Justin Lester is not ruling out running for Wellington mayor this year - and Nick Leggett and Josie Pagani are convinced he will run. But what are his chances?
Also, Donald Trump was sworn in as the 47th US President this week. What will be the impact of the major decisions of the first few days, and what can we expect over the next four years?
To answer those questions, ChildFund CEO Josie Pagani and Infrastructure NZ CEO Nick Leggett joined Nick Mills for Friday Faceoff.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk Set B dissecting the week sublime and
ridiculous Friday faceoff with Quinovic Property Management, a better rental
experience for all. Call on eight hundred Quinovic person.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
A dozen starts Friday.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Say it's Friday based off and this week we have
former potty to a mayor Nick Leggott and child fun
ceo Joseph Regardi. Good morning to both of you.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Good morning, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
How are we have a good break to start with you? Josie?
Did you have a good break? What did you get
up to?
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Nothing?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
So, yes, very good break.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
You stay at home, stay.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
At home, staycation the best holidays me and you both. Yeah,
just did nothing, gardened, talk, talked rubbish.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Did you get out of out of the Capiti coast?
Speaker 5 (01:08):
No, No, didn't even get out of all?
Speaker 4 (01:11):
No, barely went well, you couldn't go. The weather was
terrible on Christmas Day.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
But yeah, boring as me.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Come on, Nick, I'm the third part of the boring triangle.
We stayed at home. I actually you know it was
like three weeks of continuous southerly's and it.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
Was cold, and it was cold.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You know, I have to say something that the wind
was not as strong and a southerly, so I actually
have come to quite enjoy the southerly. And we had
a bit of a no west east and I was like, no,
I'm over the sort of the wind that just beats
you down. So I came to appreciate Wellington in a
new light over the holiday period. And there's no place
like home. That's why we live here, right, you.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Know what that's like you're running for man?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You know what this was? This was the worst one though, weatherwise,
and I could read I always I always stay on
because that's a busy time and I haven't got so
ire is around.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
We had a couple of were the fire on on,
a couple of I had that heat to go.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
I was doing.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I started work last week as doing zoom calls with
the teams up in Auckland and I've got a jumper
on and my thermals and They're going, what the hell?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
You know?
Speaker 5 (02:15):
It was? It was really cold all right.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Talking about the upcoming elections, because you you alluded to it.
You would have been driving into the show and would
have heard that we've been talking about justin Lester and
the little interview that I did with him yesterday and
the Facebook page he's got Nick Leggett. Now this is
a little bit difficult, not difficult, but I mean you
ran against him, so you know him reasonably. Well it
(02:40):
was him, you ran against him.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, we ran at the for the mayoralty at the
same time. Yes, one obviously Andy was there.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Two on that radea.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Andy, Yeah, Andy wran and half half of Wellington ran.
Actually there are only three votes, that's right. So yeah, look,
I know Justin he is. He's a smart guy. He is,
he's quite clever. And actually I think you know, when
(03:13):
I lost, I said to my supporters, as much as
you can be happy to lose, I knew that I
was hand. I would lost to someone who was competent
and capable, whether he lived up to his skill set.
And that's people had a judgment on that three years later.
I guess for me, Look, if fresh leadership is required
(03:35):
for Wellington, we need someone who has new and better ideas.
And what's gone over the last decade or two right,
Wellington is struggling. There are problems here economically in terms
of growth. Where we sit, what we offer the country,
what our competitive advantages, and I think there's there's some
(03:58):
hunger for straightforward leadership and practical solutions to the problems
we face. And I guess just you know, coming out
with this social media thing about you know, Wellington Alive,
which actually was the name of Mark Blumsky sent a
right ticket twenty five years ago, probably before Justin lived here,
he wouldn't know that. But the problem is that he's
(04:20):
actually almost trying to deny the problem. And I think
Wellingtonians know that we've got challenges. It isn't a bad
thing to name and frame them because we can include
what's positive and why we all live here, right, But.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Can I just hold you there for a second, go
to Josie and I want to come back because there's
something that's like getting in the back of my ear
with this whole thing. Josie, what was your initial thoughts
when you saw the Wellrington Alive Facebook page? Did you
like me and Georgina and a few other people neck
obviously realized, oh there's something and this this is not fun.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
He's clearly standing. But what's the question that Justin is
the answer to. That's the thing I can't work out.
I mean, he's not giving any idea of what he
will do if you look back on his term in
a the Meryalty, you know, I mean Georgina said it. Well,
what did he actually achieve? You know, a rainbow zebra crossing?
(05:13):
He got the let's get moving, let's get Willington moving
debarcle started the cycle way plethora of you know, rash
of bevy of cycle ways, so you know, to then
come up with this sort of slightly nice, meaningless statement
about what is it called living Wellington.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Or Wellington the name of thee as against the other
candidate who's standing on the Wellington Dead.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I mean, it doesn't actually say anything, right, So I
don't I don't think that there's this is not what
we want. We don't want to go backwards. I mean
the guy, I'm sure the guy's competent. You know, he
was a big supporter of You're right, of sports, the Saints,
the Phoenix. I remember him doing good stuff around that.
But you know, we need we need something transformation, or
we need somebody who's going to blow it up basically
(06:03):
start again.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Hold that thought, because I'm going back to the nick
legget here. Listen, everyone tells me and I have not
been there, but you have that it's almost impossible to
get anything really done when you're a first time mayor
that have not Now remember me and you had that
discussion when I was thinking of running for mayor and
you looked at me. This is years and years ago,
and you looked at me and you said, the only
problem you've got, nick, me, was you don't know a
(06:27):
thing about council, so how are you going to run
the whole thing? And you were right, and that was
the turning of it.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, I mean, you know, I'd like to think I'd
say things as they are good, Look, you're at it.
It is the question that everybody voters should be thinking about,
you know, residents of Wellington and around the country, but
also those thinking of running for council. We have had
over the last few decades since local government reform, which
(06:56):
was when I was at primary school, officer creep so
that the staff actually tend to run things more and more.
We have to empower a real leaders if we want
to overcome that who represent communities that vote for them.
And understanding the mechanics of how a council work is
(07:18):
really important. And knowing what your job is and that
you are actually the boss of the staff, not the
other way around. And I just see it in too
many councils the opposite of that occurring, especially here.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Neck I reckon, it's not You're right, it's not. This
is the problem with with Justin Leicester standing up by
himself or whoever else is going to put the name forward.
It's got to be a ticket and it's got to
be a plan. And we don't want vision, we want
a plan, right, I mean how I think it was
the German Chancelly once said when leaders talk about visions,
tell them to go to the doctor. What we want
(07:51):
is a plan. And we had a plan, actually we had.
I ran with my friend Phil Quinn fran Wild fronted
it the amalgamation campaign right where it was looking at
the whole region and going right, what can this region
do that's going to grow businesses, It's going to bring innovation,
that's going to pimp up our tech sector. Put it
(08:12):
out in Patni, put put government, put a government department
out in pot you know or whatever. Right, there was
a whole plan around the region that would have been fantastic.
