Party institutionally takes money from the unions. Does that mean
that labor is not allowed to involve it involve itself
in industrial relations policy?
Speaker 3 (25:19):
But it doesn't. Doesn't it slightly concern you? And we've
got a lot of talk about that, you know, the
labor stuff and the unions and that. But you know,
Winston Peters gets a lot of money from horse racings,
doesn't he And he's Minister of Racers, So I mean, I.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Be careful here now, he's probably listening.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Something wrong.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I've got something wrong and he has, and he's supportive
of it. The fact is, you know, if you if
you really don't like it, you're invited every three years
not to vote for New Zealand first.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Okay, okay, I get that. I'm still trying to recover
from the thoughts of Change Jones naked.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
I mean I was just going to say, you said
Sheen Jones and naked one too many times for my
liking the Hamish too. Yeah, I mean, for what it's worth,
you know, Change, You make a fair point. Anybody that's
been paying attention knows where Sheen Joeans interests lay in
the same with the unions as well. It comes back
to this argument New Zealand is just too small and
if you want people in charge of a certain sector,
(26:15):
you usually get them from within the sector that they're
lobbying for or have some sort of influence in. So
it's just I don't.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Buy that, don't you. I don't buy that. I just
think it's a straight out conflict. If you're getting money
from an industry and you're getting put into parliament, of
course you're going to fight for that industry.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, you know, the National Party at certain points in
its history has been referred to as the Party of
the farmer yep. And you know, are you are you
suggesting that at any point over the past. You know, however,
whatever the history of the National Party is, that they
shouldn't involve themselves and policies around the primary sector. You know,
it's just too unafforidable, you know, get it. The merits
(26:56):
of the policy, I don't actually the particular policies, I
don't know. But no one, no one should be surprised
that Shane Jones is trying to remove costs for the
fishing industry.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Okay, let's move on to a story that we came
across our desk that I'm sure that you're going to
have some a clear view on a body of a
recent lead deceased Deputy secretary from the Department from Internal Affairs.
His body was brought into the office for the staff
to say goodbye. And it was more than bringing his
body into staff. He was going to go into the
(27:26):
National Library until Brook van Valden found out about and said, hey,
that's not going to happen. You're not closing down the
CAF and the National so they moved it into a
meeting room. This to me, Jason Walls, is a very
weird story.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Oh it is very strange. I mean the first thing
that I thought when I read this story was when
I die, I do not want my body to go
back into the newsroom, because you know, if my colleagues
want to visit me, they can visit me. You know,
I'm not going to be lying in state anywhere. And
I don't over and fleet my opinion of myself that much.
But it just seems so strange, what's going on? Why
(27:58):
would I unless there are some intricacies and some details
here that I'm not proving to you as to why
this had to happen in a workplace. I think it's
deeply strange.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Come on, hey, mus you tell me no, no, I
mean it's an unfortunate situation. It's an unfortunate how it's unfolded.
But it would say I go into the National Library
a bit because there's a cafe attached to it. It's
normally basically empty from what I can see, unless they're
having a function there. When you think about you know,
think about Wellington and think about what government is a
lot of it really is creating a bit of a show.
(28:30):
Why do we have such an incredible Supreme Court so
that you know, when you go in there you feel like, wow,
this is a place where the law has made it serious.
It's solemn. Same with the National Library. What's it for
apart from holding events? This is a person I didn't
I wasn't aware of this person. But they're a senior
person at di A, you know. And and the sad
bit is I assume the family had been promised this
(28:51):
and now so instead of doing that, a decision's made
to take them to some meeting room and do I
A and do it there? Which is I mean, if
it was weird being in the National Library, it's even
weirder being in some random meeting Roman Department of Internal
Affair is Personally, I think maybe it would have been
a situation whether it's where it's better to ask for
forgiveness than permission. They should have let it go through
(29:13):
and then say, okay, we're not doing it again.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Very well put very good counterproduct. I mean, I mean,
you've got beakers.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Is a difference of opinion in our household and and
lots of people. Most I think I think I'm out
of I'm just about out on my own on this one.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
But it still doesn't mean I want to be brought
and put them to the cast because I think it's
bad enough that I have to walk past some of
my ex friends in colleagues photo.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
There will be a parade down Courtney Place.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
But I'm you know, no, it's going to be very
low key. I've already I can promise you it's going
to be very low key.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
The not.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Right, oh okay, hamous Rudiford pronounced wrongly. Can you give
me your hots and knots please.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I've got two hots, Great Ritchie Moore and are coming
home Finally, the other hot it's a explain. I just
think he's an absolutely outstanding player and you know, he
absolutely reached his peak in the World Cup and then unfortunately,
you know, very reasonably for him, he has to make
money for his family and just disappeared overseas. The other
one's a bit more nerdy. There was a survey out
(30:21):
yesterday saying in flesh and expectations are coming down. Reserve
Bank really follow closely follows that and hopefully that that's
another sort of another domino to fall before we get
more interest rates cuts, because it's it's it's obvious for
the world to see that everyone's kind of, you know,
the economy has not kept into life in the way
that you would expect with high commodity prices and relatively
low interest rates, and hopefully they can go lower and
(30:42):
that sort of helps kick things along.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I see, I see the English ones dropped this morning,
so they went down below four or four percent. Jason,
w's your hots and knots well.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
So my knot is my apartment. We're trying to rent
it out at the moment because we're heading to the
Big Smoke in Auckland, and unfortunately we're having some problems
with the Wellington rental market at the moment, God forbid
we try and sell it and take a blood bath
at the stage. So if anybody out there has keen
for an apartment, I'd be absolutely down for that.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
You're I missed my not Okay, hold on, Jace, give
us you're not hot that. I'll give you the number
of the person that sold it to you, and then
yet they might be able to help you go. You're
not hot. Sorry, h Well.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
We've got a new water feature at our house. It's
the patio suddenly sitting under two inches of water and
it's because, for the fourth time this year, the pipes
are bursting on our little street and it's it's just,
you know, I know, Wellington Water's woes have sort of
dropped off the main, dropped off the headlines, but it's
still a problem, certainly a problem where we're living. And
to add insult to injury, it was the water feature
(31:45):
turned up when the rates building.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I'll give you nick Leget's number thank you after the show,
which you'd already have. Sure, guys, thank you very much. Jace.
I've got to say thanks for everything you've done for
me and the show and everything you've done for everything.
You're a great guy, amazing talent, and I wish you
only everything but luck in the future and this stay
in contact. I really have a lot of respect.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure, and my heart would
have been the fact that I've really enjoyed my time
with you and everybody else as z' b and look,
I'm glad that I'm still going to be in media,
so look.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Out great and I will get you back. You were
very good. I enjoyed you. We're going to get you back.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
There's debating the good, the bad, the ugly and everything
in between. Friday face Off with Quinnovic, Wellington's property management experts.
Call eight hundred Quinnovic for more from Wellington Mornings with
Nick Mills. Listen live to news talks It'd be Wellington
from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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