That was about ten years ago. We've lost that time.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And we don't we don't want machine politicians. Now, the
thing about Justin is he actually he had a counsel
that he had the majority, and he did. He did actually,
I think, effectively have control of the organization, you know,
as the mayor and the governor. The problem was he
didn't do anything with it because I don't I don't
(08:45):
think he had much of a plan. And I think
the thing that I would say for all Justine once again,
he lacks he lacks guts to take a stand.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Okay, because I was going to say he hadn't been
but he wasn't counseled before he became mayor, so he'd
had that period of time that we all say you
need to have.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, he did.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Look that's what I mean. He's got all the fundamentals
and that's you know, far more than a lot of
people that gellect that it.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Would be better and I don't know whether he's doing
this or not, it would be better if he if
he aligned himself with some of the groups that are
gathering around.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
What's the plan for well maybe he would.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
One of maybe, yeah, one of them is the vision
for Wellington. So fran Wild, Kerry Prendergaspa again, you know,
these are names of past days in Wellington. The other
one is being led by the likes of Paul Retti,
Munu and others who another gathering together to go right,
is there anyone else out there? I mean, you know,
very good question. Right, there must be some people out
(09:44):
there who are going, I've got a I've got a
good plan, I've got a good group. I want to
align with.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
This and what's but what are the ideas? And to
Joe's I would say vision, but actually it is about
a plan and you know, part of this is challenging.
So this is why I talk about leadership and guts
because for me and actually Tory Farno, to her credit,
does call people out. She has, she has she has
prepared to take a stand on things, but we actually
(10:10):
need leadership.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
What is she taking a stand on.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
She's taken the government on on things and and she's
and she's made would.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Be good if she put it, made a stand on Willington.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
She's made some some some other good decisions and around infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
But look.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Wellington. The mindset of Wellington. Wellington is a comfy city
and all of a sudden we're not comfy because our
livelihoods are under threat because the economy has gone backwards,
population has gone backwards, government has cut back. What what
are the things that set us apart? Where can we
build to go? To Josie's point, it is a regional
challenge and obviously I was the only mayor in the
(10:49):
region that full throated, full throatedly backed amalgamation along with
fran Wilde. We we have to plan and make decisions
as a region and we need a mayor that can
also tell people when to know you're and sit tight,
you know, Like I'm just give you an example, the
(11:10):
bridge you know over the that we talked about large
over trouble Waters, bridge over troubled Waters into the lagoon.
Like why do Wellingtonians get so exercised for or against?
Why do they want to die on every hill? Like
when you've got a plan, you execute and you make decisions,
you say, look, not all the goodness is going to
come now, It might be five years time. Were unable
(11:33):
to have those discussions. We need a leader who can
reach out both to the left and to the right,
someone who is unencumbered by, in my view, at least
overt party politics. I don't I'd vote for someone who
is not of my political persuasion leader, and there was
accountful assembling around them, could.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
And a group around them. And there are people out
their neck you, people like Paul Retimono, people like you,
people like us.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
There's a lot of people out there.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Who want who want this plan to work, and I've
got a good one.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
We need to have someone put the hand up though.
I mean, it's all very well for all this talent
right now, really really quickly, really quickly, because I've got
to go on an ad break. If the election was
tomorrow and Torri went against Justin Lester, who would win.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I don't care. That's so depressing.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I want.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
I'm redefining the question.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Nick.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
There will be somebody else, somebody, neither of them.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I don't think they're running against ja.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
I don't think they will.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
I think they're doing a deal. And that's the other thing,
is it?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Do you really?
Speaker 4 (12:41):
I do? And I think that just if he's gone
to Tory Faro and said here's the deal, I stand,
you stepped down. I'm not quite sure what's in that
for Torri Faro, but you know, don't do deals if
you have I don't know. Maybe he hasn't.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
But the point is we need.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
You don't make comments like that, Josie, unless you've heard something,
you do not make comments like Laura.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
You hear a lot of things, they're not all true,
So I accept that. But the point is we need
we need someone. If Justin's going to come up with
a plan, I'll rethink my view of him if he's
going to come up with something rather than keep Wellington alive.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
You think he'll run, yes or not?
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:17):
I think he's right.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
I mean you don't.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I don't have a Facebook page called Wellington Alive, do you, Nick? Oh?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yes, I think he's running. But I don't think that
Tory will run.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I mean you think, but that's Green and Labors. That's
like me and you.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
The other problem is Wellington is decoupled from the rest
of the country. Right, it's voted for Green MP's, it's
voted for a Green mayor and Tory Farno. It's made
a mistake in that.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
I think.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I mean, you can't have your capital city decoupled from
the rest of the country, which just voted for a
national coalition government with New Zealand First and Acts.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
So what I'm getting from you guys is that Greens
think they've lost. I mean, if Green's are going to
save Tory is going to Stem step down and we're
going to back justin, the Greens must feel that they
have haven't got the the mandate to keep leading. I'm
asking you both.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
On that week. That will be a choice. I mean,
that will be a choice that they have to make.
I mean I would have said that a Green candidate
if you think, I mean Green's won, wrong, Attai and
you know Julian jenta One wrong Atta Tamotha, Paul One.
Well in central the Greens are in pole position. If
they choose, they won't want to give that up.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
There's a bit of a reshuffle, wasn't it. Prime Minister
came back from his holiday. Didn't look that suntan, but
he looked refreshed and he said, Shane RITTI sorry, you're gone,
by gone as Health Minister, replaced by Simeon Brown. Transport's
gone from Simeon Brown to Chris Bishop, Melissa Ly sorry, Melissa,
(14:43):
you're out gone. Economic Growth portfolio given to Nikola Willis.
It's really kind of I don't know, strange changes. Strange
changes for me. Jose mcganny, what did you make of
these changes.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Well, the big focus is growth, right, which does beg
the question why a sort of non performing minister like
Melissa ly Or do you respect had the economic Development
portfolio last year? Now it's gone to Nicola Willis, So
it's gone why up the chain to number two? And
it's the big big it's the big, big message of
(15:18):
the announcements yesterday and this reshuffle, right, and that's the
right thing right, read the room. We're all worried about
the lack of growth.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And for anyone who buys into the degrowth gibberish around
things like donut economics and circular economy, those days are done, right.
I mean, there's no way that people are going to
listen to anyone who thinks we're better off by being
worse off. So we want growth, right, we want higher wages,
we want money to spend on houses and schools and
(15:50):
you know, just basically investing in the things that will
make us money as a country. So they've read the
room and they've got the right at last, they've got
the right message. I'm just not sure when you look
at the things that came out, and this is why
the reshuffle happened.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Next.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
So it's all really relevant, right the things that came
out from the government. What are their big ideas for growth?
A restructure of science and research, and you're thinking, hold
on a minute. We had Jacinder Ardyn's Year of delivery,
now we've got National's year of growth. They both both
prioritized big restructures. So labor did health. What happened. We
(16:26):
spent a year mired in strategies and frameworks and organograms.
Now we're going to do the same thing with science
and research. So I think they've made an error in
thinking that you can roll out things like more concerts
in Eden Park it's a growth idea. I mean Taylor
Swift coming to New Zealand, great, that would be fantastic.
That's a night out. That's not a growth plan. So,
(16:48):
you know, more concerts in need and park, restructuring a
whole sector. We're going to spend a year middling around
making HR policies and organograms. We're not going to achieve
any growth in that year. I think they would have
been better to go never mind the organizational changes, never
mind all the new agencies and stuff like that. Let's
focus on would technology, biotech volume to value and milk, powder, nutraceuticals.
(17:13):
Let's do one thing and do it really really well
this year and get some runs on the board and
next year. This time next year, if we feel a
bit better off as New Zealanders, we might go Okay,
we'll give you guys another go.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Tell me Nick Leggett what your thoughts are on Simmy
and Brown taking over health.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Simim Brown is a competent minister and he has you know,
the thing about health is it is a management job,
and I think Simeon is displayed. I mean, it's going
to be a challenge for.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Am, but you've just lost him as your man.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, the only consolation to losing him a Minister of
Transport is that we now have Chris Bishop who can
combine transport and infrastructure together.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
So that's actually really good.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
It's a really smart it's a really smart thing for
them to do, and it gives Chris Bishop some tangible deliverables.
He's doing really important system stuff. And I would say,
in defense of yesterday, the thing is it's not going
to give us any immediate what people want as a
sense that there's some hope and there's some growth. They
can feel themselves having a bit more a charm bank
(18:18):
and that there might be a you know, they might
get a promotion, they might get a new job, or
you know that they're not that their budgets are not
going backwards. That is the immediate challenge for the government.
And I agree with Josie and a couple of two
or three winning areas. You know John Key had a
cycle way much maligned, but then he had referendum and
nobody also did ultra fast broadback, yes, and roads of
(18:39):
national significance. There need to be some things to hang
on what the government are.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Can you I've just got to go to an airbreak.
Can you just give me what you really think whether
you think Simmy and Brown will make a change in health?
Do you think he will actually do something?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So I do?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I mean what do we need? We need jobs, we
need growth, and we need health and the health people
want the system to deliver when they need it. We
want old hospitals replaced. We want primary healthcare to be
number one because prevention is better than cure. And Simmy
and Brown has the system understanding to be able, I think,
(19:13):
to really effectively manage it. But it is going to
be a challenge.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
The two major parties have met for the first time
this year, with speeches from both leaders, including the State
of the Nation's speech with Christopher Luxen, where he said
New Zealand has an attitude of saying no, Nick Leggett,
do we have an attitude of saying no? I kind
of think we do.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Oh we do? And Wellington doubles down on that. I
think he's got it absolutely right. I think the way
to I think that the biggest change that New Zealand
needs if we're going to get competitive, if we're going
to become more productive, if we're going to market ourselves
to the world. It's a mindset issue. It comes from
(19:52):
being distant and small, and unfortunately it's often the comfy
people with a nice home and a livelihood that dictate
and keep New Zealand conservative because they're safe. The vast
majority of people actually need the country to grow. We
(20:13):
need better jobs, we need to take technological advancements to
develop the economy. But the country needs and this is
where Christopher Luxen needs to come into the picture. The
country needs an idea long term of where it's headed
and why, and then a bit of that plan how
do we get there? But what the govern announced yesterday
with the sort of the jug up international promotion of
(20:37):
New Zealand is good. They modeled that on Ireland and Singapore,
both countries that you know, in terms of New Zealand
pales into insignificance.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
So I'm going to say both those countries are just
got the big red carpet.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Island's got this exactly, that's it. But Ireland's got the
same population as us. They're the most productive and most
educated country in the world. That's only taken them forty
to fifty years. We too could achieve that, but we've
got to aspire to something and we have to say
yes to opportunities. It just feels sometimes like everybody's you know,
(21:09):
it's all no, no, no, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I mean we're fast becoming a country where, you know,
we focus on herbal remedies and candles, which actually reminds
me of a good joke that I heard the other day.
What did the Greens use before electricity? Candles? I got
that right, Yes, you know what I mean, maybe the
(21:36):
other way around?
Speaker 5 (21:36):
What are these for candles? Electricity?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Yes, the other way way round? It sounds God, thank god,
my husband's not listening, he says, I'm terrible at telling jokes.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I'm not going to stand with you.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
We are we are.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Sort of heading down the kind of de growth road,
and we're all worried about it. I'm worried about my kids.
Got three kids, young adults. Two of them are already overseas,
the other one's heading there. So I want them to
come back, you know, so.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
They won't come back. Well it's boiler, they won't come back.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
No, I just sort I'm worried about Nick, and I
think a lot of New Zealanders are. But if you
look at other countries like South Korea or Singapore, we
always talk about these are small countries, especially Singapore, similar
to US, Okay, position differently geographically. But what did they do?
And I'm really sorry to see the Paul Callahan, the
(22:26):
Callahan Innovation Unit go, because Paul Callahan is one New
Zealander and he tragically died in twenty twelve who had
a theory about growth and he was right. And I'm
not hearing from the government an alternative theory that gets
me excited. But Callahan said very clearly, we need one
hundred more frontiers and Fisher and Pichael healthcarees. We don't
(22:49):
need tourism. We don't need more people, do think the tongue,
but we don't need more low quality tourism. We don't
need to be sending more people on the tong arera crossing.
We've got to be more ambitious than that.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Last week's Taxpayer Union Caurier poll showed Labor ahead of
National and it was National's worst poll. This is going
to be really weeks. I've got to go to a
break worst poll in government since two weeks before Jenny
Shipley lost the nineteen ninety nine election. Quickly from both
of you, is National in trouble? In the crowd?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I think I think any government, any party governing in
a Western democracy now where the economy is going backwards
or is not performing, is in trouble. I think that
the way we're get the best signal we're going to
get to That is what happens to Anthony Albanese's government
in the election, the federal election in Australia coming up
(23:42):
in the next.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Well, he's gone and the most horrible man in the
world is going to be Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
There No, but does if he survive he won't survive. Well,
let's see, I don't know. I mean, look, there's over
eighteen months ago until the next election here. Yeah, we
can't a long time, but they need to show some
economic recovery.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
She goes to really quickly.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Yeah, Luxon, this is his attempt to step up as
a visionary prime minister with a with a with a
plan for growth. I hope it works because they are
in trouble. Labour needs to realize, though, that it's not
a pole that is in support of them. It's a
pole that's going not in support of national Trump.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I know you both want to talk about this for ever.
Donald Trump has sworn and as a US president on
Tuesday and has signed a raft of executive orders. Okay,
Josie Bagari, what are you thinking? You know so much?
You both know so much about American politics.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Yeah, but this is a whole new phase, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
I mean, how often have you seen a new president
of the United States of America turn up to his
inauguration with a big fat sharpie pen and sign you know,
hundreds of executive orders. I mean it's kind of like
watching something out of the Rocky Horror Show, isn't it?
Where you can't look away. Someone once described his rallies
as pro wrestling in hell. You know, they're great fun.
(24:57):
They look great fun. But you can see why people
enjoy them. But man's who knows where it's going to
go next. And then you've got all these tech bros.
This is the new thing this election, you know, Elon
Musk and Mark Elon Musk channeling some kind of top
gear meets Goldfinger vibe. I mean, looking and behaving very oddly.
Mark Zuckerberg, who used to look like a sort of
(25:19):
dead eyed serial killer with his you know, Julius Caesar haircut,
now looks like some kind of you've got a perme.
He looks like some kind of rapper with gold chains
and baggy T shirts. I mean, what the hell, what
are these guys doing. They're sucking up, that's what they're doing.
So it's feeling a little bit like a monarchy, isn't it.
He's behaving like a king, you know, even parading the dynasty,
(25:41):
the dynasty all the time. The family are there in every.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Shot, and they're also uncomfortable, none of them apart from
one son who thinks he's you know, the oldest son.
He thinks he's part of the show. Yeah, everyone else
think it feels like and the hair.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
And it's all very eighties.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
It all feels very so it's fascinating to watch. But
the things that stood out to me this week is
the you know, I'm shocked, and Biden unfortunately doesn't have
a leg to stand on on this. The pardons, the
pardons of the January sixth conspirators, that the people who
violently attacked the police at the capitol. It seems extraordinary
(26:19):
to me that they would just do a blanket pardon
of everybody, even the people who attacked the police. I
mean even you know, even the joker is less pro
crime than that.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
You know, it's like, what the heck, what have you
made of it?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Nick, Well, we're in uncharted territory, aren't we. This is
a person that lost the presidency. We thought after January
the twentieth that he would be twenty one, that he
would be gone from the political map. He's back elected democratically.
He won more votes than Kamala Harris. Not the aberration
(26:58):
actually that people have tried to make it out. Yeah,
the culture war stuff was a subplot, but actually, like
just we were talking before the economy, Americans felt poorer
and actually I've had to sort of you know, it
happened quite quickly. Come to grips with the fact that
Trump's back and Americans a lot of them are very
(27:20):
desperate and voted for him, and good people vote for Trump.
And actually Trump won't be all bad. I say that
to someone who is not a Trump fan. But there
will be some reasonable stuff that come out of it.
I'm worried, though, obviously about the bad stuff. You think
about tariffs, You think about how that could wreck the economy,
the division. You know, one of those January six people
(27:41):
who have come out of jail has already been rearrested
for some sort of crime. I read, you know, like,
we're not talking about good but it's the assault on
democracy that to me was the big concern. And what
happens at the end of this four years because he
will want to run again if he can.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
He can't, but he right very quickly before we go
to Hotson, Lot's take a break and go to Hotson Knots.
I came out and said throw away line during the
show that I get really brassed off going through Mount
Victoria Tunnel and people toot their horns and the place
when nuts the text machine blew up had to put
a new computer and people were so anti me. Come on,
(28:21):
tell me both with you. Because I'm now studying the
old bugger, I'm starting to characterize people on whether they
toot or not.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Tutor, and the reason I'm a tutor is that it
backs me. I get this bolt of joy. It's like,
oh look, we're all united in this little kind of
secret joke that Wellingtonians have that we toot in the tunnel.
And then you get little patterns where you toot a little,
you know, and then something. It's wonderful. It's a joyful thing.
That's shame on you.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Nick.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Tell me I don't tooot when I'm by myself, but
I do come under pressure from my wife and children
to toot. The problem is the kids. They want toot
in the Terrorace Tunnel and all the North and all
the Corry Tunnel. But uh look and remember you know, like,
was we toot for Phyllis Simon's, of course, was murdered
by her much older lover back in about nineteen thirty one.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
That's how did you know that? You didn't know?
Speaker 5 (29:13):
That is how it started?
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Did you not know that, Josie, I did not know that.
I didn't know that pre Tuesday either, but I found
out on Tuesday.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
And she was she was she was buried alive.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Very tragic.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Oh, pregnant and pregnant. Stop it head overhead with the pole.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Your lover was but was was was on the job
and he was working to build the tunnel and then
and that's an awful story. But we that's why we
toot the memory of her.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Well that I'm choosing even more.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Now now, Yeah, take a short break in mine. Not
hot as people that in the tunnel. I'll do it
already the Friday face.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Hot than.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Joseph Beganni neck leged you who wants to start with
their hots and knots? You both look about it as
excited as well. My mother in law twenty years ago.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
Good lord, when you got married. Yeah, he cried and cried.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Well, my hot actually is we had this amazing blue
phosphorescence or plankton or something up in coppody at Parapraam Beach.
If anyone in the whole of company turned up in
their cars loved it. It was wonderful. It looked beautiful.
It's it was amazing. We just if you walked on
the sand, it was like being an Avatar just blue
(30:28):
blue Blue at the footprints min not hot Neck. And
this is a bit of a plea. Really, these are
hard times right for business. They're limen hard for charities.
And I run a charity called ChildFund and we're working
with kids in the Pacific who are dying in some
cases from not having clean water, and we are really
struggling for money because people are hard up. I get it,
(30:51):
they're really hard up. And you think, well, you know,
we're going to look after kids in New Zealand, but
the Pacific is our shared home. It's the region that
we call home to. We have kids in the Pacific
who are stunted because they're not getting the right food
and they're dying of not getting clean water. So anyone
wants to help us out, my god, we need that.
All the help we can get ChildFund dot dot New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Okay, good luck with that, and I'll put that on
our Facebook page as well to let people know. Thanks
Nick Leggett, you're hot not.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
By hot as well. Full disclosure our chair Wellington Water.
You've talked to me. You know, Wellington Water's had some
tough times and actually there's some good news and that
is that the we've reduced the leak backlog. Wellington loses
forty percent of its water leaks, but those leaks, those
reactive leaks. The councils gave us a lot more money
a year ago and we've cut that back by about
(31:40):
seventy five percent repaired.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
And that's the pipes that are leaking, the pipes.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
It's the water pipes. Now it's not the full We
need to replace the pipes, but that will come with
water reform and they'll be hopefully more money to do
that with a new water entity that will replace Wellington Water.
But you know, we've replaced our We've fixed thousands of
leaks last year and Wellington hasn't had the threat of
a water shortage this summer. So I think that's a
(32:05):
that's a good used for the region. People have been
great as well and conserving the water, watching what they use.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It has rained every bloody day, well I mean we.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Have been helped by that. But also actually even if
it hadn't rained as much, we still would have been okay.
Because we've we've reduced what we use.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
It does feel like it's getting better.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah, that's it, and I don't actually have it not
this week.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
I'm just going to be You're Wellington Vitality.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
What is it called Wellington Alive?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah, well that's it.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I'm being positive about well.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Can I ask you a serious question? Are you going
to run for mayor of Wellington?
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Can I give you a serious answer? Not on your life?
Speaker 5 (32:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (32:47):
Unless no no steps forward.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
I need to step.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
In to try. Gave up people text me all the
time next time you're talking. Can ask you I said,
I've asked him. I'm blue in the face. He's not
going to do it unless they you know, stunning star
playing a lot of money. Thank you both very much.
It was great to have you both on our first
show of the year. Let's have many more of them
during the year. Good luck and enjoy the rest of
(33:14):
the summer and we'll talk soon into you.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Have a good weekend.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I'll do my very best.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk Set B dissecting the week sublime and
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experience for all. Call on eight hundred Quinovic person.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
A dozen starts Friday.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Say it's Friday based off and this week we have
former potty to a mayor Nick Leggott and child fun
ceo Joseph Regardi. Good morning to both of you.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Good morning, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
How are we have a good break to start with you? Josie?
Did you have a good break? What did you get
up to?
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Nothing?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
So, yes, very good break.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
You stay at home, stay.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
At home, staycation the best holidays me and you both. Yeah,
just did nothing, gardened, talk, talked rubbish.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Did you get out of out of the Capiti coast?
Speaker 5 (01:08):
No, No, didn't even get out of all?
Speaker 4 (01:11):
No, barely went well, you couldn't go. The weather was
terrible on Christmas Day.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
But yeah, boring as me.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Come on, Nick, I'm the third part of the boring triangle.
We stayed at home. I actually you know it was
like three weeks of continuous southerly's and it.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
Was cold, and it was cold.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You know, I have to say something that the wind
was not as strong and a southerly, so I actually
have come to quite enjoy the southerly. And we had
a bit of a no west east and I was like, no,
I'm over the sort of the wind that just beats
you down. So I came to appreciate Wellington in a
new light over the holiday period. And there's no place
like home. That's why we live here, right, you.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Know what that's like you're running for man?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You know what this was? This was the worst one though, weatherwise,
and I could read I always I always stay on
because that's a busy time and I haven't got so
ire is around.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
We had a couple of were the fire on on,
a couple of I had that heat to go.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
I was doing.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I started work last week as doing zoom calls with
the teams up in Auckland and I've got a jumper
on and my thermals and They're going, what the hell?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
You know?
Speaker 5 (02:15):
It was? It was really cold all right.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Talking about the upcoming elections, because you you alluded to it.
You would have been driving into the show and would
have heard that we've been talking about justin Lester and
the little interview that I did with him yesterday and
the Facebook page he's got Nick Leggett. Now this is
a little bit difficult, not difficult, but I mean you
ran against him, so you know him reasonably. Well it
(02:40):
was him, you ran against him.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, we ran at the for the mayoralty at the
same time. Yes, one obviously Andy was there.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Two on that radea.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Andy, Yeah, Andy wran and half half of Wellington ran.
Actually there are only three votes, that's right. So yeah, look,
I know Justin he is. He's a smart guy. He is,
he's quite clever. And actually I think you know, when
(03:13):
I lost, I said to my supporters, as much as
you can be happy to lose, I knew that I
was hand. I would lost to someone who was competent
and capable, whether he lived up to his skill set.
And that's people had a judgment on that three years later.
I guess for me, Look, if fresh leadership is required
(03:35):
for Wellington, we need someone who has new and better ideas.
And what's gone over the last decade or two right,
Wellington is struggling. There are problems here economically in terms
of growth. Where we sit, what we offer the country,
what our competitive advantages, and I think there's there's some
(03:58):
hunger for straightforward leadership and practical solutions to the problems
we face. And I guess just you know, coming out
with this social media thing about you know, Wellington Alive,
which actually was the name of Mark Blumsky sent a
right ticket twenty five years ago, probably before Justin lived here,
he wouldn't know that. But the problem is that he's
(04:20):
actually almost trying to deny the problem. And I think
Wellingtonians know that we've got challenges. It isn't a bad
thing to name and frame them because we can include
what's positive and why we all live here, right, But.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Can I just hold you there for a second, go
to Josie and I want to come back because there's
something that's like getting in the back of my ear
with this whole thing. Josie, what was your initial thoughts
when you saw the Wellrington Alive Facebook page? Did you
like me and Georgina and a few other people neck
obviously realized, oh there's something and this this is not fun.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
He's clearly standing. But what's the question that Justin is
the answer to. That's the thing I can't work out.
I mean, he's not giving any idea of what he
will do if you look back on his term in
a the Meryalty, you know, I mean Georgina said it. Well,
what did he actually achieve? You know, a rainbow zebra crossing?
(05:13):
He got the let's get moving, let's get Willington moving
debarcle started the cycle way plethora of you know, rash
of bevy of cycle ways, so you know, to then
come up with this sort of slightly nice, meaningless statement
about what is it called living Wellington.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Or Wellington the name of thee as against the other
candidate who's standing on the Wellington Dead.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I mean, it doesn't actually say anything, right, So I
don't I don't think that there's this is not what
we want. We don't want to go backwards. I mean
the guy, I'm sure the guy's competent. You know, he
was a big supporter of You're right, of sports, the Saints,
the Phoenix. I remember him doing good stuff around that.
But you know, we need we need something transformation, or
we need somebody who's going to blow it up basically
(06:03):
start again.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Hold that thought, because I'm going back to the nick
legget here. Listen, everyone tells me and I have not
been there, but you have that it's almost impossible to
get anything really done when you're a first time mayor
that have not Now remember me and you had that
discussion when I was thinking of running for mayor and
you looked at me. This is years and years ago,
and you looked at me and you said, the only
problem you've got, nick, me, was you don't know a
(06:27):
thing about council, so how are you going to run
the whole thing? And you were right, and that was
the turning of it.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, I mean, you know, I'd like to think I'd
say things as they are good, Look, you're at it.
It is the question that everybody voters should be thinking about,
you know, residents of Wellington and around the country, but
also those thinking of running for council. We have had
over the last few decades since local government reform, which
(06:56):
was when I was at primary school, officer creep so
that the staff actually tend to run things more and more.
We have to empower a real leaders if we want
to overcome that who represent communities that vote for them.
And understanding the mechanics of how a council work is
(07:18):
really important. And knowing what your job is and that
you are actually the boss of the staff, not the
other way around. And I just see it in too
many councils the opposite of that occurring, especially here.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Neck I reckon, it's not You're right, it's not. This
is the problem with with Justin Leicester standing up by
himself or whoever else is going to put the name forward.
It's got to be a ticket and it's got to
be a plan. And we don't want vision, we want
a plan, right, I mean how I think it was
the German Chancelly once said when leaders talk about visions,
tell them to go to the doctor. What we want
(07:51):
is a plan. And we had a plan, actually we had.
I ran with my friend Phil Quinn fran Wild fronted
it the amalgamation campaign right where it was looking at
the whole region and going right, what can this region
do that's going to grow businesses, It's going to bring innovation,
that's going to pimp up our tech sector. Put it
(08:12):
out in Patni, put put government, put a government department
out in pot you know or whatever. Right, there was
a whole plan around the region that would have been fantastic.
That was about ten years ago. We've lost that time.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And we don't we don't want machine politicians. Now, the
thing about Justin is he actually he had a counsel
that he had the majority, and he did. He did actually,
I think, effectively have control of the organization, you know,
as the mayor and the governor. The problem was he
didn't do anything with it because I don't I don't
(08:45):
think he had much of a plan. And I think
the thing that I would say for all Justine once again,
he lacks he lacks guts to take a stand.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Okay, because I was going to say he hadn't been
but he wasn't counseled before he became mayor, so he'd
had that period of time that we all say you
need to have.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, he did.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Look that's what I mean. He's got all the fundamentals
and that's you know, far more than a lot of
people that gellect that it.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Would be better and I don't know whether he's doing
this or not, it would be better if he if
he aligned himself with some of the groups that are
gathering around.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
What's the plan for well maybe he would.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
One of maybe, yeah, one of them is the vision
for Wellington. So fran Wild, Kerry Prendergaspa again, you know,
these are names of past days in Wellington. The other
one is being led by the likes of Paul Retti,
Munu and others who another gathering together to go right,
is there anyone else out there? I mean, you know,
very good question. Right, there must be some people out
(09:44):
there who are going, I've got a I've got a
good plan, I've got a good group. I want to
align with.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
This and what's but what are the ideas? And to
Joe's I would say vision, but actually it is about
a plan and you know, part of this is challenging.
So this is why I talk about leadership and guts
because for me and actually Tory Farno, to her credit,
does call people out. She has, she has she has
prepared to take a stand on things, but we actually
(10:10):
need leadership.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
What is she taking a stand on.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
She's taken the government on on things and and she's
and she's made would.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Be good if she put it, made a stand on Willington.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
She's made some some some other good decisions and around infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
But look.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Wellington. The mindset of Wellington. Wellington is a comfy city
and all of a sudden we're not comfy because our
livelihoods are under threat because the economy has gone backwards,
population has gone backwards, government has cut back. What what
are the things that set us apart? Where can we
build to go? To Josie's point, it is a regional
challenge and obviously I was the only mayor in the
(10:49):
region that full throated, full throatedly backed amalgamation along with
fran Wilde. We we have to plan and make decisions
as a region and we need a mayor that can
also tell people when to know you're and sit tight,
you know, Like I'm just give you an example, the
(11:10):
bridge you know over the that we talked about large
over trouble Waters, bridge over troubled Waters into the lagoon.
Like why do Wellingtonians get so exercised for or against?
Why do they want to die on every hill? Like
when you've got a plan, you execute and you make decisions,
you say, look, not all the goodness is going to
come now, It might be five years time. Were unable
(11:33):
to have those discussions. We need a leader who can
reach out both to the left and to the right,
someone who is unencumbered by, in my view, at least
overt party politics. I don't I'd vote for someone who
is not of my political persuasion leader, and there was
accountful assembling around them, could.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
And a group around them. And there are people out
their neck you, people like Paul Retimono, people like you,
people like us.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
There's a lot of people out there.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Who want who want this plan to work, and I've
got a good one.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
We need to have someone put the hand up though.
I mean, it's all very well for all this talent
right now, really really quickly, really quickly, because I've got
to go on an ad break. If the election was
tomorrow and Torri went against Justin Lester, who would win.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I don't care. That's so depressing.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I want.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
I'm redefining the question.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Nick.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
There will be somebody else, somebody, neither of them.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I don't think they're running against ja.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
I don't think they will.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
I think they're doing a deal. And that's the other thing,
is it?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Do you really?
Speaker 4 (12:41):
I do? And I think that just if he's gone
to Tory Faro and said here's the deal, I stand,
you stepped down. I'm not quite sure what's in that
for Torri Faro, but you know, don't do deals if
you have I don't know. Maybe he hasn't.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
But the point is we need.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
You don't make comments like that, Josie, unless you've heard something,
you do not make comments like Laura.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
You hear a lot of things, they're not all true,
So I accept that. But the point is we need
we need someone. If Justin's going to come up with
a plan, I'll rethink my view of him if he's
going to come up with something rather than keep Wellington alive.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
You think he'll run, yes or not?
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:17):
I think he's right.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
I mean you don't.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I don't have a Facebook page called Wellington Alive, do you, Nick? Oh?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yes, I think he's running. But I don't think that
Tory will run.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I mean you think, but that's Green and Labors. That's
like me and you.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
The other problem is Wellington is decoupled from the rest
of the country. Right, it's voted for Green MP's, it's
voted for a Green mayor and Tory Farno. It's made
a mistake in that.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
I think.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I mean, you can't have your capital city decoupled from
the rest of the country, which just voted for a
national coalition government with New Zealand First and Acts.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
So what I'm getting from you guys is that Greens
think they've lost. I mean, if Green's are going to
save Tory is going to Stem step down and we're
going to back justin, the Greens must feel that they
have haven't got the the mandate to keep leading. I'm
asking you both.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
On that week. That will be a choice. I mean,
that will be a choice that they have to make.
I mean I would have said that a Green candidate
if you think, I mean Green's won, wrong, Attai and
you know Julian jenta One wrong Atta Tamotha, Paul One.
Well in central the Greens are in pole position. If
they choose, they won't want to give that up.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
There's a bit of a reshuffle, wasn't it. Prime Minister
came back from his holiday. Didn't look that suntan, but
he looked refreshed and he said, Shane RITTI sorry, you're gone,
by gone as Health Minister, replaced by Simeon Brown. Transport's
gone from Simeon Brown to Chris Bishop, Melissa Ly sorry, Melissa,
(14:43):
you're out gone. Economic Growth portfolio given to Nikola Willis.
It's really kind of I don't know, strange changes. Strange
changes for me. Jose mcganny, what did you make of
these changes.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Well, the big focus is growth, right, which does beg
the question why a sort of non performing minister like
Melissa ly Or do you respect had the economic Development
portfolio last year? Now it's gone to Nicola Willis, So
it's gone why up the chain to number two? And
it's the big big it's the big, big message of
(15:18):
the announcements yesterday and this reshuffle, right, and that's the
right thing right, read the room. We're all worried about
the lack of growth.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And for anyone who buys into the degrowth gibberish around
things like donut economics and circular economy, those days are done, right.
I mean, there's no way that people are going to
listen to anyone who thinks we're better off by being
worse off. So we want growth, right, we want higher wages,
we want money to spend on houses and schools and
(15:50):
you know, just basically investing in the things that will
make us money as a country. So they've read the
room and they've got the right at last, they've got
the right message. I'm just not sure when you look
at the things that came out, and this is why
the reshuffle happened.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Next.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
So it's all really relevant, right the things that came
out from the government. What are their big ideas for growth?
A restructure of science and research, and you're thinking, hold
on a minute. We had Jacinder Ardyn's Year of delivery,
now we've got National's year of growth. They both both
prioritized big restructures. So labor did health. What happened. We
(16:26):
spent a year mired in strategies and frameworks and organograms.
Now we're going to do the same thing with science
and research. So I think they've made an error in
thinking that you can roll out things like more concerts
in Eden Park it's a growth idea. I mean Taylor
Swift coming to New Zealand, great, that would be fantastic.
That's a night out. That's not a growth plan. So,
(16:48):
you know, more concerts in need and park, restructuring a
whole sector. We're going to spend a year middling around
making HR policies and organograms. We're not going to achieve
any growth in that year. I think they would have
been better to go never mind the organizational changes, never
mind all the new agencies and stuff like that. Let's
focus on would technology, biotech volume to value and milk, powder, nutraceuticals.
(17:13):
Let's do one thing and do it really really well
this year and get some runs on the board and
next year. This time next year, if we feel a
bit better off as New Zealanders, we might go Okay,
we'll give you guys another go.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Tell me Nick Leggett what your thoughts are on Simmy
and Brown taking over health.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Simim Brown is a competent minister and he has you know,
the thing about health is it is a management job,
and I think Simeon is displayed. I mean, it's going
to be a challenge for.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Am, but you've just lost him as your man.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, the only consolation to losing him a Minister of
Transport is that we now have Chris Bishop who can
combine transport and infrastructure together.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
So that's actually really good.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
It's a really smart it's a really smart thing for
them to do, and it gives Chris Bishop some tangible deliverables.
He's doing really important system stuff. And I would say,
in defense of yesterday, the thing is it's not going
to give us any immediate what people want as a
sense that there's some hope and there's some growth. They
can feel themselves having a bit more a charm bank
(18:18):
and that there might be a you know, they might
get a promotion, they might get a new job, or
you know that they're not that their budgets are not
going backwards. That is the immediate challenge for the government.
And I agree with Josie and a couple of two
or three winning areas. You know John Key had a
cycle way much maligned, but then he had referendum and
nobody also did ultra fast broadback, yes, and roads of
(18:39):
national significance. There need to be some things to hang
on what the government are.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Can you I've just got to go to an airbreak.
Can you just give me what you really think whether
you think Simmy and Brown will make a change in health?
Do you think he will actually do something?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So I do?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I mean what do we need? We need jobs, we
need growth, and we need health and the health people
want the system to deliver when they need it. We
want old hospitals replaced. We want primary healthcare to be
number one because prevention is better than cure. And Simmy
and Brown has the system understanding to be able, I think,
(19:13):
to really effectively manage it. But it is going to
be a challenge.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
The two major parties have met for the first time
this year, with speeches from both leaders, including the State
of the Nation's speech with Christopher Luxen, where he said
New Zealand has an attitude of saying no, Nick Leggett,
do we have an attitude of saying no? I kind
of think we do.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Oh we do? And Wellington doubles down on that. I
think he's got it absolutely right. I think the way
to I think that the biggest change that New Zealand
needs if we're going to get competitive, if we're going
to become more productive, if we're going to market ourselves
to the world. It's a mindset issue. It comes from
(19:52):
being distant and small, and unfortunately it's often the comfy
people with a nice home and a livelihood that dictate
and keep New Zealand conservative because they're safe. The vast
majority of people actually need the country to grow. We
(20:13):
need better jobs, we need to take technological advancements to
develop the economy. But the country needs and this is
where Christopher Luxen needs to come into the picture. The
country needs an idea long term of where it's headed
and why, and then a bit of that plan how
do we get there? But what the govern announced yesterday
with the sort of the jug up international promotion of
(20:37):
New Zealand is good. They modeled that on Ireland and Singapore,
both countries that you know, in terms of New Zealand
pales into insignificance.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
So I'm going to say both those countries are just
got the big red carpet.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Island's got this exactly, that's it. But Ireland's got the
same population as us. They're the most productive and most
educated country in the world. That's only taken them forty
to fifty years. We too could achieve that, but we've
got to aspire to something and we have to say
yes to opportunities. It just feels sometimes like everybody's you know,
(21:09):
it's all no, no, no, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I mean we're fast becoming a country where, you know,
we focus on herbal remedies and candles, which actually reminds
me of a good joke that I heard the other day.
What did the Greens use before electricity? Candles? I got
that right, Yes, you know what I mean, maybe the
(21:36):
other way around?
Speaker 5 (21:36):
What are these for candles? Electricity?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Yes, the other way way round? It sounds God, thank god,
my husband's not listening, he says, I'm terrible at telling jokes.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I'm not going to stand with you.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
We are we are.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Sort of heading down the kind of de growth road,
and we're all worried about it. I'm worried about my kids.
Got three kids, young adults. Two of them are already overseas,
the other one's heading there. So I want them to
come back, you know, so.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
They won't come back. Well it's boiler, they won't come back.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
No, I just sort I'm worried about Nick, and I
think a lot of New Zealanders are. But if you
look at other countries like South Korea or Singapore, we
always talk about these are small countries, especially Singapore, similar
to US, Okay, position differently geographically. But what did they do?
And I'm really sorry to see the Paul Callahan, the
(22:26):
Callahan Innovation Unit go, because Paul Callahan is one New
Zealander and he tragically died in twenty twelve who had
a theory about growth and he was right. And I'm
not hearing from the government an alternative theory that gets
me excited. But Callahan said very clearly, we need one
hundred more frontiers and Fisher and Pichael healthcarees. We don't
(22:49):
need tourism. We don't need more people, do think the tongue,
but we don't need more low quality tourism. We don't
need to be sending more people on the tong arera crossing.
We've got to be more ambitious than that.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Last week's Taxpayer Union Caurier poll showed Labor ahead of
National and it was National's worst poll. This is going
to be really weeks. I've got to go to a
break worst poll in government since two weeks before Jenny
Shipley lost the nineteen ninety nine election. Quickly from both
of you, is National in trouble? In the crowd?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I think I think any government, any party governing in
a Western democracy now where the economy is going backwards
or is not performing, is in trouble. I think that
the way we're get the best signal we're going to
get to That is what happens to Anthony Albanese's government
in the election, the federal election in Australia coming up
(23:42):
in the next.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Well, he's gone and the most horrible man in the
world is going to be Prime minister.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
There No, but does if he survive he won't survive. Well,
let's see, I don't know. I mean, look, there's over
eighteen months ago until the next election here. Yeah, we
can't a long time, but they need to show some
economic recovery.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
She goes to really quickly.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Yeah, Luxon, this is his attempt to step up as
a visionary prime minister with a with a with a
plan for growth. I hope it works because they are
in trouble. Labour needs to realize, though, that it's not
a pole that is in support of them. It's a
pole that's going not in support of national Trump.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I know you both want to talk about this for ever.
Donald Trump has sworn and as a US president on
Tuesday and has signed a raft of executive orders. Okay,
Josie Bagari, what are you thinking? You know so much?
You both know so much about American politics.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Yeah, but this is a whole new phase, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
I mean, how often have you seen a new president
of the United States of America turn up to his
inauguration with a big fat sharpie pen and sign you know,
hundreds of executive orders. I mean it's kind of like
watching something out of the Rocky Horror Show, isn't it?
Where you can't look away. Someone once described his rallies
as pro wrestling in hell. You know, they're great fun.
(24:57):
They look great fun. But you can see why people
enjoy them. But man's who knows where it's going to
go next. And then you've got all these tech bros.
This is the new thing this election, you know, Elon
Musk and Mark Elon Musk channeling some kind of top
gear meets Goldfinger vibe. I mean, looking and behaving very oddly.
Mark Zuckerberg, who used to look like a sort of
(25:19):
dead eyed serial killer with his you know, Julius Caesar haircut,
now looks like some kind of you've got a perme.
He looks like some kind of rapper with gold chains
and baggy T shirts. I mean, what the hell, what
are these guys doing. They're sucking up, that's what they're doing.
So it's feeling a little bit like a monarchy, isn't it.
He's behaving like a king, you know, even parading the dynasty,
(25:41):
the dynasty all the time. The family are there in every.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Shot, and they're also uncomfortable, none of them apart from
one son who thinks he's you know, the oldest son.
He thinks he's part of the show. Yeah, everyone else
think it feels like and the hair.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
And it's all very eighties.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
It all feels very so it's fascinating to watch. But
the things that stood out to me this week is
the you know, I'm shocked, and Biden unfortunately doesn't have
a leg to stand on on this. The pardons, the
pardons of the January sixth conspirators, that the people who
violently attacked the police at the capitol. It seems extraordinary
(26:19):
to me that they would just do a blanket pardon
of everybody, even the people who attacked the police. I
mean even you know, even the joker is less pro
crime than that.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
You know, it's like, what the heck, what have you
made of it?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Nick, Well, we're in uncharted territory, aren't we. This is
a person that lost the presidency. We thought after January
the twentieth that he would be twenty one, that he
would be gone from the political map. He's back elected democratically.
He won more votes than Kamala Harris. Not the aberration
(26:58):
actually that people have tried to make it out. Yeah,
the culture war stuff was a subplot, but actually, like
just we were talking before the economy, Americans felt poorer
and actually I've had to sort of you know, it
happened quite quickly. Come to grips with the fact that
Trump's back and Americans a lot of them are very
(27:20):
desperate and voted for him, and good people vote for Trump.
And actually Trump won't be all bad. I say that
to someone who is not a Trump fan. But there
will be some reasonable stuff that come out of it.
I'm worried, though, obviously about the bad stuff. You think
about tariffs, You think about how that could wreck the economy,
the division. You know, one of those January six people
(27:41):
who have come out of jail has already been rearrested
for some sort of crime. I read, you know, like,
we're not talking about good but it's the assault on
democracy that to me was the big concern. And what
happens at the end of this four years because he
will want to run again if he can.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
He can't, but he right very quickly before we go
to Hotson, Lot's take a break and go to Hotson Knots.
I came out and said throw away line during the
show that I get really brassed off going through Mount
Victoria Tunnel and people toot their horns and the place
when nuts the text machine blew up had to put
a new computer and people were so anti me. Come on,
(28:21):
tell me both with you. Because I'm now studying the
old bugger, I'm starting to characterize people on whether they
toot or not.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Tutor, and the reason I'm a tutor is that it
backs me. I get this bolt of joy. It's like,
oh look, we're all united in this little kind of
secret joke that Wellingtonians have that we toot in the tunnel.
And then you get little patterns where you toot a little,
you know, and then something. It's wonderful. It's a joyful thing.
That's shame on you.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Nick.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Tell me I don't tooot when I'm by myself, but
I do come under pressure from my wife and children
to toot. The problem is the kids. They want toot
in the Terrorace Tunnel and all the North and all
the Corry Tunnel. But uh look and remember you know, like,
was we toot for Phyllis Simon's, of course, was murdered
by her much older lover back in about nineteen thirty one.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
That's how did you know that? You didn't know?
Speaker 5 (29:13):
That is how it started?
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Did you not know that, Josie, I did not know that.
I didn't know that pre Tuesday either, but I found
out on Tuesday.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
And she was she was she was buried alive.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Very tragic.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Oh, pregnant and pregnant. Stop it head overhead with the pole.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Your lover was but was was was on the job
and he was working to build the tunnel and then
and that's an awful story. But we that's why we
toot the memory of her.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Well that I'm choosing even more.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Now now, Yeah, take a short break in mine. Not
hot as people that in the tunnel. I'll do it
already the Friday face.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Hot than.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Joseph Beganni neck leged you who wants to start with
their hots and knots? You both look about it as
excited as well. My mother in law twenty years ago.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
Good lord, when you got married. Yeah, he cried and cried.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Well, my hot actually is we had this amazing blue
phosphorescence or plankton or something up in coppody at Parapraam Beach.
If anyone in the whole of company turned up in
their cars loved it. It was wonderful. It looked beautiful.
It's it was amazing. We just if you walked on
the sand, it was like being an Avatar just blue
(30:28):
blue Blue at the footprints min not hot Neck. And
this is a bit of a plea. Really, these are
hard times right for business. They're limen hard for charities.
And I run a charity called ChildFund and we're working
with kids in the Pacific who are dying in some
cases from not having clean water, and we are really
struggling for money because people are hard up. I get it,
(30:51):
they're really hard up. And you think, well, you know,
we're going to look after kids in New Zealand, but
the Pacific is our shared home. It's the region that
we call home to. We have kids in the Pacific
who are stunted because they're not getting the right food
and they're dying of not getting clean water. So anyone
wants to help us out, my god, we need that.
All the help we can get ChildFund dot dot New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Okay, good luck with that, and I'll put that on
our Facebook page as well to let people know. Thanks
Nick Leggett, you're hot not.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
By hot as well. Full disclosure our chair Wellington Water.
You've talked to me. You know, Wellington Water's had some
tough times and actually there's some good news and that
is that the we've reduced the leak backlog. Wellington loses
forty percent of its water leaks, but those leaks, those
reactive leaks. The councils gave us a lot more money
a year ago and we've cut that back by about
(31:40):
seventy five percent repaired.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
And that's the pipes that are leaking, the pipes.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
It's the water pipes. Now it's not the full We
need to replace the pipes, but that will come with
water reform and they'll be hopefully more money to do
that with a new water entity that will replace Wellington Water.
But you know, we've replaced our We've fixed thousands of
leaks last year and Wellington hasn't had the threat of
a water shortage this summer. So I think that's a
(32:05):
that's a good used for the region. People have been
great as well and conserving the water, watching what they use.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It has rained every bloody day, well I mean we.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Have been helped by that. But also actually even if
it hadn't rained as much, we still would have been okay.
Because we've we've reduced what we use.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
It does feel like it's getting better.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah, that's it, and I don't actually have it not
this week.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
I'm just going to be You're Wellington Vitality.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
What is it called Wellington Alive?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah, well that's it.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I'm being positive about well.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Can I ask you a serious question? Are you going
to run for mayor of Wellington?
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Can I give you a serious answer? Not on your life?
Speaker 5 (32:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (32:47):
Unless no no steps forward.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
I need to step.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
In to try. Gave up people text me all the
time next time you're talking. Can ask you I said,
I've asked him. I'm blue in the face. He's not
going to do it unless they you know, stunning star
playing a lot of money. Thank you both very much.
It was great to have you both on our first
show of the year. Let's have many more of them
during the year. Good luck and enjoy the rest of
(33:14):
the summer and we'll talk soon into you.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Have a good weekend.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I'll do my very best.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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